Re: Flushing appeal (was: Re-bound effect?)

[Guest guest]

I would like to thank you for sharing your views that you think it is

sexy when men blush. Unfortunately, unless you metaphysically

imprint your views to 99% of the other women out there, there will

continue to be a need to prevent flushing. Subconciously, maybe

through some darwin like mechanism, flushing, erythema, generalized

swelling and redness, it's associated with infection or some vascular

dysfunction, and therefore not a wanted characteristic compared to

really clear skin. I think it is genetically programmed for both

women and men to be turned off by this. There is something about

having perfect skin which creates attraction -- on that purely

physical level of first impression, one that cannot be reasoned away

saying he is not a drinker he just flushes alot.

>

> > oh no, what's so bad about flushing.. everything! first,

flushing

> > is cosmetically unappealing. your skin should all be the same

> > colour throughout

>

> Obviously the universe of women who use blusher would disagree with

> you, 007.

>

> Seriously, I love when men blush, I think it's very sexy. And I'm

not

> turned off at all by a man with a flush, or sunburn for that

matter.

> I don't even mind pimples, since all adults have some kind of

facial

> skin imperfection. I wonder if men worship perfect skin in women

more

> than women do in men, or if it's just a matter of personal

> preference?

>

> Blushing/flushing is a common sensitivity, especially but not

limited

> to rosaceans, and that's a cause of psychic pain that can be as

> painful as physical pain for a person. Like many social

> sensitivities, its importance to others doesn't loom anywhere near

as

> large as those with the sensitivity imagine it does.

>

> I can think of only two objective social problem with

> blushing/flushing is: (1) some ignorant people still associate it

> with alcoholism, even though flushing occurs for many medical

reasons

> and it's usually pretty obvious for socially adept people to sense

> after a few minute's conversation who's just flushing and who's got

> the personality of a drinker, and (2) in some professions,

> particularly business or law, the 'poker face' is critically

> important. A poorly placed blush could realistically blow a deal.

>

> So easy blushers should probably not become secret agents like

> Bond, right 007?

>

> Marjorie

>

> Marjorie Lazoff, MD

[Guest guest]

I would like to thank you for sharing your views that you think it is

sexy when men blush. Unfortunately, unless you metaphysically

imprint your views to 99% of the other women out there, there will

continue to be a need to prevent flushing. Subconciously, maybe

through some darwin like mechanism, flushing, erythema, generalized

swelling and redness, it's associated with infection or some vascular

dysfunction, and therefore not a wanted characteristic compared to

really clear skin. I think it is genetically programmed for both

women and men to be turned off by this. There is something about

having perfect skin which creates attraction -- on that purely

physical level of first impression, one that cannot be reasoned away

saying he is not a drinker he just flushes alot.

>

> > oh no, what's so bad about flushing.. everything! first,

flushing

> > is cosmetically unappealing. your skin should all be the same

> > colour throughout

>

> Obviously the universe of women who use blusher would disagree with

> you, 007.

>

> Seriously, I love when men blush, I think it's very sexy. And I'm

not

> turned off at all by a man with a flush, or sunburn for that

matter.

> I don't even mind pimples, since all adults have some kind of

facial

> skin imperfection. I wonder if men worship perfect skin in women

more

> than women do in men, or if it's just a matter of personal

> preference?

>

> Blushing/flushing is a common sensitivity, especially but not

limited

> to rosaceans, and that's a cause of psychic pain that can be as

> painful as physical pain for a person. Like many social

> sensitivities, its importance to others doesn't loom anywhere near

as

> large as those with the sensitivity imagine it does.

>

> I can think of only two objective social problem with

> blushing/flushing is: (1) some ignorant people still associate it

> with alcoholism, even though flushing occurs for many medical

reasons

> and it's usually pretty obvious for socially adept people to sense

> after a few minute's conversation who's just flushing and who's got

> the personality of a drinker, and (2) in some professions,

> particularly business or law, the 'poker face' is critically

> important. A poorly placed blush could realistically blow a deal.

>

> So easy blushers should probably not become secret agents like

> Bond, right 007?

>

> Marjorie

>

> Marjorie Lazoff, MD

[Guest guest]

I would like to thank you for sharing your views that you think it is

sexy when men blush. Unfortunately, unless you metaphysically

imprint your views to 99% of the other women out there, there will

continue to be a need to prevent flushing. Subconciously, maybe

through some darwin like mechanism, flushing, erythema, generalized

swelling and redness, it's associated with infection or some vascular

dysfunction, and therefore not a wanted characteristic compared to

really clear skin. I think it is genetically programmed for both

women and men to be turned off by this. There is something about

having perfect skin which creates attraction -- on that purely

physical level of first impression, one that cannot be reasoned away

saying he is not a drinker he just flushes alot.

>

> > oh no, what's so bad about flushing.. everything! first,

flushing

> > is cosmetically unappealing. your skin should all be the same

> > colour throughout

>

> Obviously the universe of women who use blusher would disagree with

> you, 007.

>

> Seriously, I love when men blush, I think it's very sexy. And I'm

not

> turned off at all by a man with a flush, or sunburn for that

matter.

> I don't even mind pimples, since all adults have some kind of

facial

> skin imperfection. I wonder if men worship perfect skin in women

more

> than women do in men, or if it's just a matter of personal

> preference?

>

> Blushing/flushing is a common sensitivity, especially but not

limited

> to rosaceans, and that's a cause of psychic pain that can be as

> painful as physical pain for a person. Like many social

> sensitivities, its importance to others doesn't loom anywhere near

as

> large as those with the sensitivity imagine it does.

>

> I can think of only two objective social problem with

> blushing/flushing is: (1) some ignorant people still associate it

> with alcoholism, even though flushing occurs for many medical

reasons

> and it's usually pretty obvious for socially adept people to sense

> after a few minute's conversation who's just flushing and who's got

> the personality of a drinker, and (2) in some professions,

> particularly business or law, the 'poker face' is critically

> important. A poorly placed blush could realistically blow a deal.

>

> So easy blushers should probably not become secret agents like

> Bond, right 007?

>

> Marjorie

>

> Marjorie Lazoff, MD

[Guest guest]

<<

> oh no, what's so bad about flushing.. everything! first, flushing

> is cosmetically unappealing. your skin should all be the same

> colour throughout

Obviously the universe of women who use blusher would disagree with

you, 007. >>

hey, as a makeup artist, i'd like to second what marjorie is saying!

if someone doesn't have a variety of skin tones showing through the skin

it looks mask like and very very plastic.

even when i conceal someone's imperfections,

i never try to hide all the natural tones in their skin

we like a little glow in the cheeks

on the forehead

on the chin!

in fact, we'll add 'em in if they aren't enough

that goes for men and women

although some people may be insensitive pigs

and say stupid stuff like:

what's wrong with your face?

most people don't even give a rats ass

about your skin imperfections

they see you

see your smile

enjoy your personality

even when you (i)

feel like you can't hold your head up high ....

we are all super obsessed with appearance (all of us on this planet)

and sometimes we forget that our beautiful hearts show even more...

that being said

i know

i know

i know

that we want our skin to be good

not for others

but for ourselves

to feel good

just have life EASY

(i as much as anyone ...)

question:

has anyone tried specto derm?

if yes

what do you think of it?

stacey

[Guest guest]

<<

> oh no, what's so bad about flushing.. everything! first, flushing

> is cosmetically unappealing. your skin should all be the same

> colour throughout

Obviously the universe of women who use blusher would disagree with

you, 007. >>

hey, as a makeup artist, i'd like to second what marjorie is saying!

if someone doesn't have a variety of skin tones showing through the skin

it looks mask like and very very plastic.

even when i conceal someone's imperfections,

i never try to hide all the natural tones in their skin

we like a little glow in the cheeks

on the forehead

on the chin!

in fact, we'll add 'em in if they aren't enough

that goes for men and women

although some people may be insensitive pigs

and say stupid stuff like:

what's wrong with your face?

most people don't even give a rats ass

about your skin imperfections

they see you

see your smile

enjoy your personality

even when you (i)

feel like you can't hold your head up high ....

we are all super obsessed with appearance (all of us on this planet)

and sometimes we forget that our beautiful hearts show even more...

that being said

i know

i know

i know

that we want our skin to be good

not for others

but for ourselves

to feel good

just have life EASY

(i as much as anyone ...)

question:

has anyone tried specto derm?

if yes

what do you think of it?

stacey

[Guest guest]

Sorry if this is digressing a little, but as someone physically handicapped

by chronic flushing, I have to put a word in here for those in this group

(and there are more than a few of us) for whom flushing and/or blushing has

progressed to a stage far beyond being a symptom or condition that can be

considered a " skin imperfection " , " sexy " or a " social sensitivity. " It most

definitely can become very physically painful and debilitating. Thankfully,

most rosacea cases will never progress to this stage, but there are a

significant number of us who suffer severe, daily, painful flushing. When I

blush or flush it is not cute, and my cheeks do not take on a healthy glow -

rather my entire face including my eyes, ears, and sometimes neck, flush an

intense red-purple, accompanied by swelling and worst of all, disabling

burning and pulsating pain. Believe me, no one who sees me like this has

ever found it appealing, instead there is much concern. In my case it can

only be managed (so far) by living with a fan blowing directly on my face

24/7, strong medications, and regular photoderm/laser treatments that have

been ongoing for the past several years. It is vascular rosacea at it's

worst, nothing appealing about it.

Jen

:

>

><<

>> oh no, what's so bad about flushing.. everything! first, flushing

>> is cosmetically unappealing. your skin should all be the same

>> colour throughout

>

>Obviously the universe of women who use blusher would disagree with

>you, 007. >>

[Guest guest]

Sorry if this is digressing a little, but as someone physically handicapped

by chronic flushing, I have to put a word in here for those in this group

(and there are more than a few of us) for whom flushing and/or blushing has

progressed to a stage far beyond being a symptom or condition that can be

considered a " skin imperfection " , " sexy " or a " social sensitivity. " It most

definitely can become very physically painful and debilitating. Thankfully,

most rosacea cases will never progress to this stage, but there are a

significant number of us who suffer severe, daily, painful flushing. When I

blush or flush it is not cute, and my cheeks do not take on a healthy glow -

rather my entire face including my eyes, ears, and sometimes neck, flush an

intense red-purple, accompanied by swelling and worst of all, disabling

burning and pulsating pain. Believe me, no one who sees me like this has

ever found it appealing, instead there is much concern. In my case it can

only be managed (so far) by living with a fan blowing directly on my face

24/7, strong medications, and regular photoderm/laser treatments that have

been ongoing for the past several years. It is vascular rosacea at it's

worst, nothing appealing about it.

Jen

:

>

><<

>> oh no, what's so bad about flushing.. everything! first, flushing

>> is cosmetically unappealing. your skin should all be the same

>> colour throughout

>

>Obviously the universe of women who use blusher would disagree with

>you, 007. >>

[Guest guest]

Sorry if this is digressing a little, but as someone physically handicapped

by chronic flushing, I have to put a word in here for those in this group

(and there are more than a few of us) for whom flushing and/or blushing has

progressed to a stage far beyond being a symptom or condition that can be

considered a " skin imperfection " , " sexy " or a " social sensitivity. " It most

definitely can become very physically painful and debilitating. Thankfully,

most rosacea cases will never progress to this stage, but there are a

significant number of us who suffer severe, daily, painful flushing. When I

blush or flush it is not cute, and my cheeks do not take on a healthy glow -

rather my entire face including my eyes, ears, and sometimes neck, flush an

intense red-purple, accompanied by swelling and worst of all, disabling

burning and pulsating pain. Believe me, no one who sees me like this has

ever found it appealing, instead there is much concern. In my case it can

only be managed (so far) by living with a fan blowing directly on my face

24/7, strong medications, and regular photoderm/laser treatments that have

been ongoing for the past several years. It is vascular rosacea at it's

worst, nothing appealing about it.

Jen

:

>

><<

>> oh no, what's so bad about flushing.. everything! first, flushing

>> is cosmetically unappealing. your skin should all be the same

>> colour throughout

>

>Obviously the universe of women who use blusher would disagree with

>you, 007. >>

[Guest guest]

Jen, I'm sorry to hear things are difficult for you. Of course a

discussion regarding the more commonplace blushing/flushing

experiences of rosaceans obviously does not include extreme examples

such as you describe.

If someone says they find blushing sexy, or doesn't find facial

flushing a big deal from a social perspective, why invalidate their

feelings just because you believe it doesn't apply to you, or rule

out that others might be perceived more favorably than you imagine?

Marjorie

Marjorie Lazoff, MD

> Sorry if this is digressing a little, but as someone physically

handicapped

> by chronic flushing, I have to put a word in here for those in this

group

> (and there are more than a few of us) for whom flushing and/or

blushing has

> progressed to a stage far beyond being a symptom or condition that

can be

> considered a " skin imperfection " , " sexy " or a " social

sensitivity. " It most

> definitely can become very physically painful and debilitating.

Thankfully,

> most rosacea cases will never progress to this stage, but there are

a

> significant number of us who suffer severe, daily, painful

flushing. When I

> blush or flush it is not cute, and my cheeks do not take on a

healthy glow -

> rather my entire face including my eyes, ears, and sometimes neck,

flush an

> intense red-purple, accompanied by swelling and worst of all,

disabling

> burning and pulsating pain. Believe me, no one who sees me like

this has

> ever found it appealing, instead there is much concern. In my case

it can

> only be managed (so far) by living with a fan blowing directly on

my face

> 24/7, strong medications, and regular photoderm/laser treatments

that have

> been ongoing for the past several years. It is vascular rosacea at

it's

> worst, nothing appealing about it.

>

> Jen

> :

> >

> ><<

> >> oh no, what's so bad about flushing.. everything! first,

flushing

> >> is cosmetically unappealing. your skin should all be the same

> >> colour throughout

> >

> >Obviously the universe of women who use blusher would disagree with

> >you, 007. >>

[Guest guest]

Jen, I'm sorry to hear things are difficult for you. Of course a

discussion regarding the more commonplace blushing/flushing

experiences of rosaceans obviously does not include extreme examples

such as you describe.

If someone says they find blushing sexy, or doesn't find facial

flushing a big deal from a social perspective, why invalidate their

feelings just because you believe it doesn't apply to you, or rule

out that others might be perceived more favorably than you imagine?

Marjorie

Marjorie Lazoff, MD

> Sorry if this is digressing a little, but as someone physically

handicapped

> by chronic flushing, I have to put a word in here for those in this

group

> (and there are more than a few of us) for whom flushing and/or

blushing has

> progressed to a stage far beyond being a symptom or condition that

can be

> considered a " skin imperfection " , " sexy " or a " social

sensitivity. " It most

> definitely can become very physically painful and debilitating.

Thankfully,

> most rosacea cases will never progress to this stage, but there are

a

> significant number of us who suffer severe, daily, painful

flushing. When I

> blush or flush it is not cute, and my cheeks do not take on a

healthy glow -

> rather my entire face including my eyes, ears, and sometimes neck,

flush an

> intense red-purple, accompanied by swelling and worst of all,

disabling

> burning and pulsating pain. Believe me, no one who sees me like

this has

> ever found it appealing, instead there is much concern. In my case

it can

> only be managed (so far) by living with a fan blowing directly on

my face

> 24/7, strong medications, and regular photoderm/laser treatments

that have

> been ongoing for the past several years. It is vascular rosacea at

it's

> worst, nothing appealing about it.

>

> Jen

> :

> >

> ><<

> >> oh no, what's so bad about flushing.. everything! first,

flushing

> >> is cosmetically unappealing. your skin should all be the same

> >> colour throughout

> >

> >Obviously the universe of women who use blusher would disagree with

> >you, 007. >>

[Guest guest]

Jen, I'm sorry to hear things are difficult for you. Of course a

discussion regarding the more commonplace blushing/flushing

experiences of rosaceans obviously does not include extreme examples

such as you describe.

If someone says they find blushing sexy, or doesn't find facial

flushing a big deal from a social perspective, why invalidate their

feelings just because you believe it doesn't apply to you, or rule

out that others might be perceived more favorably than you imagine?

Marjorie

Marjorie Lazoff, MD

> Sorry if this is digressing a little, but as someone physically

handicapped

> by chronic flushing, I have to put a word in here for those in this

group

> (and there are more than a few of us) for whom flushing and/or

blushing has

> progressed to a stage far beyond being a symptom or condition that

can be

> considered a " skin imperfection " , " sexy " or a " social

sensitivity. " It most

> definitely can become very physically painful and debilitating.

Thankfully,

> most rosacea cases will never progress to this stage, but there are

a

> significant number of us who suffer severe, daily, painful

flushing. When I

> blush or flush it is not cute, and my cheeks do not take on a

healthy glow -

> rather my entire face including my eyes, ears, and sometimes neck,

flush an

> intense red-purple, accompanied by swelling and worst of all,

disabling

> burning and pulsating pain. Believe me, no one who sees me like

this has

> ever found it appealing, instead there is much concern. In my case

it can

> only be managed (so far) by living with a fan blowing directly on

my face

> 24/7, strong medications, and regular photoderm/laser treatments

that have

> been ongoing for the past several years. It is vascular rosacea at

it's

> worst, nothing appealing about it.

>

> Jen

> :

> >

> ><<

> >> oh no, what's so bad about flushing.. everything! first,

flushing

> >> is cosmetically unappealing. your skin should all be the same

> >> colour throughout

> >

> >Obviously the universe of women who use blusher would disagree with

> >you, 007. >>

[Guest guest]

I see NOTHING at all in Jen's post that is an attempt to " invalidate " your

feelings (or anyone else's for that matter) because it " doesn't apply to

her " . In fact I think her post expanded the discussion on flushing to

include the very deep and severe vascular flushing that some rosaceans

experience, in a very articulate and neutral and non-personal manner that

did not in any way dismiss anyone else's expressed views about more

" commonplace " flushing.

> Jen, I'm sorry to hear things are difficult for you. Of course a

> discussion regarding the more commonplace blushing/flushing

> experiences of rosaceans obviously does not include extreme examples

> such as you describe.

>

> If someone says they find blushing sexy, or doesn't find facial

> flushing a big deal from a social perspective, why invalidate their

> feelings just because you believe it doesn't apply to you, or rule

> out that others might be perceived more favorably than you imagine?

>

> Marjorie

>

> Marjorie Lazoff, MD

>

>

>

>

>> Sorry if this is digressing a little, but as someone physically

> handicapped

>> by chronic flushing, I have to put a word in here for those in this

> group

>> (and there are more than a few of us) for whom flushing and/or

> blushing has

>> progressed to a stage far beyond being a symptom or condition that

> can be

>> considered a " skin imperfection " , " sexy " or a " social

> sensitivity. " It most

>> definitely can become very physically painful and debilitating.

> Thankfully,

>> most rosacea cases will never progress to this stage, but there are

> a

>> significant number of us who suffer severe, daily, painful

> flushing. When I

>> blush or flush it is not cute, and my cheeks do not take on a

> healthy glow -

>> rather my entire face including my eyes, ears, and sometimes neck,

> flush an

>> intense red-purple, accompanied by swelling and worst of all,

> disabling

>> burning and pulsating pain. Believe me, no one who sees me like

> this has

>> ever found it appealing, instead there is much concern. In my case

> it can

>> only be managed (so far) by living with a fan blowing directly on

> my face

>> 24/7, strong medications, and regular photoderm/laser treatments

> that have

>> been ongoing for the past several years. It is vascular rosacea at

> it's

>> worst, nothing appealing about it.

>>

>> Jen

>> :

>>>

>>> <<

>>>> oh no, what's so bad about flushing.. everything! first,

> flushing

>>>> is cosmetically unappealing. your skin should all be the same

>>>> colour throughout

>>>

>>> Obviously the universe of women who use blusher would disagree with

>>> you, 007. >>

>

>

>

> --

> Please read the list highlights before posting to the whole group

> (http://rosacea.ii.net/toc.html). Your post will be delayed if you don't give

> a meaningful subject or trim your reply text. You must change the subject when

> replying to a digest !

>

> See http://www.drnase.com for info on his recently published book.

>

> To leave the list send an email to rosacea-support-unsubscribe

>

>

[Guest guest]

I see NOTHING at all in Jen's post that is an attempt to " invalidate " your

feelings (or anyone else's for that matter) because it " doesn't apply to

her " . In fact I think her post expanded the discussion on flushing to

include the very deep and severe vascular flushing that some rosaceans

experience, in a very articulate and neutral and non-personal manner that

did not in any way dismiss anyone else's expressed views about more

" commonplace " flushing.

> Jen, I'm sorry to hear things are difficult for you. Of course a

> discussion regarding the more commonplace blushing/flushing

> experiences of rosaceans obviously does not include extreme examples

> such as you describe.

>

> If someone says they find blushing sexy, or doesn't find facial

> flushing a big deal from a social perspective, why invalidate their

> feelings just because you believe it doesn't apply to you, or rule

> out that others might be perceived more favorably than you imagine?

>

> Marjorie

>

> Marjorie Lazoff, MD

>

>

>

>

>> Sorry if this is digressing a little, but as someone physically

> handicapped

>> by chronic flushing, I have to put a word in here for those in this

> group

>> (and there are more than a few of us) for whom flushing and/or

> blushing has

>> progressed to a stage far beyond being a symptom or condition that

> can be

>> considered a " skin imperfection " , " sexy " or a " social

> sensitivity. " It most

>> definitely can become very physically painful and debilitating.

> Thankfully,

>> most rosacea cases will never progress to this stage, but there are

> a

>> significant number of us who suffer severe, daily, painful

> flushing. When I

>> blush or flush it is not cute, and my cheeks do not take on a

> healthy glow -

>> rather my entire face including my eyes, ears, and sometimes neck,

> flush an

>> intense red-purple, accompanied by swelling and worst of all,

> disabling

>> burning and pulsating pain. Believe me, no one who sees me like

> this has

>> ever found it appealing, instead there is much concern. In my case

> it can

>> only be managed (so far) by living with a fan blowing directly on

> my face

>> 24/7, strong medications, and regular photoderm/laser treatments

> that have

>> been ongoing for the past several years. It is vascular rosacea at

> it's

>> worst, nothing appealing about it.

>>

>> Jen

>> :

>>>

>>> <<

>>>> oh no, what's so bad about flushing.. everything! first,

> flushing

>>>> is cosmetically unappealing. your skin should all be the same

>>>> colour throughout

>>>

>>> Obviously the universe of women who use blusher would disagree with

>>> you, 007. >>

>

>

>

> --

> Please read the list highlights before posting to the whole group

> (http://rosacea.ii.net/toc.html). Your post will be delayed if you don't give

> a meaningful subject or trim your reply text. You must change the subject when

> replying to a digest !

>

> See http://www.drnase.com for info on his recently published book.

>

> To leave the list send an email to rosacea-support-unsubscribe

>

>

[Guest guest]

I see NOTHING at all in Jen's post that is an attempt to " invalidate " your

feelings (or anyone else's for that matter) because it " doesn't apply to

her " . In fact I think her post expanded the discussion on flushing to

include the very deep and severe vascular flushing that some rosaceans

experience, in a very articulate and neutral and non-personal manner that

did not in any way dismiss anyone else's expressed views about more

" commonplace " flushing.

> Jen, I'm sorry to hear things are difficult for you. Of course a

> discussion regarding the more commonplace blushing/flushing

> experiences of rosaceans obviously does not include extreme examples

> such as you describe.

>

> If someone says they find blushing sexy, or doesn't find facial

> flushing a big deal from a social perspective, why invalidate their

> feelings just because you believe it doesn't apply to you, or rule

> out that others might be perceived more favorably than you imagine?

>

> Marjorie

>

> Marjorie Lazoff, MD

>

>

>

>

>> Sorry if this is digressing a little, but as someone physically

> handicapped

>> by chronic flushing, I have to put a word in here for those in this

> group

>> (and there are more than a few of us) for whom flushing and/or

> blushing has

>> progressed to a stage far beyond being a symptom or condition that

> can be

>> considered a " skin imperfection " , " sexy " or a " social

> sensitivity. " It most

>> definitely can become very physically painful and debilitating.

> Thankfully,

>> most rosacea cases will never progress to this stage, but there are

> a

>> significant number of us who suffer severe, daily, painful

> flushing. When I

>> blush or flush it is not cute, and my cheeks do not take on a

> healthy glow -

>> rather my entire face including my eyes, ears, and sometimes neck,

> flush an

>> intense red-purple, accompanied by swelling and worst of all,

> disabling

>> burning and pulsating pain. Believe me, no one who sees me like

> this has

>> ever found it appealing, instead there is much concern. In my case

> it can

>> only be managed (so far) by living with a fan blowing directly on

> my face

>> 24/7, strong medications, and regular photoderm/laser treatments

> that have

>> been ongoing for the past several years. It is vascular rosacea at

> it's

>> worst, nothing appealing about it.

>>

>> Jen

>> :

>>>

>>> <<

>>>> oh no, what's so bad about flushing.. everything! first,

> flushing

>>>> is cosmetically unappealing. your skin should all be the same

>>>> colour throughout

>>>

>>> Obviously the universe of women who use blusher would disagree with

>>> you, 007. >>

>

>

>

> --

> Please read the list highlights before posting to the whole group

> (http://rosacea.ii.net/toc.html). Your post will be delayed if you don't give

> a meaningful subject or trim your reply text. You must change the subject when

> replying to a digest !

>

> See http://www.drnase.com for info on his recently published book.

>

> To leave the list send an email to rosacea-support-unsubscribe

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Jen,

Thank you so much for sharing your experience. I'm sorry you have

such a hard time and so much pain.

My question was never intended to suggest that there wasn't ever

anything wrong with flushing; quite the contrary: I was hoping to

find out what I MIGHT be risking if I choose to take a casual

approach to my symptoms.

I've been quite surprised with the response so far. I was sure I

would hear more responses like yours, since so many people stress

avoiding [flushing] triggers. That was very confusing to me, since my

own flushing is not terribly bothersome.

What I've read is that at some point, the flushing of rosecea may not

go away. I don't understand why or when, if ever, that might occur.

But if it were to happen to me, and be accompanied by pain &/or a

burning sensation, I think I'd feel like I screwed myself royally,

especially considering that just rubbing in a little cream every day

is not a lot to do.

Now I am just trying to sort out what my individual risk of that

happening might be.

If you know, (or if anybody out there knows!) what role does the

flushing play in the whole " oily-skin big-pore " part of rosecea? Does

one preceed or contribute to or cause the other, or does each symptom

generally follow it's own course?

Thanks again for sharing your experience. I hope that things improve

for you and the rest of the group who suffer with that kind of

discomfort and pain.

~Jan

> Sorry if this is digressing a little, but as someone physically

handicapped

> by chronic flushing, I have to put a word in here for those in this

group

> (and there are more than a few of us) for whom flushing and/or

blushing has

> progressed to a stage far beyond being a symptom or condition that

can be

> considered a " skin imperfection " , " sexy " or a " social

sensitivity. " It most

> definitely can become very physically painful and debilitating.

Thankfully,

> most rosacea cases will never progress to this stage, but there are

a

> significant number of us who suffer severe, daily, painful

flushing. When I

> blush or flush it is not cute, and my cheeks do not take on a

healthy glow -

> rather my entire face including my eyes, ears, and sometimes neck,

flush an

> intense red-purple, accompanied by swelling and worst of all,

disabling

> burning and pulsating pain. Believe me, no one who sees me like

this has

> ever found it appealing, instead there is much concern. In my case

it can

> only be managed (so far) by living with a fan blowing directly on

my face

> 24/7, strong medications, and regular photoderm/laser treatments

that have

> been ongoing for the past several years. It is vascular rosacea at

it's

> worst, nothing appealing about it.

>

> Jen

> :

> >

> ><<

> >> oh no, what's so bad about flushing.. everything! first,

flushing

> >> is cosmetically unappealing. your skin should all be the same

> >> colour throughout

> >

> >Obviously the universe of women who use blusher would disagree with

> >you, 007. >>

[Guest guest]

Hi Jen,

Thank you so much for sharing your experience. I'm sorry you have

such a hard time and so much pain.

My question was never intended to suggest that there wasn't ever

anything wrong with flushing; quite the contrary: I was hoping to

find out what I MIGHT be risking if I choose to take a casual

approach to my symptoms.

I've been quite surprised with the response so far. I was sure I

would hear more responses like yours, since so many people stress

avoiding [flushing] triggers. That was very confusing to me, since my

own flushing is not terribly bothersome.

What I've read is that at some point, the flushing of rosecea may not

go away. I don't understand why or when, if ever, that might occur.

But if it were to happen to me, and be accompanied by pain &/or a

burning sensation, I think I'd feel like I screwed myself royally,

especially considering that just rubbing in a little cream every day

is not a lot to do.

Now I am just trying to sort out what my individual risk of that

happening might be.

If you know, (or if anybody out there knows!) what role does the

flushing play in the whole " oily-skin big-pore " part of rosecea? Does

one preceed or contribute to or cause the other, or does each symptom

generally follow it's own course?

Thanks again for sharing your experience. I hope that things improve

for you and the rest of the group who suffer with that kind of

discomfort and pain.

~Jan

> Sorry if this is digressing a little, but as someone physically

handicapped

> by chronic flushing, I have to put a word in here for those in this

group

> (and there are more than a few of us) for whom flushing and/or

blushing has

> progressed to a stage far beyond being a symptom or condition that

can be

> considered a " skin imperfection " , " sexy " or a " social

sensitivity. " It most

> definitely can become very physically painful and debilitating.

Thankfully,

> most rosacea cases will never progress to this stage, but there are

a

> significant number of us who suffer severe, daily, painful

flushing. When I

> blush or flush it is not cute, and my cheeks do not take on a

healthy glow -

> rather my entire face including my eyes, ears, and sometimes neck,

flush an

> intense red-purple, accompanied by swelling and worst of all,

disabling

> burning and pulsating pain. Believe me, no one who sees me like

this has

> ever found it appealing, instead there is much concern. In my case

it can

> only be managed (so far) by living with a fan blowing directly on

my face

> 24/7, strong medications, and regular photoderm/laser treatments

that have

> been ongoing for the past several years. It is vascular rosacea at

it's

> worst, nothing appealing about it.

>

> Jen

> :

> >

> ><<

> >> oh no, what's so bad about flushing.. everything! first,

flushing

> >> is cosmetically unappealing. your skin should all be the same

> >> colour throughout

> >

> >Obviously the universe of women who use blusher would disagree with

> >you, 007. >>

[Guest guest]

Hi Marjorie,

It was not my intention to invalidate anyone's feelings. I am very aware

that blushing is often considered an attractive trait, and in fact in

pre-rosacea days I took it as a compliment when anyone commented on my

healthy, glowing complexion. I'm sure I still would if it were to happen

today I realize that the discussion of flushing/blushing was probably

intended to focus on less severe cases of flushing and blushing, but as Jan

had asked in the original post what was so bad about flushing, I feel it

important to also acknowledge the significance of flushing in rosacea

progression and vascular disease, the fact that at times it can indeed

become extremely physically painful, and that there are many people out

there struggling to get through each day and night with this horrible

physical pain that completely overshadows the cosmetics of the condition.

That is not to diminish in any way the emotional impact of the cosmetic

aspects of rosacea - I know that pain too.

Wishing everyone relief,

Jen

>Jen, I'm sorry to hear things are difficult for you. Of course a

>discussion regarding the more commonplace blushing/flushing

>experiences of rosaceans obviously does not include extreme examples

>such as you describe.

>

>If someone says they find blushing sexy, or doesn't find facial

>flushing a big deal from a social perspective, why invalidate their

>feelings just because you believe it doesn't apply to you, or rule

>out that others might be perceived more favorably than you imagine?

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Marjorie,

It was not my intention to invalidate anyone's feelings. I am very aware

that blushing is often considered an attractive trait, and in fact in

pre-rosacea days I took it as a compliment when anyone commented on my

healthy, glowing complexion. I'm sure I still would if it were to happen

today I realize that the discussion of flushing/blushing was probably

intended to focus on less severe cases of flushing and blushing, but as Jan

had asked in the original post what was so bad about flushing, I feel it

important to also acknowledge the significance of flushing in rosacea

progression and vascular disease, the fact that at times it can indeed

become extremely physically painful, and that there are many people out

there struggling to get through each day and night with this horrible

physical pain that completely overshadows the cosmetics of the condition.

That is not to diminish in any way the emotional impact of the cosmetic

aspects of rosacea - I know that pain too.

Wishing everyone relief,

Jen

>Jen, I'm sorry to hear things are difficult for you. Of course a

>discussion regarding the more commonplace blushing/flushing

>experiences of rosaceans obviously does not include extreme examples

>such as you describe.

>

>If someone says they find blushing sexy, or doesn't find facial

>flushing a big deal from a social perspective, why invalidate their

>feelings just because you believe it doesn't apply to you, or rule

>out that others might be perceived more favorably than you imagine?

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Marjorie,

It was not my intention to invalidate anyone's feelings. I am very aware

that blushing is often considered an attractive trait, and in fact in

pre-rosacea days I took it as a compliment when anyone commented on my

healthy, glowing complexion. I'm sure I still would if it were to happen

today I realize that the discussion of flushing/blushing was probably

intended to focus on less severe cases of flushing and blushing, but as Jan

had asked in the original post what was so bad about flushing, I feel it

important to also acknowledge the significance of flushing in rosacea

progression and vascular disease, the fact that at times it can indeed

become extremely physically painful, and that there are many people out

there struggling to get through each day and night with this horrible

physical pain that completely overshadows the cosmetics of the condition.

That is not to diminish in any way the emotional impact of the cosmetic

aspects of rosacea - I know that pain too.

Wishing everyone relief,

Jen

>Jen, I'm sorry to hear things are difficult for you. Of course a

>discussion regarding the more commonplace blushing/flushing

>experiences of rosaceans obviously does not include extreme examples

>such as you describe.

>

>If someone says they find blushing sexy, or doesn't find facial

>flushing a big deal from a social perspective, why invalidate their

>feelings just because you believe it doesn't apply to you, or rule

>out that others might be perceived more favorably than you imagine?

>

[Guest guest]

Flushing leads to angiogenesis, then angiogenesis leads to sebaceous

hyperplasia, which is the cause of oiliness and large pores.

> > Sorry if this is digressing a little, but as someone physically

> handicapped

> > by chronic flushing, I have to put a word in here for those in

this

> group

> > (and there are more than a few of us) for whom flushing and/or

> blushing has

> > progressed to a stage far beyond being a symptom or condition

that

> can be

> > considered a " skin imperfection " , " sexy " or a " social

> sensitivity. " It most

> > definitely can become very physically painful and debilitating.

> Thankfully,

> > most rosacea cases will never progress to this stage, but there

are

> a

> > significant number of us who suffer severe, daily, painful

> flushing. When I

> > blush or flush it is not cute, and my cheeks do not take on a

> healthy glow -

> > rather my entire face including my eyes, ears, and sometimes

neck,

> flush an

> > intense red-purple, accompanied by swelling and worst of all,

> disabling

> > burning and pulsating pain. Believe me, no one who sees me like

> this has

> > ever found it appealing, instead there is much concern. In my

case

> it can

> > only be managed (so far) by living with a fan blowing directly on

> my face

> > 24/7, strong medications, and regular photoderm/laser treatments

> that have

> > been ongoing for the past several years. It is vascular rosacea

at

> it's

> > worst, nothing appealing about it.

> >

> > Jen

> > :

> > >

> > ><<

> > >> oh no, what's so bad about flushing.. everything! first,

> flushing

> > >> is cosmetically unappealing. your skin should all be the same

> > >> colour throughout

> > >

> > >Obviously the universe of women who use blusher would disagree

with

> > >you, 007. >>

[Guest guest]

Jen, I appreciate your personal difficulties and perspective. Here's

an analogy that may help explain my comments: imagine a group of

breast cancer patients sharing their experiences with Stage 1 cancer

being suddenly confronted with someone at Stage 4, describing what

she's going through. Can you see how hard it would be to resume

discussion without the less ill people appearing insensitive or

overly dramatic? It doesn't matter whether the person with Stage 4

cancer can empathize with those at Stage 1. By simply describing her

suffering in this context, the confrontation has already taken place,

her person's suffering trumps everyone else's suffering.

But the analogy falls apart in one important respect: unlike a Stage

4 breast cancer patient whose input can be of value to encourage

compliance among Stage 1 patients, your description falls well

outside the natural progression of rosacea. It's not the same

situation here since even untreated, rosaceans should not worry that

they are likely to ever experience what unfortunately you and others

do. Untreated rosacea may result in continued flushing, inflammation

and edema, with progression to telangectasias and phymas and eye

damage over the years and decades -- but not the kind of flushing and

facial pain you describe. So I don't agree in this context it

was " important to acknowlege the significance of flushing in rosacea

progression and vascular disease, " at least the extreme description

you gave.

But what you're going through is deserving of attention in its own

right. If you're comfortable sharing your care publicly, what

medications do you find most helpful for controlling your flushing

and pain? What kind of phototherapy did you undergo, and how helpful

was it? Is your condition stable at the present time, improving, or

progressive?

Marjorie

Marjorie Lazoff, MD

> Hi Marjorie,

>

> It was not my intention to invalidate anyone's feelings. I am very

aware

> that blushing is often considered an attractive trait, and in fact

in

> pre-rosacea days I took it as a compliment when anyone commented on

my

> healthy, glowing complexion. I'm sure I still would if it were to

happen

> today I realize that the discussion of flushing/blushing was

probably

> intended to focus on less severe cases of flushing and blushing,

but as Jan

> had asked in the original post what was so bad about flushing, I

feel it

> important to also acknowledge the significance of flushing in

rosacea

> progression and vascular disease, the fact that at times it can

indeed

> become extremely physically painful, and that there are many people

out

> there struggling to get through each day and night with this

horrible

> physical pain that completely overshadows the cosmetics of the

condition.

> That is not to diminish in any way the emotional impact of the

cosmetic

> aspects of rosacea - I know that pain too.

>

> Wishing everyone relief,

> Jen

>

> >Jen, I'm sorry to hear things are difficult for you. Of course a

> >discussion regarding the more commonplace blushing/flushing

> >experiences of rosaceans obviously does not include extreme

examples

> >such as you describe.

> >

> >If someone says they find blushing sexy, or doesn't find facial

> >flushing a big deal from a social perspective, why invalidate their

> >feelings just because you believe it doesn't apply to you, or rule

> >out that others might be perceived more favorably than you imagine?

> >

[Guest guest]

Jen, I appreciate your personal difficulties and perspective. Here's

an analogy that may help explain my comments: imagine a group of

breast cancer patients sharing their experiences with Stage 1 cancer

being suddenly confronted with someone at Stage 4, describing what

she's going through. Can you see how hard it would be to resume

discussion without the less ill people appearing insensitive or

overly dramatic? It doesn't matter whether the person with Stage 4

cancer can empathize with those at Stage 1. By simply describing her

suffering in this context, the confrontation has already taken place,

her person's suffering trumps everyone else's suffering.

But the analogy falls apart in one important respect: unlike a Stage

4 breast cancer patient whose input can be of value to encourage

compliance among Stage 1 patients, your description falls well

outside the natural progression of rosacea. It's not the same

situation here since even untreated, rosaceans should not worry that

they are likely to ever experience what unfortunately you and others

do. Untreated rosacea may result in continued flushing, inflammation

and edema, with progression to telangectasias and phymas and eye

damage over the years and decades -- but not the kind of flushing and

facial pain you describe. So I don't agree in this context it

was " important to acknowlege the significance of flushing in rosacea

progression and vascular disease, " at least the extreme description

you gave.

But what you're going through is deserving of attention in its own

right. If you're comfortable sharing your care publicly, what

medications do you find most helpful for controlling your flushing

and pain? What kind of phototherapy did you undergo, and how helpful

was it? Is your condition stable at the present time, improving, or

progressive?

Marjorie

Marjorie Lazoff, MD

> Hi Marjorie,

>

> It was not my intention to invalidate anyone's feelings. I am very

aware

> that blushing is often considered an attractive trait, and in fact

in

> pre-rosacea days I took it as a compliment when anyone commented on

my

> healthy, glowing complexion. I'm sure I still would if it were to

happen

> today I realize that the discussion of flushing/blushing was

probably

> intended to focus on less severe cases of flushing and blushing,

but as Jan

> had asked in the original post what was so bad about flushing, I

feel it

> important to also acknowledge the significance of flushing in

rosacea

> progression and vascular disease, the fact that at times it can

indeed

> become extremely physically painful, and that there are many people

out

> there struggling to get through each day and night with this

horrible

> physical pain that completely overshadows the cosmetics of the

condition.

> That is not to diminish in any way the emotional impact of the

cosmetic

> aspects of rosacea - I know that pain too.

>

> Wishing everyone relief,

> Jen

>

> >Jen, I'm sorry to hear things are difficult for you. Of course a

> >discussion regarding the more commonplace blushing/flushing

> >experiences of rosaceans obviously does not include extreme

examples

> >such as you describe.

> >

> >If someone says they find blushing sexy, or doesn't find facial

> >flushing a big deal from a social perspective, why invalidate their

> >feelings just because you believe it doesn't apply to you, or rule

> >out that others might be perceived more favorably than you imagine?

> >

[Guest guest]

(I just wanna say ahead of time that I dont want to speak for anybody here,

so sorry if I say something wrong, offensive, or negative)

It is true that Jen's case is unusually severe, but its absolutely important

to understand exactly how severe flushing can be. Maybe everyone with

cea doesn't have to live with a fan on their face every day, but it is

important to understand the entire possible spectrum of this disorder.

Also, even if most people with cea don't have such a debilitating pain,

ALOT of rosacea sufferers do have varying degrees of facial discomfort. Dr.

Nase even explains in his book that cea can become physically

debilitating, and that the burning associated with cea is greatly

underestimated by general physicians and dermatologists. He goes on to say

that MOST cea sufferers do suffer from facial burning. The National

cea Society says over 60% of cea sufferers have facial

itching/burning, and I believe Dr. Nase claims the percentage might be even

higher than that. That leaves seven million or more americans with varying

degrees of facial discomfort, which I think makes it very important to

discuss. Many people with cea will be fortunately enough never to have

this problem, but alot of us do.

I think the reason your analogy does not work, is because you are working

under a misconception. Unfortunately it is a very common misconception,

which i believe is at least partially responsible for the complete lack of

proper cea research. Dr. Nase says in his book in a chapter entitled:

" Common Misconceptions That General Physicians Have About cea "

Under the heading: " Misconception #2: Most cea sufferers are in the Mild

Stages of the Disorder "

He explains that it is NOT true that most cea sufferers are only in the

mild stages. He says that " numerous studies demonstrate that more than half

of cea sufferers seen by physicians are in the moderate to severe

stages " . Most studies showed that the numbers were probably somewhere betwe

en 58-67%. The claim that most cea sufferers only have a mild case is a

huge misconception, sort of like cea just being " adult acne " .. Its

really widely known, but its just not true.

I'm sorry if this turned out to be too negative, because I understand the

importance of a positive attitude, but it does none of us any good to

downplay the possible severity of this problem. It would just be living in

denial. If cea were just a cute, trivial disorder, 75% of cea

sufferers surveyed would not say it lowered their self-esteem, and certainly

56% of cea sufferers surveyed would not have said that cea has

robbed them of their pleasure/happiness.

Re: Flushing appeal (was: Re-bound effect?)

>

> Jen, I appreciate your personal difficulties and perspective. Here's

> an analogy that may help explain my comments: imagine a group of

> breast cancer patients sharing their experiences with Stage 1 cancer

> being suddenly confronted with someone at Stage 4, describing what

> she's going through. Can you see how hard it would be to resume

> discussion without the less ill people appearing insensitive or

> overly dramatic? It doesn't matter whether the person with Stage 4

> cancer can empathize with those at Stage 1. By simply describing her

> suffering in this context, the confrontation has already taken place,

> her person's suffering trumps everyone else's suffering.

>

> But the analogy falls apart in one important respect: unlike a Stage

> 4 breast cancer patient whose input can be of value to encourage

> compliance among Stage 1 patients, your description falls well

> outside the natural progression of rosacea. It's not the same

> situation here since even untreated, rosaceans should not worry that

> they are likely to ever experience what unfortunately you and others

> do. Untreated rosacea may result in continued flushing, inflammation

> and edema, with progression to telangectasias and phymas and eye

> damage over the years and decades -- but not the kind of flushing and

> facial pain you describe. So I don't agree in this context it

> was " important to acknowlege the significance of flushing in rosacea

> progression and vascular disease, " at least the extreme description

> you gave.

>

> But what you're going through is deserving of attention in its own

> right. If you're comfortable sharing your care publicly, what

> medications do you find most helpful for controlling your flushing

> and pain? What kind of phototherapy did you undergo, and how helpful

> was it? Is your condition stable at the present time, improving, or

> progressive?

>

> Marjorie

>

> Marjorie Lazoff, MD

>

>

> > Hi Marjorie,

> >

> > It was not my intention to invalidate anyone's feelings. I am very

> aware

> > that blushing is often considered an attractive trait, and in fact

> in

> > pre-rosacea days I took it as a compliment when anyone commented on

> my

> > healthy, glowing complexion. I'm sure I still would if it were to

> happen

> > today I realize that the discussion of flushing/blushing was

> probably

> > intended to focus on less severe cases of flushing and blushing,

> but as Jan

> > had asked in the original post what was so bad about flushing, I

> feel it

> > important to also acknowledge the significance of flushing in

> rosacea

> > progression and vascular disease, the fact that at times it can

> indeed

> > become extremely physically painful, and that there are many people

> out

> > there struggling to get through each day and night with this

> horrible

> > physical pain that completely overshadows the cosmetics of the

> condition.

> > That is not to diminish in any way the emotional impact of the

> cosmetic

> > aspects of rosacea - I know that pain too.

> >

> > Wishing everyone relief,

> > Jen

> >

> > >Jen, I'm sorry to hear things are difficult for you. Of course a

> > >discussion regarding the more commonplace blushing/flushing

> > >experiences of rosaceans obviously does not include extreme

> examples

> > >such as you describe.

> > >

> > >If someone says they find blushing sexy, or doesn't find facial

> > >flushing a big deal from a social perspective, why invalidate their

> > >feelings just because you believe it doesn't apply to you, or rule

> > >out that others might be perceived more favorably than you imagine?

> > >

>

>

>

> --

> Please read the list highlights before posting to the whole group

(http://rosacea.ii.net/toc.html). Your post will be delayed if you don't

give a meaningful subject or trim your reply text. You must change the

subject when replying to a digest !

>

> See http://www.drnase.com for info on his recently published book.

>

> To leave the list send an email to

rosacea-support-unsubscribe

>

>

[Guest guest]

(I just wanna say ahead of time that I dont want to speak for anybody here,

so sorry if I say something wrong, offensive, or negative)

It is true that Jen's case is unusually severe, but its absolutely important

to understand exactly how severe flushing can be. Maybe everyone with

cea doesn't have to live with a fan on their face every day, but it is

important to understand the entire possible spectrum of this disorder.

Also, even if most people with cea don't have such a debilitating pain,

ALOT of rosacea sufferers do have varying degrees of facial discomfort. Dr.

Nase even explains in his book that cea can become physically

debilitating, and that the burning associated with cea is greatly

underestimated by general physicians and dermatologists. He goes on to say

that MOST cea sufferers do suffer from facial burning. The National

cea Society says over 60% of cea sufferers have facial

itching/burning, and I believe Dr. Nase claims the percentage might be even

higher than that. That leaves seven million or more americans with varying

degrees of facial discomfort, which I think makes it very important to

discuss. Many people with cea will be fortunately enough never to have

this problem, but alot of us do.

I think the reason your analogy does not work, is because you are working

under a misconception. Unfortunately it is a very common misconception,

which i believe is at least partially responsible for the complete lack of

proper cea research. Dr. Nase says in his book in a chapter entitled:

" Common Misconceptions That General Physicians Have About cea "

Under the heading: " Misconception #2: Most cea sufferers are in the Mild

Stages of the Disorder "

He explains that it is NOT true that most cea sufferers are only in the

mild stages. He says that " numerous studies demonstrate that more than half

of cea sufferers seen by physicians are in the moderate to severe

stages " . Most studies showed that the numbers were probably somewhere betwe

en 58-67%. The claim that most cea sufferers only have a mild case is a

huge misconception, sort of like cea just being " adult acne " .. Its

really widely known, but its just not true.

I'm sorry if this turned out to be too negative, because I understand the

importance of a positive attitude, but it does none of us any good to

downplay the possible severity of this problem. It would just be living in

denial. If cea were just a cute, trivial disorder, 75% of cea

sufferers surveyed would not say it lowered their self-esteem, and certainly

56% of cea sufferers surveyed would not have said that cea has

robbed them of their pleasure/happiness.

Re: Flushing appeal (was: Re-bound effect?)

>

> Jen, I appreciate your personal difficulties and perspective. Here's

> an analogy that may help explain my comments: imagine a group of

> breast cancer patients sharing their experiences with Stage 1 cancer

> being suddenly confronted with someone at Stage 4, describing what

> she's going through. Can you see how hard it would be to resume

> discussion without the less ill people appearing insensitive or

> overly dramatic? It doesn't matter whether the person with Stage 4

> cancer can empathize with those at Stage 1. By simply describing her

> suffering in this context, the confrontation has already taken place,

> her person's suffering trumps everyone else's suffering.

>

> But the analogy falls apart in one important respect: unlike a Stage

> 4 breast cancer patient whose input can be of value to encourage

> compliance among Stage 1 patients, your description falls well

> outside the natural progression of rosacea. It's not the same

> situation here since even untreated, rosaceans should not worry that

> they are likely to ever experience what unfortunately you and others

> do. Untreated rosacea may result in continued flushing, inflammation

> and edema, with progression to telangectasias and phymas and eye

> damage over the years and decades -- but not the kind of flushing and

> facial pain you describe. So I don't agree in this context it

> was " important to acknowlege the significance of flushing in rosacea

> progression and vascular disease, " at least the extreme description

> you gave.

>

> But what you're going through is deserving of attention in its own

> right. If you're comfortable sharing your care publicly, what

> medications do you find most helpful for controlling your flushing

> and pain? What kind of phototherapy did you undergo, and how helpful

> was it? Is your condition stable at the present time, improving, or

> progressive?

>

> Marjorie

>

> Marjorie Lazoff, MD

>

>

> > Hi Marjorie,

> >

> > It was not my intention to invalidate anyone's feelings. I am very

> aware

> > that blushing is often considered an attractive trait, and in fact

> in

> > pre-rosacea days I took it as a compliment when anyone commented on

> my

> > healthy, glowing complexion. I'm sure I still would if it were to

> happen

> > today I realize that the discussion of flushing/blushing was

> probably

> > intended to focus on less severe cases of flushing and blushing,

> but as Jan

> > had asked in the original post what was so bad about flushing, I

> feel it

> > important to also acknowledge the significance of flushing in

> rosacea

> > progression and vascular disease, the fact that at times it can

> indeed

> > become extremely physically painful, and that there are many people

> out

> > there struggling to get through each day and night with this

> horrible

> > physical pain that completely overshadows the cosmetics of the

> condition.

> > That is not to diminish in any way the emotional impact of the

> cosmetic

> > aspects of rosacea - I know that pain too.

> >

> > Wishing everyone relief,

> > Jen

> >

> > >Jen, I'm sorry to hear things are difficult for you. Of course a

> > >discussion regarding the more commonplace blushing/flushing

> > >experiences of rosaceans obviously does not include extreme

> examples

> > >such as you describe.

> > >

> > >If someone says they find blushing sexy, or doesn't find facial

> > >flushing a big deal from a social perspective, why invalidate their

> > >feelings just because you believe it doesn't apply to you, or rule

> > >out that others might be perceived more favorably than you imagine?

> > >

>

>

>

> --

> Please read the list highlights before posting to the whole group

(http://rosacea.ii.net/toc.html). Your post will be delayed if you don't

give a meaningful subject or trim your reply text. You must change the

subject when replying to a digest !

>

> See http://www.drnase.com for info on his recently published book.

>

> To leave the list send an email to

rosacea-support-unsubscribe

>

>

[Guest guest]

(I just wanna say ahead of time that I dont want to speak for anybody here,

so sorry if I say something wrong, offensive, or negative)

It is true that Jen's case is unusually severe, but its absolutely important

to understand exactly how severe flushing can be. Maybe everyone with

cea doesn't have to live with a fan on their face every day, but it is

important to understand the entire possible spectrum of this disorder.

Also, even if most people with cea don't have such a debilitating pain,

ALOT of rosacea sufferers do have varying degrees of facial discomfort. Dr.

Nase even explains in his book that cea can become physically

debilitating, and that the burning associated with cea is greatly

underestimated by general physicians and dermatologists. He goes on to say

that MOST cea sufferers do suffer from facial burning. The National

cea Society says over 60% of cea sufferers have facial

itching/burning, and I believe Dr. Nase claims the percentage might be even

higher than that. That leaves seven million or more americans with varying

degrees of facial discomfort, which I think makes it very important to

discuss. Many people with cea will be fortunately enough never to have

this problem, but alot of us do.

I think the reason your analogy does not work, is because you are working

under a misconception. Unfortunately it is a very common misconception,

which i believe is at least partially responsible for the complete lack of

proper cea research. Dr. Nase says in his book in a chapter entitled:

" Common Misconceptions That General Physicians Have About cea "

Under the heading: " Misconception #2: Most cea sufferers are in the Mild

Stages of the Disorder "

He explains that it is NOT true that most cea sufferers are only in the

mild stages. He says that " numerous studies demonstrate that more than half

of cea sufferers seen by physicians are in the moderate to severe

stages " . Most studies showed that the numbers were probably somewhere betwe

en 58-67%. The claim that most cea sufferers only have a mild case is a

huge misconception, sort of like cea just being " adult acne " .. Its

really widely known, but its just not true.

I'm sorry if this turned out to be too negative, because I understand the

importance of a positive attitude, but it does none of us any good to

downplay the possible severity of this problem. It would just be living in

denial. If cea were just a cute, trivial disorder, 75% of cea

sufferers surveyed would not say it lowered their self-esteem, and certainly

56% of cea sufferers surveyed would not have said that cea has

robbed them of their pleasure/happiness.

Re: Flushing appeal (was: Re-bound effect?)

>

> Jen, I appreciate your personal difficulties and perspective. Here's

> an analogy that may help explain my comments: imagine a group of

> breast cancer patients sharing their experiences with Stage 1 cancer

> being suddenly confronted with someone at Stage 4, describing what

> she's going through. Can you see how hard it would be to resume

> discussion without the less ill people appearing insensitive or

> overly dramatic? It doesn't matter whether the person with Stage 4

> cancer can empathize with those at Stage 1. By simply describing her

> suffering in this context, the confrontation has already taken place,

> her person's suffering trumps everyone else's suffering.

>

> But the analogy falls apart in one important respect: unlike a Stage

> 4 breast cancer patient whose input can be of value to encourage

> compliance among Stage 1 patients, your description falls well

> outside the natural progression of rosacea. It's not the same

> situation here since even untreated, rosaceans should not worry that

> they are likely to ever experience what unfortunately you and others

> do. Untreated rosacea may result in continued flushing, inflammation

> and edema, with progression to telangectasias and phymas and eye

> damage over the years and decades -- but not the kind of flushing and

> facial pain you describe. So I don't agree in this context it

> was " important to acknowlege the significance of flushing in rosacea

> progression and vascular disease, " at least the extreme description

> you gave.

>

> But what you're going through is deserving of attention in its own

> right. If you're comfortable sharing your care publicly, what

> medications do you find most helpful for controlling your flushing

> and pain? What kind of phototherapy did you undergo, and how helpful

> was it? Is your condition stable at the present time, improving, or

> progressive?

>

> Marjorie

>

> Marjorie Lazoff, MD

>

>

> > Hi Marjorie,

> >

> > It was not my intention to invalidate anyone's feelings. I am very

> aware

> > that blushing is often considered an attractive trait, and in fact

> in

> > pre-rosacea days I took it as a compliment when anyone commented on

> my

> > healthy, glowing complexion. I'm sure I still would if it were to

> happen

> > today I realize that the discussion of flushing/blushing was

> probably

> > intended to focus on less severe cases of flushing and blushing,

> but as Jan

> > had asked in the original post what was so bad about flushing, I

> feel it

> > important to also acknowledge the significance of flushing in

> rosacea

> > progression and vascular disease, the fact that at times it can

> indeed

> > become extremely physically painful, and that there are many people

> out

> > there struggling to get through each day and night with this

> horrible

> > physical pain that completely overshadows the cosmetics of the

> condition.

> > That is not to diminish in any way the emotional impact of the

> cosmetic

> > aspects of rosacea - I know that pain too.

> >

> > Wishing everyone relief,

> > Jen

> >

> > >Jen, I'm sorry to hear things are difficult for you. Of course a

> > >discussion regarding the more commonplace blushing/flushing

> > >experiences of rosaceans obviously does not include extreme

> examples

> > >such as you describe.

> > >

> > >If someone says they find blushing sexy, or doesn't find facial

> > >flushing a big deal from a social perspective, why invalidate their

> > >feelings just because you believe it doesn't apply to you, or rule

> > >out that others might be perceived more favorably than you imagine?

> > >

>

>

>

> --

> Please read the list highlights before posting to the whole group

(http://rosacea.ii.net/toc.html). Your post will be delayed if you don't

give a meaningful subject or trim your reply text. You must change the

subject when replying to a digest !

>

> See http://www.drnase.com for info on his recently published book.

>

> To leave the list send an email to

rosacea-support-unsubscribe

>

>