Re: SKIN WEIGHT - Lengthy

[Guest guest]

Okay guys -- we're now talking a matter of professional ethics as you will

see in my explanation below. It's NOT just a matter of skin weight

(which,yes, I wanted to know ... and yes, I paid for this surgery to have

this information as well ... and yes, my surgeon knew I wanted this

information).

I am VERY well grounded, and thankful for my health, but for those of you who

suggest that I move on (and I respect your opinions), here's the story.

For almost 4 weeks I've been TRYING to find out the weight of the skin I had

removed during my panniculectomy on 2/14. And now, from all appearances,

someone's not taking personal accountability for their mistake. Yes, to err

is human, but in the medical world, there is a higher standard.

To backup, I personally spoke to doctor first post-op visit, day 3 post-op

about the weight of my pannus. She didn't remember. Said it would be in

O.R. notes.

I waited to Day 6, 2nd post-op visit. Inquired with doctor, said she still

didn't have O.R. notes (nurses notes), so she couldn't say. Said she'd let

me know.

The next week, I called hospital and faxed them a records release for O.R.

surgeon's / nurses notes.

Received surgeons notes but NOT the O.R. nurses notes from the hospital. I

requested the O.R. nurses notes for 2-1/2 weeks. Never got them. Surgeon

requested O.R. nurses notes for 2-1/2 weeks, never got them. I finally

called hospital Risk Management on Monday afternoon to get things moving.

Boy, did they.

I read surgeons O.R. notes. There was NO MENTION of skin removal weight. In

the surgeons notes, where standard info line says " skin weight, " doctors

dictation says " see nurses notes. "

I QUOTE - DOCTORS SURGICAL REPORT SAYS:

" The abdominal skin and fat that was excised was weighed and was then

discarded (see nursing notes for the exact weight). "

This is in the doctor's surgical notes, and I have them. This was PROTOCOL

set by my surgeon.

Bottom line, O.R. Nurse did NOT follow doctor's orders. After speaking with

my surgeon's office and her nurse, the nurse reiterated surgeon's notes DID

REQUIRE the O.R. nurse to write down the weight and the surgeon knew (before

my surgery) that I wanted that information.

So, from her surgical notes above, the surgeon is in the clear and she DID

put this in her notes (before my inquiry, mind you) AND the surgeon put her

protocol to the nurses there to weight the specimin.

(The OR nurses WERE NOT the surgeon's nurses, but employees of the hospital.)

Now, the surgeons nurse agree's there's a BIG problem and that more than

likely, Hospital Risk Management will be involved. The nurse mentioned how

this is lawsuit potential (that the hospital didn't do their job), that the

surgeon set the protocol and the hospital surgical staff did NOT follow

through and do their job.

Now, I explained I'm not a litigious person, but dammit, this surgery was a

lot of money, and if the shoe were on the other foot, by God, that hospital

would be coming after ME with both barrells. Also, another point is that I

paid for a service (marked up 1000%) and didn't get it. Furthermore, this is

how MORE COSTLY life and death mistakes happen.

My surgeon's nurse (also a surgical nurse - but works strictly in the office)

also said that, as we spoke late yesterday, she had " just " received the O.R.

nurses " ADDENDUM " to the " nurses notes " of 3-1/2 weeks ago by FAX from the

hospital. That ADDENDUM was signed and DATED YESTERDAY and it stated that

the weight of the pannus (skin) was " 3 lbs. "

Again, that report or " addendum " by the nurse was DATED YESTERDAY. When the

hospital records supervisor called me yesterday, he said he had just " run the

OR nurse down " as she had not " completed " her report and, after 3-1/2 weeks,

asked her to 'remember' the weight of the pannus of my particular surgery.

Incredible. So, the OR nurse amazingly " remembers " my surgery, writes an

" ADDENDUM " to the official record (to include the weight of the pannus) that

she " remembers " is " 3 lbs. "

Liar. And this is where I'm pissed. She's covering her ass, and is now

insulting my intelligence by thinking she can now make an " addendum " to the

original surgery notes (where she had forgot to weigh and annotate the skin).

Furthermore, we are speaking of a coverup as damage control and, what's even

WORSE than simply admitting her mistake, is BREACHING PROFESSIONAL ETHICS!!!

This is where I'm drawing the line.

My surgeons nurse said this is TROUBLE with a capital " t. " Being an OR nurse

herself, she said this is unbelieveable, and she has never seen such an

addendum. An " addendum " from surgery 3-1/2 weeks ago and they expect US to

believe that the nurse actually remembed that exact amount and is NOW

reporting it????? Also, what really perked our attention was that the weight

was NOT 3.1245 lbs, or 3.275 kg or 3.44 lbs, BUT EXACTLY " 3 lbs. " Huummmm.

When my surgeons received the hospital OR nurses " addendum " late yesterday

evening (by fax), they immediately went into damage control, as did I.

Hospital Risk Management called today and left this message on my recorder.

I'd say they are CERTAINLY dodging a bullet.

Hi *****, this is *******, the Risk Manager at Alaska Regional Hospital. I’m

returning your phone call from yesterday afternoon. I’m sorry I couldn’t

get back with you sooner. I understand there was a problem, umm, with the,

uhh, the nurse not weighing, uhhh, the tissue, the specimin tissue, and I

talked to *********, ummm, he called me as well to let me know what happened

as well, so, I’m so disheartened and so sorry this has happened, ummm, and I

agree, We have some systems problems here and process problems with this

whole thing that we need to, uuuhhh, correct. So, please give me a call so I

can get more details from you. Ummm, I’m very interested in hearing about

the problem and, umm, will be in and out with meetings all day but you can,

you know, call me back ...

Another issue is, if the INSURANCE COMPANY ever wants to challenge me for any

reason (even though this was preauthorized, but just IF), i.e. cosmetic vs.

medically necessary, i.e. " x " amount of pounds pulling on back, etc., I have

NO DOCUMENTATION AS TO THE WEIGHT. The O.R. nurses " recollection " after

3-1/2 weeks is embarassing, to say the least.

Okay - that's the story. It's now come down to professional ethics. Say

what you will, but would YOU want to have future surgeries in a hospital

where staff knowingly are compromising records? I certainly would not, and

my insurance mandates using them as a preferred provider.

It is for others, as well as myself, that I am taking on this battle.

Bobbie

Anchorage

**********************************************************************

Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 22:36:13 -0000

Bobbi, unbundle thy undies! The chart at your surgeon's office has

his dictated notes in it...look THERE. It is a record of everything

that happened during your surgery. Your frustration is certainly

heard and felt, but it feels like time to focus on simething else

and move on...you have a LIFE! Get on with it! Love, Corrine

***********************************

Subject: Re: SKIN WEIGHT

Bobbie,

Each time I asked my surgeon how much he took off he said he would tell me

the next time he saw me - never happened.

I was going to be checked for a staple line disruption and requested my

surgical notes from the hospital. They enclosed both my bypass and PS notes

so I know know. 5lbs off the belly and about 2 1/2 off of each arm.

Marjie

[Guest guest]

Okay guys -- we're now talking a matter of professional ethics as you will

see in my explanation below. It's NOT just a matter of skin weight

(which,yes, I wanted to know ... and yes, I paid for this surgery to have

this information as well ... and yes, my surgeon knew I wanted this

information).

I am VERY well grounded, and thankful for my health, but for those of you who

suggest that I move on (and I respect your opinions), here's the story.

For almost 4 weeks I've been TRYING to find out the weight of the skin I had

removed during my panniculectomy on 2/14. And now, from all appearances,

someone's not taking personal accountability for their mistake. Yes, to err

is human, but in the medical world, there is a higher standard.

To backup, I personally spoke to doctor first post-op visit, day 3 post-op

about the weight of my pannus. She didn't remember. Said it would be in

O.R. notes.

I waited to Day 6, 2nd post-op visit. Inquired with doctor, said she still

didn't have O.R. notes (nurses notes), so she couldn't say. Said she'd let

me know.

The next week, I called hospital and faxed them a records release for O.R.

surgeon's / nurses notes.

Received surgeons notes but NOT the O.R. nurses notes from the hospital. I

requested the O.R. nurses notes for 2-1/2 weeks. Never got them. Surgeon

requested O.R. nurses notes for 2-1/2 weeks, never got them. I finally

called hospital Risk Management on Monday afternoon to get things moving.

Boy, did they.

I read surgeons O.R. notes. There was NO MENTION of skin removal weight. In

the surgeons notes, where standard info line says " skin weight, " doctors

dictation says " see nurses notes. "

I QUOTE - DOCTORS SURGICAL REPORT SAYS:

" The abdominal skin and fat that was excised was weighed and was then

discarded (see nursing notes for the exact weight). "

This is in the doctor's surgical notes, and I have them. This was PROTOCOL

set by my surgeon.

Bottom line, O.R. Nurse did NOT follow doctor's orders. After speaking with

my surgeon's office and her nurse, the nurse reiterated surgeon's notes DID

REQUIRE the O.R. nurse to write down the weight and the surgeon knew (before

my surgery) that I wanted that information.

So, from her surgical notes above, the surgeon is in the clear and she DID

put this in her notes (before my inquiry, mind you) AND the surgeon put her

protocol to the nurses there to weight the specimin.

(The OR nurses WERE NOT the surgeon's nurses, but employees of the hospital.)

Now, the surgeons nurse agree's there's a BIG problem and that more than

likely, Hospital Risk Management will be involved. The nurse mentioned how

this is lawsuit potential (that the hospital didn't do their job), that the

surgeon set the protocol and the hospital surgical staff did NOT follow

through and do their job.

Now, I explained I'm not a litigious person, but dammit, this surgery was a

lot of money, and if the shoe were on the other foot, by God, that hospital

would be coming after ME with both barrells. Also, another point is that I

paid for a service (marked up 1000%) and didn't get it. Furthermore, this is

how MORE COSTLY life and death mistakes happen.

My surgeon's nurse (also a surgical nurse - but works strictly in the office)

also said that, as we spoke late yesterday, she had " just " received the O.R.

nurses " ADDENDUM " to the " nurses notes " of 3-1/2 weeks ago by FAX from the

hospital. That ADDENDUM was signed and DATED YESTERDAY and it stated that

the weight of the pannus (skin) was " 3 lbs. "

Again, that report or " addendum " by the nurse was DATED YESTERDAY. When the

hospital records supervisor called me yesterday, he said he had just " run the

OR nurse down " as she had not " completed " her report and, after 3-1/2 weeks,

asked her to 'remember' the weight of the pannus of my particular surgery.

Incredible. So, the OR nurse amazingly " remembers " my surgery, writes an

" ADDENDUM " to the official record (to include the weight of the pannus) that

she " remembers " is " 3 lbs. "

Liar. And this is where I'm pissed. She's covering her ass, and is now

insulting my intelligence by thinking she can now make an " addendum " to the

original surgery notes (where she had forgot to weigh and annotate the skin).

Furthermore, we are speaking of a coverup as damage control and, what's even

WORSE than simply admitting her mistake, is BREACHING PROFESSIONAL ETHICS!!!

This is where I'm drawing the line.

My surgeons nurse said this is TROUBLE with a capital " t. " Being an OR nurse

herself, she said this is unbelieveable, and she has never seen such an

addendum. An " addendum " from surgery 3-1/2 weeks ago and they expect US to

believe that the nurse actually remembed that exact amount and is NOW

reporting it????? Also, what really perked our attention was that the weight

was NOT 3.1245 lbs, or 3.275 kg or 3.44 lbs, BUT EXACTLY " 3 lbs. " Huummmm.

When my surgeons received the hospital OR nurses " addendum " late yesterday

evening (by fax), they immediately went into damage control, as did I.

Hospital Risk Management called today and left this message on my recorder.

I'd say they are CERTAINLY dodging a bullet.

Hi *****, this is *******, the Risk Manager at Alaska Regional Hospital. I’m

returning your phone call from yesterday afternoon. I’m sorry I couldn’t

get back with you sooner. I understand there was a problem, umm, with the,

uhh, the nurse not weighing, uhhh, the tissue, the specimin tissue, and I

talked to *********, ummm, he called me as well to let me know what happened

as well, so, I’m so disheartened and so sorry this has happened, ummm, and I

agree, We have some systems problems here and process problems with this

whole thing that we need to, uuuhhh, correct. So, please give me a call so I

can get more details from you. Ummm, I’m very interested in hearing about

the problem and, umm, will be in and out with meetings all day but you can,

you know, call me back ...

Another issue is, if the INSURANCE COMPANY ever wants to challenge me for any

reason (even though this was preauthorized, but just IF), i.e. cosmetic vs.

medically necessary, i.e. " x " amount of pounds pulling on back, etc., I have

NO DOCUMENTATION AS TO THE WEIGHT. The O.R. nurses " recollection " after

3-1/2 weeks is embarassing, to say the least.

Okay - that's the story. It's now come down to professional ethics. Say

what you will, but would YOU want to have future surgeries in a hospital

where staff knowingly are compromising records? I certainly would not, and

my insurance mandates using them as a preferred provider.

It is for others, as well as myself, that I am taking on this battle.

Bobbie

Anchorage

**********************************************************************

Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 22:36:13 -0000

Bobbi, unbundle thy undies! The chart at your surgeon's office has

his dictated notes in it...look THERE. It is a record of everything

that happened during your surgery. Your frustration is certainly

heard and felt, but it feels like time to focus on simething else

and move on...you have a LIFE! Get on with it! Love, Corrine

***********************************

Subject: Re: SKIN WEIGHT

Bobbie,

Each time I asked my surgeon how much he took off he said he would tell me

the next time he saw me - never happened.

I was going to be checked for a staple line disruption and requested my

surgical notes from the hospital. They enclosed both my bypass and PS notes

so I know know. 5lbs off the belly and about 2 1/2 off of each arm.

Marjie

[Guest guest]

WRC I can certainly understand your anger and frustration. I have read your

story and can see that you have made quite an impact on this hospital. If

the nurse has falsified this document, they will have to let her go.

Here comes the But. But, how much damage do you want to do to everyone

concerned. Most of us do the best we can. If I could get sued for my

mistakes I would be in big trouble. How about you, are you mistake proof.

The only true wrong here is the follow up note. I don't know how many TT

this nurse has seen for an MO person. But I would guess, not too many. I

can believe that she would remember. I think she made an educated guess. If

you are out for blood, you can surely get it the way the courts are today.

But, there goes my chances for insurance coverage for my panni removal.

My 2 cents.

Fay Bayuk

'300/173

10/23/01

Dr.

[Guest guest]

WRC I can certainly understand your anger and frustration. I have read your

story and can see that you have made quite an impact on this hospital. If

the nurse has falsified this document, they will have to let her go.

Here comes the But. But, how much damage do you want to do to everyone

concerned. Most of us do the best we can. If I could get sued for my

mistakes I would be in big trouble. How about you, are you mistake proof.

The only true wrong here is the follow up note. I don't know how many TT

this nurse has seen for an MO person. But I would guess, not too many. I

can believe that she would remember. I think she made an educated guess. If

you are out for blood, you can surely get it the way the courts are today.

But, there goes my chances for insurance coverage for my panni removal.

My 2 cents.

Fay Bayuk

'300/173

10/23/01

Dr.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/13/2003 3:33:57 AM Eastern Standard Time, fbayuk@...

writes:

> I think she made an educated guess. If

> you are out for blood, you can surely get it the way the courts are today.

> But, there goes my chances for insurance coverage for my panni removal.

>

I agree! I CAN get sued for my mistakes, and worry about it every single

day. In 25 years of practice have never been sued but the threat is there

with every engagement. Have lost many nights sleep over the fact that I am a

human being, therefore not infallible.

A big part of this whole damn mess with insurances charging impossible

premiums and denying coverage whenever possible, hospitals and doctors

practicing defensively rather than from the heart is due to all parties

acting as if they are estranged and working at cross purposes rather than for

a common good.

I KNOW the medical community must be held accountable, that their standards

must be very high, but in this world, mistakes will always happen because we

are human. I am so frustrated by the pervasive " lets kill 'em if we can "

attitude in our society.

B

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/13/2003 3:33:57 AM Eastern Standard Time, fbayuk@...

writes:

> I think she made an educated guess. If

> you are out for blood, you can surely get it the way the courts are today.

> But, there goes my chances for insurance coverage for my panni removal.

>

I agree! I CAN get sued for my mistakes, and worry about it every single

day. In 25 years of practice have never been sued but the threat is there

with every engagement. Have lost many nights sleep over the fact that I am a

human being, therefore not infallible.

A big part of this whole damn mess with insurances charging impossible

premiums and denying coverage whenever possible, hospitals and doctors

practicing defensively rather than from the heart is due to all parties

acting as if they are estranged and working at cross purposes rather than for

a common good.

I KNOW the medical community must be held accountable, that their standards

must be very high, but in this world, mistakes will always happen because we

are human. I am so frustrated by the pervasive " lets kill 'em if we can "

attitude in our society.

B

[Guest guest]

Hi Bobbie,

I would like you to know that you are right in all of this....this hospital

has their rules for the doctors....and in turn the doctors has their rules

for their nurses....and it is the responsibilities of these parties for all

the information to turn into hospital records.... Is that not what " we " are

paying for....????

When I had my TT...my doctor came in after I woke up...and told me " himself "

that he had removed 15 lbs. of excess skin.....and he also did a " upper-tuck "

later on down the road for me....and at this time also....when I woke

up....he reported to me that he removed 8lbs.....a total of 23lbs....!!!!

And when you are told " 3lbs " ...!!!!!! And weeks after the surgery.....yes,

that does raise questions....???? And to be dated within days of asking

NOW....??? No, they are not being " fair " with you.....and are trying to

cover-up " their " mistakes.....

And yes, you know that they would come after you with both barrels.....and

when the odds are in your corner....from the sounds of the phone

call....they are in a stir of your next move.....Go for what you

deserve.....you didn't have the WLS in the beginning to later have

" forgotten " parts of your journey....this is YOUR journey....YOUR

story....YOUR life..... " PAID IN FULL "

My thoughts......Joy

[Guest guest]

Hi Bobbie,

I would like you to know that you are right in all of this....this hospital

has their rules for the doctors....and in turn the doctors has their rules

for their nurses....and it is the responsibilities of these parties for all

the information to turn into hospital records.... Is that not what " we " are

paying for....????

When I had my TT...my doctor came in after I woke up...and told me " himself "

that he had removed 15 lbs. of excess skin.....and he also did a " upper-tuck "

later on down the road for me....and at this time also....when I woke

up....he reported to me that he removed 8lbs.....a total of 23lbs....!!!!

And when you are told " 3lbs " ...!!!!!! And weeks after the surgery.....yes,

that does raise questions....???? And to be dated within days of asking

NOW....??? No, they are not being " fair " with you.....and are trying to

cover-up " their " mistakes.....

And yes, you know that they would come after you with both barrels.....and

when the odds are in your corner....from the sounds of the phone

call....they are in a stir of your next move.....Go for what you

deserve.....you didn't have the WLS in the beginning to later have

" forgotten " parts of your journey....this is YOUR journey....YOUR

story....YOUR life..... " PAID IN FULL "

My thoughts......Joy

[Guest guest]

With all due respect, (I understand your frustration, but c'mon) this is not

a matter of malpractice or of compromising one's health. It was a simple

MISTAKE, not a life threatening mistake to say the least. Give em a

break....this is the exact reason that we pay so much for health care when

it comes to self pay. Doctors and hospital have to face frivolous lawsuits

such as this. I don't even know if you are thinking about a lawsuit, I

certainly hope not, but I am sure there is some blood sucking attorney out

there who would jump on this for someone not weighing a piece of tissue!

I really don't mean any disrespect, but I am floored that such a big deal is

being mad over this.

We are all human, doctors, nurses, hospital technicians included, and

mistakes happen....if it is a life threatening mistake, that is another

story, but this is not.

Re: SKIN WEIGHT

Bobbie,

Each time I asked my surgeon how much he took off he said he would tell me

the next time he saw me - never happened.

I was going to be checked for a staple line disruption and requested my

surgical notes from the hospital. They enclosed both my bypass and PS notes

so I know know. 5lbs off the belly and about 2 1/2 off of each arm.

Marjie

Homepage: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Graduate-OSSG

Unsubscribe: mailto:Graduate-OSSG-unsubscribe

[Guest guest]

With all due respect, (I understand your frustration, but c'mon) this is not

a matter of malpractice or of compromising one's health. It was a simple

MISTAKE, not a life threatening mistake to say the least. Give em a

break....this is the exact reason that we pay so much for health care when

it comes to self pay. Doctors and hospital have to face frivolous lawsuits

such as this. I don't even know if you are thinking about a lawsuit, I

certainly hope not, but I am sure there is some blood sucking attorney out

there who would jump on this for someone not weighing a piece of tissue!

I really don't mean any disrespect, but I am floored that such a big deal is

being mad over this.

We are all human, doctors, nurses, hospital technicians included, and

mistakes happen....if it is a life threatening mistake, that is another

story, but this is not.

Re: SKIN WEIGHT

Bobbie,

Each time I asked my surgeon how much he took off he said he would tell me

the next time he saw me - never happened.

I was going to be checked for a staple line disruption and requested my

surgical notes from the hospital. They enclosed both my bypass and PS notes

so I know know. 5lbs off the belly and about 2 1/2 off of each arm.

Marjie

Homepage: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Graduate-OSSG

Unsubscribe: mailto:Graduate-OSSG-unsubscribe

[Guest guest]

I have to say that I am sorry that you do not know the EACT weight

of your skin removal. If you wanted to know that, then you should

have the information. BUT, as far as a law suit goes, don't be too

sure that you have a case. You have to meet a few criteria for a law

suit. One of them is that the actions caused you harm. Other then

frustration, I see where no harm has happened. The second is that

the harm was intentional. I am sure that there was NO intention to

cause you frustration here.

As for your surgeons note saying " for weight, see nurses note " . THat

is a poor physicians note. THat plastic surgeon should have asked,

IN THE OPERAING ROOM, how much had been removed. They should have

had that information before they ever walked out of the door. So, as

nice and wonderful as your plastic surgeon is, they did not follow

through either. ESPECIALLY since you told them BEFORE surgery that

you wanted the weight.

I am most concerned for you. You are putting alot of energy into

something that honestly, isn't really that important. Not that it

isn't important to you, but in the over all grand scheme of things,

is not going to make a bit of difference in your life. Try and find

something more positive to put all of this energy into. IT will make

you feel better. You've made as much of a difference in the hospital

policy by raising this stink as you can. They know that you are

pissed, and they know that they screwed up. And i can bet that there

will be a new " policy " or " standard " written to address this. Does

that mean that it won't happen agian? Nope. But, you have done your

part. FInd a new cause, for your sake. Your going to give yourself

an ulcer. Or a heart attack. And it's really not worth it.

Oh, one other thing, as for your insurance company coming back and

saying that they did not remove enough skin for this surgery, that

is a very valid point. Wait and see what happens. If you have issues

with the insurance, then you can go back to the hosptial and make

them aware of what the error is causing. They will most likely

respond to you appropriately and help with the insurance issues.

> Okay guys -- we're now talking a matter of professional ethics as

you will

> see in my explanation below. It's NOT just a matter of skin

weight

> (which,yes, I wanted to know ... and yes, I paid for this surgery

to have

> this information as well ... and yes, my surgeon knew I wanted

this

> information).

>

> I am VERY well grounded, and thankful for my health, but for those

of you who

> suggest that I move on (and I respect your opinions), here's the

story.

>

> For almost 4 weeks I've been TRYING to find out the weight of the

skin I had

> removed during my panniculectomy on 2/14. And now, from all

appearances,

> someone's not taking personal accountability for their mistake.

Yes, to err

> is human, but in the medical world, there is a higher standard.

>

> To backup, I personally spoke to doctor first post-op visit, day 3

post-op

> about the weight of my pannus. She didn't remember. Said it

would be in

> O.R. notes.

>

> I waited to Day 6, 2nd post-op visit. Inquired with doctor, said

she still

> didn't have O.R. notes (nurses notes), so she couldn't say. Said

she'd let

> me know.

>

> The next week, I called hospital and faxed them a records release

for O.R.

> surgeon's / nurses notes.

>

> Received surgeons notes but NOT the O.R. nurses notes from the

hospital. I

> requested the O.R. nurses notes for 2-1/2 weeks. Never got them.

Surgeon

> requested O.R. nurses notes for 2-1/2 weeks, never got them. I

finally

> called hospital Risk Management on Monday afternoon to get things

moving.

> Boy, did they.

>

> I read surgeons O.R. notes. There was NO MENTION of skin removal

weight. In

> the surgeons notes, where standard info line says " skin weight, "

doctors

> dictation says " see nurses notes. "

>

> I QUOTE - DOCTORS SURGICAL REPORT SAYS:

>

> " The abdominal skin and fat that was excised was weighed and was

then

> discarded (see nursing notes for the exact weight). "

>

> This is in the doctor's surgical notes, and I have them. This was

PROTOCOL

> set by my surgeon.

>

> Bottom line, O.R. Nurse did NOT follow doctor's orders. After

speaking with

> my surgeon's office and her nurse, the nurse reiterated surgeon's

notes DID

> REQUIRE the O.R. nurse to write down the weight and the surgeon

knew (before

> my surgery) that I wanted that information.

>

> So, from her surgical notes above, the surgeon is in the clear and

she DID

> put this in her notes (before my inquiry, mind you) AND the

surgeon put her

> protocol to the nurses there to weight the specimin.

>

> (The OR nurses WERE NOT the surgeon's nurses, but employees of the

hospital.)

>

> Now, the surgeons nurse agree's there's a BIG problem and that

more than

> likely, Hospital Risk Management will be involved. The nurse

mentioned how

> this is lawsuit potential (that the hospital didn't do their job),

that the

> surgeon set the protocol and the hospital surgical staff did NOT

follow

> through and do their job.

>

> Now, I explained I'm not a litigious person, but dammit, this

surgery was a

> lot of money, and if the shoe were on the other foot, by God, that

hospital

> would be coming after ME with both barrells. Also, another point

is that I

> paid for a service (marked up 1000%) and didn't get it.

Furthermore, this is

> how MORE COSTLY life and death mistakes happen.

>

> My surgeon's nurse (also a surgical nurse - but works strictly in

the office)

> also said that, as we spoke late yesterday, she had " just "

received the O.R.

> nurses " ADDENDUM " to the " nurses notes " of 3-1/2 weeks ago by FAX

from the

> hospital. That ADDENDUM was signed and DATED YESTERDAY and it

stated that

> the weight of the pannus (skin) was " 3 lbs. "

>

> Again, that report or " addendum " by the nurse was DATED

YESTERDAY. When the

> hospital records supervisor called me yesterday, he said he had

just " run the

> OR nurse down " as she had not " completed " her report and, after 3-

1/2 weeks,

> asked her to 'remember' the weight of the pannus of my particular

surgery.

> Incredible. So, the OR nurse amazingly " remembers " my surgery,

writes an

> " ADDENDUM " to the official record (to include the weight of the

pannus) that

> she " remembers " is " 3 lbs. "

>

> Liar. And this is where I'm pissed. She's covering her ass, and

is now

> insulting my intelligence by thinking she can now make

an " addendum " to the

> original surgery notes (where she had forgot to weigh and annotate

the skin).

>

>

> Furthermore, we are speaking of a coverup as damage control and,

what's even

> WORSE than simply admitting her mistake, is BREACHING PROFESSIONAL

ETHICS!!!

>

> This is where I'm drawing the line.

>

> My surgeons nurse said this is TROUBLE with a capital " t. " Being

an OR nurse

> herself, she said this is unbelieveable, and she has never seen

such an

> addendum. An " addendum " from surgery 3-1/2 weeks ago and they

expect US to

> believe that the nurse actually remembed that exact amount and is

NOW

> reporting it????? Also, what really perked our attention was that

the weight

> was NOT 3.1245 lbs, or 3.275 kg or 3.44 lbs, BUT EXACTLY " 3 lbs. "

Huummmm.

>

> When my surgeons received the hospital OR nurses " addendum " late

yesterday

> evening (by fax), they immediately went into damage control, as

did I.

>

> Hospital Risk Management called today and left this message on my

recorder.

> I'd say they are CERTAINLY dodging a bullet.

>

> Hi *****, this is *******, the Risk Manager at Alaska Regional

Hospital. I’m

> returning your phone call from yesterday afternoon. I’m sorry I

couldn’t

> get back with you sooner. I understand there was a problem, umm,

with the,

> uhh, the nurse not weighing, uhhh, the tissue, the specimin

tissue, and I

> talked to *********, ummm, he called me as well to let me know

what happened

> as well, so, I’m so disheartened and so sorry this has happened,

ummm, and I

> agree, We have some systems problems here and process problems

with this

> whole thing that we need to, uuuhhh, correct. So, please give me

a call so I

> can get more details from you. Ummm, I’m very interested in

hearing about

> the problem and, umm, will be in and out with meetings all day but

you can,

> you know, call me back ...

>

> Another issue is, if the INSURANCE COMPANY ever wants to challenge

me for any

> reason (even though this was preauthorized, but just IF), i.e.

cosmetic vs.

> medically necessary, i.e. " x " amount of pounds pulling on back,

etc., I have

> NO DOCUMENTATION AS TO THE WEIGHT. The O.R.

nurses " recollection " after

> 3-1/2 weeks is embarassing, to say the least.

>

> Okay - that's the story. It's now come down to professional

ethics. Say

> what you will, but would YOU want to have future surgeries in a

hospital

> where staff knowingly are compromising records? I certainly would

not, and

> my insurance mandates using them as a preferred provider.

>

> It is for others, as well as myself, that I am taking on this

battle.

>

> Bobbie

> Anchorage

>

>

*********************************************************************

*

> Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 22:36:13 -0000

> From: " Corrine Grantwit " <GRANTWIT@M...>

>

> Bobbi, unbundle thy undies! The chart at your surgeon's office

has

> his dictated notes in it...look THERE. It is a record of

everything

> that happened during your surgery. Your frustration is certainly

> heard and felt, but it feels like time to focus on simething else

> and move on...you have a LIFE! Get on with it! Love, Corrine

>

> ***********************************

>

> From: " Marjie Wassermann " <jonnysgirl81@m...>

> Subject: Re: SKIN WEIGHT

>

> Bobbie,

>

> Each time I asked my surgeon how much he took off he said he would

tell me

> the next time he saw me - never happened.

>

> I was going to be checked for a staple line disruption and

requested my

> surgical notes from the hospital. They enclosed both my bypass

and PS notes

> so I know know. 5lbs off the belly and about 2 1/2 off of each

arm.

>

> Marjie

[Guest guest]

I have to say that I am sorry that you do not know the EACT weight

of your skin removal. If you wanted to know that, then you should

have the information. BUT, as far as a law suit goes, don't be too

sure that you have a case. You have to meet a few criteria for a law

suit. One of them is that the actions caused you harm. Other then

frustration, I see where no harm has happened. The second is that

the harm was intentional. I am sure that there was NO intention to

cause you frustration here.

As for your surgeons note saying " for weight, see nurses note " . THat

is a poor physicians note. THat plastic surgeon should have asked,

IN THE OPERAING ROOM, how much had been removed. They should have

had that information before they ever walked out of the door. So, as

nice and wonderful as your plastic surgeon is, they did not follow

through either. ESPECIALLY since you told them BEFORE surgery that

you wanted the weight.

I am most concerned for you. You are putting alot of energy into

something that honestly, isn't really that important. Not that it

isn't important to you, but in the over all grand scheme of things,

is not going to make a bit of difference in your life. Try and find

something more positive to put all of this energy into. IT will make

you feel better. You've made as much of a difference in the hospital

policy by raising this stink as you can. They know that you are

pissed, and they know that they screwed up. And i can bet that there

will be a new " policy " or " standard " written to address this. Does

that mean that it won't happen agian? Nope. But, you have done your

part. FInd a new cause, for your sake. Your going to give yourself

an ulcer. Or a heart attack. And it's really not worth it.

Oh, one other thing, as for your insurance company coming back and

saying that they did not remove enough skin for this surgery, that

is a very valid point. Wait and see what happens. If you have issues

with the insurance, then you can go back to the hosptial and make

them aware of what the error is causing. They will most likely

respond to you appropriately and help with the insurance issues.

> Okay guys -- we're now talking a matter of professional ethics as

you will

> see in my explanation below. It's NOT just a matter of skin

weight

> (which,yes, I wanted to know ... and yes, I paid for this surgery

to have

> this information as well ... and yes, my surgeon knew I wanted

this

> information).

>

> I am VERY well grounded, and thankful for my health, but for those

of you who

> suggest that I move on (and I respect your opinions), here's the

story.

>

> For almost 4 weeks I've been TRYING to find out the weight of the

skin I had

> removed during my panniculectomy on 2/14. And now, from all

appearances,

> someone's not taking personal accountability for their mistake.

Yes, to err

> is human, but in the medical world, there is a higher standard.

>

> To backup, I personally spoke to doctor first post-op visit, day 3

post-op

> about the weight of my pannus. She didn't remember. Said it

would be in

> O.R. notes.

>

> I waited to Day 6, 2nd post-op visit. Inquired with doctor, said

she still

> didn't have O.R. notes (nurses notes), so she couldn't say. Said

she'd let

> me know.

>

> The next week, I called hospital and faxed them a records release

for O.R.

> surgeon's / nurses notes.

>

> Received surgeons notes but NOT the O.R. nurses notes from the

hospital. I

> requested the O.R. nurses notes for 2-1/2 weeks. Never got them.

Surgeon

> requested O.R. nurses notes for 2-1/2 weeks, never got them. I

finally

> called hospital Risk Management on Monday afternoon to get things

moving.

> Boy, did they.

>

> I read surgeons O.R. notes. There was NO MENTION of skin removal

weight. In

> the surgeons notes, where standard info line says " skin weight, "

doctors

> dictation says " see nurses notes. "

>

> I QUOTE - DOCTORS SURGICAL REPORT SAYS:

>

> " The abdominal skin and fat that was excised was weighed and was

then

> discarded (see nursing notes for the exact weight). "

>

> This is in the doctor's surgical notes, and I have them. This was

PROTOCOL

> set by my surgeon.

>

> Bottom line, O.R. Nurse did NOT follow doctor's orders. After

speaking with

> my surgeon's office and her nurse, the nurse reiterated surgeon's

notes DID

> REQUIRE the O.R. nurse to write down the weight and the surgeon

knew (before

> my surgery) that I wanted that information.

>

> So, from her surgical notes above, the surgeon is in the clear and

she DID

> put this in her notes (before my inquiry, mind you) AND the

surgeon put her

> protocol to the nurses there to weight the specimin.

>

> (The OR nurses WERE NOT the surgeon's nurses, but employees of the

hospital.)

>

> Now, the surgeons nurse agree's there's a BIG problem and that

more than

> likely, Hospital Risk Management will be involved. The nurse

mentioned how

> this is lawsuit potential (that the hospital didn't do their job),

that the

> surgeon set the protocol and the hospital surgical staff did NOT

follow

> through and do their job.

>

> Now, I explained I'm not a litigious person, but dammit, this

surgery was a

> lot of money, and if the shoe were on the other foot, by God, that

hospital

> would be coming after ME with both barrells. Also, another point

is that I

> paid for a service (marked up 1000%) and didn't get it.

Furthermore, this is

> how MORE COSTLY life and death mistakes happen.

>

> My surgeon's nurse (also a surgical nurse - but works strictly in

the office)

> also said that, as we spoke late yesterday, she had " just "

received the O.R.

> nurses " ADDENDUM " to the " nurses notes " of 3-1/2 weeks ago by FAX

from the

> hospital. That ADDENDUM was signed and DATED YESTERDAY and it

stated that

> the weight of the pannus (skin) was " 3 lbs. "

>

> Again, that report or " addendum " by the nurse was DATED

YESTERDAY. When the

> hospital records supervisor called me yesterday, he said he had

just " run the

> OR nurse down " as she had not " completed " her report and, after 3-

1/2 weeks,

> asked her to 'remember' the weight of the pannus of my particular

surgery.

> Incredible. So, the OR nurse amazingly " remembers " my surgery,

writes an

> " ADDENDUM " to the official record (to include the weight of the

pannus) that

> she " remembers " is " 3 lbs. "

>

> Liar. And this is where I'm pissed. She's covering her ass, and

is now

> insulting my intelligence by thinking she can now make

an " addendum " to the

> original surgery notes (where she had forgot to weigh and annotate

the skin).

>

>

> Furthermore, we are speaking of a coverup as damage control and,

what's even

> WORSE than simply admitting her mistake, is BREACHING PROFESSIONAL

ETHICS!!!

>

> This is where I'm drawing the line.

>

> My surgeons nurse said this is TROUBLE with a capital " t. " Being

an OR nurse

> herself, she said this is unbelieveable, and she has never seen

such an

> addendum. An " addendum " from surgery 3-1/2 weeks ago and they

expect US to

> believe that the nurse actually remembed that exact amount and is

NOW

> reporting it????? Also, what really perked our attention was that

the weight

> was NOT 3.1245 lbs, or 3.275 kg or 3.44 lbs, BUT EXACTLY " 3 lbs. "

Huummmm.

>

> When my surgeons received the hospital OR nurses " addendum " late

yesterday

> evening (by fax), they immediately went into damage control, as

did I.

>

> Hospital Risk Management called today and left this message on my

recorder.

> I'd say they are CERTAINLY dodging a bullet.

>

> Hi *****, this is *******, the Risk Manager at Alaska Regional

Hospital. I’m

> returning your phone call from yesterday afternoon. I’m sorry I

couldn’t

> get back with you sooner. I understand there was a problem, umm,

with the,

> uhh, the nurse not weighing, uhhh, the tissue, the specimin

tissue, and I

> talked to *********, ummm, he called me as well to let me know

what happened

> as well, so, I’m so disheartened and so sorry this has happened,

ummm, and I

> agree, We have some systems problems here and process problems

with this

> whole thing that we need to, uuuhhh, correct. So, please give me

a call so I

> can get more details from you. Ummm, I’m very interested in

hearing about

> the problem and, umm, will be in and out with meetings all day but

you can,

> you know, call me back ...

>

> Another issue is, if the INSURANCE COMPANY ever wants to challenge

me for any

> reason (even though this was preauthorized, but just IF), i.e.

cosmetic vs.

> medically necessary, i.e. " x " amount of pounds pulling on back,

etc., I have

> NO DOCUMENTATION AS TO THE WEIGHT. The O.R.

nurses " recollection " after

> 3-1/2 weeks is embarassing, to say the least.

>

> Okay - that's the story. It's now come down to professional

ethics. Say

> what you will, but would YOU want to have future surgeries in a

hospital

> where staff knowingly are compromising records? I certainly would

not, and

> my insurance mandates using them as a preferred provider.

>

> It is for others, as well as myself, that I am taking on this

battle.

>

> Bobbie

> Anchorage

>

>

*********************************************************************

*

> Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 22:36:13 -0000

> From: " Corrine Grantwit " <GRANTWIT@M...>

>

> Bobbi, unbundle thy undies! The chart at your surgeon's office

has

> his dictated notes in it...look THERE. It is a record of

everything

> that happened during your surgery. Your frustration is certainly

> heard and felt, but it feels like time to focus on simething else

> and move on...you have a LIFE! Get on with it! Love, Corrine

>

> ***********************************

>

> From: " Marjie Wassermann " <jonnysgirl81@m...>

> Subject: Re: SKIN WEIGHT

>

> Bobbie,

>

> Each time I asked my surgeon how much he took off he said he would

tell me

> the next time he saw me - never happened.

>

> I was going to be checked for a staple line disruption and

requested my

> surgical notes from the hospital. They enclosed both my bypass

and PS notes

> so I know know. 5lbs off the belly and about 2 1/2 off of each

arm.

>

> Marjie

[Guest guest]

Bobbie, we've emailed privately, and I'll say it again on-list...if

this blunder by the hospital (and OR nurse) prevents a real tragedy

at some point in the future (like that terrible mistake at Duke with

the little girl who had a transplant with a wrong blood type),it is

oh so worth it. It's the simple little stupid mistakes which are the

most frustrating, preventable and can be the most life-threatening.

The hopsital obviously really need this wake-up call, and you may

have saved another life by rocking the boat.

JMHO,

in NJ

[Guest guest]

Bobbie, we've emailed privately, and I'll say it again on-list...if

this blunder by the hospital (and OR nurse) prevents a real tragedy

at some point in the future (like that terrible mistake at Duke with

the little girl who had a transplant with a wrong blood type),it is

oh so worth it. It's the simple little stupid mistakes which are the

most frustrating, preventable and can be the most life-threatening.

The hopsital obviously really need this wake-up call, and you may

have saved another life by rocking the boat.

JMHO,

in NJ

[Guest guest]

I'd like to clarify my response...I do believe that Bobbie has a

right to cause a fuss at the hospital, but I don't believe a lawsuit

is in order, UNLESS her insurance company refuses to pay due to the

lack of stated tissue weight. I would think, if that was the case,

that the hospital would cover those charges in order to prevent

further publicity.

Again, JMHO,

in NJ

************************

> With all due respect, (I understand your frustration, but c'mon)

this is not a matter of malpractice or of compromising one's health.

It was a simple MISTAKE, not a life threatening mistake to say the

least.

[Guest guest]

I'd like to clarify my response...I do believe that Bobbie has a

right to cause a fuss at the hospital, but I don't believe a lawsuit

is in order, UNLESS her insurance company refuses to pay due to the

lack of stated tissue weight. I would think, if that was the case,

that the hospital would cover those charges in order to prevent

further publicity.

Again, JMHO,

in NJ

************************

> With all due respect, (I understand your frustration, but c'mon)

this is not a matter of malpractice or of compromising one's health.

It was a simple MISTAKE, not a life threatening mistake to say the

least.

[Guest guest]

Fay -

As I have stated many times, I am NOT a litigious individual, however, I take

exception to your statement (and, am somewhat offended) by " how much damage "

I " want to do to everyone concerned. " With all due respect, this is an

incredible statement. How much damage I want to do? Huuummm.

Fay, I am hopeful that you understand that the medical profession is held to

a MUCH HIGHER STANDARD than you or I. Again, yes, we are ALL fallible, we

ALL make mistakes. However, if NO ONE speaks up, a more serious mistake can

happen to YOU or YOUR LOVED ONE next time.

It all boils down to standard of care as well as professional ethics. I have

had 2 previous standard of care issues with this same hospital (which I did

not go into).

This is strike 3, and my expectations for this facility have been greatly

reduced (from my past experiences) from expecting to receive adequate care,

to just being thankful that I come home alive. This may be a dramatic

statement, but what a sad commentary when a patient should have to overlook

good and decent before/during/and aftercare, and have the sole expectation of

simply " coming home alive. " At this point, the old adage of " all's well that

ends well " does not cut it for me.

My previous negative experiences (at this same hospital) occurred during a

c-section (10 years ago) AND my WLS, almost 2 years ago. I remained

grounded, after these issues, and " overlooked " standard of care

oversights/errors connected with these surgeries.

One was with O.R. staff allowing my epidural to expire PRIOR to the surgeon

cutting into me during a c-section, allowing me to FEEL EVERYTHING and

resulting in me going into immediate shock from the pain of the c-section

incision and the tearing of the tissue into the uterus. Despite my crys for

help, despite all monitors indicating I was in distress from pain, the

surgeon could not do anything but continue, nor anesthetize me UNTIL the

baby's head came out. This was a serious issue, and I was almost lost from

shock.

I had asked about the IV as I was rolled into the OR for the c-section (it

was NOT an emergency situation). I saw it was extremely low. By the time

they cut, it had run out. My pleas' to the OR staff nurses was disregarded

and that O.R. " oversight " resulted in me being placed me in grave danger. I

never pursued this, I counted my blessings, went on with my life and my

records indicate the truth of the matter.

I will not go into the second incident that occurred with my nursing care

during my WLS.

I now am drawing the line on this one. This is strike three for this

facility, that I am forced to go to as my PPO. This is not MY fight. This

is not a money-making endeavor on my part. This is a fight for ALL who go

AFTER me, or God forbid, for me, should I need the services of this same

hospital again.

Furthermore, a timely response to my records request, a timely response to my

concerns and a timely acknowledgment by the nurse that there had been a

mistake would have made all the difference to me. But the fact that all

parties involved (except my surgeons office not associated with the hospital)

tried to sweep with under the carpet SCREAMS something very loudly to me.

I am hopeful, by way of my concerns, this hospital would practice more due

diligence in the future. .

Thank you for your thoughts.

Bobbie

Anchorage

****************************************

<<Here comes the But. But, how much damage do you want to do to everyone

concerned. Most of us do the best we can. If I could get sued for my

mistakes I would be in big trouble. How about you, are you mistake proof. >>

My 2 cents.

Fay Bayuk

'300/173

10/23/01

Dr.

[Guest guest]

Fay -

As I have stated many times, I am NOT a litigious individual, however, I take

exception to your statement (and, am somewhat offended) by " how much damage "

I " want to do to everyone concerned. " With all due respect, this is an

incredible statement. How much damage I want to do? Huuummm.

Fay, I am hopeful that you understand that the medical profession is held to

a MUCH HIGHER STANDARD than you or I. Again, yes, we are ALL fallible, we

ALL make mistakes. However, if NO ONE speaks up, a more serious mistake can

happen to YOU or YOUR LOVED ONE next time.

It all boils down to standard of care as well as professional ethics. I have

had 2 previous standard of care issues with this same hospital (which I did

not go into).

This is strike 3, and my expectations for this facility have been greatly

reduced (from my past experiences) from expecting to receive adequate care,

to just being thankful that I come home alive. This may be a dramatic

statement, but what a sad commentary when a patient should have to overlook

good and decent before/during/and aftercare, and have the sole expectation of

simply " coming home alive. " At this point, the old adage of " all's well that

ends well " does not cut it for me.

My previous negative experiences (at this same hospital) occurred during a

c-section (10 years ago) AND my WLS, almost 2 years ago. I remained

grounded, after these issues, and " overlooked " standard of care

oversights/errors connected with these surgeries.

One was with O.R. staff allowing my epidural to expire PRIOR to the surgeon

cutting into me during a c-section, allowing me to FEEL EVERYTHING and

resulting in me going into immediate shock from the pain of the c-section

incision and the tearing of the tissue into the uterus. Despite my crys for

help, despite all monitors indicating I was in distress from pain, the

surgeon could not do anything but continue, nor anesthetize me UNTIL the

baby's head came out. This was a serious issue, and I was almost lost from

shock.

I had asked about the IV as I was rolled into the OR for the c-section (it

was NOT an emergency situation). I saw it was extremely low. By the time

they cut, it had run out. My pleas' to the OR staff nurses was disregarded

and that O.R. " oversight " resulted in me being placed me in grave danger. I

never pursued this, I counted my blessings, went on with my life and my

records indicate the truth of the matter.

I will not go into the second incident that occurred with my nursing care

during my WLS.

I now am drawing the line on this one. This is strike three for this

facility, that I am forced to go to as my PPO. This is not MY fight. This

is not a money-making endeavor on my part. This is a fight for ALL who go

AFTER me, or God forbid, for me, should I need the services of this same

hospital again.

Furthermore, a timely response to my records request, a timely response to my

concerns and a timely acknowledgment by the nurse that there had been a

mistake would have made all the difference to me. But the fact that all

parties involved (except my surgeons office not associated with the hospital)

tried to sweep with under the carpet SCREAMS something very loudly to me.

I am hopeful, by way of my concerns, this hospital would practice more due

diligence in the future. .

Thank you for your thoughts.

Bobbie

Anchorage

****************************************

<<Here comes the But. But, how much damage do you want to do to everyone

concerned. Most of us do the best we can. If I could get sued for my

mistakes I would be in big trouble. How about you, are you mistake proof. >>

My 2 cents.

Fay Bayuk

'300/173

10/23/01

Dr.

[Guest guest]

Thank you for " getting it, " Joy.

Your thoughtful reply is appreciated.

Bobbie

Anchorage

[Guest guest]

Thank you for " getting it, " Joy.

Your thoughtful reply is appreciated.

Bobbie

Anchorage

[Guest guest]

I think that everyones " opinion " is of the individual....for the one making

the opinion... And from the first of this concern....not once did I read that

Bobbie was talking of " malpractice " .... " sueing " ....she just was making a

statement of negligence....and in reflect to her WLS journey this is an

important part of her " story " ....

Unless everyone else is reading " between " the lines.....this just goes to

show how one reads what " they " want to read....and right away in the medical

field....seems to be the first word that all sees....MALPRACTICE....

And you are right....this added stress is not healthy for " anyone " ...and I

also do hope that she has rocked the waves for " future " negligence....this

time it was a minor mistake....but what about the next time....???? This is

where one needs to make sure that their voice is heard....so that there may

NOT be a next time......

Unless we walk in her shoes....and feel her pain of " not knowing " she has the

right to voice herself also...and her concerns....Good luck Bobbie....

Boogs.....

[Guest guest]

I think that everyones " opinion " is of the individual....for the one making

the opinion... And from the first of this concern....not once did I read that

Bobbie was talking of " malpractice " .... " sueing " ....she just was making a

statement of negligence....and in reflect to her WLS journey this is an

important part of her " story " ....

Unless everyone else is reading " between " the lines.....this just goes to

show how one reads what " they " want to read....and right away in the medical

field....seems to be the first word that all sees....MALPRACTICE....

And you are right....this added stress is not healthy for " anyone " ...and I

also do hope that she has rocked the waves for " future " negligence....this

time it was a minor mistake....but what about the next time....???? This is

where one needs to make sure that their voice is heard....so that there may

NOT be a next time......

Unless we walk in her shoes....and feel her pain of " not knowing " she has the

right to voice herself also...and her concerns....Good luck Bobbie....

Boogs.....

[Guest guest]

I am so frustrated by the pervasive " lets kill 'em if we can "

> attitude in our society.

And then there are times that this attitude " isn't " taken. The night my Mom

dies we had her taken to the ER because we thought she had a horrible flu

and her system was " taxed " due to chemo and radiation. While being given an

x-ray she was left alone in the x-ray room on a cold hard table for 15

minutes........during that time (she couldn't lay flat due to her esophagus)

but they made her anyway. When someone finally remembered that she was in

there (they say at least 15 minutes)she had vomited and aspirated on it.

When they found her she was unconscious...they tried to intibate her....but

it was too late. She was dead 4 hours later!! She had just found out 2

weeks prior that her cancer was in remission and they had estimated that she

would live at least another 7 to 8 years. We were devastated and

shocked.....couldn't figure out what had gone wrong. Her 6 kids decided

against an autopsy (she would have been really against it) and the hospital

didn't know what happened but kept trying to convince us that it was a blood

clot to the lung. Several days later the nurse from her oncologist office

called and read the ER notes to us! The hospital NEVER mentioned the being

left alone and forgotten! The nurse was all but encouraging us to " sue. "

We all thought about it and prayed on and decided against it. Sure, most of

us could have REALLY used the $$ and man were we PISSED!!!!!! But we

decided that:

1) it couldn't/wouldn't bring her back......she had worked in the medical

field her whole life.......she knew that doc's and nurses and technicians

were not infallible.

2) and I had always felt as though the Lord had dealt graciously with her

death........she wasn't afraid to die.......she was just afraid of

" how " .........she knew ultimately with esophageal cancer she would die a

long, painful suffering death! This spared her of that.

Am I saying we made the 'right' decision......I don't know any better now

than I did that night!! And I am NOT saying that anyone should or shouldn't

ever sue........not at all. I have always struggled with the issue that

yes, there are " accidents " , but then again there is always " neglect " ....I

wonder if we did the right thing in the fact that this technician was never

held accountable for any wrong doing.......did this leave him/her available

to do it to someone else. Would it have made a difference to us if we had

found out that he/she had done this sort of thing before?? I guess what I

am trying to say is that all circumstances are different. We cannot say

that anyone's circumstances are any less valid to sue over than anothers.

Most often than not we don't know enough of the details to make that kind of

judgment! For instance years ago when Mc's was sued for the hot

coffee......people thought it was ridiculous.....yet most never heard the

facts that Mc's had been warned repeatedly to lower the temp on their

coffee...that this was NOT the first law-suit! That the coffee was SO hot

it actually REMOVED the skin from the ladies thighs......she had to endure

months of skin graphs and therapies!! But anyway........now that I have

gotten out of hand....I just wanted to say that there is always the other

side of the coin........... P.

Re: Re: SKIN WEIGHT - Lengthy

> In a message dated 3/13/2003 3:33:57 AM Eastern Standard Time,

fbayuk@...

> writes:

> > I think she made an educated guess. If

> > you are out for blood, you can surely get it the way the courts are

today.

> > But, there goes my chances for insurance coverage for my panni removal.

> >

> I agree! I CAN get sued for my mistakes, and worry about it every single

> day. In 25 years of practice have never been sued but the threat is there

> with every engagement. Have lost many nights sleep over the fact that I am

a

> human being, therefore not infallible.

> A big part of this whole damn mess with insurances charging impossible

> premiums and denying coverage whenever possible, hospitals and doctors

> practicing defensively rather than from the heart is due to all parties

> acting as if they are estranged and working at cross purposes rather than

for

> a common good.

> I KNOW the medical community must be held accountable, that their

standards

> must be very high, but in this world, mistakes will always happen because

we

> are human. > B

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I am so frustrated by the pervasive " lets kill 'em if we can "

> attitude in our society.

And then there are times that this attitude " isn't " taken. The night my Mom

dies we had her taken to the ER because we thought she had a horrible flu

and her system was " taxed " due to chemo and radiation. While being given an

x-ray she was left alone in the x-ray room on a cold hard table for 15

minutes........during that time (she couldn't lay flat due to her esophagus)

but they made her anyway. When someone finally remembered that she was in

there (they say at least 15 minutes)she had vomited and aspirated on it.

When they found her she was unconscious...they tried to intibate her....but

it was too late. She was dead 4 hours later!! She had just found out 2

weeks prior that her cancer was in remission and they had estimated that she

would live at least another 7 to 8 years. We were devastated and

shocked.....couldn't figure out what had gone wrong. Her 6 kids decided

against an autopsy (she would have been really against it) and the hospital

didn't know what happened but kept trying to convince us that it was a blood

clot to the lung. Several days later the nurse from her oncologist office

called and read the ER notes to us! The hospital NEVER mentioned the being

left alone and forgotten! The nurse was all but encouraging us to " sue. "

We all thought about it and prayed on and decided against it. Sure, most of

us could have REALLY used the $$ and man were we PISSED!!!!!! But we

decided that:

1) it couldn't/wouldn't bring her back......she had worked in the medical

field her whole life.......she knew that doc's and nurses and technicians

were not infallible.

2) and I had always felt as though the Lord had dealt graciously with her

death........she wasn't afraid to die.......she was just afraid of

" how " .........she knew ultimately with esophageal cancer she would die a

long, painful suffering death! This spared her of that.

Am I saying we made the 'right' decision......I don't know any better now

than I did that night!! And I am NOT saying that anyone should or shouldn't

ever sue........not at all. I have always struggled with the issue that

yes, there are " accidents " , but then again there is always " neglect " ....I

wonder if we did the right thing in the fact that this technician was never

held accountable for any wrong doing.......did this leave him/her available

to do it to someone else. Would it have made a difference to us if we had

found out that he/she had done this sort of thing before?? I guess what I

am trying to say is that all circumstances are different. We cannot say

that anyone's circumstances are any less valid to sue over than anothers.

Most often than not we don't know enough of the details to make that kind of

judgment! For instance years ago when Mc's was sued for the hot

coffee......people thought it was ridiculous.....yet most never heard the

facts that Mc's had been warned repeatedly to lower the temp on their

coffee...that this was NOT the first law-suit! That the coffee was SO hot

it actually REMOVED the skin from the ladies thighs......she had to endure

months of skin graphs and therapies!! But anyway........now that I have

gotten out of hand....I just wanted to say that there is always the other

side of the coin........... P.

Re: Re: SKIN WEIGHT - Lengthy

> In a message dated 3/13/2003 3:33:57 AM Eastern Standard Time,

fbayuk@...

> writes:

> > I think she made an educated guess. If

> > you are out for blood, you can surely get it the way the courts are

today.

> > But, there goes my chances for insurance coverage for my panni removal.

> >

> I agree! I CAN get sued for my mistakes, and worry about it every single

> day. In 25 years of practice have never been sued but the threat is there

> with every engagement. Have lost many nights sleep over the fact that I am

a

> human being, therefore not infallible.

> A big part of this whole damn mess with insurances charging impossible

> premiums and denying coverage whenever possible, hospitals and doctors

> practicing defensively rather than from the heart is due to all parties

> acting as if they are estranged and working at cross purposes rather than

for

> a common good.

> I KNOW the medical community must be held accountable, that their

standards

> must be very high, but in this world, mistakes will always happen because

we

> are human. > B

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Nan you and your family are truly kind people. You make this all worthwhile.

Your mom would have been proud of you.

Fay Bayuk