Careflite propagand via the Star Telegram

October 21, 2007

Things this article conveniently forgets to mention:

The Vice President of Operations of Methodist Hospital, an RN, sits on

the board at DFW Airport.

Methodist sponsors Careflite, a non profit organization, as stated in

the article.

That Careflite ground has attempted to take over several county operated EMS

services. He who has the ground, will also have the air.

I don't recall any statistics from County in the article as well.

No mention of why PHI is preferred over Careflite. Continuum of care, less

arragont crews that don't sit on the ground forever and trash our ambulances.

http://www.star-telegram.com/news/story/275326.html

__________________________________________________

October 21, 2007

Sit down, Dudley, because we're going to agree again.

There's another interesting aspect I'm seeing here in AZ. People are

calling the helo because the ground EMS services are so bad.

Arizona is a " certificate of need " state, and a new certificate is almost

impossible to get. Rural/Metro has the private areas sewed up and it is very,

very powerful in the Legislature.

I have had several medics from this area tell me that If I'm in a wreck or

get bad sick, demand a helo and get enroute to Phoenix or El Paso post haste.

Sucks, doesn't it? AZ is 30 years behind Texas in MOST places. There are

a few bright spots I have found, like Sierra Vista, but the bright spots are

few and far between.

GG

>

> There was a 2nd article in the Star Telegram today too:

>

> http://www.star-http://wwhttp://www.stahttp://www.

>

> Interesting in both of these articles...no one cited a detrimental outcome

> to any patients.? Since most air medical programs fly many many patients who

> do not need to be flown, it is probably hard to find where a patient was

> actually harmed by?any of this.?

>

> The fact of the matter is, this is happening all over the state.? Like

> someone I know says...you could walk from Dallas to San on rotor

> blades...it is getting ridiculous.? And besides patients getting harmed

(accidents,

> huge bills, huge trauma center bills when they could have been seen at the

> local ED, etc) now we are seeing EMS agencies starting to get harmed.? EMS

> agencies who are being taken advantage of, lobbied, and wined and dined are

making

> decisions based upon this or some other faulty things and because one

> helicopter program got the call over the other...we are now contacting the

media and

> getting these ground services slammed in the media and having their decision

> making questioned publicly.

>

> Here is the deal, we have allowed a system to develop where the only thing

> to do with trauma patients is put them on a helicopter.. Here is the deal, we

> have allowed a system to develop where the only thing to do with trauma

> patients is put them on a helicopter...we never got any negative feedback

> from our flight services because they certainly don't want us to call anyone

> else to take our patients...at the same time,?they bring pizza, pies, " lz

> classes " complete with free Here is the deal, we have allowed a system to

develop

> where the only thing to do with trauma patients is put them on a helicopter..<

> wbr>.we never got any negative feedback from our fl

>

> My question is do the other flight services (not just CareFlight.. My

> question is do the other flight services (not just CareFlight...there is

at

> least one other besides them and PHI) refuse calls or turf them to closer

> flight services when they are not the closest helicopter?? Does their medical

> directors only direct the helicopter program?? No they don't.? This is going

on

> all over the state (and nation).? The truly sad part is that these flight

> services are now willing to throw the very customers that they?need to?call

them

> to survive, under the bus because one service or another has an upper hand in

> a certain area or region...knowing that the ground EMS service will just

> take it on the chin...because My question is do the other flight services (not

> jus

>

> We need a change.? We need federal law changes so that the antiquated

> airline deregulation laws that apply to air medical services (for some stupid

> reason)?can be changed so that states can regulate air medical services both

on

> operations and safety factors.? Then the State of Texas needs to develop a

> state-wide helicopter plan, dividing the state into regions, dictate who can

> operate in each region, and put performance criteria on these agencies so that

> they have to perform in these regions....and stop this flights at all cost

> mentality that is currently growing and growing across this state.?

>

> " They weren't the closest " ; " You can't land on this helipad " ; " You have to

> use our helicopter if we take your patient " ; " Let me sell MY subscription plan

> here even though we don't fly here " ; " Call us whenever for whatever, we

> don't mind " ....this has to stop...it is getting out of hand...and if you think

> " our flight service doesn't do this kind of thing " you are probably wrong.?

>

> Ground EMS folks beware...if it hasn't happened to you...it is coming...get

> your house in order...the next call from a newspaper may be to you asking why

> you did or did not utilize helicopter A (or C or D).

>

> Dudley

>

> Careflite propagand via the Star Telegram

>

> Things this article conveniently forgets to mention:

>

> The Vice President of Operations of Methodist Hospital, an RN, sits

> on the board at DFW Airport.

>

> Methodist sponsors Careflite, a non profit organization, as stated in

> the article.

>

> That Careflite ground has attempted to take over several county operated EMS

> services. He who has the ground, will also have the air.

>

> I don't recall any statistics from County in the article as well.

>

> No mention of why PHI is preferred over Careflite. Continuum of care, less

> arragont crews that don't sit on the ground forever and trash our ambulances.

>

> http://www.star-http://wwhttp://wwhttp://www.sthttp

>

> ____________ ________ ________ ________ ________ _

>

October 21, 2007

There was a 2nd article in the Star Telegram today too:

http://www.star-telegram.com/226/story/275328.html

Interesting in both of these articles...no one cited a detrimental outcome to

any patients.? Since most air medical programs fly many many patients who do not

need to be flown, it is probably hard to find where a patient was actually

harmed by?any of this.?

The fact of the matter is, this is happening all over the state.? Like someone I

know says...you could walk from Dallas to San on rotor blades...it is

getting ridiculous.? And besides patients getting harmed (accidents, huge bills,

huge trauma center bills when they could have been seen at the local ED, etc)

now we are seeing EMS agencies starting to get harmed.? EMS agencies who are

being taken advantage of, lobbied, and wined and dined are making decisions

based upon this or some other faulty things and because one helicopter program

got the call over the other...we are now contacting the media and getting these

ground services slammed in the media and having their decision making questioned

publicly.

Here is the deal, we have allowed a system to develop where the only thing to do

with trauma patients is put them on a helicopter...we never got any negative

feedback from our flight services because they certainly don't want us to call

anyone else to take our patients...at the same time,?they bring pizza, pies, " lz

classes " complete with free helicopter rides, hire medical directors of the

ground services, and even hire the ground service paramedics to work on the

helicopters....then when?they don't get called like?they think we should,?they

are now going to the media and talking about how bad it is for " patient care "

that an agency would do such a thing.?

My question is do the other flight services (not just CareFlight...there is at

least one other besides them and PHI) refuse calls or turf them to closer flight

services when they are not the closest helicopter?? Does their medical directors

only direct the helicopter program?? No they don't.? This is going on all over

the state (and nation).? The truly sad part is that these flight services are

now willing to throw the very customers that they?need to?call them to survive,

under the bus because one service or another has an upper hand in a certain area

or region...knowing that the ground EMS service will just take it on the

chin...because they system they have promulgated has no other plan than a

helicopter...often the very one that just kicked it in the teeth.

We need a change.? We need federal law changes so that the antiquated airline

deregulation laws that apply to air medical services (for some stupid

reason)?can be changed so that states can regulate air medical services both on

operations and safety factors.? Then the State of Texas needs to develop a

state-wide helicopter plan, dividing the state into regions, dictate who can

operate in each region, and put performance criteria on these agencies so that

they have to perform in these regions....and stop this flights at all cost

mentality that is currently growing and growing across this state.?

" They weren't the closest " ; " You can't land on this helipad " ; " You have to use

our helicopter if we take your patient " ; " Let me sell MY subscription plan here

even though we don't fly here " ; " Call us whenever for whatever, we don't

mind " ....this has to stop...it is getting out of hand...and if you think " our

flight service doesn't do this kind of thing " you are probably wrong.?

Ground EMS folks beware...if it hasn't happened to you...it is coming...get your

house in order...the next call from a newspaper may be to you asking why you did

or did not utilize helicopter A (or C or D).

Dudley

Careflite propagand via the Star Telegram

Things this article conveniently forgets to mention:

The Vice President of Operations of Methodist Hospital, an RN, sits on

the board at DFW Airport.

Methodist sponsors Careflite, a non profit organization, as stated in the

article.

That Careflite ground has attempted to take over several county operated EMS

services. He who has the ground, will also have the air.

I don't recall any statistics from County in the article as well.

No mention of why PHI is preferred over Careflite. Continuum of care, less

arragont crews that don't sit on the ground forever and trash our ambulances.

http://www.star-telegram.com/news/story/275326.html

__________________________________________________

October 22, 2007

Could someone clarify if what I was told is true?

I was told that CareFlite was designated by the RAC to be the facilitator of

Airtransport managment (for lack of a better term) in the region. So if we call

them for a helo in Balch Springs and Methodist Helo is on a flight and the next

closest is lets say Denton, they are supposed to contact another closer provider

(PHI-Mckinney or LifeStar- Greenville). Is this True? I will hold my comments

until I can get an answer.....

Oh and is it good practice to give an immediate general eta for the helo to a

ground provider who is calling so ground crews can make a decision on load and

go or wait for the bird?

Chris

wegandy1938@... wrote:

Sit down, Dudley, because we're going to agree again.

There's another interesting aspect I'm seeing here in AZ. People are

calling the helo because the ground EMS services are so bad.

Arizona is a " certificate of need " state, and a new certificate is almost

impossible to get. Rural/Metro has the private areas sewed up and it is very,

very powerful in the Legislature.

I have had several medics from this area tell me that If I'm in a wreck or

get bad sick, demand a helo and get enroute to Phoenix or El Paso post haste.

Sucks, doesn't it? AZ is 30 years behind Texas in MOST places. There are

a few bright spots I have found, like Sierra Vista, but the bright spots are

few and far between.

GG

>

> There was a 2nd article in the Star Telegram today too:

>

> http://www.star-http://wwhttp://www.stahttp://www.

>

> Interesting in both of these articles...no one cited a detrimental outcome

> to any patients.? Since most air medical programs fly many many patients who

> do not need to be flown, it is probably hard to find where a patient was

> actually harmed by?any of this.?

>

> The fact of the matter is, this is happening all over the state.? Like

> someone I know says...you could walk from Dallas to San on rotor

> blades...it is getting ridiculous.? And besides patients getting harmed

(accidents,

> huge bills, huge trauma center bills when they could have been seen at the

> local ED, etc) now we are seeing EMS agencies starting to get harmed.? EMS

> agencies who are being taken advantage of, lobbied, and wined and dined are

making

> decisions based upon this or some other faulty things and because one

> helicopter program got the call over the other...we are now contacting the

media and

> getting these ground services slammed in the media and having their decision

> making questioned publicly.

>

> Here is the deal, we have allowed a system to develop where the only thing

> to do with trauma patients is put them on a helicopter.. Here is the deal, we

> have allowed a system to develop where the only thing to do with trauma

> patients is put them on a helicopter...we never got any negative feedback

> from our flight services because they certainly don't want us to call anyone

> else to take our patients...at the same time,?they bring pizza, pies, " lz

> classes " complete with free Here is the deal, we have allowed a system to

develop

> where the only thing to do with trauma patients is put them on a helicopter..<

> wbr>.we never got any negative feedback from our fl

>

> My question is do the other flight services (not just CareFlight.. My

> question is do the other flight services (not just CareFlight...there is

at

> least one other besides them and PHI) refuse calls or turf them to closer

> flight services when they are not the closest helicopter?? Does their medical

> directors only direct the helicopter program?? No they don't.? This is going

on

> all over the state (and nation).? The truly sad part is that these flight

> services are now willing to throw the very customers that they?need to?call

them

> to survive, under the bus because one service or another has an upper hand in

> a certain area or region...knowing that the ground EMS service will just

> take it on the chin...because My question is do the other flight services (not

> jus

>

> We need a change.? We need federal law changes so that the antiquated

> airline deregulation laws that apply to air medical services (for some stupid

> reason)?can be changed so that states can regulate air medical services both

on

> operations and safety factors.? Then the State of Texas needs to develop a

> state-wide helicopter plan, dividing the state into regions, dictate who can

> operate in each region, and put performance criteria on these agencies so that

> they have to perform in these regions....and stop this flights at all cost

> mentality that is currently growing and growing across this state.?

>

> " They weren't the closest " ; " You can't land on this helipad " ; " You have to

> use our helicopter if we take your patient " ; " Let me sell MY subscription plan

> here even though we don't fly here " ; " Call us whenever for whatever, we

> don't mind " ....this has to stop...it is getting out of hand...and if you think

> " our flight service doesn't do this kind of thing " you are probably wrong.?

>

> Ground EMS folks beware...if it hasn't happened to you...it is coming...get

> your house in order...the next call from a newspaper may be to you asking why

> you did or did not utilize helicopter A (or C or D).

>

> Dudley

>

> Careflite propagand via the Star Telegram

>

> Things this article conveniently forgets to mention:

>

> The Vice President of Operations of Methodist Hospital, an RN, sits

> on the board at DFW Airport.

>

> Methodist sponsors Careflite, a non profit organization, as stated in

> the article.

>

> That Careflite ground has attempted to take over several county operated EMS

> services. He who has the ground, will also have the air.

>

> I don't recall any statistics from County in the article as well.

>

> No mention of why PHI is preferred over Careflite. Continuum of care, less

> arragont crews that don't sit on the ground forever and trash our ambulances.

>

> http://www.star-http://wwhttp://wwhttp://www.sthttp

>

> ____________ ________ ________ ________ ________ _

>

October 22, 2007

Yes Chris. This was done years ago by the RAC.

________________________________

From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On

Behalf Of Weinzapfel

Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 11:39 AM

To: texasems-l

Subject: Re: Careflite propagand via the Star Telegram

Could someone clarify if what I was told is true?

I was told that CareFlite was designated by the RAC to be the

facilitator of Airtransport managment (for lack of a better term) in the

region. So if we call them for a helo in Balch Springs and Methodist

Helo is on a flight and the next closest is lets say Denton, they are

supposed to contact another closer provider (PHI-Mckinney or LifeStar-

Greenville). Is this True? I will hold my comments until I can get an

answer.....

Oh and is it good practice to give an immediate general eta for the helo

to a ground provider who is calling so ground crews can make a decision

on load and go or wait for the bird?

Chris

wegandy1938@... <mailto:wegandy1938%40aol.com> wrote:

Sit down, Dudley, because we're going to agree again.

There's another interesting aspect I'm seeing here in AZ. People are

calling the helo because the ground EMS services are so bad.

Arizona is a " certificate of need " state, and a new certificate is

almost

impossible to get. Rural/Metro has the private areas sewed up and it is

very,

very powerful in the Legislature.

I have had several medics from this area tell me that If I'm in a wreck

or

get bad sick, demand a helo and get enroute to Phoenix or El Paso post

haste.

Sucks, doesn't it? AZ is 30 years behind Texas in MOST places. There are

a few bright spots I have found, like Sierra Vista, but the bright spots

are

few and far between.

GG

In a message dated 10/21/07 3:46:02 PM, THEDUDMAN@...

<mailto:THEDUDMAN%40aol.com> writes:

>

> There was a 2nd article in the Star Telegram today too:

>

> http://www.star-http://wwhttp://www.stahttp://www.

<http://www.star-http://wwhttp://www.stahttp://www.>

>

> Interesting in both of these articles...no one cited a detrimental

outcome

> to any patients.? Since most air medical programs fly many many

patients who

> do not need to be flown, it is probably hard to find where a patient

was

> actually harmed by?any of this.?

>

> The fact of the matter is, this is happening all over the state.? Like

> someone I know says...you could walk from Dallas to San on

rotor

> blades...it is getting ridiculous.? And besides patients getting

harmed (accidents,

> huge bills, huge trauma center bills when they could have been seen at

the

> local ED, etc) now we are seeing EMS agencies starting to get harmed.?

EMS

> agencies who are being taken advantage of, lobbied, and wined and

dined are making

> decisions based upon this or some other faulty things and because one

> helicopter program got the call over the other...we are now contacting

the media and

> getting these ground services slammed in the media and having their

decision

> making questioned publicly.

>

> Here is the deal, we have allowed a system to develop where the only

thing

> to do with trauma patients is put them on a helicopter.. Here is the

deal, we

> have allowed a system to develop where the only thing to do with

trauma

> patients is put them on a helicopter...we never got any negative

feedback

> from our flight services because they certainly don't want us to call

anyone

> else to take our patients...at the same time,?they bring pizza, pies,

" lz

> classes " complete with free Here is the deal, we have allowed a system

to develop

> where the only thing to do with trauma patients is put them on a

helicopter..<

> wbr>.we never got any negative feedback from our fl

>

> My question is do the other flight services (not just CareFlight.. My

> question is do the other flight services (not just

CareFlight...there is at

> least one other besides them and PHI) refuse calls or turf them to

closer

> flight services when they are not the closest helicopter?? Does their

medical

> directors only direct the helicopter program?? No they don't.? This is

going on

> all over the state (and nation).? The truly sad part is that these

flight

> services are now willing to throw the very customers that they?need

to?call them

> to survive, under the bus because one service or another has an upper

hand in

> a certain area or region...knowing that the ground EMS service will

just

> take it on the chin...because My question is do the other flight

services (not

> jus

>

> We need a change.? We need federal law changes so that the antiquated

> airline deregulation laws that apply to air medical services (for some

stupid

> reason)?can be changed so that states can regulate air medical

services both on

> operations and safety factors.? Then the State of Texas needs to

develop a

> state-wide helicopter plan, dividing the state into regions, dictate

who can

> operate in each region, and put performance criteria on these agencies

so that

> they have to perform in these regions....and stop this flights at all

cost

> mentality that is currently growing and growing across this state.?

>

> " They weren't the closest " ; " You can't land on this helipad " ; " You

have to

> use our helicopter if we take your patient " ; " Let me sell MY

subscription plan

> here even though we don't fly here " ; " Call us whenever for whatever,

we

> don't mind " ....this has to stop...it is getting out of hand...and if

you think

> " our flight service doesn't do this kind of thing " you are probably

wrong.?

>

> Ground EMS folks beware...if it hasn't happened to you...it is

coming...get

> your house in order...the next call from a newspaper may be to you

asking why

> you did or did not utilize helicopter A (or C or D).

>

> Dudley

>

> Careflite propagand via the Star Telegram

>

> Things this article conveniently forgets to mention:

>

> The Vice President of Operations of Methodist Hospital, an RN,

sits

> on the board at DFW Airport.

>

> Methodist sponsors Careflite, a non profit organization, as

stated in

> the article.

>

> That Careflite ground has attempted to take over several county

operated EMS

> services. He who has the ground, will also have the air.

>

> I don't recall any statistics from County in the article as

well.

>

> No mention of why PHI is preferred over Careflite. Continuum of care,

less

> arragont crews that don't sit on the ground forever and trash our

ambulances.

>

> http://www.star-http://wwhttp://wwhttp://www.sthttp

<http://www.star-http://wwhttp://wwhttp://www.sthttp>

>

> ____________ ________ ________ ________ ________ _

>

October 22, 2007

Many air providers cannot give an immediate ETA until the unit is actually

dispatched... that is, the crew gets the information and the pilot plot their

course and gets information on weather,etc. In many cases, the pilot gives the

ETA, not the communications center. The communications center relays the pilot's

ETA to the crew requesting them. This is what burns the time up and why ETA's

are not readily available.

Careflite propagand via the Star Telegram

>

> Things this article conveniently forgets to mention:

>

> The Vice President of Operations of Methodist Hospital, an RN, sits

> on the board at DFW Airport.

>

> Methodist sponsors Careflite, a non profit organization, as stated in

> the article.

>

> That Careflite ground has attempted to take over several county operated EMS

> services. He who has the ground, will also have the air.

>

> I don't recall any statistics from County in the article as well.

>

> No mention of why PHI is preferred over Careflite. Continuum of care, less

> arragont crews that don't sit on the ground forever and trash our ambulances.

>

> http://www.star- http://wwhttp: //wwhttp: //www.sthttp

>

> ____________ ________ ________ ________ ________ _

>

October 22, 2007

THE TRUTH IS THE RAC IS WORKING THROUGH THESES ISSUES IN A NON PARTISAN

WAY WITH ME AS CHAIR OF THE AIRMEDICAL COMMITTEE AND ALL SERVICES ARE

REPRESENTED AND WE ARE WORKING ON RECOMMENDATIONS NOW DEALING WITH MANY

ISSUES..THE MEETINGS ARE GOAL ORIENTED TO ADDRESS " WHAT IS THE BEST FOR

THE PATIENT? " . WE MEET TOMORROW AT THE RAC HEADQUARTERS AND ANY

INTERESTED PARTY IS WELCOME TO COME AND HEAR THE FACTS, NOT RUMORS!!!

DR. SIMONSON

Weinzapfel wrote:

>

> Could someone clarify if what I was told is true?

> I was told that CareFlite was designated by the RAC to be the

> facilitator of Airtransport managment (for lack of a better term) in

> the region. So if we call them for a helo in Balch Springs and

> Methodist Helo is on a flight and the next closest is lets say Denton,

> they are supposed to contact another closer provider (PHI-Mckinney or

> LifeStar- Greenville). Is this True? I will hold my comments until I

> can get an answer.....

>

> Oh and is it good practice to give an immediate general eta for the

> helo to a ground provider who is calling so ground crews can make a

> decision on load and go or wait for the bird?

>

> Chris

>

> wegandy1938@... <mailto:wegandy1938%40aol.com> wrote:

> Sit down, Dudley, because we're going to agree again.

>

> There's another interesting aspect I'm seeing here in AZ. People are

> calling the helo because the ground EMS services are so bad.

>

> Arizona is a " certificate of need " state, and a new certificate is almost

> impossible to get. Rural/Metro has the private areas sewed up and it

> is very,

> very powerful in the Legislature.

>

> I have had several medics from this area tell me that If I'm in a

> wreck or

> get bad sick, demand a helo and get enroute to Phoenix or El Paso post

> haste.

>

> Sucks, doesn't it? AZ is 30 years behind Texas in MOST places. There are

> a few bright spots I have found, like Sierra Vista, but the bright

> spots are

> few and far between.

>

> GG

> In a message dated 10/21/07 3:46:02 PM, THEDUDMAN@...

> <mailto:THEDUDMAN%40aol.com> writes:

>

> >

> > There was a 2nd article in the Star Telegram today too:

> >

> > http://www.star-http://wwhttp://www.stahttp://www.

> <http://www.star-http://wwhttp://www.stahttp://www.>

> >

> > Interesting in both of these articles...no one cited a detrimental

> outcome

> > to any patients.? Since most air medical programs fly many many

> patients who

> > do not need to be flown, it is probably hard to find where a patient

> was

> > actually harmed by?any of this.?

> >

> > The fact of the matter is, this is happening all over the state.? Like

> > someone I know says...you could walk from Dallas to San on

> rotor

> > blades...it is getting ridiculous.? And besides patients getting

> harmed (accidents,

> > huge bills, huge trauma center bills when they could have been seen

> at the

> > local ED, etc) now we are seeing EMS agencies starting to get

> harmed.? EMS

> > agencies who are being taken advantage of, lobbied, and wined and

> dined are making

> > decisions based upon this or some other faulty things and because one

> > helicopter program got the call over the other...we are now

> contacting the media and

> > getting these ground services slammed in the media and having their

> decision

> > making questioned publicly.

> >

> > Here is the deal, we have allowed a system to develop where the only

> thing

> > to do with trauma patients is put them on a helicopter.. Here is the

> deal, we

> > have allowed a system to develop where the only thing to do with trauma

> > patients is put them on a helicopter...we never got any

> negative feedback

> > from our flight services because they certainly don't want us to

> call anyone

> > else to take our patients...at the same time,?they bring pizza,

> pies, " lz

> > classes " complete with free Here is the deal, we have allowed a

> system to develop

> > where the only thing to do with trauma patients is put them on a

> helicopter..<

> > wbr>.we never got any negative feedback from our fl

> >

> > My question is do the other flight services (not just CareFlight.. My

> > question is do the other flight services (not just

> CareFlight...there is at

> > least one other besides them and PHI) refuse calls or turf them to

> closer

> > flight services when they are not the closest helicopter?? Does

> their medical

> > directors only direct the helicopter program?? No they don't.? This

> is going on

> > all over the state (and nation).? The truly sad part is that these

> flight

> > services are now willing to throw the very customers that they?need

> to?call them

> > to survive, under the bus because one service or another has an

> upper hand in

> > a certain area or region...knowing that the ground EMS service will

> just

> > take it on the chin...because My question is do the other flight

> services (not

> > jus

> >

> > We need a change.? We need federal law changes so that the antiquated

> > airline deregulation laws that apply to air medical services (for

> some stupid

> > reason)?can be changed so that states can regulate air medical

> services both on

> > operations and safety factors.? Then the State of Texas needs to

> develop a

> > state-wide helicopter plan, dividing the state into regions, dictate

> who can

> > operate in each region, and put performance criteria on these

> agencies so that

> > they have to perform in these regions....and stop this flights at

> all cost

> > mentality that is currently growing and growing across this state.?

> >

> > " They weren't the closest " ; " You can't land on this helipad " ; " You

> have to

> > use our helicopter if we take your patient " ; " Let me sell MY

> subscription plan

> > here even though we don't fly here " ; " Call us whenever for whatever, we

> > don't mind " ....this has to stop...it is getting out of hand...and if

> you think

> > " our flight service doesn't do this kind of thing " you are probably

> wrong.?

> >

> > Ground EMS folks beware...if it hasn't happened to you...it is

> coming...get

> > your house in order...the next call from a newspaper may be to you

> asking why

> > you did or did not utilize helicopter A (or C or D).

> >

> > Dudley

> >

> > Careflite propagand via the Star Telegram

> >

> > Things this article conveniently forgets to mention:

> >

> > The Vice President of Operations of Methodist Hospital, an

> RN, sits

> > on the board at DFW Airport.

> >

> > Methodist sponsors Careflite, a non profit organization, as

> stated in

> > the article.

> >

> > That Careflite ground has attempted to take over several county

> operated EMS

> > services. He who has the ground, will also have the air.

> >

> > I don't recall any statistics from County in the article as

> well.

> >

> > No mention of why PHI is preferred over Careflite. Continuum of

> care, less

> > arragont crews that don't sit on the ground forever and trash our

> ambulances.

> >

> > http://www.star-http://wwhttp://wwhttp://www.sthttp

> <http://www.star-http://wwhttp://wwhttp://www.sthttp>

> >

> > ____________ ________ ________ ________ ________ _

> >

October 22, 2007

I am going to go with YES to the below question since I was email off list with

a reply the it is true and follow up with this;

If I made a call as a ground provider for a Air Medical Transport and the

closest air medical was not available (CareFlite), and the airmedical provider I

called (CareFlite) was the agency determined to make decisions for the RAC to

find the next closest airmedical provider chose to send one of its own that was

further than a closer (other named agency PHI/LifeStar), what would that be

called and as a provider in the RAC what are my options for dealing with this

miss-use of authority and expectation that the right call was being made?

Chris

Weinzapfel wrote:

Could someone clarify if what I was told is true?

I was told that CareFlite was designated by the RAC to be the facilitator of

Airtransport managment (for lack of a better term) in the region. So if we call

them for a helo in Balch Springs and Methodist Helo is on a flight and the next

closest is lets say Denton, they are supposed to contact another closer provider

(PHI-Mckinney or LifeStar- Greenville). Is this True? I will hold my comments

until I can get an answer.....

Oh and is it good practice to give an immediate general eta for the helo to a

ground provider who is calling so ground crews can make a decision on load and

go or wait for the bird?

Chris

wegandy1938@... wrote:

Sit down, Dudley, because we're going to agree again.

There's another interesting aspect I'm seeing here in AZ. People are

calling the helo because the ground EMS services are so bad.

Arizona is a " certificate of need " state, and a new certificate is almost

impossible to get. Rural/Metro has the private areas sewed up and it is very,

very powerful in the Legislature.

I have had several medics from this area tell me that If I'm in a wreck or

get bad sick, demand a helo and get enroute to Phoenix or El Paso post haste.

Sucks, doesn't it? AZ is 30 years behind Texas in MOST places. There are

a few bright spots I have found, like Sierra Vista, but the bright spots are

few and far between.

GG

>

> There was a 2nd article in the Star Telegram today too:

>

> http://www.star-http://wwhttp://www.stahttp://www.

>

> Interesting in both of these articles...no one cited a detrimental outcome

> to any patients.? Since most air medical programs fly many many patients who

> do not need to be flown, it is probably hard to find where a patient was

> actually harmed by?any of this.?

>

> The fact of the matter is, this is happening all over the state.? Like

> someone I know says...you could walk from Dallas to San on rotor

> blades...it is getting ridiculous.? And besides patients getting harmed

(accidents,

> huge bills, huge trauma center bills when they could have been seen at the

> local ED, etc) now we are seeing EMS agencies starting to get harmed.? EMS

> agencies who are being taken advantage of, lobbied, and wined and dined are

making

> decisions based upon this or some other faulty things and because one

> helicopter program got the call over the other...we are now contacting the

media and

> getting these ground services slammed in the media and having their decision

> making questioned publicly.

>

> Here is the deal, we have allowed a system to develop where the only thing

> to do with trauma patients is put them on a helicopter.. Here is the deal, we

> have allowed a system to develop where the only thing to do with trauma

> patients is put them on a helicopter...we never got any negative feedback

> from our flight services because they certainly don't want us to call anyone

> else to take our patients...at the same time,?they bring pizza, pies, " lz

> classes " complete with free Here is the deal, we have allowed a system to

develop

> where the only thing to do with trauma patients is put them on a helicopter..<

> wbr>.we never got any negative feedback from our fl

>

> My question is do the other flight services (not just CareFlight.. My

> question is do the other flight services (not just CareFlight...there is

at

> least one other besides them and PHI) refuse calls or turf them to closer

> flight services when they are not the closest helicopter?? Does their medical

> directors only direct the helicopter program?? No they don't.? This is going

on

> all over the state (and nation).? The truly sad part is that these flight

> services are now willing to throw the very customers that they?need to?call

them

> to survive, under the bus because one service or another has an upper hand in

> a certain area or region...knowing that the ground EMS service will just

> take it on the chin...because My question is do the other flight services (not

> jus

>

> We need a change.? We need federal law changes so that the antiquated

> airline deregulation laws that apply to air medical services (for some stupid

> reason)?can be changed so that states can regulate air medical services both

on

> operations and safety factors.? Then the State of Texas needs to develop a

> state-wide helicopter plan, dividing the state into regions, dictate who can

> operate in each region, and put performance criteria on these agencies so that

> they have to perform in these regions....and stop this flights at all cost

> mentality that is currently growing and growing across this state.?

>

> " They weren't the closest " ; " You can't land on this helipad " ; " You have to

> use our helicopter if we take your patient " ; " Let me sell MY subscription plan

> here even though we don't fly here " ; " Call us whenever for whatever, we

> don't mind " ....this has to stop...it is getting out of hand...and if you think

> " our flight service doesn't do this kind of thing " you are probably wrong.?

>

> Ground EMS folks beware...if it hasn't happened to you...it is coming...get

> your house in order...the next call from a newspaper may be to you asking why

> you did or did not utilize helicopter A (or C or D).

>

> Dudley

>

> Careflite propagand via the Star Telegram

>

> Things this article conveniently forgets to mention:

>

> The Vice President of Operations of Methodist Hospital, an RN, sits

> on the board at DFW Airport.

>

> Methodist sponsors Careflite, a non profit organization, as stated in

> the article.

>

> That Careflite ground has attempted to take over several county operated EMS

> services. He who has the ground, will also have the air.

>

> I don't recall any statistics from County in the article as well.

>

> No mention of why PHI is preferred over Careflite. Continuum of care, less

> arragont crews that don't sit on the ground forever and trash our ambulances.

>

> http://www.star-http://wwhttp://wwhttp://www.sthttp

>

> ____________ ________ ________ ________ ________ _

>

October 22, 2007

Hey Chris. The only official designation by the RAC was the Regional

Communication Center. What this was designed to do was to facilitate

interfacility transfers between the companies to provide service to the

hospitals. I asked long ago why this couldn't be used as a sort of " one

stop shopping " for scene responses.

Some of the answers that came back to me was that it was underutilized

(may not be in service still) and since it was being run by CareFlite,

was there a conflict of interest in having them run it? I think it would

be a natural progression to move something like this to a neutral or

third party site with RAC support and buy in by the participating

services to be available for scene responses within the RAC. If

technology were possible using something similar to an AVL (Automatic

Vehicle Locator) system or GPS, a computer withn human override could

easily determine where the closest available craft would be. End of

calling, false ETAs, brand loyalty, etc.

Lt. Steve Lemming, AAS, LP

EMS Administration Officer

C-Shift

Azle, Texas Fire Department

This e-mail is confidential and intended solely for the use of the

individual (s) to whom it is addressed. Any views or opinions presented

are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of

The City of Azle or its policies. If you have received this e-mail

message in error, please phone Steve Lemming (817)444-7108. Please also

destroy and delete the message from your computer.

For more information on The City of Azle, visit our web site at:

http://www.cityofazle.org <http://www.cityofazle.org/>

Careflite propagand via the Star

>

> Things this article conveniently forgets to mention:

>

> The Vice President of Operations of Methodist Hospital,

an RN, sits

> on the board at DFW Airport.

>

> Methodist sponsors Careflite, a non profit

organization, as stated in

> the article.

>

> That Careflite ground has attempted to take over several

county operated EMS

> services. He who has the ground, will also have the air.

>

> I don't recall any statistics from County in the

article as well.

>

> No mention of why PHI is preferred over Careflite. Continuum

of care, less

> arragont crews that don't sit on the ground forever and trash

our ambulances.

>

> http://www.star-http://wwhttp://wwhttp://www.sthttp

<http://www.star-http://wwhttp://wwhttp://www.sthttp>

>

> ____________ ________ ________ ________ ________ _

>

October 22, 2007

I think that it would be a huge conflict of interest if you put this

responsibility (or power for use of a better word) on any one

specific air medical provider (CareFlite, PHI, Air Evac...etc). It

opens the door for them to show favoritism to their service and/or

neglect other services. If this idea ever progresses to the point

where it is utilized, only a third party, non-biased agency should be

the one fielding the requests for helicopter transport.

D. Stone

> Sit down, Dudley, because we're going to agree again.

>

> There's another interesting aspect I'm seeing here in AZ. People

are

> calling the helo because the ground EMS services are so bad.

>

> Arizona is a " certificate of need " state, and a new certificate is

almost

> impossible to get. Rural/Metro has the private areas sewed up and

it is very,

> very powerful in the Legislature.

>

> I have had several medics from this area tell me that If I'm in a

wreck or

> get bad sick, demand a helo and get enroute to Phoenix or El Paso

post haste.

>

> Sucks, doesn't it? AZ is 30 years behind Texas in MOST places.

There are

> a few bright spots I have found, like Sierra Vista, but the bright

spots are

> few and far between.

>

> GG

>

> >

> > There was a 2nd article in the Star Telegram today too:

> >

> > http://www.star-http://wwhttp://www.stahttp://www.

> >

> > Interesting in both of these articles...no one cited a

detrimental outcome

> > to any patients.? Since most air medical programs fly many many

patients who

> > do not need to be flown, it is probably hard to find where a

patient was

> > actually harmed by?any of this.?

> >

> > The fact of the matter is, this is happening all over the state.?

Like

> > someone I know says...you could walk from Dallas to San

on rotor

> > blades...it is getting ridiculous.? And besides patients getting

harmed (accidents,

> > huge bills, huge trauma center bills when they could have been

seen at the

> > local ED, etc) now we are seeing EMS agencies starting to get

harmed.? EMS

> > agencies who are being taken advantage of, lobbied, and wined and

dined are making

> > decisions based upon this or some other faulty things and because

one

> > helicopter program got the call over the other...we are now

contacting the media and

> > getting these ground services slammed in the media and having

their decision

> > making questioned publicly.

> >

> > Here is the deal, we have allowed a system to develop where the

only thing

> > to do with trauma patients is put them on a helicopter.. Here is

the deal, we

> > have allowed a system to develop where the only thing to do with

trauma

> > patients is put them on a helicopter...we never got any

negative feedback

> > from our flight services because they certainly don't want us to

call anyone

> > else to take our patients...at the same time,?they bring pizza,

pies, " lz

> > classes " complete with free Here is the deal, we have allowed a

system to develop

> > where the only thing to do with trauma patients is put them on a

helicopter..<

> > wbr>.we never got any negative feedback from our fl

> >

> > My question is do the other flight services (not just

CareFlight.. My

> > question is do the other flight services (not just

CareFlight...there is at

> > least one other besides them and PHI) refuse calls or turf them

to closer

> > flight services when they are not the closest helicopter?? Does

their medical

> > directors only direct the helicopter program?? No they don't.?

This is going on

> > all over the state (and nation).? The truly sad part is that

these flight

> > services are now willing to throw the very customers that they?

need to?call them

> > to survive, under the bus because one service or another has an

upper hand in

> > a certain area or region...knowing that the ground EMS service

will just

> > take it on the chin...because My question is do the other flight

services (not

> > jus

> >

> > We need a change.? We need federal law changes so that the

antiquated

> > airline deregulation laws that apply to air medical services (for

some stupid

> > reason)?can be changed so that states can regulate air medical

services both on

> > operations and safety factors.? Then the State of Texas needs to

develop a

> > state-wide helicopter plan, dividing the state into regions,

dictate who can

> > operate in each region, and put performance criteria on these

agencies so that

> > they have to perform in these regions....and stop this flights at

all cost

> > mentality that is currently growing and growing across this

state.?

> >

> > " They weren't the closest " ; " You can't land on this

helipad " ; " You have to

> > use our helicopter if we take your patient " ; " Let me sell MY

subscription plan

> > here even though we don't fly here " ; " Call us whenever for

whatever, we

> > don't mind " ....this has to stop...it is getting out of hand...and

if you think

> > " our flight service doesn't do this kind of thing " you are

probably wrong.?

> >

> > Ground EMS folks beware...if it hasn't happened to you...it is

coming...get

> > your house in order...the next call from a newspaper may be to

you asking why

> > you did or did not utilize helicopter A (or C or D).

> >

> > Dudley

> >

> > Careflite propagand via the Star Telegram

> >

> > Things this article conveniently forgets to mention:

> >

> > The Vice President of Operations of Methodist Hospital, an

RN, sits

> > on the board at DFW Airport.

> >

> > Methodist sponsors Careflite, a non profit organization,

as stated in

> > the article.

> >

> > That Careflite ground has attempted to take over several county

operated EMS

> > services. He who has the ground, will also have the air.

> >

> > I don't recall any statistics from County in the article

as well.

> >

> > No mention of why PHI is preferred over Careflite. Continuum of

care, less

> > arragont crews that don't sit on the ground forever and trash our

ambulances.

> >

> > http://www.star-http://wwhttp://wwhttp://www.sthttp

> >

> > ____________ ________ ________ ________ ________ _

> >

October 22, 2007

Is this a hypothetical scenario or did it really happen. Careflite is

notorious for sending distant units, giving false eta's, thus extending

on scene time. I know this from personal experience. If this did really

happen to you, I do not know what recourse you could take other than

just not calling them. But if you do that, like we did, they will just

use the political strong-arm and in our case, their influence on our

board of directors, and fix it to where you HAVE to use them in a

rotation no matter what. NO, don't try to improve your service, PR, or

rapport with ground crews, just fix it to where ground grews are made

to call you.

Ken

>

> If I made a call as a ground provider for a Air Medical Transport

and the closest air medical was not available (CareFlite), and the

airmedical provider I called (CareFlite) was the agency determined to

make decisions for the RAC to find the next closest airmedical provider

chose to send one of its own that was further than a closer (other

named agency PHI/LifeStar), what would that be called and as a provider

in the RAC what are my options for dealing with this miss-use of

authority and expectation that the right call was being made?

>

> Chris

October 22, 2007

Your message is a little hard to follow, but I think I get what you are

saying. If you call for one company who also runs the Comm Center and

they give you their unit which is farther away than another company, is

this right? My answer is no. If patient care is the priority for any

company, non-profit or for-profit, closest unit prevails. There should

be enough flights for everyone if you factor in interfacility and scene

responses.

It seems that since we have one of the most heavily populated areas of

the state, combined with the fact that there is now competition, things

are getting a little edgy.

The bottom line is respond the closest helicopter regardless of the

paint scheme and call if time is a factor to definitive care. If you can

save 20 minutes by flying, do it.

Lt. Steve Lemming, AAS, LP

EMS Administration Officer

C-Shift

Azle, Texas Fire Department

This e-mail is confidential and intended solely for the use of the

individual (s) to whom it is addressed. Any views or opinions presented

are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of

The City of Azle or its policies. If you have received this e-mail

message in error, please phone Steve Lemming (817)444-7108. Please also

destroy and delete the message from your computer.

For more information on The City of Azle, visit our web site at:

http://www.cityofazle.org <http://www.cityofazle.org/>

Careflite propagand via the Star

>

> Things this article conveniently forgets to mention:

>

> The Vice President of Operations of Methodist Hospital,

an RN, sits

> on the board at DFW Airport.

>

> Methodist sponsors Careflite, a non profit

organization, as stated in

> the article.

>

> That Careflite ground has attempted to take over several

county operated EMS

> services. He who has the ground, will also have the air.

>

> I don't recall any statistics from County in the

article as well.

>

> No mention of why PHI is preferred over Careflite. Continuum

of care, less

> arragont crews that don't sit on the ground forever and trash

our ambulances.

>

> http://www.star-http://wwhttp://wwhttp://www.sthttp

<http://www.star-http://wwhttp://wwhttp://www.sthttp>

>

> ____________ ________ ________ ________ ________ _

>

October 22, 2007

>

> Is this a hypothetical scenario or did it really happen. Careflite

is

> notorious for sending distant units, giving false eta's, thus

extending

> on scene time. I know this from personal experience. If this did

really

> happen to you, I do not know what recourse you could take other

than

> just not calling them. But if you do that, like we did, they will

just

> use the political strong-arm and in our case, their influence on

our

> board of directors, and fix it to where you HAVE to use them in a

> rotation no matter what. NO, don't try to improve your service, PR,

or

> rapport with ground crews, just fix it to where ground grews are

made

> to call you.

>

> Ken

Forgot to add to also get a reporter in bed with you so they can

write a biased article trying to discredit the competitions medical

director and accuse him of receiving kickbacks. That's how you

improve your imagine and credibility among ground EMS crews, yeah

that's how!

> > If I made a call as a ground provider for a Air Medical

Transport

> and the closest air medical was not available (CareFlite), and the

> airmedical provider I called (CareFlite) was the agency determined

to

> make decisions for the RAC to find the next closest airmedical

provider

> chose to send one of its own that was further than a closer (other

> named agency PHI/LifeStar), what would that be called and as a

provider

> in the RAC what are my options for dealing with this miss-use of

> authority and expectation that the right call was being made?

> >

> > Chris

>

October 22, 2007

Not only was this a real scenario, it has happened on 6 different occaisions

inside of 2yrs and no one seems to care that it is affecting " patients " . I feel

this is a area that TDSHS and the RAC need to get deep into before the press

gets a hold of it. I feel however since it is already starting with the recent

article, that it won't be long and one of the stations will have the " big "

story.

Just a side question, has anyone had CareFlite actually call another provider

for them with them on the line?

I was wondering if anyone else can comment otherwise.

Chris

wrote: