Re: HELP! Is mood swings a side effect of fish oil?

March 3, 2006

It happens sometimes. To me it's perhaps a sign that the fish oils have

crossed the blood brain barrier. If you can stand this sign you view

as negative a bit longer the fussy stage should end and the signs we

view as positive should emerge. If you can't stand it you can reduce

or stop the oils and observe. But if you stop -you'll never know what

could happen next. If you check the archives for those that stopped -

the " bad " behavior stopped and no accelerated progress either. For

those that stuck it out -the " bad " behavior stopped as well -but then

the child started surging. Is there ever a case where a child is too

wild on EFAs to continue? For those parents who stopped the oils

they'll say that's there is.

Just check the archives -you won't even have to go back a month I'm

sure to find out from those who did stick it out that there is great

light at the end.

And as always -check with your child's MD

(who if he doesn't " believe " in fish oils

won't believe they can cause " mood changes " either!)

Here's an archive on what changes most see. As always any change in

any area is typically a good thing. We just view it as positive or

negative changes but outside of something like an allergic reaction -

there are no negatives to EFAs that I'm aware of. I'm only aware

of the negatives of not having EFAs in the body!

~~~~start of archive

There is much more in the archives both here -as well as more

information at

http://www.cherab.org/information/indexinformation.html#diet

Since I receive lots of calls about this -I wanted to list the most

common changes in an apraxic or other speech disordered child on

EFAs from what I've read and heard and seen.

1. Increase in babbling or attempts at sounds.

2. Increase in imitation.

Changes also can be looked for in (what you see as positive or

negative)

sleep

attention

appetite

focus

behavior

stools

Next will come a breakthrough of something you were probably working

on for a bit -so you will be excited but will think " Well -I don't

want to get my hopes up we were working on that for awhile now -

maybe it's just a coincidence " However after the second or third

surge in a short period of time -and then another - you are pretty

sure things are different and it's at this point the professionals

and the rest of the family and your friends are noticing it too -

maybe about two to three weeks now.

OK -the next stage is pure elation and hope -you see the light and

no longer feel as desperate and want to share this new information

with everyone and anyone. As the months go by and your child

continues to progress at a much more rapid rate -you may even start

to doubt the original diagnosis -especially if you started EFA

supplementation at two -and perhaps the SLP that diagnosed the

apraxia who also was at first excited is starting to second guess if

the original diagnosis was correct as well.

Unless you have to stop the ProEFA (or other Essential Fatty Acids)

and literally have the chance to see the regression of acquired

speech and language skills, attempts, and changes in behavior like

we did with Tanner (and/or have a chance to again witness the second

surge when your child is put back on the EFAs) -that doubt will

probably remain somewhere in your mind and in others around your

child. So the " I told you that he would start talking when he was

ready " comments should be expected of course.

Up to this point is understandable to me -it's the point after this

that is confusing to me, and perhaps not the best stage for our

children and for raising awareness or having research done to find

out what is happening to our children and why. Perhaps because we

have truly hit a paradigm shift...

As Dr. Agin states the EFAs actually appear to be in some

ways " curing " the apraxic child -even those diagnosed with severe

oral and verbal apraxia, hypotonia, sensory and behavioral issues.

Especially those started at younger ages.

The child on ProEFA or some other EFA formula's like it no longer

fits the criteria of the classic definition of apraxia -and yet

doesn't fit the classic perception of what a late talker is either...

Some of the parents become more focused on other everyday activities

with their child and start to drift away from the support sources.

Problem with this attitude is that unless your child is really up to

speed on all aspects of speech and language, the support sources

that helped in the beginning will still benefit your child today.

ProEFA alone is not the only answer and until we know how and why it

works (or why in a handful of children it doesn't) we can't improve

on it "

Know there is lots of information here -but if you have to learn

just one thing from all of this it's right up on top -there is

always hope!

=====

March 4, 2006

Not true, - you know my story. I had my son on proefa for over

a year when his behaviour deteriorated. It took me over 6 mos. of

* & %$ with him to figure out what it was. When we took him off it,

the tantrums and extreme moods stopped. If we had " waited it out " -

for how long, I ask - we would all be in the loonie bin.

Now that I know a little bit about the ADHD meds - specifically,

let's talk about Ritalin - I know that it can cause

extreme " emotional swings " in children. Sometimes it takes a while

for them to start metabolizing it at a rate which will produce this

effect. I suspect that the oils are the same way.

Anyway, each body chemistry is different - but don't do this person

a disservice by telling them:

If you can stand this sign YOU VIEW AS NEGATIVE a bit longer the

fussy stage should end and the signs we

> view as positive should emerge.

because for some of us, it just isn't true. It IS negative. Did it

cause long-standing problems for us? yes. It clearly altered our

relationship with my son because of his extreme mood swings, and the

constant upheaval in the house created a VERY negative environment

for my younger son.

>

> It happens sometimes. To me it's perhaps a sign that the fish

oils have

> crossed the blood brain barrier. If you can stand this sign you

view

> as negative a bit longer the fussy stage should end and the signs

we

> view as positive should emerge. If you can't stand it you can

reduce

> or stop the oils and observe. But if you stop -you'll never know

what

> could happen next. If you check the archives for those that

stopped -

> the " bad " behavior stopped and no accelerated progress either.

For

> those that stuck it out -the " bad " behavior stopped as well -but

then

> the child started surging. Is there ever a case where a child is

too

> wild on EFAs to continue? For those parents who stopped the oils

> they'll say that's there is.

>

> Just check the archives -you won't even have to go back a month

I'm

> sure to find out from those who did stick it out that there is

great

> light at the end.

>

> And as always -check with your child's MD

> (who if he doesn't " believe " in fish oils

> won't believe they can cause " mood changes " either!)

>

> Here's an archive on what changes most see. As always any change

in

> any area is typically a good thing. We just view it as positive

or

> negative changes but outside of something like an allergic

reaction -

> there are no negatives to EFAs that I'm aware of. I'm only aware

> of the negatives of not having EFAs in the body!

>

> ~~~~start of archive

> There is much more in the archives both here -as well as more

> information at

> http://www.cherab.org/information/indexinformation.html#diet

>

> Since I receive lots of calls about this -I wanted to list the most

> common changes in an apraxic or other speech disordered child on

> EFAs from what I've read and heard and seen.

>

> 1. Increase in babbling or attempts at sounds.

> 2. Increase in imitation.

> Changes also can be looked for in (what you see as positive or

> negative)

> sleep

> attention

> appetite

> focus

> behavior

> stools

>

> Next will come a breakthrough of something you were probably

working

> on for a bit -so you will be excited but will think " Well -I don't

> want to get my hopes up we were working on that for awhile now -

> maybe it's just a coincidence " However after the second or third

> surge in a short period of time -and then another - you are pretty

> sure things are different and it's at this point the professionals

> and the rest of the family and your friends are noticing it too -

> maybe about two to three weeks now.

>

> OK -the next stage is pure elation and hope -you see the light and

> no longer feel as desperate and want to share this new information

> with everyone and anyone. As the months go by and your child

> continues to progress at a much more rapid rate -you may even start

> to doubt the original diagnosis -especially if you started EFA

> supplementation at two -and perhaps the SLP that diagnosed the

> apraxia who also was at first excited is starting to second guess

if

> the original diagnosis was correct as well.

>

> Unless you have to stop the ProEFA (or other Essential Fatty Acids)

> and literally have the chance to see the regression of acquired

> speech and language skills, attempts, and changes in behavior like

> we did with Tanner (and/or have a chance to again witness the

second

> surge when your child is put back on the EFAs) -that doubt will

> probably remain somewhere in your mind and in others around your

> child. So the " I told you that he would start talking when he was

> ready " comments should be expected of course.

>

> Up to this point is understandable to me -it's the point after this

> that is confusing to me, and perhaps not the best stage for our

> children and for raising awareness or having research done to find

> out what is happening to our children and why. Perhaps because we

> have truly hit a paradigm shift...

>

> As Dr. Agin states the EFAs actually appear to be in some

> ways " curing " the apraxic child -even those diagnosed with severe

> oral and verbal apraxia, hypotonia, sensory and behavioral issues.

> Especially those started at younger ages.

>

> The child on ProEFA or some other EFA formula's like it no longer

> fits the criteria of the classic definition of apraxia -and yet

> doesn't fit the classic perception of what a late talker is

either...

>

> Some of the parents become more focused on other everyday

activities

> with their child and start to drift away from the support sources.

> Problem with this attitude is that unless your child is really up

to

> speed on all aspects of speech and language, the support sources

> that helped in the beginning will still benefit your child today.

> ProEFA alone is not the only answer and until we know how and why

it

> works (or why in a handful of children it doesn't) we can't improve

> on it "

>

> Know there is lots of information here -but if you have to learn

> just one thing from all of this it's right up on top -there is

> always hope!

>

> =====

>

March 4, 2006

Hi Marina,

There are of course always those people that are put to sleep

by " non drowsy " sleep medications or those babies allergic to

hypoallergenic ( " non-allergy-causing " ) soy infant formulas. I'm

sure those companies get a handful of complaint letters that have

examples outside the norm. I and nobody on the internet can explain

why your child had positive surges on EFAs for a year and then after

he was talking suddenly he had mood changes on them. Perhaps his

body no longer needed them? One can only speculate especially when

as long as we ran this group your example is the only one like this

to date.

All we can do here is let everyone share, encourage parents to join

local support groups so they can verify what I'm saying which is

what works for the majority. And...if you have a child who gets

sleepy on non-drowsy cold medications -then do the obvious -don't

let him drive your car or operate heavy machinery -but the cold

medicine is still going to be called " non-drowsy " because that's

what it is for just about everyone else in the world.

One of us could archive your messages and there may be a clue in

doing that. Have you checked?

=====

March 4, 2006

My 2.5 year old definitely seems more cranky than he used to be and I've

heard other people report this. But in exchange we've gotten speech. If it

gets too bad and you are not seeing increased babbling, repeating words ie

improvement...you should stop it and see if the behaviour goes away. If you

are seeing improvement in speech, you need to weigh one against the other.

For us its worth a little crankiness in exchange - but if it were over the

top, it might not be worth it. Its so hard to tell, because this is the age

that you start to see this sort of behavior anyway - thus the " terrible

twos " - which really is the terrible threes for some kids, as they exert

their attempt at some independence from mom. -

[ ] HELP! Is mood swings a side effect of

fish oil?

My 2.7 year old apraxic daughter has been on Omega 3 fish oil for

about 2 weeks. Since that time, she has been extremely fussy and

constantly crying for reasons unknown. I brought her to see her

pediatrician to make sure that there was nothing physically wrong with

her and she was given a clean bill of health. I am wondering if the

fish oil has anything to do with her mood swings. If anyone can give

me their opinion or some advice on how to deal with this I would

really appreciate it. I am about to pull all of my hair out of my

head!!!!

March 4, 2006

Hi ,

I just want to know if we are talking about mood swings in the case

of terrible twos or mood swings in the case of bipolar? Here

are some links.

" Mood Changes - Yes, you will experience both ends of the emotional

spectrum at this age. Your toddler is developing emotional balance

and this takes time. Sharp mood swings are inevitable. "

http://www.robynsnest.com/tertwos.htm

" Although you have probably heard of the " terrible twos, " there are,

in fact, only intermittent periods of difficulty. The interval

between 18 and 21 months often brings temper tantrums and defiance,

but these behaviors usually subside by the second birthday. Then,

starting at roughly 2 1/2, your child may enter a period of

extremes. Some days, she'll be sunny and helpful. At other times,

temper tantrums, whining, and defiance will prevail. The situation

usually worsens with fatigue or a change in your child's daily or

nightly routine.

What's behind these dramatic mood swings? Most outbursts result from

sheer frustration. "

http://www.childcarecenters.org/Providers/news/Oct_2002/featured_article.htm

Or you can buy the book " The Best Friends' Guide to Toddlers: A

Survival Manual to the 'Terrible Twos' (and Ones and Threes) from

the First Step, the First Potty and the First Word ('No') to the

Last Blanket "

And if one does believe that the behavior is outside of normal

here's some great advice:

" Normal or Not?

Since emotional and behavioral issues vary with each child, it can

be difficult to know whether your kid's frequent tantrums, severe

shyness, or rough play warrants special attention. More often than

not, these feelings and behaviors are a normal part of development.

You should certainly discuss any sudden, dramatic changes in your

child's appetite, sleep habits, and activity level with your

pediatrician. He can check for a physical cause, such as an illness

or allergy.

Mood swings or behavior changes are also common during times of

stress. "

http://www.parents.com/parents/story.jhtml?storyid=/templatedata/parents/story/d\

ata/5223.xml & catref=prt24

But in the majority of cases most here don't have children that

would qualify as being diagnosed with bipolar while on EFAs.

'Bipolar mood disorder, also known as manic-depressive psychosis

(MDP), is a type of mood disorder characterized by mood swings. "

http://www.cgh.com.sg/health_public/pamphlet/psymed/bipolar/bmd_main.html

And as this one recent article says -we do have members here who

have children that are bipolar.

" For now, though, he suggested that parents who see any possible

symptoms of bipolar disorder have their children evaluated.

" If a parent sees a kid who has a lot of mood swings, irritability,

elation - it's like a roller coaster - they should take the kid for

assessment, " he said. " Some parents think this is normal

development - 'Oh, he's a teenager, it will pass.' But it doesn't

always pass.

" Not every single kid who has mood swings is bipolar. But you

shouldn't rule it out, because sometimes, clinicians don't think of

this, and the kids will be misdiagnosed. "

http://www.mydna.com/health/mental/bipolar/news/news_20060302_bipolar_children_t\

eens.html

But that isn't what you see is it ? Bipolar behavior?!

I know that you are using and started with a bit higher dosage than

most using what is equivalent to 4-6 capsules of regular ProEFA a

day? If it even bothered you have the luxury to play with the

formula or dosage a bit if you even wanted to, to see if using a

teeny bit less for example took that crankiness away without

effecting your child's new abilities in speech and motor planning.

There has been a few over the years who reported their child was too

hyper on EFAs, but in the archives you'll find some either just

ignored it and it stopped after a week or so and speech suddenly

started. Some didn't ignore it, instead reduced to 1/2 a capsule and

gradually increased and that worked. Some changed from evening to

morning and that worked. And some just stopped and said they were

not worth the new terrible twos behaviors. Those who stop like

Marina insist the behavior is beyond normal and use words like

bouncing off the walls. I guess I would not be a great judge then

of what I can deal with because Dakota used to act like that prior

to EFAs...and even then never looked at it like something that

wasn't normal. Guess when you grow up with an ADHD brother...But

while EFAs made Dakota calm who was hyper prior (not cranky -just

hyper bouncing off the walls literally) it made Tanner who was

lethargic and who moved very slowly into a child that suddenly had

life in him. More work? Yes. And I was THRILLED! I have compared

EFAs to the shampoo Finesse because while it calmed the one who

needed to be calmed it gave the one who was lethargic some energy

and speed. How cool.

Marina's story of EFAs being a good thing for about a year and then

suddenly causing behavior changes after the child is talking is

unique. I would have stopped too if I was her especially if my

child was talking fine with or without them at that point. Most

apraxic children however are not to the point of not needing EFAs

anymore after one year. Wish that wasn't the case but it is.

One topic about EFAs that is quite common however is this: How do

we as parents of an essentially non-verbal child deal with a child's

sudden ability to talk...and some of the first words being things

you don't want to hear, like curse words! This I went through too,

and I too was guilty of being thrilled (at first) to

hear 'anything'

Below is a classic message from Suzanne who is now in medical school

to become a neuroMD...because of what she saw in her child once on

EFAs. She is committed to research on EFAs to find out why. Not

why her child started to become sassy at times -but why EFAs made

her child one who couldn't talk (at 5) to one who is what most would

refer to as normal. Outside of this the best quote from Suzanne

when some wondered outloud on this group about " side effects " which

again are not documented anywhere is " to me not talking was

the worst side effect my child could have "

So I guess we need to each clarify when we say " behavior " what we

mean by mood swings. Normal or not? Sassiness or psychotic?

From: Suzanne Smolyar

Date: Wed Mar 21, 2001 2:36 pm

Subject: RE: [ ] progress

Hi Gloria,

I wanted to say that I know exactly how you feel. Last night at the

table, 's brother (Ari 6.8) began to speak while was

trying to say something, so she looked at Ari and said in a loud and

affirmative tone " Shut up Ari, Shut up " . We were so excited and

overjoyed at her using that phrase - we forgot to explain to her

that it was inappropriate to use at the table and to her family

members. We just thought it was golden -just like you did.

Here is some background from one of my previous posts that will tell

you why this is so exciting .

" I am a mother of a beautiful 5-year-old girl, . Since the

time she was about 11 mo old - I had a feeling that something was

wrong with fine motor, gross motor and of course speech. Through

the past 4 years, I have gone to numerous neurologists, best in the

field, I must add. We have gone non-stop to therapy with ,

but the progress was painfully slow. did not speak- making

it nearly impossible for us to communicate with her. Everyday at

night I would kiss , and standing over her head I would

say, " please start talking tomorrow " - subliminal messages - hoping

they'd work.

To no avail, my child was just not talking. Therapy helped, but

progress was limited. I don't want to continue with this sob-story,

as you probably all understand the fear and frustration in parents

and the child as well.

After becoming involved with

March 4, 2006

Hi , I just wanted to say thank you to all who responded. I am

wondering if there is a certain brand of fish oil that I should be

using. Right now, we are using the Omega 3 fish oil capsules

purchased at Sams and I am wondering if that has anything to do with

the mood swings? I definitely don't want to stop using it if it will

help her to talk. Right now she is only getting 1-1,000mg

capsule/day. She will be 3 years old in July and only weighs 24

pounds. Could you tell me what dosage you think I should be giving her?

>

> My 2.7 year old apraxic daughter has been on Omega 3 fish oil for

> about 2 weeks. Since that time, she has been extremely fussy and

> constantly crying for reasons unknown. I brought her to see her

> pediatrician to make sure that there was nothing physically wrong with

> her and she was given a clean bill of health. I am wondering if the

> fish oil has anything to do with her mood swings. If anyone can give

> me their opinion or some advice on how to deal with this I would

> really appreciate it. I am about to pull all of my hair out of my

> head!!!!

>

March 4, 2006

Can you post here exactly the dosage on the bottle of DHA, EPA, GLA

etc? Let us know if the dosage is per one capsule or two. Not that

one formula causes mood swings while another doesn't -but just to

make sure you are using a formula we know as a group works for the

majority here. All that matters with fish oil is formula, dosage,

and quality of the oils.

Is it an Omega 3/6 formula or a pure Omega 3 that you are using? If

you don't know- please also post the ingrediants too.

Here's a clinical study from Psychiatric Times on fish oils and

bipolar. (Since I brought up bipolar on my last message)

http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/p991211.html

=====

March 5, 2006

>

> Can you post here exactly the dosage on the bottle of DHA, EPA, GLA

> etc? Let us know if the dosage is per one capsule or two. Not that

> one formula causes mood swings while another doesn't -but just to

> make sure you are using a formula we know as a group works for the

> majority here. All that matters with fish oil is formula, dosage,

> and quality of the oils.

>

> Is it an Omega 3/6 formula or a pure Omega 3 that you are using? If

> you don't know- please also post the ingrediants too.

>

> Here's a clinical study from Psychiatric Times on fish oils and

> bipolar. (Since I brought up bipolar on my last message)

> http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/p991211.html

>

> =====

>

March 6, 2006

Sorry i don't have any advice but i also noticed the same thing with my son and

i got scared and stopped giving it to him.

[ ] HELP! Is mood swings a side effect of fish oil?