Re: Another point of view...

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/11/2004 4:40:36 AM Pacific Standard Time, j459g@...

writes:

> I have to disagree with you here.

> If, as diabetics, we go out there and

> carbo load as sports figures do, we

> would certainly be in trouble. Our

> bodies cannot tollerate a huge load

> of carbs.

Nobody said anything about " carboloading "

or " huge load of carbs " , Marilyn. You

appear to me to be arguing against

statements that haven't been made by

anybody.

, it was you who said we could double our carbs and it would be fine.

That is carbo loading!!!

> This is why I say 45 is a good place

> to start per meal.

OK, but where do you get the " 45 " from?

If I convert that to energy I get:

45 g CHO x 4.2 kcal/g = 189 kcal/meal

from carbohydrates.

45 grams of carbs per meal is equal to 3 exchanges. Does this equate to you?

If I take 3 meals a day and allow

another 45 g CHO for snacks, etc., I

get 180 grams carbohydrate per day,

which is just about what I am getting

right now and taking the recommended

proportions, 15e% protein, 30e% fat

and 50e% carbohydrate that makes 1500

kcals/day which for me is a gentle

slimming diet - I am just about losing

weight on it, but slowly.

A 1500 calorie a day diet is a 90 carb a day diet. Which is 6 diabetic

exchanges.

So we are in full agreement so far. I don't think so ;-)

Where we do not seem to be agreeing is

that I take the 45g as an average and

you appear to me to be setting it as a

hard " limit " per meal. Even if I try

hard, I cannot see why breakfast,

lunch, dinner and snacks should all

have the same basic composition limit:

45 g carbohydrates per meal!

Every diabetic needs a place to start. When a diabetic goes into see a

dietician or diabetic educator, they are given an approximate number of calories

and carbs a day. This amount will never be exactly the amount you eat.

Sometimes you are not so hungry, sometimes you are hungrier. I do recommend, if

you

are hungrier, you try to fill yourself with non carb fillers. If you

overshoot carbs by too much, you will have a raised bg and might not feel so

good

afterwards.

For a type 2 diabetic on oral medi-

cation, what would you have against

60 g CHO for breakfast, 50 g CHO for

lunch, 40 g CHO for dinner, and 30 g

spread out throughout the day as

snacks ?

, don't you man carbs? Cho is cholesterol to me ;-) Those figures for

me would be too high. Maybe an athlete who was burning them off could get

araw with it. I doubt we have many athletes here ;-)

That is still 180 grams CHO for the

entire day and an average of 45 grams

CHO per meal, including snacks.

Taking it a step further, what do you

have against 180 grams carbohydrate

one day, 200 grams the next day and

160 grams the day after? That is still

an average of 180 grams carbohydrate

per day.

, I wish this were an exact science, but lets face it, it's not! I just

really feel you are misleading those who don't need to be sacrificed to the

slaughter. They have enough difficulties just learning about dietary

restrictions with out some cowboy throwing all these numbers into the blend. If

someone who has been a diabetic long enough wants to mes around with his

numbers,

that is his or her choice. But lets not be too quick to post these numbers and

say it is okay. okay?

I don't think that we are so very far

apart, Marilyn. It is just a matter

of whether the 45g is to be considered

as a hard " limit " or merely as a

long-term average.

Long term average, yes, every day is a little different, but not 90 grams a

meal worth!

Taking it as a limit makes it difficult

to follow some of the recipes that you

post yourself, which is what I was

originally questioning. You said that

you hesitated to post the recipe

because it came near the " limit " . If

people are willing to accept the idea

of averages, they can even take a

second helping and make up for it the

next day - or the day after that.

I agree, which is why I put the note there. I realize there are special

times you do " diffverent " things, but for the most part, the recipes I post are

well within target range and are complete meal by themselves. Right? ;-)

This is an important point, I feel:

Whether non-insulin-dependent type 2

diabetics in good control are to feel

constrained by restrictive " rules "

or whether they can feel free to live

much like non-diabetics, except for

balancing out their longterm energy

intake consciously instead of having

it done for them automatically as

non-diabetics do.

, you forget most (not all, I know) diabetics are on a weight loss

program, counting calories or exchanges. I think we all have a certain amount

of

following the rules that is required, don't you? We just don't want to give

someone the idea that because someone (we all know him ;-) is feeling a little

constraint, we should all go out and double our carbs! Now, don't you feel

better? I do ;-) Hugs, Marilyn

Regards

Marilyn

Moderator for

Diabetic_Recipes

dnevessr@...

Opinions expressed are solely

my own and should not be

mistaken for

Professional advice.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/11/2004 5:03:06 PM Pacific Standard Time,

rfong_tom3@... writes:

oh um...just thought i'd mention CHO is an abbrev. for carbs. refers

to the molecular structure i do believe.

ok, but not trying to elbow my way in between!

rach

Interesting, what do they use for cholesterol then? Any idea? Hugs, Marilyn

Marilyn

Moderator for

Diabetic_Recipes

dnevessr@...

Opinions expressed are solely

my own and should not be

mistaken for

Professional advice.

[Guest guest]

oh um...just thought i'd mention CHO is an abbrev. for carbs. refers

to the molecular structure i do believe.

ok, but not trying to elbow my way in between!

rach