RE: OT: Mental illness, intelligence, and developmental delay

[Guest guest]

Thanks Michele! I was aware of the rapid head growth issue in the

kids (my daughter's head went from 35%ile to above 97%ile pretty

quickly), but I hadn't heard about large head size of one of the

parents or a link to a family's history of mental illness having to

do with the child's condition.

Thanks for the article, though!

Dawn

> Hi Dawn,

> Here is an article about rapid infant head-growth (ie " big heads " )

and autism:

http://www.thebakersfieldchannel.com/health/2334372/detail.html

>

>

> Michele in California

>

> calif.michele@s...

> webmaster@c...

>

>

> Visit Michele's World! of (Twice) Exceptional Homeschooling

> http://www.califmichele.com

>

> It is not so very important for a person to learn facts. For that

he does not really need a college. He can learn them from books. The

value of an education in a liberal arts college is not learning of

many facts but the training of the mind to think something that

cannot be learned from textbooks.

> -Albert Einstein

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Dawn,

You are welcome for the article. I don't have a good " sequeway " here to my next

comments. I gave you the article rather than giving you the link to my website

because my views are very controversial and I go down in flames for opening my

mouth on this very topic on another list. I really don't like conflict and I

sure as hell don't like being ganged up on by a big group of folks who are

outraged that my views are dissimilar from theirs. But, the fact is, the most

popular page on my homeschooling website is called " Asperger's Syndrome: A

working hypothesis " . I talk there -- and in supporting pages linked there --

about high intelligence, personality type, and other stuff.

http://califmichele.com/aspie.html

HTH and I also hope that it doesn't embroil me in some public barbecue with me

as the main course. Sigh.

Happy Easter.

Michele in California

calif.michele@...

webmaster@...

Visit Michele's World! of (Twice) Exceptional Homeschooling

http://www.califmichele.com

It is not so very important for a person to learn facts. For that he does not

really need a college. He can learn them from books. The value of an education

in a liberal arts college is not learning of many facts but the training of the

mind to think something that cannot be learned from textbooks.

-Albert Einstein

[Guest guest]

Dawn,

I have that POTS. My husband fits that big head/high intelligence profile.

My mother wasn't manic depressive, but severely depressed.

Interesting. How are they treating your POTS?

Sharon

-- [ ] OT: Mental illness, intelligence, and

developmental delay

My 19-month old daughter has suspected apraxia and my best friend's

3 year son is autistic. I was talking to her the other day about

the similarities in our families.

[Guest guest]

I have not heard this exact scenario. I have heard increased

intelligence and manic

depression, but not necessarily which parent's side would have either or

both, and

I have heard the larger head size, too, but I have also heard of smaller

than normal

heads in children with autism. In our case, my AS daughter's is smaller

than normal,

and there is some manic depression on my side of the family, though not

my mom,

but my husband's family would not be considered overly bright. My

husband was

the only one who went to college; the only one that could've even gotten

into college

because of grades, so we only fit the profile in one category---manic

depression.

[ ] OT: Mental illness, intelligence, and

developmental delay

My 19-month old daughter has suspected apraxia and my best friend's

3 year son is autistic. I was talking to her the other day about

the similarities in our families.

Both of our mothers are/were severely, almost cripplingly manic-

depressive (her mother to an even more severe degree than mine).

Both of us have the same, rare health problem having to do with

symptomatic low blood pressure (roughly, postural orthostatic

tachycardia syndrome, or POTS). And both of us have only children

with (what I consider anyway) a sort-of similar or related

developmental delay.

She told me that the geneticist that she saw said that the one

pattern he has seen in parents of autistic children is a history of

mental illness on the mother's side of the family and a large head

(I'm not making this up!)/very high intelligence of the father.

(Both our husbands are quite bright, but then again, so are we).

I've been researching apraxia and autism for about a year now.

While I basically believe that many regressive autistic and apraxic

children suffer from biomedical imbalances and toxicities, I also

believe that those imbalances and toxicities are in part due a a

genetic component (with an environmental trigger). However,

maternal side mental illness and paternal intelligence seems like an

odd trend -- although, I do realize that Andy alluded to the

intelligence factor recently.

Has anyone else been told this? I'm just curious as to what info is

out there.

Dawn

> I don't have any relatives with Autism and I have a large family.

There was mental illness like Manic depression and retardation but

we know today those are completely different things. ]

=======================================================

[Guest guest]

> my views are very controversial and I go down in flames for opening my mouth

on this very topic on another list.

Gee, sounds like what happens when anyone talks about inconvenient

realities, e. g. pediatricians make their living poisoning children

into autism, ADHD and learning disabilities.

> folks who are outraged that my views are dissimilar from theirs.

Kinda like mainstream MD's and their take on anything that actually

works.

> But, the fact is, the most popular page on my homeschooling website is called

" Asperger's Syndrome: A working hypothesis " .

My working hypothesis: arsenic. Parents with less impaired kids

(Aperger's vs. autistic, ADHD vs. either) are a lot less likely to seek

alternative care, but the ones I have seen hair tests on usually had a

lot more arsenic than you'd expect, and had some other well known and

obscure signs of arsenic toxicity.

Treated wood was usually the culprit. Occasionally ant stakes,

sometimes no clear source.

Andy . . .. . . .

[Guest guest]

>

> My working hypothesis: arsenic. Parents with less impaired kids

> (Aperger's vs. autistic, ADHD vs. either) are a lot less likely to seek

> alternative care, but the ones I have seen hair tests on usually had a

> lot more arsenic than you'd expect, and had some other well known and

> obscure signs of arsenic toxicity.

>

My son's hair test had arsenic in the red and his dx is Asperger's.

His test didn't meet the counting rules but chelation is heading him

towards recovery. I'm wondering, can arsenic be passed from the mother

through the placents like mercury can?

Nell

[Guest guest]

Hi Andy,

You may not care, but since someone did ask (in part) about the connection

between high intelligence and autism, allow me to clarify:

My background is with " talented and gifted " (TAG) forums. When my oldest, most

" aspie " child was 11, he tested at the senior-in-college level for science on a

test that I later found only went that high. We will never know where he really

stands but I have good reason to believe that his IQ is over 200, perhaps well

over 200. And the comments on my website grew out of e-mails that began, in

part, with folks on TAG lists asking what the difference is between Asperger's

Syndrome and 'normal gifted' issues. The extreme talkativeness, tendency to

obsess with a particular subject, and sensory issues that you find in Aspies are

also traits commonly found in the gifted community. So, people who are new to

TAG lists sometimes hear folks with Aspie kids talk about those traits, take a

look at their own gifted kids and begin to freak out. Additionally, one study

found that all the kids in that particular study whose IQ's were over 200

qualified for (or perhaps had) a diagnosis of

Asperger's. Anecdotally, Asperger's is a rather common diagnosis for

homeschooled kids on TAG lists.

Part of my hypothesis is that the rapid head growth that is now being documented

in some of these kids may mean that their big brains predispose them to a high

IQ but also, unfortunately, predispose them to malnourished brains due to having

an unrecognized (and thus unaddressed) higher-than-normal nutritional need while

undergoing rapid brain growth and, also, I think it is part of why studies show

that some HFA kids can be made to appear " completely normal " with intensive,

early intervention: since mental development is the result of a combination of

brain development AND environmental stimuli, it seems logical to me that a

rapidly growing brain would need a very high degree of stimulation in order to

develop properly. This would not be too different from the fact that very

gifted kids who are bored in school typically have many behavior problems and

get in trouble a lot. (Maybe that doesn't make sense to you -- I don't know how

to say it better at the moment.)

As for the moms having mental or physical illness: anecdotally, I and some of

my friends who have come together to discuss our aspie-ish kids typically have

health problems and/or abusive childhoods etc. and we typically married men who

are not formally diagnosed but fit the profile for asperger's syndrome (and they

are generally pretty brilliant). I married such a man in part because I was an

emotional basket case and have spent much of my life intentionally seeking out

people who are less emotional, less reactionary, etc. The less emotional nature

of Aspies has its upside for someone who has experienced way too much

emotionally toxic behavior. Off the top of my head, I cannot remember all the

remarks a friend of mine made, but she said something like " women with health

problems find that such men are very loyal and reliable for certain practical

matters and you can count on them to not whig out in a crisis " . Perhaps another

part of the equation is that if the father has aspie

traits, a woman who has certain problems may be more tolerant of his social

shortcomings.

I know none of that is particularly scientific. Perhaps it will be good food

for thought for the original questioner.

Ducking for cover now. =8^D

Michele in California

calif.michele@...

webmaster@...

Visit Michele's World! of (Twice) Exceptional Homeschooling

http://www.califmichele.com

It is not so very important for a person to learn facts. For that he does not

really need a college. He can learn them from books. The value of an education

in a liberal arts college is not learning of many facts but the training of the

mind to think something that cannot be learned from textbooks.

-Albert Einstein

[Guest guest]

As the " original questioner, " I have to say (for me and my best

friend) DING, DING, DING -- Michele hit it squarely on the oversized

head with this paragraph!

Both of us, in addition to our related health problems, our mother's

mental illness, and our husband's almost ridiculous intelligence, we

both had very troubled, difficult, emotional childhoods -- the type

of childhoods that make most people I know drop their jaws, cringe,

and/or change the subject.

For me, I know part of what makes my marriage great is that my

husband is on an even-keel emotionally. He's pretty much always

fine, never really sad, never really super happy (unless Michigan is

winning). I'm pretty tired of all the emotion from my past and my

health is a see-saw, so he is a very good match for me, being so

smart, healthy, and without emotional swings.

Super-interesting observations, Michele. I think a lot of great

science starts with observations.

Dawn

> Hi Andy,

> You may not care, but since someone did ask (in part) about the

connection between high intelligence and autism, allow me to clarify:

> ...

> >

> As for the moms having mental or physical illness: anecdotally, I

and some of my friends who have come together to discuss our aspie-

ish kids typically have health problems and/or abusive childhoods

etc. and we typically married men who are not formally diagnosed

but fit the profile for asperger's syndrome (and they are generally

pretty brilliant). I married such a man in part because I was an

emotional basket case and have spent much of my life intentionally

seeking out people who are less emotional, less reactionary, etc.

The less emotional nature of Aspies has its upside for someone who

has experienced way too much emotionally toxic behavior. Off the

top of my head, I cannot remember all the remarks a friend of mine

made, but she said something like " women with health problems find

that such men are very loyal and reliable for certain practical

matters and you can count on them to not whig out in a crisis " .

Perhaps another part of the equation is that if the father has aspie

> traits, a woman who has certain problems may be more tolerant of

his social shortcomings.

>

> I know none of that is particularly scientific. Perhaps it will

be good food for thought for the original questioner.

>

> Ducking for cover now. =8^D

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Michele in California

>

> calif.michele@s...

> webmaster@c...

>

>

> Visit Michele's World! of (Twice) Exceptional Homeschooling

> http://www.califmichele.com

>

> It is not so very important for a person to learn facts. For that

he does not really need a college. He can learn them from books. The

value of an education in a liberal arts college is not learning of

many facts but the training of the mind to think something that

cannot be learned from textbooks.

> -Albert Einstein

>

>

[Guest guest]

My mother had mercury poisoning/depression.

S

<tt>

Dawn,

<BR>

I have that POTS. My husband fits that big head/high intelligence profile.<BR>

My mother wasn't manic depressive, but severely depressed.

<BR>

Interesting. How are they treating your POTS?

<BR>

Sharon

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

-- [ ] OT: Mental illness, intelligence, and<BR>

developmental delay

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

My 19-month old daughter has suspected apraxia and my best friend's

<BR>

3 year son is autistic.  I was talking to her the other day about

<BR>

the similarities in our families.  <BR>

<BR>