Guest guest Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 I am considering reducing my son's calories. Jordan is 39 months old. He is currently 27lbs and 38inches tall. The dietian put him on 1030 calories. She said that she estimated them on the high side. While we were in the hospital at 2/3 of the meals Jordan had good seizure control (well better than he is now). So by my estimates he *ideal* weight should be about 32lbs. And according to Dr. Freeman's book we should be doing 63.75 calories per kilogram. That would be about 899 calories. Does that sound about right? Can we reduce from 1030 to 899 all at once? I hope all this makes since. Thank you all for all of your help, I know I have been asking alot of questions!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 Things like that are usually in Dr. Freeman's book. It is just hard to locate! For a young child, I would say 50 calories every 2 or 3 weeks would be conservative and give the body time to adjust. Weigh and measure him very concisely every week at the same time of day and with the same clothes, etc. to see the effect of the calorie cuts. It will be harder on the dietician tø recalculate the meals like that. Do you do your own meal plans? Bill dreamerofluna wrote: > > I am considering reducing my son's calories. Jordan is 39 months > old. He is currently 27lbs and 38inches tall. The dietian put him on > 1030 calories. She said that she estimated them on the high side. > While we were in the hospital at 2/3 of the meals Jordan had good > seizure control (well better than he is now). So by my estimates he > *ideal* weight should be about 32lbs. And according to Dr. Freeman's > book we should be doing 63.75 calories per kilogram. That would be > about 899 calories. Does that sound about right? Can we reduce from > 1030 to 899 all at once? I hope all this makes since. Thank you all > for all of your help, I know I have been asking alot of questions!! > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 Things like that are usually in Dr. Freeman's book. It is just hard to locate! For a young child, I would say 50 calories every 2 or 3 weeks would be conservative and give the body time to adjust. Weigh and measure him very concisely every week at the same time of day and with the same clothes, etc. to see the effect of the calorie cuts. It will be harder on the dietician tø recalculate the meals like that. Do you do your own meal plans? Bill dreamerofluna wrote: > > I am considering reducing my son's calories. Jordan is 39 months > old. He is currently 27lbs and 38inches tall. The dietian put him on > 1030 calories. She said that she estimated them on the high side. > While we were in the hospital at 2/3 of the meals Jordan had good > seizure control (well better than he is now). So by my estimates he > *ideal* weight should be about 32lbs. And according to Dr. Freeman's > book we should be doing 63.75 calories per kilogram. That would be > about 899 calories. Does that sound about right? Can we reduce from > 1030 to 899 all at once? I hope all this makes since. Thank you all > for all of your help, I know I have been asking alot of questions!! > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 Yes, I have my own meal planner, the stanford planner. So you think that 130 cal is too much to cut at once? > > > > I am considering reducing my son's calories. Jordan is 39 months > > old. He is currently 27lbs and 38inches tall. The dietian put him on > > 1030 calories. She said that she estimated them on the high side. > > While we were in the hospital at 2/3 of the meals Jordan had good > > seizure control (well better than he is now). So by my estimates he > > *ideal* weight should be about 32lbs. And according to Dr. Freeman's > > book we should be doing 63.75 calories per kilogram. That would be > > about 899 calories. Does that sound about right? Can we reduce from > > 1030 to 899 all at once? I hope all this makes since. Thank you all > > for all of your help, I know I have been asking alot of questions!! > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 I would say so, yes. If you go down gradually and watch weight and height and ketones and seizures, you will have a better idea of the best calorie amount to use. You want to be within 25 calories. If you go down by 130 all at once, you may start burning more body fat and overshoot and cause a big upset to the metabolism. Then you will wonder if you should increase or decrease the next time and by how much. Bill dreamerofluna wrote: > > Yes, I have my own meal planner, the stanford planner. So you think > that 130 cal is too much to cut at once? > > >> >>>I am considering reducing my son's calories. Jordan is 39 months >>>old. He is currently 27lbs and 38inches tall. The dietian put >> > him on > >>>1030 calories. She said that she estimated them on the high >> > side. > >>>While we were in the hospital at 2/3 of the meals Jordan had >> > good > >>>seizure control (well better than he is now). So by my estimates >> > he > >>>*ideal* weight should be about 32lbs. And according to Dr. >> > Freeman's > >>>book we should be doing 63.75 calories per kilogram. That would >> > be > >>>about 899 calories. Does that sound about right? Can we reduce >> > from > >>>1030 to 899 all at once? I hope all this makes since. Thank you >> > all > >>>for all of your help, I know I have been asking alot of >> > questions!! > >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 I would say so, yes. If you go down gradually and watch weight and height and ketones and seizures, you will have a better idea of the best calorie amount to use. You want to be within 25 calories. If you go down by 130 all at once, you may start burning more body fat and overshoot and cause a big upset to the metabolism. Then you will wonder if you should increase or decrease the next time and by how much. Bill dreamerofluna wrote: > > Yes, I have my own meal planner, the stanford planner. So you think > that 130 cal is too much to cut at once? > > >> >>>I am considering reducing my son's calories. Jordan is 39 months >>>old. He is currently 27lbs and 38inches tall. The dietian put >> > him on > >>>1030 calories. She said that she estimated them on the high >> > side. > >>>While we were in the hospital at 2/3 of the meals Jordan had >> > good > >>>seizure control (well better than he is now). So by my estimates >> > he > >>>*ideal* weight should be about 32lbs. And according to Dr. >> > Freeman's > >>>book we should be doing 63.75 calories per kilogram. That would >> > be > >>>about 899 calories. Does that sound about right? Can we reduce >> > from > >>>1030 to 899 all at once? I hope all this makes since. Thank you >> > all > >>>for all of your help, I know I have been asking alot of >> > questions!! > >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 I would say so, yes. If you go down gradually and watch weight and height and ketones and seizures, you will have a better idea of the best calorie amount to use. You want to be within 25 calories. If you go down by 130 all at once, you may start burning more body fat and overshoot and cause a big upset to the metabolism. Then you will wonder if you should increase or decrease the next time and by how much. Bill dreamerofluna wrote: > > Yes, I have my own meal planner, the stanford planner. So you think > that 130 cal is too much to cut at once? > > >> >>>I am considering reducing my son's calories. Jordan is 39 months >>>old. He is currently 27lbs and 38inches tall. The dietian put >> > him on > >>>1030 calories. She said that she estimated them on the high >> > side. > >>>While we were in the hospital at 2/3 of the meals Jordan had >> > good > >>>seizure control (well better than he is now). So by my estimates >> > he > >>>*ideal* weight should be about 32lbs. And according to Dr. >> > Freeman's > >>>book we should be doing 63.75 calories per kilogram. That would >> > be > >>>about 899 calories. Does that sound about right? Can we reduce >> > from > >>>1030 to 899 all at once? I hope all this makes since. Thank you >> > all > >>>for all of your help, I know I have been asking alot of >> > questions!! > >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 I think 130 calories would be too much to reduce at one time. I would do two reductions of 65 cals or three reductions of maybe 50, 40 and 40 (rounding total cals. to 900). I would wait at least 2 wks. between reductions. Cammie > > I am considering reducing my son's calories. Jordan is 39 months > old. He is currently 27lbs and 38inches tall. The dietian put him on > 1030 calories. She said that she estimated them on the high side. > While we were in the hospital at 2/3 of the meals Jordan had good > seizure control (well better than he is now). So by my estimates he > *ideal* weight should be about 32lbs. And according to Dr. Freeman's > book we should be doing 63.75 calories per kilogram. That would be > about 899 calories. Does that sound about right? Can we reduce from > 1030 to 899 all at once? I hope all this makes since. Thank you all > for all of your help, I know I have been asking alot of questions!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 2, 2004 Report Share Posted November 2, 2004 Oh ok. Thanks!! > >> > >>>I am considering reducing my son's calories. Jordan is 39 months > >>>old. He is currently 27lbs and 38inches tall. The dietian put > >> > > him on > > > >>>1030 calories. She said that she estimated them on the high > >> > > side. > > > >>>While we were in the hospital at 2/3 of the meals Jordan had > >> > > good > > > >>>seizure control (well better than he is now). So by my estimates > >> > > he > > > >>>*ideal* weight should be about 32lbs. And according to Dr. > >> > > Freeman's > > > >>>book we should be doing 63.75 calories per kilogram. That would > >> > > be > > > >>>about 899 calories. Does that sound about right? Can we reduce > >> > > from > > > >>>1030 to 899 all at once? I hope all this makes since. Thank you > >> > > all > > > >>>for all of your help, I know I have been asking alot of > >> > > questions!! > > > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 2, 2004 Report Share Posted November 2, 2004 Oh ok. Thanks!! > >> > >>>I am considering reducing my son's calories. Jordan is 39 months > >>>old. He is currently 27lbs and 38inches tall. The dietian put > >> > > him on > > > >>>1030 calories. She said that she estimated them on the high > >> > > side. > > > >>>While we were in the hospital at 2/3 of the meals Jordan had > >> > > good > > > >>>seizure control (well better than he is now). So by my estimates > >> > > he > > > >>>*ideal* weight should be about 32lbs. And according to Dr. > >> > > Freeman's > > > >>>book we should be doing 63.75 calories per kilogram. That would > >> > > be > > > >>>about 899 calories. Does that sound about right? Can we reduce > >> > > from > > > >>>1030 to 899 all at once? I hope all this makes since. Thank you > >> > > all > > > >>>for all of your help, I know I have been asking alot of > >> > > questions!! > > > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 2, 2004 Report Share Posted November 2, 2004 Oh ok. Thanks!! > >> > >>>I am considering reducing my son's calories. Jordan is 39 months > >>>old. He is currently 27lbs and 38inches tall. The dietian put > >> > > him on > > > >>>1030 calories. She said that she estimated them on the high > >> > > side. > > > >>>While we were in the hospital at 2/3 of the meals Jordan had > >> > > good > > > >>>seizure control (well better than he is now). So by my estimates > >> > > he > > > >>>*ideal* weight should be about 32lbs. And according to Dr. > >> > > Freeman's > > > >>>book we should be doing 63.75 calories per kilogram. That would > >> > > be > > > >>>about 899 calories. Does that sound about right? Can we reduce > >> > > from > > > >>>1030 to 899 all at once? I hope all this makes since. Thank you > >> > > all > > > >>>for all of your help, I know I have been asking alot of > >> > > questions!! > > > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 Hmm, according to the table I have in Freeman's book, the cal allowance for a 3 yr old is 70-75 cals per kg. Where did you get the 63.75 cals per kg figure from? I might be looking at a different part to you? For 27 lbs (12.2 kgs approx) if using the 70-75 cals per kg formula, the range would be 854-915 cals, but for 32 lbs, (approx 14.5 kgs) it would be between 1015 and 1088 cals. If he needs to gain weight (which it looks like you are saying he does?) I'm not sure why you are thinking of reducing cals, but I might have my wires crossed as far as his weight/cal needs go... Has he been gaining or losing weight since diet initiation? Either way, if you do reduce, I wouldn't do more than 50 cals per week, and then you would have to wait a wee while to see what effect that has on ketones and on the scales. Same deal if the outcome is that you want to increase his weight, if increasing cals I wouldn't do it by more than 50 cals in one go (actually I try and stick to only 25 cal changes up or down if poss). ----- Original Message ----- From: dreamerofluna I am considering reducing my son's calories. Jordan is 39 months old. He is currently 27lbs and 38inches tall. The dietian put him on 1030 calories. She said that she estimated them on the high side. While we were in the hospital at 2/3 of the meals Jordan had good seizure control (well better than he is now). So by my estimates he *ideal* weight should be about 32lbs. And according to Dr. Freeman's book we should be doing 63.75 calories per kilogram. That would be about 899 calories. Does that sound about right? Can we reduce from 1030 to 899 all at once? I hope all this makes since. Thank you all for all of your help, I know I have been asking alot of questions!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 On page 120 of Dr. Freeman's book it says " The Ketogenic Diet is generally based on 75% of Recommended Daily Allowance of calories for a child's desirable weight and height " Is shows 85 calories per kilogram recommended for a child 3 to 4 years of age. So if I take 75% of 85kcal/kg that would be 63.75. And 63.75 at 14.5kg is 924.38 calories a day. That is the way I interpeted it anyway..:)But then again I am new at this. > Hmm, according to the table I have in Freeman's book, the cal allowance for a 3 yr old is 70-75 cals per kg. > Where did you get the 63.75 cals per kg figure from? I might be looking at a different part to you? > For 27 lbs (12.2 kgs approx) if using the 70-75 cals per kg formula, the range would be 854-915 cals, but for 32 lbs, (approx 14.5 kgs) it would be between 1015 and 1088 cals. > If he needs to gain weight (which it looks like you are saying he does?) I'm not sure why you are thinking of reducing cals, but I might have my wires crossed as far as his weight/cal needs go... Has he been gaining or losing weight since diet initiation? > Either way, if you do reduce, I wouldn't do more than 50 cals per week, and then you would have to wait a wee while to see what effect that has on ketones and on the scales. > Same deal if the outcome is that you want to increase his weight, if increasing cals I wouldn't do it by more than 50 cals in one go (actually I try and stick to only 25 cal changes up or down if poss). > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: dreamerofluna > > > I am considering reducing my son's calories. Jordan is 39 months > old. He is currently 27lbs and 38inches tall. The dietian put him on > 1030 calories. She said that she estimated them on the high side. > While we were in the hospital at 2/3 of the meals Jordan had good > seizure control (well better than he is now). So by my estimates he > *ideal* weight should be about 32lbs. And according to Dr. Freeman's > book we should be doing 63.75 calories per kilogram. That would be > about 899 calories. Does that sound about right? Can we reduce from > 1030 to 899 all at once? I hope all this makes since. Thank you all > for all of your help, I know I have been asking alot of questions!! > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 Luna, You are correct. This is the example given on page 128 in fact. These are estimates only and need to be evaluated in light of weight gain or loss, desirable weight and seizure control. Bill dreamerofluna wrote: > > On page 120 of Dr. Freeman's book it says " The Ketogenic Diet is > generally based on 75% of Recommended Daily Allowance of calories > for a child's desirable weight and height " > Is shows 85 calories per kilogram recommended for a child 3 to 4 > years of age. So if I take 75% of 85kcal/kg that would be 63.75. And > 63.75 at 14.5kg is 924.38 calories a day. > That is the way I interpeted it anyway..:)But then again I am new at > this. > > > > >> Hmm, according to the table I have in Freeman's book, the cal > > allowance for a 3 yr old is 70-75 cals per kg. > >> Where did you get the 63.75 cals per kg figure from? I might be > > looking at a different part to you? > >> For 27 lbs (12.2 kgs approx) if using the 70-75 cals per kg > > formula, the range would be 854-915 cals, but for 32 lbs, (approx > 14.5 kgs) it would be between 1015 and 1088 cals. > >> If he needs to gain weight (which it looks like you are saying > > he does?) I'm not sure why you are thinking of reducing cals, but I > might have my wires crossed as far as his weight/cal needs go... Has > he been gaining or losing weight since diet initiation? > >> Either way, if you do reduce, I wouldn't do more than 50 cals > > per week, and then you would have to wait a wee while to see what > effect that has on ketones and on the scales. > >> Same deal if the outcome is that you want to increase his > > weight, if increasing cals I wouldn't do it by more than 50 cals in > one go (actually I try and stick to only 25 cal changes up or down > if poss). > >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: dreamerofluna >> >> >> I am considering reducing my son's calories. Jordan is 39 > > months > >> old. He is currently 27lbs and 38inches tall. The dietian put > > him on > >> 1030 calories. She said that she estimated them on the high > > side. > >> While we were in the hospital at 2/3 of the meals Jordan had > > good > >> seizure control (well better than he is now). So by my > > estimates he > >> *ideal* weight should be about 32lbs. And according to Dr. > > Freeman's > >> book we should be doing 63.75 calories per kilogram. That > > would be > >> about 899 calories. Does that sound about right? Can we reduce > > from > >> 1030 to 899 all at once? I hope all this makes since. Thank > > you all > >> for all of your help, I know I have been asking alot of > > questions!! > >> >> >> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2004 Report Share Posted November 4, 2004 Oh ok, I haven't used that table for before, as he was just about to turn 5 when he started the diet, and the figures there stopped at age 4, so we have always gone on the one on Pg 131. Well, sort of, we use it more to check is in the ballpark following an actual ree dx test - our dietician uses a similar table to that one on Pg120, after the ree dx test has determined his basal metabolic rate, then those percentages there for activity/growth etc are added on afterwards. So did your dietician estimate cals originally on the high side to encourage some weight gain then? If he is only 12.2 kgs currently, then with that 63.75 cals per kg for his current weight formula, his body from a keto diet seizure control point of view, only currently 'needs' 778 cals per day, which sounds really low, possibly why he had better seizure control on the 2/3 meals in hospital. There may be a period therefore where you are striving to get him to that ideal weight, where his body still recognises the cal level you are giving him as too much to be 'mimicing starvation', and it might not be till he is actually at that ideal weight that the cals are catering for, that you get optimum control. What does your dietician think about that reduction and cal level you want to now aim for? ----- Original Message ----- From: dreamerofluna On page 120 of Dr. Freeman's book it says " The Ketogenic Diet is generally based on 75% of Recommended Daily Allowance of calories for a child's desirable weight and height " Is shows 85 calories per kilogram recommended for a child 3 to 4 years of age. So if I take 75% of 85kcal/kg that would be 63.75. And 63.75 at 14.5kg is 924.38 calories a day. That is the way I interpeted it anyway..:)But then again I am new at this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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