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Hi there...I have to say that I don't really like it either, although it

doesn't really bother me enough to ask Sue to change it. If it works,

motivationally for someone, that's good enough for me to pass it by.

But I have to agree with you that the media's concept of marketing to plus

size women just sucks. The euphamisms they employ to describe them are

stupid and meaningless, and all too often the styles produced for larger

sizes are completely inappropriate and unflattering. AND I'd like to know

when size 14 became a large size? (Never mind that American sizing has

been going up in years: today's 8 is yesterdays 10, in an attempt to

rationalize the fact that no, size 8 is NOT the average size for a woman.)

We all want to change; that's why we're here: for the diet, and the support

and the cheers. If we were all totally fine with being overweight, to

whatever extent we are, we wouldn't be on a woe to begin with: but maybe

it's important to realize that our cubic being is not our only self (even

though it's really easy to think that way on a daily basis)...maybe the tag

line should be something like, we're intelligent, we're strong, we're funny,

we're resourceful, we're attractive, and we're losing.

ok, absestos suit on here too....

Celia

>

>Well, I've seen two say they like it, that's not a lot. Personally, I have

>to admit I don't like it. I hate buying " large " or " women " size clothes,

I

>hate buying " Just My Size " pantyhose, and I really hate being told in " real

>life " that I'm " big, but beautiful " - you have " and " and that's marginally

>better, but I about choked when I first noticed it at the bottom of the

>e-mail letters. Positive motivational statements are great, but I don't

>need ANY reminders of how " big " I am... I know, I know, and I'm trying to

>DO something about it. If I thought it was " beautiful " , I'd stay that way

>and join the " fat acceptance " newsgroup. But sorry, I don't think it's

>beautiful, or healthy, so I'm changing that.

>

>When I was a senior in college I thought I was overweight - and I was, by

>about 20 or maybe 30 lbs. I had a photo taken for my yearbook, and I want

>to cry now just thinking about it. ... youth is wasted on the young, for

>sure! A few years and more than a few pounds later I was at my mothers

>house and she was showing the photos to one of my brother's friends, that I

>kind of thought was cute, and we had a rather embarrassing moment of dead

>silence when he pointed at my picture, while I was standing right there and

>asked " who is that? " - and I could have sunk into the floor. Worst part

was

>the obvious admiration he had in his voice when he asked... Now I know I'm

>never going to look like I did in 1986 again, but I see no reason not to

set

>a goal of getting down to about that weight range again.

>

>And sorry, again, and maybe some will hate my guts for saying it, but " big "

>is NOT beautiful to me. I don't want to be " big " , that's what I'm fighting

>and praying for with all the strength that I have.

>

>Again, sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings, and maybe it seems shallow and

>like focusing on " appearances " or something, but be honest, the world

treats

> " big " people harshly, and the world is mean to " big " people, and I'm tired

>of it, and tired of being alone. My " real goal " , to be honest?? It's not

>to " get healthy " - I want, plain and simple, to get to a decent weight and

>develop some kind of social life, and who knows?

>

>Ok... I'm done, I'm done... asbestos suit on...

>

>

>a.k.a. ~ Natty's mommy

>lanat@...

>

>http://www.javanet.com/~lanat/

>

>>Forget the rest We are the best. BIG AND BEAUTIFUL BUT LOSING!!!!!!

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oh , you are too funny......yep: unfortunately, what's on the outside

stops most people from finding out what's on the inside (i speak from

experience....2 years on the " used wife " lot....) I spent half of my life

overweight, and the rest of it not (and to paraphrase that famous " i've been

rich and i've been poor...and rich is better), and i have to say that the

thin part has been the part that gave me more choices.

The beauty of this program is that it does give us control over our lives in

a way a low fat low calorie thing never did. We know it's just a matter of

time till goal, and that's a liberating concept in itself.

here's to the tiaras!

Celia

RE: Big and Beautiful

>

>

>

>I been thinkin' and thinkin' about your reply - and although I

>applaud your caring, that's not at all where I'm coming from.

>

>Sure, there are a lot of negatives in my history regarding being

overweight.

>

>- My son, coming up to me tail end of last school year and hugging me, and

>sharing that some kid called his mother " fat " , but he stuck up for me...

>(and me thinking what a blessing he is...)

>

>- Shopping in Fashion Bug and Lane and realizing that even in these

>stores most of the clothes I think are pretty won't fit... and my best

>friend looking at me in absolute shock as she watches me pawing through the

>size 26/28 racks... " No, you don't want THAT size, do you?? " (Uhhh... no,

>not really....)

>

> - How about the blind date I had three months ago, where the guy showed

up,

>sat down for 5 minutes, and then suddenly " had to leave " and " would be

right

>back " ... and me on the phone with my mom crying, and hour later, asking

her

>to come pick up my son and feed him for me, since I'd kinda thought I was

>going out and had nothing planned for dinner ... (not that I ate anything

>that night anyway...)

>

>Does that kind of thing make me sad, or piss me off? Of course it does!!!

>Am I supposed to just shrug and ignore it? Am I a robot or something? Or

>Vulcan?? No, I don't think so!!

>

>It's rotten that the ideal of " beauty " drives even " normal " girls to obsess

>on their weight and looks and end up so thin you can count their ribs!

It's

>rotten, mean and nasty that people won't hire an overweight person over a

>thin person. It's not fair that guys will take one look at the " bigger "

>lady and exit stage left. But life is not about fair. If I sat around and

>cried and wouldn't do anything about it, and spent all day moaning about

the

>way things " should " be, then you could send me for therapy. But I think a

>little anger is called for. I think that properly used, a little anger can

>be quite the motivating factor! I want to lose weight to LIVE, to see my

>son grow up. But I also want to " live " , as in " live it up " a little. I

>want to be able to go out dancing and not huff and puff, like I was when

all

>the cousins went out at the family reunion in Nashville. I want to NOT

>have to " cover up " when I wear a bathing suit, unless I forgot the

>sunscreen! What's wrong with that?

>

>The way I look now is NOT good. Do I feel that I am NOT a super, terrific,

>wonderful, talented, amazing PERSON??? Noooooo! I most certainly AM!!

>LOL But the world is how the world is, and the world is missing out on a

>lot of great stuff when the person I AM is trapped in this massively

> " over-fleshy " package. So, I'm changing that.

>

>What is the point of hiding from the fact, plain and simple fact, that

>society is NOT nice to " big " people, and admitting that I, for one, am sick

>of it? Nothing wrong with that, and nothing wrong with using that as a

>motivator.

>

>Isn't appearance part and parcel of the package of reasons everyone loses

>weight? What is the point of not appreciating better looking bodies?

>Like that guy Tony? Of course I want to have an awesome " after " pic, and

>get thousands and thousands of compliments on it, and be able to say " awww,

>geee, I never could of done it without the support of my friends and

>family " , as I smile and take the trophy from Oprah on the awards show...

>

>

>... oh, wait a minute... they don't have s for weight loss, do

they??

>

>Ok... well, they SHOULD!!!! I still want one!!! LOL

>

>your mom ever ask you if you wanted a medal for doing something?? YES, I

>want one!!! LOL

>

>

>Anyway....

>

>

>

>

>a.k.a. ~ Natty's mommy

>lanat@...

>

>http://www.javanet.com/~lanat/

>

>>Forget the rest We are the best. BIG AND BEAUTIFUL BUT LOSING!!!!!!

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<< So, now I cry and write instead of eating chocolate ice cream and reese's

peanut butter cups. Just another opinion L >>

It was nice to see a part of your life. Thanks for sharing it. It is nice

to have small talk and encouragement but it is also nice to see where

everyone is coming from. I will share my story too. I would like everyone

here to feel like they know me! Teena

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<< It isnt ment to be beutiful looking in the mirror it

means big outside beutiful in but losing the outside >>

Don't worry! You keep it there! It is meant to inspire and is not the same

as calling us fellow fatties!! I am seeing that I have the problem. I have

struggled for years with this new body that I feel does not belong to me. I

hate it!! And sometimes I hate myself for allowing it to get like this. I

was 120 to 130 pounds in high school. My measurements were 36-26-36 when I

was 18. I know this because I was in dance and had to be fitted for a

costume. I wore my body with pride. I got looks. A lot of looks. I am

blonde with blue eyes and was an attractive person. But that was all I was.

My self esteem came from my looks. Then I got married, had 4 kids and lost

my looks. But I am still blonde with blue eyes! I really did not lose my

looks, I gained weight. To me though I had lost everything that I was worth.

My dh helped me so much because he loved me and thought I was sexy in spite

of my over 200 pound body and deformed stomach. But now here I am down to my

last 40 pounds and feeling the same way. I hate this body. I want my old

body that I am used to. I am not happy big and do not feel good. But that

is not right. I mean it is ok to lose weight but it is also ok to not fit

into the fashion model mold. We need to be OUR best, not someone else's best

that is just out to suck our money from us. And I know that there are some

women that would love to be in a 12/14 and that it is stupid of me to feel

this way but I just cannot help myself. Too much dependency on our culture I

guess! I hope my attitude is transformed along with my body. Teena

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<<

... oh, wait a minute... they don't have s for weight loss, do they??

Ok... well, they SHOULD!!!! I still want one!!! LOL

your mom ever ask you if you wanted a medal for doing something?? YES, I

want one!!! LOL >>

You should get an award for a wonderful *speech*!! And we all should get

awards for doing something so life changing!! We are very brave, big or not

big!! Teena :o)

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<< OH BOY! Did I go on and on. Hope this makes sense--I

tend to ramble. So, there you have it.

>>

Again, thanks for sharing about yourself! This has been a fantastic thread!

I am really loving getting to know about the people that I am putting so much

trust in!! Teena

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<< Some of us have never been 130 pounds and " beautiful " , and therefore

don't have the luxury of thinking that being over 200 pounds is not

beautiful, cause that's what we always have been. I'm sure you didn't

mean to offend anyone, >>

I sure didn't mean to offend. And I do not mean that you can not be

beautiful nor do I mean that I was not beautiful at 200+. What I mean is

that I do not feel like my old self. I feel like a stranger in my own body

and therefore do not feel beautiful like I used to. It makes me so mad that

beauty has been so defined for us that we can't see real beauty any more!

Geesh, beauty is just genes! It is not something earned! What real value is

there to it!? It is vain, deceitful and fleeting! See, the problem is mine!

I just do not feel beautiful in this body! But even when I lose weight I

will not have my old body back. I have stretch marks now, I may never get

rid of the sagging tummy that I now have! So, I need to redefine beauty in

my own mind! As I said, hopefully my mind will evolve with my body! Teena

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<<

Hi. I'm new to the list and I want to jump right in on this one. Beauty has

nothing to do with size, or anything physical for that matter. Period. Some

people are not at a place where they have been able to really understand

that...and thats ok. It is just a lesson that has to be eventually learned

from experience and living. Some people never learn it. Those of us who have

been able to fully understand that though, are the lucky ones :) IMHO.

Because when you are still caught in society's way of seeing things, and

trying to live up to that in an attempt to find happiness, you will never

find it. >>

See, this is it!! I knew it was just me! I am still striving to be

beautiful and me being beautiful is not at 200 pounds. It is me being 130!

I would never think of being so restrictive with others though. I can see

past size when it comes to others. I do not care what size a woman or man is

if I see something beautiful about them. It is me that I cannot see as

beautiful at just any size. I must be a size 8/10 to feel beautiful. Do you

all understand? I am not looking at others sizes! I am too busy looking at

my own!! Is there a therapist in the house!!??? LOL!! Teena (realizing

now how messed up I am!)

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Beautiful? Look beyond the mirror. Look within your self. Total compliance

with this WOL should make you feel wonderful and many have seen the changes in

their personality due to abstinence. Let go of the anger and self hate, write

your feeling down and then tear it up...get it out of your system or vent it on

the list. It is constructive to vent your feelings.....and doing it here is why

I love this list.

, Jax. Florida

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Nat, that is exactly the way I feel. I work at home doing computer work for

people--today I had to go meet with them. My jeans were tight--they had been

tighter-and I didn't feel good about how I look. So what did I do (the

meeting was to negotiate a higher wage) but tell them I was fine with my

current wage. Now why did I do that? Because I felt crummy about myself.

If I don't lose weight so I can fit into my clothes (I refuse to buy bigger

clothes) I'll go broke!!

Thats the wonderful thing about this diet--it gives me hope for a better

future--and not only that it brought me into contact with a wonderful group

of people that I wouldn't have met otherwise. So in that respect I've been

incredibly blessed by my weight problem.

I just want to take this opportunity to thank all of you " old-timers " to this

group for sticking with us newbies--we ask the same questions over and over

again and you just keep answering them over and over again and I love you for

it.

Whoops, getting too mushy--must be time for a break...

Bev in Selah

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You'll get to your goal Chris: it's a plan that's easy to follow. I don't

think anyone would dispute the fact that our beauty inside exists

independently from our beauty outside. But at the same time, the beauty

outside is easier to access. You are so lucky to have a supportive husband:

sometimes I think they are the exception rather than the rule, but my SO is

the same, and I consider myself really lucky.

Hang in there: come here for support: keep the pork rinds and the boiled

eggs coming. You'll do it!

Celia

I can only speak for myself and I don't think that is

>the case. It is the main reason why I want to lose weight. Not for my

>health... gosh, I don't really care so much about that... I want to be able

>to do things with my husband that I can't now without having that little

>self-esteem that I do have go down the drain too.

>My husband loves me... no matter what. Gosh, he married me when I was 271!

> But that has nothing to do with it. I know I have a beautiful face... and

>I think most " big " people do. We don't look old as fast either.

>However... I want to fit into a booth without having to suck in my stomach

>when we go out for dinner. I want to go skiing with him and not look like

>an avalanche is coming down. I want to do so many things, most of all I

>want to " fit " in. I know it sounds off, but its the truth... I have no

>family other than my husband. I'm always alone. The people I was around

>all the time are skinny and very inconsiderate in my eyes when it came to

>things to do together... they don't realize that I don't want to go to the

>beach in a swimsuit... it usually ruined everything. Sad but true.

>

>I know some of you don't agree with it... that is normal... *s*... its just

>my opinion. Besides I have other issues... like having an alcoholic

>mother... that helped screwing me up big time... I bought chocolate because

>they gave me temporary comfort... sad, but true.

>

>Anyway... today is my first day of starting a new way of life. I can't

>tell you how many times I winced because I wanted to eat something

> " forbidden " ... but I'm hanging in there.

>

>I did however have about 6 Tbs of whipped cream (the one in the can) and

>that satisfied my cravings for 6 carbs... its worth it because my brain

>left me alone! *laughing*

>

>Back to the subject... I think it depends how big you are talking about

>when you say beautiful... I don't consider myself that...

>

>Thanks everyone!

>

>Chris

>

>10-4-99 276.5

>Goal 160

>

>>Big and Beutiful is a state of mind, Never let anyone tell you different.

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>Hi there...I have to say that I don't really like it either, although it

>doesn't really bother me enough to ask Sue to change it. If it works,

>motivationally for someone, that's good enough for me to pass it by.

It doesn't really bother me on the messages, but if someone on the

street said that to me, I'd POUND them.

Nat Baker

Bakers' Little Ranch

Home Page http://discover-net.net/~nbaker

Farm for Sale http://discover-net.net/~nbaker/farm.html

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In a message dated 10/6/99 8:13:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

raincrystal@... writes:

<< Hi. I'm new to the list and I want to jump right in on this one. >>

Hello and welcome to the list Crystal!!!

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Some of us have never been 130 pounds and " beautiful " , and therefore

don't have the luxury of thinking that being over 200 pounds is not

beautiful, cause that's what we always have been. I'm sure you didn't

mean to offend anyone, but how what you said occurs for me is like all

those people who said I had a pretty face if only I could lose weight I

could be pretty; or those people who have a big butt pointing at others

and saying " they're soooo fat! " or laughing at very obese people. I'm

well aware that when people meet me, they are just being with my weight-

I have learned to be charming and larger than life in order to distract

them, but it's still a sad thing that I have to do that. I have to think

I am beautiful, or try to convince myself of that, otherwise there is no

hope for me at all.

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> I spent half of my life

>overweight, and the rest of it not (and to paraphrase that famous " i've been

>rich and i've been poor...and rich is better), and i have to say that the

>thin part has been the part that gave me more choices.

>

>The beauty of this program is that it does give us control over our lives in

>a way a low fat low calorie thing never did. We know it's just a matter of

>time till goal, and that's a liberating concept in itself.

>

>here's to the tiaras!

>Celia

That is for sure! Looking good gives you many many more choices.

When I was looking good, the speaker in seminars would always pick on

me & flirt. When I wasn't, nobody pays attention. Even in auto

supply stores, I feel like I'm invisible.

My personality is completely different, too. I can give speeches or

be the life of the party when I feel good about the way I look. Now,

I don't even want to my kindergartener's school things. That's the

main reason I started this WOE; it was breaking my heart making

excuses.

Nat Baker

Bakers' Little Ranch

Home Page http://discover-net.net/~nbaker

Farm for Sale http://discover-net.net/~nbaker/farm.html

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Thanks Teena

I thought about it alot after I sent it--it was a really great exercise for

me to get in touch with some old memories that needed to be healed.

Bev in Selah

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Hi. I'm new to the list and I want to jump right in on this one. Beauty has

nothing to do with size, or anything physical for that matter. Period. Some

people are not at a place where they have been able to really understand

that...and thats ok. It is just a lesson that has to be eventually learned from

experience and living. Some people never learn it. Those of us who have been

able to fully understand that though, are the lucky ones :) IMHO. Because when

you are still caught in society's way of seeing things, and trying to live up to

that in an attempt to find happiness, you will never find it.

Re: Big and Beautiful

Some of us have never been 130 pounds and " beautiful " , and therefore don't

have the luxury of thinking that being over 200 pounds is not beautiful, cause

that's what we always have been. I'm sure you didn't mean to offend anyone, but

how what you said occurs for me is like all those people who said I had a pretty

face if only I could lose weight I could be pretty; or those people who have a

big butt pointing at others and saying " they're soooo fat! " or laughing at very

obese people. I'm well aware that when people meet me, they are just being with

my weight- I have learned to be charming and larger than life in order to

distract them, but it's still a sad thing that I have to do that. I have to

think I am beautiful, or try to convince myself of that, otherwise there is no

hope for me at all.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Big and Beutiful is a state of mind, Never let anyone tell you different.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Click Here

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Same her I would love to fit into a 18/20 after

being a 3x to 4x for over 10 yrs and now i am a 2x

with more cofidence about me then ever before but

because of the complaints I reworded the phrase I

dotn want any one being offended

--- TLLOVESHIM@... wrote:

> In a message dated 10/06/1999 3:28:04 PM EST,

> suebirney@... writes:

>

> << It isnt ment to be beutiful looking in the mirror

> it

> means big outside beutiful in but losing the

> outside >>

>

> Don't worry! You keep it there! It is meant to

> inspire and is not the same

> as calling us fellow fatties!! I am seeing that I

> have the problem. I have

> struggled for years with this new body that I feel

> does not belong to me. I

> hate it!! And sometimes I hate myself for allowing

> it to get like this. I

> was 120 to 130 pounds in high school. My

> measurements were 36-26-36 when I

> was 18. I know this because I was in dance and had

> to be fitted for a

> costume. I wore my body with pride. I got looks.

> A lot of looks. I am

> blonde with blue eyes and was an attractive person.

> But that was all I was.

> My self esteem came from my looks. Then I got

> married, had 4 kids and lost

> my looks. But I am still blonde with blue eyes! I

> really did not lose my

> looks, I gained weight. To me though I had lost

> everything that I was worth.

> My dh helped me so much because he loved me and

> thought I was sexy in spite

> of my over 200 pound body and deformed stomach. But

> now here I am down to my

> last 40 pounds and feeling the same way. I hate this

> body. I want my old

> body that I am used to. I am not happy big and do

> not feel good. But that

> is not right. I mean it is ok to lose weight but it

> is also ok to not fit

> into the fashion model mold. We need to be OUR

> best, not someone else's best

> that is just out to suck our money from us. And I

> know that there are some

> women that would love to be in a 12/14 and that it

> is stupid of me to feel

> this way but I just cannot help myself. Too much

> dependency on our culture I

> guess! I hope my attitude is transformed along with

> my body. Teena

>

>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Big and Beutiful is a state of mind, Never let

> anyone tell you different.

>

>

=====

:) Sue List Manager 310/260.5/180

Goal for Challenge 2 250

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Well I'm new to the list and I guess I'm going to add my few cents (not

sure how much its worth) in it.

Big and Beautiful... I can only speak for myself and I don't think that is

the case. It is the main reason why I want to lose weight. Not for my

health... gosh, I don't really care so much about that... I want to be able

to do things with my husband that I can't now without having that little

self-esteem that I do have go down the drain too.

My husband loves me... no matter what. Gosh, he married me when I was 271!

But that has nothing to do with it. I know I have a beautiful face... and

I think most " big " people do. We don't look old as fast either.

However... I want to fit into a booth without having to suck in my stomach

when we go out for dinner. I want to go skiing with him and not look like

an avalanche is coming down. I want to do so many things, most of all I

want to " fit " in. I know it sounds off, but its the truth... I have no

family other than my husband. I'm always alone. The people I was around

all the time are skinny and very inconsiderate in my eyes when it came to

things to do together... they don't realize that I don't want to go to the

beach in a swimsuit... it usually ruined everything. Sad but true.

I know some of you don't agree with it... that is normal... *s*... its just

my opinion. Besides I have other issues... like having an alcoholic

mother... that helped screwing me up big time... I bought chocolate because

they gave me temporary comfort... sad, but true.

Anyway... today is my first day of starting a new way of life. I can't

tell you how many times I winced because I wanted to eat something

" forbidden " ... but I'm hanging in there.

I did however have about 6 Tbs of whipped cream (the one in the can) and

that satisfied my cravings for 6 carbs... its worth it because my brain

left me alone! *laughing*

Back to the subject... I think it depends how big you are talking about

when you say beautiful... I don't consider myself that...

Thanks everyone!

Chris

10-4-99 276.5

Goal 160

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Welcome Chris!

I do the same thing with the reddi-whip! haha

Cathy

262/255/150

wrote:

>

>

> Well I'm new to the list and I guess I'm going to add my few cents (not

> sure how much its worth) in it.

>

> Big and Beautiful... I can only speak for myself and I don't think that is

> the case. It is the main reason why I want to lose weight. Not for my

> health... gosh, I don't really care so much about that... I want to be able

> to do things with my husband that I can't now without having that little

> self-esteem that I do have go down the drain too.

> My husband loves me... no matter what. Gosh, he married me when I was 271!

> But that has nothing to do with it. I know I have a beautiful face... and

> I think most " big " people do. We don't look old as fast either.

> However... I want to fit into a booth without having to suck in my stomach

> when we go out for dinner. I want to go skiing with him and not look like

> an avalanche is coming down. I want to do so many things, most of all I

> want to " fit " in. I know it sounds off, but its the truth... I have no

> family other than my husband. I'm always alone. The people I was around

> all the time are skinny and very inconsiderate in my eyes when it came to

> things to do together... they don't realize that I don't want to go to the

> beach in a swimsuit... it usually ruined everything. Sad but true.

>

> I know some of you don't agree with it... that is normal... *s*... its just

> my opinion. Besides I have other issues... like having an alcoholic

> mother... that helped screwing me up big time... I bought chocolate because

> they gave me temporary comfort... sad, but true.

>

> Anyway... today is my first day of starting a new way of life. I can't

> tell you how many times I winced because I wanted to eat something

> " forbidden " ... but I'm hanging in there.

>

> I did however have about 6 Tbs of whipped cream (the one in the can) and

> that satisfied my cravings for 6 carbs... its worth it because my brain

> left me alone! *laughing*

>

> Back to the subject... I think it depends how big you are talking about

> when you say beautiful... I don't consider myself that...

>

> Thanks everyone!

>

> Chris

>

> 10-4-99 276.5

> Goal 160

>

> > Big and Beutiful is a state of mind, Never let anyone tell you different.

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Well, I say Good for you for starting this woe. I am just finishing

up my first month, (will be on Friday). I started at 292.5 (Oh, my gosh) and

am now at 274 this morning. This diet really is not too bad but I do miss my

sweets. I am definatly a carb addict. I am big and in my hubby's eyes

beautiful. Although he does like the idea of me getting back to my pre big

stage. He has always been super supportive of me, even in my big stages,

never complained about it. So, God bless and best wishes.

Robin

292.4/274/150 9-10-99

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