Guest guest Posted January 16, 2007 Report Share Posted January 16, 2007 Hi can anyone let me know if there is a web site or possibly when the date of EMStock is this year? Thanks. Hudson wrote: Your local ISD probably teaches it also... >>> " RE Dodson " 1/16/2007 12:01 pm >>> You might want to check out the PMAB (Preventive Management of Agressive Behavior) course that is taught in the state hospitals. It was developed to teach employees to deal with being attacked by clients in a psychotic state without resorting to physical harm. It could easily be modified to fit the needs inside a rig etc. I used it when I worked at Wichita Falls State Hospital and in a couple of drunk situtaions with good results . It is a good tool to use when confronted with a potentially explosive situation. I can't get to the site at TD MHMR but the class is being taught across the country. It is worth checking out. http://www.mindsetconsulting.net/companyprofile.htm Raina > >Reply-To: texasems-l >To: <texasems-l > >Subject: RE: Personal Defense >Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 11:17:20 -0600 > >Mike: Your post raises pertinent questions. In the " Yeah, But Can You >Defend It? " class at the EMS Conference in Dallas, they discussed a case >where a medic and patient became involved in an altercation which >resulted in the medic striking the patient and breaking the patient's >jaw. Of course, the medic was found to be at fault (as I remember - >maybe Wes could post the case.) It's a fine line between self-defense >and assault. Most of the time it seems that you have to show that you >took steps to get away from the imminent attack or took defensive >measures at least. I agree with your assessment that a " Mag Light " >defense on the part of the medic would probably occur, since I have >heard of that happening. Our people are naturally inclined toward >controlling the scene and the patient if they present a threat of harm >to themselves. Some in our field have VERY LARGE egos that would not be >inclined to retreat if threatened. Some EMS people(;P) are also law >enforcement officers which also complicates things. > >We have recently changed medical directors and are discussing a >self-defense component to be given to our personnel at the time we >verify skills such as airway when we hold a training class in March. > >Lt. Steve Lemming, AAS, LP >EMS Administration Officer >C-Shift >Azle, Texas Fire Department > >This e-mail is confidential and intended solely for the use of the >individual (s) to whom it is addressed. Any views or opinions presented >are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of >The City of Azle or its policies. If you have received this e-mail >message in error, please phone Steve Lemming (817)444-7108. Please also >destroy and delete the message from your computer. > >For more information on The City of Azle, visit our web site at: ><http://azle.govoffice.com/> > > > > > > > > > > Personal Defense > > > > The reason that I brought this up in the first place is the >civilian > availability of the C2, a " personal taser " (yes, with darts, not >just > a stun gun) and the price point of $300, which makes it VERY > affordable. It's pretty likely that we'll see more and more of > these used, and the police officer in me worries that we'll see >more > deadly-force encounters because of it (an officer threatened >with a > taser will likely be deadly force as the taser can incapacitate >an > officer leaving them vulnerable). > > Then, too, there's the issue of personal safety for medics. >Sure, > medics shouldn't be getting into situations where they need >tasers in > the first place, and should have adequate protection on scene. >We > also know that's not always the case and that situations evolve > quickly. I don't know that it's completely unreasonable to >consider > providing medics with tasers and training, and adopting policies >for > personal defense and retreat. > > If you think you're not liable and that your medics won't use >their > Maglite/Streamlight, handheld radio and/or their LP12 as an >impact > weapon when/if threatened, you're very, very mistaken. Most >medics > carry pocket knives (as rescue tools/utility knives) already, >and I > doubt that many EMS organizations have policies and procedures >in > place for personal defense in deadly situations. I don't know of >any > that provide any sort of training for physical engagements (not >to > subdue anyone, but to break holds, hit that orange button on the > > radio, and run like hell), but I do remember a class at a >conference > YEARS ago that touched on that aspect - but never saw any follow >up. > > Just a thought... > > Mike > > On Jan 14, 2007, at 11:50 PM, rachfoote@... ><mailto:rachfoote%40aol.com> wrote: > > > Reply to those overly concerned about taser barbs. > > > > I will send the protocol via texasems-I this Tuesday. As we >always > > agree, > > protocols are guidelines. Depending on the gene pool of our >medics > > each week, > > we re-evaluate all of our protocols on a weekly basis. > > Sometimes even on a daily basis. Come on guys, it is a taser >barb, > > not a > > harpoon. We are smart enough to use our good judgement on each > > > removal call. > > Anyone that cannot make that judgement usually doesn't work >for me > > that long. > > > > I wear a size 8 on Monday and it goes down to a 7 1/4 by >Friday. > > Thanks for > > asking Dudley. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2007 Report Share Posted January 16, 2007 We are in negotiations with a funder and looking at the Fall if there is still interest. BEB _____ From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On Behalf Of jo miller Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 3:50 PM To: texasems-l Subject: EMStock Hi can anyone let me know if there is a web site or possibly when the date of EMStock is this year? Thanks. Hudson <mhudson@mesquiteisd <mailto:mhudson%40mesquiteisd.org> .org> wrote: Your local ISD probably teaches it also... >>> " RE Dodson " <tropicrain2005@ <mailto:tropicrain2005%40hotmail.com> hotmail.com> 1/16/2007 12:01 pm >>> You might want to check out the PMAB (Preventive Management of Agressive Behavior) course that is taught in the state hospitals. It was developed to teach employees to deal with being attacked by clients in a psychotic state without resorting to physical harm. It could easily be modified to fit the needs inside a rig etc. I used it when I worked at Wichita Falls State Hospital and in a couple of drunk situtaions with good results . It is a good tool to use when confronted with a potentially explosive situation. I can't get to the site at TD MHMR but the class is being taught across the country. It is worth checking out. http://www.mindsetc <http://www.mindsetconsulting.net/companyprofile.htm> onsulting.net/companyprofile.htm Raina >From: " Lemming, Steve " <slemming (AT) ci (DOT) <mailto:slemming%40ci.azle.tx.us> azle.tx.us> >Reply-To: texasems-l@yahoogro <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com> ups.com >To: <texasems-l@yahoogro <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com> ups.com> >Subject: RE: Personal Defense >Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 11:17:20 -0600 > >Mike: Your post raises pertinent questions. In the " Yeah, But Can You >Defend It? " class at the EMS Conference in Dallas, they discussed a case >where a medic and patient became involved in an altercation which >resulted in the medic striking the patient and breaking the patient's >jaw. Of course, the medic was found to be at fault (as I remember - >maybe Wes could post the case.) It's a fine line between self-defense >and assault. Most of the time it seems that you have to show that you >took steps to get away from the imminent attack or took defensive >measures at least. I agree with your assessment that a " Mag Light " >defense on the part of the medic would probably occur, since I have >heard of that happening. Our people are naturally inclined toward >controlling the scene and the patient if they present a threat of harm >to themselves. Some in our field have VERY LARGE egos that would not be >inclined to retreat if threatened. Some EMS people(;P) are also law >enforcement officers which also complicates things. > >We have recently changed medical directors and are discussing a >self-defense component to be given to our personnel at the time we >verify skills such as airway when we hold a training class in March. > >Lt. Steve Lemming, AAS, LP >EMS Administration Officer >C-Shift >Azle, Texas Fire Department > >This e-mail is confidential and intended solely for the use of the >individual (s) to whom it is addressed. Any views or opinions presented >are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of >The City of Azle or its policies. If you have received this e-mail >message in error, please phone Steve Lemming (817)444-7108. Please also >destroy and delete the message from your computer. > >For more information on The City of Azle, visit our web site at: ><http://azle. <http://azle.govoffice.com/> govoffice.com/> > > > > > > > > > > Personal Defense > > > > The reason that I brought this up in the first place is the >civilian > availability of the C2, a " personal taser " (yes, with darts, not >just > a stun gun) and the price point of $300, which makes it VERY > affordable. It's pretty likely that we'll see more and more of > these used, and the police officer in me worries that we'll see >more > deadly-force encounters because of it (an officer threatened >with a > taser will likely be deadly force as the taser can incapacitate >an > officer leaving them vulnerable). > > Then, too, there's the issue of personal safety for medics. >Sure, > medics shouldn't be getting into situations where they need >tasers in > the first place, and should have adequate protection on scene. >We > also know that's not always the case and that situations evolve > quickly. I don't know that it's completely unreasonable to >consider > providing medics with tasers and training, and adopting policies >for > personal defense and retreat. > > If you think you're not liable and that your medics won't use >their > Maglite/Streamlight, handheld radio and/or their LP12 as an >impact > weapon when/if threatened, you're very, very mistaken. Most >medics > carry pocket knives (as rescue tools/utility knives) already, >and I > doubt that many EMS organizations have policies and procedures >in > place for personal defense in deadly situations. I don't know of >any > that provide any sort of training for physical engagements (not >to > subdue anyone, but to break holds, hit that orange button on the > > radio, and run like hell), but I do remember a class at a >conference > YEARS ago that touched on that aspect - but never saw any follow >up. > > Just a thought... > > Mike > > On Jan 14, 2007, at 11:50 PM, rachfoote (AT) aol (DOT) <mailto:rachfoote%40aol.com> com ><mailto:rachfoote%40aol.com> wrote: > > > Reply to those overly concerned about taser barbs. > > > > I will send the protocol via texasems-I this Tuesday. As we >always > > agree, > > protocols are guidelines. Depending on the gene pool of our >medics > > each week, > > we re-evaluate all of our protocols on a weekly basis. > > Sometimes even on a daily basis. Come on guys, it is a taser >barb, > > not a > > harpoon. We are smart enough to use our good judgement on each > > > removal call. > > Anyone that cannot make that judgement usually doesn't work >for me > > that long. > > > > I wear a size 8 on Monday and it goes down to a 7 1/4 by >Friday. > > Thanks for > > asking Dudley. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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