Re: bears repeating: Dear Doctor

December 13, 2004

In a message dated 12/13/2004 2:25:51 PM Eastern Standard Time,

madrids@... writes:

> Anyone know of info argueing the dosing

> of Armour; actually looking of maybe a package to send doc but not

> sure if its worth it....

>

i have found in several instances that if I document my questions/concerns IN

WRITING addressed to the doctor - that I get action. Try it.

I think if more of us were putting things in writing back to our doctors that

things would change.

Cindi

December 13, 2004

In a message dated 12/13/2004 2:58:56 PM Eastern Standard Time,

klb58@... writes:

> I wonder how receptive they are to getting printed off articles?

>

if they aren't receptive...they probably aren't the doc for us.

cindi

December 13, 2004

In a message dated 12/13/2004 2:58:56 PM Eastern Standard Time,

klb58@... writes:

> I had labs taken over a week ago, Free T3 and Free T4 among others, and

> haven't heard anything back, is that a long time?

>

i would call and ask for the results...and ask them to send you a copy.

cindi

December 13, 2004

I've been self medicating with Armour now for a little over a year

(thanks to help from everyone on the website). I was absolutely

miersable on $IN-thryoid and my docs were not listening (telling me

I should see a physicatrist). So I gave up on the docs and began

Armour on my own; and I've felt great since. I lost contact with

this group (been feeling great & trying to catch up on living

life!) But recently I went on to MYRX to reorder my Armour and

found it was gone! So I came here and have discovered I can't get

my Armour (I've been trying to catch up here and read the posts

regarding where to get it- I read I can get the Nature thyroid - but

I'm hesitant to try anything else seeing as how the Armour is

working). I changed my medical provider beginning of last year and

got a new endo - still no luck - she didn't like Armour (she herself

takes Synthroid). So I changed endos again, laid out the whole

story of self-medicating and same story - won't give me Armour -

this endo's reason (pretty much same as the others) was Synthroid

was easier to monitor with the more speicific dosing. I nagged her;

asking if I went back on Synthroid how long would I have to feel

crappy before she would let me try Armour. She finally answered " 6

months " ! 6 months?! I could lose my family, job, home, everything

if I had to endure another 6 months of hell! She argued that

my " TSH level was way off and my T3 was already to high with my T4

to low so obviously Armour is not working for me " I continually

argued that I don't care what my levels are (which by the way would

probably better if I had a doc who would help dose me! and I told

her so); I asked her to please set aside my numbers for one minute &

listen to me! I told her the synthroid did not make me feel well,

the armour does. I asked her to listen to me. It didn't work. I

left the office with a prescription for Levoxyl (which I never

filled). Ugh! I'm tired of the fight. Anyone go actually battle

it out with their doc and win? I honestly can't afford to pay for a

doc out of pocket (barely make mortage payments as it is with 2

jobs). I struggle to afford the Armour. I was considering sending

a letter similar to below. Anyone know of info argueing the dosing

of Armour; actually looking of maybe a package to send doc but not

sure if its worth it....

Thanks in advance for any advice!

Jen

Originally diagnosed with Graves' Disease: treated with radioactive

iodine. 4 years later - also diagnosed with Hashimotos. On 5th

endo doc in 6 years.

> (We have new members joining all the time, so I thought the

> following deserves to be posted, even if you Armour-experts have

> also read it before! grin. This was written by a gal whose doc

> refused to treat her with Armour thyroid, even though she was

> already on it. URL is below the letter:)

>

> Dear Doctor ______________:

>

> I would like for you to clarify several points which came up

during

> our recent discussion. You said Armour Natural Thyroid, my thyroid

> replacement preference, was impure, not predictably the same

> strength and old fashioned. I am concerned about this information

> because I have uncovered some research which indicates flaws in

this

> reasoning.

>

> Would you clarify your statements on Armour Natural Thyroid

product?

> If you feel those statements were valid, can you provide

> documentation to confirm your opinion that Armour Thyroid is an

> inferior product to Synthroid? Is Synthroid really a " new "

product

> or was it " grandfathered-in " around 1930? I would like to know,

why,

> when I changed to Armour Natural Thyroid, you didn't consider the

> definite improvement in my health important? I would like to know

> why you felt I was unqualified to say how my own body felt? Why

> would you insist upon prescribing a drug that I have tried and

does

> not work well with my body?

>

> Why do you prescribe one drug for all patients? According to Dr.

> E. Langer's book Solved, The Riddle of Illness, " It is

> possible, because of the liver's role in the T-4 and T-3

conversion,

> to have an over-or under-conversion as a result of liver

function. "

> For some patients, Armour Thyroid, because it contains both T-3

and

> T-4, may provide the extra energy they need to stay employed,

> continue relationships, or feel good. Synthroid does not contain

> both, Synthroid has to convert to T3 from T4. Furthermore, author

> Dr. Ray Peat states, " Unfortunately, our physicians often fail to

> understand or explain the benefits of natural (marketed under the

> name 'Armour') over synthetic thyroid medication. " Though the

> formula has changed somewhat in recent years, Dr. Peat calls the

> natural {thyroid} " the most generally effective, " since " many

people

> whose thyroids are suppressed by stress cannot respond to

synthetic

> thyroxine, T4. " Finally, is it possible that those impurities or

> unknowns you mentioned might possibly be as yet undiscovered

> substances which assist thyroid function, a substance or

substances

> which cannot possibly exist in a synthetic product?

>

> Your first statement during my consultation as a new patient was

> that the Armour Natural Thyroid should be discarded, it was full

of

> impurities, it was of inconsistent strength and it " went out in

the

> 70s. " Synthroid was the drug of choice. Armour was clearly

inferior.

> I explained that I felt better on the Armour Thyroid. You ordered

me

> to throw the Armour Natural Thyroid away and take the Synthroid

> dosage you prescribed. You said that a TSH test would not be valid

> if taken while on Armour Natural Thyroid. Can you document this

last

> statement? I understand the TSH is considered one objective

> measurement for thyroid supplementation; however, I question the

> inference that a patient's subjective opinion is unimportant. You

> seem to disregard how your patients feel. Have there been any

major

> published studies indicating which product the health consumer

> preferred? Customers have apparently had no choice in thyroid

> medication in most instances. Therefore, sales volume is not

> indicative of customer preference. Also, does the Synthroid

company

> fund or in any way contribute to organizations which you belong or

> to the university, itself? If so, does this influence your

decision

> to singularly prescribe Synthroid?

>

> At the end of my appointment, when you began to write my

> prescription for Synthroid, I indicated that would not be

necessary.

> You asked, " Why? " I said I was continuing with the Armour Thyroid

at

> the dosage my family physician had prescribed. Your response

> was, " You don't need to return do you? " I said, " No, I don't. " You

> further explained you did not use the Armour Natural Thyroid, and

> you would not treat me if I continued taking it.

>

> Do you refuse to treat thyroid cancer patients who refuse to take

> Synthroid? Should I develop thyroid cancer at some point in the

> future, would you refuse treatment to me on the basis that I chose

> not to take Synthroid? Can you legally refuse to treat a patient

who

> has thyroid cancer because the patient takes Armour Natural

Thyroid?

> Why should I or any patient be intimidated into taking what they

> feel is an inferior product. Why should I or any patient suffer a

> lesser quality of life because of physician bias for a particular

> brand name?

>

> I called Forest Pharmaceuticals, Inc. the manufacturer's of Armour

> Natural Thyroid, and spoke to Neal Sailer, the Product Manager,

> Thyroid Products. He is sending a packet of documentation

supporting

> the consistency of Armour Natural Thyroid.

>

> He took exception that Armour Natural Thyroid is of " unpredictable

> variability. " He explained that desiccated Thyroid powder is a

> U.S.P. product which means potency content is consistent and he

> added that the active drug product is constantly assayed during

the

> entire manufacturing process, the FDA insists on this for all

> products. In addition, Mr. Sailer explained that samples from

every

> batch are retained and periodically assayed for potency. I

> understand that the limit for T3 and T4 for U.S.P. Thyroid powder

is

> 90% to 110% and natural thyroid is a more stable product than the

> synthetics. Mr. Sailer would like to know how you came to a

> determination of Armour being an " impure " or sub-potent drug

> substance, and would like to see your data. Are you suggesting

that

> Armour Natural Thyroid be recalled?

>

> Additionally, Mr. Sailer informed me of a study recently published

> in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA),

entitled

> Bioequivalence of Generic and Brand-name Levothyroxine Products in

> the Treatment of Hypothyroidism, by Betty J. Dong, PharmD; et. al.

> Are you familiar with the study? Why are you prescribing a product

> that is 50% more expensive than Levoxyl and Levothroid? Are you

> assured of the potency of Synthroid? I also understand that

> Synthroid was reformulated in 1982 because the potency of

Synthroid

> was not near its stated content. In fact, in a letter from Dr.

Betty

> Dong, to the editor of The Journal of Clinical Pharmacy, Dr. Dong

> assayed several 200 mg tablets of levothyroxine from several

brands

> and generic and found Levothroid had 99% of it s stated potency

> content and Synthroid had only 78%. I understand that it was this

> information that prompted the reformulation of Synthroid. I also

> understand that patients were not informed of this change in

> formulation, which was clearly dangerous. Which now leads me back

to

> the U.S.P. standard and something else I have learned about

> Synthroid.

>

> Mr. Sailer informed me that Synthroid is failing the original

U.S.P.

> standard for dissolution for levothyroxine preparations. It is

also

> my understanding that they requested and were given a separate

> standard for dissolution by the U.S.P. which Mr. Sailer said was

> most unusual. If this separate dissolution standard for Synthroid

is

> successfully challenged, Synthroid may have to once again

> reformulate. Will you or the public be informed if this happens? I

> understand also that there are several class action lawsuits

pending

> against the makers of Synthroid probably initiated as a result of

> the several articles that appeared in the Wall Street Journal and

> news stories that were carried on NBC Nightly News. After all of

the

> above, why did you insist on prescribing Synthroid? Could

_________

> University provide me with any information regarding support from

> the makers of Synthroid, whether it is Knoll or Boots or Flint?

>

> I would sincerely appreciate an answer with documentation, in

> writing about the statements you have made about Synthroid and

> Armour Thyroid. I feel these are important questions, not only for

> me, but for the future physicians _______________ University

> educates. These future doctors, including the student who took my

> thyroid history, have not been given complete information which

> would allow them and their patients to make educated decisions

about

> their health and their lives.

>

> Sincerely,

>

> Shirley E. Grose

>

> http://thyroid.about.com/blletter.htm

December 13, 2004

Jen, I have had this argument with doctors for 30 years. I finally have gotten

to the point I don;t argue, I walk out and refuse to pay for their non-service.

I have succeeded in ruining my own credit twice this way, but have had nothing

else to show for it. I gave up and am self treating. I can;t afford to spend

another PENNY on doctors that won't help me. If I had a penny for every dollar I

have paid for testing and doctors that didn;t help me, in fact made me more ill

I could RETIRE today! I would try the other thyroid formulas out there, like

Nature-Throid if it were me.

*Artistic Grooming * Hurricane, WV

Fat cat? Diabetes? Listowner for overweight or hypothyroid cats

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hypokitties/

---

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Version: 6.0.809 / Virus Database: 551 - Release Date: 12/9/2004

December 13, 2004

Hi Jen,

So sorry you're going thru all that with your doctors. But join the club. Most

of us have been there, done that too.

I'm still going through it myself & think I'll have to find yet another doctor

who knows what s/he's doing, will presribe Armour brand for symptoms, not

relying on blood tests alone.

There's lists of links to supposedly good thyroid drs in the files for this

group & others here can tell you where to get them from thyroid-educated

doctors' websites.

You can also call your pharmacist or a few of them in your area & ask which

doctors prescribe Armour.

I'm living at poverty level too so can't pay for doctors or prescriptions out of

pocket either. So I know how it is & sympathize with you. There's wonderful

support & info in this egroup too. So hang in here with us.

Caroline

----- Original Message -----

From: madridsx3