potty training help

[Guest guest]

ok how do you get them to understand potty training? i have 3 year

old twin girls that are just now learning to sit on the potty but

they won't do anything., they don't tell me when they are wet or

went poo. Amie knows how to say poo poo and pee pee but won't tell

me at all. does not know how to say it either. they both

have verbal and oral apraxia with kimberly with the severe but she

is coming along. i'm just trying to figure how to do this. i know

they must feel uncomfy but they won't tell me. at their preschool

they are just sitting on the toilet also. thanks for any advice.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

For both of my boys (now 6 and 3 years old) I trained them first for pooping in

the

potty then peeing. Pooping was easy -- I emptied their poopy diapers into their

potty

-- while they watched (they were both fascinated that I would do such a thing)

-- and

told them that that's where their poop goes, and that they need to put their

poop in

the potty. For peeing we let them run around with no pants on so they didn't

have

the distraction of cloth on their bottoms. We've also done rewards (stickers,

M & Ms)

and drinking lots of fluids. The latest thing that works is to have our dog

(yep, that's

right) come into the bathroom with Jonah -- he gets a total gas out of that and

has

MUCH better success getting to the potty with her around.

Jonah, who is apraxic, hypotonic, SID still has issues getting there on time and

telling

us that he needs to go. But he knows where he's supposed to go (and gets there

100% of the time when he has no pants on).

Hope you have good luck!!!

Spencer (mom to Jonah and Tucker)

>

>

> ok how do you get them to understand potty training? i have 3 year

> old twin girls that are just now learning to sit on the potty but

> they won't do anything., they don't tell me when they are wet or

> went poo. Amie knows how to say poo poo and pee pee but won't tell

> me at all. does not know how to say it either. they both

> have verbal and oral apraxia with kimberly with the severe but she

> is coming along. i'm just trying to figure how to do this. i know

> they must feel uncomfy but they won't tell me. at their preschool

> they are just sitting on the toilet also. thanks for any advice.

[Guest guest]

Hi Jim and Ann,

Is there any way to keep your son in preschool one extra year prior to starting

kindergarten? Please let me know if you need me to repost on this as there is

research funded by our US Dept of Ed on reasons to withhold kindergarten until 6

if the child isn't ready. Not being potty trained at 5 is to me a great reason

to give him another year. Actually here's our http://www.apraxia.org page on

this

Research: Reason to delay kindergarten

http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=115029735601 & topic=8863

Have you taken him to a pediatric gastroenterologist to rule out there are any

physical reasons for the delay? I found myself that even if not autistic that

this was one area where behavioral approaches did come in really handy as well.

I have some archives below that are geared mainly for children that are late 3

to 4 years old as most train in this group around then. But again please share

a bit more about your child.

I can't recommend a pediatric gastroenterologist in NYC but there are so many

there. Or you could call Dr. Marilyn Agin's office (she's in the Tribeca area)

and get a recommendation? But I'd start with that first.

As PDD isn't really a diagnosis, (in my opinion) what are your son's symptoms?

Who diagnosed your child? What placement and therapy is your child receiving?

There are many children that don't have enough of the symptoms to be diagnosed

autistic but since some professionals note late talking and sensory issues they

use the PDD or PDD NOS label- but in reality all apraxic children could fall

under that if we took our child to a professional who just used a checklist

approach to diagnosis. You want to know does your child have autism and is it

mild? Is there also a diagnosis of any speech impairment apart from the autism

diagnosis if autistic? Any cognitive or receptive impairments? (that one is

tricky and I'd get an expert to evaluate your child at this point because if he

has not been receiving appropriate therapy that could affect some of the scoring

due to shutting down/frustration etc. Autism therapy or specifically ABA is not

appropriate for a child that has apraxia. If autistic and apraxic then the

modified ABA should only be used to address areas outside of the motor planning

deficits. Too many kids are misdiagnosed with autism today I can tell you that

for sure -and the PDD label is big time for blame because it's the shadow

diagnosis for those that don't quite fit into the true autism box. Again in my

opinion. Then again I know there is at least one expert that agrees with me

-Dr. Rimland

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

Written by Bernard Rimland, Ph.D. Autism Research Institute

Autism Research Review International, 1993, Vol. 7, No. 2,

Plain Talk about PDD and the Diagnosis of Autism

Let's start with the obvious: the label PDD (Pervasive Developmental Disorder)

is a poorly understood, uninformative, confusing, disliked, and should be

abandoned. The sooner the better. In fact, it should never have been adopted in

the first place.

Over the years I have talked and corresponded with thousands of parents who have

told me their child " has PDD. " I often respond by saying something like, " Your

child doesn't have PDD. There is no such thing as PDD. Your child may be

autistic, or have a condition like autism, or many characteristics of autism,

but he doesn't have PDD because there is no such thing. PDD is a label concocted

by psychiatrists to cover up the fact that they don't know what your child does

have. "

If any parents have been distressed by this blunt, unexpected harangue on my

part, I would be surprised. The vast majority seem relieved to at last hear

someone giving them straight talk about PDD. Parents live with their child 24

hours a day, 7 days a week. These parents realize that their handicapped child

will in all likelihood be the central focus of their lives for the rest of their

lives. They want to know the truth, insofar as the truth is known. They don't

want to be misled or misinformed by sugar-coated verbiage masquerading as

informed fact. If we don't know the right label for their child, let's tell them

that up front, rather than hide our ignorance behind the mystique of a

pseudo-scientific label, presuming knowledge we don't have, like PDD.

I am very much aware that creating suitable names for " psychiatric " or

" behavioral " disorders is a difficult and thankless task. Look at what we have

now: Schizophrenia is Greek for " split mind. " Mental retardation is a euphemism

for low intelligence. Hyperactivity merely describes what everyone knows too

well--the person is too active. Autistic means " day dreaming. "

Until we know what causes these things we are stuck with using a somewhat

descriptive term to characterize them. I'll agree to that, as a matter of

necessity, but where does PDD come in?

The passage of time has led to widespread usage of the terms, schizophrenia,

mental retardation and autism. There is little or no likelihood that PDD will be

afforded similar acceptance.

In the Autism Research Review International (ARRI) (1991, Vol. 5, No. 2), we

summarized an excellent statement, signed by 16 prominent European and U.S.

professionals in the field of autism, titled " Autism is not necessarily a

pervasive developmental disorder. " The authors noted that although the term PDD

was introduced well over a decade ago, it has not really caught on, and is

unfamiliar not only to lay people, but to the politicians and administrators,

most of whom--thanks probably to Rain Man--are aware of autism. The article

observes that the term " pervasive " is particularly inappropriate, since severely

retarded persons, many of whom have chromosomal defects which affect every cell

in their bodies. Autism, they point out, rather than being a pervasive disorder,

is in fact a specific one, characterized by deficits in social and cognitive

functioning.

Quite apart from the misleading and inappropriate semantics of the term PDD is a

practical matter: autistic children and adults unfortunate enough to have the

PDD affixed to them have often been--and continue to be--excluded from programs

and services designated for those with autism, and which would benefit them.

Clearly, the PDD designation, along with its cumbersome bureaucratic baggage

(i.e., PDD-NOS: " Not Otherwise Specified " ) should be relegated to the Archives

of Failed Attempts, where it will have plenty of company, while we go on about

our business.

There are many more children with autistic-like disorders than there are

children with autism itself. When I founded the Autism Society of America in

1965, I urged, and my recommendation was followed for many years, that all ASA

stationery, brochures, and other printed materials carry the wording " Dedicated

to the welfare of all children (later 'children and adults') with severe

disorders of communication and behavior. " The need for an encompassing title for

this group was evident even then.

Of the various labels that have been suggested, the one I like best is " autistic

spectrum disorder, " which, I believe, was first suggested by Wing and Gould in

1979. The advantages of this term are obvious. For one, it acknowledges that

there is a range of problems and of subtypes, and it does not pretentiously

claim to be based on knowledge that is not yet available to us.

At the Autism Research Institute we have been working for over a quarter of a

century on the development of more objective scientific means of diagnosing

children with autism and related disorders.

When my book Infantile Autism was published in 1964, it contained, as an

appendix, a checklist designated " Form E-1 " (E for experimental). Within a year

E-1 was replaced by the Form E-2. As of June 1993, the Autism Research Institute

has collected over 16,800 E-2 forms, completed by parents of autistic and

possibly-autistic children in over 50 countries. (Form E-2 is available in eight

languages.)

Form E-2 is designed for completion by the child's parents, and asks questions

about the child's early development and about language and behavior through age

five an a half. (After age five an a half, autistic children begin to change in

many ways, so it is better to rely on behavior prior to that age.) Once we

receive a completed E-2 form from a parent or professional, we enter the data

into our computer, derive a score which tells the child's position to the

continuum ranging from " classical autistic " at one end to " not autistic " on the

other, and mail a report to the sender. We have performed this service, free of

charge, for well over a quarter of a century for thousands of parents and

professionals world-wide. (Readers of the ARRI are invited to request E-2 forms

and avail themselves of this free service.)

A major purpose of this effort is to collect data for statistical analysis.

There is no doubt that the " spectrum of autistic disorders " contains numerous

subtypes, some of which are large enough to be identified by as our database of

almost 17,000 E-2 Forms. We are already aware of some of these types, such as

classical--Kanner's Syndrome--autism, fragile X autism, Rett syndrome, and

candida-caused autism. My colleague, Dr. Edelson and I are conducting

factor analyses and cluster analyses of the E-2 database, in order to identify

and characterize these and other subtypes. The database is large enough so that

subtypes identified by cluster analysis within one segment of the database can

be confirmed by cross-validation on E-2 data which was not used in the original

identification of subtypes.

As this work advances we will report on progress in the ARRI, and in other

places. Subtypes identified through this means of statistical analysis can be

validated in a number of ways, independent of the E-2 database, including family

history variables, clinical laboratory tests, and differential responses to

drugs and other treatments. It is thus hoped to place the diagnosis--as well as

the treatment--of " autistic " children and adults on a more scientific basis. I

believe that progress in this field will proceed faster if we rely on the

identification of subgroups through the analysis of statistical data, rather

than on constructs based on speculation, conjecture, surmise and subjective

impressions.

In the meantime, let's get rid of " PDD! "

This article appeared in the Autism Research Review International, Vol. 7 (2),

1993. The Autism Research Review International is a quarterly newsletter

published by the Autism Research Institute (4182 Avenue, San Diego, CA

92116, U.S.A.).

http://www.marshall.edu/wvasdr/old_site/plain_ta.pdf

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

START OF POTTY TRAINING ARCHIVES

Re: Potty Training Problems

The following are archives from here, articles from the web -and a link to our

apraxia.org facebook page on this very common topic -hope between all the

suggestions something works for you soon!

Re: Potty training a non-verbal 3 year old

Most in this group potty train by " late three or early four " .

Here's an archive on this topic:

From: " kiddietalk " <kiddietalk@...>

Date: Tue May 17, 2005 10:02 pm

Subject: Re: potty training kiddietalk

Whomever first posted that they have some new (and improved?) potty

training tips that worked, Jan? Please just post it here so all

can see. Late to potty train is pretty par for the course in this

group ...actually for many kids today in general for some reason.

For those that want archived info -here's one

From: " kiddietalk " <kiddietalk@...>

Date: Wed Oct 22, 2003 11:20 pm

Subject: Re: Potty Training - not till 5 y/o????

In this group it's not unusual for our children not to potty train

till late three or early four (overall) due to low tone. Not sure

which group five is normal in?

I just posted recently that even " normal " kids are training late

today, but am too fried to find the post (must be under a different

subject which is why subject titles are important) So searched quick

and found these links on it at google

Lots more out there -may want to cut and paste links

[Guest guest]

Here is a link you might be interested in. I found it when doing research for my

5 yo who is not potty trained yet:

http://teacch.com/educational-approaches/applying-structured-teaching-principles\

-to-toilet-training-susan-boswell-and-debbie-gray

Buckwalter

>

> Hello everyone:

>

> We are primarily lurkers on this site but have a question we hope you can help

with. Our 5 year old boy (PDD-NOS) is not potty trained and is showing no

inclination to it at all. We've tried the usual tricks of putting him on a

schedule, positive reinforcement with rewards, putting him in underwear so he

would feel being wet or dirty or usually both; nothing has had any lasting

effect. We're concerned not only for the mess but for 's school placement

for kindergarten this September. It seems he can't tell when he has to go to the

bathroom and he does not mind sitting in his own waste. We don't know at this

point if this is a sensory issue, behavioral issue or medical condition or just

immaturity. Does anyone have any recommendations on approaches to help ? Or

any doctors/professionals in the NY metro area that may be able to assist us?

>

>

> Thank you so much!

>

> Jim and Ann

>

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I went to the workshop below and it was very helpful.

http://www.resourcesnyc.org/event/toilet-training-made-easy-manhattan-english

Yoko

> >

> > Hello everyone:

> >

> > We are primarily lurkers on this site but have a question we hope you can

help with. Our 5 year old boy (PDD-NOS) is not potty trained and is

showing no inclination to it at all. We've tried the usual tricks of putting him

on a schedule, positive reinforcement with rewards, putting him in underwear so

he would feel being wet or dirty or usually both; nothing has had any lasting

effect. We're concerned not only for the mess but for 's school placement

for kindergarten this September. It seems he can't tell when he has to go to the

bathroom and he does not mind sitting in his own waste. We don't know at this

point if this is a sensory issue, behavioral issue or medical condition or just

immaturity. Does anyone have any recommendations on approaches to help ? Or

any doctors/professionals in the NY metro area that may be able to assist us?

> >

> >

> > Thank you so much!

> >

> > Jim and Ann

> >

>