Re: IN defense of WW/Mitch

[Guest guest]

Tory,

Don't agree. First off, we'll never know, but I'd be willing to bet that

the majority

of WW calc users were folks who attended meetings or did WW online, who

simply

used this as another tool to replace paper journalling or on-line

journalling when they

were away from home.

Second, WWcalc, once legal action was threatened, was offered to WW for them

to distribute - even charge for, if they wanted. Instead they decided to

leave thousands

of users, most of whom were paying WW either for meetings or online or

buying

their products in the lurch - depriving them of a valuable tool.

I understand that WW needs to protect its' trademarks. But there were

other, more

compassionate ways to handle this. Yes, WW is a business, and, IMHO

they have

multiple goals - make money, protect thier intellectual property, AND l

try to " do the right thing " to

support/service their customers. In this case, their persuit of the

first 2 goals lost them

lots of customers.

BTW, as an aside, WWCalc does not INCLUDE any food lists (although they can

be obtained and used with WWCalc) - minor point, but for the sake of

accuracy.....

Mitch

Tory Klementsen, MCP A+ wrote:

>I can understand why they shut down WWCalc, actually.

>

>Imagine you'd put a lot of time and effort and money into developing a

>program. It works and it attracted people in droves. One of your

>customers decides he can do it on his own. Okay, great. Yeah. Good

>luck to him!

>

>Well he does do it on his own and he decides, out of generosity, to

>share with other people the same plan so they too can stop paying. Who

>would be interested? Online users mainly. Some people would say " Hey,

>why pay when I can get it for free? " stop paying for the program, and

>use this guys program.

>

>It would be one thing if WWCalc just had a way to count points, but

>the latest version included the food companion lists, the eating out

>lists, baby food, etc. I mean it is a cool program and the guy is just

>neat for working on it and sharing it...but even so, it's still

>plagiarism. WWers owned the rights to the program, the books, etc. He

>was incringing upon their rights to make money on the things they

>developed. So I can completely see why they would say " Sorry Dude, you

>can't do that. We own this stuff. " They lost customers to his program

>and that's not really fair to them.

>

>I do think some of their stuff is WAY overpriced, but they charge what

>the market will bear. I've never had the Just 2 Points bars or any of

>their other stuff except what you can get at the grocery store.

>Honestly, I probably wouldn't buy it because I can get Quaker Chewy

>Granola bars for 2 points and from what I've seen, they are a little

>bigger. They are also WAY cheaper!

>

>

>

>

>

>>Hey Mitch,

>>I totally agree with everything you said. I don't mind paying WW for the

>>things they provide, but I do object to their shutting down of WWcalc, and,

>>I often object to the high prices they charge for things like Just2Points

>>bars and smoothie mixes, plastic measuring spoons, etc. They have a good

>>hold on that market and they know it. But oh well, I guess that's capitalism

>>at its best, eh? I like those products, and so I continue to buy them,

>>grumbling all the while I write my checks! LOL!

>>It frankly never occurred to me to consider WW stock or options....I'll have

>>to get my husband to check into it!

>>How are you doing, by the way? Good I hope!

>>Bette

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

> In regards to their food line, I would love to spend my $$ on ww brand

food.

> BUT my dd has a severe food allergies (nuts and peanuts) and I won't allow

> any food in the house that she cannot have. So I called WW and they said

> that NONE of their foods would be safe. Not a single thing. So if they had

> either better manufacturing practices (it can be done, and is done, with

> companies that charge the same or less for their products) or better

> labeling practices (since some of the foods probably never come into

contact

> with foods containing nuts or their equipment) then they would have a

> customer in me. As it is I cannot afford the $$ for weight watcher

meetings

> or online so I am using, and will keep using, wwcalc. i do subscribe to

the

> magazine.

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> Visit my website: http://www.crazystamper.com

> Shop for tupperware: http://my.tupperware.com/galew

> Design team member for http://www.susansscrapbookshack2.com

> Want $25 for free? Open a savings account and get a $25 bonus!! No fees!

>

> .

> Re: IN defense of WW/Mitch

>

>

> >

> > I can understand why they shut down WWCalc, actually.

> >

> > Imagine you'd put a lot of time and effort and money into developing a

> > program. It works and it attracted people in droves. One of your

> > customers decides he can do it on his own. Okay, great. Yeah. Good

> > luck to him!

> >

> > Well he does do it on his own and he decides, out of generosity, to

> > share with other people the same plan so they too can stop paying. Who

> > would be interested? Online users mainly. Some people would say " Hey,

> > why pay when I can get it for free? " stop paying for the program, and

> > use this guys program.

> >

> > It would be one thing if WWCalc just had a way to count points, but

> > the latest version included the food companion lists, the eating out

> > lists, baby food, etc. I mean it is a cool program and the guy is just

> > neat for working on it and sharing it...but even so, it's still

> > plagiarism. WWers owned the rights to the program, the books, etc. He

> > was incringing upon their rights to make money on the things they

> > developed. So I can completely see why they would say " Sorry Dude, you

> > can't do that. We own this stuff. " They lost customers to his program

> > and that's not really fair to them.

> >

> > I do think some of their stuff is WAY overpriced, but they charge what

> > the market will bear. I've never had the Just 2 Points bars or any of

> > their other stuff except what you can get at the grocery store.

> > Honestly, I probably wouldn't buy it because I can get Quaker Chewy

> > Granola bars for 2 points and from what I've seen, they are a little

> > bigger. They are also WAY cheaper!

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Agree to disagree.

>BTW, as an aside, WWCalc does not INCLUDE any food lists (although they can

>be obtained and used with WWCalc) - minor point, but for the sake of

>accuracy.....

Actually, yes they were by the same guy on his website. I know. I

downloaded all of them from the same site.

>Mitch

>

>Tory Klementsen, MCP A+ wrote:

>

> >I can understand why they shut down WWCalc, actually.

> >

> >Imagine you'd put a lot of time and effort and money into developing a

> >program. It works and it attracted people in droves. One of your

> >customers decides he can do it on his own. Okay, great. Yeah. Good

> >luck to him!

> >

> >Well he does do it on his own and he decides, out of generosity, to

> >share with other people the same plan so they too can stop paying. Who

> >would be interested? Online users mainly. Some people would say " Hey,

> >why pay when I can get it for free? " stop paying for the program, and

> >use this guys program.

> >

> >It would be one thing if WWCalc just had a way to count points, but

> >the latest version included the food companion lists, the eating out

> >lists, baby food, etc. I mean it is a cool program and the guy is just

> >neat for working on it and sharing it...but even so, it's still

> >plagiarism. WWers owned the rights to the program, the books, etc. He

> >was incringing upon their rights to make money on the things they

> >developed. So I can completely see why they would say " Sorry Dude, you

> >can't do that. We own this stuff. " They lost customers to his program

> >and that's not really fair to them.

> >

> >I do think some of their stuff is WAY overpriced, but they charge what

> >the market will bear. I've never had the Just 2 Points bars or any of

> >their other stuff except what you can get at the grocery store.

> >Honestly, I probably wouldn't buy it because I can get Quaker Chewy

> >Granola bars for 2 points and from what I've seen, they are a little

> >bigger. They are also WAY cheaper!

> >

> >

> >On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 14:14:53 -0800, Bette Holzer

> wrote:

> >

> >

> >>Hey Mitch,

> >>I totally agree with everything you said. I don't mind paying WW for the

> >>things they provide, but I do object to their shutting down of WWcalc, and,

> >>I often object to the high prices they charge for things like Just2Points

> >>bars and smoothie mixes, plastic measuring spoons, etc. They have a good

> >>hold on that market and they know it. But oh well, I guess that's

> capitalism

> >>at its best, eh? I like those products, and so I continue to buy them,

> >>grumbling all the while I write my checks! LOL!

> >>It frankly never occurred to me to consider WW stock or options....I'll

> have

> >>to get my husband to check into it!

> >>How are you doing, by the way? Good I hope!

> >>Bette

> >>

> >>

[Guest guest]

It's still distributing plagiarized material, which is illegal.

At 01:54 AM 12/10/2004, Mitch Javeline wrote:

>Tory Klementsen wrote:

>

> >Agree to disagree.

> >

> >

> >

> >>BTW, as an aside, WWCalc does not INCLUDE any food lists (although they can

> >>be obtained and used with WWCalc) - minor point, but for the sake of

> >>accuracy.....

> >>

> >>

> >

> >Actually, yes they were by the same guy on his website. I know. I

> >downloaded all of them from the same site.

> >

> >

>

>

>But, done by different people - independently. You can use the lists

>without WWcalc. You can

>use WWcalc without the lists. Michele did the lists

>

> http://akasha.freeshell.org/ww/pilot/

>

>Bob Withers did the program:

>

>http://www.ruffboy.com/wwcalc.htm

>

>Best,

>Mitch

>

>

> >

> >

> >>Mitch

> >>

> >>Tory Klementsen, MCP A+ wrote:

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>>I can understand why they shut down WWCalc, actually.

> >>>

> >>>Imagine you'd put a lot of time and effort and money into developing a

> >>>program. It works and it attracted people in droves. One of your

> >>>customers decides he can do it on his own. Okay, great. Yeah. Good

> >>>luck to him!

> >>>

> >>>Well he does do it on his own and he decides, out of generosity, to

> >>>share with other people the same plan so they too can stop paying. Who

> >>>would be interested? Online users mainly. Some people would say " Hey,

> >>>why pay when I can get it for free? " stop paying for the program, and

> >>>use this guys program.

> >>>

> >>>It would be one thing if WWCalc just had a way to count points, but

> >>>the latest version included the food companion lists, the eating out

> >>>lists, baby food, etc. I mean it is a cool program and the guy is just

> >>>neat for working on it and sharing it...but even so, it's still

> >>>plagiarism. WWers owned the rights to the program, the books, etc. He

> >>>was incringing upon their rights to make money on the things they

> >>>developed. So I can completely see why they would say " Sorry Dude, you

> >>>can't do that. We own this stuff. " They lost customers to his program

> >>>and that's not really fair to them.

> >>>

> >>>I do think some of their stuff is WAY overpriced, but they charge what

> >>>the market will bear. I've never had the Just 2 Points bars or any of

> >>>their other stuff except what you can get at the grocery store.

> >>>Honestly, I probably wouldn't buy it because I can get Quaker Chewy

> >>>Granola bars for 2 points and from what I've seen, they are a little

> >>>bigger. They are also WAY cheaper!

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 14:14:53 -0800, Bette Holzer

> >>>

> >>>

> >>wrote:

> >>

> >>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>Hey Mitch,

> >>>>I totally agree with everything you said. I don't mind paying WW for the

> >>>>things they provide, but I do object to their shutting down of

> WWcalc, and,

> >>>>I often object to the high prices they charge for things like Just2Points

> >>>>bars and smoothie mixes, plastic measuring spoons, etc. They have a good

> >>>>hold on that market and they know it. But oh well, I guess that's

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>capitalism

> >>

> >>

> >>>>at its best, eh? I like those products, and so I continue to buy them,

> >>>>grumbling all the while I write my checks! LOL!

> >>>>It frankly never occurred to me to consider WW stock or options....I'll

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>have

> >>

> >>

> >>>>to get my husband to check into it!

> >>>>How are you doing, by the way? Good I hope!

> >>>>Bette

> >>>>

> >>>>

[Guest guest]

> It's still distributing plagiarized material, which is illegal.

>

Tory, this will be my last post on this thread, as its' worn

thin. Suffice it to say I agree with you (I said in an earlier

post that WW has the right to protect its' IP and make money).

The point of my latest post had nothing to do with whether its'

illegal or not. It had to do with whether the lists were part

of the WW progam. So, perhaps we can agree that the illegally

distributed lists are seperate from the illegally distributed

WWcalc and that WW could have chosen to embrace these tools and

kept lots of members happy, but chose not to.

Mitch