Re: Re: symptoms of viral infection ?/'immune effects'

[Guest guest]

Are you suggesting that people with mercury-toxic children and mercury-toxic

adults start trying Paxil? I would like to see specific documentation where the

Paxil product manufacturer clinically proves it resolves immune issues and not

some abstract about how immune issues systematically create major depression

which is then masked by the use of antidepressants like Paxil.

Paxil, an SSRI, is an extremely dangerous drug with little or no safety track

record. Behind every allopath there's a drug company agent wanting to know what

happened with how much. After enough dead children pile up, then what? New and

improved Paxil?

Children- Paroxetine has not be shown to be safe and effective in children or

adolescents, 18 years of age or younger. Children may be especially sensitive to

the effects of paroxetine for the treatment of depression. This may increase the

chance of a child planning to commit suicide or attempting to commit suicide.

http://www.drugs.com/xq/cfm/pageID_0/htm_202717/type_cons/bn_Paxil/micr_medex/qx\

/index.htm

If a child can't get hooked on Paxil why do they tell you not to stop taking it?

[ ] Re: symptoms of viral infection ?/'immune effects'

Prog Neuropsychopharmacol Biol Psychiatry. 2001 May;25(4):767-80.

**The immune system, depression and the action of antidepressants.**

Leonard BE.

Pharmacology Department, National University of Ireland, Galway.

belucg@...

It is well established that the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis

(HPA) is activated by both external and internal stressors which

result in the hypersecretion of adrenal glucocorticoids.

In major depression the prolonged elevation of the glucocorticoid

concentration leads to a desensitisation of the central

glucocorticoid receptors and probably those receptors located on

macrophages. These changes may account for the observation that many

aspects of cellular immunity are activated in depression (for

example, the increased release of pro-inflammatory cytokines from

activated macrophages in the periphery and brain, and the increased

release of acute phase proteins from the liver) even though other

aspects of immunity (for example, natural killer cell activity and T-

cell replication) are depressed.

It is also known that some of the pro-inflammatory cytokines are

potent activators of the HPA axis. Evidence is provided that the

consequences of the hypersecretion of glucocorticoids and pro-

inflammatory cytokines result in the malfunctioning of noradrenergic

and serotonergic neurotransmission in the brain, changes which are

reflected in the major symptoms of depression. Support for this view

is provided by observations of the effects of some of these

cytokines in non-depressed individuals being treated with pro-

inflammatory and related cytokines for cancer.

This has led to the hypothesis that depression is a form of sickness

behaviour which forms the basis of the macrophage theory of

depression. The review concludes with a discussion of the role of

antidepressants in attenuating the adverse effects of

glucocorticoids and pro-inflammatory cytokines on central

neurotransmission.

=> Although the precise mechanisms whereby antidepressants these

changes is uncertain, there is evidence that they reduce the release

of pro-inflammatory cytokines from activated macrophages and thereby

facilitate the feedback inhibition of the HPA axis; this results in

a reduction in the release of glucocorticoids from the adrenal

glands.

==>> In addition, many antidepressants have been shown to increase

the release of endogenous cytokine antagonists such as interleukin-1

receptor antagonist and interleukin-10. Evidence is also presented

to show that different classes of antidepressants act as

cyclooxygenase inhibitors which, by lowering the concentration of

inflammatory prostaglandins in the brain, reduce the detrimental

impact of the inflammatory changes on neurotransmitter function.

An advantage of the macrophage hypothesis is that it extends the

biogenic amine hypothesis of depression to take account of changes

in the endocrine and immune systems which also play a crucial role

in the aetiology of depression. In addition, the macrophage

hypothesis may broaden the basis of understanding the mechanism of

action of antidepressants.

Publication Types:

Review

Review, Tutorial

PMID: 11383977 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=11383977 & dopt=Abstract

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[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/22/2004 3:02:50 AM Central Standard Time,

robertbloch@... writes:

<<What exactly is your understanding of the term " immune effects " , can you

explain it in your own terms? >>

As I stated in my previous e-mail which included some links to some possible

beneficial immune benefits, this was just one of the many reasons my son is

taking Paxil. When I wrote " immune effects " as one of the reasons, it was not

my intention to make a big push for everyone to put their kids on SSRIs for

immune benefits. These studies are still very premature to draw such a

conclusion, as are those that might point to an increased suicide risk.

Further, I

believe posted the article as info to be helpful and provide what she

knew about the beginnings of scientists finding a possible link between SSRI

immune system connection, not as a means of pushing it on anyone. If you wish

to

continue this discussion, it would probably be best to lighten your tone a bit

and perhaps respectfully offer some links people should consider that point

to potential negative effects.

To explain what I meant by " immune effects " -- My son has a dysregulated

immune system -- hyper-reactive to many things, under-reactive to others.

Stress

can make this much worse. His anxiety level was not helping his efforts to

heal or to progress to his full capability. He has never been a depressed

person but did have many of the symptoms of serotonin imbalance (difficulty with

weight regulation, sensory problems, high anxiety, motor regulation problems,

etc.) While we worked for years to heal things naturally, and he saw many many

benefits from this work and progressed very well, he was not cured or totally

healed.

<< In light of the lack of indications and stern warnings against using Paxil

in children why are you sure that your doctor isn't first experimenting with

Paxil on your disabled child before he uses it with confidence on his normal

ones? After all, it's normal allopathic practice to use what they describe as

mentally ill and terminally ill as human guinea pigs>>

No doctor ever " experiments " on my child. Like many people on this list, I

always thoroughly research everything before I give it to my child and make the

decision myself. I am very careful about what I give to him because I've

seen many bad effects of " autism cure " fads that people jump on too quickly --

many of these considered " natural remedies " .

This particular doctor has been using SSRIs for many many years with

children. Probably started shortly after they came out. He and I have

discussed the

possible negative effects, along with the possibility of increased suicide

risk, and are fully aware of both sides. I will continue to keep up on that

debate as well as more evidence comes out.

Gaylen

[Guest guest]

the subject of " immune effects " in re: SSRI usage that

came up on this list.

Sorry, but your answer fails to convince me that you aren't at least remotely

advocating Paxil before the entire audience here in a teeny tiny way, and your

response failed to address very valid concerns that Paxil is a highly dangerous

drug with no indications whatsoever that it should be used in children despite

what doctors may say to coax people to believe them.

The term antidepressant as used in the abstract you cite can't be expected to

spread like peanut butter.

What exactly is your understanding of the term " immune effects " , can you

explain it in your own terms?

I have no understanding of " immune effects " other than the fact that Paxil is

a virtually unknown chemical compound, and because of that, it is, indeed, very

likely to effect the immune system and all the other systems in the human body -

potentially in an overt way, an adverse way and at worst a lethal way over a

medium to long term.

In light of the lack of indications and stern warnings against using Paxil in

children why are you sure that your doctor isn't first experimenting with Paxil

on your disabled child before he uses it with confidence on his normal ones?

After all, it's normal allopathic practice to use what they describe as mentally

ill and terminally ill as human guinea pigs.

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[Guest guest]

My point in butting in wasn't to chastise, but rather to point out that the use

of Paxil in any child is NOT indicated and in fact there are STRONG warnings

against using it on children at every drug knowledge dot com I visited. Again,

behind every allopath is a drug company agent wanting to know what happened at

what dose. The reason is they simply have no idea what will happen before you

feed their drug to your child. I will also restate that children using Paxil are

in fact involved in " off label " research of a relatively unknown drug. Most of

the studies I've seen are typically from the same people that pay people to tell

us that there is no connection between thimerosal and autism. So why should you

believe them?

If you are using Paxil on your child you should be alert to fact that Canada has

issued a warning:

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hpfb-dgpsa/tpd-dpt/paxil_e.pdf

[ ] Re: symptoms of viral infection ?/'immune effects'

Dear Bob:

I am sorry that you are so upset with my post. I was actually

following a thread on stomach issues (and thanks to poster CJ from

GA with the Dr Cheney link) when the comment arose about " immune

effects " . This topic had just come up on a list to which I belong

for those with CFIDS/ME (which I've had since the 80s) and the

article was fresh in my mind. If you'd like to discuss this matter

further you may contact me off-list and I'll give you my cell.

Sincerely,

_____________________________

>Sorry, but your answer fails to convince me

>What exactly is your understanding of the term " immune effects "

>can you explain it in your own terms?

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