legal advice

February 15, 2004

First, I am so sorry that you have such pain and trouble. And I

would agree

with that getting rid of the pain, and the trouble, would be my

first priority in your circumstance.

I'm not giving legal advice. I'm not a lawyer, and I hate, hate, hate

going to court, which I have done only on civil matters. But:

Does your surgeon offer any hope of help for you? Is he deaf to your

complaints of pain? That's for sure where I would start, and I

believe my man would be sympathetic and try to help. Now if you

really believe your surgeon was incompetent, that's another ballgame.

But friend, because your brother is a radiation oncologist, that does

not mean that he knows didly squat about the complex

operations of the jaws and joints. Would I trust a qualified

radiation oncologist to plan treatment of my cancer? Heck, yes! (In

fact, I have done, and have the greatest respect for the ones I

know.) Would I trust those same folks to deal with my issues of jaw

surgery? Heck, no! HECK, NO! And I would honestly be surprised if

they would take on passing a judgment in such matters. They don't

have the training to know.

Will (or has) your brother go/gone with you to the surgeon to ask

whatever

questions he has about the procedure and what happened in it? That's

where I'd start. He's questioning what the expert did, and if he's

willing to do it face to face, you may have a start on getting

somewhere.

I, too, suspect that a lawsuit may be self-defeating, unless you have

some solid ground for believing that the doc did you wrong.

In any case, I hope you find relief for your pain and suffering.

Cammie

> >, Thanks for the information about your friend and her

> experience. The more information the better. I am living in Port

> Coquitlam, B.C.. I had severe and constant pain starting at 10

months

> post-op. The surgeon admitted the day after the surgery that when

he

> moved my lower jaw forward that he had to rotate the jaw to the

left

> side and pin it(to make it fit properly) and that it is a

> bit 'bunched up' on the left side. As time went on, and feeling

came

> back, I was always aware that the left side felt funny and that it

> felt tight. I have been seeing my dentist, ortho, physio, surgeon,

> oral medicine specialist, rheumatologist, and had an MRI done

> recently. Nothing is improving and the specialist(among others) are

> still investigating. I just want the pain to go away so that I can

> get back to work as a teacher. The reason that I am looking at

sueing

> is that my brother(he is a radiation oncologist) has examined all

of

> my health records from the surgery, MRI, etc. and he thinks that

the

> surgeon did screw up the operation. I am losing a lot of money in

> medical expenses, lost sick days from work, etc.. I just want the

> surgeon to take responsibility for what he did. I had no pain or

jaw

> problems at all before the surgery. Anyways, it has been a living

> hell and I was just wondering if anyone had won at a lawsuit. I

know

> that the chances will be extremely slim to prove it.

> Thanks again for the info. I appreciate it.

> Mike on the Left Coast

February 15, 2004

Thanks for all of the information! I will definitely try to do some of what

you suggest. I spoke with an oral surgeon(that my brother went to med school

with here in B.C.) from Los Angeles a few days ago(he also viewed the MRI

results). He has done 100 or so of these operations in California and he

said that my probable condition post-op is rare, but possibly with long

term pain. I am seeing a lawyer here next week (they work on contingency in

B.C.) and I will ask him some of what you have listed here. Once again

thanks. I am going to see several lawyers to see if any of them think that

there may be a case. I hate doing this, but I have to try something.

Cheers

>From: till_shiloh no_reply >

>Reply-To: orthognathicsurgerysupport

>To: orthognathicsurgerysupport

>Subject: [Orthognathic Surgery Support ] Re: legal advice

>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 02:59:17 -0000

>

>Hi,

>Being a fellow Canadian I might suggest that you take your file

>accross the border or to a surgeon not in your surgeons field of

>practice. I suggested the states as not many canadians sue their

>doctors as probably due to better disability coverage and our own

>more accomodating natures...

>

>But you'll probably be hard pressed to get a canadian oral surgeon

>to agree with you? But a doctor out of the area...might be more

>willing. Also there is more business done of the malpractice kind.

>You might also want to see about questioning any other professional

>attending your surgery- like a nurse. Nurses usually talk more..

>And that info should be on your file?

>

>You might want to start with your medical release and see if any

>procedures done that ended up in your jaw being pinned and bunched

>up was something you did not consent to. There are many reasons you

>can sue, malpractice, nonconsent, pain and suffering is probably the

>hardest...

>

>Do you have a lawyer? Sometimes lawsuits are settled based on how

>aggressive they think you could be, not necessarily the merrits of

>the case. The doctor will have malpractice insurance, fighting a

>claim might cost them x dollars, find out that amount and you may

>get a settlement pretty quickly just to be quiet.

>

> A lawyer might be helpful in getting answers for you, they can

>subpeonna anyone who attended your surgery. Also think of seeing if

>this doctor has any other complaints, they should be somewhat public

>record. Find out who the governing body is and start making minor

>inquiries. You could also probably search to see if there have ever

>been any suits filed against that doctor. Also if you do retain a

>lawyer try to find one that has either in their practice or they do

>most of their work defending doctors againts malpractice.

>

>Also you might want to see if you have a dental school around,

>perhaps a professor of dental surgery could explain things to you,

>and you'd be able to see if things did go wrong. Teachers will be

>able to say wow that technique was controversial or known to cause

>nerve damages....we stopped using that one...and give you more

>grounds to fight on.

>

>And above all document all your troubles. As if you do sue it is

>you who often goes on trial first.

>

>If you have a workplace insurance programme you can see about

>getting their legal team going as trust me they'd rather your

>surgeon's insurance pay for your disablity than them.

>

>And if no one listens then maybe your local media might, find out

>who does investigative journalism in your area.

>

>And above all really think if its worth it as lawsuits are so

>draining and you are up against big goliaths in the medial world.

>

>SHiloh

> >

> > > >, Thanks for the information about your friend and her

> > > experience. The more information the better. I am living in Port

> > > Coquitlam, B.C.. I had severe and constant pain starting at 10

> > months

> > > post-op. The surgeon admitted the day after the surgery that when

> > he

> > > moved my lower jaw forward that he had to rotate the jaw to the

> > left

> > > side and pin it(to make it fit properly) and that it is a

> > > bit 'bunched up' on the left side. As time went on, and feeling

> > came

> > > back, I was always aware that the left side felt funny and that

>it

> > > felt tight. I have been seeing my dentist, ortho, physio,

>surgeon,

> > > oral medicine specialist, rheumatologist, and had an MRI done

> > > recently. Nothing is improving and the specialist(among others)

>are

> > > still investigating. I just want the pain to go away so that I

>can

> > > get back to work as a teacher. The reason that I am looking at

> > sueing

> > > is that my brother(he is a radiation oncologist) has examined all

> > of

> > > my health records from the surgery, MRI, etc. and he thinks that

> > the

> > > surgeon did screw up the operation. I am losing a lot of money in

> > > medical expenses, lost sick days from work, etc.. I just want the

> > > surgeon to take responsibility for what he did. I had no pain or

> > jaw

> > > problems at all before the surgery. Anyways, it has been a living

> > > hell and I was just wondering if anyone had won at a lawsuit. I

> > know

> > > that the chances will be extremely slim to prove it.

> > > Thanks again for the info. I appreciate it.

> > > Mike on the Left Coast

>

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February 15, 2004

Cammie,

Thanks for the information. I agree- I dream of being pain free. My oral

surgeon has been helping me, but he said that he has now tried all that he

knows of and needs to refer me to a oral medicine specialist(I've been going

to see her now for one month). Fortunately, she is one of the best in North

America in her field from all reports that I have. I don't necessarily feel

that my oral surgeon was incompetent(he has a very good reputation and

record), but I feel that he did not adequately warn me of the possible

results of the surgery. I have scoured the consent form, and nothing on

there comes close to describing what actually happened. Also, when he did

the practice surgery on a model of my mouth before the operation, he said

that everything fit together as planned. I realize that my brother's

expertise is not in oral surgery, but he does know where to find evidence of

screw ups in operations(which he says happen a lot more than the public

believes-especially when the surgeon lets an underling do part of the

operation, as happened in my case).

Unfortunately, my brother is not allowed to question the surgeon about the

success of the surgery itself (B.C.'s medical code of ethics).

At any rate, if I can find any way of getting the surgeon to admit that he

screwed up, and to get some money from him(to compensate the thousands of

dollars spent by me post-op so far), I will.

Thanks again for the information, and believe me I want the pain to go away,

but for justice to prevail as well.

Mike

>From: ceast36532 no_reply >

>Reply-To: orthognathicsurgerysupport

>To: orthognathicsurgerysupport

>Subject: [Orthognathic Surgery Support ] legal advice

>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 00:44:27 -0000

>

> First, I am so sorry that you have such pain and trouble. And I

>would agree

>with that getting rid of the pain, and the trouble, would be my

>first priority in your circumstance.

>

>I'm not giving legal advice. I'm not a lawyer, and I hate, hate, hate

>going to court, which I have done only on civil matters. But:

>

>Does your surgeon offer any hope of help for you? Is he deaf to your

>complaints of pain? That's for sure where I would start, and I

>believe my man would be sympathetic and try to help. Now if you

>really believe your surgeon was incompetent, that's another ballgame.

>

>But friend, because your brother is a radiation oncologist, that does

>not mean that he knows didly squat about the complex

>operations of the jaws and joints. Would I trust a qualified

>radiation oncologist to plan treatment of my cancer? Heck, yes! (In

>fact, I have done, and have the greatest respect for the ones I

>know.) Would I trust those same folks to deal with my issues of jaw

>surgery? Heck, no! HECK, NO! And I would honestly be surprised if

>they would take on passing a judgment in such matters. They don't

>have the training to know.

>

>Will (or has) your brother go/gone with you to the surgeon to ask

>whatever

>questions he has about the procedure and what happened in it? That's

>where I'd start. He's questioning what the expert did, and if he's

>willing to do it face to face, you may have a start on getting

>somewhere.

>

>I, too, suspect that a lawsuit may be self-defeating, unless you have

>some solid ground for believing that the doc did you wrong.

>

>In any case, I hope you find relief for your pain and suffering.

>

>Cammie

>

> > >, Thanks for the information about your friend and her

> > experience. The more information the better. I am living in Port

> > Coquitlam, B.C.. I had severe and constant pain starting at 10

>months

> > post-op. The surgeon admitted the day after the surgery that when

>he

> > moved my lower jaw forward that he had to rotate the jaw to the

>left

> > side and pin it(to make it fit properly) and that it is a

> > bit 'bunched up' on the left side. As time went on, and feeling

>came

> > back, I was always aware that the left side felt funny and that it

> > felt tight. I have been seeing my dentist, ortho, physio, surgeon,

> > oral medicine specialist, rheumatologist, and had an MRI done

> > recently. Nothing is improving and the specialist(among others) are

> > still investigating. I just want the pain to go away so that I can

> > get back to work as a teacher. The reason that I am looking at

>sueing

> > is that my brother(he is a radiation oncologist) has examined all

>of

> > my health records from the surgery, MRI, etc. and he thinks that

>the

> > surgeon did screw up the operation. I am losing a lot of money in

> > medical expenses, lost sick days from work, etc.. I just want the

> > surgeon to take responsibility for what he did. I had no pain or

>jaw

> > problems at all before the surgery. Anyways, it has been a living

> > hell and I was just wondering if anyone had won at a lawsuit. I

>know

> > that the chances will be extremely slim to prove it.

> > Thanks again for the info. I appreciate it.

> > Mike on the Left Coast

>

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February 15, 2004