Re: Suggestions needed!!!! - to Bill

[Guest guest]

Dear Bill

The dietitian is new. She and the planner have about the same fat amount, but

she has higher protein than the planner, and lower carbs than the planner. In

fact the planner's carbs are twice what she figured.

On 900 calories, these are our stats from the planner:

82.27 fat

17.32 carb

23.82 protein

Dietitians:

81.82 fat

8.91 carb

32 protein

So when I upped the protein, according to her figures the ketones skyrocked!!!

, like your daughter, had a hard time with olive oil, too, at the beginning

of the diet. So, at the first I stuck mostly with cream, butter and mayo. But

when I began making the keto (fake) yogurt that she absolutely loves, I used it

and no problem. She was farther into the diet and probably had adjusted to all

the fats more. I also all but eliminated the mayo as time went on.

When I give her the keto yogurt of sour cream and oil, stevia and vanilla, I

also give her a side order of plain white tuna. She loves it. Sounds nasty,

but she really loves it. She is obviously not a picky eater. Her mother is not

a gourmet cook, so she has satisfied herself with whatever is served. :-)

I went back to higher carbs on the planner today simply to keep the ketones

down, and the meals are nicer with more veggies and fruits. If I go to the

higher protein I will have to bring down the ratio again! And I do want to keep

her on this diet, as it is working on the seizures!

Do you think it would be healthier to up the protein and lower the ratio?

Her ketones are not high all day......... they build and get high by bedtime.

This works for her, as her seizure time is at night, actually early morning.

I am careful to get her fluids into her, and am thinking to increase them a

mite.

Thanks for your help.....

Bill Barber torontobarber@...> wrote:

Increasing protein and decreasing carbs will definitely make ketones go

up. That is obvious.

The apple juice works pretty fast when you think about it. I think that

it is about 10 to 15 minutes, isn't it? If you have to use it every day,

then you know that you can be pretty safe in reducing the ratio again.

Since you know that with the higher protein, ketones will go up, you

probably don't have to wait 2 or 3 weeks to reduce the ratio.

You are using a good mixture of fats. It sounds pretty healthy and easy

to eat. I have heard that olive oil is good at making ketones. We had

big problems with it and didn't take a chance on re-introducing it. How

do you calculate " sour cream keto yogurt " ? Maybe that is giving a higher

ratio.

It sounds like you are having a communications problem with the

dietician. Her calculations and the planner should agree pretty closely

if all the diet inputs are the same. There must be a minor error

somewhere. If the calories, ratio, protein are the same, then everything

else should come out the same for both of you.

Bill

wrote:

> Dear Bill

>

> I know it is a crazy problem, with so many working so hard to get

> high ketones.

>

> When I checked the JH planner against what the dietitian says... she

> says higher protein, same fat, so I began doing that, always on the

> same 2:1 ratio. Well, definitely does better with a bit lower

> protein and higher carbs I think.

>

> Will stick to the same ratio, though. I hate these late nights with

> apple juice. It takes a while to kick in, and I over-did the juice

> last week, so go slower now.

>

> For fats I use mostly what is in the cream, maybe a wee bit of butter

> on a veggie, and olive oil/safflower oil. I have others on hand, but

> those are what work best for her. At first she didn't tolerate olive

> oil. It is strong. But seems to now, and it mixes better than the

> safflower with her sour cream keto yogurt which is a big part of her

> breakfast.

>

> I think she is just one of those kids that produces ketones easily.

> She has not been on meds for almost three years. They did nothing

> but make her worse, and brought on all kinds of side effects. So,

> when she started keto last May, they were not variable to be dealt

> with, thankfully.

>

> You are right... it is hard to go slowly and see exactly what the

> change is bringing. I went from 2.5:1 to 2:1 last week.........then

> this week changed by upping the proteins and taking the carbs down to

> what the dietitian recommended. Guess I will go back to the planner,

> as it worked for her, better. It had twice the carbs the dietitian

> recommended. TWICE!

>

> has not seizured through it all. Bless her. Thanks,

> Bill.........

>

> Bill Barber torontobarber@...> wrote: You have a problem that

> most of us would love to have instead of the opposite, too low

> ketones.

>

> I would not make any BIG changes. You are doing very well, I would

> say. If you lower the ratio, do it in small steps, 0.3 or less. And

> yes, wait for 2 or 3 weeks between any changes. It can easily take

> that long for the body to adjust. Stick with the apple juice; treat

> the symptoms. That is more important than what the keto sticks say.

> They are reinforcing your observations of symptoms of high ketones.

>

> It could be that your daughter simply is more adept at producing high

> ketones. It may be that you are using the right sources of fat. What

> are they? Are you using any medications? Some of them can affect the

> ketones. Maybe there are mistakes in the menus and you are actually

> at a higher ratio. Or other causes.

>

> Be happy that things are going so well for you!

>

> Bill

>

> frumpymumma wrote:

>

>> Hi!

>>

>> I need some suggestions! My daughter was on a 2.5:1 ratio and her

>> ketones were getting consistently too high and would keep her

>> awake at nights. They would start low in the morning and build all

>> day and she would have too high by nightime. Made her very

>> irritable and uncomfortable. Multistix would turn dark

>> immediately. Just plainly too high.

>>

>> So..... last week I lowered the ratio to 2:1 and we are having the

>> same problems, again! Seemed better for the first few days she

>> was on the lower ratio, but she is back to super high ketones at

>> night and cannot sleep because of them. They are too high.

>>

>> I know from past experience to give her apple juice to get them

>> down temporarily, but this is not a permanent " fix. " Does anyone

>> have any idea what might be going on? Should I stick it out for

>> the two week settling in period before lowering the ratio again?

>> Seizure wise she is doing well. Only one seizure this month; one

>> last month.

>>

>> With almost everyone upping their ratios for better control, it

>> seems odd that I am having to continually be lowering hers.

>>

>> The only other person I have heard of at such low ratios..even

>> lower.. is Rhonda's daughter, Shan.

>>

>> I NEED SOME SUGGESTIONS. Am I missing something???? She goes

>> crazy with these high ketones. They are really miserable when they

>> go too high, and I don't want her seizuring so it is back to the

>> apple juice!

>>

>> Thanks. ...'s mumma (keto kid since May 04... gone down

>> from a 4:1 to 2:1 and still with crazy high ketones!)

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

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