EMS Fatgue

[Guest guest]

The same way the IAFF deals with them.

It’s my answer to those and the next ten, the IAFF works for FF’s, and it’s

successful because it is powerful and represents FF’s as a whole. The same

as any EMS union/organization needs to do, it needs to fight for the rights

of the individual EMS technician. It needs to be able to ignore those who

choose to incite the crap between different types of providers. The IAFF

doesn’t care if you belong to a small FD with 6 members in your local or a

huge union with 1000 members in your local, they represent you.

If you pay your dues, you are a member, if you are a member, you are

represented by the union/organization. Period end of story.

What we have at this moment does not work, we see organizations that do, the

IAFF, Texas BNE and the likes. If what they have works, why not fashion our

structure after theirs? Because we are so different in what we do? That has

nothing to do with a representative organizations structure It’s like we

don’t want to try anything different because to do so, would be admitting

that someone else figured it out and we want to tag along…….

In so much as apathy, this conversation came up once before, and I will

reiterate what I said before.

I have spent countless hours working with small rural and volunteer

organizations to make sure that they had CE opportunities for free, I have

dined with State representatives detailing the plight of Texas EMS, I have

fought Medicare tooth and nail to change the ratings of services to increase

their reimbursement rate. I still work daily to insure that EMS is never

brushed to the side, I will continue to fight for EMS, specifically Texas

EMS, and more specifically, rural Texas EMS with every breath I have.

I can assure you that I am far from apathetic, and until you are clear and

concise on my personal reasons for not joining EMSAT, I would urge you to

rethink your blanket statement that those who are not members are

‘apathetic’.

Re: EMS Fatgue

In a message dated 8/19/2007 7:49:40 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

HYPERLINK " mailto:lverrett%40swbell.net " lverrett (AT) swbell (DOT) -net writes:

As far as a Union goes, yes I am all for it. As far as EMSAt goes, yes I am

all for it. Will either be able to change the current labor laws, no.

Because

congress does not care.

Please explain to me who you " unionize " " EMS " ,

1) how do you deal with volunteers in a union?

2) what is your " local " structure?

3) how do you have collective bargaining on the level of the " whole of EMS " ?

4)answer those and there are 10 more behind them.

Also, we in Texas do not need CONGRESS to change any labor laws when if we

could must there right lobby in Austin we might be able to get the

Legislature

here to impact the regulatory process so that regulations would be

promulgated to affect the fatigue issue and some other issues that have been

discussed

here.

As the Vice-President of EMSAT it's hard for me to say to some Legislator in

Austin that I think EMS Providers want XYZ and then I get to tell him I have

250 members. Really hard since he or she has not even got the time to see me

since my voice is so small.

Apathy is our first issue to overcome and we need to look in the mirror.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/-EMSI

Owner and President of LNM Emergency Services Consulting Services (LNMECS)

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/-Author/Journalis-t/Fire Protection Consultant

HYPERLINK " mailto:LNMolino%40aol.com " LNMolino (AT) aol (DOT) -com

(Cell Phone)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Office)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Fax)

(Home Phone)

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with

unless I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only

for its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by

the

original author.

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[Guest guest]

Bingo! I think you said a lot with that statement. It seems like most providers

work another job no matter what the hours are.

The bottom line is EMS companies need to put more units in service. It seems the

IAFF is interested in firefighters and job security and not EMS as a profession.

There interest is keeping in the fire departments and not in the hands of

municipalities or private owners.

How many fire departments are ran by Paramedics? Medics who have done there time

in the field?

L.

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[Guest guest]

Comments in line.

LNM

In a message dated 8/19/2007 10:56:35 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

hatfield@... writes:

Not until EMS is mandated in Texas, until then the volunteers are an

integral part of the system.

Even if it was I think that as large and as rural as parts of Texas are you

can't ever have a true working system without some level of volunteers but

your point about the mandate is a valid one.

The IAFF takes a particularly nasty look at volunteers, anyone associated

with the IAFF knows this, the sad thing about that (in my opinion) is that

the vast majority of us in both Fire and EMS, all got our start via the

volunteer system.

I just can't see how a Union in the same vein as any true union could do

that? As for the IAFF stance on volunteers I've known literally dozens of IAFF

Members that were also very much active in the VFD world in the same county as

they were a career FF in, the IAFF stance is one that seems to have its roots

only on the level of the International and in those areas where the Locals

choose to attack it. In NYC they actually had to ask some of the IAFF Members

from FDNY NOT t bring the Command cars that they were issued from their VFD's

to their duty shifts at FDNY! In NJ there are guys that have been in VFD's

longer then they have been in the union etc. Its at best segmented.

In my not so humble opinion, so long as the volunteers are paying their

dues, and EMS is not mandated, then any Union/Organization should represent

them as they represent anyone else.

I am not even sure that would be legal but then again I did not sleep at a

Holiday Inn, and I sure as hell am not a lawyer.

Once we (hopefully) get a mandate, then the cities and counties will be

forced to pay livable wages, the volunteers may take a less active role, but

they will still be there

Given how hard the lobby against any mandates let alone an EMS mandate I

can't speculate when we see that mandate.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Owner and President of LNM Emergency Services Consulting Services (LNMECS)

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Office)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Fax)

(Home Phone)

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

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[Guest guest]

Tip O'Neill was supposed to have said, " All politics is local. " and that's

certainly true in what we're talking about when it comes to change.

Over and over on here I have urged people to talk to their state

representatives and senators about EMS between sessions. Get one-on-one with

them, take

them to lunch (they never turn down a free lunch) and explain the issues to

them. Many of them simply don't know. If they're too " high powered " for you

to get to, make friends with one of their staff members who handles public

safety and health issues for them.

That's where we drop the ball. There are 50,000+ certified and licensed EMS

folks in Texas, and if every one of them simply made a phone call it would

have an effect.

Yes, apathy is our enemy.

GG

>

>

> In a message dated 8/19/2007 7:49:40 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

> lverrett@... writes:

>

> As far as a Union goes, yes I am all for it. As far as EMSAt goes, yes I am

> all for it. Will either be able to change the current labor laws, no.

> Because

> congress does not care.

>

> Please explain to me who you " unionize " " EMS " ,

>

> 1) how do you deal with volunteers in a union?

>

> 2) what is your " local " structure?

>

> 3) how do you have collective bargaining on the level of the " whole of EMS " ?

>

>

> 4)answer those and there are 10 more behind them.

>

> Also, we in Texas do not need CONGRESS to change any labor laws when if we

> could must there right lobby in Austin we might be able to get the

> Legislature

> here to impact the regulatory process so that regulations would be

> promulgated to affect the fatigue issue and some other issues that have been

> discussed

> here.

>

> As the Vice-President of EMSAT it's hard for me to say to some Legislator in

> Austin that I think EMS Providers want XYZ and then I get to tell him I have

> 250 members. Really hard since he or she has not even got the time to see me

> since my voice is so small.

>

> Apathy is our first issue to overcome and we need to look in the mirror.

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/ FF/

> Owner and President of LNM Emergency Services Consulting Services (LNMECS)

> Freelance Consultant/Trainer/ Freelance Cons Freelance Consultant/Traine

>

> LNMolino@...

>

> (Cell Phone)

> (IFW/TFW/FSS Office)

> (IFW/TFW/FSS Fax)

> (Home Phone)

>

> The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

> author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

> organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with

> unless I

> specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only

> for its

> stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

> retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by

> the

> original author.

>

> ************ ******** ******** ************<wbr>*********<wbr>*********<wbr>

> **

> http://discover.http://discovehttp://disco

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/19/2007 11:21:41 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

wegandy1938@... writes:

Yes, apathy is our enemy.

Thank you!

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Owner and President of LNM Emergency Services Consulting Services (LNMECS)

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Office)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Fax)

(Home Phone)

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

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[Guest guest]

Not until EMS is mandated in Texas, until then the volunteers are an

integral part of the system.

The IAFF takes a particularly nasty look at volunteers, anyone associated

with the IAFF knows this, the sad thing about that (in my opinion) is that

the vast majority of us in both Fire and EMS, all got our start via the

volunteer system.

In my not so humble opinion, so long as the volunteers are paying their

dues, and EMS is not mandated, then any Union/Organization should represent

them as they represent anyone else.

Once we (hopefully) get a mandate, then the cities and counties will be

forced to pay livable wages, the volunteers may take a less active role, but

they will still be there.

Re: EMS Fatgue

In a message dated 8/19/2007 4:34:10 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

HYPERLINK " mailto:hatfield%40neopolis.net " hatfield (AT) neopolis (DOT) -net writes:

The same way the IAFF deals with them.

As a way to deal with volunteers is what you're saying?

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/-EMSI

Owner and President of LNM Emergency Services Consulting Services (LNMECS)

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/-Author/Journalis-t/Fire Protection Consultant

HYPERLINK " mailto:LNMolino%40aol.com " LNMolino (AT) aol (DOT) -com

(Cell Phone)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Office)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Fax)

(Home Phone)

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with

unless I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only

for its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by

the

original author.

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[Guest guest]

Barry,

I am in complete agreement.

The reason that most people in EMS resist a change to 8 or 12 hour shifts is

that they have second or third jobs on their days off to make a decent living.

EMS should pay a decent living without having to work 144 hours a week to do

it.

Gene G.

>

> A few years ago, I posed the idea of getting away from the 24-hour shifts to

> more of a PD type of 8- or 12-hour shifts and was torched by more than one

> response.

>

> I've watched a number of my colleagues who's bodies are trashed out by the

> time they start getting to a point where retirement is a reality. In a 20-year

> and out system, that means retirement that could start as early as someone's

> mid-40s and their back and knees are to the point that the quality of life

> for the next 30 years is pretty well shot.

>

> If we are working our medics to the point of being physically wasted at the

> end of each shift, imagine what we are doing over the course of their career.

> Unfortunately, we view medics like nursing homes view nurse aids...as

> disposable products that can be replaced easily and quickly. We need to

rethink our

> staffing and shifting patterns and adjust our salaries so that we don't kill

> the ability of our staff to be able to take care of their families in a way

> that doesn't suggest poverty wages or that our profession doesn't have a

> future. If our people are our biggest assets, then we need to find solutions

that

> show where the priorites are.

>

> Barry

>

>

[Guest guest]

Not until EMS is mandated in Texas, until then the volunteers are an

integral part of the system.

The IAFF takes a particularly nasty look at volunteers, anyone associated

with the IAFF knows this, the sad thing about that (in my opinion) is that

the vast majority of us in both Fire and EMS, all got our start via the

volunteer system.

In my not so humble opinion, so long as the volunteers are paying their

dues, and EMS is not mandated, then any Union/Organization should represent

them as they represent anyone else.

Once we (hopefully) get a mandate, then the cities and counties will be

forced to pay livable wages, the volunteers may take a less active role, but

they will still be there

Re: EMS Fatgue

In a message dated 8/19/2007 4:34:10 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

HYPERLINK " mailto:hatfield%40neopolis.net " hatfield (AT) neopolis (DOT) -net writes:

The same way the IAFF deals with them.

As a way to deal with volunteers is what you're saying?

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/-EMSI

Owner and President of LNM Emergency Services Consulting Services (LNMECS)

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/-Author/Journalis-t/Fire Protection Consultant

HYPERLINK " mailto:LNMolino%40aol.com " LNMolino (AT) aol (DOT) -com

(Cell Phone)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Office)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Fax)

(Home Phone)

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with

unless I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only

for its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by

the

original author.

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HYPERLINK

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[Guest guest]

A few years ago, I posed the idea of getting away from the 24-hour shifts to

more of a PD type of 8- or 12-hour shifts and was torched by more than one

response.

I've watched a number of my colleagues who's bodies are trashed out by the time

they start getting to a point where retirement is a reality. In a 20-year and

out system, that means retirement that could start as early as someone's mid-40s

and their back and knees are to the point that the quality of life for the next

30 years is pretty well shot.

If we are working our medics to the point of being physically wasted at the end

of each shift, imagine what we are doing over the course of their career.

Unfortunately, we view medics like nursing homes view nurse aids...as disposable

products that can be replaced easily and quickly. We need to rethink our

staffing and shifting patterns and adjust our salaries so that we don't kill the

ability of our staff to be able to take care of their families in a way that

doesn't suggest poverty wages or that our profession doesn't have a future. If

our people are our biggest assets, then we need to find solutions that show

where the priorites are.

Barry

[Guest guest]

Getting rid of 24 hr shifts is not the answer. The only answer is placing more

medic units in service.

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[Guest guest]

At one time the IAFF had it in their bylaws that a union member was not allowed

to volunteer.

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[Guest guest]

>

>

>

> In a message dated 8/19/2007 11:34:59 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

> hatfield@... writes:

>

> Unfortunately, EMSAT hasn’t been able to come up with an answer.

>

>

> Having been on the BoD for 2 years I agree but I blame those that

would

> rather tear whatever it (EMSAT) does down as oppose to try to work

in any

> structure, that and the apparent apathy on the PROVIDER level since

after all only

> 250 or so out of some 50,000 Providers are members and of that only

about 25

> are ACTIVE in stating their opinions and beliefs and the like.

>

> The same can be said at the national (NAEMT) level given the number

of

> Providers in the us versus the numbers of Members of NAEMT and

their Active

> Members level as well.

>

> I too have not got answers per se but I have opinions and I do try

to work

> the system even though at times it appears fruitless.

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

> Owner and President of LNM Emergency Services Consulting Services

(LNMECS)

>

>

I agree that Shifts are too long and there are way to many calls in

some shifts. And I agree that most management and the congress or

even DSHS dont really care about it. No company or EMS provider to

my knowledge has been suied due to mistakes made by fatigued

employees. I would not disagree with EMS becoming organinized with a

union. But I think you have to fix the real problem at hand before

there will be any real relief. And I believe that the real problem

is simply there is just not enought paramedics. How can we work

shorter shifts and run fewer calls if there is nobody else to do the

job?

[Guest guest]

It’s still there, for that matter, a union member is not supposed to work a

part time job either

RE: EMS Fatgue

At one time the IAFF had it in their bylaws that a union member was not

allowed to volunteer.

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77

[Guest guest]

I am authorized to man 7 ambulances and I can man six on a real good day and

that is if my staff volunteers to work an extra shift. (See the pattern here)? I

do not mandate six trucks but I do have to mandate 5.? I could have 14 trucks

but I still need someone to work on them.? I know each and everyone of you are

short medics, so here we go loopty-loop, here we go loopty-lye.?

Andy

Bingo! I think you said a lot with that statement. It seems like most providers

work another job no matter what the hours are.

The bottom line is EMS companies need to put more units in service. It seems the

IAFF is interested in firefighters and job security and not EMS as a profession.

There interest is keeping in the fire departments and not in the hands of

municipalities or private owners.

How many fire departments are ran by Paramedics? Medics who have done there time

in the field?

L.

Re: EMS Fatgue

Bingo! I think you said a lot with that statement. It seems like most providers

work another job no matter what the hours are.

The bottom line is EMS companies need to put more units in service. It seems the

IAFF is interested in firefighters and job security and not EMS as a profession.

There interest is keeping in the fire departments and not in the hands of

municipalities or private owners.

How many fire departments are ran by Paramedics? Medics who have done there time

in the field?

L.

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[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/20/2007 8:31:49 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

hatfield@... writes:

It’s still there, for that matter, a union member is not supposed to work a

part time job either

Its selectively enforced in different parts of the US as far as I can tell

and as for no part time jobs have you ever met a FF that did not have at least

one?

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Owner and President of LNM Emergency Services Consulting Services (LNMECS)

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Office)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Fax)

(Home Phone)

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

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[Guest guest]

LMAO, I can't think of many that don't have TWO spare jobs to fill the time up.

It's like Andy said though, even if they were making enough money at 1 job,

chances are they would still continue working a second one, just for the extra

income.

I thihk we have done so much with so little for so long, we ofteb try and build

a ridiculous cushion to fall back on.....

Hatfield FF/EMT-P

www.canyonlakefire-ems.org

Re: EMS Fatgue

[Guest guest]

,

I can remember in 1989, before I retired from Mobil, I was making $80k a year, I

was working OT like it was never coming back.? I could buy the biggest TV/Stereo

system from one payday's OT.?

There are just too many type? " A " personalities that just don't know when to

quit.? I really do not see how they do it.? I asked some of my ex-employees that

went on to RN school if it was worth it, and they said they made a great big

mistake but got used to the money and can't come back.

Andy Foote

Re: EMS Fatgue

[Guest guest]

Personaly I believe that there was a time when Unions were a good and practical

thing. Today, they are crooked, misleading, and are far more trouble than they

are damned worth. The IAFF instead of shunning or looking down their noses at

Volunteer firefighters or EMT's, should take them under their wing and fight for

better equipment, training, structure etc, etc, etc. Do they? Hell no.

Because of that, they themselves are worthless just because they have the plain

audacity to thumb their noses at us! I cry FOUL!

" don't feed the trolls "

A.Dempsey EMT-I/FF

kdempseyjr@...

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

It's all about job security and how much pay they can get.

How about that thing they are supporting for president. Did any Local members on

this list get the opportunity to have a say in that decision?? Or is it just the

big Locals such as FDNY that make the decisions for the little guy??

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[Guest guest]

You can always vote for whoever you feel like, contribute to whomever you wish

(although donations by the organization might annoy you) and speak your mind

wherever you wish - being in the union doesn't block your Constitutional Rights.

" lwd7734@... " wrote: It's all about job

security and how much pay they can get.

How about that thing they are supporting for president. Did any Local members on

this list get the opportunity to have a say in that decision?? Or is it just the

big Locals such as FDNY that make the decisions for the little guy??

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[Guest guest]

Best shift I ever worked (for 3+ years) was 1800 to 0500 on Wed, Thurs, Fri,

Sat....I too thought 24's were the way to go....until about 2 weeks into it when

I realized I no longer got my sleep interrupted to run a call.....really nice

BTW.

Unfortunately, my agency still uses 24/48's...why???? It is the cheapest and

most efficient way to provide round the clock coverage...although moving away

from this is in our strategic plan for the future....

Dudley

RE: Re: EMS Fatgue

Getting rid of 24 hr shifts is not the answer. The only answer is placing more

medic units in service.

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[Guest guest]

A few year back Acadian implemented a down time policy in which a crew working a

24 hour unit can request down time. Once requested dispatch is to give them a

min. of 4 hours of uninterupted rest. The crews are not permitted to leave the

station, and they should be utilizing the time to sleep and nothing else. The

crew is paid for this. One would think that crews would use this all the time,

but we have noticed that this does not happen as often as one would think. The

reason being is because the 24 hour crew knows that if they call for down time,

the call load increases on the other units. Once a crew does call for down

time, the supervisor reviews the unit hour utilization to determine if it was

warrented. Most of the time it is.

Hamilton

Acadian Ambulance

Hatfield wrote:

Not until EMS is mandated in Texas, until then the volunteers are an

integral part of the system.

The IAFF takes a particularly nasty look at volunteers, anyone associated

with the IAFF knows this, the sad thing about that (in my opinion) is that

the vast majority of us in both Fire and EMS, all got our start via the

volunteer system.

In my not so humble opinion, so long as the volunteers are paying their

dues, and EMS is not mandated, then any Union/Organization should represent

them as they represent anyone else.

Once we (hopefully) get a mandate, then the cities and counties will be

forced to pay livable wages, the volunteers may take a less active role, but

they will still be there.

Re: EMS Fatgue

In a message dated 8/19/2007 4:34:10 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

HYPERLINK " mailto:hatfield%40neopolis.net " hatfield (AT) neopolis (DOT) -net writes:

The same way the IAFF deals with them.

As a way to deal with volunteers is what you're saying?

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/-EMSI

Owner and President of LNM Emergency Services Consulting Services (LNMECS)

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/-Author/Journalis-t/Fire Protection Consultant

HYPERLINK " mailto:LNMolino%40aol.com " LNMolino (AT) aol (DOT) -com

(Cell Phone)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Office)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Fax)

(Home Phone)

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with

unless I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only

for its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by

the

original author.

************-*********-*********-******** Get a sneak peek of the all-new

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[Guest guest]

,

What's the UHU cutoff for this?

What if, for example, a crew had done fewer calls but they were higher

density calls such as cardiac arrests, critical traumas, and other stressful

calls.

How does Acadian assess those situations? How do you even out the stress on

a crew that has done two cardiac arrests back to back, and then an MCI with

multiple critical patients, and the crew that has made twice as many calls but

they were all either no transports or minor emergencies?

Is there a way to do this?

Gene Gandy

>

> A few year back Acadian implemented a down time policy in which a crew

> working a 24 hour unit can request down time. Once requested dispatch is to

give

> them a min. of 4 hours of uninterupted rest. The crews are not permitted to

> leave the station, and they should be utilizing the time to sleep and nothing

> else. The crew is paid for this. One would think that crews would use this all

> the time, but we have noticed that this does not happen as often as one

> would think. The reason being is because the 24 hour crew knows that if they

call

> for down time, the call load increases on the other units. Once a crew does

> call for down time, the supervisor reviews the unit hour utilization to

> determine if it was warranted. Most of the time it is.

>

> Hamilton

> Acadian Ambulance

>

> Hatfield wrote:

>

>

> Not until EMS is mandated in Texas, until then the volunteers are an

> integral part of the system.

>

> The IAFF takes a particularly nasty look at volunteers, anyone associated

> with the IAFF knows this, the sad thing about that (in my opinion) is that

> the vast majority of us in both Fire and EMS, all got our start via the

> volunteer system.

>

> In my not so humble opinion, so long as the volunteers are paying their

> dues, and EMS is not mandated, then any Union/Organization should represent

> them as they represent anyone else.

>

> Once we (hopefully) get a mandate, then the cities and counties will be

> forced to pay livable wages, the volunteers may take a less active role, but

> they will still be there.

>

> Re: EMS Fatgue

>

> In a message dated 8/19/2007 4:34:10 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

> HYPERLINK " mailto:hatfield% HYPERLINK HYPERLINK " m HYPERLIN HYPERLINK "

>

> The same way the IAFF deals with them.

>

> As a way to deal with volunteers is what you're saying?

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/ FF/N

> Owner and President of LNM Emergency Services Consulting Services (LNMECS)

> Freelance Consultant/Trainer/ Freelance Consu Freelance Consultant/Trainer/

>

> HYPERLINK " mailto:LNMolino% HYPERLINK HYPERLIN HYPERLI

>

> (Cell Phone)

> (IFW/TFW/FSS Office)

> (IFW/TFW/FSS Fax)

> (Home Phone)

>

> The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

>

> author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

> organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with

> unless I

> specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only

> for its

> stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

> retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by

> the

> original author.

>

> ************ ******** ******** ******** ************<wbr>-********<wbr>*-

> AOL at

> HYPERLINK

> " http://discover.http://discovehttp://disco " http://discover.http://dihttp://

> aolcom30tour

>

>

[Guest guest]

What do they do with ED Docs???? After working two codes and 8 patients coming

in from an MVA around the corner....how does the ED Doc request down-time to

rest and recuperate?? What about the nurses?? What about lab, RT or radiology

who not only have to run to the ED but have other duties throughout the

hospital...how do they request down time???

Dudley

Re: EMS Fatgue

>

> In a message dated 8/19/2007 4:34:10 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

> HYPERLINK " mailto:hatfield% HYPERLINK HYPERLINK " m HYPERLIN HYPERLINK "

>

> The same way the IAFF deals with them.

>

> As a way to deal with volunteers is what you're saying?

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/ FF/N

> Owner and President of LNM Emergency Services Consulting Services (LNMECS)

> Freelance Consultant/Trainer/ Freelance Consu Freelance Consultant/Trainer/

>

> HYPERLINK " mailto:LNMolino% HYPERLINK HYPERLIN HYPERLI

>

> (Cell Phone)

> (IFW/TFW/FSS Office)

> (IFW/TFW/FSS Fax)

> (Home Phone)

>

> The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

>

> author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

> organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with

> unless I

> specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only

> for its

> stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

> retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by

> the

> original author.

>

> ************ ******** ******** ******** ************<wbr>-********<wbr>*-

> AOL at

> HYPERLINK

> " http://discover.http://discovehttp://disco " http://discover.http://dihttp://

> aolcom30tour

>

>

[Guest guest]

The ER docs go to their room and take a nap.

GG

>

> What do they do with ED Docs???? After working two codes and 8 patients

> coming in from an MVA around the corner....how does the ED Doc request

down-time

> to rest and recuperate?? What about the nurses?? What about lab, RT or

> radiology who not only have to run to the ED but have other duties throughout

the

> hospital...how do they request down time???

>

> Dudley

>

> Re: EMS Fatgue

> >

> > In a message dated 8/19/2007 4:34:10 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

> > HYPERLINK " mailto:hatfield% HYPERLINK HYPERLINK " m HYPERLIN HYPERLINK "

> >

> > The same way the IAFF deals with them.

> >

> > As a way to deal with volunteers is what you're saying?

> >

> > Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

> > FF/NREMT-B/FSI/ FF/N

> > Owner and President of LNM Emergency Services Consulting Services (LNMECS)

> > Freelance Consultant/Trainer/ Freelance Consu Freelance Consultant/Trainer/

>

> >

> > HYPERLINK " mailto:LNMolino% HYPERLINK HYPERLIN HYPERLI

> >

> > (Cell Phone)

> > (IFW/TFW/FSS Office)

> > (IFW/TFW/FSS Fax)

> > (Home Phone)

> >

> > The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and

> the

> >

> > author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

> > organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with

> > unless I

> > specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended

> only

> > for its

> > stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

> > retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain

> by

> > the

> > original author.

> >

> > ************ ******** ******** ******** ************<wbr>-***-***<<wbr><w

> > AOL at

> > HYPERLINK

> > " http://discover.http://discover.http://dis "

> http://discover.http://discoveht

> > aolcom30tour

> >

> >