Re: Autism - THE MISSING LINK: Is this it?

[Guest guest]

I would like to say here that I agree with Dana in that no two

autistic kids are the same(any more than two nt kids are) and can

never be clumped together. I despise when people say " Kids like

yours " or something along those lines. Autistic adults as well. I

am not autistic but I,too felt Dana was being attacked for

disagreeing-which was all she was doing. I disagreed in my post as

well and felt my opinion was trivialized. Well, my daughter does not

fit in with most of the descriptions on that particular site(I found

it quite busy as well in trying to navigate it.) I appreciate anyone

discovering something that helps their child and perhaps other

children as well. I do not appreciate being told I am missing

something because I disagree.

> > Dana - you don't need to get so defensive... )

>

>

> I am never defensive. I state my opinion objectively. I dislike

> that people would consider all autistic children " the same " .

>

>

> >

> > I've been writing this stuff up for the last two weeks almost non

> stop

> > to get this out to parents so that they can decide for

themselves...

> > if my wording is not " 100% " accurate, I can update it somewhat.

>

>

> That might be helpful.

>

>

> >

> > As far as every child being different, again, you obviously

missed

> the

> > section on my site that addressed why this theory explains " why

they

> > can all be so different " .

>

>

> Your site is too busy for me to find most things, but if you have a

> section for that, then that is good. Maybe you can make your site

> easier to find things?

>

> But then you say your theory " explains autistic kids " . So to me,

that

> is inconsistent and confusing. You might want to make it more

> understandable.

>

>

> >> I'm sorry Dana, but there is just too much

> > explained by this to just " brush it off " ... it just puts too many

> > things together.

>

>

> Then don't brush it off. Put your ideas on your site, tell people

> about it, and it will probably help many kids/parents.

>

>

> > And, yes, perhaps this doesn't explain everything for every child

> out

> > there... but I suspect it explains a great deal for many many of

> > them!...

>

>

> You can believe this, that is fine. And I can disagree, that is

also

> fine.

>

>

> >> and if this can help us understand as parents, why turn this

> > into a " nasty discussion " .

>

>

> I did not turn it into a nasty discussion. I disagreed with you.

> Does disagreement make things nasty? Sorry, I don't understand why

> that would be so.

>

>

> >> I don't take things personally...and

> > there is no need for you to either...

>

>

> I didn't. Just because I disagree with someone, does not mean I

took

> it negatively, or personally. It just means I disagreed.

>

>

> >> When I stated you were " missing

> > the point " , it wasn't in a negative way, Dana...

>

>

> I did not understand it as negative. Just that you stated [with

the

> word TOTALLY in capital letters, which I considered a semi-slap but

> chose to ignore] I was missing your point, and I agreed that maybe

I

> was, but then you might want to rephrase your point.

>

> Dana

[Guest guest]

prehaps try this site, this is how we have taught our child to read and to

talk and to do sports and lots of other things, teaching the parts and then

putting it together, and checking for comprhension via teaching through a

variety of different learning chanels etc.

Cheer H www.precisionteaching.com.au

[ ] Re: Autism - THE MISSING LINK: Is this it?

> What I am trying to say...LOL... I never thought this would be so

> difficult to explain... is that, at least in my son, and I suspect

> many other children as well.... I can explan A TON of stuff based

> solely on one thing:

>

> My child can not understand " the whole " without first understanding

> the " parts " that make up the whole. So, he couldn't understand " a

> word " without first understanding the parts to a word... the fact that

> there is this thing called the alphabet made up of letters... and that

> each letter has a sound or sounds associated with it... and that you

> can put letters together to make a word.

>

> Only after he understood all that, did he understand the concept of

> " words " and how you use them.

>

> I don't know how else to say it folks... just that to " understand " the

> whole... they need to understand the " parts " that make up the

> whole... starting with the very very lowest level possible.

>

> Can kids learn other ways? I'm sure they can... I'm simply saying

> that " defining the parts " makes learning a lot easier and helps move

> them forward a lot faster since they need to " categorize " everything

> before they can understand it.

>

> Again, that's why I think we see so much variability in these kids and

> how they learn... how you label things, when you label things, etc.

> for them makes a huge huge difference in my opinion.

>

> I know that what I'm proposing is very new to everyone... no matter

> how " simple " it seems... but, when you truly grasp " what I'm saying "

> then I think a lot more of it will fall into place.

>

> My best advice is just to read the materials I provided and think

> about it. By the way, French is my first language (I did not really

> speak much english until 8th grade) so, maybe I'm not as accurate in

> my wording as I need to be... although I really thought I was. I

> think really, it is honestly just going to take time for people to

> look at things in a new way.

>

> I added a link at the top of my site called: How to use the info on

> this site... maybe that will help some of you too!

>

> Jeanne A. Brohart

> http://www.autismhelpforyou.com

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> > In a message dated 8/1/02 11:50:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

> > danaatty@y... writes:

> >

> >

> > > But if you cannot articulate

> > > your point so that people can understand it, then perhaps you need

> to

> > > rephrase it, or perhaps you do not understand it yourself.

> > >

> >

> > Hi,

> > I'm also having trouble understanding what you mean. I went

> to your

> > site because I thought you were talking about the way my son

> thinks/learns:

> > He has trouble grasping the whole, the entire gestalt of things. He

> cannot

> > extrapolate meaning from the entire thing -- he gets stuck on

> detail. In

> > other words, he can see a tree, but not the entire forest. He's

> great with

> > straight, rote facts. Not critical thinking.

> > Can you clarify? I was following you at first but then you

> lost me. I

> > have a dash of autism also.

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Ok, but this is how most all children learn. You learn the alphabet

letter by letter before you learn what a word is or how to read. You

learn what numbers are before you can count. I guess I don't say how

this pertains to autism per say. I don't think that is a new concept

but like you say-maybe you are seeing something in this theory some

of us are not. I don't really see how this relates to children

obsessing about order. My daughter doesn't do that at all-more like

what said order just makes life easier-but not to any obsessive

point.

---

In @y..., " autismhelpforyou " <autismhelpforyou@c...>

wrote:

> What I am trying to say...LOL... I never thought this would be so

> difficult to explain... is that, at least in my son, and I suspect

> many other children as well.... I can explan A TON of stuff based

> solely on one thing:

>

> My child can not understand " the whole " without first understanding

> the " parts " that make up the whole. So, he couldn't understand " a

> word " without first understanding the parts to a word... the fact

that

> there is this thing called the alphabet made up of letters... and

that

> each letter has a sound or sounds associated with it... and that

you

> can put letters together to make a word.

>

> Only after he understood all that, did he understand the concept of

> " words " and how you use them.

>

> I don't know how else to say it folks... just that to " understand "

the

> whole... they need to understand the " parts " that make up the

> whole... starting with the very very lowest level possible.

>

> Can kids learn other ways? I'm sure they can... I'm simply saying

> that " defining the parts " makes learning a lot easier and helps

move

> them forward a lot faster since they need to " categorize "

everything

> before they can understand it.

>

> Again, that's why I think we see so much variability in these kids

and

> how they learn... how you label things, when you label things, etc.

> for them makes a huge huge difference in my opinion.

>

> I know that what I'm proposing is very new to everyone... no matter

> how " simple " it seems... but, when you truly grasp " what I'm

saying "

> then I think a lot more of it will fall into place.

>

> My best advice is just to read the materials I provided and think

> about it. By the way, French is my first language (I did not

really

> speak much english until 8th grade) so, maybe I'm not as accurate

in

> my wording as I need to be... although I really thought I was. I

> think really, it is honestly just going to take time for people to

> look at things in a new way.

>

> I added a link at the top of my site called: How to use the info

on

> this site... maybe that will help some of you too!

>

> Jeanne A. Brohart

> http://www.autismhelpforyou.com

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> > In a message dated 8/1/02 11:50:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

> > danaatty@y... writes:

> >

> >

> > > But if you cannot articulate

> > > your point so that people can understand it, then perhaps you

need

> to

> > > rephrase it, or perhaps you do not understand it yourself.

> > >

> >

> > Hi,

> > I'm also having trouble understanding what you mean. I

went

> to your

> > site because I thought you were talking about the way my son

> thinks/learns:

> > He has trouble grasping the whole, the entire gestalt of things.

He

> cannot

> > extrapolate meaning from the entire thing -- he gets stuck on

> detail. In

> > other words, he can see a tree, but not the entire forest. He's

> great with

> > straight, rote facts. Not critical thinking.

> > Can you clarify? I was following you at first but then you

> lost me. I

> > have a dash of autism also.

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

,

I did not say Dana was " missing something " because she disagreed...

she was " missing something " because she was talking about the role of

" order " in her child... and missed the part on partiality...it wasn't

her " disagreeing " that I was refering to in any way... nor with

yours.. and I'm sorry you took it that way. Also, in no way did I

ever say that autistic children are all the same... you are correct,

all children are different, whether normal or not, but this theory

does help explain some of the variation among these children.

The fact remains... they are similar enough to all have the same type

of label... aren't they... and it is those " similarities " I have

focused on addressing!

I put this out to parents for them to decide on their own if this

applies to their child... I know these issues are 100% true for my son

and other autistic children I have seen... so, if it is true for them,

I suspect it is true for many many others as well. If you don't feel

your child " applies " ... that's fine... you are entitled to keep

looking for your missing link... I just know I have definitely found

mine. I look forward to the day that you find yours also! )

Jeanne A.Brohart

http://www.autismhelpforyou.com

> > > Dana - you don't need to get so defensive... )

> >

> >

> > I am never defensive. I state my opinion objectively. I dislike

> > that people would consider all autistic children " the same " .

> >

> >

> > >

> > > I've been writing this stuff up for the last two weeks almost

non

> > stop

> > > to get this out to parents so that they can decide for

> themselves...

> > > if my wording is not " 100% " accurate, I can update it somewhat.

> >

> >

> > That might be helpful.

> >

> >

> > >

> > > As far as every child being different, again, you obviously

> missed

> > the

> > > section on my site that addressed why this theory explains " why

> they

> > > can all be so different " .

> >

> >

> > Your site is too busy for me to find most things, but if you have

a

> > section for that, then that is good. Maybe you can make your site

> > easier to find things?

> >

> > But then you say your theory " explains autistic kids " . So to me,

> that

> > is inconsistent and confusing. You might want to make it more

> > understandable.

> >

> >

> > >> I'm sorry Dana, but there is just too much

> > > explained by this to just " brush it off " ... it just puts too

many

> > > things together.

> >

> >

> > Then don't brush it off. Put your ideas on your site, tell people

> > about it, and it will probably help many kids/parents.

> >

> >

> > > And, yes, perhaps this doesn't explain everything for every

child

> > out

> > > there... but I suspect it explains a great deal for many many of

> > > them!...

> >

> >

> > You can believe this, that is fine. And I can disagree, that is

> also

> > fine.

> >

> >

> > >> and if this can help us understand as parents, why turn this

> > > into a " nasty discussion " .

> >

> >

> > I did not turn it into a nasty discussion. I disagreed with you.

> > Does disagreement make things nasty? Sorry, I don't understand

why

> > that would be so.

> >

> >

> > >> I don't take things personally...and

> > > there is no need for you to either...

> >

> >

> > I didn't. Just because I disagree with someone, does not mean I

> took

> > it negatively, or personally. It just means I disagreed.

> >

> >

> > >> When I stated you were " missing

> > > the point " , it wasn't in a negative way, Dana...

> >

> >

> > I did not understand it as negative. Just that you stated [with

> the

> > word TOTALLY in capital letters, which I considered a semi-slap

but

> > chose to ignore] I was missing your point, and I agreed that maybe

> I

> > was, but then you might want to rephrase your point.

> >

> > Dana

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/1/2002 9:39:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

autismhelpforyou@... writes:

> " . I met one mother whose son was 7

> and could say only 20 words... she was absolutely amazed at how much

> further Zachary was... and I see this over and over and over again...

> and when I ask how their children are taught, sure enough, it is with

> pictures... and they can't read!

My son communicates with pictures and reads above age level. If it weren't

for PECS, my son would likely be in an institution right now. Instead, he's

talking, reading, spelling and learning math. So in our case, pictures saved

our child's life, and I've seen it happening with the kids all over the

school district...the severely autistic kids....who everyone had given up on

before as hopeless cases.

Liane Gentry Skye

<A HREF= " http://talkingwithpictures.com/ " >Talking With Pictures</A>

" nonverbal " does not have to mean " unable to communicate "

[Guest guest]

I got a great explanation that allowed me to understand my son from

Stanley Greenspan's The Child With Special Needs. For the first time I

really understood why the different issues could unite kids on the

spectrum but also make them and their programmatic needs so different.

My son has terrific emotional development, for example. But his motor

planning is not always connected to affect and desire in all cases.

Perhaps you might benefit from reading that book, and

addressing his 15 years of research with autistic kids of all

levels and variety to your theory. I can see you are earnest. The neat

thing about Greenspan is that he firmly believes that if you don't

draw generalizations about these children, but work on what their

interests and individual issues are along sensory, motor planning,

underreactive or overreactive, etc, you can build an individualized

program that is as diverse as are our children. It's analysis based on

the individual rather than generalization. I think you are one

terrific mom for figuring out your son. Rose

[Guest guest]

,

If you think about how many autistic children are taught, they use

things like PECS and other " images " to try to teach them... I'm saying

they need to be taught like other kids too... alphabet, then phonics,

then words, then words as labels of things. Teaching how to read to

autistic children is a new concept for those who are taught sight

reading with pictures/words... they are not taught the " normal way "

and that is what they need... to be taught " the normal way " . Pictures

tell these kids very little... compared to what I believe they could

be learning in the same amount of time were they taught based on the

" regular building blocks approach " . I met one mother whose son was 7

and could say only 20 words... she was absolutely amazed at how much

further Zachary was... and I see this over and over and over again...

and when I ask how their children are taught, sure enough, it is with

pictures... and they can't read! The children, in my opinion, can't

" understand " the picture without first understanding what makes up the

picture... much like the needles and the tree Moria discussed

earlier... it helps them to define something when they can understand

the parts. Sure, some children come to say: " tree " when showed the

tree picture... but, once you show them the concept and how you have

letters that have sounds, that you put together, that then make words,

that then can be used as labels for things... then in the time a child

learns " tree " using other methods, my child has learned how to decifer

" all pictures " , all words... because he now understands the concept

behind the word.

but, language is just one area ... look under " odd behaviors "

(under the Missing Link part on my site)... I stopped listing after

over 35 odd behaviors I could now explain based on this theory

alone... and I have many many more... I could probably come up with

close to 100 " odd behaviors " in my son alone that are explained by

this.... and that is not all the " other stuff " I talk about on my

site.. that is just " one link " out of many many links.

and yes, you do have to learn numbers before you can count... and

mathematical symbols before you can do other math... but, it's the

same concept as with language... it's teaching the underlying basics

that are key.

this week I asked my son to count by 10 for me... the first time I

ever did that... he counted all the way to 420... perfectly, before he

stopped. He can read better than most 2nd graders and he isn't even

5 yet... because once he " figured it out " and understood the

concept... it all " clicked " and he now moves forward very very fast.

He still has issues with books... not wanting to stop at a specific

page but rather wanting to turn all the pages and close the book right

away... because pages are parts to the whole and he does not

understand them ... I just haven't spent the time on that issue...

until today. So, today, I took a book and showed him that a book has

a front cover and a back cover and pages in the middle and that pages

have numbers on them. So, I'm labeling all parts of the book to make

him understand the concept of " a book " ... that's how detailed I

believe you have to be with these children for them to grasp concepts

quickly.

So, in my opinion, the key lies in teaching the lowest levels... the

building blocks in everything and labeling everything for the child.

, you are still talking about " order " in general... I'm

talking about " partiality " (a very important subset of order)...

that's the key... partiality... how our children, in my opinion, have

difficulty understanding the whole without first understanding the

" parts " that make up the whole... and yes, once a child " understands "

a concept, and can " order " that piece of his puzzle in his life,

things now make sense... he can better cope with them and things are

absolutely much much easier, for both child and parent. I don't

disagree with you there at all. )

Jeanne A. Brohart

http://www.autismhelpforyou.com

> > > In a message dated 8/1/02 11:50:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

> > > danaatty@y... writes:

> > >

> > >

> > > > But if you cannot articulate

> > > > your point so that people can understand it, then perhaps you

> need

> > to

> > > > rephrase it, or perhaps you do not understand it yourself.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Hi,

> > > I'm also having trouble understanding what you mean. I

> went

> > to your

> > > site because I thought you were talking about the way my son

> > thinks/learns:

> > > He has trouble grasping the whole, the entire gestalt of things.

> He

> > cannot

> > > extrapolate meaning from the entire thing -- he gets stuck on

> > detail. In

> > > other words, he can see a tree, but not the entire forest. He's

> > great with

> > > straight, rote facts. Not critical thinking.

> > > Can you clarify? I was following you at first but then

you

> > lost me. I

> > > have a dash of autism also.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Jeanne, I have printed off your 250 pages and will start reading this

weekend. I am very interested in what you are saying and would like to be

able to contact you on a private email, if that is okay, our child has been

taught to read from the bottom up and that is where his language is coming

from, now we need help in putting together reciprocal conversation etc. He

is 7 - reading is so powerful for him without it he wouldn't be able to

communicate at all, pictures are two broad for him and all that happens is

guesswork - so interested in your learning trees(my word) for sentence

structure - we will try this this weekend and see if he can get the colours

and shapes used for sentence structure - thanks for all your sharing and

efforts.

Cheers H

----- Original Message -----

From: autismhelpforyou <autismhelpforyou@...>

< >

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/2/2002 11:48:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

autismhelpforyou@... writes:

> I am thrilled for you that your son did so well with pecs... and

> happier still that you did not institutionalize him. I'm just saying

> that I think there is a better, more effective process in teaching

> these children. I'm sure Zachary would have eventually caught on

> with PECS too... I just think he is much further ahead because we went

> the route we did... and taught him the " concepts " behind the PECS.

>

>

Hi Jeanne,

Maybe I wasn't clear. could not GET all of the parts. He couldn't

" get " so much as one part.

He was totally nonresponsive, no matter what we did. My point is that there

is a legion of difference between classic, severe Kanner's autism and HFA.

And I can say this because I live with both. Both of my sons have autism.

They have both responded to drastically different intervention plans.

There was no better way to teach than PECS. PECS saved his life. And

believe me, we did it all. Lovaas ABA (which does exactly what you're

proposing...breaks the skills down into parts, then puts them back together

into a whole behavior) biomedical, sensory integration, audiotry integration

the list is endless. Believe me, if it had been so simple as sitting down

with and showing him that D-O-G, combined spells DOG, we'd have

discovered that long ago. He couldn't do that. He had NO receptive and no

expressive language abilities.

While I applaud you for helping your son (good for Zach! :c), what I am

saying is that its not right to discredit other clinically verified and

control group tested therapies as you go about " tweaking " your own theories.

No, PECS is not for every child. If a child has any kind of receptive

language and imitation skills, Lovaas style ABA is, imho, the way to go. It

gave us a miracle with .

I thank God each and every day that it is among the options available. Just

remember that your theory is that....an option which looks to me very much

like discrete trial training. While a good approach, It in no way describes

or addresses every child's unique learning needs, and I hate thinking of your

friends mom blaming herself for her child's lack of speech because she used

pictures and you didn't. That just sent a sword through my heart.

Best of luck!

Liane Gentry Skye

<A HREF= " http://talkingwithpictures.com/ " >Talking With Pictures</A>

" nonverbal " does not have to mean " unable to communicate "

[Guest guest]

not a problem... you can always contact me via my web site... I

always respond to parents. )... marketers on the other hand are

another issue. LOL I've actually had people call me at home... to

have me add this " click for dollars " to make money off my site...I

was rather upset to say the least.

Jeanne

> Jeanne, I have printed off your 250 pages and will start reading

this

> weekend. I am very interested in what you are saying and would

like to be

> able to contact you on a private email, if that is okay, our child

has been

> taught to read from the bottom up and that is where his language is

coming

> from, now we need help in putting together reciprocal conversation

etc. He

> is 7 - reading is so powerful for him without it he wouldn't be able

to

> communicate at all, pictures are two broad for him and all that

happens is

> guesswork - so interested in your learning trees(my word) for

sentence

> structure - we will try this this weekend and see if he can get the

colours

> and shapes used for sentence structure - thanks for all your sharing

and

> efforts.

> Cheers H

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: autismhelpforyou <autismhelpforyou@c...>

> < @y...>

[Guest guest]

Liane -

I'm not saying PECS don't work AT ALL... I just think there is a

better " first step " than that... teaching the alphabet, then the

sounds, then the words and then the PECS or associations.

I am thrilled for you that your son did so well with pecs... and

happier still that you did not institutionalize him. I'm just saying

that I think there is a better, more effective process in teaching

these children. I'm sure Zachary would have eventually caught on

with PECS too... I just think he is much further ahead because we went

the route we did... and taught him the " concepts " behind the PECS.

Jeanne A. Brohart

http://www.autismhelpforyou.com

> In a message dated 8/1/2002 9:39:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

> autismhelpforyou@c... writes:

>

>

> > " . I met one mother whose son was 7

> > and could say only 20 words... she was absolutely amazed at how

much

> > further Zachary was... and I see this over and over and over

again...

> > and when I ask how their children are taught, sure enough, it is

with

> > pictures... and they can't read!

>

> My son communicates with pictures and reads above age level. If it

weren't

> for PECS, my son would likely be in an institution right now.

Instead, he's

> talking, reading, spelling and learning math. So in our case,

pictures saved

> our child's life, and I've seen it happening with the kids all over

the

> school district...the severely autistic kids....who everyone had

given up on

> before as hopeless cases.

>

>

>

>

> Liane Gentry Skye

>

> <A HREF= " http://talkingwithpictures.com/ " >Talking With Pictures</A>

>

> " nonverbal " does not have to mean " unable to communicate "

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I'll have to go through this in more detail . My son is non-verbal (

largely although vocab increasing ) but he can read 50 plus words and

is starting to write ...but we tried alphabet etc to no effect

whatsoever . We just take him straight to the word and he gets it .

Can follow written instructions like " colour the triangle green "

accurately which is actually quite complicated for a five year old !!

But phonics etc - no luck at all !!!

Regards

Deborah -

-- In @y..., " autismhelpforyou "

<autismhelpforyou@c...> wrote:

> Liane -

>

> I'm not saying PECS don't work AT ALL... I just think there is a

> better " first step " than that... teaching the alphabet, then the

> sounds, then the words and then the PECS or associations.

>

> I am thrilled for you that your son did so well with pecs... and

> happier still that you did not institutionalize him. I'm just

saying

> that I think there is a better, more effective process in teaching

> these children. I'm sure Zachary would have eventually caught on

> with PECS too... I just think he is much further ahead because we

went

> the route we did... and taught him the " concepts " behind the PECS.

>

> Jeanne A. Brohart

> http://www.autismhelpforyou.com

>

>

> > In a message dated 8/1/2002 9:39:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

> > autismhelpforyou@c... writes:

> >

> >

> > > " . I met one mother whose son was 7

> > > and could say only 20 words... she was absolutely amazed at how

> much

> > > further Zachary was... and I see this over and over and over

> again...

> > > and when I ask how their children are taught, sure enough, it

is

> with

> > > pictures... and they can't read!

> >

> > My son communicates with pictures and reads above age level. If

it

> weren't

> > for PECS, my son would likely be in an institution right now.

> Instead, he's

> > talking, reading, spelling and learning math. So in our case,

> pictures saved

> > our child's life, and I've seen it happening with the kids all

over

> the

> > school district...the severely autistic kids....who everyone had

> given up on

> > before as hopeless cases.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Liane Gentry Skye

> >

> > <A HREF= " http://talkingwithpictures.com/ " >Talking With

Pictures</A>

> >

> > " nonverbal " does not have to mean " unable to communicate "

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Liane,

I totally understand what you are saying. I'm not trying to

discredit other approaches at all... actually, I find many many of

them fit into the entire puzzle of what helps... I just have different

views based on my son and those other ASD children I have been exposed

to... that's all. I'm glad you were able to recover both your

children. )

I will certainly keep your comments in my heart as I continue to write

what I have to say too.

Jeanne A. Brohart )

http://www.autismhelpforyou.com

> In a message dated 8/2/2002 11:48:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

> autismhelpforyou@c... writes:

>

>

> > I am thrilled for you that your son did so well with pecs... and

> > happier still that you did not institutionalize him. I'm just

saying

> > that I think there is a better, more effective process in teaching

> > these children. I'm sure Zachary would have eventually caught on

> > with PECS too... I just think he is much further ahead because we

went

> > the route we did... and taught him the " concepts " behind the PECS.

> >

> >

>

> Hi Jeanne,

>

> Maybe I wasn't clear. could not GET all of the parts. He

couldn't

> " get " so much as one part.

>

> He was totally nonresponsive, no matter what we did. My point is

that there

> is a legion of difference between classic, severe Kanner's autism

and HFA.

> And I can say this because I live with both. Both of my sons have

autism.

> They have both responded to drastically different intervention

plans.

>

> There was no better way to teach than PECS. PECS saved his

life. And

> believe me, we did it all. Lovaas ABA (which does exactly what

you're

> proposing...breaks the skills down into parts, then puts them back

together

> into a whole behavior) biomedical, sensory integration, audiotry

integration

> the list is endless. Believe me, if it had been so simple as

sitting down

> with and showing him that D-O-G, combined spells DOG, we'd

have

> discovered that long ago. He couldn't do that. He had NO receptive

and no

> expressive language abilities.

>

> While I applaud you for helping your son (good for Zach! :c), what I

am

> saying is that its not right to discredit other clinically verified

and

> control group tested therapies as you go about " tweaking " your own

theories.

> No, PECS is not for every child. If a child has any kind of

receptive

> language and imitation skills, Lovaas style ABA is, imho, the way to

go. It

> gave us a miracle with .

>

> I thank God each and every day that it is among the options

available. Just

> remember that your theory is that....an option which looks to me

very much

> like discrete trial training. While a good approach, It in no way

describes

> or addresses every child's unique learning needs, and I hate

thinking of your

> friends mom blaming herself for her child's lack of speech because

she used

> pictures and you didn't. That just sent a sword through my heart.

>

> Best of luck!

> Liane Gentry Skye

>

> <A HREF= " http://talkingwithpictures.com/ " >Talking With Pictures</A>

>

> " nonverbal " does not have to mean " unable to communicate "

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Each time I read another email from a parent on this, another thought

comes through my mind as far as " how I taught Zachary " .

When you say you tried the alphabet, I'm interested in " how " it was

done... ever since I saw that other parent's post on colors, my mind

has really been thinking about that A LOT!

I used " Zachary's room of colors " ... but, there were other things

too... and one of those things is something I mention on my site on

" teaching language " ... it is the fact that even after 2 years, Zachary

absolutely loves a video he has by " Babyscapes " on letters... the

letters pop up in different colors and spin around... so, if colors

and spinning are so important to these kids... could that be another

reason he really picked up on these concepts so quickly... this is a

very very visual video... and an excellent one for any child... but,

again, it absolutely amazes me how Zachary has never become " bored "

with it... he simply loves it as much today as he did on day 1... and

it's been 2+ years! If any of you want that video, the company that

makes it is Babyscapes. You can reach them at 888-441-KIDS or visit

their website at http://www.babyscapes.com. They have excellent

videos for letters, numbers, shapes, etc... again, these were by far,

by far his absolutely favorite videos!...and all of them involve a ton

of color and a lot of spinning things. I find this all very very

interesting!

I'd really appreciate it if you could share " what you did " to try to

teach the alphabet. I am so thankful we have the Internet and can

share this information... this absolutely fascinates me... the

whole color and motion thing...and the fact that my son still

adores this video.

Jeanne A.Brohart

http://www.autismhelpforyou.com

> > > In a message dated 8/1/2002 9:39:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

> > > autismhelpforyou@c... writes:

> > >

> > >

> > > > " . I met one mother whose son was 7

> > > > and could say only 20 words... she was absolutely amazed at

how

> > much

> > > > further Zachary was... and I see this over and over and over

> > again...

> > > > and when I ask how their children are taught, sure enough, it

> is

> > with

> > > > pictures... and they can't read!

> > >

> > > My son communicates with pictures and reads above age level. If

> it

> > weren't

> > > for PECS, my son would likely be in an institution right now.

> > Instead, he's

> > > talking, reading, spelling and learning math. So in our case,

> > pictures saved

> > > our child's life, and I've seen it happening with the kids all

> over

> > the

> > > school district...the severely autistic kids....who everyone had

> > given up on

> > > before as hopeless cases.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Liane Gentry Skye

> > >

> > > <A HREF= " http://talkingwithpictures.com/ " >Talking With

> Pictures</A>

> > >

> > > " nonverbal " does not have to mean " unable to communicate "

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Jeanne:

I have been following this thread with interest. My daughter who is now 19 is

hyperlexic. She would ignore the film until the credits rolled and then sit

transfixed. She spelled her name, her sister's name (), and the names

of two friends, and , using magnetic letters (colored

different colors if that's important) on the refrigerator when she was two and a

half. I don't recall teaching her letters other than this is an " a " .

She was reading early, could spell anything handed to her within a few minutes,

but did not understand what she was reading ...could not answer simple

comprehension questions.

She has improved greatly in these areas in the past four years. I first found

the word " hyperlexic " two and a half years ago on the internet. At the time she

was diagnosed, however, no one, not even the speech therapists we saw, were

familiar with this type of autism.

I don't know how this fits into your theory. I haven't had a chance to read

through your entire website, but it does sound interesting. Now how do you

develop educational and behavioral programs to help the children who fit your

category?

[ ] Re: Autism - THE MISSING LINK: Is this it?

Each time I read another email from a parent on this, another thought

comes through my mind as far as " how I taught Zachary " .

When you say you tried the alphabet, I'm interested in " how " it was

done... ever since I saw that other parent's post on colors, my mind

has really been thinking about that A LOT!

I used " Zachary's room of colors " ... but, there were other things

too... and one of those things is something I mention on my site on

" teaching language " ... it is the fact that even after 2 years, Zachary

absolutely loves a video he has by " Babyscapes " on letters... the

letters pop up in different colors and spin around... so, if colors

and spinning are so important to these kids... could that be another

reason he really picked up on these concepts so quickly... this is a

very very visual video... and an excellent one for any child... but,

again, it absolutely amazes me how Zachary has never become " bored "

with it... he simply loves it as much today as he did on day 1... and

it's been 2+ years! If any of you want that video, the company that

makes it is Babyscapes. You can reach them at 888-441-KIDS or visit

their website at http://www.babyscapes.com. They have excellent

videos for letters, numbers, shapes, etc... again, these were by far,

by far his absolutely favorite videos!...and all of them involve a ton

of color and a lot of spinning things. I find this all very very

interesting!

I'd really appreciate it if you could share " what you did " to try to

teach the alphabet. I am so thankful we have the Internet and can

share this information... this absolutely fascinates me... the

whole color and motion thing...and the fact that my son still

adores this video.

Jeanne A.Brohart

http://www.autismhelpforyou.com

> > > In a message dated 8/1/2002 9:39:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

> > > autismhelpforyou@c... writes:

> > >

> > >

> > > > " . I met one mother whose son was 7

> > > > and could say only 20 words... she was absolutely amazed at

how

> > much

> > > > further Zachary was... and I see this over and over and over

> > again...

> > > > and when I ask how their children are taught, sure enough, it

> is

> > with

> > > > pictures... and they can't read!

> > >

> > > My son communicates with pictures and reads above age level. If

> it

> > weren't

> > > for PECS, my son would likely be in an institution right now.

> > Instead, he's

> > > talking, reading, spelling and learning math. So in our case,

> > pictures saved

> > > our child's life, and I've seen it happening with the kids all

> over

> > the

> > > school district...the severely autistic kids....who everyone had

> > given up on

> > > before as hopeless cases.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Liane Gentry Skye

> > >

> > > <A HREF= " http://talkingwithpictures.com/ " >Talking With

> Pictures</A>

> > >

> > > " nonverbal " does not have to mean " unable to communicate "

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Liane -

there is something I forgot to mention and that I want to make quite

clear... what I advocate isn't at all like the Lovaas technique... and

I would appreciate it that no one compare my theory to Lovaas. There

may be some similarities, but there are HUGE differences. I

understand Lovaas perfectly... I hold two MAs... and one of them is in

Psychology... the other Finance. Perhaps that is why I've also been

so good at observing absolutely everything in my child.

but, again, please don't compare this to Lovaas...or any other

behavior therapist... just too many differences in terms of " how

things are actually done " and what we advocate... in spite of the few

similarities. Mine is not solely an issue with " getting the right

behavior " it is much much more than that.

I only have to label something once for Zachary... and it " fixes " a

whole lot of issues in his world... just a simple label... there is no

" discrete trial stuff there " at all. I advocate that a child needs

to understand the parts to the whole... Lovaas just " teaches " the

parts to the whole with reward mechanism... there is a huge difference

there! I don't need to reward... just provide a label... just

explain the parts and the concepts... that's it. I hope you will

understand what I am saying. Thanks.

Jeanne A. Brohart

http://www.autismhelpforyou.com

> In a message dated 8/2/2002 11:48:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

> autismhelpforyou@c... writes:

>

>

> > I am thrilled for you that your son did so well with pecs... and

> > happier still that you did not institutionalize him. I'm just

saying

> > that I think there is a better, more effective process in teaching

> > these children. I'm sure Zachary would have eventually caught on

> > with PECS too... I just think he is much further ahead because we

went

> > the route we did... and taught him the " concepts " behind the PECS.

> >

> >

>

> Hi Jeanne,

>

> Maybe I wasn't clear. could not GET all of the parts. He

couldn't

> " get " so much as one part.

>

> He was totally nonresponsive, no matter what we did. My point is

that there

> is a legion of difference between classic, severe Kanner's autism

and HFA.

> And I can say this because I live with both. Both of my sons have

autism.

> They have both responded to drastically different intervention

plans.

>

> There was no better way to teach than PECS. PECS saved his

life. And

> believe me, we did it all. Lovaas ABA (which does exactly what

you're

> proposing...breaks the skills down into parts, then puts them back

together

> into a whole behavior) biomedical, sensory integration, audiotry

integration

> the list is endless. Believe me, if it had been so simple as

sitting down

> with and showing him that D-O-G, combined spells DOG, we'd

have

> discovered that long ago. He couldn't do that. He had NO receptive

and no

> expressive language abilities.

>

> While I applaud you for helping your son (good for Zach! :c), what I

am

> saying is that its not right to discredit other clinically verified

and

> control group tested therapies as you go about " tweaking " your own

theories.

> No, PECS is not for every child. If a child has any kind of

receptive

> language and imitation skills, Lovaas style ABA is, imho, the way to

go. It

> gave us a miracle with .

>

> I thank God each and every day that it is among the options

available. Just

> remember that your theory is that....an option which looks to me

very much

> like discrete trial training. While a good approach, It in no way

describes

> or addresses every child's unique learning needs, and I hate

thinking of your

> friends mom blaming herself for her child's lack of speech because

she used

> pictures and you didn't. That just sent a sword through my heart.

>

> Best of luck!

> Liane Gentry Skye

>

> <A HREF= " http://talkingwithpictures.com/ " >Talking With Pictures</A>

>

> " nonverbal " does not have to mean " unable to communicate "

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Joan,

It's amazing how the " color " thing keeps popping up... along with

stuff related to learning the alphabet or learning to read... it

certainly is all very interesting.

There is another thing I had forgotten about Zachary's behavior...

although, now, this has changed... but, in the past, if he had toys,

etc. and wanted to line something up... even say a bunch of pencils

that had different colors on the outside, he would never line two

pencils up that were the same color one next to the other... there

always had to be different colors linked to the next color. If I

tried to put two of the same color one touching the next, he used to

get very very upset. Again, another interesting thing.

As far as films and waiting for the captions... this was also very

true for Zachary... if you think about it, a movie has " no order " to

it whatsoever... the child doesn't know what to expect next... with

Zachary, once he saw a movie with a storyline, the more he saw it, the

more interested he was... since he could now anticipate what was

coming... the parts he found funny, etc... he still gets somewhat

upset if I try to turn it off in the middle or before all the captions

are through... but he is much much better now about that. I think

that autistic kids sense " their is something " to these " letters " they

see on the screen and everywhere in life... and I think that like

everything else, they look at them, fixed, trying to figure out " the

alphabet puzzle and how it works " . I'm convinced of that. They see

words everywhere... it's the same " patterns " (i.e., letters) over and

over again... just in a different order... and I honestly think that

when they are looking at captions, as your girl did, that they are

simply trying to " figure it out " ... to " break the code " that has never

been broken for them. You have to admit... they sure are intelligent

to be able to " break that code " ... as so many of them do on their own!

Absolutely amazing! )

Anyway, as far as what to do in terms of helping these kids... I give

a lot of insights on that stuff on my site, but the reality is that

this is all so new to me, as well as to all of you, that, in my

opinion, there is a huge, huge amount of work to be done in terms of

therapy, teaching practices, etc. when it comes to how we handle these

children. There is more work than one person can possibly do in a

lifetime in my opinion... there are so many aspects and concepts to

teach. In my opinion, I would suggest a huge change in behavior

therapy and teaching practices. Just in teaching language, there is

so so much to do... to get to all the concepts and how they fit

together. That's why I try to give general concepts and how to teach

them... but, to actually come up with say, " a workbook " would take a

lot of time. In my view, you'd also need a lot more than one person

putting it together... I'd include speech therapists, linguists, etc.

in the process... because in my opinion, the language needs to be

" very very specific " for these children.

I'm waiting to see how people respond to what I have to say... my site

comes up in many key autism searches...in the top 5 in many cases...

often in the top 1 or 2... so, people with a computer are very likely

to hit it. I've taken my message to parents first to hear what they

have to say... but, my dilema is in getting my information to parents

who don't have the Internet... because they need to decide for

themselves too, if this makes sense for their child. I don't know

what I'm going to do next in terms of getting to those who don't have

computers. I honestly haven't thought that far ahead in terms of

getting to them in the short term. I'm resourceful though... I'll

think of something!

I know there is a lot of information on my site... and I think it is

going to take people a while to get through it... Lord knows it took

me a while to write it all up. The thing with new theories is that

once you propose something and some people think it makes sense say

for their child... then a lot of people think you have a lot of other

answers too... and I have some... but certainly not all. There is

just so much involved here. The whole color aspect that came to

light for me only this week is helping me to put a lot of stuff

together too... helping to explain so much I saw in Zachary in the

past. I still think that there are definitely sensory issues at play

also... and that is one area I just can't really provide a lot of help

with. I know my son has improved a lot in terms of his sensory

(visual, auditory and touch issues) since on enzymes... and that is

something I will continue to tell parents about on my site...

by the way, Devin... if you are reading any of these messages, sorry

for all the " off topic " stuff since what I'm talking about is a whole

new theory as far as autism... but, I hope that since these

discussions are happening here it will also bring more to this message

board... I do refer to this board in a lot of places on my site...it

is by far my favorite autism board...

But, really, Joan, I'm not even done writing up my sections yet...

getting there, but still not done...and when you get " new

ideas/thoughts " each day in seeing more explained, well, it almost

feels like I'm never going to get done. )... but, I will... and I

hope to be able to collate a lot of this for those who do want paper

copies. I'm resourceful though... I'll think of something!

Jeanne A. Brohart

http://www.autismhelpforyou.com

> > > > In a message dated 8/1/2002 9:39:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

> > > > autismhelpforyou@c... writes:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > > " . I met one mother whose son was 7

> > > > > and could say only 20 words... she was absolutely amazed at

> how

> > > much

> > > > > further Zachary was... and I see this over and over and over

> > > again...

> > > > > and when I ask how their children are taught, sure enough,

it

> > is

> > > with

> > > > > pictures... and they can't read!

> > > >

> > > > My son communicates with pictures and reads above age level.

If

> > it

> > > weren't

> > > > for PECS, my son would likely be in an institution right now.

> > > Instead, he's

> > > > talking, reading, spelling and learning math. So in our case,

> > > pictures saved

> > > > our child's life, and I've seen it happening with the kids all

> > over

> > > the

> > > > school district...the severely autistic kids....who everyone

had

> > > given up on

> > > > before as hopeless cases.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Liane Gentry Skye

> > > >

> > > > <A HREF= " http://talkingwithpictures.com/ " >Talking With

> > Pictures</A>

> > > >

> > > > " nonverbal " does not have to mean " unable to communicate "

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Hi,

my son is 4 and he is reading anything, i noticed when he was 31/2 that he

could read and the if he was seeing new things he will ask what is this? and

i'll tell him thenn he will know that forever, now at 4 he if he sees something

new he doesn't ask anymore what is this? he tries to read it himself and

sometime he gets it rigth and sometimes not, so he has this ability and interest

in reading, now my point is what else do you do for them i was talking with the

speech therapist to ask if they could do phonics with my son (to teach the

sounds of two or three letters together, i don't know exactly how do you call

this teaching method) , they said or wait till he goes to school and we have to

follow the programme that the teacher will do, so i can see that they don't have

any idea, please i'll like to know what is the best in this circumstances.

he still having problems of socialization, and need more every day language but

i think hyperlexia is a tool that we can use very much in their benefit.

thanks for info

silvia

autismhelpforyou <autismhelpforyou@...> wrote: Hi Joan,

It's amazing how the " color " thing keeps popping up... along with

stuff related to learning the alphabet or learning to read... it

certainly is all very interesting.

There is another thing I had forgotten about Zachary's behavior...

although, now, this has changed... but, in the past, if he had toys,

etc. and wanted to line something up... even say a bunch of pencils

that had different colors on the outside, he would never line two

pencils up that were the same color one next to the other... there

always had to be different colors linked to the next color. If I

tried to put two of the same color one touching the next, he used to

get very very upset. Again, another interesting thing.

As far as films and waiting for the captions... this was also very

true for Zachary... if you think about it, a movie has " no order " to

it whatsoever... the child doesn't know what to expect next... with

Zachary, once he saw a movie with a storyline, the more he saw it, the

more interested he was... since he could now anticipate what was

coming... the parts he found funny, etc... he still gets somewhat

upset if I try to turn it off in the middle or before all the captions

are through... but he is much much better now about that. I think

that autistic kids sense " their is something " to these " letters " they

see on the screen and everywhere in life... and I think that like

everything else, they look at them, fixed, trying to figure out " the

alphabet puzzle and how it works " . I'm convinced of that. They see

words everywhere... it's the same " patterns " (i.e., letters) over and

over again... just in a different order... and I honestly think that

when they are looking at captions, as your girl did, that they are

simply trying to " figure it out " ... to " break the code " that has never

been broken for them. You have to admit... they sure are intelligent

to be able to " break that code " ... as so many of them do on their own!

Absolutely amazing! )

Anyway, as far as what to do in terms of helping these kids... I give

a lot of insights on that stuff on my site, but the reality is that

this is all so new to me, as well as to all of you, that, in my

opinion, there is a huge, huge amount of work to be done in terms of

therapy, teaching practices, etc. when it comes to how we handle these

children. There is more work than one person can possibly do in a

lifetime in my opinion... there are so many aspects and concepts to

teach. In my opinion, I would suggest a huge change in behavior

therapy and teaching practices. Just in teaching language, there is

so so much to do... to get to all the concepts and how they fit

together. That's why I try to give general concepts and how to teach

them... but, to actually come up with say, " a workbook " would take a

lot of time. In my view, you'd also need a lot more than one person

putting it together... I'd include speech therapists, linguists, etc.

in the process... because in my opinion, the language needs to be

" very very specific " for these children.

I'm waiting to see how people respond to what I have to say... my site

comes up in many key autism searches...in the top 5 in many cases...

often in the top 1 or 2... so, people with a computer are very likely

to hit it. I've taken my message to parents first to hear what they

have to say... but, my dilema is in getting my information to parents

who don't have the Internet... because they need to decide for

themselves too, if this makes sense for their child. I don't know

what I'm going to do next in terms of getting to those who don't have

computers. I honestly haven't thought that far ahead in terms of

getting to them in the short term. I'm resourceful though... I'll

think of something!

I know there is a lot of information on my site... and I think it is

going to take people a while to get through it... Lord knows it took

me a while to write it all up. The thing with new theories is that

once you propose something and some people think it makes sense say

for their child... then a lot of people think you have a lot of other

answers too... and I have some... but certainly not all. There is

just so much involved here. The whole color aspect that came to

light for me only this week is helping me to put a lot of stuff

together too... helping to explain so much I saw in Zachary in the

past. I still think that there are definitely sensory issues at play

also... and that is one area I just can't really provide a lot of help

with. I know my son has improved a lot in terms of his sensory

(visual, auditory and touch issues) since on enzymes... and that is

something I will continue to tell parents about on my site...

by the way, Devin... if you are reading any of these messages, sorry

for all the " off topic " stuff since what I'm talking about is a whole

new theory as far as autism... but, I hope that since these

discussions are happening here it will also bring more to this message

board... I do refer to this board in a lot of places on my site...it

is by far my favorite autism board...

But, really, Joan, I'm not even done writing up my sections yet...

getting there, but still not done...and when you get " new

ideas/thoughts " each day in seeing more explained, well, it almost

feels like I'm never going to get done. )... but, I will... and I

hope to be able to collate a lot of this for those who do want paper

copies. I'm resourceful though... I'll think of something!

Jeanne A. Brohart

http://www.autismhelpforyou.com

> > > > In a message dated 8/1/2002 9:39:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

> > > > autismhelpforyou@c... writes:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > > " . I met one mother whose son was 7

> > > > > and could say only 20 words... she was absolutely amazed at

> how

> > > much

> > > > > further Zachary was... and I see this over and over and over

> > > again...

> > > > > and when I ask how their children are taught, sure enough,

it

> > is

> > > with

> > > > > pictures... and they can't read!

> > > >

> > > > My son communicates with pictures and reads above age level.

If

> > it

> > > weren't

> > > > for PECS, my son would likely be in an institution right now.

> > > Instead, he's

> > > > talking, reading, spelling and learning math. So in our case,

> > > pictures saved

> > > > our child's life, and I've seen it happening with the kids all

> > over

> > > the

> > > > school district...the severely autistic kids....who everyone

had

> > > given up on

> > > > before as hopeless cases.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Liane Gentry Skye

> > > >

> > > > Talking With

> > Pictures

> > > >

> > > > " nonverbal " does not have to mean " unable to communicate "

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Madeline,

what you are talking about here is exactly what I saw in my own son...

and I speak that if I had to do it all again, I wouldn't make the

mistake of getting " fixated " on a particular task (i.e., small words,

labeling of objects),... I'd move on to the next level... as soon as

possible because it is my belief that once these children understand

the basics to the concept... " it clicks " , they figure it out and they

are ready for the next step. If it were my child, I wouldn't wait to

teach him the phonics... but first, make absolutely sure he knows all

his letters... if he does, then move on to phonics and go from there.

I've got a section within the " teaching language " part of my site

(under A world Of Order) that deals specifically with teaching

phonics. You may want to look at that.

The thing with autistic kids, in my opinion,is that you really have to

move them along in the areas where they are very strong as quickly as

you can... so that you can then focus on " catching them up " in other

areas where things are more difficult... like socialization, etc.

The thing about school settings is that they like pretty well everyone

at " one level " ... it makes it easier to teach that way... with all

first graders " about here " as far as reading, etc.... when you

introduce a child who is say in " third grade " reading level when he

should be in first grade, that poses a problem for " the system " ... and

your child ends up learning basically nothing in that area for the

year... when he should have been allowed to focus on " something

else " ... like socialization... when he was beyond other children in

areas they were going over. What would be wrong with placing a child

say with a group of pre-kindergarden children to socialize when others

are learning the basics of reading... things your child already knows.

Parents have to do what is right for their children... and if that

means moving faster in one area to then be able to focus on more

specifics in the school setting, a great place to work on

socialization issues, then, why not?

Zachary still has a lot of work to do in the area of socialization and

conversation... I've been so busy with sharing all this information

that I'm anxious to get back to actually " working with him " ... but, I

know my child's capabilities best and how quickly he can move forward

in a particular area... as I'm sure is true for every other parent out

there!... so, don't be " lulled " by any system into " simply waiting "

because your child will lose ground and valuable time on all fronts

that way!...time that could better be spent focusing on areas of

weakness! JMHO.

Jeanne A. Brohart

http://www.autismhelpforyou.com

> > > > > In a message dated 8/1/2002 9:39:14 PM Eastern Daylight

Time,

>

> > > > > autismhelpforyou@c... writes:

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > " . I met one mother whose son was 7

> > > > > > and could say only 20 words... she was absolutely amazed

at

>

> > how

> > > > much

> > > > > > further Zachary was... and I see this over and over and

over

>

> > > > again...

> > > > > > and when I ask how their children are taught, sure enough,

> it

> > > is

> > > > with

> > > > > > pictures... and they can't read!

> > > > >

> > > > > My son communicates with pictures and reads above age level.

> If

> > > it

> > > > weren't

> > > > > for PECS, my son would likely be in an institution right

now.

>

> > > > Instead, he's

> > > > > talking, reading, spelling and learning math. So in our

case,

>

> > > > pictures saved

> > > > > our child's life, and I've seen it happening with the kids

all

>

> > > over

> > > > the

> > > > > school district...the severely autistic kids....who everyone

> had

> > > > given up on

> > > > > before as hopeless cases.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Liane Gentry Skye

> > > > >

> > > > > Talking With

> > > Pictures

> > > > >

> > > > > " nonverbal " does not have to mean " unable to communicate "

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

[Guest guest]

Hi

Forgive me .....you want to know how I tried to teach alphabet and

phonics and failed ?

You don't want to know how I tried AND SUCCEEDED in teaching an

almost non-verbal child to read before the age of five ? LOL !!! So

not THAT interested in what other parents do ?!

I'm sure your approach is great and I have retained the details to go

through but I'm not posting to be given the " what you should have

done " bit . LOL !!!!!!!!!

Regards

Deborah

> > > > In a message dated 8/1/2002 9:39:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

> > > > autismhelpforyou@c... writes:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > > " . I met one mother whose son was 7

> > > > > and could say only 20 words... she was absolutely amazed at

> how

> > > much

> > > > > further Zachary was... and I see this over and over and

over

> > > again...

> > > > > and when I ask how their children are taught, sure enough,

it

> > is

> > > with

> > > > > pictures... and they can't read!

> > > >

> > > > My son communicates with pictures and reads above age level.

If

> > it

> > > weren't

> > > > for PECS, my son would likely be in an institution right

now.

> > > Instead, he's

> > > > talking, reading, spelling and learning math. So in our

case,

> > > pictures saved

> > > > our child's life, and I've seen it happening with the kids

all

> > over

> > > the

> > > > school district...the severely autistic kids....who everyone

had

> > > given up on

> > > > before as hopeless cases.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Liane Gentry Skye

> > > >

> > > > <A HREF= " http://talkingwithpictures.com/ " >Talking With

> > Pictures</A>

> > > >

> > > > " nonverbal " does not have to mean " unable to communicate "

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Hi there, wondering if you could send me a couple of examples of how you are

teaching grammer apart from the ones on your site, just practical ones that

you are using for skills around the house of activities, we are struggling

to get this working - thanks for your time

[ ] Re: Autism - THE MISSING LINK: Is this

> it?

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Mar

Hi,

my son is 4 and reading, his language is getting better but there is a lot to do

to get a spontaneous conversation, i'll like to know if you are having some info

that can help me to help him. good luck with your child

thanks

silvia

y <maryhe@...> wrote: Jeanne, I have printed off your 250 pages

and will start reading this

weekend. I am very interested in what you are saying and would like to be

able to contact you on a private email, if that is okay, our child has been

taught to read from the bottom up and that is where his language is coming

from, now we need help in putting together reciprocal conversation etc. He

is 7 - reading is so powerful for him without it he wouldn't be able to

communicate at all, pictures are two broad for him and all that happens is

guesswork - so interested in your learning trees(my word) for sentence

structure - we will try this this weekend and see if he can get the colours

and shapes used for sentence structure - thanks for all your sharing and

efforts.

Cheers H

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