Re: Apraxia...Dyspraxia...Autism....I am so confused!

[Guest guest]

Hi Shane and Robin!

Sensory Integration Dysfunction or DSI, is a separate unique

diagnosis that can stand alone or be found co existing in other

conditions -including but not limited to autism. Sensory Integration

Dysfunction can go undetected when mild, or could be acquired after

a head injury, or as a symptom of Transverse Myelopathy.

http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/jhtmc/clinical.htm

Again just because it looks, talks and walks like a duck -could be a

kid trick or treating..doesn't mean it's auto-autism.

(either that or you can get autism from a car accident if you hit

your head and develop sensory issues!)

Sounds like you are doing all the right things just in case -and

that's the best way to go. As you may recall from your brother -

therapy for autism itself is not the same as therapy for apraxia.

There is not enough ST and OT in ABA approaches. Therapy for

sensory issues however are always appropriate for anyone who is

diagnosed as having sensory issues -no matter what the other

diagnosis are. Find out what each diagnosis is that you are dealing

with and provide appropriate therapies for each and it won't be so

confusing. At 24 months your child could be diagnosed with oral

apraxia -but not verbal. At 24 months typically the diagnosis would

be suspected apraxia and you could start appropriate therapy for

apraxia just in case. Won't hurt and could help if not

apraxic...but will be invaluable if apraxic.

And in the US -apraxia and dyspraxia mean the same thing.

Take one step at a time -we are here for you as a group and we have

tons of parents and professionals here who can lead you down the

early stages of the road you are now on. And it's great you read

The Late Talker...I'm one of the co authors and know we put info in

there to help parents just like you!

=====

[Guest guest]

Hi,

My child also had multiple specialists calling her different things....her

official diagnosis was high functioning PDD-NOS, moderate verbal apraxia,

sensory processing disorder, severe speech delay, and hypotonia. She was very

loving, had okay eye contact, and did not have meltdowns. None-the-less, she had

issues...including excema and a very poor immune system.

Long story short, after coming to this great list first and then branching out

into the autism spectrum ones, we were able to diagnose her correctly. Beyond

any reasonable doubt, unequivocally, no-mistaking it....she had mercury

poisoning. Hair tests, urine tests, and stool tests all confirmed it. Chelating

has reversed her conditions almost 100%. She will enter kindergarten in two

weeks mainstreamed needing speech therapy once a week.

I realize not everyone's child is like my daughter. I'm not saying all children

with issues have to be mercury poisoned. She also had yeast issues and viral

issues (making antibodies to the measles virus like crazy). But at the end of

the day, mercury was her biggest problem. It's an avenue worth pursuing, even if

it doesn't turn out to be your child's. It can't hurt to rule it out.

If one was to line up all of the symptoms of mercury poisoning with all of the

symptoms of the autism spectrum, including apraxia, ADD/ADHD, and many other of

the disorders that plague our children, there are no differences. They aren't

kind of similar...they are identical. Anyone interested in more info may email

me off line. I'm happy to help.

-------------- Original message --------------

From: " Shane H. " <robin.harmon@...>

If anyone can shed some light on this for me, I would be so grateful.

I have been going through evaluations with my almost 24 month old son

for about 4 months now. We started with his developmental

pediatrician, then moved into the EI system's three, seperate

evaluators, and lastly have sought out evaluations from our Children's

hospital for ST, OT and soon PT.

The dev. pediatrician did not feel he was on the ASD spectrum, but had

a severe commuinication delay. The 1st SLP suspected severe verbal

with moderate oral apraxia. The 2nd SLP said age appropriate receptive

skills, severe expressive skills, with apraxic like symptoms. The OT

says he has a mild hypotonia (truncal) and sensory issues and wants him

to have a PT evaluation.

So where does all of this lead me? I read the book the late talker.

It explained that apraxic children often have a mild hypotonia and

sensory issues, which may just peg my son to a tee. He has all the

classic verbal issues...drooling, adding vowel sounds " up-ah " , lots of

groping. However, I am confused. I have been doing research on a lot

of different disorders, and cannot seem to figure out where the line is

between some of them.

If a child has verbal/oral apraxia, sensory issues, and a hypotonia,

what is the main difference between this and dyspraxia?

And then there is autism. So far, I hear that my son is not on the

spectrum...but the sensory issues make me wonder (loves to touch the

ends of his hair with his thumb, loves visual stuff like colors and is

even advanced with this, sensory seeking with feet and hands). By the

way - I actually have a lot of sensory issues and they still are a

problem for me as an adult.

It seems that a lot of the issues that apraxic children have can cross

over to the autistic diagnosis, except for the social part? Is this

correct?

My son has no social issues that can be recognized yet. Good eye

contact, loves other kids, pretend play, pointing, etc. His

evaluations always include that he is " extremely social " . But I still

wonder if he has some form of autism? I am so confused. The reason I

am still wondering about autism is because my brother is autistic. I

have to say that he acted very differently from my son...no eye contact

until 16, frequent and intense meltdowns over sensory things (like

spinning signs), no pretend play, severe social issues...but the family

history makes it more of a possibility. Even is he is not autistic

now, could he suddenly regress socially?

I do not know what to look for anymore. Every evaluation is filled

with so many questions...my head is spinning. Do I have to wait until

he is three to really know what his challenges are and how to help

him? Regardless of his label, I just want to get him the right kind of

help so that he can have the brightest future possible.

[Guest guest]

Robin,

Welcome! The lines of diagnoses seem to be so blurry. Yes, many

apraxic kids have sensory issues and do not get an autism diagnosis -

but some do. None of the evaluations you've had have pointed to ASD,

and if an expert does say someday that your son is autistic you'll

have to make up your own mind whether you want to agree with that and

what you want to do about it.

With your family history of autism and sensory problems, I strongly

urge you to avoid any vaccines that contain mercury (like the flu

shot, but you can get a preservative-free version if you look around)

and to do your own research into the other vaccines to make up your

own mind about them. Kids can still regress after age 2 into an

autism diagnosis, and I have " met " online many parents who claim that

vaccines were the trigger for their kids. Regardless of whether you

believe them, there really is no reason to inject mercury into a young

child or anyone for that matter. Another thing you can do to help

prevent regression (and keep your son healthy) is to give him vitamins

and minerals to boost the immune system (I'm thinking C, E, zinc,

magnesium, and fish oils to name a few but I'm not a doctor or

nutritionist). And of course, you can go further and look into

biomedial treatments for apraxia and autism.

If your feeling adventurous and have the cash to do it, you may want

to look into Dr. Amy Yasko's genetic testing and protocol at

www.autismanswer.com (no need to be dx) - it could shed some light on

why you and your brother have the sensory issues too.

Kerri

> I have to say that he acted very differently from my son...no eye

contact

> until 16, frequent and intense meltdowns over sensory things (like

> spinning signs), no pretend play, severe social issues...but the

family

> history makes it more of a possibility. Even is he is not autistic

> now, could he suddenly regress socially?

[Guest guest]

I heard a therapist once describe the differences between a child on the

spectrum vs not as ASD children were primarily involved/locked within their own

heads/minds whereas a non autistic child was primarily involved in the world

around him/her. Your child's social strengths are a good indicator of not

being on the spectrum. Many symptoms overlap diagnoses (speech delays, sensory

issues, learning disabilities, auditory processing, motor planning and tone)

from autism to ADD to CP to many others.

It is good you are getting OT,PT, SLP, reports. I would still suggest you

find a good neuropsychologist to help you understand how your child's brain

works, learns so that you can translate that information into a school education

and service delivery plan (IEP). It takes time to get all this information

together but over time working on these areas will make a difference for your

child.

" Shane H. " <robin.harmon@...> wrote:

If anyone can shed some light on this for me, I would be so grateful.

I have been going through evaluations with my almost 24 month old son

for about 4 months now. We started with his developmental

pediatrician, then moved into the EI system's three, seperate

evaluators, and lastly have sought out evaluations from our Children's

hospital for ST, OT and soon PT.

The dev. pediatrician did not feel he was on the ASD spectrum, but had

a severe commuinication delay. The 1st SLP suspected severe verbal

with moderate oral apraxia. The 2nd SLP said age appropriate receptive

skills, severe expressive skills, with apraxic like symptoms. The OT

says he has a mild hypotonia (truncal) and sensory issues and wants him

to have a PT evaluation.

So where does all of this lead me? I read the book the late talker.

It explained that apraxic children often have a mild hypotonia and

sensory issues, which may just peg my son to a tee. He has all the

classic verbal issues...drooling, adding vowel sounds " up-ah " , lots of

groping. However, I am confused. I have been doing research on a lot

of different disorders, and cannot seem to figure out where the line is

between some of them.

If a child has verbal/oral apraxia, sensory issues, and a hypotonia,

what is the main difference between this and dyspraxia?

And then there is autism. So far, I hear that my son is not on the

spectrum...but the sensory issues make me wonder (loves to touch the

ends of his hair with his thumb, loves visual stuff like colors and is

even advanced with this, sensory seeking with feet and hands). By the

way - I actually have a lot of sensory issues and they still are a

problem for me as an adult.

It seems that a lot of the issues that apraxic children have can cross

over to the autistic diagnosis, except for the social part? Is this

correct?

My son has no social issues that can be recognized yet. Good eye

contact, loves other kids, pretend play, pointing, etc. His

evaluations always include that he is " extremely social " . But I still

wonder if he has some form of autism? I am so confused. The reason I

am still wondering about autism is because my brother is autistic. I

have to say that he acted very differently from my son...no eye contact

until 16, frequent and intense meltdowns over sensory things (like

spinning signs), no pretend play, severe social issues...but the family

history makes it more of a possibility. Even is he is not autistic

now, could he suddenly regress socially?

I do not know what to look for anymore. Every evaluation is filled

with so many questions...my head is spinning. Do I have to wait until

he is three to really know what his challenges are and how to help

him? Regardless of his label, I just want to get him the right kind of

help so that he can have the brightest future possible.

[Guest guest]

,

Was the test for mercury a blood test?

julieobradovic@... wrote:

Hi,

My child also had multiple specialists calling her different things....her

official diagnosis was high functioning PDD-NOS, moderate verbal apraxia,

sensory processing disorder, severe speech delay, and hypotonia. She was very

loving, had okay eye contact, and did not have meltdowns. None-the-less, she had

issues...including excema and a very poor immune system.

Long story short, after coming to this great list first and then branching out

into the autism spectrum ones, we were able to diagnose her correctly. Beyond

any reasonable doubt, unequivocally, no-mistaking it....she had mercury

poisoning. Hair tests, urine tests, and stool tests all confirmed it. Chelating

has reversed her conditions almost 100%. She will enter kindergarten in two

weeks mainstreamed needing speech therapy once a week.

I realize not everyone's child is like my daughter. I'm not saying all children

with issues have to be mercury poisoned. She also had yeast issues and viral

issues (making antibodies to the measles virus like crazy). But at the end of

the day, mercury was her biggest problem. It's an avenue worth pursuing, even if

it doesn't turn out to be your child's. It can't hurt to rule it out.

If one was to line up all of the symptoms of mercury poisoning with all of the

symptoms of the autism spectrum, including apraxia, ADD/ADHD, and many other of

the disorders that plague our children, there are no differences. They aren't

kind of similar...they are identical. Anyone interested in more info may email

me off line. I'm happy to help.

-------------- Original message --------------

From: " Shane H. " <robin.harmon@...>

If anyone can shed some light on this for me, I would be so grateful.

I have been going through evaluations with my almost 24 month old son

for about 4 months now. We started with his developmental

pediatrician, then moved into the EI system's three, seperate

evaluators, and lastly have sought out evaluations from our Children's

hospital for ST, OT and soon PT.

The dev. pediatrician did not feel he was on the ASD spectrum, but had

a severe commuinication delay. The 1st SLP suspected severe verbal

with moderate oral apraxia. The 2nd SLP said age appropriate receptive

skills, severe expressive skills, with apraxic like symptoms. The OT

says he has a mild hypotonia (truncal) and sensory issues and wants him

to have a PT evaluation.

So where does all of this lead me? I read the book the late talker.

It explained that apraxic children often have a mild hypotonia and

sensory issues, which may just peg my son to a tee. He has all the

classic verbal issues...drooling, adding vowel sounds " up-ah " , lots of

groping. However, I am confused. I have been doing research on a lot

of different disorders, and cannot seem to figure out where the line is

between some of them.

If a child has verbal/oral apraxia, sensory issues, and a hypotonia,

what is the main difference between this and dyspraxia?

And then there is autism. So far, I hear that my son is not on the

spectrum...but the sensory issues make me wonder (loves to touch the

ends of his hair with his thumb, loves visual stuff like colors and is

even advanced with this, sensory seeking with feet and hands). By the

way - I actually have a lot of sensory issues and they still are a

problem for me as an adult.

It seems that a lot of the issues that apraxic children have can cross

over to the autistic diagnosis, except for the social part? Is this

correct?

My son has no social issues that can be recognized yet. Good eye

contact, loves other kids, pretend play, pointing, etc. His

evaluations always include that he is " extremely social " . But I still

wonder if he has some form of autism? I am so confused. The reason I

am still wondering about autism is because my brother is autistic. I

have to say that he acted very differently from my son...no eye contact

until 16, frequent and intense meltdowns over sensory things (like

spinning signs), no pretend play, severe social issues...but the family

history makes it more of a possibility. Even is he is not autistic

now, could he suddenly regress socially?

I do not know what to look for anymore. Every evaluation is filled

with so many questions...my head is spinning. Do I have to wait until

he is three to really know what his challenges are and how to help

him? Regardless of his label, I just want to get him the right kind of

help so that he can have the brightest future possible.

[Guest guest]

Hi Shane and Robin!

Sensory Integration Dysfunction or DSI, is a separate unique

diagnosis that can stand alone or be found co existing in other

conditions -including but not limited to autism. Sensory Integration

Dysfunction can go undetected when mild, or could be acquired after

a head injury, or as a symptom of Transverse Myelopathy.

http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/jhtmc/clinical.htm

Again just because it looks, talks and walks like a duck -could be a

kid trick or treating..doesn't mean it's auto-autism.

(either that or you can get autism from a car accident if you hit

your head and develop sensory issues!)

Sounds like you are doing all the right things just in case -and

that's the best way to go. As you may recall from your brother -

therapy for autism itself is not the same as therapy for apraxia.

There is not enough ST and OT in ABA approaches. Therapy for

sensory issues however are always appropriate for anyone who is

diagnosed as having sensory issues -no matter what the other

diagnosis are. Find out what each diagnosis is that you are dealing

with and provide appropriate therapies for each and it won't be so

confusing. At 24 months your child could be diagnosed with oral

apraxia -but not verbal. At 24 months typically the diagnosis would

be suspected apraxia and you could start appropriate therapy for

apraxia just in case. Won't hurt and could help if not

apraxic...but will be invaluable if apraxic.

And in the US -apraxia and dyspraxia mean the same thing.

Take one step at a time -we are here for you as a group and we have

tons of parents and professionals here who can lead you down the

early stages of the road you are now on. And it's great you read

The Late Talker...I'm one of the co authors and know we put info in

there to help parents just like you!

=====

[Guest guest]

Wow. Thank you all so much for the information. My son will be two

next week and is schedulded to receive his next vaccinations shortly

after. I will discuss the mercury issue with his doctor before he

receives any vaccinations. Is mercury poisoning something that I can

ask his pediatrician to test for or will I have to go to a hospital?

>

> Robin,

>

> Welcome! The lines of diagnoses seem to be so blurry. Yes, many

> apraxic kids have sensory issues and do not get an autism

diagnosis -

> but some do. None of the evaluations you've had have pointed to

ASD,

> and if an expert does say someday that your son is autistic you'll

> have to make up your own mind whether you want to agree with that

and

> what you want to do about it.

>

> With your family history of autism and sensory problems, I strongly

> urge you to avoid any vaccines that contain mercury (like the flu

> shot, but you can get a preservative-free version if you look

around)

> and to do your own research into the other vaccines to make up your

> own mind about them. Kids can still regress after age 2 into an

> autism diagnosis, and I have " met " online many parents who claim

that

> vaccines were the trigger for their kids. Regardless of whether

you

> believe them, there really is no reason to inject mercury into a

young

> child or anyone for that matter. Another thing you can do to help

> prevent regression (and keep your son healthy) is to give him

vitamins

> and minerals to boost the immune system (I'm thinking C, E, zinc,

> magnesium, and fish oils to name a few but I'm not a doctor or

> nutritionist). And of course, you can go further and look into

> biomedial treatments for apraxia and autism.

>

> If your feeling adventurous and have the cash to do it, you may

want

> to look into Dr. Amy Yasko's genetic testing and protocol at

> www.autismanswer.com (no need to be dx) - it could shed some light

on

> why you and your brother have the sensory issues too.

>

> Kerri

>

> > I have to say that he acted very differently from my son...no eye

> contact

> > until 16, frequent and intense meltdowns over sensory things

(like

> > spinning signs), no pretend play, severe social issues...but the

> family

> > history makes it more of a possibility. Even is he is not

autistic

> > now, could he suddenly regress socially?

>

[Guest guest]

Hi,

My child also had multiple specialists calling her different things....her

official diagnosis was high functioning PDD-NOS, moderate verbal apraxia,

sensory processing disorder, severe speech delay, and hypotonia. She was very

loving, had okay eye contact, and did not have meltdowns. None-the-less, she had

issues...including excema and a very poor immune system.

Long story short, after coming to this great list first and then branching out

into the autism spectrum ones, we were able to diagnose her correctly. Beyond

any reasonable doubt, unequivocally, no-mistaking it....she had mercury

poisoning. Hair tests, urine tests, and stool tests all confirmed it. Chelating

has reversed her conditions almost 100%. She will enter kindergarten in two

weeks mainstreamed needing speech therapy once a week.

I realize not everyone's child is like my daughter. I'm not saying all children

with issues have to be mercury poisoned. She also had yeast issues and viral

issues (making antibodies to the measles virus like crazy). But at the end of

the day, mercury was her biggest problem. It's an avenue worth pursuing, even if

it doesn't turn out to be your child's. It can't hurt to rule it out.

If one was to line up all of the symptoms of mercury poisoning with all of the

symptoms of the autism spectrum, including apraxia, ADD/ADHD, and many other of

the disorders that plague our children, there are no differences. They aren't

kind of similar...they are identical. Anyone interested in more info may email

me off line. I'm happy to help.

-------------- Original message --------------

From: " Shane H. " <robin.harmon@...>

If anyone can shed some light on this for me, I would be so grateful.

I have been going through evaluations with my almost 24 month old son

for about 4 months now. We started with his developmental

pediatrician, then moved into the EI system's three, seperate

evaluators, and lastly have sought out evaluations from our Children's

hospital for ST, OT and soon PT.

The dev. pediatrician did not feel he was on the ASD spectrum, but had

a severe commuinication delay. The 1st SLP suspected severe verbal

with moderate oral apraxia. The 2nd SLP said age appropriate receptive

skills, severe expressive skills, with apraxic like symptoms. The OT

says he has a mild hypotonia (truncal) and sensory issues and wants him

to have a PT evaluation.

So where does all of this lead me? I read the book the late talker.

It explained that apraxic children often have a mild hypotonia and

sensory issues, which may just peg my son to a tee. He has all the

classic verbal issues...drooling, adding vowel sounds " up-ah " , lots of

groping. However, I am confused. I have been doing research on a lot

of different disorders, and cannot seem to figure out where the line is

between some of them.

If a child has verbal/oral apraxia, sensory issues, and a hypotonia,

what is the main difference between this and dyspraxia?

And then there is autism. So far, I hear that my son is not on the

spectrum...but the sensory issues make me wonder (loves to touch the

ends of his hair with his thumb, loves visual stuff like colors and is

even advanced with this, sensory seeking with feet and hands). By the

way - I actually have a lot of sensory issues and they still are a

problem for me as an adult.

It seems that a lot of the issues that apraxic children have can cross

over to the autistic diagnosis, except for the social part? Is this

correct?

My son has no social issues that can be recognized yet. Good eye

contact, loves other kids, pretend play, pointing, etc. His

evaluations always include that he is " extremely social " . But I still

wonder if he has some form of autism? I am so confused. The reason I

am still wondering about autism is because my brother is autistic. I

have to say that he acted very differently from my son...no eye contact

until 16, frequent and intense meltdowns over sensory things (like

spinning signs), no pretend play, severe social issues...but the family

history makes it more of a possibility. Even is he is not autistic

now, could he suddenly regress socially?

I do not know what to look for anymore. Every evaluation is filled

with so many questions...my head is spinning. Do I have to wait until

he is three to really know what his challenges are and how to help

him? Regardless of his label, I just want to get him the right kind of

help so that he can have the brightest future possible.

[Guest guest]

Robin,

Welcome! The lines of diagnoses seem to be so blurry. Yes, many

apraxic kids have sensory issues and do not get an autism diagnosis -

but some do. None of the evaluations you've had have pointed to ASD,

and if an expert does say someday that your son is autistic you'll

have to make up your own mind whether you want to agree with that and

what you want to do about it.

With your family history of autism and sensory problems, I strongly

urge you to avoid any vaccines that contain mercury (like the flu

shot, but you can get a preservative-free version if you look around)

and to do your own research into the other vaccines to make up your

own mind about them. Kids can still regress after age 2 into an

autism diagnosis, and I have " met " online many parents who claim that

vaccines were the trigger for their kids. Regardless of whether you

believe them, there really is no reason to inject mercury into a young

child or anyone for that matter. Another thing you can do to help

prevent regression (and keep your son healthy) is to give him vitamins

and minerals to boost the immune system (I'm thinking C, E, zinc,

magnesium, and fish oils to name a few but I'm not a doctor or

nutritionist). And of course, you can go further and look into

biomedial treatments for apraxia and autism.

If your feeling adventurous and have the cash to do it, you may want

to look into Dr. Amy Yasko's genetic testing and protocol at

www.autismanswer.com (no need to be dx) - it could shed some light on

why you and your brother have the sensory issues too.

Kerri

> I have to say that he acted very differently from my son...no eye

contact

> until 16, frequent and intense meltdowns over sensory things (like

> spinning signs), no pretend play, severe social issues...but the

family

> history makes it more of a possibility. Even is he is not autistic

> now, could he suddenly regress socially?

[Guest guest]

I heard a therapist once describe the differences between a child on the

spectrum vs not as ASD children were primarily involved/locked within their own

heads/minds whereas a non autistic child was primarily involved in the world

around him/her. Your child's social strengths are a good indicator of not

being on the spectrum. Many symptoms overlap diagnoses (speech delays, sensory

issues, learning disabilities, auditory processing, motor planning and tone)

from autism to ADD to CP to many others.

It is good you are getting OT,PT, SLP, reports. I would still suggest you

find a good neuropsychologist to help you understand how your child's brain

works, learns so that you can translate that information into a school education

and service delivery plan (IEP). It takes time to get all this information

together but over time working on these areas will make a difference for your

child.

" Shane H. " <robin.harmon@...> wrote:

If anyone can shed some light on this for me, I would be so grateful.

I have been going through evaluations with my almost 24 month old son

for about 4 months now. We started with his developmental

pediatrician, then moved into the EI system's three, seperate

evaluators, and lastly have sought out evaluations from our Children's

hospital for ST, OT and soon PT.

The dev. pediatrician did not feel he was on the ASD spectrum, but had

a severe commuinication delay. The 1st SLP suspected severe verbal

with moderate oral apraxia. The 2nd SLP said age appropriate receptive

skills, severe expressive skills, with apraxic like symptoms. The OT

says he has a mild hypotonia (truncal) and sensory issues and wants him

to have a PT evaluation.

So where does all of this lead me? I read the book the late talker.

It explained that apraxic children often have a mild hypotonia and

sensory issues, which may just peg my son to a tee. He has all the

classic verbal issues...drooling, adding vowel sounds " up-ah " , lots of

groping. However, I am confused. I have been doing research on a lot

of different disorders, and cannot seem to figure out where the line is

between some of them.

If a child has verbal/oral apraxia, sensory issues, and a hypotonia,

what is the main difference between this and dyspraxia?

And then there is autism. So far, I hear that my son is not on the

spectrum...but the sensory issues make me wonder (loves to touch the

ends of his hair with his thumb, loves visual stuff like colors and is

even advanced with this, sensory seeking with feet and hands). By the

way - I actually have a lot of sensory issues and they still are a

problem for me as an adult.

It seems that a lot of the issues that apraxic children have can cross

over to the autistic diagnosis, except for the social part? Is this

correct?

My son has no social issues that can be recognized yet. Good eye

contact, loves other kids, pretend play, pointing, etc. His

evaluations always include that he is " extremely social " . But I still

wonder if he has some form of autism? I am so confused. The reason I

am still wondering about autism is because my brother is autistic. I

have to say that he acted very differently from my son...no eye contact

until 16, frequent and intense meltdowns over sensory things (like

spinning signs), no pretend play, severe social issues...but the family

history makes it more of a possibility. Even is he is not autistic

now, could he suddenly regress socially?

I do not know what to look for anymore. Every evaluation is filled

with so many questions...my head is spinning. Do I have to wait until

he is three to really know what his challenges are and how to help

him? Regardless of his label, I just want to get him the right kind of

help so that he can have the brightest future possible.

[Guest guest]

,

Was the test for mercury a blood test?

julieobradovic@... wrote:

Hi,

My child also had multiple specialists calling her different things....her

official diagnosis was high functioning PDD-NOS, moderate verbal apraxia,

sensory processing disorder, severe speech delay, and hypotonia. She was very

loving, had okay eye contact, and did not have meltdowns. None-the-less, she had

issues...including excema and a very poor immune system.

Long story short, after coming to this great list first and then branching out

into the autism spectrum ones, we were able to diagnose her correctly. Beyond

any reasonable doubt, unequivocally, no-mistaking it....she had mercury

poisoning. Hair tests, urine tests, and stool tests all confirmed it. Chelating

has reversed her conditions almost 100%. She will enter kindergarten in two

weeks mainstreamed needing speech therapy once a week.

I realize not everyone's child is like my daughter. I'm not saying all children

with issues have to be mercury poisoned. She also had yeast issues and viral

issues (making antibodies to the measles virus like crazy). But at the end of

the day, mercury was her biggest problem. It's an avenue worth pursuing, even if

it doesn't turn out to be your child's. It can't hurt to rule it out.

If one was to line up all of the symptoms of mercury poisoning with all of the

symptoms of the autism spectrum, including apraxia, ADD/ADHD, and many other of

the disorders that plague our children, there are no differences. They aren't

kind of similar...they are identical. Anyone interested in more info may email

me off line. I'm happy to help.

-------------- Original message --------------

From: " Shane H. " <robin.harmon@...>

If anyone can shed some light on this for me, I would be so grateful.

I have been going through evaluations with my almost 24 month old son

for about 4 months now. We started with his developmental

pediatrician, then moved into the EI system's three, seperate

evaluators, and lastly have sought out evaluations from our Children's

hospital for ST, OT and soon PT.

The dev. pediatrician did not feel he was on the ASD spectrum, but had

a severe commuinication delay. The 1st SLP suspected severe verbal

with moderate oral apraxia. The 2nd SLP said age appropriate receptive

skills, severe expressive skills, with apraxic like symptoms. The OT

says he has a mild hypotonia (truncal) and sensory issues and wants him

to have a PT evaluation.

So where does all of this lead me? I read the book the late talker.

It explained that apraxic children often have a mild hypotonia and

sensory issues, which may just peg my son to a tee. He has all the

classic verbal issues...drooling, adding vowel sounds " up-ah " , lots of

groping. However, I am confused. I have been doing research on a lot

of different disorders, and cannot seem to figure out where the line is

between some of them.

If a child has verbal/oral apraxia, sensory issues, and a hypotonia,

what is the main difference between this and dyspraxia?

And then there is autism. So far, I hear that my son is not on the

spectrum...but the sensory issues make me wonder (loves to touch the

ends of his hair with his thumb, loves visual stuff like colors and is

even advanced with this, sensory seeking with feet and hands). By the

way - I actually have a lot of sensory issues and they still are a

problem for me as an adult.

It seems that a lot of the issues that apraxic children have can cross

over to the autistic diagnosis, except for the social part? Is this

correct?

My son has no social issues that can be recognized yet. Good eye

contact, loves other kids, pretend play, pointing, etc. His

evaluations always include that he is " extremely social " . But I still

wonder if he has some form of autism? I am so confused. The reason I

am still wondering about autism is because my brother is autistic. I

have to say that he acted very differently from my son...no eye contact

until 16, frequent and intense meltdowns over sensory things (like

spinning signs), no pretend play, severe social issues...but the family

history makes it more of a possibility. Even is he is not autistic

now, could he suddenly regress socially?

I do not know what to look for anymore. Every evaluation is filled

with so many questions...my head is spinning. Do I have to wait until

he is three to really know what his challenges are and how to help

him? Regardless of his label, I just want to get him the right kind of

help so that he can have the brightest future possible.

[Guest guest]

>

> ,

>

> Was the test for mercury a blood test?

>

You usually cannot just " do a blood test " for mercury. If there has been recent

exposure

(within the past six weeks) then an RBC mercury might be high. But usually

mercury is

sequestered into the fat and brain tissues. Sometimes hair tests are done but

be

warned...if other metals are high and mercury is low or near zero it may mean

your child is

a " non-excretor " of mercury and these children have some of the worst ASD

disorders.

When they receive chelation treatment a lot of mercury eventually comes out.

Look for these things: are there a lot of autoimmune disease problems in your

family

history? Lupus, arthritis, diabetes, ITP, scleroderma in any close relatives?

Have you had

RhoGam injections in past pregnancies when it still had thimerosal mercury in

it? Do you

have a lot of dental amalgams in your teeth? And the history of autism in your

brother is a

warning sign. Your family may be one of those genetically vulnerable ones. Take

care!

And never, never vaccinate if a child is sick or feverish or even sniffly. Just

say no!

Spreading out the vaccines and giving extra vitamin C is an option for some. We

have

genetic humoral immune deficiencies in our family and my DGS had the live

chickenpox

vaccine on his first birthday. He had ear infections and severe receptive and

expressive

speech delay, oral-sensory problems, etc. and lost eye contact and joint

attention right

after that. Just after his fourth birthday, he had shingles. And atypical

pneumonia. His

pediatrician gave him acyclovir, and after two years of speech therapy, his

articulation

suddenly became age-appropriate.

ProEFA helped him before. But I saw such an awful regression between 9 months

and 13

months (coming in from out of state as a grandma) that I also blame the

chickenpox

vaccine as well as a whole lot of other factors. He's older than your child so

he got a

mercury-containing hep B vaccine at age one day. Our family is riddled with

autoimmune

disease and mercury " allergies. " My late husband may have had Asperger's

Syndrome.

There may be multiple factors, but don't risk vaccinating the " everything at

once " way or

too early, and look carefully at your family history. It will tell you more than

a blood test.

Mady Hornig did a study with different strains of mice and some of them

responded with

autistic-like behaviors to injections of thimerosal at exactly the same

developmental

stages as we give, or used to give, mercury containing vaccines to infants.

Some strains,

in fact most, were OK with the shots. Again, your family history will tell you

more than a

blood test about your child's vulnerability.

Peace,

Kathy E.

[Guest guest]

Wow. Thank you all so much for the information. My son will be two

next week and is schedulded to receive his next vaccinations shortly

after. I will discuss the mercury issue with his doctor before he

receives any vaccinations. Is mercury poisoning something that I can

ask his pediatrician to test for or will I have to go to a hospital?

>

> Robin,

>

> Welcome! The lines of diagnoses seem to be so blurry. Yes, many

> apraxic kids have sensory issues and do not get an autism

diagnosis -

> but some do. None of the evaluations you've had have pointed to

ASD,

> and if an expert does say someday that your son is autistic you'll

> have to make up your own mind whether you want to agree with that

and

> what you want to do about it.

>

> With your family history of autism and sensory problems, I strongly

> urge you to avoid any vaccines that contain mercury (like the flu

> shot, but you can get a preservative-free version if you look

around)

> and to do your own research into the other vaccines to make up your

> own mind about them. Kids can still regress after age 2 into an

> autism diagnosis, and I have " met " online many parents who claim

that

> vaccines were the trigger for their kids. Regardless of whether

you

> believe them, there really is no reason to inject mercury into a

young

> child or anyone for that matter. Another thing you can do to help

> prevent regression (and keep your son healthy) is to give him

vitamins

> and minerals to boost the immune system (I'm thinking C, E, zinc,

> magnesium, and fish oils to name a few but I'm not a doctor or

> nutritionist). And of course, you can go further and look into

> biomedial treatments for apraxia and autism.

>

> If your feeling adventurous and have the cash to do it, you may

want

> to look into Dr. Amy Yasko's genetic testing and protocol at

> www.autismanswer.com (no need to be dx) - it could shed some light

on

> why you and your brother have the sensory issues too.

>

> Kerri

>

> > I have to say that he acted very differently from my son...no eye

> contact

> > until 16, frequent and intense meltdowns over sensory things

(like

> > spinning signs), no pretend play, severe social issues...but the

> family

> > history makes it more of a possibility. Even is he is not

autistic

> > now, could he suddenly regress socially?

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you so much for this information. You have given me so much to

think about. My mom actually has both lupas and arthritis. She is

also from Rotterdam, Holland. She grew up in the city, which is full

of industrial plants loaded with contaminants. I have always

wondered if this may have had something to do with my brother's

autism.

> >

> > ,

> >

> > Was the test for mercury a blood test?

> >

> You usually cannot just " do a blood test " for mercury. If there has

been recent exposure

> (within the past six weeks) then an RBC mercury might be high. But

usually mercury is

> sequestered into the fat and brain tissues. Sometimes hair tests

are done but be

> warned...if other metals are high and mercury is low or near zero

it may mean your child is

> a " non-excretor " of mercury and these children have some of the

worst ASD disorders.

> When they receive chelation treatment a lot of mercury eventually

comes out.

>

> Look for these things: are there a lot of autoimmune disease

problems in your family

> history? Lupus, arthritis, diabetes, ITP, scleroderma in any close

relatives? Have you had

> RhoGam injections in past pregnancies when it still had thimerosal

mercury in it? Do you

> have a lot of dental amalgams in your teeth? And the history of

autism in your brother is a

> warning sign. Your family may be one of those genetically

vulnerable ones. Take care!

>

> And never, never vaccinate if a child is sick or feverish or even

sniffly. Just say no!

> Spreading out the vaccines and giving extra vitamin C is an option

for some. We have

> genetic humoral immune deficiencies in our family and my DGS had

the live chickenpox

> vaccine on his first birthday. He had ear infections and severe

receptive and expressive

> speech delay, oral-sensory problems, etc. and lost eye contact and

joint attention right

> after that. Just after his fourth birthday, he had shingles. And

atypical pneumonia. His

> pediatrician gave him acyclovir, and after two years of speech

therapy, his articulation

> suddenly became age-appropriate.

>

> ProEFA helped him before. But I saw such an awful regression

between 9 months and 13

> months (coming in from out of state as a grandma) that I also blame

the chickenpox

> vaccine as well as a whole lot of other factors. He's older than

your child so he got a

> mercury-containing hep B vaccine at age one day. Our family is

riddled with autoimmune

> disease and mercury " allergies. " My late husband may have had

Asperger's Syndrome.

>

> There may be multiple factors, but don't risk vaccinating

the " everything at once " way or

> too early, and look carefully at your family history. It will tell

you more than a blood test.

> Mady Hornig did a study with different strains of mice and some of

them responded with

> autistic-like behaviors to injections of thimerosal at exactly the

same developmental

> stages as we give, or used to give, mercury containing vaccines to

infants. Some strains,

> in fact most, were OK with the shots. Again, your family history

will tell you more than a

> blood test about your child's vulnerability.

>

> Peace,

> Kathy E.

>

[Guest guest]

Do you know which shots your son is scheduled to get? Has he ever

had a bad reaction to any vaccines?

It would be a miracle if your son's pediatrician actually took

seriously your concerns about mercury poisoning. I have yet to

visit an MD who does. Testing is tricky, because blood tests only

test for recent exposure and urine and hair tests only pick up what

is being excreted (and the problem is that some kids can't get rid

of it). BUT, almost all vaccinations no longer contain the high

amounts of mercury they once did - thankfully! Flu shots are a big

offender still, as are the tetanus shots you'd get an older child

(not the combo vaccination your son probably is getting or already

got). I'd suggest doing a google search about the issue to look for

a list you can compare to what your doctor is going to give him. In

addition to vaccines, children can build up high levels of mercury

from the air/water/polluted food sources - usually not too big of an

issue, but if your son is not excreting it those levels can get

dangerous quickly.

MMR is a concern because it is a live virus, as is chickenpox (I

think?). So let us know what shots he's to receive, and maybe

someone more knowledgable can go through them with you.

Kerri

>

> Wow. Thank you all so much for the information. My son will be

two

> next week and is schedulded to receive his next vaccinations

shortly

> after. I will discuss the mercury issue with his doctor before he

> receives any vaccinations. Is mercury poisoning something that I

can

> ask his pediatrician to test for or will I have to go to a

hospital?

>

>

[Guest guest]

You are right - looks like you have a family history of inflammatory

and immune system problems (very typical for autism to run in these

families too). Try not to worry. Start researching, find a good

doctor, and I know you will be able to prevent your son from further

harm and hopefully reverse the damage that's already happened! I've

heard some absolutely amazing success stories with chelation. Check

out the group chelatingkids2.

Kerri

> > >

> > > ,

> > >

> > > Was the test for mercury a blood test?

> > >

> > You usually cannot just " do a blood test " for mercury. If there

has

> been recent exposure

> > (within the past six weeks) then an RBC mercury might be high.

But

> usually mercury is

> > sequestered into the fat and brain tissues. Sometimes hair

tests

> are done but be

> > warned...if other metals are high and mercury is low or near

zero

> it may mean your child is

> > a " non-excretor " of mercury and these children have some of the

> worst ASD disorders.

> > When they receive chelation treatment a lot of mercury

eventually

> comes out.

> >

> > Look for these things: are there a lot of autoimmune disease

> problems in your family

> > history? Lupus, arthritis, diabetes, ITP, scleroderma in any

close

> relatives? Have you had

> > RhoGam injections in past pregnancies when it still had

thimerosal

> mercury in it? Do you

> > have a lot of dental amalgams in your teeth? And the history of

> autism in your brother is a

> > warning sign. Your family may be one of those genetically

> vulnerable ones. Take care!

> >

> > And never, never vaccinate if a child is sick or feverish or

even

> sniffly. Just say no!

> > Spreading out the vaccines and giving extra vitamin C is an

option

> for some. We have

> > genetic humoral immune deficiencies in our family and my DGS had

> the live chickenpox

> > vaccine on his first birthday. He had ear infections and severe

> receptive and expressive

> > speech delay, oral-sensory problems, etc. and lost eye contact

and

> joint attention right

> > after that. Just after his fourth birthday, he had shingles.

And

> atypical pneumonia. His

> > pediatrician gave him acyclovir, and after two years of speech

> therapy, his articulation

> > suddenly became age-appropriate.

> >

> > ProEFA helped him before. But I saw such an awful regression

> between 9 months and 13

> > months (coming in from out of state as a grandma) that I also

blame

> the chickenpox

> > vaccine as well as a whole lot of other factors. He's older

than

> your child so he got a

> > mercury-containing hep B vaccine at age one day. Our family is

> riddled with autoimmune

> > disease and mercury " allergies. " My late husband may have had

> Asperger's Syndrome.

> >

> > There may be multiple factors, but don't risk vaccinating

> the " everything at once " way or

> > too early, and look carefully at your family history. It will

tell

> you more than a blood test.

> > Mady Hornig did a study with different strains of mice and some

of

> them responded with

> > autistic-like behaviors to injections of thimerosal at exactly

the

> same developmental

> > stages as we give, or used to give, mercury containing vaccines

to

> infants. Some strains,

> > in fact most, were OK with the shots. Again, your family

history

> will tell you more than a

> > blood test about your child's vulnerability.

> >

> > Peace,

> > Kathy E.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

>

> ,

>

> Was the test for mercury a blood test?

>

You usually cannot just " do a blood test " for mercury. If there has been recent

exposure

(within the past six weeks) then an RBC mercury might be high. But usually

mercury is

sequestered into the fat and brain tissues. Sometimes hair tests are done but

be

warned...if other metals are high and mercury is low or near zero it may mean

your child is

a " non-excretor " of mercury and these children have some of the worst ASD

disorders.

When they receive chelation treatment a lot of mercury eventually comes out.

Look for these things: are there a lot of autoimmune disease problems in your

family

history? Lupus, arthritis, diabetes, ITP, scleroderma in any close relatives?

Have you had

RhoGam injections in past pregnancies when it still had thimerosal mercury in

it? Do you

have a lot of dental amalgams in your teeth? And the history of autism in your

brother is a

warning sign. Your family may be one of those genetically vulnerable ones. Take

care!

And never, never vaccinate if a child is sick or feverish or even sniffly. Just

say no!

Spreading out the vaccines and giving extra vitamin C is an option for some. We

have

genetic humoral immune deficiencies in our family and my DGS had the live

chickenpox

vaccine on his first birthday. He had ear infections and severe receptive and

expressive

speech delay, oral-sensory problems, etc. and lost eye contact and joint

attention right

after that. Just after his fourth birthday, he had shingles. And atypical

pneumonia. His

pediatrician gave him acyclovir, and after two years of speech therapy, his

articulation

suddenly became age-appropriate.

ProEFA helped him before. But I saw such an awful regression between 9 months

and 13

months (coming in from out of state as a grandma) that I also blame the

chickenpox

vaccine as well as a whole lot of other factors. He's older than your child so

he got a

mercury-containing hep B vaccine at age one day. Our family is riddled with

autoimmune

disease and mercury " allergies. " My late husband may have had Asperger's

Syndrome.

There may be multiple factors, but don't risk vaccinating the " everything at

once " way or

too early, and look carefully at your family history. It will tell you more than

a blood test.

Mady Hornig did a study with different strains of mice and some of them

responded with

autistic-like behaviors to injections of thimerosal at exactly the same

developmental

stages as we give, or used to give, mercury containing vaccines to infants.

Some strains,

in fact most, were OK with the shots. Again, your family history will tell you

more than a

blood test about your child's vulnerability.

Peace,

Kathy E.

[Guest guest]

I think someone may have already answered this, but unless the exposure to the

mercury was extremely recent, a blood test won't tell you anything. A hair test

is the most non-invasive, easiest way of determining mercury poisoning.

Mercury causes something called derranged mineral transport. Basically it messes

up the body's ability to communicate with itself....holding on to too much zinc,

not enough calcium, too much copper, or any number of things. A hair test can be

read to determine the likelihood of derranged mineral transport. Other tests can

be used to support the hair test, including urine and stool provocation tests,

EKG's, and truly a host of options.

Be aware that the most poisoned people will have very LOW levels of mercury

being excreted in their hair and urine at first. Because they can't excrete it,

they are poisoned. The most common mistake is reading a hair test with low

mercury and thinking " oh, there's no mercury here...must be no problem " .

Genetic reasons can play a role in why a person cannot excrete properly. My

daughter carries the MTHFR genetic mutation that helps in the bodies abilty to

detoxify. Additionally, a child on antibiotics while exposed to mercury cannot

excrete it. Genetic suceptibility or not, antibiotics destroy the good flora of

the intestines. The good flora excretes the mercury. Finally, antibioics cause

yeast, which methylizes mercury and allows it to cross the blood brain barrier.

Never believe anyone who says ethyl mercury (the kind in shots) can't get into

the brain. Yes it can.

Finally, consider what your child's true mercury exposure is/was. It's not just

the shots, although that's the most damaging. Studies have shown autism rates to

be higher in places with high mercury pollution. Also, if you have mercury

(amalgam) fillings and/or have a high diet of tuna and fish while pregnant or

nursing, the exposure multiplies. And the Rhogam shots (the Rh negative ones)

also contain mercury to this day. Mercury is much more damaging to a fetus. 46%

of mothers of autistic children surveyed had rhogam shots.

If you are interested in purchasing a hair test, it's $93 from

www.directlabs.com You need the hair essential elements one. From there, you can

read the results with the help of a book by Dr. Hall Cutler called Hidden

Hair Toxicities, available online. There are 5 counting rules that a hair test

will follow if a person is poisoned. I can read the results very easily at this

point if you are interested. Results from the hair test can get to you as soon

as one week after you submit it.

-------------- Original message --------------

From: kcventi <kcventi@...>

,

Was the test for mercury a blood test?

julieobradovic@... wrote:

Hi,

My child also had multiple specialists calling her different things....her

official diagnosis was high functioning PDD-NOS, moderate verbal apraxia,

sensory processing disorder, severe speech delay, and hypotonia. She was very

loving, had okay eye contact, and did not have meltdowns. None-the-less, she had

issues...including excema and a very poor immune system.

Long story short, after coming to this great list first and then branching out

into the autism spectrum ones, we were able to diagnose her correctly. Beyond

any reasonable doubt, unequivocally, no-mistaking it....she had mercury

poisoning. Hair tests, urine tests, and stool tests all confirmed it. Chelating

has reversed her conditions almost 100%. She will enter kindergarten in two

weeks mainstreamed needing speech therapy once a week.

I realize not everyone's child is like my daughter. I'm not saying all children

with issues have to be mercury poisoned. She also had yeast issues and viral

issues (making antibodies to the measles virus like crazy). But at the end of

the day, mercury was her biggest problem. It's an avenue worth pursuing, even if

it doesn't turn out to be your child's. It can't hurt to rule it out.

If one was to line up all of the symptoms of mercury poisoning with all of the

symptoms of the autism spectrum, including apraxia, ADD/ADHD, and many other of

the disorders that plague our children, there are no differences. They aren't

kind of similar...they are identical. Anyone interested in more info may email

me off line. I'm happy to help.

[Guest guest]

" I heard a therapist once describe the differences between a child on

the spectrum vs not as ASD children were primarily involved/locked

within their own heads/minds whereas a non autistic child was primarily

involved in the world around him/her. Your child's social strengths are

a good indicator of not being on the spectrum. "

I like that phrasing - it makes it more clear. Disordered social

interactions are a cornerstone of ASD, but that explanation makes it

more understandable, in my humble opinion.

Warm regards,

******************

(Rochester, NY)

Mom to , 3.2 years, Verbal Apraxia

& , 1 year

________________________________

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of kcventi

Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 9:09 PM

Subject: Re: [ ] Apraxia...Dyspraxia...Autism....I am

so confused!

I heard a therapist once describe the differences between a child on the

spectrum vs not as ASD children were primarily involved/locked within

their own heads/minds whereas a non autistic child was primarily

involved in the world around him/her. Your child's social strengths are

a good indicator of not being on the spectrum. Many symptoms overlap

diagnoses (speech delays, sensory issues, learning disabilities,

auditory processing, motor planning and tone) from autism to ADD to CP

to many others.

It is good you are getting OT,PT, SLP, reports. I would still suggest

you find a good neuropsychologist to help you understand how your

child's brain works, learns so that you can translate that information

into a school education and service delivery plan (IEP). It takes time

to get all this information together but over time working on these

areas will make a difference for your child.

" Shane H. " <robin.harmon@... <mailto:robin.harmon%40fuse.net> >

wrote:

If anyone can shed some light on this for me, I would be so grateful.

I have been going through evaluations with my almost 24 month old son

for about 4 months now. We started with his developmental

pediatrician, then moved into the EI system's three, seperate

evaluators, and lastly have sought out evaluations from our Children's

hospital for ST, OT and soon PT.

The dev. pediatrician did not feel he was on the ASD spectrum, but had

a severe commuinication delay. The 1st SLP suspected severe verbal

with moderate oral apraxia. The 2nd SLP said age appropriate receptive

skills, severe expressive skills, with apraxic like symptoms. The OT

says he has a mild hypotonia (truncal) and sensory issues and wants him

to have a PT evaluation.

So where does all of this lead me? I read the book the late talker.

It explained that apraxic children often have a mild hypotonia and

sensory issues, which may just peg my son to a tee. He has all the

classic verbal issues...drooling, adding vowel sounds " up-ah " , lots of

groping. However, I am confused. I have been doing research on a lot

of different disorders, and cannot seem to figure out where the line is

between some of them.

If a child has verbal/oral apraxia, sensory issues, and a hypotonia,

what is the main difference between this and dyspraxia?

And then there is autism. So far, I hear that my son is not on the

spectrum...but the sensory issues make me wonder (loves to touch the

ends of his hair with his thumb, loves visual stuff like colors and is

even advanced with this, sensory seeking with feet and hands). By the

way - I actually have a lot of sensory issues and they still are a

problem for me as an adult.

It seems that a lot of the issues that apraxic children have can cross

over to the autistic diagnosis, except for the social part? Is this

correct?

My son has no social issues that can be recognized yet. Good eye

contact, loves other kids, pretend play, pointing, etc. His

evaluations always include that he is " extremely social " . But I still

wonder if he has some form of autism? I am so confused. The reason I

am still wondering about autism is because my brother is autistic. I

have to say that he acted very differently from my son...no eye contact

until 16, frequent and intense meltdowns over sensory things (like

spinning signs), no pretend play, severe social issues...but the family

history makes it more of a possibility. Even is he is not autistic

now, could he suddenly regress socially?

I do not know what to look for anymore. Every evaluation is filled

with so many questions...my head is spinning. Do I have to wait until

he is three to really know what his challenges are and how to help

him? Regardless of his label, I just want to get him the right kind of

help so that he can have the brightest future possible.

[Guest guest]

The only place you can get an actual accurate body burden of mercury

besides the hair testing is from France. This will measure the

porhyrin excretion that will indicate if you are dealing with

toxicities, guarenteed to show the existence of mercury toxicity in

the body.You do not need a physcian to order this for you.

http://www.labbio.net/pages/index_vh_eng.htm

The test is relatively cheap about $130.

TOXICOLOGICAL HIGHLIGHT

Porphyrinurias Induced by Mercury and Other Metals

Bruce A. Fowler

University of land, Toxicology Program, 1450 South Rolling Road,

Baltimore, land 21227

ABSTRACT

The article highlighted in this issue is " Quantitative Evaluation of

Urinary Porphyrins as a Measure of Kidney Mercury Content and Mercury

Body Burden during Prolonged Methylmercury Exposure in Rats " by

D. Pingree, P. Lynne Simmonds, T. Rummel, and

S. Woods.

Biomarkers for toxic agents such as methylmercury are ideally early,

chemical-specific biological responses to exposure of a target cell

population which can be measured in accessible biological matrices

such as blood or urine. Chemical-induced alterations in the heme

biosynthetic pathway are among the those biomarkers of chemical

exposure/toxic cell injury that have proven themselves both useful

and reliable over a number of decades. This pathway, which is

essential for life, produces heme, utilized for a host of

hemoproteins including hemoglobin, the cytochrome P450 family, and

mitochondrial cytochromes. There are a host of biological processes

of direct toxicological interest which are dependent upon the heme

biosynthetic pathway. The heme pathway is also highly sensitive to

inhibition by a number of inorganic agents such as lead, mercury, and

arsenicals as well as organic agents such as the chlorinated benzenes

and alcohol. There is also a high degree of correlation between

excretion of specific porphyrins in the urine and other

ultrastructural/biochemical alterations in organelles, such as the

mitochondrion, which contain a number of enzymes in the heme

biosynthetic pathway (Fowler et al., 1987). This indicates the

utility of porphyrinurias in detecting early stages of cell injury.

As noted below, metal-induced disturbances in this pathway have also

proven useful for examining the interactions between metals under

mixture exposure conditions (Mahaffey et al., 1981, Conner et al.,

1995). Over the years, measurement of lead-induced alterations in

this pathway (e.g., blood delta-aminolevulinic acid dehydratase

activity and measurement of erythrocyte zinc protoporphyrin) were

used in making timely public health screening decisions for both

workers and children exposed to lead-containing dust (Piomelli et

al., 1987). These measurements have permitted physicians to ascertain

that sufficient exposure to lead had occurred to produce a

disturbance in an essential biochemical pathway and that a biological

threshold had been crossed.

The question of variability in individual susceptibility to

alterations in the heme pathway by metals such as lead and mercury,

as a function of the biologically active fraction of these metals,

has remained a problem. The paper by Pingree et al. represents a

major contribution towards addressing this question for a common

organometal toxicant (methylmercury) which is of current public

health concern. It examines the relationship between biological

activity against the renal heme biosynthetic pathway and

intracellular biological availability of CH3Hg+ and Hg2+ as monitored

by sodium 2,3-dimercapto-1-propanesulfonic acid (DMPS) mobilization

from the kidney. The import of these studies in a rodent species is

not trivial for humans, since the heme pathway is highly conserved

across species, and previous studies (- et al., 1995)

have shown similar findings with regard to the observed porphyrinuria

pattern. Methylmercury-induced porphyrinuria of renal origin was

first described in rats (Woods and Fowler, 1977) at dose levels that

did not produce signs of neurological dysfunction in this species.

Subsequent studies in humans exposed to mercury vapor (-

et al., 1995) showed similar findings.

The study by Pingree and colleagues makes a substantial contribution

toward a better understanding of the mechanisms underlying this

unique porphyrinuria pattern. It also contributes to the field of

metal toxicology in several specific areas. First, it defines a

relationship between a biological effect (mercury-specific

porphyrinuria pattern) and a target tissue dose of this element as

measured by the relationship with the DMPS mobilizable fraction. The

high degree of statistical correlation between renal mercury burden

and porphyrin excretion in the urine indicates that the observed

mercury-specific porphyrin excretion pattern may be reliably used as

a noninvasive index of the total renal mercury burden. More

specifically, the porphyrinuria pattern clarifies this relationship

in terms of the biologically active fractions of CH3Hg+ and Hg2+ as

evidenced by the strong statistical relationship between DMPS

chelatable fractions and alterations in the observed porphyrinuria.

It is also extremely valuable to be aware of the dose-related nature

of the porphyrinuria pattern across a wide range of doses, both with

regard to the consistency of the effects and with regard to potential

applicability to a wide range of exposures, such as may be

encountered in human populations. These findings are also important

from the pharmacological perspective since they help to delineate the

fraction of these 2 mercurial species being chelated and hence

provide valuable data on the pharmacological efficacy of this

chelating agent. This is also of basic scientific interest since it

would suggest that DMPS is capable of chelating Hg2+ from the renal

metallothionein pool normally found in rat kidney to bind zinc and

copper. In addition, since the heme biosynthetic pathway is highly

conserved across species, the ability to extrapolate these findings

to man or other species of interest is obvious and is supported by

the findings of - et al. (1995). Finally, it should be

noted that a number of studies in the last 20 years have utilized

specific metal porphyrinuria patterns as biomarkers of exposure to

either a single metal (Woods and Fowler, 1977, 1978) or metal

mixtures (Mahaffey et al., 1981; Conner et al., 1995). It will be of

interest to determine if similar relationships exist between the

biologically active fractions of these elements in their respective

target tissues. It should be clear that the approach taken in the

paper by Pingree et al. could be applied to other metal nephrotoxins

which also produce relatively specific porphyrinuria patterns (e.g.,

for lead, using EDTA or DMSA as chelating test agents and for

arsenicals, using perhaps BAL as a chelating test agent). The point

here is that the approach taken in the paper by Pingree et al. could

have broader applicability to a number of toxic metals, either alone

or as mixture combinations.

In summary, the results of this paper provide further evidence of the

utility of chemical-induced alterations in the heme biosynthetic

pathway as a reliable class of biomarker for delineating both the

total tissue burden of a toxic substance such as methyl mercury and

the intracellular bioavailability of reactive chemical species of

this toxic agent. It should be noted that this approach could also be

applied to evaluating the efficacy of new therapeutic agents such as

chelators or perhaps agents which facilitate the excretion of toxic

metals from the body. It is clear that this highly useful class of

biomarker may have as yet undiscovered applications in delineating

both the total tissue burden of toxic metals such as mercury and the

biologically available fraction of reactive chemical species.

NOTES

For correspondence via fax: (410) 455-6314. E-mail: bfowler@....

REFERENCES

Conner, E. A., Yamauchi, H., and Fowler, B. A. (1995). Alterations in

the heme biosynthetic pathway from III-V semiconductor metal indium

arsenide (InAs). Chem. Biol. Interact. 96, 273–285.[iSI][Medline]

Fowler B. A., Oskarsson, A. and Woods, J. S. (1987). Metal- and

metalloid-induced porphyrinurias: Relationships to cell injury. Ann.

N.Y. Acad. Sci. 514, 172–182.[Medline]

-, D., Maiorino, R. M., Zuniga-, M. Z., Xu, Z.,

Hurlbut, K. M., Junco-Munoz, P., Aposhian, M.M., Dart, R.C.,

Gama, J. H., Echeverria, D., Woods, J. S., and Aposhian, H. V.

(1995). Sodium 2,3-dimercaptopropane-1-sulfonate challenge test for

mercury in humans: II. Urinary mercury, porphyrins and

neurobehavioral changes of dental workers in Monterrey, Mexico. J.

Pharmacol. Exp. Ther. 272, 264–274.[Abstract]

Mahaffey, K. R., Capar, S. G, Gladen, B. C., and Fowler, B. A.

(1981). Concurrent exposure to lead, cadmium and arsenic. Effects on

toxicity and tissue metal concentrations in the rat. J. Lab. Clin.

Med. 98, 463–481.[iSI][Medline]

Piomelli, S., Seaman, C., and Kapoor, S. (1987). Lead-induced

abnormalities in porphyrin metabolism: The relationship with iron

deficiency. Ann. N.Y. Acad. Sci. 514, 278–288.[Medline]

Woods, J. S., and Fowler, B. A. (1977). Renal porphyrinuria during

chronic methyl mercury exposure. J. Lab. Clin. Med. 90, 266–272.[iSI]

[Medline]

Woods, J. S., and Fowler, B. A. (1978). Altered regulation of hepatic

heme biosynthesis and urinary porphyrin excretion during prolonged

exposure to sodium arsenate. Toxicol. Appl. Pharmacol. 43, 361–371.

[iSI][Medline]

This article has been cited by other articles:

K. L. Nuttall

Interpreting Mercury in Blood and Urine of Individual Patients

Ann. Clin. Lab. Sci., July 1, 2004; 34(3): 235 - 250.

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> Hi,

>

> My child also had multiple specialists calling her different

things....her official diagnosis was high functioning PDD-NOS,

moderate verbal apraxia, sensory processing disorder, severe speech

delay, and hypotonia. She was very loving, had okay eye contact, and

did not have meltdowns. None-the-less, she had issues...including

excema and a very poor immune system.

>

> Long story short, after coming to this great list first and then

branching out into the autism spectrum ones, we were able to diagnose

her correctly. Beyond any reasonable doubt, unequivocally, no-

mistaking it....she had mercury poisoning. Hair tests, urine tests,

and stool tests all confirmed it. Chelating has reversed her

conditions almost 100%. She will enter kindergarten in two weeks

mainstreamed needing speech therapy once a week.

>

> I realize not everyone's child is like my daughter. I'm not saying

all children with issues have to be mercury poisoned. She also had

yeast issues and viral issues (making antibodies to the measles virus

like crazy). But at the end of the day, mercury was her biggest

problem. It's an avenue worth pursuing, even if it doesn't turn out

to be your child's. It can't hurt to rule it out.

>

> If one was to line up all of the symptoms of mercury poisoning with

all of the symptoms of the autism spectrum, including apraxia,

ADD/ADHD, and many other of the disorders that plague our children,

there are no differences. They aren't kind of similar...they are

identical. Anyone interested in more info may email me off line. I'm

happy to help.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you so much for this information. You have given me so much to

think about. My mom actually has both lupas and arthritis. She is

also from Rotterdam, Holland. She grew up in the city, which is full

of industrial plants loaded with contaminants. I have always

wondered if this may have had something to do with my brother's

autism.

> >

> > ,

> >

> > Was the test for mercury a blood test?

> >

> You usually cannot just " do a blood test " for mercury. If there has

been recent exposure

> (within the past six weeks) then an RBC mercury might be high. But

usually mercury is

> sequestered into the fat and brain tissues. Sometimes hair tests

are done but be

> warned...if other metals are high and mercury is low or near zero

it may mean your child is

> a " non-excretor " of mercury and these children have some of the

worst ASD disorders.

> When they receive chelation treatment a lot of mercury eventually

comes out.

>

> Look for these things: are there a lot of autoimmune disease

problems in your family

> history? Lupus, arthritis, diabetes, ITP, scleroderma in any close

relatives? Have you had

> RhoGam injections in past pregnancies when it still had thimerosal

mercury in it? Do you

> have a lot of dental amalgams in your teeth? And the history of

autism in your brother is a

> warning sign. Your family may be one of those genetically

vulnerable ones. Take care!

>

> And never, never vaccinate if a child is sick or feverish or even

sniffly. Just say no!

> Spreading out the vaccines and giving extra vitamin C is an option

for some. We have

> genetic humoral immune deficiencies in our family and my DGS had

the live chickenpox

> vaccine on his first birthday. He had ear infections and severe

receptive and expressive

> speech delay, oral-sensory problems, etc. and lost eye contact and

joint attention right

> after that. Just after his fourth birthday, he had shingles. And

atypical pneumonia. His

> pediatrician gave him acyclovir, and after two years of speech

therapy, his articulation

> suddenly became age-appropriate.

>

> ProEFA helped him before. But I saw such an awful regression

between 9 months and 13

> months (coming in from out of state as a grandma) that I also blame

the chickenpox

> vaccine as well as a whole lot of other factors. He's older than

your child so he got a

> mercury-containing hep B vaccine at age one day. Our family is

riddled with autoimmune

> disease and mercury " allergies. " My late husband may have had

Asperger's Syndrome.

>

> There may be multiple factors, but don't risk vaccinating

the " everything at once " way or

> too early, and look carefully at your family history. It will tell

you more than a blood test.

> Mady Hornig did a study with different strains of mice and some of

them responded with

> autistic-like behaviors to injections of thimerosal at exactly the

same developmental

> stages as we give, or used to give, mercury containing vaccines to

infants. Some strains,

> in fact most, were OK with the shots. Again, your family history

will tell you more than a

> blood test about your child's vulnerability.

>

> Peace,

> Kathy E.

>

[Guest guest]

Do you know which shots your son is scheduled to get? Has he ever

had a bad reaction to any vaccines?

It would be a miracle if your son's pediatrician actually took

seriously your concerns about mercury poisoning. I have yet to

visit an MD who does. Testing is tricky, because blood tests only

test for recent exposure and urine and hair tests only pick up what

is being excreted (and the problem is that some kids can't get rid

of it). BUT, almost all vaccinations no longer contain the high

amounts of mercury they once did - thankfully! Flu shots are a big

offender still, as are the tetanus shots you'd get an older child

(not the combo vaccination your son probably is getting or already

got). I'd suggest doing a google search about the issue to look for

a list you can compare to what your doctor is going to give him. In

addition to vaccines, children can build up high levels of mercury

from the air/water/polluted food sources - usually not too big of an

issue, but if your son is not excreting it those levels can get

dangerous quickly.

MMR is a concern because it is a live virus, as is chickenpox (I

think?). So let us know what shots he's to receive, and maybe

someone more knowledgable can go through them with you.

Kerri

>

> Wow. Thank you all so much for the information. My son will be

two

> next week and is schedulded to receive his next vaccinations

shortly

> after. I will discuss the mercury issue with his doctor before he

> receives any vaccinations. Is mercury poisoning something that I

can

> ask his pediatrician to test for or will I have to go to a

hospital?

>

>

[Guest guest]

You are right - looks like you have a family history of inflammatory

and immune system problems (very typical for autism to run in these

families too). Try not to worry. Start researching, find a good

doctor, and I know you will be able to prevent your son from further

harm and hopefully reverse the damage that's already happened! I've

heard some absolutely amazing success stories with chelation. Check

out the group chelatingkids2.

Kerri

> > >

> > > ,

> > >

> > > Was the test for mercury a blood test?

> > >

> > You usually cannot just " do a blood test " for mercury. If there

has

> been recent exposure

> > (within the past six weeks) then an RBC mercury might be high.

But

> usually mercury is

> > sequestered into the fat and brain tissues. Sometimes hair

tests

> are done but be

> > warned...if other metals are high and mercury is low or near

zero

> it may mean your child is

> > a " non-excretor " of mercury and these children have some of the

> worst ASD disorders.

> > When they receive chelation treatment a lot of mercury

eventually

> comes out.

> >

> > Look for these things: are there a lot of autoimmune disease

> problems in your family

> > history? Lupus, arthritis, diabetes, ITP, scleroderma in any

close

> relatives? Have you had

> > RhoGam injections in past pregnancies when it still had

thimerosal

> mercury in it? Do you

> > have a lot of dental amalgams in your teeth? And the history of

> autism in your brother is a

> > warning sign. Your family may be one of those genetically

> vulnerable ones. Take care!

> >

> > And never, never vaccinate if a child is sick or feverish or

even

> sniffly. Just say no!

> > Spreading out the vaccines and giving extra vitamin C is an

option

> for some. We have

> > genetic humoral immune deficiencies in our family and my DGS had

> the live chickenpox

> > vaccine on his first birthday. He had ear infections and severe

> receptive and expressive

> > speech delay, oral-sensory problems, etc. and lost eye contact

and

> joint attention right

> > after that. Just after his fourth birthday, he had shingles.

And

> atypical pneumonia. His

> > pediatrician gave him acyclovir, and after two years of speech

> therapy, his articulation

> > suddenly became age-appropriate.

> >

> > ProEFA helped him before. But I saw such an awful regression

> between 9 months and 13

> > months (coming in from out of state as a grandma) that I also

blame

> the chickenpox

> > vaccine as well as a whole lot of other factors. He's older

than

> your child so he got a

> > mercury-containing hep B vaccine at age one day. Our family is

> riddled with autoimmune

> > disease and mercury " allergies. " My late husband may have had

> Asperger's Syndrome.

> >

> > There may be multiple factors, but don't risk vaccinating

> the " everything at once " way or

> > too early, and look carefully at your family history. It will

tell

> you more than a blood test.

> > Mady Hornig did a study with different strains of mice and some

of

> them responded with

> > autistic-like behaviors to injections of thimerosal at exactly

the

> same developmental

> > stages as we give, or used to give, mercury containing vaccines

to

> infants. Some strains,

> > in fact most, were OK with the shots. Again, your family

history

> will tell you more than a

> > blood test about your child's vulnerability.

> >

> > Peace,

> > Kathy E.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I think someone may have already answered this, but unless the exposure to the

mercury was extremely recent, a blood test won't tell you anything. A hair test

is the most non-invasive, easiest way of determining mercury poisoning.

Mercury causes something called derranged mineral transport. Basically it messes

up the body's ability to communicate with itself....holding on to too much zinc,

not enough calcium, too much copper, or any number of things. A hair test can be

read to determine the likelihood of derranged mineral transport. Other tests can

be used to support the hair test, including urine and stool provocation tests,

EKG's, and truly a host of options.

Be aware that the most poisoned people will have very LOW levels of mercury

being excreted in their hair and urine at first. Because they can't excrete it,

they are poisoned. The most common mistake is reading a hair test with low

mercury and thinking " oh, there's no mercury here...must be no problem " .

Genetic reasons can play a role in why a person cannot excrete properly. My

daughter carries the MTHFR genetic mutation that helps in the bodies abilty to

detoxify. Additionally, a child on antibiotics while exposed to mercury cannot

excrete it. Genetic suceptibility or not, antibiotics destroy the good flora of

the intestines. The good flora excretes the mercury. Finally, antibioics cause

yeast, which methylizes mercury and allows it to cross the blood brain barrier.

Never believe anyone who says ethyl mercury (the kind in shots) can't get into

the brain. Yes it can.

Finally, consider what your child's true mercury exposure is/was. It's not just

the shots, although that's the most damaging. Studies have shown autism rates to

be higher in places with high mercury pollution. Also, if you have mercury

(amalgam) fillings and/or have a high diet of tuna and fish while pregnant or

nursing, the exposure multiplies. And the Rhogam shots (the Rh negative ones)

also contain mercury to this day. Mercury is much more damaging to a fetus. 46%

of mothers of autistic children surveyed had rhogam shots.

If you are interested in purchasing a hair test, it's $93 from

www.directlabs.com You need the hair essential elements one. From there, you can

read the results with the help of a book by Dr. Hall Cutler called Hidden

Hair Toxicities, available online. There are 5 counting rules that a hair test

will follow if a person is poisoned. I can read the results very easily at this

point if you are interested. Results from the hair test can get to you as soon

as one week after you submit it.

-------------- Original message --------------

From: kcventi <kcventi@...>

,

Was the test for mercury a blood test?

julieobradovic@... wrote:

Hi,

My child also had multiple specialists calling her different things....her

official diagnosis was high functioning PDD-NOS, moderate verbal apraxia,

sensory processing disorder, severe speech delay, and hypotonia. She was very

loving, had okay eye contact, and did not have meltdowns. None-the-less, she had

issues...including excema and a very poor immune system.

Long story short, after coming to this great list first and then branching out

into the autism spectrum ones, we were able to diagnose her correctly. Beyond

any reasonable doubt, unequivocally, no-mistaking it....she had mercury

poisoning. Hair tests, urine tests, and stool tests all confirmed it. Chelating

has reversed her conditions almost 100%. She will enter kindergarten in two

weeks mainstreamed needing speech therapy once a week.

I realize not everyone's child is like my daughter. I'm not saying all children

with issues have to be mercury poisoned. She also had yeast issues and viral

issues (making antibodies to the measles virus like crazy). But at the end of

the day, mercury was her biggest problem. It's an avenue worth pursuing, even if

it doesn't turn out to be your child's. It can't hurt to rule it out.

If one was to line up all of the symptoms of mercury poisoning with all of the

symptoms of the autism spectrum, including apraxia, ADD/ADHD, and many other of

the disorders that plague our children, there are no differences. They aren't

kind of similar...they are identical. Anyone interested in more info may email

me off line. I'm happy to help.

[Guest guest]

" I heard a therapist once describe the differences between a child on

the spectrum vs not as ASD children were primarily involved/locked

within their own heads/minds whereas a non autistic child was primarily

involved in the world around him/her. Your child's social strengths are

a good indicator of not being on the spectrum. "

I like that phrasing - it makes it more clear. Disordered social

interactions are a cornerstone of ASD, but that explanation makes it

more understandable, in my humble opinion.

Warm regards,

******************

(Rochester, NY)

Mom to , 3.2 years, Verbal Apraxia

& , 1 year

________________________________

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of kcventi

Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 9:09 PM

Subject: Re: [ ] Apraxia...Dyspraxia...Autism....I am

so confused!

I heard a therapist once describe the differences between a child on the

spectrum vs not as ASD children were primarily involved/locked within

their own heads/minds whereas a non autistic child was primarily

involved in the world around him/her. Your child's social strengths are

a good indicator of not being on the spectrum. Many symptoms overlap

diagnoses (speech delays, sensory issues, learning disabilities,

auditory processing, motor planning and tone) from autism to ADD to CP

to many others.

It is good you are getting OT,PT, SLP, reports. I would still suggest

you find a good neuropsychologist to help you understand how your

child's brain works, learns so that you can translate that information

into a school education and service delivery plan (IEP). It takes time

to get all this information together but over time working on these

areas will make a difference for your child.

" Shane H. " <robin.harmon@... <mailto:robin.harmon%40fuse.net> >

wrote:

If anyone can shed some light on this for me, I would be so grateful.

I have been going through evaluations with my almost 24 month old son

for about 4 months now. We started with his developmental

pediatrician, then moved into the EI system's three, seperate

evaluators, and lastly have sought out evaluations from our Children's

hospital for ST, OT and soon PT.

The dev. pediatrician did not feel he was on the ASD spectrum, but had

a severe commuinication delay. The 1st SLP suspected severe verbal

with moderate oral apraxia. The 2nd SLP said age appropriate receptive

skills, severe expressive skills, with apraxic like symptoms. The OT

says he has a mild hypotonia (truncal) and sensory issues and wants him

to have a PT evaluation.

So where does all of this lead me? I read the book the late talker.

It explained that apraxic children often have a mild hypotonia and

sensory issues, which may just peg my son to a tee. He has all the

classic verbal issues...drooling, adding vowel sounds " up-ah " , lots of

groping. However, I am confused. I have been doing research on a lot

of different disorders, and cannot seem to figure out where the line is

between some of them.

If a child has verbal/oral apraxia, sensory issues, and a hypotonia,

what is the main difference between this and dyspraxia?

And then there is autism. So far, I hear that my son is not on the

spectrum...but the sensory issues make me wonder (loves to touch the

ends of his hair with his thumb, loves visual stuff like colors and is

even advanced with this, sensory seeking with feet and hands). By the

way - I actually have a lot of sensory issues and they still are a

problem for me as an adult.

It seems that a lot of the issues that apraxic children have can cross

over to the autistic diagnosis, except for the social part? Is this

correct?

My son has no social issues that can be recognized yet. Good eye

contact, loves other kids, pretend play, pointing, etc. His

evaluations always include that he is " extremely social " . But I still

wonder if he has some form of autism? I am so confused. The reason I

am still wondering about autism is because my brother is autistic. I

have to say that he acted very differently from my son...no eye contact

until 16, frequent and intense meltdowns over sensory things (like

spinning signs), no pretend play, severe social issues...but the family

history makes it more of a possibility. Even is he is not autistic

now, could he suddenly regress socially?

I do not know what to look for anymore. Every evaluation is filled

with so many questions...my head is spinning. Do I have to wait until

he is three to really know what his challenges are and how to help

him? Regardless of his label, I just want to get him the right kind of

help so that he can have the brightest future possible.