Re: About wheat

May 7, 2002

> which, as you know, like excessive use of peanuts

> leads to sensitivity in many many people

Stacey, can you explain? My understanding is that peanut allergies

are primarily among children, who usually outgrow allergies. My

understanding is that the development of allergies are unrelated to

excessive use.

> if you go as unrefined as possible

> you have a better chance of avoiding the problematic substances ...

Can you explain this too?

I agree with the NIH, that notes that food allergies are very rare

(1%) compared to the more commonplace food intolerances. (see

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000817.htm). I also

agree with Suzi who wonders how many rosaceans really suffer from

food reactions. Skin allergy/intolerance to a food is

pathophysiologically different than rosacea, although both may

involve redness and swelling and itching of the face.

Marjorie

Marjorie Lazoff, MD

May 7, 2002

> which, as you know, like excessive use of peanuts

> leads to sensitivity in many many people

Stacey, can you explain? My understanding is that peanut allergies

are primarily among children, who usually outgrow allergies. My

understanding is that the development of allergies are unrelated to

excessive use.

> if you go as unrefined as possible

> you have a better chance of avoiding the problematic substances ...

Can you explain this too?

I agree with the NIH, that notes that food allergies are very rare

(1%) compared to the more commonplace food intolerances. (see

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000817.htm). I also

agree with Suzi who wonders how many rosaceans really suffer from

food reactions. Skin allergy/intolerance to a food is

pathophysiologically different than rosacea, although both may

involve redness and swelling and itching of the face.

Marjorie

Marjorie Lazoff, MD

May 7, 2002

> which, as you know, like excessive use of peanuts

> leads to sensitivity in many many people

Stacey, can you explain? My understanding is that peanut allergies

are primarily among children, who usually outgrow allergies. My

understanding is that the development of allergies are unrelated to

excessive use.

> if you go as unrefined as possible

> you have a better chance of avoiding the problematic substances ...

Can you explain this too?

I agree with the NIH, that notes that food allergies are very rare

(1%) compared to the more commonplace food intolerances. (see

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000817.htm). I also

agree with Suzi who wonders how many rosaceans really suffer from

food reactions. Skin allergy/intolerance to a food is

pathophysiologically different than rosacea, although both may

involve redness and swelling and itching of the face.

Marjorie

Marjorie Lazoff, MD

May 7, 2002

Quite right Suzi, I'm a chemist. I had no idea that gluten intolerance could

be caused by only trace amounts of gluten, as mentioned by others on this

group. Possibly there's a difference here between gluten intolerance, caused

by the body's inability to handle significant amounts of gluten, and gluten

" allergy " , a reaction to even trace amounts of gluten.

I certainly wasn't doubting the fact that people like yourself react to

these compounds in food, just trying to understand the reason behind it.

Barry Hunt

RE: About wheat

Barry,

I think you've shared your opinion with me before, and

I presume it's based on a background in chemistry.

However, I defer to what physicians and nutritionists

tell me (I currently see both). There is a pretty

comprehensive list of food ingredients to avoid at

celiac.com and it includes all of the things I've

listed. I'm not presenting any far-fetched ideas, just

ones commonly accepted by the medical establishment.

Vinegars have been the subject of some controvery (as

have oats). Some places (I believe the UK?), doctors

say that distilled grain vinegars and alcohols are

fine. In the US, they're still thought to not be.

I only know myself, and I can have a reaction

(flaring, skin rash, GI upset) to either. I've

actually returned drinks when out, saying " this isn't

what I ordered, " when I felt my skin heat up suddenly

and my throat burn, and found out I was right.

Suzi

__________________________________________________

May 7, 2002

Quite right Suzi, I'm a chemist. I had no idea that gluten intolerance could

be caused by only trace amounts of gluten, as mentioned by others on this

group. Possibly there's a difference here between gluten intolerance, caused

by the body's inability to handle significant amounts of gluten, and gluten

" allergy " , a reaction to even trace amounts of gluten.

I certainly wasn't doubting the fact that people like yourself react to

these compounds in food, just trying to understand the reason behind it.

Barry Hunt

RE: About wheat

Barry,

I think you've shared your opinion with me before, and

I presume it's based on a background in chemistry.

However, I defer to what physicians and nutritionists

tell me (I currently see both). There is a pretty

comprehensive list of food ingredients to avoid at

celiac.com and it includes all of the things I've

listed. I'm not presenting any far-fetched ideas, just

ones commonly accepted by the medical establishment.

Vinegars have been the subject of some controvery (as

have oats). Some places (I believe the UK?), doctors

say that distilled grain vinegars and alcohols are

fine. In the US, they're still thought to not be.

I only know myself, and I can have a reaction

(flaring, skin rash, GI upset) to either. I've

actually returned drinks when out, saying " this isn't

what I ordered, " when I felt my skin heat up suddenly

and my throat burn, and found out I was right.

Suzi

__________________________________________________

May 7, 2002

Quite right Suzi, I'm a chemist. I had no idea that gluten intolerance could

be caused by only trace amounts of gluten, as mentioned by others on this

group. Possibly there's a difference here between gluten intolerance, caused

by the body's inability to handle significant amounts of gluten, and gluten

" allergy " , a reaction to even trace amounts of gluten.

I certainly wasn't doubting the fact that people like yourself react to

these compounds in food, just trying to understand the reason behind it.

Barry Hunt

RE: About wheat

Barry,

I think you've shared your opinion with me before, and

I presume it's based on a background in chemistry.

However, I defer to what physicians and nutritionists

tell me (I currently see both). There is a pretty

comprehensive list of food ingredients to avoid at

celiac.com and it includes all of the things I've

listed. I'm not presenting any far-fetched ideas, just

ones commonly accepted by the medical establishment.

Vinegars have been the subject of some controvery (as

have oats). Some places (I believe the UK?), doctors

say that distilled grain vinegars and alcohols are

fine. In the US, they're still thought to not be.

I only know myself, and I can have a reaction

(flaring, skin rash, GI upset) to either. I've

actually returned drinks when out, saying " this isn't

what I ordered, " when I felt my skin heat up suddenly

and my throat burn, and found out I was right.

Suzi

__________________________________________________

May 7, 2002

<<

>

> I see what you mean Suzi, but I'd be very surprised if any

of the gluten

> " effects " are still detectable in vinegar, alcohol,

dextrose, glycerides of

> any sort, or citric acid. By the time these products have

been made from the

> original wheat I can't see that any gluten can possibly be

present, other

> than minute traces.

>

> Barry Hunt

Apparently, sometimes that's all it takes for some people. It

causes an immune reaction and damages the villi lining the

small intestine causing nutrient malabsorbtion.

>>

bottom line is

if something bothers you

gives you an adverse reaction

it doesn't really matter if

a zillion

million

billion

people tell you that your reaction is impossible

you still have it!

ergo: it's possible.

we all know our own bodies best.

bananas give me heartburn

(even just one)

a teaspoon of sugar in my coffee will make my head hurt.

i don't care if there is no mechanism for these reactions

i get em

time and

time

and

time again!

stacey.

May 7, 2002

<<

>

> I see what you mean Suzi, but I'd be very surprised if any

of the gluten

> " effects " are still detectable in vinegar, alcohol,

dextrose, glycerides of

> any sort, or citric acid. By the time these products have

been made from the

> original wheat I can't see that any gluten can possibly be

present, other

> than minute traces.

>

> Barry Hunt

Apparently, sometimes that's all it takes for some people. It

causes an immune reaction and damages the villi lining the

small intestine causing nutrient malabsorbtion.

>>

bottom line is

if something bothers you

gives you an adverse reaction

it doesn't really matter if

a zillion

million

billion

people tell you that your reaction is impossible

you still have it!

ergo: it's possible.

we all know our own bodies best.

bananas give me heartburn

(even just one)

a teaspoon of sugar in my coffee will make my head hurt.

i don't care if there is no mechanism for these reactions

i get em

time and

time

and

time again!

stacey.

May 7, 2002

<<

>

> I see what you mean Suzi, but I'd be very surprised if any

of the gluten

> " effects " are still detectable in vinegar, alcohol,

dextrose, glycerides of

> any sort, or citric acid. By the time these products have

been made from the

> original wheat I can't see that any gluten can possibly be

present, other

> than minute traces.

>

> Barry Hunt

Apparently, sometimes that's all it takes for some people. It

causes an immune reaction and damages the villi lining the

small intestine causing nutrient malabsorbtion.

>>

bottom line is

if something bothers you

gives you an adverse reaction

it doesn't really matter if

a zillion

million

billion

people tell you that your reaction is impossible

you still have it!

ergo: it's possible.

we all know our own bodies best.

bananas give me heartburn

(even just one)

a teaspoon of sugar in my coffee will make my head hurt.

i don't care if there is no mechanism for these reactions

i get em

time and

time

and

time again!

stacey.

May 7, 2002

<

leads to sensitivity in many many people

Stacey, can you explain? My understanding is that peanut allergies

are primarily among children, who usually outgrow allergies. My

understanding is that the development of allergies are unrelated to

excessive use.

there is an steady increase in the number of people with severe

(anaphylactic shock reaction)

peanut allergies

(including as adults)

seems directly related to the increase in use of peanuts/peanut by-products

in processed food -- peanut oil or peanuts are in soooo many things

i'll admit it's just a theory

but it's a popular theory (and it's not my theory)

that the increase in severe peanut allergy is due to a sensitization to

peanuts

due to excessive exposure to peanuts (not just as peanuts but in many

processed foods)

suzi mentioned a similar bombardment of wheat-without-knowing-it

in processed food

i wonder if there is a correlation between something like wheat

peanuts

(sugar)

used in many many many

processed forms

that sensitize people to them

the plantation slaves that worked in the sugar cane fields and ate the

unrefined sugar cane

(gaining the minerals and vitamins etc)

didn't suffer any of the obesity and diabetes that the plantation owners

with their diet high in refined sugar

did

the wheat peanut thing was kind of an analogy ...

> if you go as unrefined as possible

> you have a better chance of avoiding the problematic substances ...

Can >>

if you go unrefined --

eg the sugar cane instead of refined sugar --

you get the minerals and vitamins not just the sucrose

if you go unrefined

fresh fruit and veg

full grains

lentils

whatever

you won't be buying processed food with hidden 'flare triggers'

e.g. wheat starch on your tamari almonds

someone mentioned veggie burgers at the healthfood store that were

surprisingly

chock full of problematic ingredients

so my idea with unrefined

buy the ingredients

and a good cook book

and make your own

that way you have more control over what you're eating

all i meant by going unrefined was

a diet as close to nature as possible has fewer things

(preservatives

colouring

flavouring

etc)

that a) your body has to work hard to clean out of your system

b)cause some rosaceans to flare ...

i hope i've been a little clearer than mud ...

if no

please tell me i try to explain again!

stacey

May 7, 2002

Meant for the group?

Re: About wheat

>

> In a message dated 5/7/02 9:13:46 PM, aaa@...

writes:

>

> <<

> >

> > I see what you mean Suzi, but I'd be very surprised if

any

> of the gluten

> > " effects " are still detectable in vinegar, alcohol,

> dextrose, glycerides of

> > any sort, or citric acid. By the time these products have

> been made from the

> > original wheat I can't see that any gluten can possibly

be

> present, other

> > than minute traces.

> >

> > Barry Hunt

>

> Apparently, sometimes that's all it takes for some people.

It

> causes an immune reaction and damages the villi lining the

> small intestine causing nutrient malabsorbtion.

>

> >>

>

> bottom line is

> if something bothers you

> gives you an adverse reaction

> it doesn't really matter if

> a zillion

> million

> billion

> people tell you that your reaction is impossible

> you still have it!

> ergo: it's possible.

>

> we all know our own bodies best.

> bananas give me heartburn

> (even just one)

> a teaspoon of sugar in my coffee will make my head hurt.

> i don't care if there is no mechanism for these reactions

> i get em

> time and

> time

> and

> time again!

>

> stacey.

>

May 7, 2002

Meant for the group?

Re: About wheat

>

> In a message dated 5/7/02 9:13:46 PM, aaa@...

writes:

>

> <<

> >

> > I see what you mean Suzi, but I'd be very surprised if

any

> of the gluten

> > " effects " are still detectable in vinegar, alcohol,

> dextrose, glycerides of

> > any sort, or citric acid. By the time these products have

> been made from the

> > original wheat I can't see that any gluten can possibly

be

> present, other

> > than minute traces.

> >

> > Barry Hunt

>

> Apparently, sometimes that's all it takes for some people.

It

> causes an immune reaction and damages the villi lining the

> small intestine causing nutrient malabsorbtion.

>

> >>

>

> bottom line is

> if something bothers you

> gives you an adverse reaction

> it doesn't really matter if

> a zillion

> million

> billion

> people tell you that your reaction is impossible

> you still have it!

> ergo: it's possible.

>

> we all know our own bodies best.

> bananas give me heartburn

> (even just one)

> a teaspoon of sugar in my coffee will make my head hurt.

> i don't care if there is no mechanism for these reactions

> i get em

> time and

> time

> and

> time again!

>

> stacey.

>

May 7, 2002

Meant for the group?

Re: About wheat

>

> In a message dated 5/7/02 9:13:46 PM, aaa@...

writes:

>

> <<

> >

> > I see what you mean Suzi, but I'd be very surprised if

any

> of the gluten

> > " effects " are still detectable in vinegar, alcohol,

> dextrose, glycerides of

> > any sort, or citric acid. By the time these products have

> been made from the

> > original wheat I can't see that any gluten can possibly

be

> present, other

> > than minute traces.

> >

> > Barry Hunt

>

> Apparently, sometimes that's all it takes for some people.

It

> causes an immune reaction and damages the villi lining the

> small intestine causing nutrient malabsorbtion.

>

> >>

>

> bottom line is

> if something bothers you

> gives you an adverse reaction

> it doesn't really matter if

> a zillion

> million

> billion

> people tell you that your reaction is impossible

> you still have it!

> ergo: it's possible.

>

> we all know our own bodies best.

> bananas give me heartburn

> (even just one)

> a teaspoon of sugar in my coffee will make my head hurt.

> i don't care if there is no mechanism for these reactions

> i get em

> time and

> time

> and

> time again!

>

> stacey.

>

May 8, 2002

Thanks for your thoughtful reply, Stacey. I think I understand what

you're saying. Let me know where I'm going astray.

> there is an steady increase in the number of people with severe

> (anaphylactic shock reaction)

> peanut allergies

> (including as adults)

> seems directly related to the increase in use of peanuts/peanut by-

products

> in processed food -- peanut oil or peanuts are in soooo many things

> i'll admit it's just a theory

> but it's a popular theory (and it's not my theory)

> that the increase in severe peanut allergy is due to a

sensitization to

> peanuts

> due to excessive exposure to peanuts (not just as peanuts but in

many

> processed foods)

Given how cheap peanuts are, there probably is more peanut-related

ingredients in our foods, and that's of great concern to those with a

peanut allergy, but not those of us without such an allergy.

If you're trying to explain an increase in peanut allergies, I

believe the evidence shows that's a common overquoted misconception.

For example, according to this reference, there's no epidemiologic

evidence supporting it:

http://www.allerg.qc.ca/peanutallergy.htm

It's written by Weisnagel, M.D., whose credentials are at the

end of the article. It's his labor of love, and he goes into great

detail regarding peanut allergies, presenting lots of evidence from

all sources. Here's a taste , from the introduction.

" This review of the complex issue of peanut allergy was started in

Oct. 1998 following a great deal of attention given to the subject in

the media at that particular time. This followed many publications in

the medical literature as cited in the references seen below in the

opening paragraphs, conclusions of the authors considered

as " alarming, frightening " , according to comments of some visitors

scanning this article. There were articles in magazines, like Time,

Newsweek, as well as in local papers on what seems an increase in

peanut allergy, on banning peanuts in schools or on commercial

flights, etc.22,25 (see also table of contents, above). Some of the

articles, and reactions to them, were posted and appear in the

article, and may still be accessible (at times, they're removed

without any warning). The effect of all this attention to peanut

allergy resulted in a panic situation, both in the minds of the

public as well as the medical community, an attitude that seems to

persist.

Today, things have quieted somewhat particularly in the media, but

most publications on the subject in the medical literature still

often begin with, " most pediatric allergists agree the the prevelance

of food allergies, and peanut allergy in particular, is

increasing... " 107 " peanut and nut allergy is common and the most

frequent cause of severe or fatal reactions to foods... " 108

or " ...despite the steady advancement in our understanding of atopic

immune responses and the increasing number of deaths each year from

peanut anaphylaxis...119 " or... " peanut is one of the most common

foods causing allergic reactions and is the most common cause of

fatal and near-fatal food-related anaphylaxis.. " 122 giving the

impression that peanut allergy is indeed on the increase, but as Dr

Hugh Sampson states in the opening paragraph of his article " What

should we be doing for children with peanut allergy? " 107

[boldfaced] " appropriate epidemiological data to substantiate this

belief are lacking! " [boldfaced]

Also, the good news is that there are encouraging indications,

contrary to previous publications, that allergy to peanuts can

disappear.(see recently posted reports.) There are studies in

progress in various centers evaluating the duration of this allergy. "

> the plantation slaves that worked in the sugar cane fields and ate

> the

> unrefined sugar cane

> (gaining the minerals and vitamins etc)

> didn't suffer any of the obesity and diabetes that the plantation

> owners

> with their diet high in refined sugar

> did

Why can't any difference in the incidence in diabetes be wholly

explained by differences in lifestyle (exercise and body weight)? I

don't imagine there were many overweight, sedentary slaves

(unfortunately).

> all i meant by going unrefined was

> a diet as close to nature as possible has fewer things

> (preservatives

> colouring

> flavouring

> etc)

> that a) your body has to work hard to clean out of your system

> b)cause some rosaceans to flare ...

I agree that those with food intolerances/allergies need to be very

careful nowadays, what with hidden ingredients in processed and

restaurant foods, but that's whether they have rosacea or not. If I

understand, a non-rosacean that flushes from an ingredient should

avoid it because the flush represents one symptom of an underlying

intolerance to the ingredient; if a rosacean doesn't flare from an

ingredient, then why avoid it?

I guess I'm not understanding what's wrong with the conventional

healthy diet -- you know, the food pyramid stuff? It sounds like you

feel everyone should " go unrefined " rather than use processed foods

in moderation, as a conventional healthy diet recommends.

Marjorie

Marjorie Lazoff, MD

May 8, 2002

Dr. Lazoff:

Stacey may have a point about peanuts. Some rosaceans may have a peanut

allergy. You can check out this url:

http://skincarecampaign.org/peanutall.htm

While food allergies are really a separate issue as you mention,

nevertheless, food and drink have some connection to rosacea triggers as

the NRS and Dr. Nase clearly show.

Brady Barrows

>> which, as you know, like excessive use of peanuts

>> leads to sensitivity in many many people

>

> Stacey, can you explain? My understanding is that peanut allergies

> are primarily among children, who usually outgrow allergies. My

> understanding is that the development of allergies are unrelated to

> excessive use.

>

>> if you go as unrefined as possible

>> you have a better chance of avoiding the problematic substances ...

>

> Can you explain this too?

>

> I agree with the NIH, that notes that food allergies are very rare

> (1%) compared to the more commonplace food intolerances. (see

> http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000817.htm). I also

> agree with Suzi who wonders how many rosaceans really suffer from

> food reactions. Skin allergy/intolerance to a food is

> pathophysiologically different than rosacea, although both may

> involve redness and swelling and itching of the face.

>

> Marjorie

>

> Marjorie Lazoff, MD

>

> --

> Please read the list highlights before posting to the whole group

> (http://rosacea.ii.net/toc.html). Your post will be delayed if you

> don't give a meaningful subject or trim your reply text. You must

> change the subject when replying to a digest !

>

> See http://www.drnase.com for info on his recently published book.

>

> To leave the list send an email to rosacea-support-

> unsubscribe

>

May 8, 2002