Guest guest Posted March 22, 2006 Report Posted March 22, 2006 Hi Terri It may also be a sign of Autism. Ask your doctor if he can have an assessment done for Autism. hugs Chrissy terri <tillmann@...> wrote: My son was recently diagnosed with apraxia of speech (3 yo), no other developmental problems noted. I am wondering about his habit of lining up toys? He has been doing this since about 12 months. He has been doing all sorts of other imaginative play for the last 6 months, but he always either starts or finishes by lining up all his cars, block, or whatever. I have noticed a number of postings that mention 'lining up toys', and am wondering if this is an indicator of apraxia or something else? Quote
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2006 Report Posted March 23, 2006 Although some kids with obsessive-compulsive disorder or autism do this, if you have no other developmental problems, and the child has normal receptive speech and behavior...maybe he's just a neat kid! Peace, Kathy E. On Mar 22, 2006, at 6:25 PM, terri wrote: > My son was recently diagnosed with apraxia of speech (3 yo), no other > developmental problems noted. I am wondering about his habit of > lining up toys? He has been doing this since about 12 months. He has > been doing all sorts of other imaginative play for the last 6 months, > but he always either starts or finishes by lining up all his cars, > block, or whatever. I have noticed a number of postings that mention > 'lining up toys', and am wondering if this is an indicator of apraxia > or something else? Quote
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2006 Report Posted March 23, 2006 My kids never lined anything up. Although they did just start pretend play in beginning of first grade, but then again they did have each other.. Quote
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2006 Report Posted March 23, 2006 Terri, My son also lines up his toys and he's 4.6y.o. and has Apraxia (only) with slight Hypotonis (low-muscle tone in forearms). I don't think it is a sign of something else since you just had him seen by a dr. and they didn't note such. My nuero-developmental pediatrician was concern with his lack of pretend play and slight eye contact and so she requested more active participation in this area by ourselves and his therapist and he has improved in both areas tremendously. As his speech grew; it followed. I think it's a natural progression. Let not your heart be troubled. This seems to be a fairly common thing with our kids. Myra terri <tillmann@...> Sent by: cc: @yaho Subject: [ ] Lining up toys ogroups.com 03/22/2006 06:25 PM Please respond to My son was recently diagnosed with apraxia of speech (3 yo), no other developmental problems noted. I am wondering about his habit of lining up toys? He has been doing this since about 12 months. He has been doing all sorts of other imaginative play for the last 6 months, but he always either starts or finishes by lining up all his cars, block, or whatever. I have noticed a number of postings that mention 'lining up toys', and am wondering if this is an indicator of apraxia or something else? Quote
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2006 Report Posted March 23, 2006 It could also be a sensory problem. http://www.tsbvi.edu/Outreach/seehear/fall97/sensory.htm 3. The child lacks variety in play activities. Some children become very repetitive or stereotypic in playing with toys. Everything may be flung aside, tapped on a surface, or brought to the mouth. Another child may prefer only visual activities (TV, videos, looking at books) while avoiding visual-motor or manipulative toys (coloring, drawing, clay, construction toys.) Other children may learn one way to interact with a toy or playground equipment without adding variations, creative play, or generalizing to other similar objects. For example, the child may line up toy cars but does not pretend they are going places or experiment with rolling them down an incline. > My son was recently diagnosed with apraxia of speech (3 yo), no other > developmental problems noted. I am wondering about his habit of > lining up toys? He has been doing this since about 12 months. He has > been doing all sorts of other imaginative play for the last 6 months, > but he always either starts or finishes by lining up all his cars, > block, or whatever. I have noticed a number of postings that mention > 'lining up toys', and am wondering if this is an indicator of apraxia > or something else? > Quote
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2006 Report Posted March 23, 2006 My daughter has verbal apraxia and from the first neurologist visit, he said most definitely she was not autistic. She too enjoyed lining up her hot wheels cars and one time she even found four or five catepillars outside and lined them up for a parade!!! ugh!!! : ) Joyce Cerulo Medway, MA (daughter Meghan 15 almost 16 years old with verbal apraxia. Re: [ ] Lining up toys > Hi Terri > It may also be a sign of Autism. Ask your doctor if he can have an assessment done for Autism. > hugs > Chrissy > > terri <tillmann@...> wrote: > My son was recently diagnosed with apraxia of speech (3 yo), no other > developmental problems noted. I am wondering about his habit of > lining up toys? He has been doing this since about 12 months. He has > been doing all sorts of other imaginative play for the last 6 months, > but he always either starts or finishes by lining up all his cars, > block, or whatever. I have noticed a number of postings that mention > 'lining up toys', and am wondering if this is an indicator of apraxia > or something else? > Quote
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2006 Report Posted March 23, 2006 That's right...My son has Sensory issues...how quickly I forgot about it since many of his sensory issues have dissapated to a a point where I forget he has it.. It could also be a sensory problem. http://www.tsbvi.edu/Outreach/seehear/fall97/sensory.htm 3. The child lacks variety in play activities. Some children become very repetitive or stereotypic in playing with toys. Everything may be flung aside, tapped on a surface, or brought to the mouth. Another child may prefer only visual activities (TV, videos, looking at books) while avoiding visual-motor or manipulative toys (coloring, drawing, clay, construction toys.) Other children may learn one way to interact with a toy or playground equipment without adding variations, creative play, or generalizing to other similar objects. For example, the child may line up toy cars but does not pretend they are going places or experiment with rolling them down an incline. > > Hi Terri > It may also be a sign of Autism. Ask your doctor if he can have an assessment done for Autism. > hugs > Chrissy Quote
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2006 Report Posted March 23, 2006 Joyce since your daughter is now 15 going on 16 years old...is she still as " neat " as she was as a child wanting everything lined up? ===== Quote
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2006 Report Posted March 23, 2006 Heck no! Her room is the typical teenagers " disaster area " : ) Joyce [ ] Re: Lining up toys > Joyce since your daughter is now 15 going on 16 years old...is she > still as " neat " as she was as a child wanting everything lined up? > > > ===== > Quote
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2006 Report Posted March 23, 2006 I think it's inevitable that if you have an apraxia or dyspraxia dx you look at autism as a possibility, just as you might look at cerebral palsy or dyslexia or ADHD/ADD. There is some overlap with all of these dxs and to be on a listserve at all means that a parent is likely researching every possible dx. I agree that when you spend time with another child who is profoundly autistic, it is extremely obvious how different certain behaviors can be from the norm. Sometimes I wonder about whether I'd feel that way if I were around a child with high functioning autism. I have attending a social skills group at Winner's program in San , CA. It's very well-regarded out here, and it's also well-known that it caters primarily to kids with Asperger's or NV learning disorder. When we joined, I was told that T would be with 2 other kids who do not stand out as being different. T was doing things like pulling other kids' toys instead of asking for them at times, and it just seemed like a good way to brush up on his social skills and get the benefit of a kind of supplemntary mini-preschool as well. I was getting irritated the past few weeks because his teacher, who's also a well-respected SLP, was describing him in her weekly class summaries as having issues with non-verbal communication. I emailed back that I felt she was confusing motor planning problems with problems with nonverbal communication because the comments overlapped with a building game that's too long to get into, but that required T to use his hands ONLY to demonstrate the size & shape of blocks & direct his classmates nonverbally where they should place the blocks to form a building (sideways, tall, etc.). Anyway, to make a long story short, I finally just called her and said, " I'm pretty well clued in to terms like nonverbal communication problems, and I'm just wanting to clarify whether what you're trying to say is that he's exhibiting spectrumy-type behavior. " She said she was glad I asked, because she absolutely was not thinking that, and she was sorry if that's how I'd been reading it. She just feels that his motor planning issues have caused him not to progress at the same rate that a " typical " kid would progress, and she's trying to help by filling in the holes. The funny thing is, she also said that there were " no children with Asperger's in the group, " and I had assumed all along that this semi-brilliant kid who knows the location of all the planets in relation to earth/unusual facts about each one was an Asperger's kid. Since at least 90% of this SLP's clients are on the spectrum, and since she's highly respected and been at this a long while, I trust her opinion. Meanwhile, I think my own assumption about this other little boy is proof of how easily you can " see " issues when looking almost too hard for them. So I agree with what you wrote below. I also think that if any educated person does a search of apraxia or dyspraxia on Google, there is a good chance they will conclude that dyspraxia/apraxia is/are on the spectrum. I found that out with a close relative, when she casually emailed that dyspraxia was " on the autistic spectrum, wasn't it? " So, again, I kind of think it's inevitable that others will draw this conclusion, and/or think (or out and out say) that anyone who says otherwise is in denial. In a message dated 3/23/2006 5:12:53 PM Pacific Standard Time, fopt65@... writes: I think this is a good example of how overdiagnosing of autism has happened: " key words " . Everybody now has red flags go off in their head when the terms spinning, lining up toys, and poor socializing are mentioned. The difference is TO WHAT DEGREE are they doing this? Nearly every boy I know lines up army men before mowing them down, arranges his matchbox cars when playing etc. The difference is does he ONLY line them up, with no play involved at all? Spinning to music or playing Ring around the rosey is normal, spinning for hours at a time is not. " Normal " children enjoy using swingsets in parks, but they do not " crave " it, or need it to control their behavior. Socialization skills should be measured realistically, not by throwing a 2.5 year old into a classroom full of unknown children during a CPSE examination, with the therapist then stating that the child clearly did not interact with the others, therefore there must be autism present. I still feel that allowing new graduate OT PT and ST into homecare, without prior experience of normal vs. abnormal has contributed somewhat to the autism rate of 1 in 166 children. A Supreme Court judge once stated that he could not define pornography, but " you know it when you see it " . I find this to be analogous to autistic behaviors. When you see the behavior of a truly autistic child, it is so different in terms of the degree and domination of the behavior, that " you know it when you see it " . > > Terri, > My son also lines up his toys and he's 4.6y.o. and has Apraxia (only) with > slight Hypotonis (low-muscle tone in forearms). I don't think it is a sign > of something else since you just had him seen by a dr. and they didn't note > such. My nuero-developmental pediatrician was concern with his lack of > pretend play and slight eye contact and so she requested more active > participation in this area by ourselves and his therapist and he has > improved in both areas tremendously. As his speech grew; it followed. I > think it's a natural progression. Let not your heart be troubled. This > seems to be a fairly common thing with our kids. > > Myra Quote
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2006 Report Posted March 23, 2006 I would say if you are questioning maybe autism go to an autism web site and most of them have check lists and you will know if your child fits the criteria for possible autism. With asd you will see allot of self stim and lack of eye contact often no response when called or go in the other direction.Hows the eating going is there any problems there? ASD kids have alot of eating issues.Mic dangles everything. 3 is the usual age asd symptons start to be apparent to parents. On the other hand my brother now 48 used to line up hundreds of little tiny army men Germans and Americans and spend hours doing this. He was in his own little world. He was a picky eater always and he could not learn to read until he was 8 or 9 and my mom spent countless hours teaching him. He had a speech therapists once a week in grammar school, by todays standards he may have come very close to asd.He would yell at me if he knew I said this.Makes me laugh. Laurie Quote
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2006 Report Posted March 23, 2006 I think this is a good example of how overdiagnosing of autism has happened: " key words " . Everybody now has red flags go off in their head when the terms spinning, lining up toys, and poor socializing are mentioned. The difference is TO WHAT DEGREE are they doing this? Nearly every boy I know lines up army men before mowing them down, arranges his matchbox cars when playing etc. The difference is does he ONLY line them up, with no play involved at all? Spinning to music or playing Ring around the rosey is normal, spinning for hours at a time is not. " Normal " children enjoy using swingsets in parks, but they do not " crave " it, or need it to control their behavior. Socialization skills should be measured realistically, not by throwing a 2.5 year old into a classroom full of unknown children during a CPSE examination, with the therapist then stating that the child clearly did not interact with the others, therefore there must be autism present. I still feel that allowing new graduate OT PT and ST into homecare, without prior experience of normal vs. abnormal has contributed somewhat to the autism rate of 1 in 166 children. A Supreme Court judge once stated that he could not define pornography, but " you know it when you see it " . I find this to be analogous to autistic behaviors. When you see the behavior of a truly autistic child, it is so different in terms of the degree and domination of the behavior, that " you know it when you see it " . > > Terri, > My son also lines up his toys and he's 4.6y.o. and has Apraxia (only) with > slight Hypotonis (low-muscle tone in forearms). I don't think it is a sign > of something else since you just had him seen by a dr. and they didn't note > such. My nuero-developmental pediatrician was concern with his lack of > pretend play and slight eye contact and so she requested more active > participation in this area by ourselves and his therapist and he has > improved in both areas tremendously. As his speech grew; it followed. I > think it's a natural progression. Let not your heart be troubled. This > seems to be a fairly common thing with our kids. > > Myra > > > > terri > <tillmann@...> To: > Sent by: cc: > @yaho Subject: [ ] Lining up toys > ogroups.com > > > 03/22/2006 06:25 PM > Please respond to > > > > > > > > My son was recently diagnosed with apraxia of speech (3 yo), no other > developmental problems noted. I am wondering about his habit of > lining up toys? He has been doing this since about 12 months. He has > been doing all sorts of other imaginative play for the last 6 months, > but he always either starts or finishes by lining up all his cars, > block, or whatever. I have noticed a number of postings that mention > 'lining up toys', and am wondering if this is an indicator of apraxia > or something else? > > > > > > Quote
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2006 Report Posted March 23, 2006 Both my " typical " 6.5 yr old and apraxic 4.5 yr old lined up their toys until around age 4. My mother reports that my brother and I all did this too. In particular my children would line up matchbox cars at the start of play then move each around individually. My 4 yr old did it a little more than my 6 yr old did. He also liked to line up his brother's rescue heros on the edge of the coffee table then knock them down one by one squealing in delight! My grandmother remembers my father lining up toys a lot, particularly cars. I used to go into my mom's thread drawer and put all her threads in rainbow order. I was very specific with this. My crayons and colored pencils were like this too. No one in our family has autism (although my son was misdiagnosed initially - he's not officially undiagnosed, but everyone is 99% sure he's not anywhere on the spectrum.) No one has OCD or neurological issues aside from my brother who has Tourettes. What we do have in common is logical, organized scientific minds! We were all gifted in math and pursued further studies in science. My father is a Chem E. My brother has a double PhD in EE and some specific kind of physics. I was a PhD candidate in Biochemistry until I left to follow a different course in life. So far my 6.5 yr old appears to be gifted in math (we haven't tested him for gifted, but we homeschool and he is far ahead of his grade and needs almost no guidance from me to do his work) and he understands many scientific concepts naturally with no explanation. My little one is too minimally verbal to really tell what is going on, but he's very good at spacial concepts from what we can tell non-verbally. In MY family I think lining up toys is just a demonstration of how our minds think. It can mean different things in different children, but that alone should not be a reason to assume autism or something else is going on. (I'm really far behind on mail and I haven't seen the original post yet so I might be assuming it was posted asking something it wasn't.) If there are other signs by all means pursue more evaluations, but don't let JUST lining up toys unduly alarm you. I've seen countless neuro-typical kids with this behavior, boys usually outnumber girls in my observations. Miche Quote
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2006 Report Posted March 24, 2006 LOL!!!! I have two rooms like a Cyclone has hit!!! Need boots to get in the door Chrissy Joyce Cerulo <Jcerulo@...> wrote: Heck no! Her room is the typical teenagers " disaster area " : ) Joyce [ ] Re: Lining up toys > Joyce since your daughter is now 15 going on 16 years old...is she > still as " neat " as she was as a child wanting everything lined up? > > > ===== > Quote
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2006 Report Posted March 24, 2006 Hi this in and of itself does not mean anything. I have three kids - two are absoloutely average ( except being extraordinarily good looking and smart and lovely etc etc) while the middle boy has all sorts of ASD type issues and apraxia ( and is also good looking and smart and lovely). Charlie lines things up because he has to - because if one is out of line it drives him mad, because he has to get it right or the world is just out of synch. The other two often like(d) to line things up because it looks nice, because it is where that toy lives and so they can see them all. These things are just indicators which, when taken with lots of other indicators may mean there is an issue with that child that needs to be looked at. But kids line things up, kids sometimes copy your speech, kids sometimes really just don't like the way their gloves feel, and sometimes they have particular toys or dools or something that lokks nice when they line them up. If there are no other things you are concerned about ( poor eye contact, self stimulatory behaviours, irrational tantrums, lack of pointing, lack of conectedness etc etc ) then don't worry. These things are a matter of intensity and frequency and there needs to be a number of them. Otherwise it is just usual kids stuff. Best wishes Deborah > > My son was recently diagnosed with apraxia of speech (3 yo), no other > developmental problems noted. I am wondering about his habit of > lining up toys? He has been doing this since about 12 months. He has > been doing all sorts of other imaginative play for the last 6 months, > but he always either starts or finishes by lining up all his cars, > block, or whatever. I have noticed a number of postings that mention > 'lining up toys', and am wondering if this is an indicator of apraxia > or something else? > Quote
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