Re: Confused about Dosing

January 20, 2005

In a message dated 1/20/2005 10:40:39 AM Eastern Standard Time,

katkelly966@... writes:

> . Not sure what I should do

> but experiment. A member from another group said when she dosed twice

> a day she was up at night.

yes, I think it takes a little experimentation. We're all so individual.

for the lady who was up all night, I bet she took the 2nd dose around dinner

time. Take the second dose by 2:00 and the T3 from that dose should be out of

your system by bedtime.

Cindi

January 20, 2005

In a message dated 1/20/2005 11:47:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, usns@...

writes:

> The gal that dosed twice a day and says she was up at night--makes

> me wonder if she is overproducing cortisol at night. i.e. it's not

> the Armour

let me second that one too. I had elevated cortisol at the PM saliva

test...and YES, it keeps you up at night no matter how tired you are. Mine

evidently

has gone back down as my body got thyroid hormone because now I can go to

sleep within 10 minutes usually.

cindi

January 20, 2005

In a message dated 1/20/2005 12:32:12 PM Eastern Standard Time,

katkelly966@... writes:

> Now I'm going to try and find a source on the time limit of T3

> viability

it peaks in about 2 hours...and then is out of your system within 6-8

hours...that's what I've read several places...so you should be able to find

that

info.

cindi

January 20, 2005

In a message dated 1/20/2005 12:35:26 PM Eastern Standard Time,

saltillo@... writes:

> . I found that when my dose was 2 grains a day taken twice a day,

> that I would quickly run down hours before my next dose. Afternoons

> were a misery. I don't have a problem with this much at all anymore

> now that I take almost 4 grains 3 times a day.

>

so what is your total for the day? I couldn't figure from this is you were

taking 4 grains or 12 grains.

cindi

January 20, 2005

In a message dated 1/20/2005 1:12:08 PM Eastern Standard Time,

katkelly966@... writes:

> This might sound strange, but I feel a

> little " rush " in my face.

>

kat..you've just recently started Armour? if so...that rush in your face is

probably the circulation returning to normal...several people have reported a

bright red face for a while after they started Armour. it was really amazing

to me to get COLOR IN MY FACE after 20 years of being pale face.

Cindi

January 20, 2005

In a message dated 1/20/2005 1:37:34 PM Eastern Standard Time,

klb58@... writes:

> Today I decided I would split the dose like I have been but, swallow it

> instead. Will see what happens

had you switched to sublingual?

cindi

January 20, 2005

In a message dated 1/20/2005 1:41:39 PM Eastern Standard Time,

saltillo@... writes:

> I

> found that if I didn't have enough at night, my muscles just

> tightened up and got so sore at about 3:30 to 4:30 in the morning

> and I'd just roll around miserable and uncomfortable only half

ok..thanks....i was getting ready to be alarmed at 12 grains.

I know what you mean about a nighttime dose. I also need 1/2 grain at night

or I have sore legs..and also it seems as if I'm even slower to start in the

morning.

cindi

January 20, 2005

In a message dated 1/20/2005 3:06:59 PM Eastern Standard Time,

martian.303@... writes:

> Just since I added this extra half grain, and moved it up, I've been waking

> up with very sore muscles in my legs. They stay sore all day long. The one

> leg is worse than the other.

> I haven't done anything to cause them to be sore.

> Does anyone have an ideas on this?

>

I think we have some weird things as our bodies adjust to having needed

thyroid hormone. Extremely sore muscles in my legs started for me after I'd

been

on thyroid hormone for a while...but mine was at night. I'm gonna guess that

you're running low by the time you wake up and this is causing this symptom. I

got rid of mine by adding 1/2 grain later on at night. It could be you need

more in the morning for now...and not splitting your dose yet.

My own experience was I needed to get enough in the morning to really get

going and get rid of daytime hypo symptoms before I added some in at

afternoon...and then later, at night.

This is why it's so hard to tell folks how to do it sometimes..we're all

individual. so although we tell folks to split their dose...some people need to

first get their dose high enough for morning/day time.

all you can do is experiment. If you're taking one grain in the morning and

1/2 grain later...you might want to add that 1/2 grain in the morning and see

if that eliminates the sore legs. If so, and if there are no other daytime

hypo symptoms, you might have the right dose for the morning.

Cindi

January 20, 2005

Kat, you may not have a conversion problem. It's more likely that

you are not on enough Armour, or you have other issues that are

causing the crashing. Is the current amount of Armour you are on

also making your free T3 labs to be at the top of the range, if not

over?

Take me---I'm on enough Armour (3 1/4 grains, in my case) AND have a

great Ferritin, but suddenly I am crashing hard at night due to

other issues related to my peri-meno--it's either my low

progesterone, my adrenals, or my my low testosterone...or the loop

between them all, I am guessing.

The gal that dosed twice a day and says she was up at night--makes

me wonder if she is overproducing cortisol at night. i.e. it's not

the Armour. But also, taking her second dose no latter than the

early-to-mid afternoon would help, as Cindi has replied.

Janie

>

> I thought I understood the " science " behind dosing, but after

hearing

> the replies to " uninformed pharmacist " both here and another group,

> I'm more confused than ever. I suppose it's an individual chemistry

> thing. I'm wondering if the dosing would depend on the individual's

> ability to convert T4 to T3? I don't think my conversion is all

that

> much. At 88mcg of Synthroid I had full blown hypo symptoms (feel

like

> I've been hit by a truck and left on the side of the road). That

makes

> me think my T4 conversion is very low. I'm concerned if I take the

> whole dose in the morning that the T3 will not last until the next

> dose since its half-life is so very short. Not sure what I should

do

> but experiment. A member from another group said when she dosed

twice

> a day she was up at night. Not that I want to be up ALL night, but

it

> would be nice if I could make it past 6pm!!! Just wondering if my

need

> to crash after dinner (it's very rare for me to still be awake at

8pm)

> is an indicator that there's zero T3 in my system by the end of the

> day. I'd say by 3pm I've bottomed out for the day. Trying to

listen to

> my body, which is hard when it flys in the face of knowldge and

> experience. I start my Armour this morning...guess I'll follow the

> flock and take the whole dose on an empty stomach and see what

happens!!!

> Thanks for all the imput, Kat

January 20, 2005

phosphatedyl serine corrects that

Lynda aka Lloyd

Re: Re: Confused about Dosing

let me second that one too. I had elevated cortisol at the PM saliva

test...and YES, it keeps you up at night no matter how tired you are. Mine

evidently

has gone back down as my body got thyroid hormone because now I can go to

sleep within 10 minutes usually.

cindi

January 20, 2005

> time. Take the second dose by 2:00 and the T3 from that dose should

be out of

> your system by bedtime.

> Cindi

OOPS...I already took the whole thing! I wanted to take it before

breakfast as recomended by someone in one of the two groups. It's how

I took my Synthroid, so I figured it would be best for phase one of

the expirement. If I run out of gas at my usual time, tomorrow I will

split it and see how far I go. I'll just have to take this one day at

a time until things work. I know it will be a few weeks before I start

to feel normal...whatever that is because it's been so long I've

forgotten ) I see there is no pat answer for we are all so

chemically different. But if I need to split my dose afterall, I will

try your recomendation of taking it earlier in the day than at dinner

time. Now I'm going to try and find a source on the time limit of T3

viability. I studied endocrinology for two solid weeks, but my

considerable brain fog has made it difficult to remember every detail.

Thanks Cindi, Kat

January 20, 2005

In a message dated 1/20/2005 5:24:17 PM Eastern Standard Time,

martian.303@... writes:

> . I'm guessing I need that 1/2 grain that I've been taking at night - still

> to be at night.

>

yep...sounds like you might.

i first added my afternoon dose because of an afternoon crashing thing..and

then much later, the 1/2 at night.

so it really is so individual at times.

are you doing okay with other hypo symptoms during the day? and no afternoon

crash?

cindi

January 20, 2005

This is my experience. I found that when I had adrenal problems,

taking thyroid every two hours worked best for me. Research has

found that people actually need a little more thyroid at night. This

is when the body does maintainance and it is thought that this is

why the thyroid puts out more then. Since then, I have been able to

switch to where I take my meds 3 times a day, every 8 hours, and I

take a little extra at night and this has actually helped me sleep a

bit better, as I found that taking less makes me wake up early with

tight muscles and misery. So, I take my thyroid when I get up and

around 1:00 and then just before bed and I have no problem staying

awake. But, I think everyone is different on this.

The healthy thyroid puts out tiny amounts of thyroid all day, so,

taking your medication as closely to how the normal thyroid works is

better and keeps T3 more even in the blood all day. Ray Peat has

suggested that people nibble on a T3 tablet all day to keep their

energy up well. It is also easier on the adrenals to break up doses.

I am guessing that since you are noticing that you are dropping in

energy long before your next dose, that your dose is still a little

low. I found that when my dose was 2 grains a day taken twice a day,

that I would quickly run down hours before my next dose. Afternoons

were a misery. I don't have a problem with this much at all anymore

now that I take almost 4 grains 3 times a day.

Tish

January 20, 2005

> The healthy thyroid puts out tiny amounts of thyroid all day, so,

> taking your medication as closely to how the normal thyroid works is

> better and keeps T3 more even in the blood all day. Ray Peat has

> suggested that people nibble on a T3 tablet all day to keep their

> energy up well. It is also easier on the adrenals to break up doses.

>

> I am guessing that since you are noticing that you are dropping in

> energy long before your next dose, that your dose is still a little

> low. I found that when my dose was 2 grains a day taken twice a day,

> that I would quickly run down hours before my next dose. Afternoons

> were a misery. I don't have a problem with this much at all anymore

> now that I take almost 4 grains 3 times a day.

>

> Tish

Hi Tish, Thanks for all that info. This is how I was imagining things

worked. I don't know if I have adrenal problems or not at this point.

I asked for an Adrenal Stress Profile at the docs yesterday but it's

another test they don't do at that lab. I don't really have the

resources to get the tests I want done elsewhere. Sighh. It always

seems to be a money thing. I'm just going to see how this day goes and

evaluate as I go along. The more I read the more I get conflicting

answers so it's obvious there's no set pattern...which would make it

so much easier if there was!!! Taking split doses appear to be the

common sense way to go according to natural thyroid function. I wish I

would've waited to take mine this morning until I got all these

replies! It's only been a little while since I took it, and I already

feel a little better than when I first got up. Usually it takes half

the day for me to come to life. This might sound strange, but I feel a

little " rush " in my face.

I'll be keeping notes on all this...thanks again! Kat

January 20, 2005

Sorry, I didn't say that right. I am taking a total of almost 4

grains. I take 1-1/4 in the morning when I get up, 1 grain at about

1:30 and 1-1/2 at bedtime. I'd probably do it a bit more even in the

day, but I have 2 grain tablets and it's hard to divide them well. I

found that if I didn't have enough at night, my muscles just

tightened up and got so sore at about 3:30 to 4:30 in the morning

and I'd just roll around miserable and uncomfortable only half

asleep untill time to get up. When I was on 2 grains a day, I would

be miserable over half the night.

Tish

January 20, 2005

> > This might sound strange, but I feel a

> > little " rush " in my face.

___________________

I really like that rush. I get it at bedtime when I take my last

dose and it feels very good and I warm up and my heart speeds up a

little and it's nice.

Tish

January 20, 2005

to me, multi dosing makes sense. Especially with T3 not being long acting. If

our bodies aren't converting - we need it over a period of time, not just one

big dump of it.

Cris

Confused about Dosing

I thought I understood the " science " behind dosing, but after hearing

the replies to " uninformed pharmacist " both here and another group,

I'm more confused than ever. I suppose it's an individual chemistry

thing. I'm wondering if the dosing would depend on the individual's

ability to convert T4 to T3? I don't think my conversion is all that

much. At 88mcg of Synthroid I had full blown hypo symptoms (feel like

I've been hit by a truck and left on the side of the road). That makes

me think my T4 conversion is very low. I'm concerned if I take the

whole dose in the morning that the T3 will not last until the next

dose since its half-life is so very short. Not sure what I should do

but experiment. A member from another group said when she dosed twice

a day she was up at night. Not that I want to be up ALL night, but it

would be nice if I could make it past 6pm!!! Just wondering if my need

to crash after dinner (it's very rare for me to still be awake at 8pm)

is an indicator that there's zero T3 in my system by the end of the

day. I'd say by 3pm I've bottomed out for the day. Trying to listen to

my body, which is hard when it flys in the face of knowldge and

experience. I start my Armour this morning...guess I'll follow the

flock and take the whole dose on an empty stomach and see what happens!!!

Thanks for all the imput, Kat

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

January 20, 2005

I'm wondering -

I added my 1/2 grain, so I am taking 1 grain when I wake up, and I moved my dose

up from bedtime to 2:00 in the afternoon. ( I can't seem to remember to take it

at 1:00).

Just since I added this extra half grain, and moved it up, I've been waking up

with very sore muscles in my legs. They stay sore all day long. The one leg is

worse than the other.

I haven't done anything to cause them to be sore.

Does anyone have an ideas on this?