Re: Billy

[Guest guest]

wrote

(Why do I stay on this list as it only serves to disappoint me more. I know

I have a lovely son but all my hopes and dreams were distroyed with such a

horrid pregnancy, induction and emergency section, not being able to BF, no

wonder I got PND.

I was the one in the AN group who had booked a homebirth upfront asap and

said I would BF in Allders. 2 of the others subsequently booked homebirths,

one was successful and the other was transferred)>>>>>>>..

But I am sure you are not the only one on the list who was disappointed

by their experiences of BF & Pregnancy & birth.

However you say yourself you have a lovely son and maybe your PND is getting

in your way of seeing what a good mum you are.

Push for your counselling it will help you to come to terms with emotions.

The NCT wants every mother to have wonderful experiences and that is why

it works so hard campaigning and supporting hospitals to become BFI friendly.

Most of all remember that we are not here to remind you of your

disappointments but to support you and provide a " coffee morning " friendship.

Trisha

SAHM to 3 boys

[Guest guest]

> Most of all remember that we are not here to remind you of your

> disappointments but to support you and provide a " coffee morning "

friendship.

Thanks Trisha,

This is probably why I stay here anyway. I need some friends and

non-virtual ones are so hard to come by, especially at awkward times of day

and weekends.

However, I am very conscious that I do not represent the " vision " of the

NCT nor support it through eating habits (although have tried alternatives).

Thanks again

[Guest guest]

> wrote;

However, I am very conscious that I do not represent the " vision " of

the

> NCT nor support it through eating habits (although have tried

alternatives).

> >>>>>>>>>

Well , my " vision " of the NCT (before I joined, and partially

after I joined) was hippy mums with long kaftans, loads of kids, all

home births of course with no pain relief, BF for England!

I don't fit that image either!

You are the continual reminder that things must change so that

the people who follow you do not have the same experiences you

have.

Just remember that your son is the outcome and he was worth all

the pain and effort.

Trisha

SAHM to 3 boys

[Guest guest]

yes i totally agree with this billy.

Love

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-soapy-group

Re:

> wrote

> (Why do I stay on this list as it only serves to disappoint me more.

I know

> I have a lovely son but all my hopes and dreams were distroyed with

such a

> horrid pregnancy, induction and emergency section, not being able to

BF, no

> wonder I got PND.

> I was the one in the AN group who had booked a homebirth upfront

asap and

> said I would BF in Allders. 2 of the others subsequently booked

homebirths,

> one was successful and the other was transferred)>>>>>>>..

>

> But I am sure you are not the only one on the list who was

disappointed

> by their experiences of BF & Pregnancy & birth.

> However you say yourself you have a lovely son and maybe your PND is

getting

> in your way of seeing what a good mum you are.

> Push for your counselling it will help you to come to terms with

emotions.

> The NCT wants every mother to have wonderful experiences and that is

why

> it works so hard campaigning and supporting hospitals to become BFI

friendly.

>

> Most of all remember that we are not here to remind you of your

> disappointments but to support you and provide a " coffee morning "

friendship.

>

> Trisha

> SAHM to 3 boys

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

yes i totally agree with this billy.

Love

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-soapy-group

Re:

> wrote

> (Why do I stay on this list as it only serves to disappoint me more.

I know

> I have a lovely son but all my hopes and dreams were distroyed with

such a

> horrid pregnancy, induction and emergency section, not being able to

BF, no

> wonder I got PND.

> I was the one in the AN group who had booked a homebirth upfront

asap and

> said I would BF in Allders. 2 of the others subsequently booked

homebirths,

> one was successful and the other was transferred)>>>>>>>..

>

> But I am sure you are not the only one on the list who was

disappointed

> by their experiences of BF & Pregnancy & birth.

> However you say yourself you have a lovely son and maybe your PND is

getting

> in your way of seeing what a good mum you are.

> Push for your counselling it will help you to come to terms with

emotions.

> The NCT wants every mother to have wonderful experiences and that is

why

> it works so hard campaigning and supporting hospitals to become BFI

friendly.

>

> Most of all remember that we are not here to remind you of your

> disappointments but to support you and provide a " coffee morning "

friendship.

>

> Trisha

> SAHM to 3 boys

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

yes i totally agree with this billy.

Love

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-soapy-group

Re:

> wrote

> (Why do I stay on this list as it only serves to disappoint me more.

I know

> I have a lovely son but all my hopes and dreams were distroyed with

such a

> horrid pregnancy, induction and emergency section, not being able to

BF, no

> wonder I got PND.

> I was the one in the AN group who had booked a homebirth upfront

asap and

> said I would BF in Allders. 2 of the others subsequently booked

homebirths,

> one was successful and the other was transferred)>>>>>>>..

>

> But I am sure you are not the only one on the list who was

disappointed

> by their experiences of BF & Pregnancy & birth.

> However you say yourself you have a lovely son and maybe your PND is

getting

> in your way of seeing what a good mum you are.

> Push for your counselling it will help you to come to terms with

emotions.

> The NCT wants every mother to have wonderful experiences and that is

why

> it works so hard campaigning and supporting hospitals to become BFI

friendly.

>

> Most of all remember that we are not here to remind you of your

> disappointments but to support you and provide a " coffee morning "

friendship.

>

> Trisha

> SAHM to 3 boys

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> Hannah writes:

- if you expect the worst you may find you are pleasantly

> surprised. I found my first birth experience traumatic,

I also 'failed' at breastfeeding my first, but managed to feed my

second for 10 months. It was a very healing experience to do it

again and do it 'right' (that's just how I felt about it).

That`s how I felt - it`s as if I had to go through it once to know what

it was all about, and wiht number 2 I was able to prepare things in

advance and make sure everything was 'on my side'. At least I knew what

help & support was available with DD2. With DD1 I hadn`t a clue about

b/f, or when/who to call for help.

Barbara

[Guest guest]

> > I'd love a second but am petrified of pregnancy and the ensuing

screwing

> up

> > due to hormones.<<

, I'm so sorry to hear of your bad birth experience, but maybe a

second wouldn't have to be so bad. At least now you know what did

happen you could have a proper birth plan next time with all the

things you DON'T want happening if at all possible. If nothing else

you could at least state that you didn't want the baby to be bottle

fed at all.

My second birth was the best of the lot for me, after an induced first

birth and an episiotomy (sp?) that broke down afterwards meaning I had

to be recut and restitched 3 months later. - for all my future births

I had put on my notes " no episiotomy unless absolutely essential " and

I never had another one.

I know how angry it can make you feel thinking back on births that

didn't go to plan - my 3rd birth was the worst and all down to a

terrible midwife and when I think back to that it just makes me feel

so bad, despite the fact of having had the 3 other births, and a

lovely healthy DS2. What I try to think about is that I am the only

one to feel that way, at least my son doesn't remember and it hasn't

affected him at all in any way. I've told him jokingly that he was

the one how didn't want to come out and he thinks it is funny, so that

is best really that he doesn't pick up anything negative about it from

me.

As for the NCT, well for me I really only joined to make friends as

I'd moved house when I was 7 months pregnant with my first. I never

really expected much more than that out of it and it is only as the

years have gone by that I have gradually realised all the good things

they have " on offer " like bf councillors, anti-natal classes etc etc.

Lorraine

Mum to 10, Natasha 8, 5, ph 3

[Guest guest]

> Even if you decide to go for an elective section you can do it on your

> terms - dimmed lights/music playing etc - you can have the control.

My SIL has recently had her second baby (5 weeks old). Her first birth

experience was dreadful, long labour which failed to progress leading to

emergency c/s with an epidural which didn't work properly so that she was

able to feel it all, massive blood loss. For a long long time she said that

she wouldn't have more children because she couldn't face another birth but

my DB wanted more children so she gave in. This second birth was quite

different. She decided on an elective section and felt in control, had an

element of choice about the birth date, made her own decisions about

anesthaesia, was prepared for the post-operative recovery. She found it a

very positive experience and whereas first time round she wasn't interested

in the baby and felt she didn't bond for many weeks, this time she felt so

different and welcomed her new son straight away with real joy. Not only

did she find this birth so much better, but it has also helped her bury the

feelings she had about her first.

Lynda

SAHM to (8), (5), Fraser (3), Callum (15/5/00)

Newsletter editor, Mid-Northumberland Branch

Area Rep, Region 7

www.familygarland.co.uk

[Guest guest]

That`s how I felt - it`s as if I had to go through it once to know

what

> it was all about, and wiht number 2 I was able to prepare things in

> advance and make sure everything was 'on my side'. At least I knew

what

> help & support was available with DD2. With DD1 I hadn`t a clue

about

> b/f, or when/who to call for help.

> Barbara

I failed four times at bf. Only succeeded with the last four of my

babies.

And as for births, I had 7 out of 8 induced high tech births

(monitored constantly, on my back etc) for no good reason

except that I wanted it that way, thought I was being clever having

babies " by appointment " , no waiting! I can't go back and undo what I

did, which is one of the reasons I trained to be an ANT and a BFC, so

that at least I could help others have better experiences.

Ruthie

[Guest guest]

That`s how I felt - it`s as if I had to go through it once to know

what

> it was all about, and wiht number 2 I was able to prepare things in

> advance and make sure everything was 'on my side'. At least I knew

what

> help & support was available with DD2. With DD1 I hadn`t a clue

about

> b/f, or when/who to call for help.

> Barbara

I failed four times at bf. Only succeeded with the last four of my

babies.

And as for births, I had 7 out of 8 induced high tech births

(monitored constantly, on my back etc) for no good reason

except that I wanted it that way, thought I was being clever having

babies " by appointment " , no waiting! I can't go back and undo what I

did, which is one of the reasons I trained to be an ANT and a BFC, so

that at least I could help others have better experiences.

Ruthie

[Guest guest]

That`s how I felt - it`s as if I had to go through it once to know

what

> it was all about, and wiht number 2 I was able to prepare things in

> advance and make sure everything was 'on my side'. At least I knew

what

> help & support was available with DD2. With DD1 I hadn`t a clue

about

> b/f, or when/who to call for help.

> Barbara

I failed four times at bf. Only succeeded with the last four of my

babies.

And as for births, I had 7 out of 8 induced high tech births

(monitored constantly, on my back etc) for no good reason

except that I wanted it that way, thought I was being clever having

babies " by appointment " , no waiting! I can't go back and undo what I

did, which is one of the reasons I trained to be an ANT and a BFC, so

that at least I could help others have better experiences.

Ruthie

[Guest guest]

I really admire your persistence, Ruthie. I'm sure if I'd not managed

to feed my second after 'failing' with No1 I would have had no

confidence in my ability to BF at all and maybe wouldn't even have

tried with Nos3 & 4 for fear of setting myself up to 'fail' again.

Lesley

--------------

From: ruthie

I failed four times at bf. Only succeeded with the last four of my

babies.

[Guest guest]

I really admire your persistence, Ruthie. I'm sure if I'd not managed

to feed my second after 'failing' with No1 I would have had no

confidence in my ability to BF at all and maybe wouldn't even have

tried with Nos3 & 4 for fear of setting myself up to 'fail' again.

Lesley

--------------

From: ruthie

I failed four times at bf. Only succeeded with the last four of my

babies.

[Guest guest]

I really admire your persistence, Ruthie. I'm sure if I'd not managed

to feed my second after 'failing' with No1 I would have had no

confidence in my ability to BF at all and maybe wouldn't even have

tried with Nos3 & 4 for fear of setting myself up to 'fail' again.

Lesley

--------------

From: ruthie

I failed four times at bf. Only succeeded with the last four of my

babies.

[Guest guest]

> I really admire your persistence, Ruthie. I'm sure if I'd not

managed

> to feed my second after 'failing' with No1 I would have had no

> confidence in my ability to BF at all and maybe wouldn't even have

> tried with Nos3 & 4 for fear of setting myself up to 'fail' again.

>

> Lesley

> --------------

> babies.

For me it was a question of getting the supply sorted. I couldn't

figure out why I had no milk left by about 10 days old. Basically I

was being told to give top ups after every feed " Just in case " . I

didn't even try to bf no. 3, but tried again with no. 4. (still

topping up as instructed.) It wasn't until I read a LLL book when

expecting no.5, which just contained this magic phrase " supply and

demand " that I knew where I had been going wrong. When he was born I

stood like a tigress over his cot all night in case the hospital staff

gave him a bottle while I wasn't looking. He slept all night, I

stayed awake, guarding!

I bf him constantly, and I mean constantly, for about 3 weeks

(maximum break between feeds: 20 mns!) until for the first time, my

milk supply began to establish, and the gaps between feeds widened. I

had been determined to get this skill " cracked " and I did. Even

though now, looking back, I never had anyone show me positioning and

I'm sure it was far from perfect, I bf the last 4 of my kids for 6-11

months. Never got sore, no idea why!

NB This son has turned out to be the troublesome one, now aged 24,

despite all my efforts to give him the best. (((((((( Tonight he

came in to talk to me, and more or less told me that he regarded his

Dad and me as unwanted baggage in his successful and independent

future. (((((((

Ruthie

[Guest guest]

> I really admire your persistence, Ruthie. I'm sure if I'd not

managed

> to feed my second after 'failing' with No1 I would have had no

> confidence in my ability to BF at all and maybe wouldn't even have

> tried with Nos3 & 4 for fear of setting myself up to 'fail' again.

>

> Lesley

> --------------

> babies.

For me it was a question of getting the supply sorted. I couldn't

figure out why I had no milk left by about 10 days old. Basically I

was being told to give top ups after every feed " Just in case " . I

didn't even try to bf no. 3, but tried again with no. 4. (still

topping up as instructed.) It wasn't until I read a LLL book when

expecting no.5, which just contained this magic phrase " supply and

demand " that I knew where I had been going wrong. When he was born I

stood like a tigress over his cot all night in case the hospital staff

gave him a bottle while I wasn't looking. He slept all night, I

stayed awake, guarding!

I bf him constantly, and I mean constantly, for about 3 weeks

(maximum break between feeds: 20 mns!) until for the first time, my

milk supply began to establish, and the gaps between feeds widened. I

had been determined to get this skill " cracked " and I did. Even

though now, looking back, I never had anyone show me positioning and

I'm sure it was far from perfect, I bf the last 4 of my kids for 6-11

months. Never got sore, no idea why!

NB This son has turned out to be the troublesome one, now aged 24,

despite all my efforts to give him the best. (((((((( Tonight he

came in to talk to me, and more or less told me that he regarded his

Dad and me as unwanted baggage in his successful and independent

future. (((((((

Ruthie

[Guest guest]

> I really admire your persistence, Ruthie. I'm sure if I'd not

managed

> to feed my second after 'failing' with No1 I would have had no

> confidence in my ability to BF at all and maybe wouldn't even have

> tried with Nos3 & 4 for fear of setting myself up to 'fail' again.

>

> Lesley

> --------------

> babies.

For me it was a question of getting the supply sorted. I couldn't

figure out why I had no milk left by about 10 days old. Basically I

was being told to give top ups after every feed " Just in case " . I

didn't even try to bf no. 3, but tried again with no. 4. (still

topping up as instructed.) It wasn't until I read a LLL book when

expecting no.5, which just contained this magic phrase " supply and

demand " that I knew where I had been going wrong. When he was born I

stood like a tigress over his cot all night in case the hospital staff

gave him a bottle while I wasn't looking. He slept all night, I

stayed awake, guarding!

I bf him constantly, and I mean constantly, for about 3 weeks

(maximum break between feeds: 20 mns!) until for the first time, my

milk supply began to establish, and the gaps between feeds widened. I

had been determined to get this skill " cracked " and I did. Even

though now, looking back, I never had anyone show me positioning and

I'm sure it was far from perfect, I bf the last 4 of my kids for 6-11

months. Never got sore, no idea why!

NB This son has turned out to be the troublesome one, now aged 24,

despite all my efforts to give him the best. (((((((( Tonight he

came in to talk to me, and more or less told me that he regarded his

Dad and me as unwanted baggage in his successful and independent

future. (((((((

Ruthie

[Guest guest]

> NB This son has turned out to be the troublesome one, now aged 24,

> despite all my efforts to give him the best. (((((((( Tonight he

> came in to talk to me, and more or less told me that he regarded his

> Dad and me as unwanted baggage in his successful and independent

> future. (((((((

Oh Ruthie, aren't children wonderful. They know exactly which buttons to

press. Perhaps he will remember those words when he is a father, and will

feel as dreadful as you do at the moment.

Oh and I hope he enjoys his successful and independent future not being able

to share it with his parents cos he's too independent and successful. :/

Hugs

Sue

[Guest guest]

> NB This son has turned out to be the troublesome one, now aged 24,

> despite all my efforts to give him the best. (((((((( Tonight he

> came in to talk to me, and more or less told me that he regarded his

> Dad and me as unwanted baggage in his successful and independent

> future. (((((((

Oh Ruthie, aren't children wonderful. They know exactly which buttons to

press. Perhaps he will remember those words when he is a father, and will

feel as dreadful as you do at the moment.

Oh and I hope he enjoys his successful and independent future not being able

to share it with his parents cos he's too independent and successful. :/

Hugs

Sue

[Guest guest]

Oh Ruthie, aren't children wonderful. They know exactly which

buttons to

> press.

Yes. The session last night was so traumatic I am still shaking. I

felt like he had an invisible score sheet in front of him and was

ticking and crossing according to whether my answers pleased him or

not.

Personally, to and to anyone contemplating whether to have

another baby; I would say this. Do you want another *adult* in your

life? A pregnancy, a birth, a baby, however traumatic and awful, the

memory of them does fade. The adult child you are left with is yours

for life.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't go back and undo any of my 8 children;

make them never have happened. I love/loved them all, and if there is

anything at all I regret about them, it's not having tried hard enough

with Uri, my son who died in the accident 5 yrs ago. I think this is

probably what is preventing us from cutting Azariah (the 24 y o) off

for his apalling behaviour towards us; we have lost one son, we don't

want to lose another, even though it is looking increasingly like we

are losing him anyhow, just another kind of loss; a loss for which

there are no funerals or sympathetic supporters, only critics and

introspection on where we went wrong.

Ruthie

[Guest guest]

Oh Ruthie, aren't children wonderful. They know exactly which

buttons to

> press.

Yes. The session last night was so traumatic I am still shaking. I

felt like he had an invisible score sheet in front of him and was

ticking and crossing according to whether my answers pleased him or

not.

Personally, to and to anyone contemplating whether to have

another baby; I would say this. Do you want another *adult* in your

life? A pregnancy, a birth, a baby, however traumatic and awful, the

memory of them does fade. The adult child you are left with is yours

for life.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't go back and undo any of my 8 children;

make them never have happened. I love/loved them all, and if there is

anything at all I regret about them, it's not having tried hard enough

with Uri, my son who died in the accident 5 yrs ago. I think this is

probably what is preventing us from cutting Azariah (the 24 y o) off

for his apalling behaviour towards us; we have lost one son, we don't

want to lose another, even though it is looking increasingly like we

are losing him anyhow, just another kind of loss; a loss for which

there are no funerals or sympathetic supporters, only critics and

introspection on where we went wrong.

Ruthie

[Guest guest]

Ruthie,

I have only been in this situation from the other side but please

don't burn your boats with him. At some point he will come back; it

might take a few years but he will grow in maturity and understanding.

If you leave the door open then he has a way back to you.

Lots of hugs, it sounds very, very hard.

Lesley,

Antenatal teacher, trainee breasteeding counsellor.

Demented mother of 3. Worthing.

" We are born naked, wet and hungry. Then things get worse " .

Re:

> Oh Ruthie, aren't children wonderful. They know exactly which

> buttons to

> > press.

>

> Yes. The session last night was so traumatic I am still shaking. I

> felt like he had an invisible score sheet in front of him and was

> ticking and crossing according to whether my answers pleased him or

> not.

>

> Personally, to and to anyone contemplating whether to have

> another baby; I would say this. Do you want another *adult* in

your

> life? A pregnancy, a birth, a baby, however traumatic and awful,

the

> memory of them does fade. The adult child you are left with is

yours

> for life.

>

> Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't go back and undo any of my 8

children;

> make them never have happened. I love/loved them all, and if there

is

> anything at all I regret about them, it's not having tried hard

enough

> with Uri, my son who died in the accident 5 yrs ago. I think this

is

> probably what is preventing us from cutting Azariah (the 24 y o) off

> for his apalling behaviour towards us; we have lost one son, we

don't

> want to lose another, even though it is looking increasingly like we

> are losing him anyhow, just another kind of loss; a loss for which

> there are no funerals or sympathetic supporters, only critics and

> introspection on where we went wrong.

>

> Ruthie

>

>

> *** NCT enquiry line - 0 ***

>

> Live chat http://www.yahoogroups.com/chat/nct-coffee

>

> Have you found out about all the other groups for the NCT online?

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ruthie,

I have only been in this situation from the other side but please

don't burn your boats with him. At some point he will come back; it

might take a few years but he will grow in maturity and understanding.

If you leave the door open then he has a way back to you.

Lots of hugs, it sounds very, very hard.

Lesley,

Antenatal teacher, trainee breasteeding counsellor.

Demented mother of 3. Worthing.

" We are born naked, wet and hungry. Then things get worse " .

Re:

> Oh Ruthie, aren't children wonderful. They know exactly which

> buttons to

> > press.

>

> Yes. The session last night was so traumatic I am still shaking. I

> felt like he had an invisible score sheet in front of him and was

> ticking and crossing according to whether my answers pleased him or

> not.

>

> Personally, to and to anyone contemplating whether to have

> another baby; I would say this. Do you want another *adult* in

your

> life? A pregnancy, a birth, a baby, however traumatic and awful,

the

> memory of them does fade. The adult child you are left with is

yours

> for life.

>

> Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't go back and undo any of my 8

children;

> make them never have happened. I love/loved them all, and if there

is

> anything at all I regret about them, it's not having tried hard

enough

> with Uri, my son who died in the accident 5 yrs ago. I think this

is

> probably what is preventing us from cutting Azariah (the 24 y o) off

> for his apalling behaviour towards us; we have lost one son, we

don't

> want to lose another, even though it is looking increasingly like we

> are losing him anyhow, just another kind of loss; a loss for which

> there are no funerals or sympathetic supporters, only critics and

> introspection on where we went wrong.

>

> Ruthie

>

>

> *** NCT enquiry line - 0 ***

>

> Live chat http://www.yahoogroups.com/chat/nct-coffee

>

> Have you found out about all the other groups for the NCT online?

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ruthie,

I have only been in this situation from the other side but please

don't burn your boats with him. At some point he will come back; it

might take a few years but he will grow in maturity and understanding.

If you leave the door open then he has a way back to you.

Lots of hugs, it sounds very, very hard.

Lesley,

Antenatal teacher, trainee breasteeding counsellor.

Demented mother of 3. Worthing.

" We are born naked, wet and hungry. Then things get worse " .

Re:

> Oh Ruthie, aren't children wonderful. They know exactly which

> buttons to

> > press.

>

> Yes. The session last night was so traumatic I am still shaking. I

> felt like he had an invisible score sheet in front of him and was

> ticking and crossing according to whether my answers pleased him or

> not.

>

> Personally, to and to anyone contemplating whether to have

> another baby; I would say this. Do you want another *adult* in

your

> life? A pregnancy, a birth, a baby, however traumatic and awful,

the

> memory of them does fade. The adult child you are left with is

yours

> for life.

>

> Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't go back and undo any of my 8

children;

> make them never have happened. I love/loved them all, and if there

is

> anything at all I regret about them, it's not having tried hard

enough

> with Uri, my son who died in the accident 5 yrs ago. I think this

is

> probably what is preventing us from cutting Azariah (the 24 y o) off

> for his apalling behaviour towards us; we have lost one son, we

don't

> want to lose another, even though it is looking increasingly like we

> are losing him anyhow, just another kind of loss; a loss for which

> there are no funerals or sympathetic supporters, only critics and

> introspection on where we went wrong.

>

> Ruthie

>

>

> *** NCT enquiry line - 0 ***

>

> Live chat http://www.yahoogroups.com/chat/nct-coffee

>

> Have you found out about all the other groups for the NCT online?

>

>