Re: Re: high cholesterol statement by lara

[Guest guest]

Hi Lara,

Can you give a link to that statement?

I have done EXTENSIVE research into my family history and cholesterol in general and have never found a definite statement such as “high cholesterol is ALWAYS a sluggish thryoid”

I would be most interested to read about that.

Thanks!

Sue

Sue and Laurel, high cholesterol is ALWAYS a sluggish thyroid. Search for high cholesterol, high liver enzymes, thyroid and the article by a doctor about that will come up somewhere. You're hypothyroid, Laurel, and you need more hormone.

Lara

Re: Re: When your spouse doesn't understand the disease...

that which my naturopath, my therapist, and yes, my husband, can

provide. Which is how I ended up here

-- laurel

I

> > would be grateful to know about it. We had couples therapy over

this

> > some time ago and it did not help to resolve the issue.

> >

> > -- laurel

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi Sue, I just read it a few weeks ago and burst out laughing.

And it was a doctor's site.

I probably didn't find it in a search engine but rather from traveling from link to link.

If I have time later I'll see if it's still in my history.

As far as extensive research goes, I subscribe to a research repository because I do some writing. But I have learned that I have to read a lot of books to have some kind of foundation against which to compare a lot of the cr*p on the web.

That is a huge statement but, after reading Peatfield, it's probably true.

You don't have to believe it.

Re: Re: When your spouse doesn't understand the disease...

that which my naturopath, my therapist, and yes, my husband, can provide. Which is how I ended up here -- laurelI> > would be grateful to know about it. We had couples therapy over this> > some time ago and it did not help to resolve the issue.> > > > -- laurel> > > >

[Guest guest]

Hi Maureen, if I find it I'll post it.

Have you read Peatfield?

If you've read Peatfield this is not a stretch because Peatfield believes that people everywhere have low functioning thyroids.

I don't know what the composite experience is of the people here, but I was told at stopthethyroidmadness.com by someone that they had found through a yahoo group that most people there didn't feel good until their free T3 scores were in the top 10% of the normal range.

If that's true, then a lot more people are "subclinical" than the current standard is indicating, because the current standard is wrong.

That's what I'm deducing from all this.

I'll try to find that link but I'm subletting my apartment, I'm out of Armour and have a crisis with that and just a little swamped.

Re: high cholesterol statement by lara

I, too, would like the cite for this, Lara. I have hereditarily high cholesterol and am under a cardiologist's care. Although being hypothyroid IS a risk factor for heart disease and high cholesterol, I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who have high cholesterol and no thyroid disease. I can think of several folks offhand.

Look forward to seeing the article/info.

Maureen Pratt

www.maureenpratt.com

Check out free AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, millions of free high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and much more.

[Guest guest]

I had to quit that yahoo group because the self-inflicted human suffering was more than I could take. I blame myself for being too trusting and taking a lot of bad advice as fact. The proverbial straw was a post from someone who was taking 8 grains of Armour and about to increase because she wasn't yet at her optimal dose. Another posted one night asking if a heart rate of 120 lying down was anything to worry about and she was told to ride it out. Scary!

I think that in some ways our bodies choose the T3 levels. Mine doesn't seem to budge from mid-range no matter how much hormone I take. My T4 goes up and down, but when my T4 was at the very top, my T3 was still in the middle. Adding Armour lowered my TSH and my T4, but the T3 stayed right in the same spot. Does anyone else have information about how our body decides how much T3 to make?

I don't know what the composite experience is of the people here, but I was told at stopthethyroidmadness.com by someone that they had found through a yahoo group that most people there didn't feel good until their free T3 scores were in the top 10% of the normal range.

Bored stiff? Loosen up...Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.

[Guest guest]

, just an FYI — when making blanket statements of fact, you will always get some of us who want/need to know the source.

Thanks!

sue

Hi Maureen, if I find it I'll post it.

Have you read Peatfield?

If you've read Peatfield this is not a stretch because Peatfield believes that people everywhere have low functioning thyroids.

I don't know what the composite experience is of the people here, but I was told at stopthethyroidmadness.com by someone that they had found through a yahoo group that most people there didn't feel good until their free T3 scores were in the top 10% of the normal range.

If that's true, then a lot more people are " subclinical " than the current standard is indicating, because the current standard is wrong.

That's what I'm deducing from all this.

I'll try to find that link but I'm subletting my apartment, I'm out of Armour and have a crisis with that and just a little swamped.

[Guest guest]

--

Why did you burst out laughing when you read it?

It’s not a matter of belief for me, it’s a matter of sound treatment.

Sue

P.s. I save belief for Santa Claus, the tooth fairy, and of course, God

Hi Sue, I just read it a few weeks ago and burst out laughing.

And it was a doctor's site.

I probably didn't find it in a search engine but rather from traveling from link to link.

If I have time later I'll see if it's still in my history.

As far as extensive research goes, I subscribe to a research repository because I do some writing. But I have learned that I have to read a lot of books to have some kind of foundation against which to compare a lot of the cr*p on the web.

That is a huge statement but, after reading Peatfield, it's probably true.

You don't have to believe it.

[Guest guest]

Judy that's really interesting about your T3 levels. I can't wait to hear what others say.

About the heartrate, I had that too and It goes down in an hour. UP down UP down.

I mean from 60 to 120, it's bizarre. The same with the blood pressure.

Lili said that once a doctor told her that when you're hypo you're supposed to have LOW blood pressure.

That makes no sense because because you're holding onto all those waste products in water between the cells and you're a prime candidate for heart failure - and THAT alone will send that blood pressure and heart rate up.

About the 8 grains... wow... but I was reading that a lot of people are taking 5-6 and that's becoming "normal" and that tells me there is something funny going on with the manufacture of the product. The company WAS bought not too long ago and I wonder if they've fiddled with the recipe to improve the "bottom line". My husband was in the food business and that was routine. Give people a 9 oz pattie instead of a 10oz and inject it with soy protein to bring it up to 10oz and keep the protein count the same.

I've been really suspicious since I heard people are taking so much more than people used to. But I'm at 3.5 with growth hormone. And I told my doctor I'm not sure I'm optimized. 8 sounds high but you know I can't run either. I was running in April but lungs don't work any more. I think maybe, Judy, you caught your problem in an earlier stage than a lot of people. I was at the gym every day, I had a personal trainer, I was a dancer and a jogger and did my own routine at home.

And I can't now. I'm really sick and so are a lot of the people I know. So who knows!

Re: Re: high cholesterol statement by lara

I had to quit that yahoo group because the self-inflicted human suffering was more than I could take. I blame myself for being too trusting and taking a lot of bad advice as fact. The proverbial straw was a post from someone who was taking 8 grains of Armour and about to increase because she wasn't yet at her optimal dose. Another posted one night asking if a heart rate of 120 lying down was anything to worry about and she was told to ride it out. Scary!

I think that in some ways our bodies choose the T3 levels. Mine doesn't seem to budge from mid-range no matter how much hormone I take. My T4 goes up and down, but when my T4 was at the very top, my T3 was still in the middle. Adding Armour lowered my TSH and my T4, but the T3 stayed right in the same spot. Does anyone else have information about how our body decides how much T3 to make?

I don't know what the composite experience is of the people here, but I was told at stopthethyroidmadness.com by someone that they had found through a yahoo group that most people there didn't feel good until their free T3 scores were in the top 10% of the normal range.

Bored stiff? Loosen up...Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.

[Guest guest]

Sue, writers never give their sources. It's totally up to you to do with it what you want.

I have no obligation - and sharing what I know that can hwl

Re: Re: high cholesterol statement by lara

, just an FYI — when making blanket statements of fact, you will always get some of us who want/need to know the source.Thanks!sueOn 2/21/07 2:14 PM, "" <lauraparis22 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:

Hi Maureen, if I find it I'll post it.Have you read Peatfield? If you've read Peatfield this is not a stretch because Peatfield believes that people everywhere have low functioning thyroids.I don't know what the composite experience is of the people here, but I was told at stopthethyroidmadness.com by someone that they had found through a yahoo group that most people there didn't feel good until their free T3 scores were in the top 10% of the normal range.If that's true, then a lot more people are "subclinical" than the current standard is indicating, because the current standard is wrong.That's what I'm deducing from all this. I'll try to find that link but I'm subletting my apartment, I'm out of Armour and have a crisis with that and just a little swamped.

[Guest guest]

Thanks , there is a lot of sound thinking there. I'm not sure what stage I was in when I was finally diagnosed, but my TSH was 62.0 and I had symptoms up the wazoo. In hindsight of symptoms, they figure my thyroid went hypo around age 8 and I wasn't diagnosed until I was 18 and I've been on hormone now for 36 years. You can do the math if you like LOL. I guess that's why I attribute some things more to aging than I do to my thyroid. My numbers are better than ever, but I've had to do other things to control my weight, moods, energy etc. With that much experience behind me, I can't just assume that every new thing is somehow thyroid related, so I generally look elsewhere first. I got rid of the fatigue by cutting out the sugar and moving more, so there were obviously other factors involved. Maybe my thyroid doesn't metabolize the sugar or something similar, but it was easier for me to fix the other issue.

I really don't like the hyper thing and I can't stand my heart rate going up and down all day. And the hot flashes and night sweats were really disruptive. That's why I quit the Armour. As natural as it may be, I can't imagine that type of instability being normal. That is just my opinion and something that I wasn't personally willing to push through. That can't be good for my heart and I just didn't like the feeling. The bottom line was that I felt worse than I did on the T4, so I switched back and now I'm feeling pretty good most days.

8 grains is way above replacement dose and I'm really not sure what they're waiting for. I just didn't want you to take what you read there as gospel, because some of the information is very one sided.

Have a good one... Judy

I think maybe, Judy, you caught your problem in an earlier stage than a lot of people. I was at the gym every day, I had a personal trainer, I was a dancer and a jogger and did my own routine at home.

Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.

[Guest guest]

,

I have no idea what the heck you are talking about – are you stating you plan to just

throw out blanket medical statements pertaining to our health and sit there, as you say, laughing?

Interesting approach you have.

sue

Sue, writers never give their sources. It's totally up to you to do with it what you want.

I have no obligation - and sharing what I know that can hwl

[Guest guest]

I wonder if it depends how long you have been undiagnosed....I calculated with me it was at least 20 years.

I am on 6 and 1/2 grains and my labs are great, and I'm not hyper at all..........Meleese in Oz xxx

----- Original Message -----

From: Judy P

8 grains is way above replacement dose and I'm really not sure what they're waiting for. I just didn't want you to take what you read there as gospel, because some of the information is very one sided.

Have a good one... Judy

I think maybe, Judy, you caught your problem in an earlier stage than a lot of people. I was at the gym every day, I had a personal trainer, I was a dancer and a jogger and did my own routine at home.

[Guest guest]

8 grains.. damn... I mean if it worked great... but damn.. LOL.

Re: Re: high cholesterol statement by lara

I had to quit that yahoo group because the self-inflicted human suffering was more than I could take. I blame myself for being too trusting and taking a lot of bad advice as fact. The proverbial straw was a post from someone who was taking 8 grains of Armour and about to increase because she wasn't yet at her optimal dose. Another posted one night asking if a heart rate of 120 lying down was anything to worry about and she was told to ride it out. Scary!

I think that in some ways our bodies choose the T3 levels. Mine doesn't seem to budge from mid-range no matter how much hormone I take. My T4 goes up and down, but when my T4 was at the very top, my T3 was still in the middle. Adding Armour lowered my TSH and my T4, but the T3 stayed right in the same spot. Does anyone else have information about how our body decides how much T3 to make?

I don't know what the composite experience is of the people here, but I was told at stopthethyroidmadness.com by someone that they had found through a yahoo group that most people there didn't feel good until their free T3 scores were in the top 10% of the normal range.

Bored stiff? Loosen up...Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.

[Guest guest]

TSH was 62??? Then I'd say you were well along! :-)

36 years? OH!

This makes me want to switch to T4 because it sounds like you are doing well. And that really encourages me, then, that you're running again. My lungs HURT so badly. I am going to pretend it's just being out of shape and maybe it will go away.

What I really want to do is try T4 with Armour because I read a doctor saying that that the pig's thyroid was very close but that humans made much more T4!

I don't want to give up armour because of the calcitonin. What a difference I feel in my bones. And we don't know what else those other hormones and things we haven't discovered yet do. (Jonathon ) But it certainly sounds like it would be worth trying the T4 in addition.

I can't believe what you went through with your heart! I'm so sorry! That has gone away as i approach optimal levels. But I don't go by blood test because I don't know how much is actually getting into the cells. Dr. Peatfield talks about a - I think it's a urine test that is kind of pricey but that will show pretty definitively how much is actually making it into the cells.

Since I don't want to spend the money I just watch symptoms and increase and decrease as I need to.

The other thing I learned from Deb and at that other forum.... I had started to walk again 4-5 miles a day, lots of stairs, and after just a few days of this I crashed for a week. I got immediately suicidally depressed, hair started falling out, I cried all day and could hardly move - so obviously hypo.

I crawled to that forum and Deb said that since the thyroid isn't producing more automatically when I use it up, I just use it up and have to take more myself. So I figure I have to be my thyroid. Sometimes the symptoms of using it up aren't evident until a week later. We seem to keep a few days worth of reserves - do you know anything about that?

A woman there told me how she walked every day for a week and then was in bed for two weeks.

So when we talk about a replacement dose, my thought is that if I get active again my replacement dose is going to be higher. If it's Cold AND I'm active I need even more. But if I just sit here and work at a computer and do housework, it'll be 3. That worked fine this winter if I wore a wool sweater all day and didn't go out!! (Oh man....fun fun fun...)

I don't know about the 8 grains. I was thinking about it last night because I don't doubt her and I wonder if that was a really big woman. I met a woman there who was 185 pounds and 6ft tall and hearing all the weight gain stories I imagine being well over 200 lbs is not uncommon with this problem. I don't know if you need more when you're bigger, it works that way with vitamins and drugs so it seems reasonable.

But you're right about the other hormones certainly playing a role... . I started growth hormone and I immediately stopped getting sick. Immediately. The next day. And I started DHEA because of adrenal problems which helps with energy, and then my ovaries just quit, no perimenopause, so I started replacement progesterone and estradiol (want to get on bioidentical hormones) and my periods started again and as you said... these other hormones solved some of the symptoms to a degree.

But the thyroid is a master gland so it's possible that behind all of that was the thyroid which caused problems with them all when it went south. I learned later that growth hormone augments thyroid hormone by 30% at the dose I was taking.

That's enough for today! First cup of coffee I'm always a motor mouth! I'm sorry if I bored you . I certainly hope that the people who were rude last night and were not here to share and get help, but only to pick fights, cause trouble and be mean are gone.

Thanks, Judy!

Re: Re: high cholesterol statement by lara

Thanks , there is a lot of sound thinking there. I'm not sure what stage I was in when I was finally diagnosed, but my TSH was 62.0 and I had symptoms up the wazoo. In hindsight of symptoms, they figure my thyroid went hypo around age 8 and I wasn't diagnosed until I was 18 and I've been on hormone now for 36 years. You can do the math if you like LOL. I guess that's why I attribute some things more to aging than I do to my thyroid. My numbers are better than ever, but I've had to do other things to control my weight, moods, energy etc. With that much experience behind me, I can't just assume that every new thing is somehow thyroid related, so I generally look elsewhere first. I got rid of the fatigue by cutting out the sugar and moving more, so there were obviously other factors involved. Maybe my thyroid doesn't metabolize the sugar or something similar, but it was easier for me to fix the other issue.

I really don't like the hyper thing and I can't stand my heart rate going up and down all day. And the hot flashes and night sweats were really disruptive. That's why I quit the Armour. As natural as it may be, I can't imagine that type of instability being normal. That is just my opinion and something that I wasn't personally willing to push through. That can't be good for my heart and I just didn't like the feeling. The bottom line was that I felt worse than I did on the T4, so I switched back and now I'm feeling pretty good most days.

8 grains is way above replacement dose and I'm really not sure what they're waiting for. I just didn't want you to take what you read there as gospel, because some of the information is very one sided.

Have a good one... Judy

I think maybe, Judy, you caught your problem in an earlier stage than a lot of people. I was at the gym every day, I had a personal trainer, I was a dancer and a jogger and did my own routine at home.

Get your own web address.Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.

[Guest guest]

Judy, When you were young (age 8) did you have a problem with you iron level, nose bleeds, passing out or any other problems. Because when I was 8 and up until I had my 1st child I did. When I was carring my 1st child they had to give me B12, my 2nd they gave me iron shoots. I just think I may have always had a problem with my thyroid and it was not found until was 40. I'm 47 now. KarolJudy P wrote: Thanks , there is a lot of sound thinking there. I'm not sure what stage I was in when I was finally diagnosed, but my TSH was 62.0 and I had symptoms up the wazoo. In hindsight of symptoms, they figure my thyroid went hypo around age 8 and I wasn't diagnosed until I was 18 and I've been on hormone now for 36 years. You can do the math if you like LOL. I guess that's why I attribute some things more to aging than I do to my thyroid. My numbers are better than ever, but I've had to do other things to control my weight, moods, energy etc. With that much experience behind me, I can't just assume that every new thing is somehow thyroid related, so I generally look elsewhere first. I got rid of the fatigue by cutting out the sugar and moving more, so there were obviously other factors involved. Maybe my thyroid doesn't metabolize the sugar or something similar, but it was easier for me to fix the other

issue. I really don't like the hyper thing and I can't stand my heart rate going up and down all day. And the hot flashes and night sweats were really disruptive. That's why I quit the Armour. As natural as it may be, I can't imagine that type of instability being normal. That is just my opinion and something that I wasn't personally willing to push through. That can't be good for my heart and I just didn't like the feeling. The bottom line was that I felt worse than I did on the T4, so I switched back and now I'm feeling pretty good most days. 8 grains is way above replacement dose and I'm really not sure what they're waiting for. I just

didn't want you to take what you read there as gospel, because some of the information is very one sided. Have a good one... Judy I think maybe, Judy, you caught your problem in an earlier stage than a lot of people. I was at the gym every day, I had a personal trainer, I was a dancer and a jogger and did my own routine at home. Get your own web address.Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.

Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.

[Guest guest]

No, I did not have a problem with any of those things. From 8-18, my symptoms were as classic as they come and that's how we could trace it back in hindsight. I had the weight gain, despite living in a pre-junk food era, and severely dry and frizzy hair. My skin was dry and burned easily, but the most compelling symptom was the constant relentless constipation. Our medicine cabinet was full of metamucil, suppositories and exlax and none of them really helped. I also had trouble concentrating in school and could not seem to muster grades that were in line with my IQ (post medication I finished college with a 3.98 GPA). So, I was basically a chubby, lazy, under achiever with kinky, frizzy hair who spent a few hours a week crying on the toilet. LOL, what a delight! No wonder I still have issues.

I was diagnosed and treated at age 18, but still battled some of these things because I didn't really get the connection between the condition and the symptoms, and didn't always have/take the medication. I've been treated now though for probably 25 years straight... JudyP

When you were young (age 8) did you have a problem with you iron level, nose bleeds, passing out or any other problems.

Don't pick lemons.

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