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Guest guest
Posted

Hi Terri

It may also be a sign of Autism. Ask your doctor if he can have an assessment

done for Autism.

hugs

Chrissy

terri <tillmann@...> wrote:

My son was recently diagnosed with apraxia of speech (3 yo), no other

developmental problems noted. I am wondering about his habit of

lining up toys? He has been doing this since about 12 months. He has

been doing all sorts of other imaginative play for the last 6 months,

but he always either starts or finishes by lining up all his cars,

block, or whatever. I have noticed a number of postings that mention

'lining up toys', and am wondering if this is an indicator of apraxia

or something else?

Guest guest
Posted

Although some kids with obsessive-compulsive disorder or autism do

this, if you have no other developmental problems, and the child has

normal receptive speech and behavior...maybe he's just a neat kid!

Peace,

Kathy E.

On Mar 22, 2006, at 6:25 PM, terri wrote:

> My son was recently diagnosed with apraxia of speech (3 yo), no other

> developmental problems noted. I am wondering about his habit of

> lining up toys? He has been doing this since about 12 months. He has

> been doing all sorts of other imaginative play for the last 6 months,

> but he always either starts or finishes by lining up all his cars,

> block, or whatever. I have noticed a number of postings that mention

> 'lining up toys', and am wondering if this is an indicator of apraxia

> or something else?

Guest guest
Posted

My kids never lined anything up. Although they did just start pretend play

in beginning of first grade, but then again they did have each other..

Guest guest
Posted

Terri,

My son also lines up his toys and he's 4.6y.o. and has Apraxia (only) with

slight Hypotonis (low-muscle tone in forearms). I don't think it is a sign

of something else since you just had him seen by a dr. and they didn't note

such. My nuero-developmental pediatrician was concern with his lack of

pretend play and slight eye contact and so she requested more active

participation in this area by ourselves and his therapist and he has

improved in both areas tremendously. As his speech grew; it followed. I

think it's a natural progression. Let not your heart be troubled. This

seems to be a fairly common thing with our kids.

Myra

terri

<tillmann@...>

Sent by: cc:

@yaho Subject:

[ ] Lining up toys

ogroups.com

03/22/2006 06:25 PM

Please respond to

My son was recently diagnosed with apraxia of speech (3 yo), no other

developmental problems noted. I am wondering about his habit of

lining up toys? He has been doing this since about 12 months. He has

been doing all sorts of other imaginative play for the last 6 months,

but he always either starts or finishes by lining up all his cars,

block, or whatever. I have noticed a number of postings that mention

'lining up toys', and am wondering if this is an indicator of apraxia

or something else?

Guest guest
Posted

It could also be a sensory problem.

http://www.tsbvi.edu/Outreach/seehear/fall97/sensory.htm

3. The child lacks variety in play activities. Some children become

very repetitive or stereotypic in playing with toys. Everything may

be flung aside, tapped on a surface, or brought to the mouth.

Another child may prefer only visual activities (TV, videos, looking

at books) while avoiding visual-motor or manipulative toys

(coloring, drawing, clay, construction toys.) Other children may

learn one way to interact with a toy or playground equipment without

adding variations, creative play, or generalizing to other similar

objects. For example, the child may line up toy cars but does not

pretend they are going places or experiment with rolling them down

an incline.

> My son was recently diagnosed with apraxia of speech (3 yo), no

other

> developmental problems noted. I am wondering about his habit of

> lining up toys? He has been doing this since about 12 months. He

has

> been doing all sorts of other imaginative play for the last 6

months,

> but he always either starts or finishes by lining up all his

cars,

> block, or whatever. I have noticed a number of postings that

mention

> 'lining up toys', and am wondering if this is an indicator of

apraxia

> or something else?

>

Guest guest
Posted

My daughter has verbal apraxia and from the first neurologist visit, he said

most definitely she was not autistic. She too enjoyed lining up her hot

wheels cars and one time she even found four or five catepillars outside and

lined them up for a parade!!! ugh!!! : )

Joyce Cerulo

Medway, MA

(daughter Meghan 15 almost 16 years old with verbal apraxia.

Re: [ ] Lining up toys

> Hi Terri

> It may also be a sign of Autism. Ask your doctor if he can have an

assessment done for Autism.

> hugs

> Chrissy

>

> terri <tillmann@...> wrote:

> My son was recently diagnosed with apraxia of speech (3 yo), no other

> developmental problems noted. I am wondering about his habit of

> lining up toys? He has been doing this since about 12 months. He has

> been doing all sorts of other imaginative play for the last 6 months,

> but he always either starts or finishes by lining up all his cars,

> block, or whatever. I have noticed a number of postings that mention

> 'lining up toys', and am wondering if this is an indicator of apraxia

> or something else?

>

Guest guest
Posted

That's right...My son has Sensory issues...how quickly I forgot about it

since many of his sensory issues have dissapated to a a point where I

forget he has it..

It could also be a sensory problem.

http://www.tsbvi.edu/Outreach/seehear/fall97/sensory.htm

3. The child lacks variety in play activities. Some children become

very repetitive or stereotypic in playing with toys. Everything may

be flung aside, tapped on a surface, or brought to the mouth.

Another child may prefer only visual activities (TV, videos, looking

at books) while avoiding visual-motor or manipulative toys

(coloring, drawing, clay, construction toys.) Other children may

learn one way to interact with a toy or playground equipment without

adding variations, creative play, or generalizing to other similar

objects. For example, the child may line up toy cars but does not

pretend they are going places or experiment with rolling them down

an incline.

>

> Hi Terri

> It may also be a sign of Autism. Ask your doctor if he can have

an assessment done for Autism.

> hugs

> Chrissy

Guest guest
Posted

Joyce since your daughter is now 15 going on 16 years old...is she

still as " neat " as she was as a child wanting everything lined up?

=====

Guest guest
Posted

Heck no! Her room is the typical teenagers " disaster area " : )

Joyce

[ ] Re: Lining up toys

> Joyce since your daughter is now 15 going on 16 years old...is she

> still as " neat " as she was as a child wanting everything lined up?

>

>

> =====

>

Guest guest
Posted

I think it's inevitable that if you have an apraxia or dyspraxia dx you look

at autism as a possibility, just as you might look at cerebral palsy or

dyslexia or ADHD/ADD. There is some overlap with all of these dxs and to be on a

listserve at all means that a parent is likely researching every possible dx.

I agree that when you spend time with another child who is profoundly

autistic, it is extremely obvious how different certain behaviors can be from

the

norm. Sometimes I wonder about whether I'd feel that way if I were around a

child with high functioning autism. I have attending a social skills

group at Winner's program in San , CA. It's very

well-regarded out here, and it's also well-known that it caters primarily to

kids with

Asperger's or NV learning disorder. When we joined, I was told that T would be

with 2 other kids who do not stand out as being different. T was doing

things like pulling other kids' toys instead of asking for them at times, and

it

just seemed like a good way to brush up on his social skills and get the

benefit of a kind of supplemntary mini-preschool as well. I was getting

irritated the past few weeks because his teacher, who's also a well-respected

SLP,

was describing him in her weekly class summaries as having issues with

non-verbal communication. I emailed back that I felt she was confusing motor

planning

problems with problems with nonverbal communication because the comments

overlapped with a building game that's too long to get into, but that required

T

to use his hands ONLY to demonstrate the size & shape of blocks & direct his

classmates nonverbally where they should place the blocks to form a building

(sideways, tall, etc.). Anyway, to make a long story short, I finally just

called her and said, " I'm pretty well clued in to terms like nonverbal

communication problems, and I'm just wanting to clarify whether what you're

trying

to say is that he's exhibiting spectrumy-type behavior. " She said she was glad

I asked, because she absolutely was not thinking that, and she was sorry if

that's how I'd been reading it. She just feels that his motor planning issues

have caused him not to progress at the same rate that a " typical " kid would

progress, and she's trying to help by filling in the holes. The funny thing

is, she also said that there were " no children with Asperger's in the group, "

and I had assumed all along that this semi-brilliant kid who knows the

location of all the planets in relation to earth/unusual facts about each one

was

an Asperger's kid. Since at least 90% of this SLP's clients are on the

spectrum, and since she's highly respected and been at this a long while, I

trust

her opinion. Meanwhile, I think my own assumption about this other little boy

is proof of how easily you can " see " issues when looking almost too hard for

them. So I agree with what you wrote below.

I also think that if any educated person does a search of apraxia or

dyspraxia on Google, there is a good chance they will conclude that

dyspraxia/apraxia is/are on the spectrum. I found that out with a close

relative, when she

casually emailed that dyspraxia was " on the autistic spectrum, wasn't it? " So,

again, I kind of think it's inevitable that others will draw this

conclusion, and/or think (or out and out say) that anyone who says otherwise is

in

denial.

In a message dated 3/23/2006 5:12:53 PM Pacific Standard Time,

fopt65@... writes:

I think this is a good example of how overdiagnosing of autism has

happened: " key words " . Everybody now has red flags go off in their

head when the terms spinning, lining up toys, and poor socializing

are mentioned. The difference is TO WHAT DEGREE are they doing

this? Nearly every boy I know lines up army men before mowing them

down, arranges his matchbox cars when playing etc. The difference is

does he ONLY line them up, with no play involved at all? Spinning to

music or playing Ring around the rosey is normal, spinning for hours

at a time is not. " Normal " children enjoy using swingsets in parks,

but they do not " crave " it, or need it to control their behavior.

Socialization skills should be measured realistically, not by

throwing a 2.5 year old into a classroom full of unknown children

during a CPSE examination, with the therapist then stating that the

child clearly did not interact with the others, therefore there

must be autism present.

I still feel that allowing new graduate OT PT and ST into homecare,

without prior experience of normal vs. abnormal has contributed

somewhat to the autism rate of 1 in 166 children. A Supreme Court

judge once stated that he could not define pornography, but " you know

it when you see it " . I find this to be analogous to autistic

behaviors. When you see the behavior of a truly autistic child, it

is so different in terms of the degree and domination of the

behavior, that " you know it when you see it " .

>

> Terri,

> My son also lines up his toys and he's 4.6y.o. and has Apraxia

(only) with

> slight Hypotonis (low-muscle tone in forearms). I don't think it is

a sign

> of something else since you just had him seen by a dr. and they

didn't note

> such. My nuero-developmental pediatrician was concern with his lack

of

> pretend play and slight eye contact and so she requested more active

> participation in this area by ourselves and his therapist and he has

> improved in both areas tremendously. As his speech grew; it

followed. I

> think it's a natural progression. Let not your heart be troubled.

This

> seems to be a fairly common thing with our kids.

>

> Myra

Guest guest
Posted

I would say if you are questioning maybe autism go to an autism web site and

most of them have check lists and you will know if your child fits the criteria

for possible autism. With asd you will see allot of self stim and lack of eye

contact often no response when called or go in the other direction.Hows the

eating going is there any problems there? ASD kids have alot of eating

issues.Mic dangles everything. 3 is the usual age asd symptons start to be

apparent to parents. On the other hand my brother now 48 used to line up

hundreds of little tiny army men Germans and Americans and spend hours doing

this. He was in his own little world. He was a picky eater always and he could

not learn to read until he was 8 or 9 and my mom spent countless hours teaching

him. He had a speech therapists once a week in grammar school, by todays

standards he may have come very close to asd.He would yell at me if he knew I

said this.Makes me laugh. Laurie

Guest guest
Posted

I think this is a good example of how overdiagnosing of autism has

happened: " key words " . Everybody now has red flags go off in their

head when the terms spinning, lining up toys, and poor socializing

are mentioned. The difference is TO WHAT DEGREE are they doing

this? Nearly every boy I know lines up army men before mowing them

down, arranges his matchbox cars when playing etc. The difference is

does he ONLY line them up, with no play involved at all? Spinning to

music or playing Ring around the rosey is normal, spinning for hours

at a time is not. " Normal " children enjoy using swingsets in parks,

but they do not " crave " it, or need it to control their behavior.

Socialization skills should be measured realistically, not by

throwing a 2.5 year old into a classroom full of unknown children

during a CPSE examination, with the therapist then stating that the

child clearly did not interact with the others, therefore there

must be autism present.

I still feel that allowing new graduate OT PT and ST into homecare,

without prior experience of normal vs. abnormal has contributed

somewhat to the autism rate of 1 in 166 children. A Supreme Court

judge once stated that he could not define pornography, but " you know

it when you see it " . I find this to be analogous to autistic

behaviors. When you see the behavior of a truly autistic child, it

is so different in terms of the degree and domination of the

behavior, that " you know it when you see it " .

>

> Terri,

> My son also lines up his toys and he's 4.6y.o. and has Apraxia

(only) with

> slight Hypotonis (low-muscle tone in forearms). I don't think it is

a sign

> of something else since you just had him seen by a dr. and they

didn't note

> such. My nuero-developmental pediatrician was concern with his lack

of

> pretend play and slight eye contact and so she requested more active

> participation in this area by ourselves and his therapist and he has

> improved in both areas tremendously. As his speech grew; it

followed. I

> think it's a natural progression. Let not your heart be troubled.

This

> seems to be a fairly common thing with our kids.

>

> Myra

>

>

>

>

terri

> <tillmann@...> To:

> Sent by:

cc:

> @yaho Subject:

[ ] Lining up

toys

>

ogroups.com

>

>

> 03/22/2006 06:25

PM

> Please respond

to

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> My son was recently diagnosed with apraxia of speech (3 yo), no

other

> developmental problems noted. I am wondering about his habit of

> lining up toys? He has been doing this since about 12 months. He

has

> been doing all sorts of other imaginative play for the last 6

months,

> but he always either starts or finishes by lining up all his cars,

> block, or whatever. I have noticed a number of postings that

mention

> 'lining up toys', and am wondering if this is an indicator of

apraxia

> or something else?

>

>

>

>

>

>

Guest guest
Posted

Both my " typical " 6.5 yr old and apraxic 4.5 yr old lined up their toys

until around age 4. My mother reports that my brother and I all did this

too. In particular my children would line up matchbox cars at the start of

play then move each around individually. My 4 yr old did it a little more

than my 6 yr old did. He also liked to line up his brother's rescue heros

on the edge of the coffee table then knock them down one by one squealing

in delight! My grandmother remembers my father lining up toys a lot,

particularly cars. I used to go into my mom's thread drawer and put all

her threads in rainbow order. I was very specific with this. My crayons

and colored pencils were like this too.

No one in our family has autism (although my son was misdiagnosed initially

- he's not officially undiagnosed, but everyone is 99% sure he's not

anywhere on the spectrum.) No one has OCD or neurological issues aside

from my brother who has Tourettes. What we do have in common is logical,

organized scientific minds! We were all gifted in math and pursued further

studies in science. My father is a Chem E. My brother has a double PhD in

EE and some specific kind of physics. I was a PhD candidate in

Biochemistry until I left to follow a different course in life. So far my

6.5 yr old appears to be gifted in math (we haven't tested him for gifted,

but we homeschool and he is far ahead of his grade and needs almost no

guidance from me to do his work) and he understands many scientific

concepts naturally with no explanation. My little one is too minimally

verbal to really tell what is going on, but he's very good at spacial

concepts from what we can tell non-verbally.

In MY family I think lining up toys is just a demonstration of how our

minds think. It can mean different things in different children, but that

alone should not be a reason to assume autism or something else is going

on. (I'm really far behind on mail and I haven't seen the original post

yet so I might be assuming it was posted asking something it wasn't.) If

there are other signs by all means pursue more evaluations, but don't let

JUST lining up toys unduly alarm you. I've seen countless neuro-typical

kids with this behavior, boys usually outnumber girls in my observations.

Miche

Guest guest
Posted

LOL!!!! I have two rooms like a Cyclone has hit!!! Need boots to get in the door

Chrissy

Joyce Cerulo <Jcerulo@...> wrote:

Heck no! Her room is the typical teenagers " disaster area " : )

Joyce

[ ] Re: Lining up toys

> Joyce since your daughter is now 15 going on 16 years old...is she

> still as " neat " as she was as a child wanting everything lined up?

>

>

> =====

>

Guest guest
Posted

Hi

this in and of itself does not mean anything. I have three kids - two

are absoloutely average ( except being extraordinarily good looking

and smart and lovely etc etc) while the middle boy has all sorts of

ASD type issues and apraxia ( and is also good looking and smart and

lovely).

Charlie lines things up because he has to - because if one is out of

line it drives him mad, because he has to get it right or the world

is just out of synch. The other two often like(d) to line things up

because it looks nice, because it is where that toy lives and so they

can see them all.

These things are just indicators which, when taken with lots of other

indicators may mean there is an issue with that child that needs to

be looked at. But kids line things up, kids sometimes copy your

speech, kids sometimes really just don't like the way their gloves

feel, and sometimes they have particular toys or dools or something

that lokks nice when they line them up.

If there are no other things you are concerned about ( poor eye

contact, self stimulatory behaviours, irrational tantrums, lack of

pointing, lack of conectedness etc etc ) then don't worry.

These things are a matter of intensity and frequency and there needs

to be a number of them. Otherwise it is just usual kids stuff.

Best wishes

Deborah

>

> My son was recently diagnosed with apraxia of speech (3 yo), no

other

> developmental problems noted. I am wondering about his habit of

> lining up toys? He has been doing this since about 12 months. He

has

> been doing all sorts of other imaginative play for the last 6

months,

> but he always either starts or finishes by lining up all his cars,

> block, or whatever. I have noticed a number of postings that

mention

> 'lining up toys', and am wondering if this is an indicator of

apraxia

> or something else?

>

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