Guest guest Posted December 10, 2003 Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 , if it took 2 weeks for the teacher to move the other child once you told her Elias was anxious because he was being kicked, then the teacher is the problem. Could it be that the class is too large? Or is she just not a very good teacher? She should be looking out for this kind of thing. When this happened to , the other kid was moved NEXT DAY. Again, I say that an aide would really be a help here. / 4makelas@... Way, Way Up in Northern Ontario ----- Original Message ----- From: " L. " <order@...> He was getting really anxious about going to school until he finally told me that some kid was kicking him under the table all the time so that the teacher wouldn't see. It took her 2 weeks to move the child to another table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2003 Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 > I say that an aide would really be a help here. > Hi , I agree. Failing that, can you just go hang out in the classroom as much as possible? I know that's not convenient for you, but it would certainly give you a very good understanding of what's going on. (I have a vague recollection that your school district doesn't permit this.) Does your district have any kind of inclusion specialist or autism expert that you could try to get called in? It sounds like your son's teacher needs more training in how to teach an AS child. Or is there another teacher who is better qualified? Is there any specific reason that the kids in his class are picking on him? (Not that he deserves it in any case.) Start taking Polaroids of the marks other kids are leaving on him and dating them. Can he tell you if just one or two kids are doing it? P.S. I am homeschooling my 1st grade HFA daughter. She wasn't a behavior problem in the kindergarten classroom (where she had an aide); she saved her massive tantrums until just after we got home. At least your school district sees the problems even if they don't know what to do about them. I don't think the public school was good for her emotional health. (The only times she ever had these terrible tantrums were the 3.5 months she was in a public kindergarten.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2003 Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 I have the same sort of problems with Matt. Luckily he came home the other day and announced that his " arch nemisis " (lol)had moved away. The child to whom he was refering kept making fun of him because he has an aid. This was one issue with an aid that Iwas afraid of. Mathew is just starting to realize that he is different. He just wants to be one of the kids and can't be. He wants to go to class alone but can't handle it and always has to leave. He feels funny having someone in the room with him. It's really hard - he knows he's different and wants to fit in but he can't. I think I liked it better when he wasn't aware of it. We aren't sure how to handle it. A work in progress. Re: ( ) I give up. > I say that an aide would really be a help here. > Hi , I agree. Failing that, can you just go hang out in the classroom as much as possible? I know that's not convenient for you, but it would certainly give you a very good understanding of what's going on. (I have a vague recollection that your school district doesn't permit this.) Does your district have any kind of inclusion specialist or autism expert that you could try to get called in? It sounds like your son's teacher needs more training in how to teach an AS child. Or is there another teacher who is better qualified? Is there any specific reason that the kids in his class are picking on him? (Not that he deserves it in any case.) Start taking Polaroids of the marks other kids are leaving on him and dating them. Can he tell you if just one or two kids are doing it? P.S. I am homeschooling my 1st grade HFA daughter. She wasn't a behavior problem in the kindergarten classroom (where she had an aide); she saved her massive tantrums until just after we got home. At least your school district sees the problems even if they don't know what to do about them. I don't think the public school was good for her emotional health. (The only times she ever had these terrible tantrums were the 3.5 months she was in a public kindergarten.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2003 Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 , I think it's good that you went back and reread my post. No problem with you responding twice! We are all trying to help in our own way, and I hope that something I've written will prove useful. You sound extremely frustrated. I get what you mean about Elias not understanding consequences. What a typical AS comeback. Reminds me of when he's forgotten to do something. I say, " Did you do that? " and his response is, " I'll do it now. " He doesn't get it that it was supposed to be done already and he figures (at age 15) that if he does it right now it will be OK. So far as the incidents where Elias says another child hit him first: had a really difficult time telling a story without adding things in. Finally we resorted to really concrete questions like " Whose mouth did those words come out of? " and " Whose hand touched that book? " and " Describe the boy who called you that name. What does he look like, where does he sit, what does he eat for lunch, how can you tell him apart from the other kids, etc " . He did understand that it was important that he exactly answer the questions, and since they were phrased in a way that he couldn't possibly misinterpret (I hope) he was able to successfully give us the correct information. While he enjoys embellishing a story, he is not likely to totally make something up. I would believe Elias when he tells you that he is being touched in some way and that it is provoking him. At his young age it is difficult for him not to respond to being hit, especially as it will affect him much more than an " ordinary " child in a sensory way. You need to get more details from him if possible in order to relay this information to the school. If it's the kid that sits to his right at circle time, then you can say that to the teacher. BTW, we once set up all the chairs in the house to represent the seats on a school bus in order to identify which child gave something that the teacher later confiscated ... You may have to have the household sit in a circle so that Elias can point out where the perpetrator would be sitting if circle time is a problem ... drawing pictures isn't anywhere near as useful. Or set up chairs as desks. As a matter of fact, we talked today because there was an incident of violence in his school today (several of them actually, with the same perpetrator) and a boy will be suspended or expelled and the other boy's parents may call the police and if so the witnesses may be questioned by the police. I was careful to explain to that it was important that he say only what he actually saw happening, not what he thought might have happened. It only happens if you see or hear it (experience it) yourself. I don't know about the laws where you are, but there is a process here where if you aren't happy with your child's placement, you can request a review, and there is a time limit for this to take place. You must request in writing to the principal. Here it's called the Identification, Placement and Review Committee. They also have an ARD committee that is made up of the psychologists and so on that meets once or twice a year to approve placement changes. The wheels of bureaucracy do move slowly ... / 4makelas@... Way, Way Up in Northern Ontario ----- Original Message ----- From: " L. " <order@...> Sorry to respond twice, I went back and saw points I'd missed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2003 Report Share Posted December 15, 2003 LInda wrote: > >> , I don't want to disagree with you, but the main point is that they > can't have a child at school striking out physically and hurting the other > kids. There is zero tolerance here for that as there is in most other > educational systems.<< > , Elias is FIVE YEARS OLD!!! Honest to goodness, that 'zero tolerance' stuff is like killing a flea with a sledgehammer sometimes. The basic problem here is that the teacher has not reached out in a loving way to Elias. This teacher has it in for this student. I have seen this behavior over and over with teachers of my Aspie son. said: " > The point is that I suspect he's usually being provoked and hurt by the other kids FIRST, because I have NEVER seen him lash out at anyone without any provocation whatsoever, but they aren't doing anything about it no matter how many letters I fax, and yes, I'm calling them every day. He was getting really anxious about going to school until he finally told me that some kid was kicking him under the table all the time so that the teacher wouldn't see.... " Neuro-typical children who bully others know innately when to provoke (only when the teacher's back is turned or she's out of earshot). Somehow it's just so much fun for them to pick on the vulnerable socially awkward child. The Aspie kid takes a lot of verbal and physical abuse before he lashes back. In 3rd grade, C. was mercilessly abused daily by a pack of girls. They called names, poked, bumped, kicked and humiliated him in every way. They stole his lunch and hid it (he didn't tell me any of this). They took his backpack and filled it with dirt and sand. (and I was yelling at him for it being so dirty). Then one day I found a paper on which he had written a plan to " blow up " the girls. If the teacher had found it, he would have been kicked out of school, no questions asked. The whole sad scenario came out when I questioned him. Here's what I did: I went and spied on the playground at recess and during lunch. I showed up to volunteer in art class. I wrote down every instance of bullying and aggression I saw, and not only towards my son (took every bit of my strength not to intervene immediately). I took my documentation to the principal and told them that the school was fostering an abusive environment and if they didn't fix it I would sue them for child endangerment. It was only then that they took it seriously. Sorry to jump in so late here -- and you may have already decided what to do with Elias re: school -- but this is clearly a teacher problem (the teacher sets the tone). You know well that homeschooling sometimes increases the social isolation, not to mention that as a single parent you never get a break. Maybe you could tap into AS resources in your area, maybe you could discreetly talk to other kindergarten teachers at Elias' school with the view of switching him to a nicer, more loving environment. So many times that's all it is -- my son flourishes in classrooms where the teacher is just a nice person (she doesn't have to be a genius, she just has to appreciate his and other kids' 'genius'). said: " The teacher has outright told me and him that she doesn't believe " half " the things he tells her (and the problem is that it's compounded by the fact that sometimes he DOES make up stories, " Honestly, this teacher sounds lousy. Everyone who has any exposure to kids knows that some kids make up wild stories! It's not a bad thing! It's creative! The teacher should say (when it's clearly a fib) " Wow, that's an AMAZING story! You should write it down. " , I am so with you. I have walked in your shoes. You don't believe it now, but someday you will thumb your nose at all those stupid people at school. Elias will be a great credit to you and only you. Just keep focussing on his strengths. You are a great mom to him. Happy Holidays, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2003 Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 In a message dated 12/16/2003 11:27:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, order@... writes: - He now speaks at the level of a child several years older, so obviously this is the most ridiculous thing in the world to give a 5yo with a 9yo's vocabulary and no speech problems an hour of speech therapy per week. is also very bright and his vocabulary score was perfect, in other words he did the whole test perfectly. It only went to third grade. He receives ST twice a week. He has low tone so he does have some physical speech problems but he also has problems with pragmatic language. He is unable to describe things, he has difficulty carrying on a conversation start to finish, etc. The ST is very helpful in those areas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2003 Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 >>It is so hard sometimes getting the schools to do what is right. Maybe you could hold an emergency IEP meeting and discuss getting a behavioral plan and the class set up for him so he isn't haven't tantrums as much. << We had an emergency IEP meeting last week, but they didn't want to discuss a behavioral plan until the school psychologist finished her battery of tests. She had finished all but one, and that one was 3/8 done, and then we had to wait until she wrote a report and everyone had read it. This woman has taken *six weeks* to do the tests so far. Who knows how much longer she'd take to do this much? They refused to do any behavioral management or prescribe any changes in the classroom until it's done. And what's worse, they prescribed more speech therapy for him because it was in his old IEP from three years ago (the other public preschool here didn't keep a record of the one they did for him last year!!) even though I pointed out that the IEP was done before he was talking - he now speaks at the level of a child several years older, so obviously this is the most ridiculous thing in the world to give a 5yo with a 9yo's vocabulary and no speech problems an hour of speech therapy per week. So last Sunday Elias announced he decided he wanted to homeschool after all, but we're giving him a break over the holidays and starting homeschooling mid-January again so that he can de-stress from school. Thanks for everyone's input and support. =) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2003 Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 , Ahh, I can definitely see why it would be helpful in those situations, although it honestly hadn't occurred to me, so I was basically speaking out of ignorance. :/ But honestly my son CAN describe things (in minute detail) and CAN carry on a pretty good conversation. I mean, he may zone out if it's a conversation about something he's not interested in, but... trust me, the speech therapy thing in my son's case would be a complete waste of time. I didn't mean to imply that everyone going to a ST has something " wrong " with the way they talk or anything like that though!!! Re: ( ) I give up. In a message dated 12/16/2003 11:27:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, order@... writes: - He now speaks at the level of a child several years older, so obviously this is the most ridiculous thing in the world to give a 5yo with a 9yo's vocabulary and no speech problems an hour of speech therapy per week. is also very bright and his vocabulary score was perfect, in other words he did the whole test perfectly. It only went to third grade. He receives ST twice a week. He has low tone so he does have some physical speech problems but he also has problems with pragmatic language. He is unable to describe things, he has difficulty carrying on a conversation start to finish, etc. The ST is very helpful in those areas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 Mercuria <mercuria@...> wrote: > > I've been sick for 22 years now. > But I think I'm on the wrong list. Whatever I have, it's not ME. At least, that's what I keep hearing from you people. > > It can't be ME because I actually experienced stress before I got sick. And since it's un-PC to say that this is in any way related to stress, I clearly don't belong here. > > It can't be ME because I have excellent reason to suspect the presence of a genetic component -- damn near irrefutable in my case, in fact. And since it's un-PC to say this is in any way a matter of " bad genes, " I clearly don't belong here. > > It can't be ME because I insist on using that name, instead of accepting the martyrdom that comes with the ridiculous one cooked up by the CDC. And since it's un-PC to foreswear a stupid name that means nothing in favor of a clear diagnosis that does, I clearly don't belong here. > > Apparently, it can't even be ME even when the guy who wrote the best CFS/ME definition in the world examined me yesterday and told me, no question, that what I have is DEFINITELY ME. > > So you can all go squabble among yourselves about the politically > correct definition of whatever it is you have. The infighting so > much more important than silly facts and science anyway. Or the > opinion of any doctor, for that matter. > > There is not enough energy in me to allow this list to sap any more of it. I have better things to do -- a degree to finish, a new (and very hot) blogging gig, friends and family and a life. I wish the same to any of you who are willing to stop the petty bickering and go out and get it for yourselves. > Goodbye. >> Sara Did anyone in this group ever say that the illness was NOT ME? I thought it was rather the opposite, that ME is exactly as Ramsay described, and that Canadian Guidelines ME/CFS (Original CFS) is ALSO ME. And as far as I know, while stress is not good in any illness, there is no amount of stress, however severe, in recorded history that consistently or even sporadically resulted in either ME or CFS. Certainly not in a reproducible fashion. I believe that we are just asking that people refrain from implicating stress as causative, or as anything more than an exacerbating factor, so that psychologizers and their therapies can be dismissed from serious consideration and application. Does anyone believe that if Wessely had been present during your decline and prior to onset of clinical severity, and whisked you into a clinic for pre-emptive counseling and antidepressant therapy- that your illness would have been successfully circumvented? If one has an ME diagnosis, one should certainly use it. But if someone with a CFS diagnosis has the same illness, would it be fair to tell them that they are suffering from nothing more than fatigue, no matter what Dr Cheney, , the Canadian Guidelines and a mountain of research and evidence says? Certainly CFS is a degrading name, but the history of this illness cannot be erased by adopting the stance that a serious and disabling illness was really nothing more than: " CFS? Oh yes, I get tired too, sometimes " . Because that isn't how CFS happened. And is why, if you fulfil the requirements of the Canadian Consensus Criteria - your case of CFS can be called ME as a matter of scientific fact, as verified by the authors of the Canadian Guidelines, who refuse to accept that their presentation of CFS was invalid and inaccurate. - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 Dear Sara, I would think that STRESS is one of many precipItating factors, which would be relevant to many physiological diseases..but I wonder why you STRESS it... although certainly a factor in CANCER, HEART DISEASE, etc., one does not hear such a FOCUS on it... It has been utlizied as a way to DISMISS our diseases as PSYCHOLOGICAL, and thus, to prevent exploration into all the physiological factors involved, despite worldwide science that proves it is not psychological. It is OK to take into account that it may be ONE FACTOR, and to find ways to lower stress, however, I do not think that it is the prime cause. This is hoping you will be able to lower YOUR STRESS. Amelia Mercuria <mercuria@...> wrote: > > I've been sick for 22 years now. > But I think I'm on the wrong list. Whatever I have, it's not ME. At least, that's what I keep hearing from you people. > > It can't be ME because I actually experienced stress before I got sick. And since it's un-PC to say that this is in any way related to stress, I clearly don't belong here. > > It can't be ME because I have excellent reason to suspect the presence of a genetic component -- damn near irrefutable in my case, in fact. And since it's un-PC to say this is in any way a matter of " bad genes, " I clearly don't belong here. > > It can't be ME because I insist on using that name, instead of accepting the martyrdom that comes with the ridiculous one cooked up by the CDC. And since it's un-PC to foreswear a stupid name that means nothing in favor of a clear diagnosis that does, I clearly don't belong here. > > Apparently, it can't even be ME even when the guy who wrote the best CFS/ME definition in the world examined me yesterday and told me, no question, that what I have is DEFINITELY ME. > > So you can all go squabble among yourselves about the politically > correct definition of whatever it is you have. The infighting so > much more important than silly facts and science anyway. Or the > opinion of any doctor, for that matter. > > There is not enough energy in me to allow this list to sap any more of it. I have better things to do -- a degree to finish, a new (and very hot) blogging gig, friends and family and a life. I wish the same to any of you who are willing to stop the petty bickering and go out and get it for yourselves. > Goodbye. >> Sara Did anyone in this group ever say that the illness was NOT ME? I thought it was rather the opposite, that ME is exactly as Ramsay described, and that Canadian Guidelines ME/CFS (Original CFS) is ALSO ME. And as far as I know, while stress is not good in any illness, there is no amount of stress, however severe, in recorded history that consistently or even sporadically resulted in either ME or CFS. Certainly not in a reproducible fashion. I believe that we are just asking that people refrain from implicating stress as causative, or as anything more than an exacerbating factor, so that psychologizers and their therapies can be dismissed from serious consideration and application. Does anyone believe that if Wessely had been present during your decline and prior to onset of clinical severity, and whisked you into a clinic for pre-emptive counseling and antidepressant therapy- that your illness would have been successfully circumvented? If one has an ME diagnosis, one should certainly use it. But if someone with a CFS diagnosis has the same illness, would it be fair to tell them that they are suffering from nothing more than fatigue, no matter what Dr Cheney, , the Canadian Guidelines and a mountain of research and evidence says? Certainly CFS is a degrading name, but the history of this illness cannot be erased by adopting the stance that a serious and disabling illness was really nothing more than: " CFS? Oh yes, I get tired too, sometimes " . Because that isn't how CFS happened. And is why, if you fulfil the requirements of the Canadian Consensus Criteria - your case of CFS can be called ME as a matter of scientific fact, as verified by the authors of the Canadian Guidelines, who refuse to accept that their presentation of CFS was invalid and inaccurate. - __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 Hi, Sara. Don't leave. Please stay on this list as you have so much to contribute towards its purpose. The debates you describe and feel stressed by are generally off topic on this list as per this lists rules. They really belong to sites dedicated to the political discourse surrounding ME/CFS, not here where they are irrelevant. What's relevant here is NOT definitions or names, right or wrong nor who the bad guys are, but treatment. You are perfectly within you rights here to ignore such posts, remind the poster succinctly that they are off topic or report their actions to the list moderators to deal the problem if you care not to deal with the offenders. Respectfully sticking to only those posts and posters interested in treatment for effectively conquering ME/CFS is doing exactly what this list is for. I think doing this could effectively resolve what is spurning you to leave. <mercuria@...> wrote: > > I've been sick for 22 years now. > > But I think I'm on the wrong list. Whatever I have, it's not ME. At > least, that's what I keep hearing from you people. > > It can't be ME because I actually experienced stress before I got > sick. And since it's un-PC to say that this is in any way related to > stress, I clearly don't belong here. > > It can't be ME because I have excellent reason to suspect the > presence of a genetic component -- damn near irrefutable in my case, > in fact. And since it's un-PC to say this is in any way a matter of > " bad genes, " I clearly don't belong here. > > It can't be ME because I insist on using that name, instead of > accepting the martyrdom that comes with the ridiculous one cooked up > by the CDC. And since it's un-PC to foreswear a stupid name that > means nothing in favor of a clear diagnosis that does, I clearly > don't belong here. > > Apparently, it can't even be ME even when the guy who wrote the best > CFS/ME definition in the world examined me yesterday and told me, no > question, that what I have is DEFINITELY ME. > > So you can all go squabble among yourselves about the politically > correct definition of whatever it is you have. The infighting so > much more important than silly facts and science anyway. Or the > opinion of any doctor, for that matter. > > There is not enough energy in me to allow this list to sap any more > of it. I have better things to do -- a degree to finish, a new (and > very hot) blogging gig, friends and family and a life. I wish the > same to any of you who are willing to stop the petty bickering and go > out and get it for yourselves. > > Goodbye. > > Sara > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 " davidhall2020 " wrote: > What's relevant here is NOT definitions or names, right or wrong nor who the bad guys are, but treatment. > In order for people to share treatment ideas for " CFS " , shouldn't they have some basic agreement on what " CFS " is? If one says CFS and is thinking ME/CFS and another is referring to some kind of fatigue condition that is nothing like ME, how can they swap treatment ideas in a meaningful way? When someone says " I cured my CFS by reducing stress and taking Vitamins " , I can't help but be a little suspicious that their " CFS treatment " isn't going to work for me. Am I correct in assuming that you are going along with the CG by using ME/CFS, which is making a statement about the relevance of which definition you are using? - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 Hi, . " erikmoldwarrior " <erikmoldwarrior@...> wrote: > > " davidhall2020 " wrote: > > What's relevant here is NOT definitions or names, right or wrong > nor who the bad guys are, but treatment. > > > > > In order for people to share treatment ideas for " CFS " , shouldn't > they have some basic agreement on what " CFS " is? ***Not necessarily and the politics of it makes coming to any basic agreement almost impossible at this time. It's certainly a mess that won't get resolved on this treatment list and does go off its purpose. Nevertheless, most posters seem to eventually figure out if this list is for their CFS, ME/CFS or whatever they or their docs have diagnosed them with. > If one says CFS and is thinking ME/CFS and another is referring to > some kind of fatigue condition that is nothing like ME, how can > they swap treatment ideas in a meaningful way? ***It comes out in the mix eventually through several posts. I've seen a few who realized after a few weeks or so that they were dealing with a different animal altogether though the symptom of chronic fatigue was indeed a symptom they had leading them to this list. It ain't efficient and the CFS label is tragic, but it's the way it is and this list is literally not dedicated to resolving this political issue. When someone says " I cured my CFS by reducing stress and taking > Vitamins " , I can't help but be a little suspicious that their " CFS > treatment " isn't going to work for me. ***Technically, your CFS was created by stress, but I know what you're talking about as the word stress has become one errantly associated exclusively to psychological responses rather than upstream matters(stressors) of much greater relevance to etiology. Wading through the morass and specifics of anyone's diagnosis who makes this claim is about the only way to resolve this valid type of suspicion. > > Am I correct in assuming that you are going along with the CG by > using ME/CFS, which is making a statement about the relevance of > which definition you are using? ***I consistently vary the terms I use from ME/CFS to CFS to PWC so as not to get too overly entangled on the topic and stick to the point of treatment on this list. I do have an opinion and would like to see the CF label go and definitions get tighter and more homogenous, but again, that conversation never goes anywhere productive on this list and it is political, ie, off topic here. *** > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.