Re: Update on headaches, etc.... - Lana

[Guest guest]

Today I had my first manipulation with the chiropractor. He first

showed me my xrays. I have a pretty bad neck, I think he said at C5

and C6...It is close to becoming fused in that area. He believes he

can keep it from doing that; however, he can't put me in the normal

range, as it's too degenerated. My doctor had told me several years

ago, that I had cervical disk degeneration. Also, in the lower

spine, there is a place that is right next to the stage my neck is

in. He will better be able to help that area. He also said I have

one hip about an inch higher than the other, and that it's also

rotated forward to quite an extent. He feels he'll be able to

correct that. BUT, he told me it will take some time, and quite a

few treatments, and would like to see me be able to be on a

maintenance program, even after he has those two areas as good as he

can get them. That would mean once a week to see if I need

manipulation. For now, and probably a couple months, it will be

three times a week, and then for several weeks after that, twice a

week. He did do a mild manipulation of my neck and back today, but

I don't really feel a lot better yet. He did say there is a LOT of

inflammation in both places.

If anyone on the list has had a history with chiropractors, I would

be interest in what you have to say about it.

-------

(1) I/we have had EXTENSIVE experience with Chiropractors (and

Osteopaths) over the last 35 plus years.

(2) If there are any Chiropractors, relatives of Chiropractors or

friends of Chiropractors on the list, I will apologize in advance if

what I am about to say offends them, but I have to call it like I

see it from experience.

(3) The treatment schedule he outlined for you is typical of, if not

all, almost all Chiropractors. I think one of the courses they take

in school must be called Maximizing Patient Revenue. I have met

exactly ONE Chiropractor in the last 35 years who did not follow the

aggressive treatment schedule outlined above, and that was not as a

patient. That one happened to be one of my instructors in Massage

school, and she was totally atypical in that she tried to avoid

spinal manipulation at all if she could get the job done using less

aggressive techniques. Correction - make that two. I met another

one in a class last weekend.

By contrast, every Osteopath I have ever seen (and I have seen

several over the years), followed an approach of " let's see how few

treatments are required to get the job done. If you need more, fine,

but let's not over do it. "

(4) As info, I not only personally have the HEDS variety of EDS, I

also have degenerative disk disease in both the cervical and lumbar

spine, especially the lumbar area. I think mine has been caused by a

combination of three things over the years: EDS, Osteoarthritis, and

several relatively severe traumas from things like car accidents and

stupid screw-ups moving furniture. Up until the last couple of

years, I averaged one good, on my ass, on my back, gimp and hobble,

episode every 12-18 months for around 30 straight years. But

whatever caused the particular incident at the time, the treatment

schedule was the same - and that means the same as yours. I have

even had two Chiros over the years get snippy with me for not

following their once a month " maintenance " programs. For what it is

worth, the only time I have ever had a medical insurance claim

challenged was one time when I was seeing a Chiro as the result of

an autombile accident. After a prolonged series of treatments, I

was informed by the insurance company that it was starting to border

on milking the system. I was not being accused of it - they were

accusing my Chiro. The last time I personally went to a Chiro was

July 2003 - when he broke my ribs.

(5) Regarding your specific situation, you said you have

degeneration bordering on fusion at C5-C6, the same in the low back,

heavy inflammation in both areas, and one hip that is an inch higher

than the other and rotated forward. Did I miss anything?

Several questions come immediately to mind. The first involves your

disk degeneration. Do you have an erosion of the disk capsule? A

thinning of it? Is it relatively uniform on all sides or is it

predominately on one side such that it bulges on the other? Are any

of your vertebrae subluxing? Why is one hip higher than the other?

Do you have an actual leg length differential as in one leg is

measureably shorter than the other - the actual leg itself? Or is

it because of muscle chronic muscle contracture pulling one hip

higher and rotating it? What did he recommend for the spinal

inflammation? A bunch of NSAIDS on top of all the other meds you

are already taking?

Remember my stories about working on Barb when I was still in

school? She had also been told (by 4 Chiros, 4 Osteos and 2 PTs

over 15 years) that she had a fused left hip and one leg shorter

than the other. She didn't have either. She had a fascial

restriction in her lumbar back that was pulling the hip and leg out

of place.

My personal advice? Do what your doctor orders and your insurance

pays for ... but consider the following as an alternative or

complimentary approach. Get checked by someone familiar with and

trained in myofascial release to see if that might be the problem

with your hip. Consider either lymphatic drainage therapy and/or

polarity to address the inflammation in lieu of more meds. Also

consider polarity to address the degenerative disks. One of the

things about polarity and either the straight X technique or the

spinal X technique is that they are good for osteoarthritis and

opening up space in both joints and vertebrae. They are also good

for spinal adjustments as long as the vertebrae are not totally

subluxed. I would also recommend checking into cranialsacral

work.

[Guest guest]

Today I had my first manipulation with the chiropractor. He first

showed me my xrays. I have a pretty bad neck, I think he said at C5

and C6...It is close to becoming fused in that area. He believes he

can keep it from doing that; however, he can't put me in the normal

range, as it's too degenerated. My doctor had told me several years

ago, that I had cervical disk degeneration. Also, in the lower

spine, there is a place that is right next to the stage my neck is

in. He will better be able to help that area. He also said I have

one hip about an inch higher than the other, and that it's also

rotated forward to quite an extent. He feels he'll be able to

correct that. BUT, he told me it will take some time, and quite a

few treatments, and would like to see me be able to be on a

maintenance program, even after he has those two areas as good as he

can get them. That would mean once a week to see if I need

manipulation. For now, and probably a couple months, it will be

three times a week, and then for several weeks after that, twice a

week. He did do a mild manipulation of my neck and back today, but

I don't really feel a lot better yet. He did say there is a LOT of

inflammation in both places.

If anyone on the list has had a history with chiropractors, I would

be interest in what you have to say about it.

-------

(1) I/we have had EXTENSIVE experience with Chiropractors (and

Osteopaths) over the last 35 plus years.

(2) If there are any Chiropractors, relatives of Chiropractors or

friends of Chiropractors on the list, I will apologize in advance if

what I am about to say offends them, but I have to call it like I

see it from experience.

(3) The treatment schedule he outlined for you is typical of, if not

all, almost all Chiropractors. I think one of the courses they take

in school must be called Maximizing Patient Revenue. I have met

exactly ONE Chiropractor in the last 35 years who did not follow the

aggressive treatment schedule outlined above, and that was not as a

patient. That one happened to be one of my instructors in Massage

school, and she was totally atypical in that she tried to avoid

spinal manipulation at all if she could get the job done using less

aggressive techniques. Correction - make that two. I met another

one in a class last weekend.

By contrast, every Osteopath I have ever seen (and I have seen

several over the years), followed an approach of " let's see how few

treatments are required to get the job done. If you need more, fine,

but let's not over do it. "

(4) As info, I not only personally have the HEDS variety of EDS, I

also have degenerative disk disease in both the cervical and lumbar

spine, especially the lumbar area. I think mine has been caused by a

combination of three things over the years: EDS, Osteoarthritis, and

several relatively severe traumas from things like car accidents and

stupid screw-ups moving furniture. Up until the last couple of

years, I averaged one good, on my ass, on my back, gimp and hobble,

episode every 12-18 months for around 30 straight years. But

whatever caused the particular incident at the time, the treatment

schedule was the same - and that means the same as yours. I have

even had two Chiros over the years get snippy with me for not

following their once a month " maintenance " programs. For what it is

worth, the only time I have ever had a medical insurance claim

challenged was one time when I was seeing a Chiro as the result of

an autombile accident. After a prolonged series of treatments, I

was informed by the insurance company that it was starting to border

on milking the system. I was not being accused of it - they were

accusing my Chiro. The last time I personally went to a Chiro was

July 2003 - when he broke my ribs.

(5) Regarding your specific situation, you said you have

degeneration bordering on fusion at C5-C6, the same in the low back,

heavy inflammation in both areas, and one hip that is an inch higher

than the other and rotated forward. Did I miss anything?

Several questions come immediately to mind. The first involves your

disk degeneration. Do you have an erosion of the disk capsule? A

thinning of it? Is it relatively uniform on all sides or is it

predominately on one side such that it bulges on the other? Are any

of your vertebrae subluxing? Why is one hip higher than the other?

Do you have an actual leg length differential as in one leg is

measureably shorter than the other - the actual leg itself? Or is

it because of muscle chronic muscle contracture pulling one hip

higher and rotating it? What did he recommend for the spinal

inflammation? A bunch of NSAIDS on top of all the other meds you

are already taking?

Remember my stories about working on Barb when I was still in

school? She had also been told (by 4 Chiros, 4 Osteos and 2 PTs

over 15 years) that she had a fused left hip and one leg shorter

than the other. She didn't have either. She had a fascial

restriction in her lumbar back that was pulling the hip and leg out

of place.

My personal advice? Do what your doctor orders and your insurance

pays for ... but consider the following as an alternative or

complimentary approach. Get checked by someone familiar with and

trained in myofascial release to see if that might be the problem

with your hip. Consider either lymphatic drainage therapy and/or

polarity to address the inflammation in lieu of more meds. Also

consider polarity to address the degenerative disks. One of the

things about polarity and either the straight X technique or the

spinal X technique is that they are good for osteoarthritis and

opening up space in both joints and vertebrae. They are also good

for spinal adjustments as long as the vertebrae are not totally

subluxed. I would also recommend checking into cranialsacral

work.

[Guest guest]

Today I had my first manipulation with the chiropractor. He first

showed me my xrays. I have a pretty bad neck, I think he said at C5

and C6...It is close to becoming fused in that area. He believes he

can keep it from doing that; however, he can't put me in the normal

range, as it's too degenerated. My doctor had told me several years

ago, that I had cervical disk degeneration. Also, in the lower

spine, there is a place that is right next to the stage my neck is

in. He will better be able to help that area. He also said I have

one hip about an inch higher than the other, and that it's also

rotated forward to quite an extent. He feels he'll be able to

correct that. BUT, he told me it will take some time, and quite a

few treatments, and would like to see me be able to be on a

maintenance program, even after he has those two areas as good as he

can get them. That would mean once a week to see if I need

manipulation. For now, and probably a couple months, it will be

three times a week, and then for several weeks after that, twice a

week. He did do a mild manipulation of my neck and back today, but

I don't really feel a lot better yet. He did say there is a LOT of

inflammation in both places.

If anyone on the list has had a history with chiropractors, I would

be interest in what you have to say about it.

-------

(1) I/we have had EXTENSIVE experience with Chiropractors (and

Osteopaths) over the last 35 plus years.

(2) If there are any Chiropractors, relatives of Chiropractors or

friends of Chiropractors on the list, I will apologize in advance if

what I am about to say offends them, but I have to call it like I

see it from experience.

(3) The treatment schedule he outlined for you is typical of, if not

all, almost all Chiropractors. I think one of the courses they take

in school must be called Maximizing Patient Revenue. I have met

exactly ONE Chiropractor in the last 35 years who did not follow the

aggressive treatment schedule outlined above, and that was not as a

patient. That one happened to be one of my instructors in Massage

school, and she was totally atypical in that she tried to avoid

spinal manipulation at all if she could get the job done using less

aggressive techniques. Correction - make that two. I met another

one in a class last weekend.

By contrast, every Osteopath I have ever seen (and I have seen

several over the years), followed an approach of " let's see how few

treatments are required to get the job done. If you need more, fine,

but let's not over do it. "

(4) As info, I not only personally have the HEDS variety of EDS, I

also have degenerative disk disease in both the cervical and lumbar

spine, especially the lumbar area. I think mine has been caused by a

combination of three things over the years: EDS, Osteoarthritis, and

several relatively severe traumas from things like car accidents and

stupid screw-ups moving furniture. Up until the last couple of

years, I averaged one good, on my ass, on my back, gimp and hobble,

episode every 12-18 months for around 30 straight years. But

whatever caused the particular incident at the time, the treatment

schedule was the same - and that means the same as yours. I have

even had two Chiros over the years get snippy with me for not

following their once a month " maintenance " programs. For what it is

worth, the only time I have ever had a medical insurance claim

challenged was one time when I was seeing a Chiro as the result of

an autombile accident. After a prolonged series of treatments, I

was informed by the insurance company that it was starting to border

on milking the system. I was not being accused of it - they were

accusing my Chiro. The last time I personally went to a Chiro was

July 2003 - when he broke my ribs.

(5) Regarding your specific situation, you said you have

degeneration bordering on fusion at C5-C6, the same in the low back,

heavy inflammation in both areas, and one hip that is an inch higher

than the other and rotated forward. Did I miss anything?

Several questions come immediately to mind. The first involves your

disk degeneration. Do you have an erosion of the disk capsule? A

thinning of it? Is it relatively uniform on all sides or is it

predominately on one side such that it bulges on the other? Are any

of your vertebrae subluxing? Why is one hip higher than the other?

Do you have an actual leg length differential as in one leg is

measureably shorter than the other - the actual leg itself? Or is

it because of muscle chronic muscle contracture pulling one hip

higher and rotating it? What did he recommend for the spinal

inflammation? A bunch of NSAIDS on top of all the other meds you

are already taking?

Remember my stories about working on Barb when I was still in

school? She had also been told (by 4 Chiros, 4 Osteos and 2 PTs

over 15 years) that she had a fused left hip and one leg shorter

than the other. She didn't have either. She had a fascial

restriction in her lumbar back that was pulling the hip and leg out

of place.

My personal advice? Do what your doctor orders and your insurance

pays for ... but consider the following as an alternative or

complimentary approach. Get checked by someone familiar with and

trained in myofascial release to see if that might be the problem

with your hip. Consider either lymphatic drainage therapy and/or

polarity to address the inflammation in lieu of more meds. Also

consider polarity to address the degenerative disks. One of the

things about polarity and either the straight X technique or the

spinal X technique is that they are good for osteoarthritis and

opening up space in both joints and vertebrae. They are also good

for spinal adjustments as long as the vertebrae are not totally

subluxed. I would also recommend checking into cranialsacral

work.

[Guest guest]

Yes, there is a thinning of the space between the vertebrae. I

believe it's on one side, but I don't THINK it bulges on the other

side - I'm not sure. It's making the vertebrae very close together,

or in HIS words, close to fusing.

As far as subluxing, he didn't say, but I have always suspected they

sublux during the night - I don't know how I can tell.?

As far as one hip being higher, I don't think there is actual leg

length difference. I think it must be because of muscle

contracture, as you state.

He didn't advise any medication for the inflammation, just ice.

Is there anything I should tell Betty when I go to see her about

what the chiro said or should I just state my symptoms and let her

do her thing?

--------------

(1) Thinning of the SPACE between the vertebrae can be caused either

by an actual erosion of the disk capsule (it is a fibrous shell with

a gelatinous interior, shaped like a donut with the spinal cord and

nerves traveling through the hole). Degenerative Disk Disease

involves an erosion of the actual capsule. Thinning of the space can

also be caused by a compression of the disk by the vertebrae.

Vertebral compression can be caused either by the vertebrae

subluxing or spinal deformity from such things as scoliosis,

lordosis or kyphosis. Subluxing is frequently caused by muscle

attachments pulling a vertebrae out of position. In either case,

fusion occurs when two adjacent vertebrae " grow together. "

Specific treatment depends on the cause of the " thinning. "

(2) Subluxing during the night? Do you wake up with a feeling that

it is catching, with sharp, stabby pains? And it then loosens up

after you get up and start moving around? If you do, you are

probably correct about it subluxing during the night and then

shifting back in place after you get up.

(3) As for leg length, I don't know why they always tell you

that " one leg is shorter than the other " because more often than not

the legs themselves are the same length. It is just that, posturely,

one hip is canted higher than the other, giving the appearance of

leg length differences. And more often than not, it is not a spinal

or bone problem, it is muscle or fascia - in other words, soft

tissue. And most MDs and Chiros have totally inadequate training in

soft tissue issues.

(4) I should have guessed about the ice recommendation because

chiros can't prescribe meds, although they do recommend stuff like

Tylenol.

(5) Tell Betty what you know. There is nothing more frustrating to

a therapist than a client walking in and basically saying - you

figure it all out. Well, not getting paid or getting hit with an

indecent proposal would bother them more, but having to " guess " can

be very annoying. My absolute worst experience in student clinic

was a client who gave me a poor evaluation because I couldn't figure

out where she was hurting. Granted, she wouldn't answer any of my

questions and never volunteered any information herself. She just

had the attitude that I should be able to figure it all out on my

own. The irony was that she was an LMP herself, having graduated

from the same program two terms before that. When I griped about it

in our lab session a couple of days later, my instructor said " Don't

worry about it - she was pain in the ass as a student also. "

(6) The above mentioned jerk was also the only person I have ever

worked on where I experienced a very definite, negative, energetic

blowback. I had an absolutely brutal headache for two straight days

after working on her. I didn't get rid of it until the lab session.

Our guest speaker that night was a sound therapist. She put us

through a deep breathing exercise using a non-rhythmic music CD. I

learned a couple of good lessons from that episode, including the

importance of my grounding and centering before and while working on

someone.