Am I playing with fire?

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/10/2003 11:07:30 AM Eastern Standard Time,

dulcidog@... writes:

<< So am I playing with fire, or am I just lucky? It just

seems too easy. >>

Damn Lucky.

Going to slit my wrists now.

B

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/10/03 10:07:12 AM Central Standard Time,

dulcidog@... writes:

<< That's it. I know it looks bad, but how am I able to maintain my weight

so

well if it's all that bad? >>

-----------------------------

Based on my own personal experiences, I'd say you're just darned lucky!! I

certainly envy you.

Carol A

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

My suggestion would be to keep careful food charts for one week tracking your

protein, carbs, calories and supps in detail. Don't change anything - just

do your normal routine, but write it all down on a chart of some kind. Then

I'd go to a good nutritionist with experience in this field, show your chart

to them and ask them to help you evaluate your pattern.

Eventually everyone has to evolve a healthy eating plan that supplies the

necessary nutrients and works 'well enough' for them. It is true that many

of us are able to eat a wide variety of normal foods. I personally believe

that no one should have to 'diet' after gbs if they add healthy foods back

into their life carefully and wisely and exercise regularly. The biggest

problems over time are the 'not so healthy' foods (like s'mores ;o)) and

slipping back into old patterns of using food for coping instead of

nourishment. Sometimes we all need a treat. I'm a big fan of building lots

of enjoyment into the daily routine. But it shouldn't be random or

impulsive. It needs to be planned. And we need to develop and practice lots

of new ways to cope. Food is very comforting for most of us but there are

other ways to achieve feeling comforted. Recovering compulsive overeaters

need a long list of alternatives. It's impossible to think of them in the

middle of a raging impulse, so make it, and keep it handy.

Another problem people sometimes have as time goes on is rising hunger and

being able to consume larger amounts of food after the first year or two.

Staying within the portion sizes you are comfortable with at 15 months may be

considerably more difficult at 24 months. I call this the 'creep' factor. A

little extra here and a little extra there, a little hungrier here and a

little hungrier there.... If this happens several times each day or at each

meal/snack you've got a 'creeping' problem that will add up unhappily on the

scale.

Charting regularly kills 'creep'. Most people hate to do it but I think it's

a great habit to get into. I think it's as important as monitoring your

supplements and blood work. Having good food records can provide a baseline

of your eating dehavior. Then if a big problem does develop you have a much

better ability to figure out what's up. And you aren't caught postponing

treatment while you attempt to create baseline data later when things really

aren't normal .

One final thought I have is that the best long term outcomes from this

surgery are when people finally feel in charge/control of their eating and

behavior. When we credit magic or mysterious forces for our successes or for

our failures we give up some of our own personal power to choose the life we

want and deserve. Luck should never get the credit for your good choices

and stability. You are the architect of your own success.

Carol

Shrinkin' in Philly

RNY-HUP -1998-135 lbs.

Carol Signore, MAT, MS, LMFT

Marriage & Family Therapy

Private Practice-Ambler, PA

Chairman Weight Loss Surgery SIG

Academy For Eating Disorders

Pilot Program- Bariatric After Care

www.myselfdesign.com

[Guest guest]

Not everyone has to be so strict about their diet. I am jealous somewhat,

because I'm one of those who has to watch every single gram of food I put in

my mouth. No cookies, No chips, NO fried ANYTHING, EVER. If I do, I will

get sick... and even if I ate a small enough quantity to not get sick, I'll

gain. Last night, after 3 months of strict protein and veggies (and losing

another 24 pounds at 2 + years post op), I ate 3 white castle cheeseburgers,

with most of the buns. Today I got on the scale and I'm up 5 pounds from

yesterday. I know I didn't gain 5 pounds of fat, and I'm probably retaining

fluid from the saltiness of the food... but just a good example of how fickle

my body is. Here's an example of how I eat normally:

Breakfast: 3 cups of coffee with a little hazelnut creamer, maybe 2 eggs if

I'm hungry.

Lunch: a couple of slices of lunchmeat with fat free cream cheese wrapped

around pickles.

Snack: A handful of pistachios, or a piece of string cheese

Supper: 5 or so ounces of grilled fish, steamed vegetables

Snack: A couple pieces of string cheese.

I eat about 800 calories a day normally this way, with less than 20 grams of

carbohydrates. At this rate, I lose about a pound a week. I don't exercise

other than walking that I do at work (which is a big part of my job

normally). My thoughts on your situation is that you should be careful

because you'll soon be able to eat larger quantities of food... and if you're

not used to monitoring your " grams " , it could easily get away from you.

Maybe it will never be a concern for you, but it was for me.

good luck

sarah s minneapolis

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/10/03 2:19:05 PM Central Standard Time,

loriowen@... writes:

<< Okay, in the normal diet, I was seeing lunchmeat, cheese, nuts, and

grilled fish all of which is protein. So are you really asking where is

the protein or where is the beef? (pun intended)

Lori Owen - Denton, Texas >>

----------------------------

Maybe she meant " where are the protein shakes? "

Carol A

[Guest guest]

Hey everyone!

I don't post much but try to stay up with everyone as best as I can.

I had WLS 14½ months ago. I lost 156 lbs., reached my goal in 11 months,

and have maintained a 3-4 lb range every since. My question is - will it

become harder for me to maintain as time goes by, or will this be the norm

for me? I have read a lot of you talking about cutting out carbs, counting

this and that, etc., and I honestly don't do any of that. I don't even

exercise like I should. The only thing I do is try to focus on eating my

protein first when I have a meal. Period. That's it. I don't count grams

of anything, don't do protein drinks, I even eat what many of you would

consider way too many carbs every day, but my weight is consistent, and I

really don't have any problems. It's kind of spooky to me. Am I just

kidding myself? Will it all change and catch up with me eventually, or

should I just be happy and glad I can eat the way I do, and go on with life?

Here's a typical day for me. I know it looks bad, but I can't get away

from thinking it can't be all that bad, it seems to be working.

I take a FiberCon first thing every morn.

Breakfast - normally don't eat breakfast. Will have a couple of cups of

decaf coffee with cream.

(I drink weak, decaf, unsweet iced tea, all day, everyday)

Lunch - I eat lunch whenever I get hungry - usually between noon and 2pm.

1/2 - 3/4 sandwich (2 slices cheese, and turkey or chicken on wheat bread)

small bag of potato chips

a couple of cookies

Afternoon snack - this varies, but alot of times I will grab a can of mixed

nuts to eat at my desk, or string cheese, or crackers.

Dinner - It's whatever I am fixing but it's usually a meat, red beans or

potatoes, and maybe a couple of bites of green veggie. Last night I had 2

pcs. of fried chicken, a couple of tablespoons of mashed potatoes, and a

small corn on the cob.

I almost always have a snack about 2 hours after we eat dinner. Sometimes

it is popcorn, trail mix, or a lot of times I will grab a handfull of Ritz

crackers and some string cheese. Last night I had 2 Smores (graham

crackers with chocolate and marshmallow)

That's it. I know it looks bad, but how am I able to maintain my weight so

well if it's all that bad? I did gain about 6 lbs during the holidays. I

was eating all those sweet Christmas goodies non-stop. But I have already

lost that, and am back to where I was before the holidays.

BTW, I take 2 multivitamins, 2 Citracal, a B-1, and sometimes a B-12 each

day. That's it. So am I playing with fire, or am I just lucky? It just

seems too easy.

I followed the rules more closely while I was losing the weight, but pretty

much ate whatever I wanted, whenever I wanted, all along. I just didn't

drink with my meals, or eat too fast, etc. I have pretty much been eating

carbs since the day I came home from the hospital.

Any input from you oldtimers would be appreciated.

D

open RNY 10/18/01

290/135/maintaining goal weight

[Guest guest]

Call me crazy and insane, but if it is working for you why fix it? I

keep thinking about my skinny friends. Even they sometimes have to

adjust their eating habits (almost said diet) because of weight gain.

And it seems to get harder the older you get (metabolisms slows down.)

But that is really part of " being normal. " So if what you are doing is

working why fix it.

Lori Owen - Denton, Texas

CHF 4/14/01 479 lbs.

SRVG 7/16/01 401 lbs.

Current Weight 339.5 lbs. and loosing again

Dr. Ritter/Dr. Bryce

On Fri, 10 Jan 2003 10:10:23 -0600 dulcidog dulcidog@...> writes:

> Hey everyone!

> I don't post much but try to stay up with everyone as best as I

> can.

>

> I had WLS 14½ months ago. I lost 156 lbs., reached my goal in 11

> months,

> and have maintained a 3-4 lb range every since. My question is -

> will it

> become harder for me to maintain as time goes by, or will this be

> the norm

> for me? I have read a lot of you talking about cutting out carbs,

> counting

> this and that, etc., and I honestly don't do any of that. I don't

> even

> exercise like I should. The only thing I do is try to focus on

> eating my

> protein first when I have a meal. Period. That's it. I don't

> count grams

> of anything, don't do protein drinks, I even eat what many of you

> would

> consider way too many carbs every day, but my weight is consistent,

> and I

> really don't have any problems. It's kind of spooky to me. Am I

> just

> kidding myself? Will it all change and catch up with me eventually,

> or

> should I just be happy and glad I can eat the way I do, and go on

> with life?

>

> Here's a typical day for me. I know it looks bad, but I can't get

> away

> from thinking it can't be all that bad, it seems to be working.

>

> I take a FiberCon first thing every morn.

> Breakfast - normally don't eat breakfast. Will have a couple of

> cups of

> decaf coffee with cream.

>

> (I drink weak, decaf, unsweet iced tea, all day, everyday)

>

> Lunch - I eat lunch whenever I get hungry - usually between noon and

> 2pm.

> 1/2 - 3/4 sandwich (2 slices cheese, and turkey or chicken

> on wheat bread)

> small bag of potato chips

> a couple of cookies

>

> Afternoon snack - this varies, but alot of times I will grab a can

> of mixed

> nuts to eat at my desk, or string cheese, or crackers.

>

> Dinner - It's whatever I am fixing but it's usually a meat, red

> beans or

> potatoes, and maybe a couple of bites of green veggie. Last night I

> had 2

> pcs. of fried chicken, a couple of tablespoons of mashed potatoes,

> and a

> small corn on the cob.

>

> I almost always have a snack about 2 hours after we eat dinner.

> Sometimes

> it is popcorn, trail mix, or a lot of times I will grab a handfull

> of Ritz

> crackers and some string cheese. Last night I had 2 Smores (graham

>

> crackers with chocolate and marshmallow)

>

> That's it. I know it looks bad, but how am I able to maintain my

> weight so

> well if it's all that bad? I did gain about 6 lbs during the

> holidays. I

> was eating all those sweet Christmas goodies non-stop. But I have

> already

> lost that, and am back to where I was before the holidays.

>

> BTW, I take 2 multivitamins, 2 Citracal, a B-1, and sometimes a B-12

> each

> day. That's it. So am I playing with fire, or am I just lucky? It

> just

> seems too easy.

>

> I followed the rules more closely while I was losing the weight, but

> pretty

> much ate whatever I wanted, whenever I wanted, all along. I just

> didn't

> drink with my meals, or eat too fast, etc. I have pretty much been

> eating

> carbs since the day I came home from the hospital.

>

> Any input from you oldtimers would be appreciated.

>

> D

> open RNY 10/18/01

> 290/135/maintaining goal weight

>

>

> Homepage: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Graduate-OSSG

>

> Unsubscribe: mailto:Graduate-OSSG-unsubscribe

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Well, in a sense you ARE playing with fire, but you seem to be quite

effective at monitoring yourself, and realizing what your limitations are.

I, like you, eat pretty much what I want, but in moderation. If I crave

carbs, I eat carbs. I tend to eat a lot of veggies, but not a lot of meat.

On the other hand, my body tells me that I need protein, and I compensate

with cheese. I don't do much fried food (and consequently, my husband eats

healthier too!) When he met me, he didn't think much of my roasted chicken

and green veggie diet. But, I season a lot with herbs and such, and he

quit telling me he didn't like this or that...because now he does like this

and that. We don't eat a lot of bread, but I bake bread once a week, so I

know exactly what goes in it. I buy bakery grade bread flour, use olive oil

and honey in it, and cut the salt down. It's very healthy bread. My opinion

is, if you find your weight creeping up, increase your activity level before

you start trying to cut things out. That is as simple as taking a 15 minute

walk after dinner. I don't have to do that, fortunately, but I have a farm.

LOL. My biggest problem, especially in the summer, when I get out and start

working my horses (I have 20), is that I FORGET to eat. At one point, when I

was showing seriously on the national level, I got down to 125 lbs. Now,

that may not sound so catastrophic to most of you, but I'm 5'10, and I

looked like I was dead and just forgot to lie down. My husband now calls me

several times a day and asks, " what did you eat? " Damn. I just now realized

how lucky I am. Isn't it funny...once upon a time (over 20 years ago),

food was my life. Now, I have to have someone to tell me to eat.

Jac

mailto:jholdaway@...

http://www.pictureitdigitaldesigns.com/

http://members.cox.net/xxxfarmpaints

[Guest guest]

But where is the protein?

Thanks,

Vitalady, Inc. T

www.vitalady.com

If you are interested in PayPal, please click here:

https://secure.paypal.com/affil/pal=vitalady%40bigfoot.com

Re: am I playing with fire?

> Not everyone has to be so strict about their diet. I am jealous somewhat,

> because I'm one of those who has to watch every single gram of food I put

in

> my mouth. No cookies, No chips, NO fried ANYTHING, EVER. If I do, I will

> get sick... and even if I ate a small enough quantity to not get sick,

I'll

> gain. Last night, after 3 months of strict protein and veggies (and

losing

> another 24 pounds at 2 + years post op), I ate 3 white castle

cheeseburgers,

> with most of the buns. Today I got on the scale and I'm up 5 pounds from

> yesterday. I know I didn't gain 5 pounds of fat, and I'm probably

retaining

> fluid from the saltiness of the food... but just a good example of how

fickle

> my body is. Here's an example of how I eat normally:

>

> Breakfast: 3 cups of coffee with a little hazelnut creamer, maybe 2 eggs

if

> I'm hungry.

>

> Lunch: a couple of slices of lunchmeat with fat free cream cheese wrapped

> around pickles.

>

> Snack: A handful of pistachios, or a piece of string cheese

>

> Supper: 5 or so ounces of grilled fish, steamed vegetables

>

> Snack: A couple pieces of string cheese.

>

> I eat about 800 calories a day normally this way, with less than 20 grams

of

> carbohydrates. At this rate, I lose about a pound a week. I don't

exercise

> other than walking that I do at work (which is a big part of my job

> normally). My thoughts on your situation is that you should be careful

> because you'll soon be able to eat larger quantities of food... and if

you're

> not used to monitoring your " grams " , it could easily get away from you.

> Maybe it will never be a concern for you, but it was for me.

>

>

> good luck

> sarah s minneapolis

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/10/2003 5:04:00 PM Eastern Standard Time,

meltingheart@... writes:

> Herein is the problem however. Right now you are

> eating pretty much what you want and maintaining well,

> however, in my case as well as others in my support

> group you will find that things become harder with

> time.

*****************************

Otherwise known as " The Wall. "

in NJ

[Guest guest]

Okay, in the normal diet, I was seeing lunchmeat, cheese, nuts, and

grilled fish all of which is protein. So are you really asking where is

the protein or where is the beef? (pun intended)

Lori Owen - Denton, Texas

CHF 4/14/01 479 lbs.

SRVG 7/16/01 401 lbs.

Current Weight 339.5 lbs. and loosing again

Dr. Ritter/Dr. Bryce

On Fri, 10 Jan 2003 12:02:42 -0600 " Vitalady " vitalady@...>

writes:

> But where is the protein?

> Thanks,

>

>

> Vitalady, Inc. T

> www.vitalady.com

> > Breakfast: 3 cups of coffee with a little hazelnut creamer, maybe

> 2 eggs if I'm hungry.

> >

> > Lunch: a couple of slices of lunchmeat with fat free cream cheese

> wrapped around pickles.

> >

> > Snack: A handful of pistachios, or a piece of string cheese

> >

> > Supper: 5 or so ounces of grilled fish, steamed vegetables

> >

> > Snack: A couple pieces of string cheese.

> >

> > I eat about 800 calories a day normally this way, with less than

[Guest guest]

Oh, well there is that. Okay, I am being very intellectual today so

please forgive me if I am a little dingy or blunt today. Lori O.

On Fri, 10 Jan 2003 15:26:08 EST Tuesdynite@... writes:

> Maybe she meant " where are the protein shakes? "

>

> Carol A

>

>

[Guest guest]

Oh no not THE WALL? Alright, I am being just really dingy between the

wall and wanting to know where the beef is. Think it might be the

wellbutrin working already? I won't complain if no one else does.

Lori Owen - Denton, Texas

CHF 4/14/01 479 lbs.

SRVG 7/16/01 401 lbs.

Current Weight 339.5 lbs. and loosing again

Dr. Ritter/Dr. Bryce

On Fri, 10 Jan 2003 18:29:51 EST watnext@... writes:

> Otherwise known as " The Wall. "

>

> in NJ

[Guest guest]

>>My question is - will it

become harder for me to maintain as time goes by, or will this be the norm

for me? I have read a lot of you talking about cutting out carbs, counting

this and that, etc., and I honestly don't do any of that.

In my opinion, yes, you are playing with fire. Some people will say, if it's

working don't mess with it, but at only 14-15 months out, I could eat like

you do and still lose weight. But a few crackers got to be more crackers, a

cookie now and then got to be several cookies, and slowly, I could eat more

and more, and I ate mostly carbs -- chips, crackers, cookies -- and then I

stopped my protein shakes. I never made it to goal, though I was getting

there, and then I started going back up. I lost over 200#, and I probably

didn't start to really gain until I was almost 2 years out, but gain I

did -- 50 pounds back, enough to put me back into the Morbidly Obese scale

on the BMI chart. I got back to where some people start.

It's a small, creeping sort of increase in food, especially carbs, that can

lead to disaster. And I notice you're not adding protein shakes -- I truly

believe this is where you will find yourself in trouble, as you will crave

more food to make up for the nutrition you're not getting, and the more you

eat nutrition-less foods, the more you will crave and eat, a vicious circle.

I'm in the midst of a struggle to get back down to where I was, and I have

to fight now for every pound. Take my advice, and dump the cookies, the

crackers, the chips, and get some good protein. Your body will thank you

years from now. I won't say NEVER have these foods, but don't make them the

daily habit they are now, or you will stop losing (very likely) and see a

re-gain that will blindside you.

In friendship ~~ Lyn G

[Guest guest]

Thank you for saying what I didn't have the courage to say. I hear

myself tell all the newbies on other sites to get in plenty of protein,

get plenty of fluids, everything in moderation, stay away from the carbs.

I sometimes have trouble practicing what I preach at 1 1/2 years out.

It is also why I haven't lost more.

Lori Owen - Denton, Texas

CHF 4/14/01 479 lbs.

SRVG 7/16/01 401 lbs.

Current Weight 339.5 lbs. and loosing again

Dr. Ritter/Dr. Bryce

On Fri, 10 Jan 2003 17:32:42 -0800 " Butterflye " butterflye@...>

writes:

>

> In my opinion, yes, you are playing with fire. Some people will say,

> if it's

> working don't mess with it, but at only 14-15 months out, I could

> eat like

> you do and still lose weight. But a few crackers got to be more

> crackers, a

> cookie now and then got to be several cookies, and slowly, I could

> eat more

> and more, and I ate mostly carbs -- chips, crackers, cookies -- and

> then I

> stopped my protein shakes. I never made it to goal, though I was

> getting

> there, and then I started going back up. I lost over 200#, and I

> probably

> didn't start to really gain until I was almost 2 years out, but gain

> I

> did -- 50 pounds back, enough to put me back into the Morbidly Obese

> scale

> on the BMI chart. I got back to where some people start.

>

> It's a small, creeping sort of increase in food, especially carbs,

> that can

> lead to disaster. And I notice you're not adding protein shakes -- I

> truly

> believe this is where you will find yourself in trouble, as you will

> crave

> more food to make up for the nutrition you're not getting, and the

> more you

> eat nutrition-less foods, the more you will crave and eat, a vicious

> circle.

>

> I'm in the midst of a struggle to get back down to where I was, and

> I have

> to fight now for every pound. Take my advice, and dump the cookies,

> the

> crackers, the chips, and get some good protein. Your body will thank

> you

> years from now. I won't say NEVER have these foods, but don't make

> them the

> daily habit they are now, or you will stop losing (very likely) and

> see a

> re-gain that will blindside you.

>

> In friendship ~~ Lyn G

>

>

> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Graduate-OSSG

>

> Unsubscribe: mailto:Graduate-OSSG-unsubscribe

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I am so glad that this question was asked. I have been wondering the

same thing. I had Lap-RNY 27 months ago. I have lost 195 lbs. My

personal goal was to lose 200 lbs. I have had a steady weight loss. I

lost 5 lbs last month over the holidays. I eat similar to .

Some typical meals are:

Breakfast:1 egg,2 pcs turkey bacon or Healthy Choice sausage

Or 2 pcs string cheese and 1 pkg peanut butter crackers, 3 cups reg

black coffee

Lunch: 1 pc of bread w 3 oz meat or tuna or cheese

and a sm bag of chips (1 oz)

I often have egg, tuna or chicken salad (made w reg mayo) on crackers

Dinner: 1/2 c soup, 3 oz or more of meat, 2 spoons of potatoes or

pasta, 1/2 c veggies

Night snack: such as 1 c of cut up fruit, an orange, 1 cookie, or nuts

Sometimes my portions are bigger than other times. I never measure. I

eat out often and enjoy quite a variety of foods. If I get fried

chicken, I don't eat the breading or skin. I lightly breaded fried

shrimp. I eat broiled fish. I can eat most meats, roast beef, hamburger,

ham, chicken, turkey, hot dogs. I don't eat fast food. I ocassionally

eat 2 pcs of pizza for a meal.

I have a protein shake once every couple weeks. I take vitamins and

calcium citrate. I get a B-12 shot every month. I take Vioxx for

arthritis. I have bloodwork done every 6 mos. My labs have been good.

I get my exercise through walking, mostly shopping or looking around

the stores. I can do this for 5 hours or more at a time, 3 or 4 times a

week. I also visit the hospital once a week walking in the halls. In the

summer I exercise in my pool daily or walk on the boardwalk.

My surgeon said he did not operate on me so that I could diet the rest

of my life. He told me to eat what I wanted. My pouch would let me know

what not to eat. It does....as sometimes I get dumping, big time and

just a little at times, mostly from carbs. I take tastes of sweets, 2

bites, enough to satisfy the desire. There are times I get diarrhea or

bad gas. I don't vomit but sometimes wish I could to get rid of the

nausea. I get bad hiccups, and excess mucus.

I don't drink enough water....just mostly coffee and iced tea, no

carbonated drinks though.

I keep thinking this will all stop and my weight will come back. What do

you think????? Am I just another lucky one?? Is God really blessing me

this much??? I don't deserve it.

Sorry this is so long.

Sheila in South Jersey

[Guest guest]

Just a thought -- not all " eating healthy " food plans can be considered

dieting. I think most of us need to look at the health issues we had

previous to having surgery and to realize that " just loosing " the weight is

not a cure all for many of the co-morbidities we came to the table with and

that those issues in our health shouldn't be shrugged off lightly (I took

all the addy's off because I'm not talking to anyone particular -- just

sharing what I've had to do for my own health.)

I hit my goal weight really easy when I compare myself to some and harder

when I compare myself with others -- I probably could get off my shakes, eat

more of a " normal person " type of diet (not diet as in loose weight... I

just mean what regular people eat diet) and I'd probably do ok for a few

years in terms of my weight and size --

BUT, eventually my protein levels would crash (usually don't see that till

the 4-6 years post op) my calcium / bone loss would be noticeable sooner --

probably at 2-3 years -- Most importantly for me though is my heart health.

Runs on both sides of my family and granted, they do both sides have the

issue of " obesity " that adds to the problem of hardening arteries -- thin

people have the same disease so... I can't ignore it just because I lost the

weight.

Call it diet if you want to but I do have to stay on a heart healthy eating

plan or I'm not going to get and keep a healthy heart.... so my diet is more

restricted but not to stay thin, not because I don't want to eat like

" normal " but because I have an underlying disease that fat or thin has to be

addressed. This surgery has " allowed " me to learn to choose more wise in the

foods in my diet and gives me the control to stay on a heart healthy diet...

Others, IMO, really need to think about the " what health issues " we came to

the table with -- many who were insulin dependant do great for a couple of

years but if they don't change the " way " they eat I've also seen the

diabetes come back -- even though they are thin, if it has ya' -- it has ya'

and those kinds of things should be considered and adjusted for long term

health.

There are a lot of things I could do in the first year and still loose the

weight but none of those things were " good habits " to form and none of those

things would have been useful for my long term health. I believe the first

year is a time for forming life time habits because that will be the easiest

time for us to do that... because our whole health will depend on those

habits later and because no one is excluded from being able to out eat any

surgery eventually.

I don't think many surgeons realize that what a " normal " diet for us and

what a " normal diet " for " normal " people is often VERY different. I always

use my genetically small boned and thin husband as an example of a " normal "

person (right?) and if I ate like him -- even now, his " normal " diet I would

be huge as a blimp in a matter of months -- so, I have to question -- " WHAT

IS a normal diet????? "

I also have to always keep in the forefront of my mind that genetically I

am made up differently and as sure as I have brown eyes I am an obese woman

with my disease in remission for as long as " I " am responsible in my food

choices. I will never be a genetically thin person. I will never have a

genetically " good heart " no matter what size I am and I will always have to

make wise choices about my food because I can have my old body back any time

I forget where I came from.

Now, that's just me -- everyone is different and everyone comes to the

table with different issues -- I do hope we are all ready to consider and

keep in mind the health issues we have and understand that they are not just

" gone " because we are thin now... many of our issues are in remission but

most are not just " gone " forever... and when we are forming those habits we

should keep in mind that they need to be " healthy " for life... not dieting

(as in I have 10 more pounds to loose) type of diet but just " healthy "

habits to carry us through life... If I am not sure about having " this food "

as in incorporating it into my diet -- I ask myself... will this still be a

good choice when I am 5 years post op? 10 years post op? Will this food help

my health or hinder my health?

I've seen some food plans listed and I too wonder " where is the protein? "

Everyone has to supplement certain things when we agree to the by-pass and

we are willing to do without our duodenum then we have the trade-off of

using dry vitamins the used to be absorbed in our (now missing) duodenum and

one of those is protein -- In cancer research patients who have a missing

duodenum due to the cancer -- several studies note anywhere from 80% - 90%

of protein is absorbed there AFTER being digested in our old stomachs (which

we don't have anymore either) so it makes sense to me to send down protein

that is 1.) pre-digested and 2.) ready to be absorbed on further down the

line...

BUT -- ~smile~ that's my own personal understanding and choice and I'll

leave that to the longer term post-ops who have crashed and others who have

not to debate that issue :-) I've seen both over the years and I just

personally choose to put myself into the group that stands the least

possibility of crashing on down the line (being tube fed does NOT appeal to

me!!!) Being mal-nourished is scary to me. While I could probably get away

with NOT doing my shakes -- why would I? It, for me, is to big of a risk.

hugz,

~denise

[Guest guest]

This is not what I wanted to hear. I pretty much eat what I want. I find

limiting any food group will trigger a binge. I am hearing this protein

drink mantra. OK, OK. I'll try knocking out my carb monster by this route.

I have tried all the creamy ones, they make me gag. Got samples from

Vitalady, went to the nutrition stores, I've tried them all. The only ones

I can drink are the clear(ish) pre-mixed ones. Isopure, designer whey.

Like that. I never hear anything about these. Why is that? Are they the

wrong type of protein for us or is it the expense that knocks them out.

Thanks again, Oh Wise Ones.

Margie in New Mexico

RNY 9-7-01

252/135ish

Re: Am I playing with fire?

> >>My question is - will it

> become harder for me to maintain as time goes by, or will this be the norm

> for me? I have read a lot of you talking about cutting out carbs,

counting

> this and that, etc., and I honestly don't do any of that.

>

> In my opinion, yes, you are playing with fire. Some people will say, if

it's

> working don't mess with it, but at only 14-15 months out, I could eat like

> you do and still lose weight. But a few crackers got to be more crackers,

a

> cookie now and then got to be several cookies, and slowly, I could eat

more

> and more, and I ate mostly carbs -- chips, crackers, cookies -- and then I

> stopped my protein shakes. I never made it to goal, though I was getting

> there, and then I started going back up. I lost over 200#, and I probably

> didn't start to really gain until I was almost 2 years out, but gain I

> did -- 50 pounds back, enough to put me back into the Morbidly Obese scale

> on the BMI chart. I got back to where some people start.

>

> It's a small, creeping sort of increase in food, especially carbs, that

can

> lead to disaster. And I notice you're not adding protein shakes -- I truly

> believe this is where you will find yourself in trouble, as you will crave

> more food to make up for the nutrition you're not getting, and the more

you

> eat nutrition-less foods, the more you will crave and eat, a vicious

circle.

>

> I'm in the midst of a struggle to get back down to where I was, and I have

> to fight now for every pound. Take my advice, and dump the cookies, the

> crackers, the chips, and get some good protein. Your body will thank you

> years from now. I won't say NEVER have these foods, but don't make them

the

> daily habit they are now, or you will stop losing (very likely) and see a

> re-gain that will blindside you.

>

> In friendship ~~ Lyn G

>

>

> Homepage: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Graduate-OSSG

>

> Unsubscribe: mailto:Graduate-OSSG-unsubscribe

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

On Sat, 11 Jan 2003 07:41:03 -0600 " ~denise " datwell@...>

writes:

> I don't think many surgeons realize that what a " normal " diet

for us and

> what a " normal diet " for " normal " people is often VERY different. I

always

> use my genetically small boned and thin husband as an example of a

" normal "

> person (right?) and if I ate like him -- even now, his " normal " diet I

would

> be huge as a blimp in a matter of months -- so, I have to question --

" WHAT

> IS a normal diet????? "

,

Your whole e-mail made sense to me and hadn't really thought

about it. This part of your e-mail, however, really hit home. I keep

remembering my grandparents. My granddad is skinny as a toothpick, very

active, looks extremely healthy - always has. He could, for a long time,

eat half a gallon of ice cream before going to bed and never gain an

ounce. My grandmother always struggled with her weight. The mere

thought of ice cream and she gained ten pounds. My grandmother was very

much aware of her health problems and, for the most part, kept on top of

them. My granddad didn't think he had any health problems until he had

to have quadruple bypass about 17 years ago. The half a gallon of ice

cream before bed a couple of times a week finally caught up with him.

Personally, I have a family history of high cholesterol (and it

doesn't seem to matter what we eat), diabetes, and heart disease. My

cholesterol level improved tremendously after surgery because of things I

have eliminated from my diet but I still have to take meds. My

triglecerins and good cholesterol are now in normal range. It is my

total and bad cholesterol that are high. My diabetes is currently under

control but it is something I have to check constantly.

The totally frustrating thing for me is that I have a home-health

aide that is a country cook (pork, beef, bacon grease, fat type cooking

with all of the trimmings.) She has been trying to convince me that I

need to eat more beef and pork. I ate more then my fair share of both of

these prior to surgery. I can not tolerate either one on a regular basis

today and really don't miss it much. Every so often I get a craving for

beef or pork but not often. I can usually get my fix through ground

turkey. So choices are really important. It is something I keep having

to remind myself of.

Lori Owen - Denton, Texas

CHF 4/14/01 479 lbs.

SRVG 7/16/01 401 lbs.

Current Weight 339.5 lbs. and loosing again

Dr. Ritter/Dr. Bryce

[Guest guest]

Actually, I know several people who sweat by Isopure. If it works for

you, who could possibly complain.

Lori Owen - Denton, Texas

CHF 4/14/01 479 lbs.

SRVG 7/16/01 401 lbs.

Current Weight 339.5 lbs. and loosing again

Dr. Ritter/Dr. Bryce

On Sat, 11 Jan 2003 08:10:22 -0700 " Margie Whyman " mswhyman@...>

writes:

> This is not what I wanted to hear. I pretty much eat what I want. I

> find

> limiting any food group will trigger a binge. I am hearing this

> protein

> drink mantra. OK, OK. I'll try knocking out my carb monster by this

> route.

>

> I have tried all the creamy ones, they make me gag. Got samples

> from

> Vitalady, went to the nutrition stores, I've tried them all. The

> only ones

> I can drink are the clear(ish) pre-mixed ones. Isopure, designer

> whey.

> Like that. I never hear anything about these. Why is that? Are

> they the

> wrong type of protein for us or is it the expense that knocks them

> out.

>

> Thanks again, Oh Wise Ones.

> Margie in New Mexico

> RNY 9-7-01

> 252/135ish

>

>

> Re: Am I playing with fire?

>

>

> > >>My question is - will it

> > become harder for me to maintain as time goes by, or will this be

> the norm

> > for me? I have read a lot of you talking about cutting out

> carbs,

> counting

> > this and that, etc., and I honestly don't do any of that.

> >

> > In my opinion, yes, you are playing with fire. Some people will

> say, if

> it's

> > working don't mess with it, but at only 14-15 months out, I could

> eat like

> > you do and still lose weight. But a few crackers got to be more

> crackers,

> a

> > cookie now and then got to be several cookies, and slowly, I could

> eat

> more

> > and more, and I ate mostly carbs -- chips, crackers, cookies --

> and then I

> > stopped my protein shakes. I never made it to goal, though I was

> getting

> > there, and then I started going back up. I lost over 200#, and I

> probably

> > didn't start to really gain until I was almost 2 years out, but

> gain I

> > did -- 50 pounds back, enough to put me back into the Morbidly

> Obese scale

> > on the BMI chart. I got back to where some people start.

> >

> > It's a small, creeping sort of increase in food, especially carbs,

> that

> can

> > lead to disaster. And I notice you're not adding protein shakes --

> I truly

> > believe this is where you will find yourself in trouble, as you

> will crave

> > more food to make up for the nutrition you're not getting, and the

> more

> you

> > eat nutrition-less foods, the more you will crave and eat, a

> vicious

> circle.

> >

> > I'm in the midst of a struggle to get back down to where I was,

> and I have

> > to fight now for every pound. Take my advice, and dump the

> cookies, the

> > crackers, the chips, and get some good protein. Your body will

> thank you

> > years from now. I won't say NEVER have these foods, but don't make

> them

> the

> > daily habit they are now, or you will stop losing (very likely)

> and see a

> > re-gain that will blindside you.

> >

> > In friendship ~~ Lyn G

> >

> >

> > Homepage: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Graduate-OSSG

> >

> > Unsubscribe: mailto:Graduate-OSSG-unsubscribe

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi Tricia,

I agree that what you are doing now is working great for you but please be

careful as you are only 13 months out. I felt the exact same way as you at

that point. Then, a few months later, as my appetite started getting larger

and I started testing eating things I shouldn't, ie candy, cookies, etc.,

things changed. This happens for many of us.

Again, I hope this won't be the case for you but be aware that it can happen

so easily and so insidiously too.

We have already won when we believe it in our hearts.

ICQ: 67869779

AIM: joydenisek

> I am 13 months out...same story..I feel so incredibly lucky to have had

this surgery in the first place...I had to fight my insurance to pay, and

when I was approved I could not believe it...these things just do not happen

to me, I am destined to keep gaining weight and sinking further into ths

black hole! Yet, here I am 114 lbs lighter and pinching myself everyday...I

do not diet, count carbs or anything..I do not deny myself any type of food,

I just try to make better choices and not " binge " on any thing. I feel that

there are many things I could have done to acquire more weight loss, but I

am still losing..slowly and have never platued, yet..(I know, I just asked

for it, did'nt I?) I am happy with my life and my body. I know I cannot

" diet " .

> I do not know if Dr.Phil is banned in this group...but he always

asks.. " How's that working for you " ..well, it is working fine for me. I am

learning to stop feeling like I do not deserve this and that it will all

stop and I will gain back...I am trying to be positive and happy with this

wonderful tool I was given.

> For those of you like me who are having good results, but are not as

strict dietarywise as some are, stop beating yourself up and questioning

what is working for you....luckily we have the wisdom of the ages here to

use if and when we start to have issues with weight gain....If it aint

broke, DON'T BREAK IT!!!!

> best wishes for all of us!

> Tricia

[Guest guest]

I, too, have seen too many people in their " honeymoon " phase, or first year

or so so overjoyed at their weightloss and their ability to lose no matter

what they eat end up with a terrible regain after the 2 year wall hits

them...because they haven't learned proper eating habits in the first year.

That honeymoon period does end...and the work begins at a certain point, and

it is so hard for the ones that never had to work in the beginning. I'm

seeing too many with 20, 30 and 40 lb and more...regains after two

years...and wondering what hit them, not to mention the recurring health

difficulties...the osteoporosis, the reactive hypoglycemia that a lot of us

get even with hard work, and other things. It just isn't worth not

developing good habits when you have the opportunity. It's so much easier in

the beginning. Maintenance is a tough road to hoe, and I am speaking from

experience, being one that did develop good habits, it's still tough. But

I'm doing it. My good lab reports today vouch for that. I am in full

agreement with here. Once again...yeah...what said!!

Regards~

¨¨)) -:¦:-

¸.·´ .·´¨¨))

((¸¸.·´ ..·´ -:¦:- Jacque

-:¦:- ((¸¸.·´*

> Now, that's just me -- everyone is different and everyone comes to the

> table with different issues -- I do hope we are all ready to consider and

> keep in mind the health issues we have and understand that they are not

> just

> " gone " because we are thin now... many of our issues are in remission but

> most are not just " gone " forever... and when we are forming those habits we

> should keep in mind that they need to be " healthy " for life... not dieting

> (as in I have 10 more pounds to loose) type of diet but just " healthy "

> habits to carry us through life... If I am not sure about having " this

> food "

> as in incorporating it into my diet -- I ask myself... will this still be a

> good choice when I am 5 years post op? 10 years post op? Will this food

> help

> my health or hinder my health?

>

´

[Guest guest]

Dear Tricia, you just keep posting your valuable opinions and ideas. I love

hearing about how people are finding their own ways, maybe wandering a bit,

but then making corrections to their trajectories. I think it was clear what

you are saying and WE ALL are finding our ways as we go along. (And we all

tend to ramble too! so don't worry--grin) I have said it here until I am blue

in the face... (Oh boy, imagine ceep as charro painted blue--never

mind--grin) WE ARE THE PROTOTYPES; we are the 'experimental creatures' who

have taken a HUGE risk to regain health and longevity. We are ground

breakers, we are scouts, we are pathfinders. One hundred years from now we

will look as archaic as the suffragettes. (without whom no woman here would

be posting happily online anytime day or night, let alone allowed out of our

cages, er rooms...whether they be on the factory floor locked in, or in the

'gilded cage' of the 'drawing room.')

All this to say (see, i was rambling there Tricia. Grin) your comments were

valuable to me just as a person who likes to see others strive and learn and

find their own best way for themselves.

love,

ceep G0-MOM

In a message dated 1/12/03 7:35:56 AM, Graduate-OSSG writes:

<< I tend to ramble....and sometimes my meaning gets jumbled although I

always try to make sure people know, I am only saying what works for me.....I

do not suggest that anyone follow my plan.....I just heard my tapes being

played, and had to reach out and maybe help a little..so if anyone got the

Idea from my ramblings that I meant do not make good food choices and you

will be fine...I did not meant that! >>

[Guest guest]

>

> Herein is the problem however. Right now you are

> eating pretty much what you want and maintaining well,

> however, in my case as well as others in my support

> group you will find that things become harder with

> time. If you don't have a strong eating plan (ie

> healthy lifestyle choices, protein intake, vitamins

> etc) then one day you may hit that " oops my window is

> gone " or a stressful period or some type of life

> crisis and those indiscreet little nibbles of this or

> that may turn into two nibbles or three or more.....

> Melty~

*********************************************

As you stated, everyone has there own experience. During stressful times

prior to WLS, I ate for comfort. Post WLS, if I am truly stressed, I cannot

eat. My TOOL has been a Godsend in this area. No matter how well I chew,

food will not stay down. I have learned not to get so stressed about as much

with age, I think. If I am stressed, I must sit and relax my mind before

eating.

Dawn

[Guest guest]

So true ceep!!!! At Christmas one of my older sisters said " Oh My Gosh

, did you see that EVERYTHING is all about your bypass surgery?? You

are such a groundbreaker!! " She went on to list all of the things in my

life mostly diets, that I did years before the normal poplulation did,

Optifast, Atkin's, WLS! I have to admit though....it did make me a little

nervous to think that so many people are waiting to see just how we handle

it!!! And are relying on us to " figure it out. " P.

Re: Am I playing with fire?

> Dear Tricia, you just keep posting your valuable opinions and ideas. I

love

> hearing about how people are finding their own ways, maybe wandering a

bit,

> but then making corrections to their trajectories. I think it was clear

what

> you are saying and WE ALL are finding our ways as we go along. (And we all

> tend to ramble too! so don't worry--grin) I have said it here until I am

blue

> in the face... (Oh boy, imagine ceep as charro painted blue--never

> mind--grin) WE ARE THE PROTOTYPES; we are the 'experimental creatures' who

> have taken a HUGE risk to regain health and longevity. We are ground

> breakers, we are scouts, we are pathfinders. One hundred years from now we

> will look as archaic as the suffragettes. (without whom no woman here

would

> be posting happily online anytime day or night, let alone allowed out of

our

> cages, er rooms...whether they be on the factory floor locked in, or in

the

> 'gilded cage' of the 'drawing room.')

>

> All this to say (see, i was rambling there Tricia. Grin) your comments

were

> valuable to me just as a person who likes to see others strive and learn

and

> find their own best way for themselves.

> love,

> ceep G0-MOM

>

> In a message dated 1/12/03 7:35:56 AM, Graduate-OSSG

writes:

>

> << I tend to ramble....and sometimes my meaning gets jumbled although I

> always try to make sure people know, I am only saying what works for

me.....I

> do not suggest that anyone follow my plan.....I just heard my tapes being

> played, and had to reach out and maybe help a little..so if anyone got the

> Idea from my ramblings that I meant do not make good food choices and you

> will be fine...I did not meant that! >>

>

>

> Homepage: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Graduate-OSSG

>

> Unsubscribe: mailto:Graduate-OSSG-unsubscribe

>

>

>

>

>