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When docs and nurses get paid less than $12 per hour then I will have

compassion. Even in our rural hospital, the ER staff works 12 hours and go

home. Our doc usually works 24 hours, nurses do a lot of preliminary work

like ordering labs, xrays, etc. then call doc…which could take an hour or

more. And hey…what’s better than a 3 minute power nap at 2 am?

D

_____

From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On

Behalf Of THEDUDMAN@...

Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 01 08

To: texasems-l

Subject: Re: EMS Fatgue

What do they do with ED Docs???? After working two codes and 8 patients

coming in from an MVA around the corner....how does the ED Doc request

down-time to rest and recuperate?? What about the nurses?? What about lab,

RT or radiology who not only have to run to the ED but have other duties

throughout the hospital...how do they request down time???

Dudley

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Easy with the paint brush! No hospital I have worked in in the last 6

years even has a sleep room for ED physicians! When I need a break, I

go to the office and do push ups, sit ups, etc. The last time I slept

while working in an ED was moonlighting as a resident in 1995. I

could only sleep if no patients were in the ED!

>

> The ER docs go to their room and take a nap.

>

> GG

>

>

>

> >

> > What do they do with ED Docs???? After working two codes and 8

patients

> > coming in from an MVA around the corner....how does the ED Doc

request down-time

> > to rest and recuperate?? What about the nurses?? What about lab,

RT or

> > radiology who not only have to run to the ED but have other duties

throughout the

> > hospital...how do they request down time???

> >

> > Dudley

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So...if you get paid $18 an hour you no longer get fatigued?  Interesting...I

have heard of circadian rhythms, sleep cycles, etc...never heard of sleeping

cash cycles...Should REM sleep be re-spelt as REMM?  Rapid Eye Movements

looking for Money?

Honestly, like any other work, we have to take care of our people and have means

of addressing this.  If it is an occasional thing " break " periods may be

possible, but honestly, if it happens often...no more 24 hour shifts is a means

to solve this.  It isn't cool, it isn't sexy, and it does mean that our 2nd or

3rd jobs/careers may need to be adjusted...but a guy most on here think is an

idiot once said " In EMS, we can NEVER allow the conveniences of our employees to

inconvenience our customers. "

Also, as the " angry cruel management " guy on here...medics also have to come to

work prepared to work a 24-hour shift.  Coming in still feeling the effects of

the night before or staying up until 0300 playing PlayStation before an 0700

start time and then EXPECTING to be able to catch up on sleep while on shift is

another tremendous problem.  When an employee is dozing off during unit checks

and station duties...how can we expect them to be able to function after lunch

let alone after 2200?

Dudley

RE: EMS Fatgue

When docs and nurses get paid less than $12 per hour then I will have

ompassion. Even in our rural hospital, the ER staff works 12 hours and go

ome. Our doc usually works 24 hours, nurses do a lot of preliminary work

ike ordering labs, xrays, etc. then call doc…which could take an hour or

ore. And hey…what’s better than a 3 minute power nap at 2 am?

D

_____

From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On

ehalf Of THEDUDMAN@...

ent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 01 08

o: texasems-l

ubject: Re: EMS Fatgue

What do they do with ED Docs???? After working two codes and 8 patients

oming in from an MVA around the corner....how does the ED Doc request

own-time to rest and recuperate?? What about the nurses?? What about lab,

T or radiology who not only have to run to the ED but have other duties

hroughout the hospital...how do they request down time???

Dudley

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Dudley,

Your such a kidder! What a jokester!

Henry

RE: EMS Fatgue

When docs and nurses get paid less than $12 per hour then I will have

ompassion. Even in our rural hospital, the ER staff works 12 hours and go

ome. Our doc usually works 24 hours, nurses do a lot of preliminary work

ike ordering labs, xrays, etc. then call doc…which could take an hour or

ore. And hey…what’s better than a 3 minute power nap at 2 am?

D

_____

From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On

ehalf Of THEDUDMAN@...

ent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 01 08

o: texasems-l

ubject: Re: EMS Fatgue

What do they do with ED Docs???? After working two codes and 8 patients

oming in from an MVA around the corner....how does the ED Doc request

own-time to rest and recuperate?? What about the nurses?? What about lab,

T or radiology who not only have to run to the ED but have other duties

hroughout the hospital...how do they request down time???

Dudley

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Why should EMS folks have to work 24 or 48 hour shifts and count on overtime

to make a decent wage that will raise a family?

Police officers don't. Waste disposal technicians don't. Nurses don't.

Respiratory technicians don't. X-Ray techs don't.

All those folks make more money than EMS folks do.

There is no reason other than lack of funding for an essential service, EMS,

that requires EMS personnel to have to work three times more hours a week than

your postal service employee does to make the same living. And if your

postal employee doesn't deliver your mail, generally nobody dies.

Yet, our wonderful elected representatives, City Councilpersons, County

Commissioners, County Judges, State Representatives, State Senators, Governor,

Lieutenant Governor, and Commissioner of Health don't see us as being an

essential

service. So we're not. We're not needed in more than 20 counties in

Texas, and our elected officials are quite willing to outsource EMS to the

LOWEST

BIDDER, which is common practice.

God forbid that a governmental entity in Texas ought to have to fund an EMS

service as a part of its fundamental services and to have to accept

responsibility for its level of care.

Why do municipal employees in most big cities work a 40 hour week and make

more than a Paramedic and not have to risk being run over on the highway while

trying to help somebody or shot by a crazy when responding to a call?

Why do we subject the people who make the most difference in the lives of

most people to the worst working conditions of all folks who deal with

emergencies? Elevator technicians have better working conditions than EMS

folks do.

I wonder whether it is because we have very low self-esteem in our jobs. If

we truly thought we were essential to the survival of mankind, we would de

mand that we be paid for the essential services that we provide, right? But

NOOOOoooooooo! We SAY we're essential, but we cannot convince the money people

that we are, and we just accept our fate and go on doing what makes us happy

and rationalizing why we are eligible for food stamps even though we just saved

the life of the Mayor's love-child.

" I love this so much I would do it for nothing. " ----LeRoy Mushbrain, EMT

We don't organize. We don't use the most elementary methods of political

pressure to help ourselves. We just pull back into our shells and say " well,

there's nothing I can do about it. I'm just lucky to have a job. "

We pride ourselves on being aggressive, " Git 'r Done " types, but when it

comes to taking up for ourselves, making the elected dopes take notice of us,

and

standing up to the stupid, [sOMETIMES] mindless SUITS who [sOMETIMES] rule us,

we become whining, whimpering, lambs, ready for slaughter.

So we work for low pay, accept poor working conditions, don't demand benefits

such as health insurance and pensions, allow ourselves to be sent out when

we're exhausted and cannot possibly render optimum healthcare, and don't

complain because we are afraid. Afraid of being fired. And we ought to be

afraid

because Texas is an " at will state, " and you can be fired for the shape of

your nose. But then you knew that, didn't you? You voted for the idiots who

passed those laws, didn't you? Or you voted against them, didn't you? OH!

You didn't vote? Well, then don't whine.

We also won't spend $1.00 a day to join an organization that might negotiate

much better working conditions for us (typical union dues). We won't spend

$0.10 a day to belong to an organization that might have a real influence on EMS

if all 50,000 of us joined EMSAT.

We are our own worst problem.

Now that I'm in Arizona, rather than Texas, I am beginning to assess the EMS

scene here, and I will be posting some comparisons for you.

So far I'm not impressed! LOL.

Gene Gandy, JD, LP

**************************************

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In a message dated 8/30/2007 1:36:49 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

wegandy1938@... writes:

We also won't spend $1.00 a day to join an organization that might negotiate

much better working conditions for us (typical union dues). We won't spend

$0.10 a day to belong to an organization that might have a real influence on

EMS

if all 50,000 of us joined EMSAT.

I cannot begin to think of the power we could wield if 1/4 of the carded

Providers in Texas joined EMSAT.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Owner and President of LNM Emergency Services Consulting Services (LNMECS)

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Office)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Fax)

(Home Phone)

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

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OK so I have read ALOT about what everyone is saying here and I do agree with

the complaints. 24s are tough and they are not getting any better. I can

remember when we would work several in a row setting paid $60 for a 12 and no ot

we did a lot of them and it was not bad. Maybe it is just that I am getting old

and that my bones are wearing after 22yrs of the EMS abuse but they seem to be

worse and almost terrible.

OK so how do we fix it. cut 24's? then we cannot pay our bills. after all we

live on our OT. so then what happens we have to find other jobs and maybe even

other career's in an effort to make ends meet.

Again I am not saying that I want to stay on 24's but for us to get off them and

have what everyone who is not in EMS considers a " normal " life our pay levels

will have to increase for our very survival

So is there a true ends to the means???????

For what its worth

Terrell EMT-P CC...,...,...,.,....( all the other things that still mean

I am a paramedic)

RE: EMS Fatgue

When docs and nurses get paid less than $12 per hour then I will have

ompassion. Even in our rural hospital, the ER staff works 12 hours and go

ome. Our doc usually works 24 hours, nurses do a lot of preliminary work

ike ordering labs, xrays, etc. then call doc…which could take an hour or

ore. And hey…what’s better than a 3 minute power nap at 2 am?

D

_____

From: texasems-l@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:texasems-l@yahoogro ups.com] On

ehalf Of THEDUDMAN (AT) aol (DOT) com

ent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 01 08

o: texasems-l@yahoogro ups.com

ubject: Re: EMS Fatgue

What do they do with ED Docs???? After working two codes and 8 patients

oming in from an MVA around the corner....how does the ED Doc request

own-time to rest and recuperate?? What about the nurses?? What about lab,

T or radiology who not only have to run to the ED but have other duties

hroughout the hospital...how do they request down time???

Dudley

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Reverand Gandy

PREACH ON!!

You are right on the money.

Tom

Tom & Marsha LeNeveu

Paramedic, Future RN & RN

Fort Worth Texas

Email: TomMarshaLeNeveu@...

yahoo Group: Christian_Medic

Re: EMS Fatgue

Why should EMS folks have to work 24 or 48 hour shifts and count on overtime

to make a decent wage that will raise a family?

Police officers don't. Waste disposal technicians don't. Nurses don't.

Respiratory technicians don't. X-Ray techs don't.

All those folks make more money than EMS folks do.

There is no reason other than lack of funding for an essential service, EMS,

that requires EMS personnel to have to work three times more hours a week than

your postal service employee does to make the same living. And if your

postal employee doesn't deliver your mail, generally nobody dies.

Yet, our wonderful elected representatives, City Councilpersons, County

Commissioners, County Judges, State Representatives, State Senators, Governor,

Lieutenant Governor, and Commissioner of Health don't see us as being an

essential

service. So we're not. We're not needed in more than 20 counties in

Texas, and our elected officials are quite willing to outsource EMS to the

LOWEST

BIDDER, which is common practice.

God forbid that a governmental entity in Texas ought to have to fund an EMS

service as a part of its fundamental services and to have to accept

responsibility for its level of care.

Why do municipal employees in most big cities work a 40 hour week and make

more than a Paramedic and not have to risk being run over on the highway while

trying to help somebody or shot by a crazy when responding to a call?

Why do we subject the people who make the most difference in the lives of

most people to the worst working conditions of all folks who deal with

emergencies? Elevator technicians have better working conditions than EMS folks

do.

I wonder whether it is because we have very low self-esteem in our jobs. If

we truly thought we were essential to the survival of mankind, we would de

mand that we be paid for the essential services that we provide, right? But

NOOOOoooooooo! We SAY we're essential, but we cannot convince the money people

that we are, and we just accept our fate and go on doing what makes us happy

and rationalizing why we are eligible for food stamps even though we just saved

the life of the Mayor's love-child.

" I love this so much I would do it for nothing. " ----LeRoy Mushbrain, EMT

We don't organize. We don't use the most elementary methods of political

pressure to help ourselves. We just pull back into our shells and say " well,

there's nothing I can do about it. I'm just lucky to have a job. "

We pride ourselves on being aggressive, " Git 'r Done " types, but when it

comes to taking up for ourselves, making the elected dopes take notice of us,

and

standing up to the stupid, [sOMETIMES] mindless SUITS who [sOMETIMES] rule us,

we become whining, whimpering, lambs, ready for slaughter.

So we work for low pay, accept poor working conditions, don't demand benefits

such as health insurance and pensions, allow ourselves to be sent out when

we're exhausted and cannot possibly render optimum healthcare, and don't

complain because we are afraid. Afraid of being fired. And we ought to be afraid

because Texas is an " at will state, " and you can be fired for the shape of

your nose. But then you knew that, didn't you? You voted for the idiots who

passed those laws, didn't you? Or you voted against them, didn't you? OH!

You didn't vote? Well, then don't whine.

We also won't spend $1.00 a day to join an organization that might negotiate

much better working conditions for us (typical union dues). We won't spend

$0.10 a day to belong to an organization that might have a real influence on EMS

if all 50,000 of us joined EMSAT.

We are our own worst problem.

Now that I'm in Arizona, rather than Texas, I am beginning to assess the EMS

scene here, and I will be posting some comparisons for you.

So far I'm not impressed! LOL.

Gene Gandy, JD, LP

************ ********* ********* ********

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In a message dated 8/30/2007 1:37:23 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

hatfield@... writes:

I can appreciate those numbers, however (and this is a positive post believe

it or not….:)), of those, how many are already associated with a FD, and

therefore already represented by IAFF?

Just curios about that….

I am sure you are right and I will even say it is likely that a decent

percentage (no way to know how much of one I must say) of the card carrying

Providers in Texas are already Members of some type of Union (IAFF likely has

the

highest percentage of those that are members of a Union) BUT IAFF or any other

Union is NOT an association that does this kind of thing for its members as

well as the rest of EMS as a whole on a regular basis.

The job of a Union is to represent is Members period and we have already had

some debate on this list and others about how Unions are NOT the same animal

as an animal like EMSAT.

For example (and its the " ugly " one), How would the IAFF deal with the much

greater numbers of EMS Providers that are volunteer since at the highest

levels of the IAFF (International) they are anti-volunteer at minimum?

Unions have a HUGE political lobby even here in Texas which as a Yankee I

can tell you is a LOT less union friendly then say my home state of New

Jersey, they are however just a different animal then an EMSAT model.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Owner and President of LNM Emergency Services Consulting Services (LNMECS)

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Office)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Fax)

(Home Phone)

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

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Lou,

I can appreciate those numbers, however (and this is a positive post believe

it or not….:)), of those, how many are already associated with a FD, and

therefore already represented by IAFF?

Just curios about that….

Mike

Re: EMS Fatgue

In a message dated 8/30/2007 1:36:49 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

HYPERLINK " mailto:wegandy1938%40aol.com " wegandy1938@-aol.com writes:

We also won't spend $1.00 a day to join an organization that might negotiate

much better working conditions for us (typical union dues). We won't spend

$0.10 a day to belong to an organization that might have a real influence on

EMS

if all 50,000 of us joined EMSAT.

I cannot begin to think of the power we could wield if 1/4 of the carded

Providers in Texas joined EMSAT.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/-EMSI

Owner and President of LNM Emergency Services Consulting Services (LNMECS)

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/-Author/Journalis-t/Fire Protection Consultant

HYPERLINK " mailto:LNMolino%40aol.com " LNMolino (AT) aol (DOT) -com

(Cell Phone)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Office)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Fax)

(Home Phone)

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with

unless I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only

for its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by

the

original author.

************-*********-*********-******** Get a sneak peek of the all-new

AOL at

HYPERLINK

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In a message dated 8/31/2007 9:07:58 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

tmartin_emtp@... writes:

I am planning on joining EMSAT(thanks for the info Lou) and I will only be 1

more voice. But even if we as medics are able to get to a point where we

could push for a salary range that is anywhere equal to what the job should

dictate all we will do is put most of our job opportunity away.

No, thanks to YOU and to everyone that bothers to join any of the

associations that are out there supporting this kind of stuff.

If every EMSAT Member got us one more then did it again we'd have well if I

could do math well I'd be a Medic not a Basic ;)

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Owner and President of LNM Emergency Services Consulting Services (LNMECS)

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Office)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Fax)

(Home Phone)

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

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Terrell,

You score a bullseye. EMS has always seemed to be a dog-eat-dog world.

Why is that? Why is it that the working medics have tolerated the abuse

that EMS management has heaped upon them all these years without fighting back

in

any sort of cohesive way?

OK, not ALL EMS management. Henry, Andy, Dudley, you know damn well I'm not

talking about you.

But there has been so much abuse, and so little response by the troops.

What has made medics the dogs that run under the porch and hide when the

postman comes by?

Gene G.

>

> Gene

>

> Believe me when I say I agree with you We should not have to work the long

> shifts as we do It is psychotic in all aspects of the words! Unfortunately it

> is the reality. Patient care has almost taken a backseat to the bottom

> line...money.

>

> I am planning on joining EMSAT(thanks for the info Lou) and I will only be 1

> more voice. But even if we as medics are able to get to a point where we

> could push for a salary range that is anywhere equal to what the job should

> dictate all we will do is put most of our job opportunity away.

>

> Just as you stated about the lowest bidder that makes the cheapest and there

> goes the pay rate. and there goes the quality of the service as well( at

> least alot of the time)

>

> I am tired. and I would love to have a normal life like everyone else.

> Firefighting and even police make reference to themselves as a " brotherhood "

and

> they stand together. Ultimately they are municipal employees and can look at

> things from a different perspective( I am tired. and I would love to have a

> normal life like everyone else. Firefighting and even police make reference to

> themselves as a " brotherhood " and they s

>

> For what its worth

> Terrell EMT-P CC...,...,.. Terrell EMT-P CC...,...,..<wbr>

> .,.,....( all the other th

>

> Re: EMS Fatgue

>

> Why should EMS folks have to work 24 or 48 hour shifts and count on overtime

> to make a decent wage that will raise a family?

>

> Police officers don't. Waste disposal technicians don't. Nurses don't.

> Respiratory technicians don't. X-Ray techs don't.

>

> All those folks make more money than EMS folks do.

>

> There is no reason other than lack of funding for an essential service, EMS,

> that requires EMS personnel to have to work three times more hours a week

> than

> your postal service employee does to make the same living. And if your

> postal employee doesn't deliver your mail, generally nobody dies.

>

> Yet, our wonderful elected representatives, City Councilpersons, County

> Commissioners, County Judges, State Representatives, State Senators,

> Governor,

> Lieutenant Governor, and Commissioner of Health don't see us as being an

> essential

> service. So we're not. We're not needed in more than 20 counties in

> Texas, and our elected officials are quite willing to outsource EMS to the

> LOWEST

> BIDDER, which is common practice.

>

> God forbid that a governmental entity in Texas ought to have to fund an EMS

> service as a part of its fundamental services and to have to accept

> responsibility for its level of care.

>

> Why do municipal employees in most big cities work a 40 hour week and make

> more than a Paramedic and not have to risk being run over on the highway

> while

> trying to help somebody or shot by a crazy when responding to a call?

>

> Why do we subject the people who make the most difference in the lives of

> most people to the worst working conditions of all folks who deal with

> emergencies? Elevator technicians have better working conditions than EMS

> folks do.

>

> I wonder whether it is because we have very low self-esteem in our jobs. If

> we truly thought we were essential to the survival of mankind, we would de

> mand that we be paid for the essential services that we provide, right? But

> NOOOOoooooooo! We SAY we're essential, but we cannot convince the money

> people

> that we are, and we just accept our fate and go on doing what makes us happy

> and rationalizing why we are eligible for food stamps even though we just

> saved

> the life of the Mayor's love-child.

>

> " I love this so much I would do it for nothing. " ----LeRoy Mushbrain, EMT

>

> We don't organize. We don't use the most elementary methods of political

> pressure to help ourselves. We just pull back into our shells and say " well,

> there's nothing I can do about it. I'm just lucky to have a job. "

>

> We pride ourselves on being aggressive, " Git 'r Done " types, but when it

> comes to taking up for ourselves, making the elected dopes take notice of

> us, and

> standing up to the stupid, [sOMETIMES] mindless SUITS who [sOMETIMES] rule

> us,

> we become whining, whimpering, lambs, ready for slaughter.

>

> So we work for low pay, accept poor working conditions, don't demand

> benefits

> such as health insurance and pensions, allow ourselves to be sent out when

> we're exhausted and cannot possibly render optimum healthcare, and don't

> complain because we are afraid. Afraid of being fired. And we ought to be

> afraid

> because Texas is an " at will state, " and you can be fired for the shape of

> your nose. But then you knew that, didn't you? You voted for the idiots who

> passed those laws, didn't you? Or you voted against them, didn't you? OH!

> You didn't vote? Well, then don't whine.

>

> We also won't spend $1.00 a day to join an organization that might negotiate

> much better working conditions for us (typical union dues). We won't spend

> $0.10 a day to belong to an organization that might have a real influence on

> EMS

> if all 50,000 of us joined EMSAT.

>

> We are our own worst problem.

>

> Now that I'm in Arizona, rather than Texas, I am beginning to assess the EMS

> scene here, and I will be posting some comparisons for you.

>

> So far I'm not impressed! LOL.

>

> Gene Gandy, JD, LP

>

> ************ ********* ********* ********

> Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

> http://discover. aol.com/memed/ aolcom30tour

>

>

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Gene

Believe me when I say I agree with you We should not have to work the long

shifts as we do It is psychotic in all aspects of the words! Unfortunately it is

the reality. Patient care has almost taken a backseat to the bottom

line...money.

I am planning on joining EMSAT(thanks for the info Lou) and I will only be 1

more voice. But even if we as medics are able to get to a point where we could

push for a salary range that is anywhere equal to what the job should dictate

all we will do is put most of our job opportunity away.

Just as you stated about the lowest bidder that makes the cheapest and there

goes the pay rate. and there goes the quality of the service as well( at least

alot of the time)

I am tired. and I would love to have a normal life like everyone else.

Firefighting and even police make reference to themselves as a " brotherhood "

and they stand together. Ultimately they are municipal employees and can look at

things from a different perspective(even the volunteer's are accepted ) EMS has

always been (at least in my 22 yrs) been a dog eat dog world. No I don't like it

either. I do hope we can change it.

For what its worth

Terrell EMT-P CC...,...,...,.,....( all the other things that still mean

I am a paramedic)

Re: EMS Fatgue

Why should EMS folks have to work 24 or 48 hour shifts and count on overtime

to make a decent wage that will raise a family?

Police officers don't. Waste disposal technicians don't. Nurses don't.

Respiratory technicians don't. X-Ray techs don't.

All those folks make more money than EMS folks do.

There is no reason other than lack of funding for an essential service, EMS,

that requires EMS personnel to have to work three times more hours a week than

your postal service employee does to make the same living. And if your

postal employee doesn't deliver your mail, generally nobody dies.

Yet, our wonderful elected representatives, City Councilpersons, County

Commissioners, County Judges, State Representatives, State Senators, Governor,

Lieutenant Governor, and Commissioner of Health don't see us as being an

essential

service. So we're not. We're not needed in more than 20 counties in

Texas, and our elected officials are quite willing to outsource EMS to the

LOWEST

BIDDER, which is common practice.

God forbid that a governmental entity in Texas ought to have to fund an EMS

service as a part of its fundamental services and to have to accept

responsibility for its level of care.

Why do municipal employees in most big cities work a 40 hour week and make

more than a Paramedic and not have to risk being run over on the highway while

trying to help somebody or shot by a crazy when responding to a call?

Why do we subject the people who make the most difference in the lives of

most people to the worst working conditions of all folks who deal with

emergencies? Elevator technicians have better working conditions than EMS folks

do.

I wonder whether it is because we have very low self-esteem in our jobs. If

we truly thought we were essential to the survival of mankind, we would de

mand that we be paid for the essential services that we provide, right? But

NOOOOoooooooo! We SAY we're essential, but we cannot convince the money people

that we are, and we just accept our fate and go on doing what makes us happy

and rationalizing why we are eligible for food stamps even though we just saved

the life of the Mayor's love-child.

" I love this so much I would do it for nothing. " ----LeRoy Mushbrain, EMT

We don't organize. We don't use the most elementary methods of political

pressure to help ourselves. We just pull back into our shells and say " well,

there's nothing I can do about it. I'm just lucky to have a job. "

We pride ourselves on being aggressive, " Git 'r Done " types, but when it

comes to taking up for ourselves, making the elected dopes take notice of us,

and

standing up to the stupid, [sOMETIMES] mindless SUITS who [sOMETIMES] rule us,

we become whining, whimpering, lambs, ready for slaughter.

So we work for low pay, accept poor working conditions, don't demand benefits

such as health insurance and pensions, allow ourselves to be sent out when

we're exhausted and cannot possibly render optimum healthcare, and don't

complain because we are afraid. Afraid of being fired. And we ought to be afraid

because Texas is an " at will state, " and you can be fired for the shape of

your nose. But then you knew that, didn't you? You voted for the idiots who

passed those laws, didn't you? Or you voted against them, didn't you? OH!

You didn't vote? Well, then don't whine.

We also won't spend $1.00 a day to join an organization that might negotiate

much better working conditions for us (typical union dues). We won't spend

$0.10 a day to belong to an organization that might have a real influence on EMS

if all 50,000 of us joined EMSAT.

We are our own worst problem.

Now that I'm in Arizona, rather than Texas, I am beginning to assess the EMS

scene here, and I will be posting some comparisons for you.

So far I'm not impressed! LOL.

Gene Gandy, JD, LP

************ ********* ********* ********

Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

http://discover. aol.com/memed/ aolcom30tour

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For all the dogging Austin EMS seems to take on this board, they made a big move

on fatigue over a year ago and went to a primarily hybrid schedule with 80% of

the medics working two 12's and a 24 in 3 consecutive days, the 12's at a busier

urban station and the 24 at a suburban or rural station. We then have 4 days off

with overtime scheduled in the middle of the 4 days off every 3 weeks or so. We

have no more 48 hr shifts. We have a 10 hr rule so no more late holdovers as you

wait for someone to come from another station for relief. You always have fresh

relief at the station. Most medics seem to like this schedule as the last bid,

there were straight 24's open very late in the bid process. As a 26 year

veteran, my fatigue level is the lowest it has ever been. We work a 48 hr

workweek and get overtime for any hours over 40. Benefits and pay are very good

and management is changing.

Bill Needles

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In a message dated 9/8/2007 2:37:45 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

summedic@... writes:

We also won't spend $1.00 a day to join an organization that might negotiate

much better working conditions for us (typical union dues). We won't spend

$0.10 a day to belong to an organization that might have a real influence on

EMS if all 50,000 of us joined EMSAT.

It's really $ 0.10 per day pro-rated over a year.

I have said it before and I will say it again if we had 10% of the 50,000 as

members Austin would HAVE TO LISTEN for their survival. It's called politics.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Owner and President of LNM Emergency Services Consulting Services (LNMECS)

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Office)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Fax)

(Home Phone)

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

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Amen, Gene, amen.

wegandy1938@... wrote: Why should EMS folks have to work 24 or 48

hour shifts and count on overtime

to make a decent wage that will raise a family?

Police officers don't. Waste disposal technicians don't. Nurses don't.

Respiratory technicians don't. X-Ray techs don't.

All those folks make more money than EMS folks do.

There is no reason other than lack of funding for an essential service, EMS,

that requires EMS personnel to have to work three times more hours a week than

your postal service employee does to make the same living. And if your

postal employee doesn't deliver your mail, generally nobody dies.

Yet, our wonderful elected representatives, City Councilpersons, County

Commissioners, County Judges, State Representatives, State Senators, Governor,

Lieutenant Governor, and Commissioner of Health don't see us as being an

essential

service. So we're not. We're not needed in more than 20 counties in

Texas, and our elected officials are quite willing to outsource EMS to the

LOWEST

BIDDER, which is common practice.

God forbid that a governmental entity in Texas ought to have to fund an EMS

service as a part of its fundamental services and to have to accept

responsibility for its level of care.

Why do municipal employees in most big cities work a 40 hour week and make

more than a Paramedic and not have to risk being run over on the highway while

trying to help somebody or shot by a crazy when responding to a call?

Why do we subject the people who make the most difference in the lives of

most people to the worst working conditions of all folks who deal with

emergencies? Elevator technicians have better working conditions than EMS folks

do.

I wonder whether it is because we have very low self-esteem in our jobs. If

we truly thought we were essential to the survival of mankind, we would de

mand that we be paid for the essential services that we provide, right? But

NOOOOoooooooo! We SAY we're essential, but we cannot convince the money people

that we are, and we just accept our fate and go on doing what makes us happy

and rationalizing why we are eligible for food stamps even though we just saved

the life of the Mayor's love-child.

" I love this so much I would do it for nothing. " ----LeRoy Mushbrain, EMT

We don't organize. We don't use the most elementary methods of political

pressure to help ourselves. We just pull back into our shells and say " well,

there's nothing I can do about it. I'm just lucky to have a job. "

We pride ourselves on being aggressive, " Git 'r Done " types, but when it

comes to taking up for ourselves, making the elected dopes take notice of us,

and

standing up to the stupid, [sOMETIMES] mindless SUITS who [sOMETIMES] rule us,

we become whining, whimpering, lambs, ready for slaughter.

So we work for low pay, accept poor working conditions, don't demand benefits

such as health insurance and pensions, allow ourselves to be sent out when

we're exhausted and cannot possibly render optimum healthcare, and don't

complain because we are afraid. Afraid of being fired. And we ought to be afraid

because Texas is an " at will state, " and you can be fired for the shape of

your nose. But then you knew that, didn't you? You voted for the idiots who

passed those laws, didn't you? Or you voted against them, didn't you? OH!

You didn't vote? Well, then don't whine.

We also won't spend $1.00 a day to join an organization that might negotiate

much better working conditions for us (typical union dues). We won't spend

$0.10 a day to belong to an organization that might have a real influence on EMS

if all 50,000 of us joined EMSAT.

We are our own worst problem.

Now that I'm in Arizona, rather than Texas, I am beginning to assess the EMS

scene here, and I will be posting some comparisons for you.

So far I'm not impressed! LOL.

Gene Gandy, JD, LP

**************************************

Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

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In a message dated 29-Aug-07 08:11:28 Central Daylight Time,

phillipsdo@... writes:

Easy with the paint brush! No hospital I have worked in in the last 6

years even has a sleep room for ED physicians! When I need a break, I

go to the office and do push ups, sit ups, etc. The last time I slept

while working in an ED was moonlighting as a resident in 1995. I

could only sleep if no patients were in the ED!

Catching up on an old thread.

I generally only sleep if there are no 'active' patients in the ED (yes, I

work 7x24s at my primary job). A sleep room has been provided at every one of

the primary hospitals that I have worked at over the last 20 years...at least

the ones that have expected 24 hour shifts out of the docs.

ck

S. Krin, DO FAAFP

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

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