RE: Editorial: Texas Legislature should deal with nurse shortage | Editorials & Opinions | Star-Telegram.com

[Guest guest]

Yeah it IS too bad. We EMS people continue to shoot ourselves in the foot by

not being able to pull ourselves together into ONE active voice in Texas. We

had the opportunity to become a " voice " when we had an EMS Association in Texas

that was trying to establish itself to be that venue. But so many of us waited

back in the wings, waited to see what would happen with the thought, " If it

becomes something, I will join. " Well, without those people joining then BEFORE

it was to become something, it never had the membership TO " become something. "

And now it appears to be thown to the wayside because its effectiveness was

never fully established and its membership and interest has wained because of

the lack of interest of EMS in general in Texas. We won't ever get to where the

nurses are politically. We won't ever have that power. Because we don't seem

to be able to join together as one group on ANYTHING to fight against things

that have the potential to dumb us down and put us in a little confined box

(scope of practice issues that appear to be moving forward depsite objections of

Texas EMS leaders ) or to fight FOR things that would benefit us (more grants, a

bigger piece of the pie in tobacco and trauma funds, more rights). We do, are

doing it, and have done it to our collective selves. No one is to blame but US.

And unless something happens SOON, we are going to find ourselves stuffed in the

" scope of practice box " , dumbed down, and with less political pull and less

access to state and federal monies than ever.

You know, the Dinosaurs in Texas EMS have been fighting these things behind the

scenes and publicly for YEARS. Henry Barber, Gene Gandy, Ron Haussecker,

myself, and MANY, MANY more that I haven't even begun to mention. We have

fought, and stood up, and tried to be a part of what Texas EMS has as a much

larger potential. But many of these Dinosaurs are retiring, have retired, or

have died and their voices are quieting. And it appears that there are very few

to take up the charge and raise their voices stepping up to the plate. I was

unable to attend the latest GETAC meetings but, from what I have been told, it

appears that things continue to move toward becoming more like every other state

even though it means lessening ourselves - by adopting the scope of practice.

That is just ONE issue that appears to be meeting less and less resistance. And

that reduction in resistance is NOT because the Texas EMS family WANTS it, it is

because as the Dinosaurs are retiring and dying off there are few left who even

comprehend the issues or seem to care to fight. There are few voices yet who

are willing to stand up in front of the audience and the committees and say,

" Have you READ this CRAP? Have you thought about this and how it would change

what we currently DO? Are you all just little lemmings who will run to the edge

of the clif and jump off just because you are told to? " Maybe some of us more

vocal Dinosaurs need to get back on a committee. Would that do any good about

waking some of you folks up out there? But then again, probably not - it didn't

inspire people to take up the torch to fight for what you want when we were

there because when we stopped being there and stopped being so vocal, very few

DID continue to fight the issues.

Ok, I am spent now....

Jane Dinsmore

To: texasems-l@...: joby@...: Sat, 31 Jan 2009

05:00:23 -0800Subject: Editorial: Texas Legislature should deal

with nurse shortage | Editorials & Opinions | Star-Telegram.com

Isn't to bad EMS folks can't get this kind of pull and

clout.http://www.star-telegram.com/242/v-touch/story/1175923.htmlJoby

BerkleySent from my iPhone

_________________________________________________________________

Windows Live™ Hotmail®…more than just e-mail.

http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_howitwor\

ks_012009

[Guest guest]

Jane:

To be honest, I have just about given up. We went through the Texas EMT

Association, EMT Association of Texas, and now the EMS Association of Texas.

We even gave things away through EMStock. Hundreds pre-registered and less

than 25% actually showed up. GETAC has been relatively ineffective because

it has no teeth. It is indeed sad.

So be it...

E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

Clinical Professor of Emergency Medicine

Director, EMS Fellowship

University of Nevada School of Medicine

Attending Emergency Physician

University Medical Center of Southern Nevada

Las Vegas, Nevada

[Guest guest]

Jane,

I share in your thoughts and agree with what you are saying here.

What gets me even more than the lack of interest by the general EMS

folks in Texas is the lack of our EMS leaders not wanting to join

together. Why are the EMS Directors, EMS Educators, and Owners of EMS

Services across Texas not interested in joining forces and to be heard

as one voice? They are the ones that are heard in their systems. The

leaders of the EMS services and classrooms have the ability to

influence their staff and students. It is very frustrating to hear

the complaints on this list and out in the field and to then see so

many EMS leaders post and/or lurk, but not come together as one. I

just don't get it! If we could convince a small portion of the

recognized leaders in EMS to support and be active in the only Texas

EMS Association today, can you imagine what that could spark? I know,

you've been there too, it's just too much to ask. There are still

just a few of us left trying to hold on to having a group of folks

band together, but it's a never ending battle when you can't grow that

number of voices. There is so much to do with so few people

interested in helping to do it!

Sincerely and Frustrated too,

Covington, LP, RN

Montgomery, Texas

EMSAT BOD

>

> Yeah it IS too bad. We EMS people continue to shoot ourselves in

> the foot by not being able to pull ourselves together into ONE

> active voice in Texas. We had the opportunity to become a " voice "

> when we had an EMS Association in Texas that was trying to establish

> itself to be that venue. But so many of us waited back in the

> wings, waited to see what would happen with the thought, " If it

> becomes something, I will join. " Well, without those people joining

> then BEFORE it was to become something, it never had the membership

> TO " become something. " And now it appears to be thown to the

> wayside because its effectiveness was never fully established and

> its membership and interest has wained because of the lack of

> interest of EMS in general in Texas. We won't ever get to where the

> nurses are politically. We won't ever have that power. Because we

> don't seem to be able to join together as one group on ANYTHING to

> fight against things that have the potential to dumb us down and put

> us in a little confined box (scope of practice issues that appear to

> be moving forward depsite objections of Texas EMS leaders ) or to

> fight FOR things that would benefit us (more grants, a bigger piece

> of the pie in tobacco and trauma funds, more rights). We do, are

> doing it, and have done it to our collective selves. No one is to

> blame but US. And unless something happens SOON, we are going to

> find ourselves stuffed in the " scope of practice box " , dumbed down,

> and with less political pull and less access to state and federal

> monies than ever.

>

> You know, the Dinosaurs in Texas EMS have been fighting these things

> behind the scenes and publicly for YEARS. Henry Barber, Gene Gandy,

> Ron Haussecker, myself, and MANY, MANY more that I haven't even

> begun to mention. We have fought, and stood up, and tried to be a

> part of what Texas EMS has as a much larger potential. But many of

> these Dinosaurs are retiring, have retired, or have died and their

> voices are quieting. And it appears that there are very few to take

> up the charge and raise their voices stepping up to the plate. I

> was unable to attend the latest GETAC meetings but, from what I have

> been told, it appears that things continue to move toward becoming

> more like every other state even though it means lessening ourselves

> - by adopting the scope of practice. That is just ONE issue that

> appears to be meeting less and less resistance. And that reduction

> in resistance is NOT because the Texas EMS family WANTS it, it is

> because as the Dinosaurs are retiring and dying off there are few

> left who even comprehend the issues or seem to care to fight. There

> are few voices yet who are willing to stand up in front of the

> audience and the committees and say, " Have you READ this CRAP? Have

> you thought about this and how it would change what we currently

> DO? Are you all just little lemmings who will run to the edge of

> the clif and jump off just because you are told to? " Maybe some of

> us more vocal Dinosaurs need to get back on a committee. Would that

> do any good about waking some of you folks up out there? But then

> again, probably not - it didn't inspire people to take up the torch

> to fight for what you want when we were there because when we

> stopped being there and stopped being so vocal, very few DID

> continue to fight the issues.

>

> Ok, I am spent now....

>

> Jane Dinsmore

>

>

>

> To: texasems-l@...: joby@...: Sat, 31 Jan

> 2009 05:00:23 -0800Subject: Editorial: Texas

> Legislature should deal with nurse shortage | Editorials & Opinions

> | Star-Telegram.com

>

>

>

> Isn't to bad EMS folks can't get this kind of pull and

clout.http://www.star-telegram.com/242/v-touch/story/1175923.htmlJoby

> BerkleySent from my iPhone

>

>

>

>

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Windows Live™ Hotmail®

> more than just e-mail.

>

http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_howitwor\

ks_012009

>

>

[Guest guest]

On Saturday, January 31, 2009 11:56, " Bledsoe " bbledsoe@...>

said:

> To be honest, I have just about given up.

I have given up. In fact, I gave up at least a decade ago. And honestly, I

fail to see why so many people continue chasing this pipe dream of unity in EMS.

It is not ever going to happen. Not even the slightest chance.

The fire chief's are not now, and will not ever be interested in joining forces

to promote the interests of private EMS enterprise, or non-EMS transfer

services. They are quite content with the IAFC, IAFF, and NFPA talking for

them, keeping their own interests at the forefront without getting bogged down

in commercial politics. Who can blame them?

The volunteers certainly aren't going to join forces with those professionals

who would jeopardise their good ol' boys' club with increased professional and

educational standards. And again, who can blame them?

Face it, folks. EMS cannot be unified any more than snakes and mice can be

unified. And every attempt will only result in one of them being eaten alive.

Every stakeholder has his own agenda, and that agenda is at odds with the other

stakeholders. Quit wasting time on the matter. It's just not even a logical

thought. Accept that unfortunate fact and move forward from there.

This reminds me of the old Burger King " have it your way " commercial, where the

customer orders a Big Mac without secret sauce, and the Mc s clerk goes

into brain lock-up, unable to function. That is what is happening here in EMS.

This eternal wheel-spinning over this one simple point, and the resultant

failure to move forward, is what is dooming us.

Rob

[Guest guest]

Speaking as someone who is relatively new to the EMS field (just at 4

years), I didn't realize these organizations existed and, if they did, what

purpose they served. I vaguely recall joining a group while at the Texas

EMS conference back in 2004/2005.but never heard anything more from them.

Not sure if I can provide a solution, but I see an huge educational

opportunity for those in school or recently certified to work in Texas.

Toni Crippen, NREMT-I

Pflugerville, TX

From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On

Behalf Of Covington

Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 14:24

To: texasems-l

Subject: Re: Editorial: Texas Legislature should deal with

nurse shortage | Editorials & Opinions | Star-Telegram.com

Jane,

I share in your thoughts and agree with what you are saying here.

What gets me even more than the lack of interest by the general EMS

folks in Texas is the lack of our EMS leaders not wanting to join

together. Why are the EMS Directors, EMS Educators, and Owners of EMS

Services across Texas not interested in joining forces and to be heard

as one voice? They are the ones that are heard in their systems. The

leaders of the EMS services and classrooms have the ability to

influence their staff and students. It is very frustrating to hear

the complaints on this list and out in the field and to then see so

many EMS leaders post and/or lurk, but not come together as one. I

just don't get it! If we could convince a small portion of the

recognized leaders in EMS to support and be active in the only Texas

EMS Association today, can you imagine what that could spark? I know,

you've been there too, it's just too much to ask. There are still

just a few of us left trying to hold on to having a group of folks

band together, but it's a never ending battle when you can't grow that

number of voices. There is so much to do with so few people

interested in helping to do it!

Sincerely and Frustrated too,

Covington, LP, RN

Montgomery, Texas

EMSAT BOD

>

> Yeah it IS too bad. We EMS people continue to shoot ourselves in

> the foot by not being able to pull ourselves together into ONE

> active voice in Texas. We had the opportunity to become a " voice "

> when we had an EMS Association in Texas that was trying to establish

> itself to be that venue. But so many of us waited back in the

> wings, waited to see what would happen with the thought, " If it

> becomes something, I will join. " Well, without those people joining

> then BEFORE it was to become something, it never had the membership

> TO " become something. " And now it appears to be thown to the

> wayside because its effectiveness was never fully established and

> its membership and interest has wained because of the lack of

> interest of EMS in general in Texas. We won't ever get to where the

> nurses are politically. We won't ever have that power. Because we

> don't seem to be able to join together as one group on ANYTHING to

> fight against things that have the potential to dumb us down and put

> us in a little confined box (scope of practice issues that appear to

> be moving forward depsite objections of Texas EMS leaders ) or to

> fight FOR things that would benefit us (more grants, a bigger piece

> of the pie in tobacco and trauma funds, more rights). We do, are

> doing it, and have done it to our collective selves. No one is to

> blame but US. And unless something happens SOON, we are going to

> find ourselves stuffed in the " scope of practice box " , dumbed down,

> and with less political pull and less access to state and federal

> monies than ever.

>

> You know, the Dinosaurs in Texas EMS have been fighting these things

> behind the scenes and publicly for YEARS. Henry Barber, Gene Gandy,

> Ron Haussecker, myself, and MANY, MANY more that I haven't even

> begun to mention. We have fought, and stood up, and tried to be a

> part of what Texas EMS has as a much larger potential. But many of

> these Dinosaurs are retiring, have retired, or have died and their

> voices are quieting. And it appears that there are very few to take

> up the charge and raise their voices stepping up to the plate. I

> was unable to attend the latest GETAC meetings but, from what I have

> been told, it appears that things continue to move toward becoming

> more like every other state even though it means lessening ourselves

> - by adopting the scope of practice. That is just ONE issue that

> appears to be meeting less and less resistance. And that reduction

> in resistance is NOT because the Texas EMS family WANTS it, it is

> because as the Dinosaurs are retiring and dying off there are few

> left who even comprehend the issues or seem to care to fight. There

> are few voices yet who are willing to stand up in front of the

> audience and the committees and say, " Have you READ this CRAP? Have

> you thought about this and how it would change what we currently

> DO? Are you all just little lemmings who will run to the edge of

> the clif and jump off just because you are told to? " Maybe some of

> us more vocal Dinosaurs need to get back on a committee. Would that

> do any good about waking some of you folks up out there? But then

> again, probably not - it didn't inspire people to take up the torch

> to fight for what you want when we were there because when we

> stopped being there and stopped being so vocal, very few DID

> continue to fight the issues.

>

> Ok, I am spent now....

>

> Jane Dinsmore

>

>

>

> To: texasems-l@...

: joby@...

: Sat, 31 Jan

> 2009 05:00:23 -0800Subject: Editorial: Texas

> Legislature should deal with nurse shortage | Editorials & Opinions

> | Star-Telegram.com

>

>

>

> Isn't to bad EMS folks can't get this kind of pull and

clout.http://www.star-telegram.com/242/v-touch/story/1175923.htmlJoby

> BerkleySent from my iPhone

>

>

>

>

>

> __________________________________________________________

> Windows LiveT HotmailR

> more than just e-mail.

>

http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_howi

tworks_012009

>

>

[Guest guest]

You are correct - it is INDEED sad, Dr. B. So much potential, so little

interest. Apathy kills more effectively than drinking and driving.

Jane Dinsmore

To: texasems-l@...: bbledsoe@...: Sat, 31 Jan 2009

11:56:05 -0600Subject: RE: Editorial: Texas Legislature should deal

with nurse shortage | Editorials & Opinions | Star-Telegram.com

Jane:To be honest, I have just about given up. We went through the Texas

EMTAssociation, EMT Association of Texas, and now the EMS Association of

Texas.We even gave things away through EMStock. Hundreds pre-registered and

lessthan 25% actually showed up. GETAC has been relatively ineffective becauseit

has no teeth. It is indeed sad. So be it... E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEPClinical

Professor of Emergency MedicineDirector, EMS FellowshipUniversity of Nevada

School of MedicineAttending Emergency PhysicianUniversity Medical Center of

Southern NevadaLas Vegas, Nevada

_________________________________________________________________

Windows Live™: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect.

http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_explore_012009

[Guest guest]

Thank you for posting, . And I know you have attempted to help pick up the

torch as others have, but it has just not been enough. Thanks for trying.

Jane

To: texasems-l@...: lisawhir@...: Sat, 31 Jan 2009

14:23:40 -0600Subject: Re: Editorial: Texas Legislature should deal

with nurse shortage | Editorials & Opinions | Star-Telegram.com

Jane,I share in your thoughts and agree with what you are saying here. What gets

me even more than the lack of interest by the general EMS folks in Texas is the

lack of our EMS leaders not wanting to join together. Why are the EMS Directors,

EMS Educators, and Owners of EMS Services across Texas not interested in joining

forces and to be heard as one voice? They are the ones that are heard in their

systems. The leaders of the EMS services and classrooms have the ability to

influence their staff and students. It is very frustrating to hear the

complaints on this list and out in the field and to then see so many EMS leaders

post and/or lurk, but not come together as one. I just don't get it! If we could

convince a small portion of the recognized leaders in EMS to support and be

active in the only Texas EMS Association today, can you imagine what that could

spark? I know, you've been there too, it's just too much to ask. There are still

just a few of us left trying to hold on to having a group of folks band

together, but it's a never ending battle when you can't grow that number of

voices. There is so much to do with so few people interested in helping to do

it!Sincerely and Frustrated too, Covington, LP, RNMontgomery, TexasEMSAT

BOD>> Yeah it IS too bad. We

EMS people continue to shoot ourselves in > the foot by not being able to pull

ourselves together into ONE > active voice in Texas. We had the opportunity to

become a " voice " > when we had an EMS Association in Texas that was trying to

establish > itself to be that venue. But so many of us waited back in the >

wings, waited to see what would happen with the thought, " If it > becomes

something, I will join. " Well, without those people joining > then BEFORE it was

to become something, it never had the membership > TO " become something. " And

now it appears to be thown to the > wayside because its effectiveness was never

fully established and > its membership and interest has wained because of the

lack of > interest of EMS in general in Texas. We won't ever get to where the >

nurses are politically. We won't ever have that power. Because we > don't seem

to be able to join together as one group on ANYTHING to > fight against things

that have the potential to dumb us down and put > us in a little confined box

(scope of practice issues that appear to > be moving forward depsite objections

of Texas EMS leaders ) or to > fight FOR things that would benefit us (more

grants, a bigger piece > of the pie in tobacco and trauma funds, more rights).

We do, are > doing it, and have done it to our collective selves. No one is to >

blame but US. And unless something happens SOON, we are going to > find

ourselves stuffed in the " scope of practice box " , dumbed down, > and with less

political pull and less access to state and federal > monies than ever.>> You

know, the Dinosaurs in Texas EMS have been fighting these things > behind the

scenes and publicly for YEARS. Henry Barber, Gene Gandy, > Ron Haussecker,

myself, and MANY, MANY more that I haven't even > begun to mention. We have

fought, and stood up, and tried to be a > part of what Texas EMS has as a much

larger potential. But many of > these Dinosaurs are retiring, have retired, or

have died and their > voices are quieting. And it appears that there are very

few to take > up the charge and raise their voices stepping up to the plate. I >

was unable to attend the latest GETAC meetings but, from what I have > been

told, it appears that things continue to move toward becoming > more like every

other state even though it means lessening ourselves > - by adopting the scope

of practice. That is just ONE issue that > appears to be meeting less and less

resistance. And that reduction > in resistance is NOT because the Texas EMS

family WANTS it, it is > because as the Dinosaurs are retiring and dying off

there are few > left who even comprehend the issues or seem to care to fight.

There > are few voices yet who are willing to stand up in front of the >

audience and the committees and say, " Have you READ this CRAP? Have > you

thought about this and how it would change what we currently > DO? Are you all

just little lemmings who will run to the edge of > the clif and jump off just

because you are told to? " Maybe some of > us more vocal Dinosaurs need to get

back on a committee. Would that > do any good about waking some of you folks up

out there? But then > again, probably not - it didn't inspire people to take up

the torch > to fight for what you want when we were there because when we >

stopped being there and stopped being so vocal, very few DID > continue to fight

the issues.>> Ok, I am spent now....>> Jane Dinsmore>>>> To:

texasems-l@...: joby@...: Sat, 31 Jan > 2009 05:00:23

-0800Subject: Editorial: Texas > Legislature should deal with nurse

shortage | Editorials & Opinions > | Star-Telegram.com>>>> Isn't to bad EMS

folks can't get this kind of pull and

clout.http://www.star-telegram.com/242/v-touch/story/1175923.htmlJoby >

BerkleySent from my iPhone>>>>>>

__________________________________________________________> Windows Live™

Hotmail®> more than just e-mail.>

http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_howitwor\

ks_012009>>

[Guest guest]

Sir, do you want fffffffffries with that????? "

Jane Dinsmore

To: texasems-l@...: rob.davis@...: Sat, 31

Jan 2009 14:56:57 -0600Subject: RE: Editorial: Texas Legislature

should deal with nurse shortage | Editorials & Opinions | Star-Telegram.com

On Saturday, January 31, 2009 11:56, " Bledsoe " bbledsoe@...>

said:> To be honest, I have just about given up.I have given up. In fact, I gave

up at least a decade ago. And honestly, I fail to see why so many people

continue chasing this pipe dream of unity in EMS. It is not ever going to

happen. Not even the slightest chance.The fire chief's are not now, and will not

ever be interested in joining forces to promote the interests of private EMS

enterprise, or non-EMS transfer services. They are quite content with the IAFC,

IAFF, and NFPA talking for them, keeping their own interests at the forefront

without getting bogged down in commercial politics. Who can blame them?The

volunteers certainly aren't going to join forces with those professionals who

would jeopardise their good ol' boys' club with increased professional and

educational standards. And again, who can blame them?Face it, folks. EMS cannot

be unified any more than snakes and mice can be unified. And every attempt will

only result in one of them being eaten alive. Every stakeholder has his own

agenda, and that agenda is at odds with the other stakeholders. Quit wasting

time on the matter. It's just not even a logical thought. Accept that

unfortunate fact and move forward from there.This reminds me of the old Burger

King " have it your way " commercial, where the customer orders a Big Mac without

secret sauce, and the Mc s clerk goes into brain lock-up, unable to

function. That is what is happening here in EMS. This eternal wheel-spinning

over this one simple point, and the resultant failure to move forward, is what

is dooming us.Rob

_________________________________________________________________

Windows Live™ Hotmail®:…more than just e-mail.

http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_explore_012\

009

[Guest guest]

,

While your observations are very true, you must realize that part of the

reason why we don't see that unified efforts between the EMS community and

the service owners and directors is mainly because a large majority of those

owners and directors have very different agendas when it comes to most of

the struggles I have observed over the past 28 years in this profession.

Owners and Directors are motivated by profit and growth. They are less

concerned with the establishment of a organized and motivated EMS workforce,

because such a reality could potentially challenge their primary motivator.

I don't see the efforts of EMSAT, or any of the other organizations

dedicated to the goal of unifying and advancing this profession, has futile

or unsuccessful. We are always comparing ourselves to the solidarity of the

Fire or Nursing communities. But we have to remember that both of these

professions have been around for a good many years before EMS come along.

I'm sure that each of these communities faced many of the same challenges

that we in the EMS world have been going through. Does anyone actually

believe that the unity we so admire in these two groups " just happened " ?

There's probably just no one around that remembers the struggles they had to

endure to get to where they are at today.

Those of us who have been fighting for that unified voice for all these

years haven't given up that fight. There are times that may cause us

frustration and at times even disgust, but people who are truly committed to

a cause always find themselves a reason to continue their efforts. The

important thing to remember is that the changes we all seek will occur. It's

just a matter of when those changes will occur. I doubt very seriously that

they will occur with the breakneck speed we wished they would.

But don't be frustrated by the complaints you read here or hear in the

field. These complaints are what will act to motivate our future leaders,

those who will continue the struggle to further that goal.

Thom Seeber, CCEMT-P

Editorial: Texas

> Legislature should deal with nurse shortage | Editorials & Opinions

> | Star-Telegram.com

>

>

>

> Isn't to bad EMS folks can't get this kind of pull and

clout.http://www.star-telegram.com/242/v-touch/story/1175923.htmlJoby

> BerkleySent from my iPhone

>

>

>

>

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Windows LiveT HotmailR

> more than just e-mail.

>

http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_howi

tworks_012009

>

>

[Guest guest]

Tom,

I agree with your assessment that Owners and Directors are motivated

by profit and growth. I think that is the fundamental difference

between the EMS profession and the other professions mentioned and why

we can't get unified. You are also right about EMS being a young

profession compared to Fire and Nursing. I encourage you to go to the

link below from the Texas Nursing Association. It provides a great

timeline of their history as an association and what they have

accomplished so far. You may be surprised how quickly they made

things happen. I'm not frustrated by people complaining. I am

frustrated by those people who are complaining, but yet not doing

anything to help influence change.

Here's the link:

http://www.texasnurses.org/displaycommon.cfm?an=1&subarticlenbr=11

Thanks for your response,

> ,

>

> While your observations are very true, you must realize that part of

> the

> reason why we don't see that unified efforts between the EMS

> community and

> the service owners and directors is mainly because a large majority

> of those

> owners and directors have very different agendas when it comes to

> most of

> the struggles I have observed over the past 28 years in this

> profession.

> Owners and Directors are motivated by profit and growth. They are less

> concerned with the establishment of a organized and motivated EMS

> workforce,

> because such a reality could potentially challenge their primary

> motivator.

>

> I don't see the efforts of EMSAT, or any of the other organizations

> dedicated to the goal of unifying and advancing this profession, has

> futile

> or unsuccessful. We are always comparing ourselves to the solidarity

> of the

> Fire or Nursing communities. But we have to remember that both of

> these

> professions have been around for a good many years before EMS come

> along.

> I'm sure that each of these communities faced many of the same

> challenges

> that we in the EMS world have been going through. Does anyone actually

> believe that the unity we so admire in these two groups " just

> happened " ?

> There's probably just no one around that remembers the struggles

> they had to

> endure to get to where they are at today.

>

> Those of us who have been fighting for that unified voice for all

> these

> years haven't given up that fight. There are times that may cause us

> frustration and at times even disgust, but people who are truly

> committed to

> a cause always find themselves a reason to continue their efforts. The

> important thing to remember is that the changes we all seek will

> occur. It's

> just a matter of when those changes will occur. I doubt very

> seriously that

> they will occur with the breakneck speed we wished they would.

>

> But don't be frustrated by the complaints you read here or hear in the

> field. These complaints are what will act to motivate our future

> leaders,

> those who will continue the struggle to further that goal.

>

> Thom Seeber, CCEMT-P

>

> Editorial: Texas

> > Legislature should deal with nurse shortage | Editorials & Opinions

> > | Star-Telegram.com

> >

> >

> >

> > Isn't to bad EMS folks can't get this kind of pull and

> clout.http://www.star-telegram.com/242/v-touch/story/1175923.htmlJoby

> > BerkleySent from my iPhone

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > __________________________________________________________

> > Windows LiveT HotmailR

> > more than just e-mail.

> >

> http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_howi

> tworks_012009

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Amen, , Amen. LOL

Jane Dinsmore

To: texasems-l@...: lisawhir@...: Sun, 1 Feb 2009

12:43:31 -0600Subject: Re: Editorial: Texas Legislature should deal

with nurse shortage | Editorials & Opinions | Star-Telegram.com

Tom,I agree with your assessment that Owners and Directors are motivated by

profit and growth. I think that is the fundamental difference between the EMS

profession and the other professions mentioned and why we can't get unified. You

are also right about EMS being a young profession compared to Fire and Nursing.

I encourage you to go to the link below from the Texas Nursing Association. It

provides a great timeline of their history as an association and what they have

accomplished so far. You may be surprised how quickly they made things happen.

I'm not frustrated by people complaining. I am frustrated by those people who

are complaining, but yet not doing anything to help influence change.Here's the

link: http://www.texasnurses.org/displaycommon.cfm?an=1&subarticlenbr=11Thanks

for your response,> ,>>

While your observations are very true, you must realize that part of > the>

reason why we don't see that unified efforts between the EMS > community and>

the service owners and directors is mainly because a large majority > of those>

owners and directors have very different agendas when it comes to > most of> the

struggles I have observed over the past 28 years in this > profession.> Owners

and Directors are motivated by profit and growth. They are less> concerned with

the establishment of a organized and motivated EMS > workforce,> because such a

reality could potentially challenge their primary > motivator.>> I don't see the

efforts of EMSAT, or any of the other organizations> dedicated to the goal of

unifying and advancing this profession, has > futile> or unsuccessful. We are

always comparing ourselves to the solidarity > of the> Fire or Nursing

communities. But we have to remember that both of > these> professions have been

around for a good many years before EMS come > along.> I'm sure that each of

these communities faced many of the same > challenges> that we in the EMS world

have been going through. Does anyone actually> believe that the unity we so

admire in these two groups " just > happened " ?> There's probably just no one

around that remembers the struggles > they had to> endure to get to where they

are at today.>> Those of us who have been fighting for that unified voice for

all > these> years haven't given up that fight. There are times that may cause

us> frustration and at times even disgust, but people who are truly > committed

to> a cause always find themselves a reason to continue their efforts. The>

important thing to remember is that the changes we all seek will > occur. It's>

just a matter of when those changes will occur. I doubt very > seriously that>

they will occur with the breakneck speed we wished they would.>> But don't be

frustrated by the complaints you read here or hear in the> field. These

complaints are what will act to motivate our future > leaders,> those who will

continue the struggle to further that goal.>> Thom Seeber, CCEMT-P>>

Editorial: Texas> > Legislature should deal

with nurse shortage | Editorials & Opinions> > | Star-Telegram.com> >> >> >> >

Isn't to bad EMS folks can't get this kind of pull and>

clout.http://www.star-telegram.com/242/v-touch/story/1175923.htmlJoby> >

BerkleySent from my iPhone> >> >> >> >> >> >

__________________________________________________________> > Windows LiveT

HotmailR> > more than just e-mail.> >>

http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_howi>

tworks_012009> >> >

[Guest guest]

NAEMT has somebody who lobbies, I believe.

On the subject of " Profits and Growth " vs. all other things, when I see that

I translate: Management v. labor.

I think that's what's really in the minds of those who make those

distinctions. It is true that the interests of management and labor do not

always

coincide completely, but good management recognizes that a satisfied and well

treated workforce is its finest asset. Good labor recognizes that unless

management is able to make a profit, it won't have a job to go to.

So the two are not as far apart as it might seem.

I did labor law for a long time, and the one thing I learned was that the

best managed companies seldom had any labor problems at all. On the other

hand,

poorly managed companies had continuous problems with the workforce and

unions.

There are a number of ways to describe management styles, Theory X and Theory

Y being two of the older ones, developed by McGregor at MIT in the

1960's based on Maslow's hierarchy of human needs.

Theory X assumes that employees are basically lazy and will avoid work unless

prodded. This is the old General Motors type of management. Theory Y

assumes that workers will want to work if given incentives and an opportunity to

succeed. This is the Japanese style of management.

Theory X and Y combined make up a lot of current management, although there

are many variations.

If one wants to see the results the different approaches produce one has only

to look at the automobile industry. The US industry engaged in Theory X

management for a long time. This led to the growth of very powerful unions.

Productivity was not optimized by this system. On the other hand, the

Japanese car makers and other manufacturers, through the work of Deming and

others,

recognized that job security and happiness in the workforce produces a better

product and improves overall productivity. Now we see the results.

EMS still has too many Theory X managers although one does see some break out

of the mold. But most EMS managers rose through the ranks and lack formal

training in management or much formal education for that matter. So for many

of them The Principle kicked in early, but instead of improving their

management styles they were simply promoted to a higher level of management.

Today, in the auto industry, the car makers have one set of lobbyists seeking

to accomplish one set of legislative goals while labor has its set of

lobbyists trying to achieve another set of goals that sometimes conflict with

those

of management. Neither is thinking about the big picture.

Today we have a fragmented EMS structure. We have much government

regulation, but at the national level we are orphans. There is no agency that

begins

with " Emergency Medical Services " at the national level. DOT and NHTSA and

NFPA jockey for position over control of EMS policies at the national level,

and NAEMT and NAEMSE, through contracts with NHTSA and DOT develop things like

The EMS Agenda for the Future and Education Standards largely without much

input from rank and file EMS providers.

How does this happen? As has been the subject of these posts, EMS can't get

its act together as a group. Therefore, those few who do become involved

tend to be chosen over and over to serve on the committees that develop these

things. Because of that, these groups tend toward elite status, and it becomes

hard for " outsiders " to get in. EMS is like everything else. Networking

is the webbing that holds things together and makes it work, so those on the

inside of these organizations tend to stay there. That is not to say that new

blood cannot find its way in, but it takes a long time, and it costs a ton of

money, since there is generally lots of travel to attend meetings, sometimes

unreimbursed.

EMSAT, for example, required travel to Austin at least 4 times a year for an

overnight stay, and more often if one tried to attend legislative hearings and

testify, meet with representatives and senators, and so forth. I finally

had to stop doing it. Couldn't afford it.

This limits most of us. Those who work for organizations that will send

them to these meetings tend to be the ones who end up belonging to the

committees. Therefore, if you work for a university or a big department, you

can play,

but if you don't, it's hard to play unless you have money to spend of your

own.

Now, I'm not trying to justify any of this, just explain it. With, as

somebody said, the advent of instant communication, there's no excuse for people

not at least staying aware of changes and lurking rattlesnakes, but few choose

to make those few key strokes that allow one to see what's happening.

I require my students to join both the paramedicine list and the EMS-L list,

and even though we're in AZ, I also encourage them to join the Texas list

because so much good information is passed here. Perhaps other educators might

consider doing the same thing.

Somehow we have to get folks interested in driving the EMS bus. So far we

have not.

GG

>

> Spot on Dave!!!? On a national level, the American Ambulance Association has

> a PAC as well as a group of people who work in DC to address issues with the

> national congress...

>

> Dudley

>

> Editorial: Texas

> > > > Legislature should deal with nurse shortage | Editorials &

> Opinions

> > > > | Star-Telegram. | S

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Isn't to bad EMS folks can't get this kind of pull and

> > > clout.http:/clout.httpclout.httclout.http

> touch/story/ touch/story/

> > > BerkleySent from my iPhone

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >___________________________________________________________

> > > > Windows LiveT HotmailR

> > > > more than just e-mail.

> > > >

> > > http://windowslive.http://windowsl

> ocid=TXT_TAGLM_ ocid=TXT ocid=TXT_TAGL ocid

> > > tworks_012009

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Let me help spread the seeds of dissension...why is it that everytime people

start talking about owners and directors, we bring up PROFIT and GROWTH like it

is a bad thing??

Let me add some points.? First of all, profit and growth is not a fundamental

difference between EMS and FD and Hospitals.? Find me any hospital that IS NOT

concerned about profit...and growth.? There are some...but their doors and

windows are boarded up and nobody works there.?

Show me a FD that isn't concerned with growth and profits (oh I'm

sorry...reserves).? I don't know of too many FD's that are petitioning their

city councils to reduce staffing or close stations.? Even in these economic

times...we need more firefighters and?stations?even in tough economic times.

Now...show me a paramedic or EMT who does this work for money who isn't

concerned about Profit and Growth.? Every other?week on payday...profit is a

good thing (although too many of us never actually realize a profit due to high

expenses in our personal lives)...and growth.? Who wants to work for the same

wages in 24 months that you are working for now???

No...profit and growth are not to blame for the lack of? " unity " and lack of

involvement.? They are the primary reasons that motivate those who are trying to

do this work in my humble opinion.???

Now, I will state that I agree with a number of things said in this thread.? I

do think that we need to move past total unity and work to achieve unity in our

smaller sub-groups.? Then, when a group has an idea for improvement, if it just

affects the group that wants the change....no problem...if it affects the

industry as a whole the smaller group then sells its idea to the other groups.?

Our FD colleagues are divided amongst leaders and line personnel and between

paid and volunteer.? We could very well do that as well.? FD based EMS,

Municipal based, Private, paid, volunteer, county...etc.? We are too diverse in

this state, in this country, and in this profession to try and think that any

single group can adequately represent the total EMS voice in this state.?

Lastly, what ever group(s) form, we have to answer the fundamental question to

attract members... " What's in it for me? " ? We cannot expect folks who are fat and

happy (or somewhat happy) to spend money (especially in today's environment)

because we promise to do something for you at some time in the future...

To be honest, this is one of the things that led me to join the Texas Ambulance

Association and the American Ambulance Association.? Both of these organizations

have accomplished legislation that makes my agency able to collect more money

plus they both offer services that I need as an EMS agency head...namely

AMBULANCE specific legal services.? The money I spend on these organizations is

awfully small when I can call the national expert in Medicare and Medicaid

ambulance billing. That single answer to a single question is much more valuable

than any fees these organizations could charge me.?

So, EMSAT, TFFA, IAFF, whatever....lets find some voices (or make some) that can

help us in our own places and not get too hung up just yet that we all don't

share the same clubhouse.? That day will come...I predict....but we can't wait

for it...we need to start moving forward now however we can.

Dudley

Editorial: Texas

> > Legislature should deal with nurse shortage | Editorials & Opinions

> > | Star-Telegram.com

> >

> >

> >

> > Isn't to bad EMS folks can't get this kind of pull and

> clout.http://www.star-telegram.com/242/v-touch/story/1175923.htmlJoby

> > BerkleySent from my iPhone

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > __________________________________________________________

> > Windows LiveT HotmailR

> > more than just e-mail.

> >

> http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_howi

> tworks_012009

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Just out of curiosity, does EMS have a PAC that lobbies on it behalf

for legislative purposes?

> >

> > >

> > > Yeah it IS too bad. We EMS people continue to shoot ourselves in

> > > the foot by not being able to pull ourselves together into ONE

> > > active voice in Texas. We had the opportunity to become

a " voice "

> > > when we had an EMS Association in Texas that was trying to

establish

> > > itself to be that venue. But so many of us waited back in the

> > > wings, waited to see what would happen with the thought, " If it

> > > becomes something, I will join. " Well, without those people

joining

> > > then BEFORE it was to become something, it never had the

membership

> > > TO " become something. " And now it appears to be thown to the

> > > wayside because its effectiveness was never fully established

and

> > > its membership and interest has wained because of the lack of

> > > interest of EMS in general in Texas. We won't ever get to where

the

> > > nurses are politically. We won't ever have that power. Because

we

> > > don't seem to be able to join together as one group on ANYTHING

to

> > > fight against things that have the potential to dumb us down

and put

> > > us in a little confined box (scope of practice issues that

appear to

> > > be moving forward depsite objections of Texas EMS leaders ) or

to

> > > fight FOR things that would benefit us (more grants, a bigger

piece

> > > of the pie in tobacco and trauma funds, more rights). We do, are

> > > doing it, and have done it to our collective selves. No one is

to

> > > blame but US. And unless something happens SOON, we are going to

> > > find ourselves stuffed in the " scope of practice box " , dumbed

down,

> > > and with less political pull and less access to state and

federal

> > > monies than ever.

> > >

> > > You know, the Dinosaurs in Texas EMS have been fighting these

things

> > > behind the scenes and publicly for YEARS. Henry Barber, Gene

Gandy,

> > > Ron Haussecker, myself, and MANY, MANY more that I haven't even

> > > begun to mention. We have fought, and stood up, and tried to be

a

> > > part of what Texas EMS has as a much larger potential. But many

of

> > > these Dinosaurs are retiring, have retired, or have died and

their

> > > voices are quieting. And it appears that there are very few to

take

> > > up the charge and raise their voices stepping up to the plate. I

> > > was unable to attend the latest GETAC meetings but, from what I

have

> > > been told, it appears that things continue to move toward

becoming

> > > more like every other state even though it means lessening

ourselves

> > > - by adopting the scope of practice. That is just ONE issue that

> > > appears to be meeting less and less resistance. And that

reduction

> > > in resistance is NOT because the Texas EMS family WANTS it, it

is

> > > because as the Dinosaurs are retiring and dying off there are

few

> > > left who even comprehend the issues or seem to care to fight.

There

> > > are few voices yet who are willing to stand up in front of the

> > > audience and the committees and say, " Have you READ this CRAP?

Have

> > > you thought about this and how it would change what we currently

> > > DO? Are you all just little lemmings who will run to the edge of

> > > the clif and jump off just because you are told to? " Maybe some

of

> > > us more vocal Dinosaurs need to get back on a committee. Would

that

> > > do any good about waking some of you folks up out there? But

then

> > > again, probably not - it didn't inspire people to take up the

torch

> > > to fight for what you want when we were there because when we

> > > stopped being there and stopped being so vocal, very few DID

> > > continue to fight the issues.

> > >

> > > Ok, I am spent now....

> > >

> > > Jane Dinsmore

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > To: texasems-l@...: joby@...: Sat, 31 Jan

> > > 2009 05:00:23 -0800Subject: Editorial: Texas

> > > Legislature should deal with nurse shortage | Editorials &

Opinions

> > > | Star-Telegram.com

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Isn't to bad EMS folks can't get this kind of pull and

> > clout.http://www.star-telegram.com/242/v-

touch/story/1175923.htmlJoby

> > > BerkleySent from my iPhone

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > __________________________________________________________

> > > Windows LiveT HotmailR

> > > more than just e-mail.

> > >

> > http://windowslive.com/howitworks?

ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_howi

> > tworks_012009

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

I don't know of an " EMS " lobbyist representing the industry. The Texas Ambulance

Assoc. has a lobbyist and when a bunch of us founded EMSAT we had a lobbyist but

a good lobbyist can be expensive and I don't know the financial status of EMSAT

these days and if they are able to support the cost. A lobbyist can open the

doors for you but you still have to have a membership that is willing to go

through the doors with the lobbyist. Too many people think that all you have to

do is hire a lobbyist and stuff magically happens without any further

involvement from the Association. Oh if that were only the case..... Lobbyists

are great but they create more work rather than less because once they get the

attention of a legislator someone has to go sell the idea and testify as to why

the change is needed.

Sorry I guess that was a long winded way to answer your question.

Dave

Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

Editorial: Texas

> > > Legislature should deal with nurse shortage | Editorials &

Opinions

> > > | Star-Telegram.com

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Isn't to bad EMS folks can't get this kind of pull and

> > clout.http://www.star-telegram.com/242/v-

touch/story/1175923.htmlJoby

> > > BerkleySent from my iPhone

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >__________________________________________________________

> > > Windows LiveT HotmailR

> > > more than just e-mail.

> > >

> > http://windowslive.com/howitworks?

ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_howi

> > tworks_012009

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Spot on Dave!!!? On a national level, the American Ambulance Association has a

PAC as well as a group of people who work in DC to address issues with the

national congress...

Dudley

Editorial: Texas

> > > Legislature should deal with nurse shortage | Editorials &

Opinions

> > > | Star-Telegram.com

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Isn't to bad EMS folks can't get this kind of pull and

> > clout.http://www.star-telegram.com/242/v-

touch/story/1175923.htmlJoby

> > > BerkleySent from my iPhone

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >__________________________________________________________

> > > Windows LiveT HotmailR

> > > more than just e-mail.

> > >

> > http://windowslive.com/howitworks?

ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_howi

> > tworks_012009

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

No need for apologies, for I am all too familiar with them myself

which is why I was asking I'm with you on needing the support of

industry professionals to back the lobbyist. For instance, within

the Texas Association of Realtors (TAR) we have a LMT (Legislative

Management Team) within the TREPAC that is comprised of Realtors that

support our lobbyists. To finance the cost of this, we pay approx

$35/yr when we pay our association dues. Now of course this is not

mandatory but is highly recommended. How many certified/licensed

emergency professionals are there currently in Texas (all levels)?

A sidenote: one of the major accomplishments that was spearheaded by

TREPAC and eventually went on to benefit some medical professionals

was Proposition 6 in 2007. Prop 6 was a state constitutional

amendment that prevents the taxation of personal vehicles for

independent contractors so if you do side work in EMS or do any kind

of 1099 work, at one point you were a target of the local tax

assessor's office to pay a property tax on your vehicle. That is no

longer a cause for concern thanks to the power of PACs.

> > >

> > > >

> > > > Yeah it IS too bad. We EMS people continue to shoot ourselves

in

> > > > the foot by not being able to pull ourselves together into ONE

> > > > active voice in Texas. We had the opportunity to become

> a " voice "

> > > > when we had an EMS Association in Texas that was trying to

> establish

> > > > itself to be that venue. But so many of us waited back in the

> > > > wings, waited to see what would happen with the thought, " If

it

> > > > becomes something, I will join. " Well, without those people

> joining

> > > > then BEFORE it was to become something, it never had the

> membership

> > > > TO " become something. " And now it appears to be thown to the

> > > > wayside because its effectiveness was never fully established

> and

> > > > its membership and interest has wained because of the lack of

> > > > interest of EMS in general in Texas. We won't ever get to

where

> the

> > > > nurses are politically. We won't ever have that power.

Because

> we

> > > > don't seem to be able to join together as one group on

ANYTHING

> to

> > > > fight against things that have the potential to dumb us down

> and put

> > > > us in a little confined box (scope of practice issues that

> appear to

> > > > be moving forward depsite objections of Texas EMS leaders )

or

> to

> > > > fight FOR things that would benefit us (more grants, a bigger

> piece

> > > > of the pie in tobacco and trauma funds, more rights). We do,

are

> > > > doing it, and have done it to our collective selves. No one

is

> to

> > > > blame but US. And unless something happens SOON, we are going

to

> > > > find ourselves stuffed in the " scope of practice box " , dumbed

> down,

> > > > and with less political pull and less access to state and

> federal

> > > > monies than ever.

> > > >

> > > > You know, the Dinosaurs in Texas EMS have been fighting these

> things

> > > > behind the scenes and publicly for YEARS. Henry Barber, Gene

> Gandy,

> > > > Ron Haussecker, myself, and MANY, MANY more that I haven't

even

> > > > begun to mention. We have fought, and stood up, and tried to

be

> a

> > > > part of what Texas EMS has as a much larger potential. But

many

> of

> > > > these Dinosaurs are retiring, have retired, or have died and

> their

> > > > voices are quieting. And it appears that there are very few

to

> take

> > > > up the charge and raise their voices stepping up to the

plate. I

> > > > was unable to attend the latest GETAC meetings but, from what

I

> have

> > > > been told, it appears that things continue to move toward

> becoming

> > > > more like every other state even though it means lessening

> ourselves

> > > > - by adopting the scope of practice. That is just ONE issue

that

> > > > appears to be meeting less and less resistance. And that

> reduction

> > > > in resistance is NOT because the Texas EMS family WANTS it,

it

> is

> > > > because as the Dinosaurs are retiring and dying off there are

> few

> > > > left who even comprehend the issues or seem to care to fight.

> There

> > > > are few voices yet who are willing to stand up in front of the

> > > > audience and the committees and say, " Have you READ this

CRAP?

> Have

> > > > you thought about this and how it would change what we

currently

> > > > DO? Are you all just little lemmings who will run to the edge

of

> > > > the clif and jump off just because you are told to? " Maybe

some

> of

> > > > us more vocal Dinosaurs need to get back on a committee.

Would

> that

> > > > do any good about waking some of you folks up out there? But

> then

> > > > again, probably not - it didn't inspire people to take up the

> torch

> > > > to fight for what you want when we were there because when we

> > > > stopped being there and stopped being so vocal, very few DID

> > > > continue to fight the issues.

> > > >

> > > > Ok, I am spent now....

> > > >

> > > > Jane Dinsmore

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > To: texasems-l@: joby@: Sat, 31 Jan

> > > > 2009 05:00:23 -0800Subject: Editorial: Texas

> > > > Legislature should deal with nurse shortage | Editorials &

> Opinions

> > > > | Star-Telegram.com

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Isn't to bad EMS folks can't get this kind of pull and

> > > clout.http://www.star-telegram.com/242/v-

> touch/story/1175923.htmlJoby

> > > > BerkleySent from my iPhone

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >__________________________________________________________

> > > > Windows LiveT HotmailR

> > > > more than just e-mail.

> > > >

> > > http://windowslive.com/howitworks?

> ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_howi

> > > tworks_012009

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

“I require my students to join both the paramedicine list and the EMS-L list,

and even though we're in AZ, I also encourage them to join the Texas list

because so much good information is passed here. Perhaps other educators might

consider doing the same thing. GGâ€

Gene, bravo. But, I think here-in lies part of the problem. Other educators do

not do this.

As I mentioned before, I’ve been an EMT for 4 years and am currently in to my

3rd of 5 semesters of paramedic training. During that time, no one has ever

mentioned or encouraged any associations…not even my educators. If it

weren’t for Wes Ogilvie, I wouldn’t know that this list serve exists. In

the 6 months or so that I’ve been sitting here, I have learned much. And,

even more exciting, I can occasionally keep up.

I say all that to say…there is an education element missing…at least in my 3

separate schools (ECA, EMT-B, EMT-I to P) with I don’t know how many different

instructors.

I would love to see the EMS world come together as a single voice. I would love

to know that we are all paid accordingly for our skills which would be more than

the Whataburger guy makes per hour. I would love to know if I crossed the

border, that my skills would be viewed the same (or better) than the next guy

because the training is the same. I would love it if we could all play nicely

in our big sandbox and recognize that regardless of what capacity we serve (911

vs. transfer vs. volunteer), we are all professionals.

So, I for one will take a next step in the education of fellow students. As an

officer on the ACC EMS Student’s Association, I will let our student’s know

about the EMS associations. I also work with several different organizations

and can spread the word there. And, I have just joined NAEMT.

Now, what else can I do?

Toni

From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On Behalf

Of wegandy1938@...

Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 23:56

To: texasems-l

Subject: Re: Re: Editorial: Texas Legislature should deal with

nurse shortage | Editorials & Opinions | Star-Telegram.com

NAEMT has somebody who lobbies, I believe.

On the subject of " Profits and Growth " vs. all other things, when I see that

I translate: Management v. labor.

I think that's what's really in the minds of those who make those

distinctions. It is true that the interests of management and labor do not

always

coincide completely, but good management recognizes that a satisfied and well

treated workforce is its finest asset. Good labor recognizes that unless

management is able to make a profit, it won't have a job to go to.

So the two are not as far apart as it might seem.

I did labor law for a long time, and the one thing I learned was that the

best managed companies seldom had any labor problems at all. On the other hand,

poorly managed companies had continuous problems with the workforce and

unions.

There are a number of ways to describe management styles, Theory X and Theory

Y being two of the older ones, developed by McGregor at MIT in the

1960's based on Maslow's hierarchy of human needs.

Theory X assumes that employees are basically lazy and will avoid work unless

prodded. This is the old General Motors type of management. Theory Y

assumes that workers will want to work if given incentives and an opportunity to

succeed. This is the Japanese style of management.

Theory X and Y combined make up a lot of current management, although there

are many variations.

If one wants to see the results the different approaches produce one has only

to look at the automobile industry. The US industry engaged in Theory X

management for a long time. This led to the growth of very powerful unions.

Productivity was not optimized by this system. On the other hand, the

Japanese car makers and other manufacturers, through the work of Deming and

others,

recognized that job security and happiness in the workforce produces a better

product and improves overall productivity. Now we see the results.

EMS still has too many Theory X managers although one does see some break out

of the mold. But most EMS managers rose through the ranks and lack formal

training in management or much formal education for that matter. So for many

of them The Principle kicked in early, but instead of improving their

management styles they were simply promoted to a higher level of management.

Today, in the auto industry, the car makers have one set of lobbyists seeking

to accomplish one set of legislative goals while labor has its set of

lobbyists trying to achieve another set of goals that sometimes conflict with

those

of management. Neither is thinking about the big picture.

Today we have a fragmented EMS structure. We have much government

regulation, but at the national level we are orphans. There is no agency that

begins

with " Emergency Medical Services " at the national level. DOT and NHTSA and

NFPA jockey for position over control of EMS policies at the national level,

and NAEMT and NAEMSE, through contracts with NHTSA and DOT develop things like

The EMS Agenda for the Future and Education Standards largely without much

input from rank and file EMS providers.

How does this happen? As has been the subject of these posts, EMS can't get

its act together as a group. Therefore, those few who do become involved

tend to be chosen over and over to serve on the committees that develop these

things. Because of that, these groups tend toward elite status, and it becomes

hard for " outsiders " to get in. EMS is like everything else. Networking

is the webbing that holds things together and makes it work, so those on the

inside of these organizations tend to stay there. That is not to say that new

blood cannot find its way in, but it takes a long time, and it costs a ton of

money, since there is generally lots of travel to attend meetings, sometimes

unreimbursed.

EMSAT, for example, required travel to Austin at least 4 times a year for an

overnight stay, and more often if one tried to attend legislative hearings and

testify, meet with representatives and senators, and so forth. I finally

had to stop doing it. Couldn't afford it.

This limits most of us. Those who work for organizations that will send

them to these meetings tend to be the ones who end up belonging to the

committees. Therefore, if you work for a university or a big department, you can

play,

but if you don't, it's hard to play unless you have money to spend of your

own.

Now, I'm not trying to justify any of this, just explain it. With, as

somebody said, the advent of instant communication, there's no excuse for people

not at least staying aware of changes and lurking rattlesnakes, but few choose

to make those few key strokes that allow one to see what's happening.

I require my students to join both the paramedicine list and the EMS-L list,

and even though we're in AZ, I also encourage them to join the Texas list

because so much good information is passed here. Perhaps other educators might

consider doing the same thing.

Somehow we have to get folks interested in driving the EMS bus. So far we

have not.

GG

In a message dated 2/1/09 10:10:53 PM, THEDUDMAN@...

writes:

>

> Spot on Dave!!!? On a national level, the American Ambulance Association has

> a PAC as well as a group of people who work in DC to address issues with the

> national congress...

>

> Dudley

>

> Editorial: Texas

> > > > Legislature should deal with nurse shortage | Editorials &

> Opinions

> > > > | Star-Telegram. | S

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Isn't to bad EMS folks can't get this kind of pull and

> > > clout.http:/clout.httpclout.httclout.http

> touch/story/ touch/story/

> > > BerkleySent from my iPhone

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >__________________________________________________________

> > > > Windows LiveT HotmailR

> > > > more than just e-mail.

> > > >

> > > http://windowslive.http://windowsl http://windowslive.http:/windowsl>

> ocid=TXT_TAGLM_ ocid=TXT ocid=TXT_TAGL ocid

> > > tworks_012009

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Toni,

That's a good start. I encourage the other EMS educators on here to do the

same thing. Offer extra credit to your students if they will join the lists

and participate.

GG

>

> “I require my students to join both the paramedicine list and the EMS-L

> list,

> and even though we're in AZ, I also encourage them to join the Texas list

> because so much good information is passed here. Perhaps other educators

> might

> consider doing the same thing. GGâ€

>

> Gene, bravo. But, I think here-in lies part of the problem. Other educators

> do not do this.

>

> As I mentioned before, I’ve been an EMT for 4 years and am currently in to

> my 3rd of 5 semesters of paramedic training. During that time, no one has ever

> mentioned or encouraged any associations…not even my educators. If it

weren’

> t for Wes Ogilvie, I wouldn’t know that this list serve exists. In the 6

> months or so that I’ve been sitting here, I have learned much. And, even

more

> exciting, I can occasionally keep up.

>

> I say all that to say…there is an education element missing…at least in my

> 3 separate schools (ECA, EMT-B, EMT-I to P) with I don’t know how many

> different instructors.

>

> I would love to see the EMS world come together as a single voice. I would

> love to know that we are all paid accordingly for our skills which would be

> more than the Whataburger guy makes per hour. I would love to know if I

crossed

> the border, that my skills would be viewed the same (or better) than the

> next guy because the training is the same. I would love it if we could all

play

> nicely in our big sandbox and recognize that regardless of what capacity we

> serve (911 vs. transfer vs. volunteer), we are all professionals.

>

> So, I for one will take a next step in the education of fellow students. As

> an officer on the ACC EMS Student’s Association, I will let our student’s

> know about the EMS associations. I also work with several different

> organizations and can spread the word there. And, I have just joined NAEMT.

>

> Now, what else can I do?

>

> Toni

>

> From: texasems-l@yahoogrotexasem [mailto:texasems-l@yahoogrotexasem] On

> Behalf Of wegandy1938@wegandy

> Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 23:56

> To: texasems-l@yahoogrotexasem

> Subject: Re: Re: Editorial: Texas Legislature should deal with

> nurse shortage | Editorials & Opinions | Star-Telegram. Op

>

> NAEMT has somebody who lobbies, I believe.

>

> On the subject of " Profits and Growth " vs. all other things, when I see that

> I translate: Management v. labor.

>

> I think that's what's really in the minds of those who make those

> distinctions. It is true that the interests of management and labor do not

> always

> coincide completely, but good management recognizes that a satisfied and

> well

> treated workforce is its finest asset. Good labor recognizes that unless

> management is able to make a profit, it won't have a job to go to.

>

> So the two are not as far apart as it might seem.

>

> I did labor law for a long time, and the one thing I learned was that the

> best managed companies seldom had any labor problems at all. On the other

> hand,

> poorly managed companies had continuous problems with the workforce and

> unions.

>

> There are a number of ways to describe management styles, Theory X and

> Theory

> Y being two of the older ones, developed by McGregor at MIT in the

> 1960's based on Maslow's hierarchy of human needs.

>

> Theory X assumes that employees are basically lazy and will avoid work

> unless

> prodded. This is the old General Motors type of management. Theory Y

> assumes that workers will want to work if given incentives and an

> opportunity to

> succeed. This is the Japanese style of management.

>

> Theory X and Y combined make up a lot of current management, although there

> are many variations.

>

> If one wants to see the results the different approaches produce one has

> only

> to look at the automobile industry. The US industry engaged in Theory X

> management for a long time. This led to the growth of very powerful unions.

> Productivity was not optimized by this system. On the other hand, the

> Japanese car makers and other manufacturers, through the work of Deming and

> others,

> recognized that job security and happiness in the workforce produces a

> better

> product and improves overall productivity. Now we see the results.

>

> EMS still has too many Theory X managers although one does see some break

> out

> of the mold. But most EMS managers rose through the ranks and lack formal

> training in management or much formal education for that matter. So for many

> of them The Principle kicked in early, but instead of improving their

> management styles they were simply promoted to a higher level of management.

>

> Today, in the auto industry, the car makers have one set of lobbyists

> seeking

> to accomplish one set of legislative goals while labor has its set of

> lobbyists trying to achieve another set of goals that sometimes conflict

> with those

> of management. Neither is thinking about the big picture.

>

> Today we have a fragmented EMS structure. We have much government

> regulation, but at the national level we are orphans. There is no agency

> that begins

> with " Emergency Medical Services " at the national level. DOT and NHTSA and

> NFPA jockey for position over control of EMS policies at the national level,

> and NAEMT and NAEMSE, through contracts with NHTSA and DOT develop things

> like

> The EMS Agenda for the Future and Education Standards largely without much

> input from rank and file EMS providers.

>

> How does this happen? As has been the subject of these posts, EMS can't get

> its act together as a group. Therefore, those few who do become involved

> tend to be chosen over and over to serve on the committees that develop

> these

> things. Because of that, these groups tend toward elite status, and it

> becomes

> hard for " outsiders " to get in. EMS is like everything else. Networking

> is the webbing that holds things together and makes it work, so those on the

> inside of these organizations tend to stay there. That is not to say that

> new

> blood cannot find its way in, but it takes a long time, and it costs a ton

> of

> money, since there is generally lots of travel to attend meetings, sometimes

> unreimbursed.

>

> EMSAT, for example, required travel to Austin at least 4 times a year for an

> overnight stay, and more often if one tried to attend legislative hearings

> and

> testify, meet with representatives and senators, and so forth. I finally

> had to stop doing it. Couldn't afford it.

>

> This limits most of us. Those who work for organizations that will send

> them to these meetings tend to be the ones who end up belonging to the

> committees. Therefore, if you work for a university or a big department, you

> can play,

> but if you don't, it's hard to play unless you have money to spend of your

> own.

>

> Now, I'm not trying to justify any of this, just explain it. With, as

> somebody said, the advent of instant communication, there's no excuse for

> people

> not at least staying aware of changes and lurking rattlesnakes, but few

> choose

> to make those few key strokes that allow one to see what's happening.

>

> I require my students to join both the paramedicine list and the EMS-L list,

> and even though we're in AZ, I also encourage them to join the Texas list

> because so much good information is passed here. Perhaps other educators

> might

> consider doing the same thing.

>

> Somehow we have to get folks interested in driving the EMS bus. So far we

> have not.

>

> GG

>

> In a message dated 2/1/09 10:10:53 PM, THEDUDMAN@... <

> mailto:THEDUDMAN%mailto:TH> writes:

>

> >

> > Spot on Dave!!!? On a national level, the American Ambulance Association

> has

> > a PAC as well as a group of people who work in DC to address issues with

> the

> > national congress...

> >

> > Dudley

> >

> > Editorial: Texas

> > > > > Legislature should deal with nurse shortage | Editorials &

> > Opinions

> > > > > | Star-Telegram. | S

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Isn't to bad EMS folks can't get this kind of pull and

> > > > clout.http:/ clout.http:/

> touch/story/ touch/story/

> > > > BerkleySent from my iPhone

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >__________________________________________________________

> > > > > Windows LiveT HotmailR

> > > > > more than just e-mail.

> > > > >

> > > > http://windowslive.http://windowsl http://windowslive.http://windows>

> > ocid=TXT_TAGLM_ ocid=TXT ocid=TXT_TAGL ocid

> > > > tworks_012009

> > > > >

> > > > >