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Well after a long wait, I've finally received the results from my

muscle biopsy and it appears that mitochondrial disorders have been

ruled out. I know the doctors at UCLA were pretty surprised at the

results as they were all but certain that I was dealing with a

mitochondrial issue of some sort.

The biopsy did reveal significant denervation of my muscle tissue so

I'm back to where I started from in terms of having some sort of

neurological disorder. What surprised my doctors was the fact that

the EMG and NCV studies failed to pick up signs of significant nerve

damage when the biopsy indicated some pretty major problems.

I get to go in for more testing in order to pinpoint the problem but

now things are pointing towards an autoimmune disease. As a result,

I'll be searching out a support group focusing on this problem.

I've benefited much from this site. All of the members are

awesome

in how they provide information and support for dealing with such a

frustrating disorder.

I do want to leave with some advice for all of those members that

remain undiagnosed. I to know the frustration of dealing with

doctors that think you are crazy and it's key to search out those

good physicians that are willing to listen. No rational person would

ever want such debilitating disorders and I have a tough time

understanding some doctors' attitudes.

I've also learned a valuable lesson in persisting with tests to

identify the specific disorder that one is facing. Many

neuromuscular and mitochondrial disorders have overlapping symptoms

and test results. Some of the tests that we endure for the

diagnostic process are not fun but I think it is worthwhile to go

through with the testing even if you are suspected of having a

condition that has limited treatment options.

I had the option of not having the muscle biopsy and had I not gone

through with it, I would probably have received a " probable

mitochondrial disorder " diagnosis. The doctors were absolutely

positive that this was the problem and only wanted the biopsy to

determine what type of mito disorder I was dealing with. Even though

my situation may not be the norm, the added testing has prevented me

from starting a treatment regimen that would have offered no

benefit.

I encourage everyone to persist until they get a specific answer on

whatever condition they might have. As medicine continues to

advance, specific knowledge as to ones condition can only help as new

advances in treatment options are developed.

All the best to everyone as we head into the New Year.

Bob

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Bob

I am sorry you continue to have to search. I know how frustrating that can

be.

Thanks for your well expressed ideas.

I wish you well and your continued journey.

laurie

>

> Reply-To:

> Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 18:58:42 -0000

> To:

> Subject: Muscle Biopsy Results

>

>

>

> Well after a long wait, I've finally received the results from my

> muscle biopsy and it appears that mitochondrial disorders have been

> ruled out. I know the doctors at UCLA were pretty surprised at the

> results as they were all but certain that I was dealing with a

> mitochondrial issue of some sort.

>

> The biopsy did reveal significant denervation of my muscle tissue so

> I'm back to where I started from in terms of having some sort of

> neurological disorder. What surprised my doctors was the fact that

> the EMG and NCV studies failed to pick up signs of significant nerve

> damage when the biopsy indicated some pretty major problems.

>

> I get to go in for more testing in order to pinpoint the problem but

> now things are pointing towards an autoimmune disease. As a result,

> I'll be searching out a support group focusing on this problem.

>

> I've benefited much from this site. All of the members are

> awesome

> in how they provide information and support for dealing with such a

> frustrating disorder.

>

> I do want to leave with some advice for all of those members that

> remain undiagnosed. I to know the frustration of dealing with

> doctors that think you are crazy and it's key to search out those

> good physicians that are willing to listen. No rational person would

> ever want such debilitating disorders and I have a tough time

> understanding some doctors' attitudes.

>

> I've also learned a valuable lesson in persisting with tests to

> identify the specific disorder that one is facing. Many

> neuromuscular and mitochondrial disorders have overlapping symptoms

> and test results. Some of the tests that we endure for the

> diagnostic process are not fun but I think it is worthwhile to go

> through with the testing even if you are suspected of having a

> condition that has limited treatment options.

>

> I had the option of not having the muscle biopsy and had I not gone

> through with it, I would probably have received a " probable

> mitochondrial disorder " diagnosis. The doctors were absolutely

> positive that this was the problem and only wanted the biopsy to

> determine what type of mito disorder I was dealing with. Even though

> my situation may not be the norm, the added testing has prevented me

> from starting a treatment regimen that would have offered no

> benefit.

>

> I encourage everyone to persist until they get a specific answer on

> whatever condition they might have. As medicine continues to

> advance, specific knowledge as to ones condition can only help as new

> advances in treatment options are developed.

>

> All the best to everyone as we head into the New Year.

>

> Bob

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Medical advice, information, opinions, data and statements contained herein

> are not necessarily those of the list moderators. The author of this e mail is

> entirely responsible for its content. List members are reminded of their

> responsibility to evaluate the content of the postings and consult with their

> physicians regarding changes in their own treatment.

>

> Personal attacks are not permitted on the list and anyone who sends one is

> automatically moderated or removed depending on the severity of the attack.

>

>

>

>

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Bob

I am sorry you continue to have to search. I know how frustrating that can

be.

Thanks for your well expressed ideas.

I wish you well and your continued journey.

laurie

>

> Reply-To:

> Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 18:58:42 -0000

> To:

> Subject: Muscle Biopsy Results

>

>

>

> Well after a long wait, I've finally received the results from my

> muscle biopsy and it appears that mitochondrial disorders have been

> ruled out. I know the doctors at UCLA were pretty surprised at the

> results as they were all but certain that I was dealing with a

> mitochondrial issue of some sort.

>

> The biopsy did reveal significant denervation of my muscle tissue so

> I'm back to where I started from in terms of having some sort of

> neurological disorder. What surprised my doctors was the fact that

> the EMG and NCV studies failed to pick up signs of significant nerve

> damage when the biopsy indicated some pretty major problems.

>

> I get to go in for more testing in order to pinpoint the problem but

> now things are pointing towards an autoimmune disease. As a result,

> I'll be searching out a support group focusing on this problem.

>

> I've benefited much from this site. All of the members are

> awesome

> in how they provide information and support for dealing with such a

> frustrating disorder.

>

> I do want to leave with some advice for all of those members that

> remain undiagnosed. I to know the frustration of dealing with

> doctors that think you are crazy and it's key to search out those

> good physicians that are willing to listen. No rational person would

> ever want such debilitating disorders and I have a tough time

> understanding some doctors' attitudes.

>

> I've also learned a valuable lesson in persisting with tests to

> identify the specific disorder that one is facing. Many

> neuromuscular and mitochondrial disorders have overlapping symptoms

> and test results. Some of the tests that we endure for the

> diagnostic process are not fun but I think it is worthwhile to go

> through with the testing even if you are suspected of having a

> condition that has limited treatment options.

>

> I had the option of not having the muscle biopsy and had I not gone

> through with it, I would probably have received a " probable

> mitochondrial disorder " diagnosis. The doctors were absolutely

> positive that this was the problem and only wanted the biopsy to

> determine what type of mito disorder I was dealing with. Even though

> my situation may not be the norm, the added testing has prevented me

> from starting a treatment regimen that would have offered no

> benefit.

>

> I encourage everyone to persist until they get a specific answer on

> whatever condition they might have. As medicine continues to

> advance, specific knowledge as to ones condition can only help as new

> advances in treatment options are developed.

>

> All the best to everyone as we head into the New Year.

>

> Bob

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Medical advice, information, opinions, data and statements contained herein

> are not necessarily those of the list moderators. The author of this e mail is

> entirely responsible for its content. List members are reminded of their

> responsibility to evaluate the content of the postings and consult with their

> physicians regarding changes in their own treatment.

>

> Personal attacks are not permitted on the list and anyone who sends one is

> automatically moderated or removed depending on the severity of the attack.

>

>

>

>

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Hey Bob,

I am sorry to hear you are still searching for answers. I have a question

though. Was the biopsy at UCLA a fresh biopsy or a frozen biopsy? The reason

I ask is that a frozen biopsy is not very accurate. I had a frozen biopsy at

Ohio State University and Columbus, OH that came back normal. My new Neuro in

Michigan, Dr. Simpson, looked at my biopsy results and said that a frozen biopsy

kills the muscle and mitochondria cells and you can't get an accurate reading

because there are sometimes underlying issues in the respitory chain. and you

can't always diagnose MITO disorders by ragged red fibers and such.

Please if you can just take some time and ask the Doctors or look at your

results to see if it was a frozen biopsy.

javaruck bob.rucker@...> wrote:

Well after a long wait, I've finally received the results from my

muscle biopsy and it appears that mitochondrial disorders have been

ruled out. I know the doctors at UCLA were pretty surprised at the

results as they were all but certain that I was dealing with a

mitochondrial issue of some sort.

The biopsy did reveal significant denervation of my muscle tissue so

I'm back to where I started from in terms of having some sort of

neurological disorder. What surprised my doctors was the fact that

the EMG and NCV studies failed to pick up signs of significant nerve

damage when the biopsy indicated some pretty major problems.

I get to go in for more testing in order to pinpoint the problem but

now things are pointing towards an autoimmune disease. As a result,

I'll be searching out a support group focusing on this problem.

I've benefited much from this site. All of the members are

awesome

in how they provide information and support for dealing with such a

frustrating disorder.

I do want to leave with some advice for all of those members that

remain undiagnosed. I to know the frustration of dealing with

doctors that think you are crazy and it's key to search out those

good physicians that are willing to listen. No rational person would

ever want such debilitating disorders and I have a tough time

understanding some doctors' attitudes.

I've also learned a valuable lesson in persisting with tests to

identify the specific disorder that one is facing. Many

neuromuscular and mitochondrial disorders have overlapping symptoms

and test results. Some of the tests that we endure for the

diagnostic process are not fun but I think it is worthwhile to go

through with the testing even if you are suspected of having a

condition that has limited treatment options.

I had the option of not having the muscle biopsy and had I not gone

through with it, I would probably have received a " probable

mitochondrial disorder " diagnosis. The doctors were absolutely

positive that this was the problem and only wanted the biopsy to

determine what type of mito disorder I was dealing with. Even though

my situation may not be the norm, the added testing has prevented me

from starting a treatment regimen that would have offered no

benefit.

I encourage everyone to persist until they get a specific answer on

whatever condition they might have. As medicine continues to

advance, specific knowledge as to ones condition can only help as new

advances in treatment options are developed.

All the best to everyone as we head into the New Year.

Bob

Medical advice, information, opinions, data and statements contained herein are

not necessarily those of the list moderators. The author of this e mail is

entirely responsible for its content. List members are reminded of their

responsibility to evaluate the content of the postings and consult with their

physicians regarding changes in their own treatment.

Personal attacks are not permitted on the list and anyone who sends one is

automatically moderated or removed depending on the severity of the attack.

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Share on other sites

,

I had asked when they took the sample and they indicated that it was

fresh. I'm inclined to believe them as they went to a lot of trouble

to coordinate the timing of the biopsy with the availability of the

lab. They even had an in-house runner present at my biopsy to rush

the sample over to the neuromuscular pathology lab that was in a

different building as soon as it was removed.

The biopsy results were abnormal - just not in the way that the

doctors were expecting. With the denervation that was found the dx

may now be pointing to CIDP (chronic inflammatory demyelinating

polyneuropathy). At least this is what seems logical given the

neurological symptoms that accompany the fatigue and muscle

weakness. Other causes of muscle denervation include motor neuron

disease but I'm going to keep thinking happy thoughts and try to keep

that possibility out of the equation. From what I've been able to

research, sensory symptoms are not a normal for motor neuron disease

and this is a big part of what is going on with my situation.

My doctor had suspected CIDP initially but was detoured when my EMG

and NCV studies came back normal. My exercise physiology lab results

further compounded things with the CK and ammonia elevations but even

then, a number of other lab indications that usually go out of whack

with mito remained normal which seemed to confuse things even more.

I seem to be giving the doctors a run for the money but I'm fortunate

to live so close to a facility like UCLA. The doctors have been

really good in trying to figure things out so I'll keep crossing my

fingers in hopes that they pinpoint the problem and start looking at

some sort of treatment program to slow the progression down.

Bob

>

>

> Well after a long wait, I've finally received the results from my

> muscle biopsy and it appears that mitochondrial disorders have been

> ruled out. I know the doctors at UCLA were pretty surprised at the

> results as they were all but certain that I was dealing with a

> mitochondrial issue of some sort.

>

> The biopsy did reveal significant denervation of my muscle tissue

so

> I'm back to where I started from in terms of having some sort of

> neurological disorder. What surprised my doctors was the fact that

> the EMG and NCV studies failed to pick up signs of significant

nerve

> damage when the biopsy indicated some pretty major problems.

>

> I get to go in for more testing in order to pinpoint the problem

but

> now things are pointing towards an autoimmune disease. As a

result,

> I'll be searching out a support group focusing on this problem.

>

> I've benefited much from this site. All of the members are

> awesome

> in how they provide information and support for dealing with such a

> frustrating disorder.

>

> I do want to leave with some advice for all of those members that

> remain undiagnosed. I to know the frustration of dealing with

> doctors that think you are crazy and it's key to search out those

> good physicians that are willing to listen. No rational person

would

> ever want such debilitating disorders and I have a tough time

> understanding some doctors' attitudes.

>

> I've also learned a valuable lesson in persisting with tests to

> identify the specific disorder that one is facing. Many

> neuromuscular and mitochondrial disorders have overlapping symptoms

> and test results. Some of the tests that we endure for the

> diagnostic process are not fun but I think it is worthwhile to go

> through with the testing even if you are suspected of having a

> condition that has limited treatment options.

>

> I had the option of not having the muscle biopsy and had I not gone

> through with it, I would probably have received a " probable

> mitochondrial disorder " diagnosis. The doctors were absolutely

> positive that this was the problem and only wanted the biopsy to

> determine what type of mito disorder I was dealing with. Even

though

> my situation may not be the norm, the added testing has prevented

me

> from starting a treatment regimen that would have offered no

> benefit.

>

> I encourage everyone to persist until they get a specific answer on

> whatever condition they might have. As medicine continues to

> advance, specific knowledge as to ones condition can only help as

new

> advances in treatment options are developed.

>

> All the best to everyone as we head into the New Year.

>

> Bob

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Medical advice, information, opinions, data and statements

contained herein are not necessarily those of the list moderators.

The author of this e mail is entirely responsible for its content.

List members are reminded of their responsibility to evaluate the

content of the postings and consult with their physicians regarding

changes in their own treatment.

>

> Personal attacks are not permitted on the list and anyone who sends

one is automatically moderated or removed depending on the severity

of the attack.

>

>

>

>

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Share on other sites

Same thing in Georgia - there was a person from Dr. Shoffner's office

witnessing the surgery, waiting for the muscle biopsy sample, so they

could rush it over immediately for testing and prep for other labs.

Take care,

RH

> >

> >

> > Well after a long wait, I've finally received the results from my

> > muscle biopsy and it appears that mitochondrial disorders have

been

> > ruled out. I know the doctors at UCLA were pretty surprised at

the

> > results as they were all but certain that I was dealing with a

> > mitochondrial issue of some sort.

> >

> > The biopsy did reveal significant denervation of my muscle tissue

> so

> > I'm back to where I started from in terms of having some sort of

> > neurological disorder. What surprised my doctors was the fact

that

> > the EMG and NCV studies failed to pick up signs of significant

> nerve

> > damage when the biopsy indicated some pretty major problems.

> >

> > I get to go in for more testing in order to pinpoint the problem

> but

> > now things are pointing towards an autoimmune disease. As a

> result,

> > I'll be searching out a support group focusing on this problem.

> >

> > I've benefited much from this site. All of the members are

> > awesome

> > in how they provide information and support for dealing with such

a

> > frustrating disorder.

> >

> > I do want to leave with some advice for all of those members that

> > remain undiagnosed. I to know the frustration of dealing with

> > doctors that think you are crazy and it's key to search out those

> > good physicians that are willing to listen. No rational person

> would

> > ever want such debilitating disorders and I have a tough time

> > understanding some doctors' attitudes.

> >

> > I've also learned a valuable lesson in persisting with tests to

> > identify the specific disorder that one is facing. Many

> > neuromuscular and mitochondrial disorders have overlapping

symptoms

> > and test results. Some of the tests that we endure for the

> > diagnostic process are not fun but I think it is worthwhile to go

> > through with the testing even if you are suspected of having a

> > condition that has limited treatment options.

> >

> > I had the option of not having the muscle biopsy and had I not

gone

> > through with it, I would probably have received a " probable

> > mitochondrial disorder " diagnosis. The doctors were absolutely

> > positive that this was the problem and only wanted the biopsy to

> > determine what type of mito disorder I was dealing with. Even

> though

> > my situation may not be the norm, the added testing has prevented

> me

> > from starting a treatment regimen that would have offered no

> > benefit.

> >

> > I encourage everyone to persist until they get a specific answer

on

> > whatever condition they might have. As medicine continues to

> > advance, specific knowledge as to ones condition can only help as

> new

> > advances in treatment options are developed.

> >

> > All the best to everyone as we head into the New Year.

> >

> > Bob

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Medical advice, information, opinions, data and statements

> contained herein are not necessarily those of the list moderators.

> The author of this e mail is entirely responsible for its content.

> List members are reminded of their responsibility to evaluate the

> content of the postings and consult with their physicians regarding

> changes in their own treatment.

> >

> > Personal attacks are not permitted on the list and anyone who

sends

> one is automatically moderated or removed depending on the severity

> of the attack.

> >

> >

> >

> >

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Share on other sites

Same thing in Georgia - there was a person from Dr. Shoffner's office

witnessing the surgery, waiting for the muscle biopsy sample, so they

could rush it over immediately for testing and prep for other labs.

Take care,

RH

> >

> >

> > Well after a long wait, I've finally received the results from my

> > muscle biopsy and it appears that mitochondrial disorders have

been

> > ruled out. I know the doctors at UCLA were pretty surprised at

the

> > results as they were all but certain that I was dealing with a

> > mitochondrial issue of some sort.

> >

> > The biopsy did reveal significant denervation of my muscle tissue

> so

> > I'm back to where I started from in terms of having some sort of

> > neurological disorder. What surprised my doctors was the fact

that

> > the EMG and NCV studies failed to pick up signs of significant

> nerve

> > damage when the biopsy indicated some pretty major problems.

> >

> > I get to go in for more testing in order to pinpoint the problem

> but

> > now things are pointing towards an autoimmune disease. As a

> result,

> > I'll be searching out a support group focusing on this problem.

> >

> > I've benefited much from this site. All of the members are

> > awesome

> > in how they provide information and support for dealing with such

a

> > frustrating disorder.

> >

> > I do want to leave with some advice for all of those members that

> > remain undiagnosed. I to know the frustration of dealing with

> > doctors that think you are crazy and it's key to search out those

> > good physicians that are willing to listen. No rational person

> would

> > ever want such debilitating disorders and I have a tough time

> > understanding some doctors' attitudes.

> >

> > I've also learned a valuable lesson in persisting with tests to

> > identify the specific disorder that one is facing. Many

> > neuromuscular and mitochondrial disorders have overlapping

symptoms

> > and test results. Some of the tests that we endure for the

> > diagnostic process are not fun but I think it is worthwhile to go

> > through with the testing even if you are suspected of having a

> > condition that has limited treatment options.

> >

> > I had the option of not having the muscle biopsy and had I not

gone

> > through with it, I would probably have received a " probable

> > mitochondrial disorder " diagnosis. The doctors were absolutely

> > positive that this was the problem and only wanted the biopsy to

> > determine what type of mito disorder I was dealing with. Even

> though

> > my situation may not be the norm, the added testing has prevented

> me

> > from starting a treatment regimen that would have offered no

> > benefit.

> >

> > I encourage everyone to persist until they get a specific answer

on

> > whatever condition they might have. As medicine continues to

> > advance, specific knowledge as to ones condition can only help as

> new

> > advances in treatment options are developed.

> >

> > All the best to everyone as we head into the New Year.

> >

> > Bob

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Medical advice, information, opinions, data and statements

> contained herein are not necessarily those of the list moderators.

> The author of this e mail is entirely responsible for its content.

> List members are reminded of their responsibility to evaluate the

> content of the postings and consult with their physicians regarding

> changes in their own treatment.

> >

> > Personal attacks are not permitted on the list and anyone who

sends

> one is automatically moderated or removed depending on the severity

> of the attack.

> >

> >

> >

> >

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Share on other sites

> I'm back to where I started from in terms of having some sort of

> neurological disorder. What surprised my doctors was the fact that

> the EMG and NCV studies failed to pick up signs of significant

> nerve damage when the biopsy indicated some pretty major problems.

>

> I get to go in for more testing in order to pinpoint the problem

> but now things are pointing towards an autoimmune disease. As a

> result, I'll be searching out a support group focusing on this

> problem.

We have a lot of autoimmune disease in our family, they cover a LOT

of different issues. I fully believe my mitochondrial disease is due

to either a genetic autoimmune condition or environmental exposure.

Several of my doctors along the years thought I had myasthenia

gravis, which is an autoimmune disease, and I even responded to the

medication for it (but not completely). But that was disproven with

a single-fiber EMG test.

From your email, it doesn't sound like they did ox phos (oxidative

phosphorylation) or complex activity measurement - that is VERY

necessary for those of us who don't have ragged red fibers or

mitochondrial abnormalities. My " generic " mitochondria appearance

tests were normal, but the activities of the different complexes were

way off, which is not done with all muscle biopsies.

I also had a normal EMG and many normal brain MRIs. Have you had

your lactate and pyruvate levels tested? My understanding from my

mito doc is that having either high lactate, or a high (over 20)

lactate/pyruvate ratio in the blood is a strong indicator for

mitochondrial disease.

Take care,

RH

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Wow, your situation seems to mirror some of what I've gone through as

well. When I started this process, several doctors were convinced it

was MS only to be surprised by normal MRI's. Myasthenia Gravis was

on the list for a short time until the sensory neuropathy really

started to kick in.

I can't say for certain what all tests were run on my muscle tissue

but it appears that it was pretty exhaustive. I would be surprised

if they did not do some of the tests you referenced. If my lab bill

is any indication they should have tested for all kinds of stuff for

almost $5K. Thank goodness for having a good health insurance plan.

I do know that my lactate and pyruvate levels under both resting and

full stress testing remained normal. That was one of the conundrums

my doctor had when my CK and ammonia went high but everything else

remained normal. My body must really be a mess since my lab results

seem to be so unusual. The doctors were really amazed that the EMG

testing came up clean when the muscle biopsy showed the levels of

denervation that I had.

It's pretty amazing to see how much doctors still do not know.

Bob

>

> > I'm back to where I started from in terms of having some sort of

> > neurological disorder. What surprised my doctors was the fact

that

> > the EMG and NCV studies failed to pick up signs of significant

> > nerve damage when the biopsy indicated some pretty major problems.

> >

> > I get to go in for more testing in order to pinpoint the problem

> > but now things are pointing towards an autoimmune disease. As a

> > result, I'll be searching out a support group focusing on this

> > problem.

>

> We have a lot of autoimmune disease in our family, they cover a LOT

> of different issues. I fully believe my mitochondrial disease is

due

> to either a genetic autoimmune condition or environmental

exposure.

> Several of my doctors along the years thought I had myasthenia

> gravis, which is an autoimmune disease, and I even responded to the

> medication for it (but not completely). But that was disproven

with

> a single-fiber EMG test.

>

> From your email, it doesn't sound like they did ox phos (oxidative

> phosphorylation) or complex activity measurement - that is VERY

> necessary for those of us who don't have ragged red fibers or

> mitochondrial abnormalities. My " generic " mitochondria appearance

> tests were normal, but the activities of the different complexes

were

> way off, which is not done with all muscle biopsies.

>

> I also had a normal EMG and many normal brain MRIs. Have you had

> your lactate and pyruvate levels tested? My understanding from my

> mito doc is that having either high lactate, or a high (over 20)

> lactate/pyruvate ratio in the blood is a strong indicator for

> mitochondrial disease.

>

> Take care,

> RH

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Share on other sites

Wow, your situation seems to mirror some of what I've gone through as

well. When I started this process, several doctors were convinced it

was MS only to be surprised by normal MRI's. Myasthenia Gravis was

on the list for a short time until the sensory neuropathy really

started to kick in.

I can't say for certain what all tests were run on my muscle tissue

but it appears that it was pretty exhaustive. I would be surprised

if they did not do some of the tests you referenced. If my lab bill

is any indication they should have tested for all kinds of stuff for

almost $5K. Thank goodness for having a good health insurance plan.

I do know that my lactate and pyruvate levels under both resting and

full stress testing remained normal. That was one of the conundrums

my doctor had when my CK and ammonia went high but everything else

remained normal. My body must really be a mess since my lab results

seem to be so unusual. The doctors were really amazed that the EMG

testing came up clean when the muscle biopsy showed the levels of

denervation that I had.

It's pretty amazing to see how much doctors still do not know.

Bob

>

> > I'm back to where I started from in terms of having some sort of

> > neurological disorder. What surprised my doctors was the fact

that

> > the EMG and NCV studies failed to pick up signs of significant

> > nerve damage when the biopsy indicated some pretty major problems.

> >

> > I get to go in for more testing in order to pinpoint the problem

> > but now things are pointing towards an autoimmune disease. As a

> > result, I'll be searching out a support group focusing on this

> > problem.

>

> We have a lot of autoimmune disease in our family, they cover a LOT

> of different issues. I fully believe my mitochondrial disease is

due

> to either a genetic autoimmune condition or environmental

exposure.

> Several of my doctors along the years thought I had myasthenia

> gravis, which is an autoimmune disease, and I even responded to the

> medication for it (but not completely). But that was disproven

with

> a single-fiber EMG test.

>

> From your email, it doesn't sound like they did ox phos (oxidative

> phosphorylation) or complex activity measurement - that is VERY

> necessary for those of us who don't have ragged red fibers or

> mitochondrial abnormalities. My " generic " mitochondria appearance

> tests were normal, but the activities of the different complexes

were

> way off, which is not done with all muscle biopsies.

>

> I also had a normal EMG and many normal brain MRIs. Have you had

> your lactate and pyruvate levels tested? My understanding from my

> mito doc is that having either high lactate, or a high (over 20)

> lactate/pyruvate ratio in the blood is a strong indicator for

> mitochondrial disease.

>

> Take care,

> RH

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Share on other sites

Dr. Haas at UCSD has been doing fresh biopsies for quite a few years.

Someone in this group (I think it was this group) also mentioned that

Columbia is now doing fresh biopsies, but I don't have any independent

confirmation of that. Anyone know for sure?

B

_____

From: Laureta Fitzgerald

Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 3:44 PM

To:

Subject: Re: Re: Muscle Biopsy Results

The second place is Dr. Shoffner in Atlanta. I know there were other places

deciding if they should also be doing the fresh ones, but don't know if any

of them are also doing them.

laurie

>

> Reply-To:

> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 11:52:43 -0800 (PST)

> To:

> Subject: Re: Re: Muscle Biopsy Results

>

> Bob,

>

> Dr. Simpson told me that there are only two hospitals in the US that do

the

> total muscle biopsy test. That test the odidative chain and Complex

> defieciencies that are so hard to find. One is Cleveland Clinic and the

other

> one I do not remember but I know that it wasn't UCLA.

>

> The neuro at OSU, Dr. Sahenk, told me that they did fresh biopsies,

meaning

> that they test it at OSU, but on the lab report it said that the sample

was

> frozen before the test. Hence you might call it a fresh/FROZEN biopsy.

>

>

>

> javaruck bob.rucker@...> wrote:

>

>

> Wow, your situation seems to mirror some of what I've gone through as

> well. When I started this process, several doctors were convinced it

> was MS only to be surprised by normal MRI's. Myasthenia Gravis was

> on the list for a short time until the sensory neuropathy really

> started to kick in.

>

> I can't say for certain what all tests were run on my muscle tissue

> but it appears that it was pretty exhaustive. I would be surprised

> if they did not do some of the tests you referenced. If my lab bill

> is any indication they should have tested for all kinds of stuff for

> almost $5K. Thank goodness for having a good health insurance plan.

>

> I do know that my lactate and pyruvate levels under both resting and

> full stress testing remained normal. That was one of the conundrums

> my doctor had when my CK and ammonia went high but everything else

> remained normal. My body must really be a mess since my lab results

> seem to be so unusual. The doctors were really amazed that the EMG

> testing came up clean when the muscle biopsy showed the levels of

> denervation that I had.

>

> It's pretty amazing to see how much doctors still do not know.

>

> Bob

>

>

>>

>>> I'm back to where I started from in terms of having some sort of

>>> neurological disorder. What surprised my doctors was the fact

> that

>>> the EMG and NCV studies failed to pick up signs of significant

>>> nerve damage when the biopsy indicated some pretty major problems.

>>>

>>> I get to go in for more testing in order to pinpoint the problem

>>> but now things are pointing towards an autoimmune disease. As a

>>> result, I'll be searching out a support group focusing on this

>>> problem.

>>

>> We have a lot of autoimmune disease in our family, they cover a LOT

>> of different issues. I fully believe my mitochondrial disease is

> due

>> to either a genetic autoimmune condition or environmental

> exposure.

>> Several of my doctors along the years thought I had myasthenia

>> gravis, which is an autoimmune disease, and I even responded to the

>> medication for it (but not completely). But that was disproven

> with

>> a single-fiber EMG test.

>>

>> From your email, it doesn't sound like they did ox phos (oxidative

>> phosphorylation) or complex activity measurement - that is VERY

>> necessary for those of us who don't have ragged red fibers or

>> mitochondrial abnormalities. My " generic " mitochondria appearance

>> tests were normal, but the activities of the different complexes

> were

>> way off, which is not done with all muscle biopsies.

>>

>> I also had a normal EMG and many normal brain MRIs. Have you had

>> your lactate and pyruvate levels tested? My understanding from my

>> mito doc is that having either high lactate, or a high (over 20)

>> lactate/pyruvate ratio in the blood is a strong indicator for

>> mitochondrial disease.

>>

>> Take care,

>> RH

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Medical advice, information, opinions, data and statements contained

herein

> are not necessarily those of the list moderators. The author of this e

mail is

> entirely responsible for its content. List members are reminded of their

> responsibility to evaluate the content of the postings and consult with

their

> physicians regarding changes in their own treatment.

>

> Personal attacks are not permitted on the list and anyone who sends one is

> automatically moderated or removed depending on the severity of the

attack.

>

>

>

>

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Hi RH,

You asked about high ammonia. I am wondering if your glutamine is high in your

Urine Amino Acids, and your Blood Amino Acids?

Is this where your high ammonia levels are coming from?

Ann-Marie

Re: Muscle Biopsy Results

FYI, the full cost of the fresh muscle biopsy was around $12K, the

vast majority of which was testing...

BTW, are you on anything for high ammonia, I'm struggling with that

now...

Take care,

RH

> >

> > > I'm back to where I started from in terms of having some sort

of

> > > neurological disorder. What surprised my doctors was the fact

> that

> > > the EMG and NCV studies failed to pick up signs of significant

> > > nerve damage when the biopsy indicated some pretty major

problems.

> > >

> > > I get to go in for more testing in order to pinpoint the

problem

> > > but now things are pointing towards an autoimmune disease. As

a

> > > result, I'll be searching out a support group focusing on this

> > > problem.

> >

> > We have a lot of autoimmune disease in our family, they cover a

LOT

> > of different issues. I fully believe my mitochondrial disease is

> due

> > to either a genetic autoimmune condition or environmental

> exposure.

> > Several of my doctors along the years thought I had myasthenia

> > gravis, which is an autoimmune disease, and I even responded to

the

> > medication for it (but not completely). But that was disproven

> with

> > a single-fiber EMG test.

> >

> > From your email, it doesn't sound like they did ox phos

(oxidative

> > phosphorylation) or complex activity measurement - that is VERY

> > necessary for those of us who don't have ragged red fibers or

> > mitochondrial abnormalities. My " generic " mitochondria

appearance

> > tests were normal, but the activities of the different complexes

> were

> > way off, which is not done with all muscle biopsies.

> >

> > I also had a normal EMG and many normal brain MRIs. Have you had

> > your lactate and pyruvate levels tested? My understanding from

my

> > mito doc is that having either high lactate, or a high (over 20)

> > lactate/pyruvate ratio in the blood is a strong indicator for

> > mitochondrial disease.

> >

> > Take care,

> > RH

Medical advice, information, opinions, data and statements contained herein

are not necessarily those of the list moderators. The author of this e mail is

entirely responsible for its content. List members are reminded of their

responsibility to evaluate the content of the postings and consult with their

physicians regarding changes in their own treatment.

Personal attacks are not permitted on the list and anyone who sends one is

automatically moderated or removed depending on the severity of the attack.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

RH,

I just checked my insurance status and found that my biopsy is now at

over $10K and climbing...

I suppose the lab test bills will continue to trickle in for awhile

longer. Rare disorders sure aren't cheap! All this testing and I'm

still in diagnostic no mans land. The doctor made some noise about a

spinal tap next - yuck...

In regards to my high ammonia levels I'm not on any treatment. My

levels only go high when under extreme physiological stress. As soon

as I go back to a resting state, the ammonia goes back to normal.

Same thing with my CK levels.

Good luck finding a treatment to get yours under control.

Bob

> > >

> > > > I'm back to where I started from in terms of having some sort

> of

> > > > neurological disorder. What surprised my doctors was the

fact

> > that

> > > > the EMG and NCV studies failed to pick up signs of

significant

> > > > nerve damage when the biopsy indicated some pretty major

> problems.

> > > >

> > > > I get to go in for more testing in order to pinpoint the

> problem

> > > > but now things are pointing towards an autoimmune disease.

As

> a

> > > > result, I'll be searching out a support group focusing on

this

> > > > problem.

> > >

> > > We have a lot of autoimmune disease in our family, they cover a

> LOT

> > > of different issues. I fully believe my mitochondrial disease

is

> > due

> > > to either a genetic autoimmune condition or environmental

> > exposure.

> > > Several of my doctors along the years thought I had myasthenia

> > > gravis, which is an autoimmune disease, and I even responded to

> the

> > > medication for it (but not completely). But that was disproven

> > with

> > > a single-fiber EMG test.

> > >

> > > From your email, it doesn't sound like they did ox phos

> (oxidative

> > > phosphorylation) or complex activity measurement - that is VERY

> > > necessary for those of us who don't have ragged red fibers or

> > > mitochondrial abnormalities. My " generic " mitochondria

> appearance

> > > tests were normal, but the activities of the different

complexes

> > were

> > > way off, which is not done with all muscle biopsies.

> > >

> > > I also had a normal EMG and many normal brain MRIs. Have you

had

> > > your lactate and pyruvate levels tested? My understanding from

> my

> > > mito doc is that having either high lactate, or a high (over

20)

> > > lactate/pyruvate ratio in the blood is a strong indicator for

> > > mitochondrial disease.

> > >

> > > Take care,

> > > RH

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Bob

Are you having genetic testing done on your biopsy tissue? If so, don't be

surprised that the end cost is in the neighborhood of $40,000. I know, a

real shocker.

laurie

>

> Reply-To:

> Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 15:42:22 -0000

> To:

> Subject: Re: Muscle Biopsy Results

>

>

>

> RH,

>

> I just checked my insurance status and found that my biopsy is now at

> over $10K and climbing...

>

> I suppose the lab test bills will continue to trickle in for awhile

> longer. Rare disorders sure aren't cheap! All this testing and I'm

> still in diagnostic no mans land. The doctor made some noise about a

> spinal tap next - yuck...

>

> In regards to my high ammonia levels I'm not on any treatment. My

> levels only go high when under extreme physiological stress. As soon

> as I go back to a resting state, the ammonia goes back to normal.

> Same thing with my CK levels.

>

> Good luck finding a treatment to get yours under control.

>

> Bob

>

>

>>>>

>>>>> I'm back to where I started from in terms of having some sort

>> of

>>>>> neurological disorder. What surprised my doctors was the

> fact

>>> that

>>>>> the EMG and NCV studies failed to pick up signs of

> significant

>>>>> nerve damage when the biopsy indicated some pretty major

>> problems.

>>>>>

>>>>> I get to go in for more testing in order to pinpoint the

>> problem

>>>>> but now things are pointing towards an autoimmune disease.

> As

>> a

>>>>> result, I'll be searching out a support group focusing on

> this

>>>>> problem.

>>>>

>>>> We have a lot of autoimmune disease in our family, they cover a

>> LOT

>>>> of different issues. I fully believe my mitochondrial disease

> is

>>> due

>>>> to either a genetic autoimmune condition or environmental

>>> exposure.

>>>> Several of my doctors along the years thought I had myasthenia

>>>> gravis, which is an autoimmune disease, and I even responded to

>> the

>>>> medication for it (but not completely). But that was disproven

>>> with

>>>> a single-fiber EMG test.

>>>>

>>>> From your email, it doesn't sound like they did ox phos

>> (oxidative

>>>> phosphorylation) or complex activity measurement - that is VERY

>>>> necessary for those of us who don't have ragged red fibers or

>>>> mitochondrial abnormalities. My " generic " mitochondria

>> appearance

>>>> tests were normal, but the activities of the different

> complexes

>>> were

>>>> way off, which is not done with all muscle biopsies.

>>>>

>>>> I also had a normal EMG and many normal brain MRIs. Have you

> had

>>>> your lactate and pyruvate levels tested? My understanding from

>> my

>>>> mito doc is that having either high lactate, or a high (over

> 20)

>>>> lactate/pyruvate ratio in the blood is a strong indicator for

>>>> mitochondrial disease.

>>>>

>>>> Take care,

>>>> RH

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Medical advice, information, opinions, data and statements contained herein

> are not necessarily those of the list moderators. The author of this e mail is

> entirely responsible for its content. List members are reminded of their

> responsibility to evaluate the content of the postings and consult with their

> physicians regarding changes in their own treatment.

>

> Personal attacks are not permitted on the list and anyone who sends one is

> automatically moderated or removed depending on the severity of the attack.

>

>

>

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Laurie,

I wouldn't be surprised if they did given the thoroughness of the UCLA team

and the difficulties in nailing down a diagnosis. I'm very fortunate that I

paid for the upgraded medical insurance option that my employer offers

before all this nonsense started. It has opened many doors by avoiding HMO

bureaucracy and avoiding crippling out of pocket expenses.

Dumb luck on my part since I only did so because of my wife's insistence

since she wanted more flexibility to choose her own doctors. I complained

for 2 years about the payroll deductions that took a nice bite out of each

check as no one in my family every had any major medical conditions.

Needless to say, I count my lucky stars to have access to the kind of

medical care I'm getting. Given my prior track record of over 40 years of

good health, I never in a million years thought I'd be the one needing it.

Just goes to show one can never anticipate the curve balls life can throw at

you.

Bob

Re: Muscle Biopsy Results

>

>

>

> RH,

>

> I just checked my insurance status and found that my biopsy is now at

> over $10K and climbing...

>

> I suppose the lab test bills will continue to trickle in for awhile

> longer. Rare disorders sure aren't cheap! All this testing and I'm

> still in diagnostic no mans land. The doctor made some noise about a

> spinal tap next - yuck...

>

> In regards to my high ammonia levels I'm not on any treatment. My

> levels only go high when under extreme physiological stress. As soon

> as I go back to a resting state, the ammonia goes back to normal.

> Same thing with my CK levels.

>

> Good luck finding a treatment to get yours under control.

>

> Bob

>

>

>>>>

>>>>> I'm back to where I started from in terms of having some sort

>> of

>>>>> neurological disorder. What surprised my doctors was the

> fact

>>> that

>>>>> the EMG and NCV studies failed to pick up signs of

> significant

>>>>> nerve damage when the biopsy indicated some pretty major

>> problems.

>>>>>

>>>>> I get to go in for more testing in order to pinpoint the

>> problem

>>>>> but now things are pointing towards an autoimmune disease.

> As

>> a

>>>>> result, I'll be searching out a support group focusing on

> this

>>>>> problem.

>>>>

>>>> We have a lot of autoimmune disease in our family, they cover a

>> LOT

>>>> of different issues. I fully believe my mitochondrial disease

> is

>>> due

>>>> to either a genetic autoimmune condition or environmental

>>> exposure.

>>>> Several of my doctors along the years thought I had myasthenia

>>>> gravis, which is an autoimmune disease, and I even responded to

>> the

>>>> medication for it (but not completely). But that was disproven

>>> with

>>>> a single-fiber EMG test.

>>>>

>>>> From your email, it doesn't sound like they did ox phos

>> (oxidative

>>>> phosphorylation) or complex activity measurement - that is VERY

>>>> necessary for those of us who don't have ragged red fibers or

>>>> mitochondrial abnormalities. My " generic " mitochondria

>> appearance

>>>> tests were normal, but the activities of the different

> complexes

>>> were

>>>> way off, which is not done with all muscle biopsies.

>>>>

>>>> I also had a normal EMG and many normal brain MRIs. Have you

> had

>>>> your lactate and pyruvate levels tested? My understanding from

>> my

>>>> mito doc is that having either high lactate, or a high (over

> 20)

>>>> lactate/pyruvate ratio in the blood is a strong indicator for

>>>> mitochondrial disease.

>>>>

>>>> Take care,

>>>> RH

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Medical advice, information, opinions, data and statements contained

herein

> are not necessarily those of the list moderators. The author of this e

mail is

> entirely responsible for its content. List members are reminded of their

> responsibility to evaluate the content of the postings and consult with

their

> physicians regarding changes in their own treatment.

>

> Personal attacks are not permitted on the list and anyone who sends one is

> automatically moderated or removed depending on the severity of the

attack.

>

>

>

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, I don't think so, I've had normal amino acid profiles in both

blood and urine. They don't have a clue why I have high ammonia, in

fact, they don't think it is related to a high protein diet, because

I had it before I went on the diet as well.

This is an important question I'll have for my mito doc when I see

her next month.

Take care,

RH

> > >

> > > > I'm back to where I started from in terms of having some

sort

> of

> > > > neurological disorder. What surprised my doctors was the

fact

> > that

> > > > the EMG and NCV studies failed to pick up signs of

significant

> > > > nerve damage when the biopsy indicated some pretty major

> problems.

> > > >

> > > > I get to go in for more testing in order to pinpoint the

> problem

> > > > but now things are pointing towards an autoimmune disease.

As

> a

> > > > result, I'll be searching out a support group focusing on

this

> > > > problem.

> > >

> > > We have a lot of autoimmune disease in our family, they cover

a

> LOT

> > > of different issues. I fully believe my mitochondrial

disease is

> > due

> > > to either a genetic autoimmune condition or environmental

> > exposure.

> > > Several of my doctors along the years thought I had

myasthenia

> > > gravis, which is an autoimmune disease, and I even responded

to

> the

> > > medication for it (but not completely). But that was

disproven

> > with

> > > a single-fiber EMG test.

> > >

> > > From your email, it doesn't sound like they did ox phos

> (oxidative

> > > phosphorylation) or complex activity measurement - that is

VERY

> > > necessary for those of us who don't have ragged red fibers or

> > > mitochondrial abnormalities. My " generic " mitochondria

> appearance

> > > tests were normal, but the activities of the different

complexes

> > were

> > > way off, which is not done with all muscle biopsies.

> > >

> > > I also had a normal EMG and many normal brain MRIs. Have you

had

> > > your lactate and pyruvate levels tested? My understanding

from

> my

> > > mito doc is that having either high lactate, or a high (over

20)

> > > lactate/pyruvate ratio in the blood is a strong indicator for

> > > mitochondrial disease.

> > >

> > > Take care,

> > > RH

>

>

>

>

>

> Medical advice, information, opinions, data and statements

contained herein are not necessarily those of the list moderators.

The author of this e mail is entirely responsible for its content.

List members are reminded of their responsibility to evaluate the

content of the postings and consult with their physicians regarding

changes in their own treatment.

>

> Personal attacks are not permitted on the list and anyone who

sends one is automatically moderated or removed depending on the

severity of the attack.

>

>

>

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The reason that my high ammonia levels are treated is that they think

my episodes of confusion and short term memory loss are due to it.

The number of episodes has decreased significantly, from several

times per day, sometimes for whole days, down to maybe one or two

short episodes per week.

Blood ammonia levels are weird - some people can have almost deadly

levels of ammonia with no symptoms, and others can have near normal

levels with severe symptoms.

Take care,

RH

> > > >

> > > > > I'm back to where I started from in terms of having some

sort

> > of

> > > > > neurological disorder. What surprised my doctors was the

> fact

> > > that

> > > > > the EMG and NCV studies failed to pick up signs of

> significant

> > > > > nerve damage when the biopsy indicated some pretty major

> > problems.

> > > > >

> > > > > I get to go in for more testing in order to pinpoint the

> > problem

> > > > > but now things are pointing towards an autoimmune disease.

> As

> > a

> > > > > result, I'll be searching out a support group focusing on

> this

> > > > > problem.

> > > >

> > > > We have a lot of autoimmune disease in our family, they cover

a

> > LOT

> > > > of different issues. I fully believe my mitochondrial

disease

> is

> > > due

> > > > to either a genetic autoimmune condition or environmental

> > > exposure.

> > > > Several of my doctors along the years thought I had

myasthenia

> > > > gravis, which is an autoimmune disease, and I even responded

to

> > the

> > > > medication for it (but not completely). But that was

disproven

> > > with

> > > > a single-fiber EMG test.

> > > >

> > > > From your email, it doesn't sound like they did ox phos

> > (oxidative

> > > > phosphorylation) or complex activity measurement - that is

VERY

> > > > necessary for those of us who don't have ragged red fibers or

> > > > mitochondrial abnormalities. My " generic " mitochondria

> > appearance

> > > > tests were normal, but the activities of the different

> complexes

> > > were

> > > > way off, which is not done with all muscle biopsies.

> > > >

> > > > I also had a normal EMG and many normal brain MRIs. Have you

> had

> > > > your lactate and pyruvate levels tested? My understanding

from

> > my

> > > > mito doc is that having either high lactate, or a high (over

> 20)

> > > > lactate/pyruvate ratio in the blood is a strong indicator for

> > > > mitochondrial disease.

> > > >

> > > > Take care,

> > > > RH

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Share on other sites

I'm excited to be changing from a HMO to a PPO on Jan. 1st.

Hopefully it will make our lives (and our primary care doctor's life)

a lot easier.

Take care,

RH

> >>>>

> >>>>> I'm back to where I started from in terms of having some sort

> >> of

> >>>>> neurological disorder. What surprised my doctors was the

> > fact

> >>> that

> >>>>> the EMG and NCV studies failed to pick up signs of

> > significant

> >>>>> nerve damage when the biopsy indicated some pretty major

> >> problems.

> >>>>>

> >>>>> I get to go in for more testing in order to pinpoint the

> >> problem

> >>>>> but now things are pointing towards an autoimmune disease.

> > As

> >> a

> >>>>> result, I'll be searching out a support group focusing on

> > this

> >>>>> problem.

> >>>>

> >>>> We have a lot of autoimmune disease in our family, they cover a

> >> LOT

> >>>> of different issues. I fully believe my mitochondrial disease

> > is

> >>> due

> >>>> to either a genetic autoimmune condition or environmental

> >>> exposure.

> >>>> Several of my doctors along the years thought I had myasthenia

> >>>> gravis, which is an autoimmune disease, and I even responded to

> >> the

> >>>> medication for it (but not completely). But that was disproven

> >>> with

> >>>> a single-fiber EMG test.

> >>>>

> >>>> From your email, it doesn't sound like they did ox phos

> >> (oxidative

> >>>> phosphorylation) or complex activity measurement - that is VERY

> >>>> necessary for those of us who don't have ragged red fibers or

> >>>> mitochondrial abnormalities. My " generic " mitochondria

> >> appearance

> >>>> tests were normal, but the activities of the different

> > complexes

> >>> were

> >>>> way off, which is not done with all muscle biopsies.

> >>>>

> >>>> I also had a normal EMG and many normal brain MRIs. Have you

> > had

> >>>> your lactate and pyruvate levels tested? My understanding from

> >> my

> >>>> mito doc is that having either high lactate, or a high (over

> > 20)

> >>>> lactate/pyruvate ratio in the blood is a strong indicator for

> >>>> mitochondrial disease.

> >>>>

> >>>> Take care,

> >>>> RH

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Medical advice, information, opinions, data and statements

contained

> herein

> > are not necessarily those of the list moderators. The author of

this e

> mail is

> > entirely responsible for its content. List members are reminded

of their

> > responsibility to evaluate the content of the postings and

consult with

> their

> > physicians regarding changes in their own treatment.

> >

> > Personal attacks are not permitted on the list and anyone who

sends one is

> > automatically moderated or removed depending on the severity of

the

> attack.

> >

> >

> >

> >

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was told by a lab tech from C-P back in 2002 that they *were not*

doing fresh muscle biopsies, " because the doctor doesn't see a need

for it " . The lady I talked to was pretty rude.

Anyway, my understanding is that the whole program was shut down and

restarted, I think in 2002, and they now do fresh muscle biopsies.

Because I wasn't sure about C-P, I went to Georgia instead, even

though NYC is local to me.

Take care,

RH

> >>

> >>> I'm back to where I started from in terms of having some sort of

> >>> neurological disorder. What surprised my doctors was the fact

> > that

> >>> the EMG and NCV studies failed to pick up signs of significant

> >>> nerve damage when the biopsy indicated some pretty major

problems.

> >>>

> >>> I get to go in for more testing in order to pinpoint the problem

> >>> but now things are pointing towards an autoimmune disease. As a

> >>> result, I'll be searching out a support group focusing on this

> >>> problem.

> >>

> >> We have a lot of autoimmune disease in our family, they cover a

LOT

> >> of different issues. I fully believe my mitochondrial disease is

> > due

> >> to either a genetic autoimmune condition or environmental

> > exposure.

> >> Several of my doctors along the years thought I had myasthenia

> >> gravis, which is an autoimmune disease, and I even responded to

the

> >> medication for it (but not completely). But that was disproven

> > with

> >> a single-fiber EMG test.

> >>

> >> From your email, it doesn't sound like they did ox phos

(oxidative

> >> phosphorylation) or complex activity measurement - that is VERY

> >> necessary for those of us who don't have ragged red fibers or

> >> mitochondrial abnormalities. My " generic " mitochondria

appearance

> >> tests were normal, but the activities of the different complexes

> > were

> >> way off, which is not done with all muscle biopsies.

> >>

> >> I also had a normal EMG and many normal brain MRIs. Have you had

> >> your lactate and pyruvate levels tested? My understanding from

my

> >> mito doc is that having either high lactate, or a high (over 20)

> >> lactate/pyruvate ratio in the blood is a strong indicator for

> >> mitochondrial disease.

> >>

> >> Take care,

> >> RH

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Medical advice, information, opinions, data and statements

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RH

I hope this improves your health care and frustrations.

laurie

>

> Reply-To:

> Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 16:48:19 -0000

> To:

> Subject: Re: Muscle Biopsy Results

>

>

> I'm excited to be changing from a HMO to a PPO on Jan. 1st.

> Hopefully it will make our lives (and our primary care doctor's life)

> a lot easier.

>

> Take care,

> RH

>

>

>

>>>>>>

>>>>>>> I'm back to where I started from in terms of having some sort

>>>> of

>>>>>>> neurological disorder. What surprised my doctors was the

>>> fact

>>>>> that

>>>>>>> the EMG and NCV studies failed to pick up signs of

>>> significant

>>>>>>> nerve damage when the biopsy indicated some pretty major

>>>> problems.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> I get to go in for more testing in order to pinpoint the

>>>> problem

>>>>>>> but now things are pointing towards an autoimmune disease.

>>> As

>>>> a

>>>>>>> result, I'll be searching out a support group focusing on

>>> this

>>>>>>> problem.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> We have a lot of autoimmune disease in our family, they cover a

>>>> LOT

>>>>>> of different issues. I fully believe my mitochondrial disease

>>> is

>>>>> due

>>>>>> to either a genetic autoimmune condition or environmental

>>>>> exposure.

>>>>>> Several of my doctors along the years thought I had myasthenia

>>>>>> gravis, which is an autoimmune disease, and I even responded to

>>>> the

>>>>>> medication for it (but not completely). But that was disproven

>>>>> with

>>>>>> a single-fiber EMG test.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> From your email, it doesn't sound like they did ox phos

>>>> (oxidative

>>>>>> phosphorylation) or complex activity measurement - that is VERY

>>>>>> necessary for those of us who don't have ragged red fibers or

>>>>>> mitochondrial abnormalities. My " generic " mitochondria

>>>> appearance

>>>>>> tests were normal, but the activities of the different

>>> complexes

>>>>> were

>>>>>> way off, which is not done with all muscle biopsies.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> I also had a normal EMG and many normal brain MRIs. Have you

>>> had

>>>>>> your lactate and pyruvate levels tested? My understanding from

>>>> my

>>>>>> mito doc is that having either high lactate, or a high (over

>>> 20)

>>>>>> lactate/pyruvate ratio in the blood is a strong indicator for

>>>>>> mitochondrial disease.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Take care,

>>>>>> RH

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Medical advice, information, opinions, data and statements

> contained

>> herein

>>> are not necessarily those of the list moderators. The author of

> this e

>> mail is

>>> entirely responsible for its content. List members are reminded

> of their

>>> responsibility to evaluate the content of the postings and

> consult with

>> their

>>> physicians regarding changes in their own treatment.

>>>

>>> Personal attacks are not permitted on the list and anyone who

> sends one is

>>> automatically moderated or removed depending on the severity of

> the

>> attack.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

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