Re: bifidus and recolonization

[Guest guest]

http://littlebritchesboutique.com/temp/intestinalflora.pdf

This interesting. Elaine mentions this article in her discussion of

bifidus.

Robbie

bifidus and recolonization

>I have a question regarding bifidus. I know Elaine said not to take

> supplements or make yogurt with this probiotic because it has a tendency

> to overgrow. However, bifidus is the one of the main bacteria in our

> large intestines. If we have been on broad-spectrum antibiotics, how is

> bifidus going to get down there if we only take acidophulus species?

> (Which are mostly small intestine colonizers, but do have some benefit

> in the large.) When we are breastfed, we are colonized almost entirely

> with bifidus infantalis. I'm wondering if a short course of probiotics

> including bifidus would get them in there, then switching to just

> acidopholus for long-term maintenance would be more effective.

>

> I had broad-spectrum antibiotics, and have been taking large doses of

> Lyosan, and eating a lot of yogurt, and recently started sacchromysis

> boulardii. I had an improved bowel movement 2 days ago, (after over 2

> weeks of everything but s.boullardii, which I've been taking for almost

> a week) hardly normal though, but then I ate some peanut butter cake,

> and had diarrhea the next day. This morning's BM is back to puddle

> consistency. I'm wondering if I should be supplementing with a

> probiotic that recolonizes both small and large intestine, in order to

> improve. Because without bifidus, how is our large intestine supposed

> to be normalized? Does anyone know why Elaine approved of s.boulardii?

> I don't know if the intro diet plus what I'm doing is going to have an

> effect, and am tempted to take a probiotic that provides species for

> both large and small intestines. Does anyone understand how bifidus

> gets back into our large intestine, if it is wiped out with antibiotics,

> and not recolonized? Should I just pretend like I am at the very

> beginning of the diet again, and expect that it might takes weeks, even

> months before my bacteria species are back to normal?

>

> Debora

> CD 17 years

> SCD 2 years, 5 months

> flare-up from IV broad-spectrum antibiotics

> sulfasalazine, Lyosan, intro diet, s.boullardii; very little effect

>

>

>

> For information on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, please read the book

> _Breaking the Vicious Cycle_ by Elaine Gottschall and read the following

> websites:

> http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info

> and

> http://www.pecanbread.com

>

>

[Guest guest]

http://littlebritchesboutique.com/temp/intestinalflora.pdf

This interesting. Elaine mentions this article in her discussion of

bifidus.

Robbie

bifidus and recolonization

>I have a question regarding bifidus. I know Elaine said not to take

> supplements or make yogurt with this probiotic because it has a tendency

> to overgrow. However, bifidus is the one of the main bacteria in our

> large intestines. If we have been on broad-spectrum antibiotics, how is

> bifidus going to get down there if we only take acidophulus species?

> (Which are mostly small intestine colonizers, but do have some benefit

> in the large.) When we are breastfed, we are colonized almost entirely

> with bifidus infantalis. I'm wondering if a short course of probiotics

> including bifidus would get them in there, then switching to just

> acidopholus for long-term maintenance would be more effective.

>

> I had broad-spectrum antibiotics, and have been taking large doses of

> Lyosan, and eating a lot of yogurt, and recently started sacchromysis

> boulardii. I had an improved bowel movement 2 days ago, (after over 2

> weeks of everything but s.boullardii, which I've been taking for almost

> a week) hardly normal though, but then I ate some peanut butter cake,

> and had diarrhea the next day. This morning's BM is back to puddle

> consistency. I'm wondering if I should be supplementing with a

> probiotic that recolonizes both small and large intestine, in order to

> improve. Because without bifidus, how is our large intestine supposed

> to be normalized? Does anyone know why Elaine approved of s.boulardii?

> I don't know if the intro diet plus what I'm doing is going to have an

> effect, and am tempted to take a probiotic that provides species for

> both large and small intestines. Does anyone understand how bifidus

> gets back into our large intestine, if it is wiped out with antibiotics,

> and not recolonized? Should I just pretend like I am at the very

> beginning of the diet again, and expect that it might takes weeks, even

> months before my bacteria species are back to normal?

>

> Debora

> CD 17 years

> SCD 2 years, 5 months

> flare-up from IV broad-spectrum antibiotics

> sulfasalazine, Lyosan, intro diet, s.boullardii; very little effect

>

>

>

> For information on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, please read the book

> _Breaking the Vicious Cycle_ by Elaine Gottschall and read the following

> websites:

> http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info

> and

> http://www.pecanbread.com

>

>

[Guest guest]

Also, as a side note - because you flared after antibiotics, you could have

a yeast problem, which would be aggrivated by the honey in the baked goods.

Maybe oil of oregano would help in that area... we take protocel for yeast

and it has done wonders for us, but it's not a product that is well known on

this board... so if you want info on it I would be happy to share off board,

but the oil of oregano is well known here and many can answer questions

about it.

's last flare was due primarily to yeast after he overloaded on a bunch

of raw fruit - which is why I can comment on this. The boullari (sp?) could

be helping with the yeast, which might be why you saw improvement and then

regression after the honey sweetened baked goods. My son did not tolerate

the boullari by the way.

Robbie

Mom to UC - scd since 6/04 in full remission.

bifidus and recolonization

>I have a question regarding bifidus. I know Elaine said not to take

> supplements or make yogurt with this probiotic because it has a tendency

> to overgrow. However, bifidus is the one of the main bacteria in our

> large intestines. If we have been on broad-spectrum antibiotics, how is

> bifidus going to get down there if we only take acidophulus species?

> (Which are mostly small intestine colonizers, but do have some benefit

> in the large.) When we are breastfed, we are colonized almost entirely

> with bifidus infantalis. I'm wondering if a short course of probiotics

> including bifidus would get them in there, then switching to just

> acidopholus for long-term maintenance would be more effective.

>

> I had broad-spectrum antibiotics, and have been taking large doses of

> Lyosan, and eating a lot of yogurt, and recently started sacchromysis

> boulardii. I had an improved bowel movement 2 days ago, (after over 2

> weeks of everything but s.boullardii, which I've been taking for almost

> a week) hardly normal though, but then I ate some peanut butter cake,

> and had diarrhea the next day. This morning's BM is back to puddle

> consistency. I'm wondering if I should be supplementing with a

> probiotic that recolonizes both small and large intestine, in order to

> improve. Because without bifidus, how is our large intestine supposed

> to be normalized? Does anyone know why Elaine approved of s.boulardii?

> I don't know if the intro diet plus what I'm doing is going to have an

> effect, and am tempted to take a probiotic that provides species for

> both large and small intestines. Does anyone understand how bifidus

> gets back into our large intestine, if it is wiped out with antibiotics,

> and not recolonized? Should I just pretend like I am at the very

> beginning of the diet again, and expect that it might takes weeks, even

> months before my bacteria species are back to normal?

>

> Debora

> CD 17 years

> SCD 2 years, 5 months

> flare-up from IV broad-spectrum antibiotics

> sulfasalazine, Lyosan, intro diet, s.boullardii; very little effect

>

>

>

> For information on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, please read the book

> _Breaking the Vicious Cycle_ by Elaine Gottschall and read the following

> websites:

> http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info

> and

> http://www.pecanbread.com

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Debora,

>

> I have a question regarding bifidus. I know Elaine said not to

take

> supplements or make yogurt with this probiotic because it has a

tendency

> to overgrow. However, bifidus is the one of the main bacteria in

our

> large intestines. If we have been on broad-spectrum antibiotics,

how is

> bifidus going to get down there if we only take acidophulus

species?

When you take antibiotics you don't kill *all* the bacteria in your

body - you just kill a lot. The problem with bifidum is that when

you have a situation like this it says " yippee " plenty of room for

me and goes nuts and takes over. Many people on SCD have had this

problem (self included). I think in healthy individuals various

bacteria are kept in good balance with each other. That's why

Elaine liked the L. acidophilus it doesn't tend to overgrow like

Bifidum. Same with the other bacteria in the yogurt (S.

thermophilus, L. bulgaricus) they are good bacteria. They don't

want to be in control they just want things to work good in the

body. When they are filling up " space " in the body they will

gradually allow the body's natural diverse population of bacteria to

reestablish itself. The GI Prohealth also has L. casei which is

another good bacteria. Another source of good guy bacteria is

homemade sauerkraut (L. plantarum).

> (Which are mostly small intestine colonizers, but do have some

benefit

> in the large.) When we are breastfed, we are colonized almost

entirely

> with bifidus infantalis.

I believe that b. intalis is a transitory bacteria that is great

when you are an infant but gradually makes way for a greater variety

of bacteria. As you grow older you are subject to different foods

etc. and need greater protection.

I'm wondering if a short course of probiotics

> including bifidus would get them in there, then switching to just

> acidopholus for long-term maintenance would be more effective.

>

> I had broad-spectrum antibiotics, and have been taking large doses

of

> Lyosan, and eating a lot of yogurt, and recently started

sacchromysis

> boulardii. I had an improved bowel movement 2 days ago, (after

over 2

> weeks of everything but s.boullardii, which I've been taking for

almost

> a week) hardly normal though, but then I ate some peanut butter

cake,

> and had diarrhea the next day. This morning's BM is back to puddle

> consistency.

Peanut butter is a more advanced food. Pecans and blanched almonds

ground into nut flour or nut butter would be easier to digest.

see http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/pecanbread/message/40655

I'm wondering if I should be supplementing with a

> probiotic that recolonizes both small and large intestine, in

order to

> improve. Because without bifidus, how is our large intestine

supposed

> to be normalized? Does anyone know why Elaine approved of

s.boulardii?

It was found to be helpful for a number of people battling C. diff.

Sheila

[Guest guest]

Hi Debora,

>

> I have a question regarding bifidus. I know Elaine said not to

take

> supplements or make yogurt with this probiotic because it has a

tendency

> to overgrow. However, bifidus is the one of the main bacteria in

our

> large intestines. If we have been on broad-spectrum antibiotics,

how is

> bifidus going to get down there if we only take acidophulus

species?

When you take antibiotics you don't kill *all* the bacteria in your

body - you just kill a lot. The problem with bifidum is that when

you have a situation like this it says " yippee " plenty of room for

me and goes nuts and takes over. Many people on SCD have had this

problem (self included). I think in healthy individuals various

bacteria are kept in good balance with each other. That's why

Elaine liked the L. acidophilus it doesn't tend to overgrow like

Bifidum. Same with the other bacteria in the yogurt (S.

thermophilus, L. bulgaricus) they are good bacteria. They don't

want to be in control they just want things to work good in the

body. When they are filling up " space " in the body they will

gradually allow the body's natural diverse population of bacteria to

reestablish itself. The GI Prohealth also has L. casei which is

another good bacteria. Another source of good guy bacteria is

homemade sauerkraut (L. plantarum).

> (Which are mostly small intestine colonizers, but do have some

benefit

> in the large.) When we are breastfed, we are colonized almost

entirely

> with bifidus infantalis.

I believe that b. intalis is a transitory bacteria that is great

when you are an infant but gradually makes way for a greater variety

of bacteria. As you grow older you are subject to different foods

etc. and need greater protection.

I'm wondering if a short course of probiotics

> including bifidus would get them in there, then switching to just

> acidopholus for long-term maintenance would be more effective.

>

> I had broad-spectrum antibiotics, and have been taking large doses

of

> Lyosan, and eating a lot of yogurt, and recently started

sacchromysis

> boulardii. I had an improved bowel movement 2 days ago, (after

over 2

> weeks of everything but s.boullardii, which I've been taking for

almost

> a week) hardly normal though, but then I ate some peanut butter

cake,

> and had diarrhea the next day. This morning's BM is back to puddle

> consistency.

Peanut butter is a more advanced food. Pecans and blanched almonds

ground into nut flour or nut butter would be easier to digest.

see http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/pecanbread/message/40655

I'm wondering if I should be supplementing with a

> probiotic that recolonizes both small and large intestine, in

order to

> improve. Because without bifidus, how is our large intestine

supposed

> to be normalized? Does anyone know why Elaine approved of

s.boulardii?

It was found to be helpful for a number of people battling C. diff.

Sheila

[Guest guest]

Hi Debora,

>

> I have a question regarding bifidus. I know Elaine said not to

take

> supplements or make yogurt with this probiotic because it has a

tendency

> to overgrow. However, bifidus is the one of the main bacteria in

our

> large intestines. If we have been on broad-spectrum antibiotics,

how is

> bifidus going to get down there if we only take acidophulus

species?

When you take antibiotics you don't kill *all* the bacteria in your

body - you just kill a lot. The problem with bifidum is that when

you have a situation like this it says " yippee " plenty of room for

me and goes nuts and takes over. Many people on SCD have had this

problem (self included). I think in healthy individuals various

bacteria are kept in good balance with each other. That's why

Elaine liked the L. acidophilus it doesn't tend to overgrow like

Bifidum. Same with the other bacteria in the yogurt (S.

thermophilus, L. bulgaricus) they are good bacteria. They don't

want to be in control they just want things to work good in the

body. When they are filling up " space " in the body they will

gradually allow the body's natural diverse population of bacteria to

reestablish itself. The GI Prohealth also has L. casei which is

another good bacteria. Another source of good guy bacteria is

homemade sauerkraut (L. plantarum).

> (Which are mostly small intestine colonizers, but do have some

benefit

> in the large.) When we are breastfed, we are colonized almost

entirely

> with bifidus infantalis.

I believe that b. intalis is a transitory bacteria that is great

when you are an infant but gradually makes way for a greater variety

of bacteria. As you grow older you are subject to different foods

etc. and need greater protection.

I'm wondering if a short course of probiotics

> including bifidus would get them in there, then switching to just

> acidopholus for long-term maintenance would be more effective.

>

> I had broad-spectrum antibiotics, and have been taking large doses

of

> Lyosan, and eating a lot of yogurt, and recently started

sacchromysis

> boulardii. I had an improved bowel movement 2 days ago, (after

over 2

> weeks of everything but s.boullardii, which I've been taking for

almost

> a week) hardly normal though, but then I ate some peanut butter

cake,

> and had diarrhea the next day. This morning's BM is back to puddle

> consistency.

Peanut butter is a more advanced food. Pecans and blanched almonds

ground into nut flour or nut butter would be easier to digest.

see http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/pecanbread/message/40655

I'm wondering if I should be supplementing with a

> probiotic that recolonizes both small and large intestine, in

order to

> improve. Because without bifidus, how is our large intestine

supposed

> to be normalized? Does anyone know why Elaine approved of

s.boulardii?

It was found to be helpful for a number of people battling C. diff.

Sheila

[Guest guest]

> . The problem with bifidum is that when

> you have a situation like this it says " yippee " plenty of room for

> me and goes nuts and takes over. Many people on SCD have had this

> problem (self included).

Did your problem evolve over time, meaning did you take the bifidus for

a long time before you experienced negatives? Considering the colon is

90% bifidobacteria, I would think one would want it to take over, but

after implanting it, switch to acidopholus in order to prevent it from

taking over the small intestine. So far, only taking acidopholus

varieties and s.boulardii hasn't helped at all for me; and being on the

intro for almost 3 weeks (with a few foods added here and there) so I

suspect that the gentle lactobaccilli aren't strong enough to do the

job. I hate having to try something that Elaine didn't recommend, but if

I keep waiting for the " legal " probiotics to work, I may end up

extremely sick. I'm just wondering what people's experience was with

the bifido; enough double blind studies are being done with the

acidopholus and bifido strains with a one year follow up with positive

results, so I suspect not everyone is going to experience overgrowth

problems. Just wondering how quickly your negatives happened, and if it

immediately resolved when you stopped supplementing with bifidus.

Debora

[Guest guest]

> . The problem with bifidum is that when

> you have a situation like this it says " yippee " plenty of room for

> me and goes nuts and takes over. Many people on SCD have had this

> problem (self included).

Did your problem evolve over time, meaning did you take the bifidus for

a long time before you experienced negatives? Considering the colon is

90% bifidobacteria, I would think one would want it to take over, but

after implanting it, switch to acidopholus in order to prevent it from

taking over the small intestine. So far, only taking acidopholus

varieties and s.boulardii hasn't helped at all for me; and being on the

intro for almost 3 weeks (with a few foods added here and there) so I

suspect that the gentle lactobaccilli aren't strong enough to do the

job. I hate having to try something that Elaine didn't recommend, but if

I keep waiting for the " legal " probiotics to work, I may end up

extremely sick. I'm just wondering what people's experience was with

the bifido; enough double blind studies are being done with the

acidopholus and bifido strains with a one year follow up with positive

results, so I suspect not everyone is going to experience overgrowth

problems. Just wondering how quickly your negatives happened, and if it

immediately resolved when you stopped supplementing with bifidus.

Debora

[Guest guest]

Hi Debora,

> > . The problem with bifidum is that when

> > you have a situation like this it says " yippee " plenty of room

for

> > me and goes nuts and takes over. Many people on SCD have had

this

> > problem (self included).

>

> Did your problem evolve over time, meaning did you take the

bifidus for

> a long time before you experienced negatives?

I was using yogurt as yogurt starter with bifidum as one of the

cultures. I used it when I was a newbie and probably was eating it

for a few weeks. I had been doing very well with the diet when I

introduced yogurt. I didn't have symptoms at first but they grew

steadily. I ended up in a very bad flare and was able to tolerate

only meat and some squash. It took a long time for me to get over

it.

Others have posted that their symptoms cleared up as soon as they

stopped (I wasn't that lucky)

Were you tested for C. diff .? Stool/urine/blood test?

Sheila