Re: School Environment and Coping

[Guest guest]

Quix, it's wise for you to question...and follow your gut. The fact

that you are that concerned tells me there probably is a problem

there. I so trust parental instinct.

However on the other hand...I'm not sure from this email if the

other children were playing rough, or just being mean. Kids do push

each other in play at times. I have to also add that as much as I

support those that homeschool -my boys LOVE the social aspect of

school, and yes all of us with " late talkers " had to deal with some

type of teasing here or there in the early years -but with

strategies -like those links I posted and circle of friends -there

doesn't have to be constant teasing throughout the years. Cut it in

the bud.

Again -both my boys are never teased today -or nothing more than

anyone else if they are ever and just don't hear about it. I had to

walk with Dakota into his new class the first day or school this

week because he had so many books -and the his friends started

clapping when they saw Dakota was in their class too. For Tanner -

brand new school at the open house with a bunch of new kids he never

met before Tanner started playing tag and football....and he said to

me he's decided he likes the new school better (he left behind a

large group of friends from his old school too -but he's still

friends with them) Yes Tanner my once shy and withdrawn apraxic

child is now known as the child who is outgoing and friendly. As

good natured as they are -both Tanner and Dakota like to play rough

at times and wrestle with each other and with other children. If

they are laughing and nobody is hurt I figure it's play. If I don't

like the play I redirect them (which is what the teacher standing

there could have done! Again tells me this school sounds out of

control)

But what if these kids were teasing and being mean and even worse -

in a school with incompetent professionals who don't have a clue?

Have you checked out other public or private schools in your area to

see what else is available? May seem a bit extreme but if in fact

your child's school is that out of control bad - moving one town

over may not be insane. Not that you can't get your child into

another school system without moving -but at least it will guarantee

getting your child into another placement as soon as you move.

What state are you in? If this was a case of out of control

students with teachers who are in a fog -I used to know a reporter

from Fox in NYC who was always looking for stories like this to do

shame on you reports. Today local media can be feared more than

attorneys -and we all have local news teams. And speaking of

attorneys, not a bad idea for you to at least consult with a special

ed attorney. The first visit is probably free -at least you can

talk to someone over the phone -it will make you feel more empowered

if nothing else. The situations you reported in the two emails if

they both are as bad as you report - are unacceptable, and prove a

hostile environment. They can help you advocate for immediate out

of district placement.

Even when it's not extreme like in the situation you may be in -

you'll learn that you have to " play the game " to get him out of this

school and into appropriate out of district placement. It's always

best to have some type of outside advocate to help you -have you

confided in your child's SLP? Does your child have a neuroMD? The

more the merrier. Let them help you to advocate for your child.

Document everything...keep a paper trail. Also take the names of

each of these children that are pushing or name calling. I'm sure

their mommies and daddies would just love to know what they are

doing at school so 'they' can teach them to grow to be well adjusted

caring adults. The world certainly can use more of them!

=====

[Guest guest]

Hi Amy,

Thanks for the support. Just being here and reading what others have

to say (not just in response to me) is encouraging.

It is hard to know what to do. I really struggled with holding my son

back a year. I ended up taking the advice of his DD teacher, and I'm

thinking that was probably made a mistake. We held him back on the

basis of language and behavior, not learning. Everyone assured me

that, a year ago, K would have been too difficult for my son to cope

with. I'm not so sure now. I should have trusted that I understood my

son's needs and abilities better than his teachers did.

I do have to say, Friday was a far cry from the day before. When we

got to his school, the two kids already there both came to my son, and

wanted him to sit by them. And after school, a different one of his

classmates asked if my kiddo could come over to his house sometime. So

I'm hopeful that my son won't be completely ostracized this year. I'm

still greatly concerned about other kids laughing at and teasing him,

but I'll do what I can to minimize that, and help him deal with it if

it begins to bother him. I'm glad I actually voiced my concerns here,

because it serves as a reminder to me that they are real and

justified, and that I need to keep an eye on the situation, and take

some preventative action to make sure my son is in a healthy environment.

Again, just reading everything here has provided a huge emotional

support. I've been focused on replying to those that have replied to

me, but I'll start participating in some of the other threads as soon

as I get my footing here. Thank you for saying hello, and making me

feel welcome. I look forward to getting to know you (and everyone)

better. Thank you again for the support.

>

> Hi quix,

>

> I'm not sure if you've gotten a lot of response? Please don't

feel excluded. I think with the new discovery of Vit E we're all a

little focused on that.

>

> I don't have any good advice. That is my fear. To be in a

situation like this. That is why I chose to keep my son home another

year from school.. He will be 5 next month and would have started

school tomorrow. I'm not at all suggesting that for you. Just

letting you know it's one of the reasons I feared sending him..

>

> I feel like I'll face this one day too. It truly breaks my heart.

I don't understand how kids can be so mean. I would tell my older

daughter (typical child) when someone was mean to her. " Isn't it sad?

" They must have a rough home life " " I bet they hear their mom and dad

talk that way. " " Are you glad your not like that? " I kind of turned

it around with the attitude that the kids must hear unkind words at

home. I think it made her feel better about herself. Although she

was older than 5 and understood more.

>

> Sorry I'm not much help but I wanted to let you know I feel for you.

>

> Amy D.

>

[Guest guest]

Hello Leah,

You're right. The reality does hurt. We got a taste of it a couple of

years ago when a child at the park wouldn't play with my son because

he was " a baby who couldn't talk. " It hurts just as much now as it did

then. You never get inured to hurts done to your child.

I think we sometimes take for granted our ability to communicate as we

do. When that ability is taken away, or severely limited, it's

horribly frustrating for all involved. My son's first (partially

intelligible) word didn't come until 3 years, 7 months. It's been a

slow progression, and a heartbreaking experience. He didn't even

babble as a baby, but he loves trying to talk with everyone now. He's

not shy about verbalizing. It's just that no one (outside of myself

and his grandmother) can understand him very well. People just sort of

ignore him, and it's so sad to watch him be upset for thinking no one

likes him. Poor kiddo!

I remember all too well how difficult it is to communicate when your

little one has such a limited vocabulary. The gestures do help. My son

used sign language for common words (his most-used was the sign for

" Stop " ) and that helped a great deal. It gave him a way to get his

message across and that helped to ease some of his frustration. I know

a lot of experts say not to use the gestures and signs as a crutch,

but when it's the only way your child can communicate, I think that's

better than nothing.

Anyway, thank you for the links to the letters. I read them, and they

were helpful. I think I may write my own letter to be given to those

at school who will have contact with my son. Thank you for the idea,

and for your response. I hope things go well for you and this year.

~quix

>

> Hello Quix,

>

> This is 's Mom Leah. I am sorry to hear that this has

happened to you and no matter what you do, where you go, or how well

you try to protect your kiddo, this is a reality that HURTS!!! my

just started 3-year old pre-k at our local elementary school.

the good thing is that this school only holds pre-k & kindergarten.

all of our elementary schools here are broke down to 2 years, pre-k &

k, 1 & 2, 3 & 4, 5 & 6, 7 & 8, then high school. i really like it b/c

they only go to school with ones that are at the same age. but as i

walked jacob to his class yesterday, a little girl said hey to him and

when jacob only waved at her she stopped and asked why he wouldn't

speak to her. i don't think she was trying to be ugly but i do think

it kindof hurt her feelings so i told her that he did speak to her in

the best way that he knows how. she asked what was wrong with him and

i told her that he does not speak as well she & i do. she was ok with

that. she went on her way and

> i noticed jacob kindof seemed to be sad. it broke my heart. but to

answer your question on what to do or who to talk to, i want to send

you something that i got off the apraxia kids website. i have given it

to his therapist, his teachers, the principal, the guidance counselor,

and some of the teacher aides, for all of them to be more familiar

with my little jacob. it gives them a small insight on his problem and

helps them to know how to handle him a little better because he does

have so much frustration with this apraxia....by the way my jacob only

has a vocab of about 5-10 real words and about 15 word approximations

or sounds. he mostly uses gestures. well i will try to email this

letter to you so that maybe it can help you. also, in the mornings

when you drop off your little one, if you notice that there is one

paticular teacher on duty all the time you may want to consider

stopping and talking to her/him one morning, even if it is not his

teacher, and just share some

> of what you have gone through, and are going through with them, of

course i would not do it in front of the little one but just share

with them that way they can help watch out for " bullies " that may be

being ugly to him and maybe they can intervine to stop the verbal

abuse. yes kids will be kids and no they mostly at this age do not

realize that they are being ugly or mean to someone, but there is

ALWAYS something you can do about it. i make my presence known at

jacob's school and i know most of the teachers there, not personally

but i have talked with them, and they have been wonderful with jacob

in protecting him from those harsh moments. i hope i have been of some

help even if it was only to reassure you that you are not alone in

this terrible fright. good luck to you both and i will send you the

page i told you about.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Sherry,

That is a difficult situation to be in. I think mainstream would be

very hard for a child with no actual words. Does he seem to understand

what's said to him for the most part?

My son has become better at mimicking just in the last year. Before,

he just couldn't figure out how to get the sounds to come out. We're

making progress, but it's slow going, and a lot of work. One of my

family members thought I was being silly when I called one day and

told her my son had figured out how to blow. But I was genuinely

ecstatic. It was a big step for him. But it does take a lot of work.

Is your son in any sort of speech therapy? If not, there are still a

lot of exercises you can do with your son to make him more familiar

with how his mouth works, and such. I'm sure you're already aware (as

you're a member of this group), but I thought I'd throw that out

there, just in case.

It's good that you're a teacher. I'm sure that will help should you

decide to go the homeschool route. It's so hard when you want to do

what's best for your kiddo, but you're hindered by things such as

financial considerations. That's the worst feeling in the world, to

know there's something that might help your child, but also know that

you don't know how you'll ever manage it simply because of money. I

find myself in that situation more often than I'd like to admit.

Good luck with everything. I know it's a hard road. I wish you guys

well. Thanks for responding. I appreciate the support.

~quix

>

> I'm in the same boat with you! My little guy will be 5 in a couple

of weeks. THankfully! He missed the kindergarten cut off date. He is

in a developmental semi-private preschool. I have NO idea what to do

next year. There just aren't a lot of options. There is a speech

school that has evaluated him, but he isn't doing a good job mimicking

sounds even. I suspect apraxia, but since he has no actual words......

> HE has a place at the school IF he starts to mimick sounds. Until

then, well, I just don't know what to do. Our local public schools

does NOT have a good track record with special needs kiddos. I am a

qualified teacher so I am considering homeschooling. Just not quite

sure how to afford it, but I may have to figure that out as well.

>

> Good luck on your decision.

>

> Sherry

>

[Guest guest]

Hey Debbie,

For me, it's less about affording the curriculum than it is about

finding a time to do the schooling. I work during the day, and any

homeschooling I would do would necessarily have to be in the early

evening through night. I don't think that would be a good arrangement

for my boy. Not to mention the fact that I'd then have to find and pay

for daycare for my son while I'm at work. It just doesn't seem like a

feasible situation at present.

As for the socialization, it's more that my son loves to be around

other people, other children. Were I to homeschool, I think he'd be

relatively isolated, or at least more so than he is now. Again, not

the best thing for him (unless the socialization proves more

detrimental than helpful).

But I'll wait and see how the next few weeks go for him at school. If

I notice a decline, I'll figure something out. Part of me wishes to

homeschool (as all the individual attention virtually guarantees the

kiddo will be as sharp as a tack), but I don't want to take away an

opportunity for my son to make friends. That's an important part of

his development at this stage. I just hope it works out for him. But

my mind is certainly open to the homeschool option should it not.

Thanks again for the advice.

~quix

>

> Sherry and Quix,

> Homeschooling does not need to be expensive (I spend less than

$300 per year for curriculum). Single parents do homeschool and as

for the socialization issue, study after study shows homeschooled

children are more sociable than their non-homeschooled peers. The

internet has tons of info--I encourage you to check it out. --Debbie

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I don't think the children that pushed my son were being intentionally

malicious. My concern was that they'd realize they could be physically

rough with him and he'd just laugh it off, and that that might lead to

increasing aggression. I was especially concerned as this happened

outside, on the concrete, as the children were awaiting their

after-school rides. Not the best place to be playing, especially like

that. That the substitute teacher didn't notice… I don't know. I've

nothing against her and she seems nice enough, but I'll be glad when a

more experienced teacher is in charge of my son.

As for moving, or a private school, financially, we just aren't in a

position to do that. I don't think it would make a lot of difference

anyway, and I'm sure that kind of measure isn't necessary. I didn't

mean to make it sound like the institution was out of control. I think

it's just a bad situation with a substitute teacher who doesn't have

any experience with special needs kids. Not an ideal situation, but

not one I can do a lot about, aside from taking my son out of school,

which I hesitate to do. At least this arrangement is temporary.

My son's currently on the waiting list for an SLP. The place he was

receiving therapy before suddenly decided he wasn't apraxic at all

(though they were the ones that diagnosed him three years

earlier),that this " behavior " is just the attention-seeking type, and

that he's just been deliberately not using a " big-boy voice. " 24/7.

For five years. Six, if you count not babbling at all when he was a

baby. When they refused to listen to my objections, I cut ties with

that office. Anyway, bottom line, we're in between SLP's, and my son

doesn't have a neuroMD. I kind of feel like we're on an island at the

moment.

I think that's part of the reason I was so upset. I felt like I didn't

have anyone to turn to. The speech therapist at the school hasn't

called me back yet, though I left her a message on Tuesday (even

before I had cause for such concern), and talking to the sub. teacher

won't do much good, as she's somewhat like a deer in headlights right

now anyway. What a mess.

But I was encouraged on Friday. As I wrote in another post, the

interactions I saw my son having were much, much better than those on

Thursday. But I'll still go on the offensive and try to make sure the

hurtful behavior doesn't happen again.

I do appreciate all the advice you and others have given the past

couple of days. It really has helped, both in terms of guidance, and

support. I hope I can contribute and help others as much as you guys

have helped me. Thank you.

~quix

>

> Quix, it's wise for you to question...and follow your gut. The fact

> that you are that concerned tells me there probably is a problem

> there. I so trust parental instinct.

>

> However on the other hand...I'm not sure from this email if the

> other children were playing rough, or just being mean. Kids do push

> each other in play at times. I have to also add that as much as I

> support those that homeschool -my boys LOVE the social aspect of

> school, and yes all of us with " late talkers " had to deal with some

> type of teasing here or there in the early years -but with

> strategies -like those links I posted and circle of friends -there

> doesn't have to be constant teasing throughout the years. Cut it in

> the bud.

>

> Again -both my boys are never teased today -or nothing more than

> anyone else if they are ever and just don't hear about it. I had to

> walk with Dakota into his new class the first day or school this

> week because he had so many books -and the his friends started

> clapping when they saw Dakota was in their class too. For Tanner -

> brand new school at the open house with a bunch of new kids he never

> met before Tanner started playing tag and football....and he said to

> me he's decided he likes the new school better (he left behind a

> large group of friends from his old school too -but he's still

> friends with them) Yes Tanner my once shy and withdrawn apraxic

> child is now known as the child who is outgoing and friendly. As

> good natured as they are -both Tanner and Dakota like to play rough

> at times and wrestle with each other and with other children. If

> they are laughing and nobody is hurt I figure it's play. If I don't

> like the play I redirect them (which is what the teacher standing

> there could have done! Again tells me this school sounds out of

> control)

>

> But what if these kids were teasing and being mean and even worse -

> in a school with incompetent professionals who don't have a clue?

>

> Have you checked out other public or private schools in your area to

> see what else is available? May seem a bit extreme but if in fact

> your child's school is that out of control bad - moving one town

> over may not be insane. Not that you can't get your child into

> another school system without moving -but at least it will guarantee

> getting your child into another placement as soon as you move.

>

> What state are you in? If this was a case of out of control

> students with teachers who are in a fog -I used to know a reporter

> from Fox in NYC who was always looking for stories like this to do

> shame on you reports. Today local media can be feared more than

> attorneys -and we all have local news teams. And speaking of

> attorneys, not a bad idea for you to at least consult with a special

> ed attorney. The first visit is probably free -at least you can

> talk to someone over the phone -it will make you feel more empowered

> if nothing else. The situations you reported in the two emails if

> they both are as bad as you report - are unacceptable, and prove a

> hostile environment. They can help you advocate for immediate out

> of district placement.

>

> Even when it's not extreme like in the situation you may be in -

> you'll learn that you have to " play the game " to get him out of this

> school and into appropriate out of district placement. It's always

> best to have some type of outside advocate to help you -have you

> confided in your child's SLP? Does your child have a neuroMD? The

> more the merrier. Let them help you to advocate for your child.

>

> Document everything...keep a paper trail. Also take the names of

> each of these children that are pushing or name calling. I'm sure

> their mommies and daddies would just love to know what they are

> doing at school so 'they' can teach them to grow to be well adjusted

> caring adults. The world certainly can use more of them!

>

> =====

>

[Guest guest]

OUr biggest problem is that DH and I are both public school teachers so money

will be VERY tight. I am really thinking and praying about it though! Thanks

for the info.

Sherry

Debbie Wonser <debbiewonser@...> wrote:

Sherry and Quix,

Homeschooling does not need to be expensive (I spend less than $300 per year for

curriculum). Single parents do homeschool and as for the socialization issue,

study after study shows homeschooled children are more sociable than their

non-homeschooled peers. The internet has tons of info--I encourage you to check

it out.--Debbie

Sherry <sherrymilner@...> wrote:

I'm in the same boat with you! My little guy will be 5 in a couple of weeks.

THankfully! He missed the kindergarten cut off date. He is in a developmental

semi-private preschool. I have NO idea what to do next year. There just aren't a

lot of options. There is a speech school that has evaluated him, but he isn't

doing a good job mimicking sounds even. I suspect apraxia, but since he has no

actual words......

HE has a place at the school IF he starts to mimick sounds. Until then, well, I

just don't know what to do. Our local public schools does NOT have a good track

record with special needs kiddos. I am a qualified teacher so I am considering

homeschooling. Just not quite sure how to afford it, but I may have to figure

that out as well.

Good luck on your decision.

Sherry

quixotic_paradise <quixotic_paradise@...> wrote:

Hi Debbie,

I've considered home schooling as well. The only thing really holding

me back is the socialization issue. My son loves to be around other

kids (when they're accepting of and friendly toward him), and I don't

want to deny him the opportunity that mainstream schooling affords in

that regard. Also, I'm a single mom, so arranging a home schedule

would be difficult.

However, I certainly don't want my kiddo to go through the sort of

decline that your child did. I'll keep a close eye on him, and keep

your experience in mind. Better to err on the side of caution rather

than inflict unnecessary trauma on my child. He's got enough to deal

with as it is, so I'll do whatever is necessary to help get him

through all this. Thanks for the insight. I'll look for warning signs,

and will remember what you've said.

I'm glad your son is prospering now. I hope my kiddo has the same

level of success!

~quix

>

> Hi--

> My apraxic (verbal) son was in public school through kindergarten

and the first half of first grade. I saw him gradually shut down. He

reached a point where he was almost catatonic. I tried and tried

working with the school. My son just wasn't learning. I was

desperate. I was too intimidated to homeschool--a pyschologist told

me my son would have severe learning disabilities and I just didn't

think I could handle teaching him. The last straw was when I got my

son's school picture. A big tear was on his cheek and his eyes--well

his eyes told a story of their own. Anguish. Anxiety. I started

homeschooling my son Dec 16, 1998. It has been so hard but so, so

rewarding. My son is now testing way above grade level on

standardized tests, he's an accomplished athlete and now at only 15,

an Eagle Scout. I hope this is encouraging to you. I realize all

children are not the same but these sons of ours are precious gifts

who deserve to grow up in the environments our

> hearts tell us is best.--Debbie

>

Sherry Milner

Don't forget to checkout Will's progress!!!

http://www.caringbridge.org/visit/willmilner

29:11:

For I know the plans I have for you, " declares the LORD, " plans to prosper you

and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.

[Guest guest]

Quix, it's wise for you to question...and follow your gut. The fact

that you are that concerned tells me there probably is a problem

there. I so trust parental instinct.

However on the other hand...I'm not sure from this email if the

other children were playing rough, or just being mean. Kids do push

each other in play at times. I have to also add that as much as I

support those that homeschool -my boys LOVE the social aspect of

school, and yes all of us with " late talkers " had to deal with some

type of teasing here or there in the early years -but with

strategies -like those links I posted and circle of friends -there

doesn't have to be constant teasing throughout the years. Cut it in

the bud.

Again -both my boys are never teased today -or nothing more than

anyone else if they are ever and just don't hear about it. I had to

walk with Dakota into his new class the first day or school this

week because he had so many books -and the his friends started

clapping when they saw Dakota was in their class too. For Tanner -

brand new school at the open house with a bunch of new kids he never

met before Tanner started playing tag and football....and he said to

me he's decided he likes the new school better (he left behind a

large group of friends from his old school too -but he's still

friends with them) Yes Tanner my once shy and withdrawn apraxic

child is now known as the child who is outgoing and friendly. As

good natured as they are -both Tanner and Dakota like to play rough

at times and wrestle with each other and with other children. If

they are laughing and nobody is hurt I figure it's play. If I don't

like the play I redirect them (which is what the teacher standing

there could have done! Again tells me this school sounds out of

control)

But what if these kids were teasing and being mean and even worse -

in a school with incompetent professionals who don't have a clue?

Have you checked out other public or private schools in your area to

see what else is available? May seem a bit extreme but if in fact

your child's school is that out of control bad - moving one town

over may not be insane. Not that you can't get your child into

another school system without moving -but at least it will guarantee

getting your child into another placement as soon as you move.

What state are you in? If this was a case of out of control

students with teachers who are in a fog -I used to know a reporter

from Fox in NYC who was always looking for stories like this to do

shame on you reports. Today local media can be feared more than

attorneys -and we all have local news teams. And speaking of

attorneys, not a bad idea for you to at least consult with a special

ed attorney. The first visit is probably free -at least you can

talk to someone over the phone -it will make you feel more empowered

if nothing else. The situations you reported in the two emails if

they both are as bad as you report - are unacceptable, and prove a

hostile environment. They can help you advocate for immediate out

of district placement.

Even when it's not extreme like in the situation you may be in -

you'll learn that you have to " play the game " to get him out of this

school and into appropriate out of district placement. It's always

best to have some type of outside advocate to help you -have you

confided in your child's SLP? Does your child have a neuroMD? The

more the merrier. Let them help you to advocate for your child.

Document everything...keep a paper trail. Also take the names of

each of these children that are pushing or name calling. I'm sure

their mommies and daddies would just love to know what they are

doing at school so 'they' can teach them to grow to be well adjusted

caring adults. The world certainly can use more of them!

=====

[Guest guest]

Quix I'm happy to hear that it did look like play to you as well! I

wouldn't believe that your child's laughter with their play will

encourage them to be even rougher with them...it's just possible

that once you do the circle of friends that he will have the most

incredible " body guards " that will stand up for him and protect him.

(and...be his friends!)

Doesn't sound like you need the out of district placement option

yet...but just to clarify -if it's done through the IEP and agreed

by all -out of district placement at another public or private

school is at no cost to you. My son Tanner was schooled in

preschool at the Summit Speech School for the hearing impaired and

deaf...and he is not hearing impaired or deaf -but the program was

proven to be appropriate for apraxia -and his preschool at the time

was inappropriate.

On another message I read how you were concerned that you held your

son back prior to starting kindergarten at the advice of his DD

teacher. Good for her or him! Educational smeducational! If a

child is a genius and needs to be advanced they will (I have a 159

IQ for example and missed most of kindergarten because I was in the

hospital due to celiac and other health issues at the time - but

passed the tests to be sent up to 1st)

On the other hand...a child's developmental skills are a critical

part of kindergarten readiness. As we are all focused on social

issues in regards to your child -that is a focus as well in school.

Would he have been ready last year? Below is a huge archive -with a

study funded by the US DOE that proved that it's best to hold a

child back prior to starting kindergarten if there are any delays in

any area.

Being advanced up -very good. Being held back -very very bad!

Huge archive on when do you start kindergarten

From: " kiddietalk " <kiddietalk@...>

Date: Mon Aug 15, 2005 2:36 pm

Subject: Re: question about kindergarten kiddietalk

Dear Archana,

Below are some archives that will help answer your question. In a

nutshell your child is entitled to continue preschool until 6 if the

IEP team deems that to be appropriate. Appropriate as you can

imagine is far too tangible a word in something as important as

decisions for what is or is not " most appropriate " for your child's

education. They may say throwing an essentially nonverbal 5 year

old child who still needs tons of therapies into kindergarten as

" most appropriate "

Fortunately, you and your husband are part of that IEP team to make

that decision and you can share outside information to support your

stand...such as private evals and opinions,

and all of the following which has helped others. I'd

also suggest showing up with a copy of The Late Talker. All the

stories from The Late Talker are from this group and printed with

permission from the families. Oh, and let them know we are working

on the next book and that we may be interviewing you!

If your public school can no longer provide appropriate preschool

placement until your child is 6, they will need to provide out of

district preschool placement. You would be amazed what they find

they can do when they are confronted with that option.

Share the study posted below about the reasons to delay kindergarten

vs. retaining. If you need help you can call me at 973 390 7541.

(Jersey line to still reach me at even though we are now in

Florida!) Hope the following helps!

From: " kiddietalk " <kiddietalk@...>

Date: Sun Dec 14, 2003 10:56 am

Subject: Re: Waiting on Kindergarten/long (even for me!) answer

Hi !

Tanner was in out of district placement at the Summit Speech School

for the hearing impaired/deaf which was a preschool placement that

went up to six years old http://www.oraldeafed.org/schools/summit/

I'm not sure what happens with in district placement from State to

State -or country to country. I can however share my experience

with this:

Tanner at five was still not able to hold a pencil correctly nor was

he good at imitating circles etc. He would work hard -he's always

been a child that wants to do what others tell him to do. Due to

motor planning and weakness problems however -he still needed OT.

His speech was much improved by five -but he spoke like a baby. Put

it this way -Becca -the child who just turned three speaks far more

and far more articulate than Tanner was at five. Tanner was

developmentally slow on speech and language development. Another

theory of mine is that our children do NOT have the diagnosis of

speech language impairment -but they appear to have that when they

developmentally go through that stage. (this is the stage where

they are doing sentences -but mix up syntax -etc.) Just like the

stuttering stage can last longer and happen much later -with apraxic

children not enough studies have gone into what is " normal " for

them. So again -don't want them to be inappropriately labeled. At

five Tanner was still in intensive therapy -and needed that extra

year of intensive therapy for speech and occupational therapy. He

was only in a half a day program -and by the time he came home on

the 15 minute bus ride -he would fall asleep on the bus. I'd have

to wake him up and then he would come in and nap more. Tanner

needed much more sleep than other five year olds.

When it was time for IEP -I was told not to have him evaluated -

there was a chance that he was doing well enough that he wouldn't

qualify for continued out of district placement until six. What

happened then was that both my town school and Summit Speech School

professionals both agreed that it was most appropriate to keep

Tanner in preschool until six. Here is my favorite part of the

story from the archives : " Funny story is that

Tanner's case manager at Tanner's five year old IEP meeting said " In

our town we like to start five year olds in Kindergarten " I

actually laughed when she said that (couldn't help it) and said " Our

town? I live in this town and was a Kindergarten classroom mom for

Dakota who I started at five year olds and he and Molly ___ were

just about the only two five year olds in the entire Kindergarten

class -so suggesting to start special needs speech impaired apraxic

children at five when all the quote unquote normal kids don't start

till six is not the best idea to say the least! "

Needless to say -our town paid for Tanner to continue in his " out of

district " placement at the Summit Speech School in New Providence NJ

till six. We withheld testing which I was advised we could do -

since he would have " tested out of the program " So in fact your

town could pay for in district or out of district preschool

placement from five to six years old if you and the child study team

agree that will be best to wait till six. Keep in mind that apraxic

children take a bit longer at times to do what comes naturally to

other children -and in time they can perhaps blend in with others

with no damage to self esteem from teasing etc. I heard that in NJ

a child doesn't legally have to begin Kindergarten till seven -not

sure but anyone could check that out for their state/area. So don't

rule out paid preschool after five years old as an option...if that

is what is appropriate for your child. "

Bottom line is both the school system and you are looking for the

best way to get your child succeeding in the mainstream with as few

services as possible and as quickly as possible.

Here are some archives to answer more. Since there are a number -

and this is just the most recent -it's long and some may be

repeating but I don't have time to clean up. So if this isn't a

concern -just delete! )

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Check with other parents in your town if this is your first child to

find out what age most other parents in your town start their

children in Kindergarten. I started my son Dakota at five years old

for Kindergarten in the Warren/Berkeley Heights/Basking Ridge area

of NJ where we used to live -and he was one of the two five year

olds in the class. Most parents in our upper middle class town

didn't start their children until six for competitive sports and

academics reasons -so starting my " suspected ADHD late talker " five

year old Dakota in Kindergarten we saw as a mistake -and one we

could never fix.

Dakota was too bright to be left back once he started -socially he

was not as mature as his classmates however -but he became friends

with his class mates regardless -so repeating is something Dakota

didn't want.

What I didn't at all like was that each day the teachers had to keep

yelling over and over " Dakota... " fill in the blank - " do this or

don't do that or sit down or be quiet or pay attention " etc.

So not starting Tanner in Kindergarten at five was not even a

thought when we lived in NJ. Why put a double whammy on the kid and

start him at five when most of his classmates will be six -and in

some cases -already reading and writing!! Funny story is that

Tanner's case manager at Tanner's five year old IEP meeting said " In

our town we like to start five year olds in Kindergarten " I

actually laughed when she said that (couldn't help it) and said " Our

town? I live in this town and was a Kindergarten classroom mom for

Dakota who I started at five year olds and he and Molly ___ were

just about the only two five year olds in the entire Kindergarten

class -so suggesting to start special needs speech impaired apraxic

children at five when all the quote unquote normal kids don't start

till six is not the best idea to say the least! "

Needless to say -our town paid for Tanner to continue in his " out of

district " placement at the Summit Speech School in New Providence NJ

till six. We withheld testing which I was advised we could do -

since he would have " tested out of the program " So in fact your

town could pay for in district or out of district preschool

placement from five to six years old if you and the child study team

agree that will be best to wait till six. Keep in mind that apraxic

children take a bit longer at times to do what comes naturally to

other children -and in time they can perhaps blend in with others

with no damage to self esteem from teasing etc. I heard that in NJ

a child doesn't legally have to begin Kindergarten till seven -not

sure but anyone could check that out for their state/area. So don't

rule out paid preschool after five years old as an option...if that

is what is appropriate for your child.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Jola,

As always it's yours and your husband's decision on what age to

start a speech impaired child in kindergarten.

Keep in mind the following however.

Your child's school said some pretty horrible things. Sorry isn't

enough -what is the track record of this school district with verbal

impaired children?

What age does the average parent in your town start children in

kindergarten? Where I used to live in Warren NJ -the average age

was 6. (Warren is a more affluent/higher educated area -parents do

this for academic and athletic reasons for all children)

Kindergarten is not the grade to determine readiness -it's first

grade and beyond. You want your child (I'm guessing) to be

mainstreamed like the other kids K-12 -so you want to give him the

best chance to be in the mainstream.

Does your son still need speech therapy? How much time and energy

will be spent on that vs. learning to read and write and do math

etc. at 5 years old? Those of us however that start our children at

6 in kindergarten -we have that one extra year of therapy and

developmental time-in preschool without pressure..

Does your son need any occupational therapy? Can he sit upright and

how good is he at holding a pencil? By first grade he will be

expected to sit upright in a chair and hold a pencil and write for

longer periods of time then those children with hypotonia can do at

just 6 years old without prior therapy. Those of us however that

start our children at 6 in kindergarten -we have that one extra year

of therapy and developmental time at 5 -in preschool without

pressure.

Does kindergarten have as your husband believes " the challenge of

the other regular kids who he can emulate " ?

Does your child have just a simple delay in speech? Even then -he

could pick up speech from you and your husband -and from a regular

preschool placement.

This isn't a choice of kindergarten or not. The choice is 5 vs. 6

years old to

start? Frustration vs. encouragement? Which would happen?

If a child has a simple delay in speech -being thrown into a

situation with other children is a great way to get them talking.

Doesn't work like that for apraxia -some become more frustrated.

They don't just start talking. As far as more intensive therapy in

kindergarten? Why isn't your child getting that now if he's

entitled to it? In fact -my son Tanner had the most intensive years

of speech therapy ever during his preschool years. To me that's the

best time to do it -not in school years. By the time Tanner started

kindergarten at 6 he only needed 3 days a week of speech therapy -

not 5, and only 2 days a week of occupational therapy -not 3.

http://www.cherab.org/information/familiesrelate/letter.html

If your child isn't receiving intensive therapy now (and it's in his

IEP he will get that in kindergarten!!) -then that needs to be

addressed with the IEP team when you contact them to let them know

you want to reopen the IEP to hold off kindergarten till 6 -enroll

him in an appropriate multisensory preschool where he can get an

extra year of the intensive therapy they wanted to give him while he

was learning what he needed to learn in kindergarten. Getting him

up to speed by kindergarten is the goal.

Please search the archives for 'anyone' who complained about

starting a " late talker " child at 6 in kindergarten (none) vs. the

many who have problems that started their child at 5. If you do

start your child at 5 regardless as some do for the same reason you

state -the dad wants that -hope as well that your child is then one

of the few as reported here that does do well regardless ....after

kindergarten.

Again -kindergarten shouldn't be much different then a really good

multisensory preschool. Some preschools in fact can be more

advanced then some kindergarten classes!

Please read this again -and please feel free to take this entire

letter to your IEP team -they can contact me if they have questions

772 335 5135. The proof is in the pudding. If they want to save

money -they'll do the right thing and let your child have one more

year of preschool and therapy to get up to speed now for

kindergarten at 6.

In the PreK class she would/should continue to get the services she

needs/all of them that are needed and suggested as options you state

for

kindergarten, and concentrate on getting up to speed while again

giving her an extra year of development as well.

Please don't get caught up in the 'want her to be challenged'

thing. Learning how to talk/ overcoming motor planning impairments

and behavioral issues are all challenging and important issues that

you still do have time to work on before she starts her 'real'

academic career. Try working on those issues with a 7 year old or

older child while she is trying to be like the rest and keep up with

her peers on real school work -not finger painting!

Kindergarten again just is not much more challenging than a really

good multisensory preschool/preK -perhaps switch to another

class/school if the one your child is in is not appropriate for your

child's needs. Both a good preschool and then kindergarten are

there to give children a solid base and love of learning if done

well. And if done well it's only got to be done once. And..again -

you don't want to repeat kindergarten unless 100% necessary. If any

question that she will have to repeat a grade -hold back to start at

6 vs. 5. Why? Below is just one research study. And again -if

anyone knows any downside to starting a child at 6 -please do tell

us and the internet why -since right now it's unknown.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From: " kiddietalk " <kiddietalk@...>

Date: Wed Jan 7, 2004 8:58 pm

Subject: Re: Finally!!! (no wait -really) kiddietalk

Hi Dena,

One point that was missed is the option of not starting your child

in kindergarten until she turns six -which I highly suggest you

explore. Did I say highly -based on what you wrote below I'd say

delay unless you have a good reason to start at five. And

the spec. ed small class vs. mainstream large class is just theory -

not real world 'students rise to the level of expectations'. If you

think kindergarten is coming up fast -first grade comes up just as

fast and much more is expected, sitting at a desk, reading, writing,

math, science...it's not just getting ready for school anymore like

kindergarten -it's school.

Unless you want your child to stay in special ed -chances are based

on how much more is expected in first grade for work and

independence -if he or she is not able to make it in the mainstream

class in kindergarten -then by first he or she 'may' be ready for

mainstream first -but odds are... Well -you all know my opinion -

now for the stats -look at the research and more in these archives

below (and search the archives -much more there on this topic) The

first one was in response to a parent that had a school that would

keep the child back to repeat if they were not ready for first...and

this parent appeared to think this would be better than another year

of a good multisensory preschool like hearing impaired schools or

others posted about here (which is different than just " normal "

preschools which as reported here may or may not be a good thing for

a child with a moderate to severe delay in speech for self esteem

and frustration reasons to just name two of the negatives posted

here):

" Unlike preschool -which not one of those children ended up in the

same school -all of the kids Dakota and Tanner went to kindergarten

with -as a group went on to first grade together -etc. Perhaps we

were different in that we were very involved with the school -and the

other families -and Dakota and Tanner became really good friends

with some others. Since we've moved -Dakota and some of his friends

from NJ are still " best friends " that now only see each other once

in a while and mostly just talk on the phone -but still close.

From what I read however -once you start a child -holding them back

is not a good thing. Of course those you know may be different than

what research (and I) have found. Some people like I say -need to

learn the hard way. And I can tell you for a fact that whether a

child is able to say it or not -staying back when all your friends

move on is not good. Children who have parents that delay entry

I've just read do better than those who have to stay back and

repeat. Why? Funny I didn't read this till now but look at just

these two possible reasons:

Parents who choose to delay their children's school entry may have a

higher level of awareness and involvement.

The stigmatizing effect of being required to repeat a grade may harm

children's academic progress.

May want to read this and argue with the research -I'm only stating

what I found -and I stick to it. I'll even go as far as saying now

in almost all cases -don't start a child with apraxia, motor

planning delays, DSI, and any other delays in kindergarten at 5 -

start them at 6. (especially without a doubt for those of you with

children like mine with summer birthdays!!!)

" Research Link / When Children Aren't Ready for Kindergarten

H. Holloway

How can schools promote the achievement of children who are old

enough to enroll in kindergarten but who are not developmentally

ready to succeed? Two approaches that parents and schools commonly

use are delaying the child's entry into kindergarten and retaining

the child in kindergarten for an extra year.

Giving children an extra year, whether through delayed entry or

kindergarten retention, makes sense in view of the ample research

suggesting that the youngest children tend to lag behind their

classmates. West, Denton, and Reaney (2000) found that in the spring

of their kindergarten year, younger children had lower reading and

mathematics knowledge and skills on average than did their older

counterparts. These researchers also found that older kindergartners

were more likely to persist at tasks, more eager to learn, and

better able to pay attention.

Delayed Entry Versus Kindergarten Retention

To avoid the disadvantage suffered by younger students, some parents

choose to delay the entry of their children into kindergarten. Zill,

Loomis, and West (1997) found that children whose kindergarten entry

was delayed so that they started kindergarten when they were older

performed better than their younger classmates in grades 1 and 2.

These researchers concluded that the extra year before starting

kindergarten does not harm the children who are held out and may

help most of them.

In contrast, the researchers discovered that children who repeated

kindergarten were doing worse than their younger classmates on most

school performance indicators by 1st or 2nd grade. For instance, two-

thirds of the retained students had received some negative feedback

from teachers compared with less than half of the nonretained

students. The retained students were also much more likely to have

problems concentrating, to perform below their capabilities, and to

act up and disrupt the class. Zill, Loomis, and West concluded that

repeating kindergarten had not helped those children and may have

actually made matters worse.

Reasons for the Differences

What explains the difference between the school performance of

delayed-entry children and those who repeat kindergarten? Both

groups of students are older than most of their classmates, so why

don't the beneficial effects of being older apply to both groups?

Some possible answers are that

The underlying developmental problems of the two groups may differ.

The two groups may have different socioeconomic backgrounds.

Parents who choose to delay their children's school entry may have a

higher level of awareness and involvement.

The stigmatizing effect of being required to repeat a grade may harm

children's academic progress.

(read full article)

http://www.ascd.org/publications/ed_lead/200304/holloway.html

(go with your gut ....after you research all the research)

(and print out the above link to bring to the IEP)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As you know I agree . One thing far too many parents don't

appreciate until hindsight kicks -is that it's not just being ready

for kindergarten...it's being ready for first grade, second grade,

third, and the rest -it's only easy for the first year.

As I have made very clear -Tanner didn't start kindergarten until 6 -

which was 'normal' for all of the children in the town we moved from

in NJ (which is not far from NYC and a blue ribbon school district)

and he was in OT through out kindergarten working on fine motor

skills which he transitioned out of at the end of kindergarten. He

was top in a mainstream kindergarten class in a public school with

pull out ST and OT -and is now mainstreamed in an accelerated

academics private school in 1st receiving straight A's in

everything. I know he would not have been ready for this earlier.

Some here say they are happy they started their apraxic child at

five -most say it was a mistake if they did -and a few like me who

waited to start their child until 6...all happy about it. Starting

younger than 5...for an apraxic child? Why in the world would

anyone want to do that?

Start your child when you believe they have the best chance for

staying in the mainstream throughout school -and without struggles.

(key words " self esteem " )

Here is a good archive on this here

/message/2482

6 and

here

is another to/from Tricia -a mom to talk to about this:

From: " kiddietalk " <kiddietalk@...>

Date: Tue Nov 11, 2003 6:08 pm

Subject: Re: Starting Kindergarten vs. Waiting

Tricia when I wrote about the only two families that started their

child at five instead of six in kindergarten in our old NJ town (us

being one of

them because we didn't know) guess what? Dakota and Molly (the

other five year old in Dakota's grade) were two of the three

children that the teacher's suspected ADHD in.

Granted -many others, including MDs, viewed Dakota as having some

type of ADHD until we used the right oil therapy with him, but

maturity surely had something to do with it for Dakota and for Molly

as well. And...in Dakota's case, since his birthday is July 30th -he

was not just the youngest in that he started at five -he is still

the youngest even when with other five year olds.

One of the complaints about Dakota to us? during story time " he will

lay down on the rug instead of sitting up the whole time like the

other children " At five he was over a year younger then the rest!

Dakota did well in school, however I don't like that he had so much

pressure put on him from five years old to behave. He went through

a year of his young life (first grade was the worst)

hearing " Dakota! Sit up! " " Dakota, pay attention! " " Dakota! " etc.

Dakota loved all his friends and did too well academically to keep

him back -but by the skin of his teeth he was not put on medications

for ADHD -and we took him for many opinions. Back then I had many

conversations with the other parents too (was a class mom) -and we

just couldn't keep Dakota back even though maturity wise it would

have been best. He had, again, all his friends that were all one

year older - and was a good student.

(update -key word here is " used to be " for those that are happy they

started an apraxic child at five -hope you are still happy down the

road -I used to be and I'm not now) I used to be happy that I

started Dakota when I did at five and Tanner at six. But as the

years went on, I believe it would have been best for Dakota to have

started at six too. He's still not the most mature in his classes

even today -and still the youngest -and again doing too well to keep

back. He's typically a straight A and B student.

Tanner not only had that extra year developmentally to grow so his

motor planning and speech was much improved -that year did make a

difference, but Tanner is also always the well behaved mature child

in the class. He is friends with everyone -including the teacher.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

How old is your daughter now? You may have another option you have

not thought of yet -waiting one more year to start and having her

preschool program paid for by your school district for one more

year -it's what we did -and in the long run we are saving them money

because Tanner, in spite of the fact his speech is still not

perfect, is now mainstreamed and doing great. There is much on this

in the archives -as well as your question about learning to read

(Tanner who is apraxic was one of the top students in his

kindergarten class -and loves reading simple books like Dr. Seuss

etc. -and with the Cat In the Hat movie coming out now!!)

In general -I feel strongly about putting your child into the least

restrictive environment -even if a " special " Kindergarten is

available. As I said to Tanner's IEP team -we are talking about

kindergarten here -not a rocket science class -if a child isn't

given a chance to make it in a mainstream Kindergarten -than what

grade do you propose is best to start them in the mainstream?!

Speech ability is no indication of intelligence -schools for the

deaf are aware of this. I so love and miss Kanter who was the

Executive Director of, and the life behind -the Summit Speech

School - who passed away the other day of cancer.

I don't know how I'll ever be able to think of the Summit Speech

School without thinking of , in awe of her -and can not

imagine that school without that amazing lady running it. No wonder

members here are having trouble getting their hearing apraxic

children into that school today - apparently wasn't there to

help bring our children a voice anymore -she was too sick.

Please quote her to whoever tells you that your child isn't able to

attend this school (or one like it) if they are not deaf -her

message should carry on even though she is no longer with us. " Our

hope and our goal is to mainstream these children into their local

kindergartens " Kanter -Executive Director Summit Speech

School. " children with apraxia appear to benefit from the same

therapies as their hearing impaired peers "

http://www.cherab.org/news/insideedition.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And the archives are funny to read -here is one where I say I didn't

believe Tanner will still be " top in the class " due to the type of

school:

I would strongly advise to do the extra year of preschool and start

your child at 6 in all day mainstream kindergarten unless you are

positive that he is ready now. And when ready I would try to have

him start out right in the mainstream all day. In Dakota's

kindergarten class the children that were integrated in from the

contained class did come in -but it's not the same as just having

them be in the one class all day.

The public school talked about starting Tanner in a self contained

class for kindergarten while his private school therapists and

teachers as well as Glenn and I and his doctors pushed for

mainstream. My point was -if he can't make it in kindergarten " it's

not rocket science class " -what age do you suggest starting them in

the mainstream?

Once they start kindergarten -you will not want to hold them back

either -they make friends. I found the other children to be a great

inspiration and help to both my boys Dakota and Tanner.

I can tell you that in Tanner's case it ends up the old public

school was wrong and his parents, MDs and regular therapists and

teachers knew best. (is that a shock to anyone?) My thought was and

still is give the kid a chance to prove he can do it. Speech

problems do not have to be an indication of academic ability.

Tanner started mainstream kindergarten at 6 -and he was one of the

top in his class -which is the best feeling in the world. Tanner

will this year however be entering first grade in a private

accelerated academics school with children that were fluent readers

and writers since kindergarten -so well advanced of the public

school expectations -so Tanner will no longer be top in the class.

I believe Tanner will push to keep up and succeed -that's the way he

is. I we will help him too. (we have a tutor for him already) Why

the push? The more ignorance I learn about speech and language

disorders the more I believe that the sooner Tanner learns to write

and type his complex thoughts that he can't yet express -the

better. There is still such negative opinion overall of those who

don't speak well -and very little in the way of appropriate IQ

testing for the older school age children.

And may want to quote this:

" Studies of non-poverty children in different types of preschool are

simply not definitive, but suggestive. One study by Hirsh Pasek and

Cone compared the children who had attended an academic preschool

with those who had attended a developmentally appropriate program.

Although there were no academic differences between the groups, the

children attending the academic program were more anxious and had

lower self esteem. These result attentuated after the children began

to attend public school. An older study, was carried out by Carelton

Washburn, the famed ton Illinois educator. He had different

classes of children introduced to reading at different grade levels

from kindergarten to second grade.

The children who were introduced to reading at these three levels

were then retested when they were in junior high school.

They were assessed by raters who did not know at what grade level

reading instruction had commenced. What Washburn found was there was

little difference between the level of reading achievement among the

groups. The children who had been introduced to reading late,

however, were more motivated and spontaneous readers than those who

had begun early. Similar findings were reported in the Plowden

Report in England which compared children from the informal schools

of rural areas with children who attended the more formal schools of

urban centers. "

http://www.educationnext.org/unabridged/20012/elkind.html

Happy Holidays!

> Dear

>

> In one of your mail I read that its better to delay

> kindergarten until age of 6 for an apraxic child, who is develop.

> delayed in other areas also (thats what I understood from that

mail).

>

> My son who will be 4 next month and is not talking and is develop.

> delayed in all areas ( born very premature at 23wks of gestation

and

> his neurodevelop. is following him very closely for PDD, has very

> few traits of mild PDD). Based on his current progress, I don't

> think he will be ready for kindergarten next year. I know its

early,

> but I want to know if I delay his admission in kindergarten next

> yr, what he will do during that year besides getting therapies

> privately, one biggest disadvantage I see is that he will lose the

> services through the school(rightnow in sp. preschool in Edison,

NJ,

> he is getting Speech 2xwk individually and OT,PT 1xwk). Please

give

> me suggestions to plan his entrance in Kindergarten.

>

> Just to let you know that this group has given a new meanning to

my

> life, it has changed my life,its very helpful and thanks a lot for

> your hard work and all the wonderful members of this site,

>

> Archana

Getting Ready for Kindergarten

Is kindergarten right around the corner? Here are some things to

think

about as the school year approaches.

What immunizations will my child need?

Before children can start kindergarten most states require a physical

examination by a doctor or other health care provider. They also

need to

have all immunizations up-to-date. Be sure to start early so they're

ready for that first day. If you're not sure what immunizations your

children need, talk to their doctor, your local health department.

What will the teacher expect my child to be able to do?

A child entering kindergarten is usually able to walk, run, and

climb.

She should be able to hold and use a pencil, crayons, and scissors.

She should talk well enough for others to understand what she is

saying

and know that words can be written as well as spoken. Help her see

and

hear how objects and sounds may be alike or different.

What group skills does my child need?

Does your child get along with other children and adults? In

kindergarten he'll need to be able to work alone and with others. He

can be

an

" old hand " at these skills if you work with him on

listening to a story in a group;

following rules;

remembering and carrying out two or three directions;

taking turns, respecting others' property, and sharing;

taking care of his own things, such as his coat;

going to the toilet and washing his hands; and

finishing his work.

What kinds of knowledge and experience help prepare my child?

Help her learn about the world around her. Take her on interesting

trips-to the library or grocery store, on a bus ride, or to a museum

or

park-and talk with her about what she sees. Encourage her curiosity,

and

help her find answers to her questions.

Teach her the names of colors and shapes.

Make sure she knows her full name and how to get to school and back.

What will my local school expect of my child?

Find out by taking advantage of any early kindergarten screening or

school visits your school may offer. Call the school office and ask

if

there is information on what is expected of students and parents.

What if my child needs special help to be ready for kindergarten?

Call your local school district office to find out about preschool

screening or services for children who have special needs.

Reprinted with permission from the Illinois Early Learning Project

=====

[Guest guest]

Hi Amy,

Thanks for the support. Just being here and reading what others have

to say (not just in response to me) is encouraging.

It is hard to know what to do. I really struggled with holding my son

back a year. I ended up taking the advice of his DD teacher, and I'm

thinking that was probably made a mistake. We held him back on the

basis of language and behavior, not learning. Everyone assured me

that, a year ago, K would have been too difficult for my son to cope

with. I'm not so sure now. I should have trusted that I understood my

son's needs and abilities better than his teachers did.

I do have to say, Friday was a far cry from the day before. When we

got to his school, the two kids already there both came to my son, and

wanted him to sit by them. And after school, a different one of his

classmates asked if my kiddo could come over to his house sometime. So

I'm hopeful that my son won't be completely ostracized this year. I'm

still greatly concerned about other kids laughing at and teasing him,

but I'll do what I can to minimize that, and help him deal with it if

it begins to bother him. I'm glad I actually voiced my concerns here,

because it serves as a reminder to me that they are real and

justified, and that I need to keep an eye on the situation, and take

some preventative action to make sure my son is in a healthy environment.

Again, just reading everything here has provided a huge emotional

support. I've been focused on replying to those that have replied to

me, but I'll start participating in some of the other threads as soon

as I get my footing here. Thank you for saying hello, and making me

feel welcome. I look forward to getting to know you (and everyone)

better. Thank you again for the support.

>

> Hi quix,

>

> I'm not sure if you've gotten a lot of response? Please don't

feel excluded. I think with the new discovery of Vit E we're all a

little focused on that.

>

> I don't have any good advice. That is my fear. To be in a

situation like this. That is why I chose to keep my son home another

year from school.. He will be 5 next month and would have started

school tomorrow. I'm not at all suggesting that for you. Just

letting you know it's one of the reasons I feared sending him..

>

> I feel like I'll face this one day too. It truly breaks my heart.

I don't understand how kids can be so mean. I would tell my older

daughter (typical child) when someone was mean to her. " Isn't it sad?

" They must have a rough home life " " I bet they hear their mom and dad

talk that way. " " Are you glad your not like that? " I kind of turned

it around with the attitude that the kids must hear unkind words at

home. I think it made her feel better about herself. Although she

was older than 5 and understood more.

>

> Sorry I'm not much help but I wanted to let you know I feel for you.

>

> Amy D.

>

[Guest guest]

Hello Leah,

You're right. The reality does hurt. We got a taste of it a couple of

years ago when a child at the park wouldn't play with my son because

he was " a baby who couldn't talk. " It hurts just as much now as it did

then. You never get inured to hurts done to your child.

I think we sometimes take for granted our ability to communicate as we

do. When that ability is taken away, or severely limited, it's

horribly frustrating for all involved. My son's first (partially

intelligible) word didn't come until 3 years, 7 months. It's been a

slow progression, and a heartbreaking experience. He didn't even

babble as a baby, but he loves trying to talk with everyone now. He's

not shy about verbalizing. It's just that no one (outside of myself

and his grandmother) can understand him very well. People just sort of

ignore him, and it's so sad to watch him be upset for thinking no one

likes him. Poor kiddo!

I remember all too well how difficult it is to communicate when your

little one has such a limited vocabulary. The gestures do help. My son

used sign language for common words (his most-used was the sign for

" Stop " ) and that helped a great deal. It gave him a way to get his

message across and that helped to ease some of his frustration. I know

a lot of experts say not to use the gestures and signs as a crutch,

but when it's the only way your child can communicate, I think that's

better than nothing.

Anyway, thank you for the links to the letters. I read them, and they

were helpful. I think I may write my own letter to be given to those

at school who will have contact with my son. Thank you for the idea,

and for your response. I hope things go well for you and this year.

~quix

>

> Hello Quix,

>

> This is 's Mom Leah. I am sorry to hear that this has

happened to you and no matter what you do, where you go, or how well

you try to protect your kiddo, this is a reality that HURTS!!! my

just started 3-year old pre-k at our local elementary school.

the good thing is that this school only holds pre-k & kindergarten.

all of our elementary schools here are broke down to 2 years, pre-k &

k, 1 & 2, 3 & 4, 5 & 6, 7 & 8, then high school. i really like it b/c

they only go to school with ones that are at the same age. but as i

walked jacob to his class yesterday, a little girl said hey to him and

when jacob only waved at her she stopped and asked why he wouldn't

speak to her. i don't think she was trying to be ugly but i do think

it kindof hurt her feelings so i told her that he did speak to her in

the best way that he knows how. she asked what was wrong with him and

i told her that he does not speak as well she & i do. she was ok with

that. she went on her way and

> i noticed jacob kindof seemed to be sad. it broke my heart. but to

answer your question on what to do or who to talk to, i want to send

you something that i got off the apraxia kids website. i have given it

to his therapist, his teachers, the principal, the guidance counselor,

and some of the teacher aides, for all of them to be more familiar

with my little jacob. it gives them a small insight on his problem and

helps them to know how to handle him a little better because he does

have so much frustration with this apraxia....by the way my jacob only

has a vocab of about 5-10 real words and about 15 word approximations

or sounds. he mostly uses gestures. well i will try to email this

letter to you so that maybe it can help you. also, in the mornings

when you drop off your little one, if you notice that there is one

paticular teacher on duty all the time you may want to consider

stopping and talking to her/him one morning, even if it is not his

teacher, and just share some

> of what you have gone through, and are going through with them, of

course i would not do it in front of the little one but just share

with them that way they can help watch out for " bullies " that may be

being ugly to him and maybe they can intervine to stop the verbal

abuse. yes kids will be kids and no they mostly at this age do not

realize that they are being ugly or mean to someone, but there is

ALWAYS something you can do about it. i make my presence known at

jacob's school and i know most of the teachers there, not personally

but i have talked with them, and they have been wonderful with jacob

in protecting him from those harsh moments. i hope i have been of some

help even if it was only to reassure you that you are not alone in

this terrible fright. good luck to you both and i will send you the

page i told you about.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Sherry,

That is a difficult situation to be in. I think mainstream would be

very hard for a child with no actual words. Does he seem to understand

what's said to him for the most part?

My son has become better at mimicking just in the last year. Before,

he just couldn't figure out how to get the sounds to come out. We're

making progress, but it's slow going, and a lot of work. One of my

family members thought I was being silly when I called one day and

told her my son had figured out how to blow. But I was genuinely

ecstatic. It was a big step for him. But it does take a lot of work.

Is your son in any sort of speech therapy? If not, there are still a

lot of exercises you can do with your son to make him more familiar

with how his mouth works, and such. I'm sure you're already aware (as

you're a member of this group), but I thought I'd throw that out

there, just in case.

It's good that you're a teacher. I'm sure that will help should you

decide to go the homeschool route. It's so hard when you want to do

what's best for your kiddo, but you're hindered by things such as

financial considerations. That's the worst feeling in the world, to

know there's something that might help your child, but also know that

you don't know how you'll ever manage it simply because of money. I

find myself in that situation more often than I'd like to admit.

Good luck with everything. I know it's a hard road. I wish you guys

well. Thanks for responding. I appreciate the support.

~quix

>

> I'm in the same boat with you! My little guy will be 5 in a couple

of weeks. THankfully! He missed the kindergarten cut off date. He is

in a developmental semi-private preschool. I have NO idea what to do

next year. There just aren't a lot of options. There is a speech

school that has evaluated him, but he isn't doing a good job mimicking

sounds even. I suspect apraxia, but since he has no actual words......

> HE has a place at the school IF he starts to mimick sounds. Until

then, well, I just don't know what to do. Our local public schools

does NOT have a good track record with special needs kiddos. I am a

qualified teacher so I am considering homeschooling. Just not quite

sure how to afford it, but I may have to figure that out as well.

>

> Good luck on your decision.

>

> Sherry

>

[Guest guest]

Hey Debbie,

For me, it's less about affording the curriculum than it is about

finding a time to do the schooling. I work during the day, and any

homeschooling I would do would necessarily have to be in the early

evening through night. I don't think that would be a good arrangement

for my boy. Not to mention the fact that I'd then have to find and pay

for daycare for my son while I'm at work. It just doesn't seem like a

feasible situation at present.

As for the socialization, it's more that my son loves to be around

other people, other children. Were I to homeschool, I think he'd be

relatively isolated, or at least more so than he is now. Again, not

the best thing for him (unless the socialization proves more

detrimental than helpful).

But I'll wait and see how the next few weeks go for him at school. If

I notice a decline, I'll figure something out. Part of me wishes to

homeschool (as all the individual attention virtually guarantees the

kiddo will be as sharp as a tack), but I don't want to take away an

opportunity for my son to make friends. That's an important part of

his development at this stage. I just hope it works out for him. But

my mind is certainly open to the homeschool option should it not.

Thanks again for the advice.

~quix

>

> Sherry and Quix,

> Homeschooling does not need to be expensive (I spend less than

$300 per year for curriculum). Single parents do homeschool and as

for the socialization issue, study after study shows homeschooled

children are more sociable than their non-homeschooled peers. The

internet has tons of info--I encourage you to check it out. --Debbie

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I don't think the children that pushed my son were being intentionally

malicious. My concern was that they'd realize they could be physically

rough with him and he'd just laugh it off, and that that might lead to

increasing aggression. I was especially concerned as this happened

outside, on the concrete, as the children were awaiting their

after-school rides. Not the best place to be playing, especially like

that. That the substitute teacher didn't notice… I don't know. I've

nothing against her and she seems nice enough, but I'll be glad when a

more experienced teacher is in charge of my son.

As for moving, or a private school, financially, we just aren't in a

position to do that. I don't think it would make a lot of difference

anyway, and I'm sure that kind of measure isn't necessary. I didn't

mean to make it sound like the institution was out of control. I think

it's just a bad situation with a substitute teacher who doesn't have

any experience with special needs kids. Not an ideal situation, but

not one I can do a lot about, aside from taking my son out of school,

which I hesitate to do. At least this arrangement is temporary.

My son's currently on the waiting list for an SLP. The place he was

receiving therapy before suddenly decided he wasn't apraxic at all

(though they were the ones that diagnosed him three years

earlier),that this " behavior " is just the attention-seeking type, and

that he's just been deliberately not using a " big-boy voice. " 24/7.

For five years. Six, if you count not babbling at all when he was a

baby. When they refused to listen to my objections, I cut ties with

that office. Anyway, bottom line, we're in between SLP's, and my son

doesn't have a neuroMD. I kind of feel like we're on an island at the

moment.

I think that's part of the reason I was so upset. I felt like I didn't

have anyone to turn to. The speech therapist at the school hasn't

called me back yet, though I left her a message on Tuesday (even

before I had cause for such concern), and talking to the sub. teacher

won't do much good, as she's somewhat like a deer in headlights right

now anyway. What a mess.

But I was encouraged on Friday. As I wrote in another post, the

interactions I saw my son having were much, much better than those on

Thursday. But I'll still go on the offensive and try to make sure the

hurtful behavior doesn't happen again.

I do appreciate all the advice you and others have given the past

couple of days. It really has helped, both in terms of guidance, and

support. I hope I can contribute and help others as much as you guys

have helped me. Thank you.

~quix

>

> Quix, it's wise for you to question...and follow your gut. The fact

> that you are that concerned tells me there probably is a problem

> there. I so trust parental instinct.

>

> However on the other hand...I'm not sure from this email if the

> other children were playing rough, or just being mean. Kids do push

> each other in play at times. I have to also add that as much as I

> support those that homeschool -my boys LOVE the social aspect of

> school, and yes all of us with " late talkers " had to deal with some

> type of teasing here or there in the early years -but with

> strategies -like those links I posted and circle of friends -there

> doesn't have to be constant teasing throughout the years. Cut it in

> the bud.

>

> Again -both my boys are never teased today -or nothing more than

> anyone else if they are ever and just don't hear about it. I had to

> walk with Dakota into his new class the first day or school this

> week because he had so many books -and the his friends started

> clapping when they saw Dakota was in their class too. For Tanner -

> brand new school at the open house with a bunch of new kids he never

> met before Tanner started playing tag and football....and he said to

> me he's decided he likes the new school better (he left behind a

> large group of friends from his old school too -but he's still

> friends with them) Yes Tanner my once shy and withdrawn apraxic

> child is now known as the child who is outgoing and friendly. As

> good natured as they are -both Tanner and Dakota like to play rough

> at times and wrestle with each other and with other children. If

> they are laughing and nobody is hurt I figure it's play. If I don't

> like the play I redirect them (which is what the teacher standing

> there could have done! Again tells me this school sounds out of

> control)

>

> But what if these kids were teasing and being mean and even worse -

> in a school with incompetent professionals who don't have a clue?

>

> Have you checked out other public or private schools in your area to

> see what else is available? May seem a bit extreme but if in fact

> your child's school is that out of control bad - moving one town

> over may not be insane. Not that you can't get your child into

> another school system without moving -but at least it will guarantee

> getting your child into another placement as soon as you move.

>

> What state are you in? If this was a case of out of control

> students with teachers who are in a fog -I used to know a reporter

> from Fox in NYC who was always looking for stories like this to do

> shame on you reports. Today local media can be feared more than

> attorneys -and we all have local news teams. And speaking of

> attorneys, not a bad idea for you to at least consult with a special

> ed attorney. The first visit is probably free -at least you can

> talk to someone over the phone -it will make you feel more empowered

> if nothing else. The situations you reported in the two emails if

> they both are as bad as you report - are unacceptable, and prove a

> hostile environment. They can help you advocate for immediate out

> of district placement.

>

> Even when it's not extreme like in the situation you may be in -

> you'll learn that you have to " play the game " to get him out of this

> school and into appropriate out of district placement. It's always

> best to have some type of outside advocate to help you -have you

> confided in your child's SLP? Does your child have a neuroMD? The

> more the merrier. Let them help you to advocate for your child.

>

> Document everything...keep a paper trail. Also take the names of

> each of these children that are pushing or name calling. I'm sure

> their mommies and daddies would just love to know what they are

> doing at school so 'they' can teach them to grow to be well adjusted

> caring adults. The world certainly can use more of them!

>

> =====

>

[Guest guest]

Quix I'm happy to hear that it did look like play to you as well! I

wouldn't believe that your child's laughter with their play will

encourage them to be even rougher with them...it's just possible

that once you do the circle of friends that he will have the most

incredible " body guards " that will stand up for him and protect him.

(and...be his friends!)

Doesn't sound like you need the out of district placement option

yet...but just to clarify -if it's done through the IEP and agreed

by all -out of district placement at another public or private

school is at no cost to you. My son Tanner was schooled in

preschool at the Summit Speech School for the hearing impaired and

deaf...and he is not hearing impaired or deaf -but the program was

proven to be appropriate for apraxia -and his preschool at the time

was inappropriate.

On another message I read how you were concerned that you held your

son back prior to starting kindergarten at the advice of his DD

teacher. Good for her or him! Educational smeducational! If a

child is a genius and needs to be advanced they will (I have a 159

IQ for example and missed most of kindergarten because I was in the

hospital due to celiac and other health issues at the time - but

passed the tests to be sent up to 1st)

On the other hand...a child's developmental skills are a critical

part of kindergarten readiness. As we are all focused on social

issues in regards to your child -that is a focus as well in school.

Would he have been ready last year? Below is a huge archive -with a

study funded by the US DOE that proved that it's best to hold a

child back prior to starting kindergarten if there are any delays in

any area.

Being advanced up -very good. Being held back -very very bad!

Huge archive on when do you start kindergarten

From: " kiddietalk " <kiddietalk@...>

Date: Mon Aug 15, 2005 2:36 pm

Subject: Re: question about kindergarten kiddietalk

Dear Archana,

Below are some archives that will help answer your question. In a

nutshell your child is entitled to continue preschool until 6 if the

IEP team deems that to be appropriate. Appropriate as you can

imagine is far too tangible a word in something as important as

decisions for what is or is not " most appropriate " for your child's

education. They may say throwing an essentially nonverbal 5 year

old child who still needs tons of therapies into kindergarten as

" most appropriate "

Fortunately, you and your husband are part of that IEP team to make

that decision and you can share outside information to support your

stand...such as private evals and opinions,

and all of the following which has helped others. I'd

also suggest showing up with a copy of The Late Talker. All the

stories from The Late Talker are from this group and printed with

permission from the families. Oh, and let them know we are working

on the next book and that we may be interviewing you!

If your public school can no longer provide appropriate preschool

placement until your child is 6, they will need to provide out of

district preschool placement. You would be amazed what they find

they can do when they are confronted with that option.

Share the study posted below about the reasons to delay kindergarten

vs. retaining. If you need help you can call me at 973 390 7541.

(Jersey line to still reach me at even though we are now in

Florida!) Hope the following helps!

From: " kiddietalk " <kiddietalk@...>

Date: Sun Dec 14, 2003 10:56 am

Subject: Re: Waiting on Kindergarten/long (even for me!) answer

Hi !

Tanner was in out of district placement at the Summit Speech School

for the hearing impaired/deaf which was a preschool placement that

went up to six years old http://www.oraldeafed.org/schools/summit/

I'm not sure what happens with in district placement from State to

State -or country to country. I can however share my experience

with this:

Tanner at five was still not able to hold a pencil correctly nor was

he good at imitating circles etc. He would work hard -he's always

been a child that wants to do what others tell him to do. Due to

motor planning and weakness problems however -he still needed OT.

His speech was much improved by five -but he spoke like a baby. Put

it this way -Becca -the child who just turned three speaks far more

and far more articulate than Tanner was at five. Tanner was

developmentally slow on speech and language development. Another

theory of mine is that our children do NOT have the diagnosis of

speech language impairment -but they appear to have that when they

developmentally go through that stage. (this is the stage where

they are doing sentences -but mix up syntax -etc.) Just like the

stuttering stage can last longer and happen much later -with apraxic

children not enough studies have gone into what is " normal " for

them. So again -don't want them to be inappropriately labeled. At

five Tanner was still in intensive therapy -and needed that extra

year of intensive therapy for speech and occupational therapy. He

was only in a half a day program -and by the time he came home on

the 15 minute bus ride -he would fall asleep on the bus. I'd have

to wake him up and then he would come in and nap more. Tanner

needed much more sleep than other five year olds.

When it was time for IEP -I was told not to have him evaluated -

there was a chance that he was doing well enough that he wouldn't

qualify for continued out of district placement until six. What

happened then was that both my town school and Summit Speech School

professionals both agreed that it was most appropriate to keep

Tanner in preschool until six. Here is my favorite part of the

story from the archives : " Funny story is that

Tanner's case manager at Tanner's five year old IEP meeting said " In

our town we like to start five year olds in Kindergarten " I

actually laughed when she said that (couldn't help it) and said " Our

town? I live in this town and was a Kindergarten classroom mom for

Dakota who I started at five year olds and he and Molly ___ were

just about the only two five year olds in the entire Kindergarten

class -so suggesting to start special needs speech impaired apraxic

children at five when all the quote unquote normal kids don't start

till six is not the best idea to say the least! "

Needless to say -our town paid for Tanner to continue in his " out of

district " placement at the Summit Speech School in New Providence NJ

till six. We withheld testing which I was advised we could do -

since he would have " tested out of the program " So in fact your

town could pay for in district or out of district preschool

placement from five to six years old if you and the child study team

agree that will be best to wait till six. Keep in mind that apraxic

children take a bit longer at times to do what comes naturally to

other children -and in time they can perhaps blend in with others

with no damage to self esteem from teasing etc. I heard that in NJ

a child doesn't legally have to begin Kindergarten till seven -not

sure but anyone could check that out for their state/area. So don't

rule out paid preschool after five years old as an option...if that

is what is appropriate for your child. "

Bottom line is both the school system and you are looking for the

best way to get your child succeeding in the mainstream with as few

services as possible and as quickly as possible.

Here are some archives to answer more. Since there are a number -

and this is just the most recent -it's long and some may be

repeating but I don't have time to clean up. So if this isn't a

concern -just delete! )

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Check with other parents in your town if this is your first child to

find out what age most other parents in your town start their

children in Kindergarten. I started my son Dakota at five years old

for Kindergarten in the Warren/Berkeley Heights/Basking Ridge area

of NJ where we used to live -and he was one of the two five year

olds in the class. Most parents in our upper middle class town

didn't start their children until six for competitive sports and

academics reasons -so starting my " suspected ADHD late talker " five

year old Dakota in Kindergarten we saw as a mistake -and one we

could never fix.

Dakota was too bright to be left back once he started -socially he

was not as mature as his classmates however -but he became friends

with his class mates regardless -so repeating is something Dakota

didn't want.

What I didn't at all like was that each day the teachers had to keep

yelling over and over " Dakota... " fill in the blank - " do this or

don't do that or sit down or be quiet or pay attention " etc.

So not starting Tanner in Kindergarten at five was not even a

thought when we lived in NJ. Why put a double whammy on the kid and

start him at five when most of his classmates will be six -and in

some cases -already reading and writing!! Funny story is that

Tanner's case manager at Tanner's five year old IEP meeting said " In

our town we like to start five year olds in Kindergarten " I

actually laughed when she said that (couldn't help it) and said " Our

town? I live in this town and was a Kindergarten classroom mom for

Dakota who I started at five year olds and he and Molly ___ were

just about the only two five year olds in the entire Kindergarten

class -so suggesting to start special needs speech impaired apraxic

children at five when all the quote unquote normal kids don't start

till six is not the best idea to say the least! "

Needless to say -our town paid for Tanner to continue in his " out of

district " placement at the Summit Speech School in New Providence NJ

till six. We withheld testing which I was advised we could do -

since he would have " tested out of the program " So in fact your

town could pay for in district or out of district preschool

placement from five to six years old if you and the child study team

agree that will be best to wait till six. Keep in mind that apraxic

children take a bit longer at times to do what comes naturally to

other children -and in time they can perhaps blend in with others

with no damage to self esteem from teasing etc. I heard that in NJ

a child doesn't legally have to begin Kindergarten till seven -not

sure but anyone could check that out for their state/area. So don't

rule out paid preschool after five years old as an option...if that

is what is appropriate for your child.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Jola,

As always it's yours and your husband's decision on what age to

start a speech impaired child in kindergarten.

Keep in mind the following however.

Your child's school said some pretty horrible things. Sorry isn't

enough -what is the track record of this school district with verbal

impaired children?

What age does the average parent in your town start children in

kindergarten? Where I used to live in Warren NJ -the average age

was 6. (Warren is a more affluent/higher educated area -parents do

this for academic and athletic reasons for all children)

Kindergarten is not the grade to determine readiness -it's first

grade and beyond. You want your child (I'm guessing) to be

mainstreamed like the other kids K-12 -so you want to give him the

best chance to be in the mainstream.

Does your son still need speech therapy? How much time and energy

will be spent on that vs. learning to read and write and do math

etc. at 5 years old? Those of us however that start our children at

6 in kindergarten -we have that one extra year of therapy and

developmental time-in preschool without pressure..

Does your son need any occupational therapy? Can he sit upright and

how good is he at holding a pencil? By first grade he will be

expected to sit upright in a chair and hold a pencil and write for

longer periods of time then those children with hypotonia can do at

just 6 years old without prior therapy. Those of us however that

start our children at 6 in kindergarten -we have that one extra year

of therapy and developmental time at 5 -in preschool without

pressure.

Does kindergarten have as your husband believes " the challenge of

the other regular kids who he can emulate " ?

Does your child have just a simple delay in speech? Even then -he

could pick up speech from you and your husband -and from a regular

preschool placement.

This isn't a choice of kindergarten or not. The choice is 5 vs. 6

years old to

start? Frustration vs. encouragement? Which would happen?

If a child has a simple delay in speech -being thrown into a

situation with other children is a great way to get them talking.

Doesn't work like that for apraxia -some become more frustrated.

They don't just start talking. As far as more intensive therapy in

kindergarten? Why isn't your child getting that now if he's

entitled to it? In fact -my son Tanner had the most intensive years

of speech therapy ever during his preschool years. To me that's the

best time to do it -not in school years. By the time Tanner started

kindergarten at 6 he only needed 3 days a week of speech therapy -

not 5, and only 2 days a week of occupational therapy -not 3.

http://www.cherab.org/information/familiesrelate/letter.html

If your child isn't receiving intensive therapy now (and it's in his

IEP he will get that in kindergarten!!) -then that needs to be

addressed with the IEP team when you contact them to let them know

you want to reopen the IEP to hold off kindergarten till 6 -enroll

him in an appropriate multisensory preschool where he can get an

extra year of the intensive therapy they wanted to give him while he

was learning what he needed to learn in kindergarten. Getting him

up to speed by kindergarten is the goal.

Please search the archives for 'anyone' who complained about

starting a " late talker " child at 6 in kindergarten (none) vs. the

many who have problems that started their child at 5. If you do

start your child at 5 regardless as some do for the same reason you

state -the dad wants that -hope as well that your child is then one

of the few as reported here that does do well regardless ....after

kindergarten.

Again -kindergarten shouldn't be much different then a really good

multisensory preschool. Some preschools in fact can be more

advanced then some kindergarten classes!

Please read this again -and please feel free to take this entire

letter to your IEP team -they can contact me if they have questions

772 335 5135. The proof is in the pudding. If they want to save

money -they'll do the right thing and let your child have one more

year of preschool and therapy to get up to speed now for

kindergarten at 6.

In the PreK class she would/should continue to get the services she

needs/all of them that are needed and suggested as options you state

for

kindergarten, and concentrate on getting up to speed while again

giving her an extra year of development as well.

Please don't get caught up in the 'want her to be challenged'

thing. Learning how to talk/ overcoming motor planning impairments

and behavioral issues are all challenging and important issues that

you still do have time to work on before she starts her 'real'

academic career. Try working on those issues with a 7 year old or

older child while she is trying to be like the rest and keep up with

her peers on real school work -not finger painting!

Kindergarten again just is not much more challenging than a really

good multisensory preschool/preK -perhaps switch to another

class/school if the one your child is in is not appropriate for your

child's needs. Both a good preschool and then kindergarten are

there to give children a solid base and love of learning if done

well. And if done well it's only got to be done once. And..again -

you don't want to repeat kindergarten unless 100% necessary. If any

question that she will have to repeat a grade -hold back to start at

6 vs. 5. Why? Below is just one research study. And again -if

anyone knows any downside to starting a child at 6 -please do tell

us and the internet why -since right now it's unknown.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From: " kiddietalk " <kiddietalk@...>

Date: Wed Jan 7, 2004 8:58 pm

Subject: Re: Finally!!! (no wait -really) kiddietalk

Hi Dena,

One point that was missed is the option of not starting your child

in kindergarten until she turns six -which I highly suggest you

explore. Did I say highly -based on what you wrote below I'd say

delay unless you have a good reason to start at five. And

the spec. ed small class vs. mainstream large class is just theory -

not real world 'students rise to the level of expectations'. If you

think kindergarten is coming up fast -first grade comes up just as

fast and much more is expected, sitting at a desk, reading, writing,

math, science...it's not just getting ready for school anymore like

kindergarten -it's school.

Unless you want your child to stay in special ed -chances are based

on how much more is expected in first grade for work and

independence -if he or she is not able to make it in the mainstream

class in kindergarten -then by first he or she 'may' be ready for

mainstream first -but odds are... Well -you all know my opinion -

now for the stats -look at the research and more in these archives

below (and search the archives -much more there on this topic) The

first one was in response to a parent that had a school that would

keep the child back to repeat if they were not ready for first...and

this parent appeared to think this would be better than another year

of a good multisensory preschool like hearing impaired schools or

others posted about here (which is different than just " normal "

preschools which as reported here may or may not be a good thing for

a child with a moderate to severe delay in speech for self esteem

and frustration reasons to just name two of the negatives posted

here):

" Unlike preschool -which not one of those children ended up in the

same school -all of the kids Dakota and Tanner went to kindergarten

with -as a group went on to first grade together -etc. Perhaps we

were different in that we were very involved with the school -and the

other families -and Dakota and Tanner became really good friends

with some others. Since we've moved -Dakota and some of his friends

from NJ are still " best friends " that now only see each other once

in a while and mostly just talk on the phone -but still close.

From what I read however -once you start a child -holding them back

is not a good thing. Of course those you know may be different than

what research (and I) have found. Some people like I say -need to

learn the hard way. And I can tell you for a fact that whether a

child is able to say it or not -staying back when all your friends

move on is not good. Children who have parents that delay entry

I've just read do better than those who have to stay back and

repeat. Why? Funny I didn't read this till now but look at just

these two possible reasons:

Parents who choose to delay their children's school entry may have a

higher level of awareness and involvement.

The stigmatizing effect of being required to repeat a grade may harm

children's academic progress.

May want to read this and argue with the research -I'm only stating

what I found -and I stick to it. I'll even go as far as saying now

in almost all cases -don't start a child with apraxia, motor

planning delays, DSI, and any other delays in kindergarten at 5 -

start them at 6. (especially without a doubt for those of you with

children like mine with summer birthdays!!!)

" Research Link / When Children Aren't Ready for Kindergarten

H. Holloway

How can schools promote the achievement of children who are old

enough to enroll in kindergarten but who are not developmentally

ready to succeed? Two approaches that parents and schools commonly

use are delaying the child's entry into kindergarten and retaining

the child in kindergarten for an extra year.

Giving children an extra year, whether through delayed entry or

kindergarten retention, makes sense in view of the ample research

suggesting that the youngest children tend to lag behind their

classmates. West, Denton, and Reaney (2000) found that in the spring

of their kindergarten year, younger children had lower reading and

mathematics knowledge and skills on average than did their older

counterparts. These researchers also found that older kindergartners

were more likely to persist at tasks, more eager to learn, and

better able to pay attention.

Delayed Entry Versus Kindergarten Retention

To avoid the disadvantage suffered by younger students, some parents

choose to delay the entry of their children into kindergarten. Zill,

Loomis, and West (1997) found that children whose kindergarten entry

was delayed so that they started kindergarten when they were older

performed better than their younger classmates in grades 1 and 2.

These researchers concluded that the extra year before starting

kindergarten does not harm the children who are held out and may

help most of them.

In contrast, the researchers discovered that children who repeated

kindergarten were doing worse than their younger classmates on most

school performance indicators by 1st or 2nd grade. For instance, two-

thirds of the retained students had received some negative feedback

from teachers compared with less than half of the nonretained

students. The retained students were also much more likely to have

problems concentrating, to perform below their capabilities, and to

act up and disrupt the class. Zill, Loomis, and West concluded that

repeating kindergarten had not helped those children and may have

actually made matters worse.

Reasons for the Differences

What explains the difference between the school performance of

delayed-entry children and those who repeat kindergarten? Both

groups of students are older than most of their classmates, so why

don't the beneficial effects of being older apply to both groups?

Some possible answers are that

The underlying developmental problems of the two groups may differ.

The two groups may have different socioeconomic backgrounds.

Parents who choose to delay their children's school entry may have a

higher level of awareness and involvement.

The stigmatizing effect of being required to repeat a grade may harm

children's academic progress.

(read full article)

http://www.ascd.org/publications/ed_lead/200304/holloway.html

(go with your gut ....after you research all the research)

(and print out the above link to bring to the IEP)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As you know I agree . One thing far too many parents don't

appreciate until hindsight kicks -is that it's not just being ready

for kindergarten...it's being ready for first grade, second grade,

third, and the rest -it's only easy for the first year.

As I have made very clear -Tanner didn't start kindergarten until 6 -

which was 'normal' for all of the children in the town we moved from

in NJ (which is not far from NYC and a blue ribbon school district)

and he was in OT through out kindergarten working on fine motor

skills which he transitioned out of at the end of kindergarten. He

was top in a mainstream kindergarten class in a public school with

pull out ST and OT -and is now mainstreamed in an accelerated

academics private school in 1st receiving straight A's in

everything. I know he would not have been ready for this earlier.

Some here say they are happy they started their apraxic child at

five -most say it was a mistake if they did -and a few like me who

waited to start their child until 6...all happy about it. Starting

younger than 5...for an apraxic child? Why in the world would

anyone want to do that?

Start your child when you believe they have the best chance for

staying in the mainstream throughout school -and without struggles.

(key words " self esteem " )

Here is a good archive on this here

/message/2482

6 and

here

is another to/from Tricia -a mom to talk to about this:

From: " kiddietalk " <kiddietalk@...>

Date: Tue Nov 11, 2003 6:08 pm

Subject: Re: Starting Kindergarten vs. Waiting

Tricia when I wrote about the only two families that started their

child at five instead of six in kindergarten in our old NJ town (us

being one of

them because we didn't know) guess what? Dakota and Molly (the

other five year old in Dakota's grade) were two of the three

children that the teacher's suspected ADHD in.

Granted -many others, including MDs, viewed Dakota as having some

type of ADHD until we used the right oil therapy with him, but

maturity surely had something to do with it for Dakota and for Molly

as well. And...in Dakota's case, since his birthday is July 30th -he

was not just the youngest in that he started at five -he is still

the youngest even when with other five year olds.

One of the complaints about Dakota to us? during story time " he will

lay down on the rug instead of sitting up the whole time like the

other children " At five he was over a year younger then the rest!

Dakota did well in school, however I don't like that he had so much

pressure put on him from five years old to behave. He went through

a year of his young life (first grade was the worst)

hearing " Dakota! Sit up! " " Dakota, pay attention! " " Dakota! " etc.

Dakota loved all his friends and did too well academically to keep

him back -but by the skin of his teeth he was not put on medications

for ADHD -and we took him for many opinions. Back then I had many

conversations with the other parents too (was a class mom) -and we

just couldn't keep Dakota back even though maturity wise it would

have been best. He had, again, all his friends that were all one

year older - and was a good student.

(update -key word here is " used to be " for those that are happy they

started an apraxic child at five -hope you are still happy down the

road -I used to be and I'm not now) I used to be happy that I

started Dakota when I did at five and Tanner at six. But as the

years went on, I believe it would have been best for Dakota to have

started at six too. He's still not the most mature in his classes

even today -and still the youngest -and again doing too well to keep

back. He's typically a straight A and B student.

Tanner not only had that extra year developmentally to grow so his

motor planning and speech was much improved -that year did make a

difference, but Tanner is also always the well behaved mature child

in the class. He is friends with everyone -including the teacher.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

How old is your daughter now? You may have another option you have

not thought of yet -waiting one more year to start and having her

preschool program paid for by your school district for one more

year -it's what we did -and in the long run we are saving them money

because Tanner, in spite of the fact his speech is still not

perfect, is now mainstreamed and doing great. There is much on this

in the archives -as well as your question about learning to read

(Tanner who is apraxic was one of the top students in his

kindergarten class -and loves reading simple books like Dr. Seuss

etc. -and with the Cat In the Hat movie coming out now!!)

In general -I feel strongly about putting your child into the least

restrictive environment -even if a " special " Kindergarten is

available. As I said to Tanner's IEP team -we are talking about

kindergarten here -not a rocket science class -if a child isn't

given a chance to make it in a mainstream Kindergarten -than what

grade do you propose is best to start them in the mainstream?!

Speech ability is no indication of intelligence -schools for the

deaf are aware of this. I so love and miss Kanter who was the

Executive Director of, and the life behind -the Summit Speech

School - who passed away the other day of cancer.

I don't know how I'll ever be able to think of the Summit Speech

School without thinking of , in awe of her -and can not

imagine that school without that amazing lady running it. No wonder

members here are having trouble getting their hearing apraxic

children into that school today - apparently wasn't there to

help bring our children a voice anymore -she was too sick.

Please quote her to whoever tells you that your child isn't able to

attend this school (or one like it) if they are not deaf -her

message should carry on even though she is no longer with us. " Our

hope and our goal is to mainstream these children into their local

kindergartens " Kanter -Executive Director Summit Speech

School. " children with apraxia appear to benefit from the same

therapies as their hearing impaired peers "

http://www.cherab.org/news/insideedition.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And the archives are funny to read -here is one where I say I didn't

believe Tanner will still be " top in the class " due to the type of

school:

I would strongly advise to do the extra year of preschool and start

your child at 6 in all day mainstream kindergarten unless you are

positive that he is ready now. And when ready I would try to have

him start out right in the mainstream all day. In Dakota's

kindergarten class the children that were integrated in from the

contained class did come in -but it's not the same as just having

them be in the one class all day.

The public school talked about starting Tanner in a self contained

class for kindergarten while his private school therapists and

teachers as well as Glenn and I and his doctors pushed for

mainstream. My point was -if he can't make it in kindergarten " it's

not rocket science class " -what age do you suggest starting them in

the mainstream?

Once they start kindergarten -you will not want to hold them back

either -they make friends. I found the other children to be a great

inspiration and help to both my boys Dakota and Tanner.

I can tell you that in Tanner's case it ends up the old public

school was wrong and his parents, MDs and regular therapists and

teachers knew best. (is that a shock to anyone?) My thought was and

still is give the kid a chance to prove he can do it. Speech

problems do not have to be an indication of academic ability.

Tanner started mainstream kindergarten at 6 -and he was one of the

top in his class -which is the best feeling in the world. Tanner

will this year however be entering first grade in a private

accelerated academics school with children that were fluent readers

and writers since kindergarten -so well advanced of the public

school expectations -so Tanner will no longer be top in the class.

I believe Tanner will push to keep up and succeed -that's the way he

is. I we will help him too. (we have a tutor for him already) Why

the push? The more ignorance I learn about speech and language

disorders the more I believe that the sooner Tanner learns to write

and type his complex thoughts that he can't yet express -the

better. There is still such negative opinion overall of those who

don't speak well -and very little in the way of appropriate IQ

testing for the older school age children.

And may want to quote this:

" Studies of non-poverty children in different types of preschool are

simply not definitive, but suggestive. One study by Hirsh Pasek and

Cone compared the children who had attended an academic preschool

with those who had attended a developmentally appropriate program.

Although there were no academic differences between the groups, the

children attending the academic program were more anxious and had

lower self esteem. These result attentuated after the children began

to attend public school. An older study, was carried out by Carelton

Washburn, the famed ton Illinois educator. He had different

classes of children introduced to reading at different grade levels

from kindergarten to second grade.

The children who were introduced to reading at these three levels

were then retested when they were in junior high school.

They were assessed by raters who did not know at what grade level

reading instruction had commenced. What Washburn found was there was

little difference between the level of reading achievement among the

groups. The children who had been introduced to reading late,

however, were more motivated and spontaneous readers than those who

had begun early. Similar findings were reported in the Plowden

Report in England which compared children from the informal schools

of rural areas with children who attended the more formal schools of

urban centers. "

http://www.educationnext.org/unabridged/20012/elkind.html

Happy Holidays!

> Dear

>

> In one of your mail I read that its better to delay

> kindergarten until age of 6 for an apraxic child, who is develop.

> delayed in other areas also (thats what I understood from that

mail).

>

> My son who will be 4 next month and is not talking and is develop.

> delayed in all areas ( born very premature at 23wks of gestation

and

> his neurodevelop. is following him very closely for PDD, has very

> few traits of mild PDD). Based on his current progress, I don't

> think he will be ready for kindergarten next year. I know its

early,

> but I want to know if I delay his admission in kindergarten next

> yr, what he will do during that year besides getting therapies

> privately, one biggest disadvantage I see is that he will lose the

> services through the school(rightnow in sp. preschool in Edison,

NJ,

> he is getting Speech 2xwk individually and OT,PT 1xwk). Please

give

> me suggestions to plan his entrance in Kindergarten.

>

> Just to let you know that this group has given a new meanning to

my

> life, it has changed my life,its very helpful and thanks a lot for

> your hard work and all the wonderful members of this site,

>

> Archana

Getting Ready for Kindergarten

Is kindergarten right around the corner? Here are some things to

think

about as the school year approaches.

What immunizations will my child need?

Before children can start kindergarten most states require a physical

examination by a doctor or other health care provider. They also

need to

have all immunizations up-to-date. Be sure to start early so they're

ready for that first day. If you're not sure what immunizations your

children need, talk to their doctor, your local health department.

What will the teacher expect my child to be able to do?

A child entering kindergarten is usually able to walk, run, and

climb.

She should be able to hold and use a pencil, crayons, and scissors.

She should talk well enough for others to understand what she is

saying

and know that words can be written as well as spoken. Help her see

and

hear how objects and sounds may be alike or different.

What group skills does my child need?

Does your child get along with other children and adults? In

kindergarten he'll need to be able to work alone and with others. He

can be

an

" old hand " at these skills if you work with him on

listening to a story in a group;

following rules;

remembering and carrying out two or three directions;

taking turns, respecting others' property, and sharing;

taking care of his own things, such as his coat;

going to the toilet and washing his hands; and

finishing his work.

What kinds of knowledge and experience help prepare my child?

Help her learn about the world around her. Take her on interesting

trips-to the library or grocery store, on a bus ride, or to a museum

or

park-and talk with her about what she sees. Encourage her curiosity,

and

help her find answers to her questions.

Teach her the names of colors and shapes.

Make sure she knows her full name and how to get to school and back.

What will my local school expect of my child?

Find out by taking advantage of any early kindergarten screening or

school visits your school may offer. Call the school office and ask

if

there is information on what is expected of students and parents.

What if my child needs special help to be ready for kindergarten?

Call your local school district office to find out about preschool

screening or services for children who have special needs.

Reprinted with permission from the Illinois Early Learning Project

=====

[Guest guest]

I am a member of this group, but I still have yet to hear of exactly

how you get your child to use his mouth. My 2.5year son blew sound into

a harmonica for the first time last night. We were elated.

there are still a

> lot of exercises you can do with your son to make him more familiar

> with how his mouth works, and such. I'm sure you're already aware (as

> you're a member of this group), but I thought I'd throw that out

> there, just in case.

[Guest guest]

I am a member of this group, but I still have yet to hear of exactly

how you get your child to use his mouth. My 2.5year son blew sound into

a harmonica for the first time last night. We were elated.

there are still a

> lot of exercises you can do with your son to make him more familiar

> with how his mouth works, and such. I'm sure you're already aware (as

> you're a member of this group), but I thought I'd throw that out

> there, just in case.

[Guest guest]

If your son will be in a public school environment then I think you

need to make frequent appearances. At the beginning of the year you

need to talk with the teacher and tell her about your son. I think

if you show a willingness to work with her she may be willing to

work with your son more or to help you find solutions. (If you are

the one who helps her cut out stuff for class or helps in other ways

she will remember you as the mom she can count on.) If there will be

a substitute then you need to talk to that person too. It doesn't

matter if you feel the person is not approachable; you need to

approcah this person for your son. You are his advocate.

Maybe if you talked with the class about your son that would help.

My homeschooled children play with the children in the waiting room

at therapy because they have been socialized to play with all

children. The children in your son's class are acting their age!

This is a good opportunity to educate them!

Homeschooling for me is a full-time job but I have 4 children.

Children who are homeschooled are socialized. Unless you stay home

and never leave your child will be socialized!

Best wishes,

Debra

>

> Hi.

>

> I'm new to this group, but not new to apraxia. My son was diagnosed

> four years ago. He's six years old, and for three years he was in a

> Developmental Delay program with kids a lot like himself. He just

> started mainstream Kindergarten a few days ago, and I'm concerned.

>

> The diagnosis, the therapy (with all its problems), the

frustration…

> all of that, I managed to handle. But today when I dropped my son

off

> at school, I heard one of his classmates say, " Hey, it's the weird

> one. He can't sit here. " I was expecting stuff like that, as I know

> kids aren't the most sensitive and discreet beings, but I was still

> jolted. I didn't even know what to say. Thankfully, my child

doesn't

> quite recognize what that means (I don't think it even registered

with

> him that the other kid was referring to him). But when I got back

out

> to the car, I just broke down crying.

>

> I'm worried for my son. I don't know if I should leave him in an

> antagonistic setting. I know socialization is important, but I

don't

> want him to be shunned and not have any friends. He's a very

friendly,

> affectionate, loving child, and an openly hostile environment

would be

> difficult for him. He doesn't understand that he's " different " and

he

> doesn't understand why other kids don't play with him. For this

first

> week, he has seemed reluctant to communicate with me about his day

> after school. I don't know if this is just because mainstream

school

> in general is new and a stress, and he needs a wall between that

and

> home, or if it's because he's not happy. He doesn't seem reluctant

to

> go to school, but neither is he terribly enthusiastic.

>

> I don't know what to do, or who to talk to. His regular teacher is

out

> for the first few weeks, and there's a sub in her place—not the

most

> informed of people, and certainly not someone it would be

beneficial

> to talk with about all this. And no one else is in a position to

> observe and know how he's doing.

>

> Anyway, I guess there's really no point to this post. I just felt

the

> need to connect with people that have been through this, or are

going

> through it. I don't have anyone else to talk to. I can't

concentrate

> on anything, and I just keep wanting to go back to the school and

> bring my kiddo home. I don't know how I'll get through the rest of

the

> week, let alone the year. Writing this has been cathartic, so I

> suppose that's something. If anyone has advice on coping, I'm all

> ears. But really, I feel supported just knowing that there are

others

> out there who have gone through, or are facing, similar things. I'm

> glad I found this group. Not that I would wish this on anyone

else's

> kiddo, but I'm glad to know my son and I aren't alone in all this.

> Anyway, thanks for reading.

>

> ~quix

>

[Guest guest]

-

is 3 and just used a kazoo for the first time 2 days ago, so I

know what you mean. She was 2.5 before she could use a straw. Sigh...

Warm regards,

******************

(Rochester, NY)

Mom to , 3.2 years, Verbal Apraxia

& , 1 year

________________________________

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of

Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 2:25 AM

Subject: [ ] Re: School Environment and Coping

I am a member of this group, but I still have yet to hear of exactly

how you get your child to use his mouth. My 2.5year son blew sound into

a harmonica for the first time last night. We were elated.

there are still a

> lot of exercises you can do with your son to make him more familiar

> with how his mouth works, and such. I'm sure you're already aware (as

> you're a member of this group), but I thought I'd throw that out

> there, just in case.

[Guest guest]

If your son will be in a public school environment then I think you

need to make frequent appearances. At the beginning of the year you

need to talk with the teacher and tell her about your son. I think

if you show a willingness to work with her she may be willing to

work with your son more or to help you find solutions. (If you are

the one who helps her cut out stuff for class or helps in other ways

she will remember you as the mom she can count on.) If there will be

a substitute then you need to talk to that person too. It doesn't

matter if you feel the person is not approachable; you need to

approcah this person for your son. You are his advocate.

Maybe if you talked with the class about your son that would help.

My homeschooled children play with the children in the waiting room

at therapy because they have been socialized to play with all

children. The children in your son's class are acting their age!

This is a good opportunity to educate them!

Homeschooling for me is a full-time job but I have 4 children.

Children who are homeschooled are socialized. Unless you stay home

and never leave your child will be socialized!

Best wishes,

Debra

>

> Hi.

>

> I'm new to this group, but not new to apraxia. My son was diagnosed

> four years ago. He's six years old, and for three years he was in a

> Developmental Delay program with kids a lot like himself. He just

> started mainstream Kindergarten a few days ago, and I'm concerned.

>

> The diagnosis, the therapy (with all its problems), the

frustration…

> all of that, I managed to handle. But today when I dropped my son

off

> at school, I heard one of his classmates say, " Hey, it's the weird

> one. He can't sit here. " I was expecting stuff like that, as I know

> kids aren't the most sensitive and discreet beings, but I was still

> jolted. I didn't even know what to say. Thankfully, my child

doesn't

> quite recognize what that means (I don't think it even registered

with

> him that the other kid was referring to him). But when I got back

out

> to the car, I just broke down crying.

>

> I'm worried for my son. I don't know if I should leave him in an

> antagonistic setting. I know socialization is important, but I

don't

> want him to be shunned and not have any friends. He's a very

friendly,

> affectionate, loving child, and an openly hostile environment

would be

> difficult for him. He doesn't understand that he's " different " and

he

> doesn't understand why other kids don't play with him. For this

first

> week, he has seemed reluctant to communicate with me about his day

> after school. I don't know if this is just because mainstream

school

> in general is new and a stress, and he needs a wall between that

and

> home, or if it's because he's not happy. He doesn't seem reluctant

to

> go to school, but neither is he terribly enthusiastic.

>

> I don't know what to do, or who to talk to. His regular teacher is

out

> for the first few weeks, and there's a sub in her place—not the

most

> informed of people, and certainly not someone it would be

beneficial

> to talk with about all this. And no one else is in a position to

> observe and know how he's doing.

>

> Anyway, I guess there's really no point to this post. I just felt

the

> need to connect with people that have been through this, or are

going

> through it. I don't have anyone else to talk to. I can't

concentrate

> on anything, and I just keep wanting to go back to the school and

> bring my kiddo home. I don't know how I'll get through the rest of

the

> week, let alone the year. Writing this has been cathartic, so I

> suppose that's something. If anyone has advice on coping, I'm all

> ears. But really, I feel supported just knowing that there are

others

> out there who have gone through, or are facing, similar things. I'm

> glad I found this group. Not that I would wish this on anyone

else's

> kiddo, but I'm glad to know my son and I aren't alone in all this.

> Anyway, thanks for reading.

>

> ~quix

>

[Guest guest]

-

is 3 and just used a kazoo for the first time 2 days ago, so I

know what you mean. She was 2.5 before she could use a straw. Sigh...

Warm regards,

******************

(Rochester, NY)

Mom to , 3.2 years, Verbal Apraxia

& , 1 year

________________________________

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of

Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 2:25 AM

Subject: [ ] Re: School Environment and Coping

I am a member of this group, but I still have yet to hear of exactly

how you get your child to use his mouth. My 2.5year son blew sound into

a harmonica for the first time last night. We were elated.

there are still a

> lot of exercises you can do with your son to make him more familiar

> with how his mouth works, and such. I'm sure you're already aware (as

> you're a member of this group), but I thought I'd throw that out

> there, just in case.

[Guest guest]

I, too, really want to know what exercises you do to help the child learn to

blow and also to suck through a straw. Please, someone give me some ideas on

this.

Thank you, Suzanne

[childrensapraxiane t] Re: School Environment and Coping

I am a member of this group, but I still have yet to hear of exactly

how you get your child to use his mouth. My 2.5year son blew sound into

a harmonica for the first time last night. We were elated.

there are still a

> lot of exercises you can do with your son to make him more familiar

> with how his mouth works, and such. I'm sure you're already aware (as

> you're a member of this group), but I thought I'd throw that out

> there, just in case.

[Guest guest]

My son's speech therapist has him blow cotton balls across the table with a

straw. She also has him mimic her doing things like sticking his tongue out.

She has one " game " where she gets him to stick his tongue out and she sticks a

cheerio on his tongue. He thinks that is really funny. We got him a cheap

plastic recorder (like a flute) at Walmart for about $5. She thought that was

great. We also got him a harmonic but he hates the noise it makes so that was a

bust... Oh, and she blows lots of bubbles with him.

:-)Tera

" It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without

accepting it " .

RE: [childrensapraxiane t] Re: School Environment and Coping

-

is 3 and just used a kazoo for the first time 2 days ago, so I

know what you mean. She was 2.5 before she could use a straw. Sigh...

Warm regards,

************ ******

(Rochester, NY)

Mom to , 3.2 years, Verbal Apraxia

& , 1 year

[Guest guest]

Suzanne-

The only thing that worked for us in teaching to use a straw was

to get a juice box with a straw, place the straw into her mouth and then

squeeze the juice box so that the juice squirted into her mouth. After

a short while, she seemed to get the reflex to suck on the straw. It

sounds overly simplistic, but it is the only thing that worked. It

didn't work unti she was 2.5, but ... she now uses a straw like a champ.

Warm regards,

******************

(Rochester, NY)

Mom to , 3.2 years, Verbal Apraxia

& , 1 year

________________________________

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of Suzanne Wendel

Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 5:11 PM

Subject: Re: [ ] Re: School Environment and Coping

I, too, really want to know what exercises you do to help the child

learn to blow and also to suck through a straw. Please, someone give me

some ideas on this.

Thank you, Suzanne

RE: [ ] Re: School Environment and Coping

-

is 3 and just used a kazoo for the first time 2 days ago, so I

know what you mean. She was 2.5 before she could use a straw. Sigh...

Warm regards,

************ ******

(Rochester, NY)

Mom to , 3.2 years, Verbal Apraxia

& , 1 year

[Guest guest]

I, too, really want to know what exercises you do to help the child learn to

blow and also to suck through a straw. Please, someone give me some ideas on

this.

Thank you, Suzanne

[childrensapraxiane t] Re: School Environment and Coping

I am a member of this group, but I still have yet to hear of exactly

how you get your child to use his mouth. My 2.5year son blew sound into

a harmonica for the first time last night. We were elated.

there are still a

> lot of exercises you can do with your son to make him more familiar

> with how his mouth works, and such. I'm sure you're already aware (as

> you're a member of this group), but I thought I'd throw that out

> there, just in case.