Guest guest Posted March 24, 2006 Report Posted March 24, 2006 I prefer, " I smelled an aromatic odor consistent with that of an alcoholic beverage. " Not that that's better, it's just what I use. gg E.(Gene) GandyJD, LP POB 1651 Albany, TX 76430 wegandy1938@... Quote
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2006 Report Posted March 24, 2006 It’s been a long time since I’ve been in a chemistry class but isn’t ETOH (ethyl alcohol) also called Ethanol? As I recall only absolute Ethanol (200 Proof) is odorless. In order to get Absolute Ethanol, Benzene must be added, making the product poisonous. Absolute Ethanol is very tightly controlled and often has additives due to its toxicity that make it very unpleasant to consume. The purest form available for human consumption is 95% (190 Proof) and can tell you that it has a very distinctive odor (due to the other 5%). Ever smell Everclear? To answer the question, I like “the odor of an alcoholic beverage”. That’s what I was taught in the police academy as well in various EMS Documentation courses I have taken. Always do a D-Stick on anyone you suspect is intoxicated. The odors given off can be confused with those given off by someone in DKA. I’ve also heard of at least one case of drunken driving that was acquitted because there was never a D-Stick done and the defense was DKA. Tater Weinzapfel wrote: Be careful with ETOH. ETOH stands for ethyl alcohol, and that is a colorless, odorless liquid used in the process of manufacturing.....This is a common use of terminology that opens you to have some explaining on the stand.... Nick Kafarela wrote: I normally write " smell of what appears to be ETOH on the breath. " I have never had a problem w/ this and I have asked a few in legals about this and they say this is fine. If I am wrong, please let me know.. Mike wrote: I personnaly document " smell of an alcoholic beverage " or " smell of possible alcohol beverage " , alcohol its self ususlly does not give off an odor. What you usually smell are the additives mixed with the alcohol. This is my rule for both EMS reports and law enforcement incident reports. Mike S. > > Just wondering, maybe Gene or some legal eagle could answer a question. How > do you properly write a patient care report on a patient that smells like > they have been drinking alcoholic beverages? There seems to always be this > question of how do you know it is alcohol? Rubbing alcohol? Do not use ETOH > because we are not trained in that on and on and on. So what is the correct > procedure? > > > > Debbie > > > > Quote
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2006 Report Posted March 24, 2006 LE and EMS personnel will find this site interesting since we're on the topic of alcohol documentation. Re: " alcohol on breath... " http://www.drunkdriving-california.com/breath_alcohol_odor.html Re: " nystagmus observed... " http://www.drunkdriving-california.com/horizontal_gaze.html This is my favorite, because I love to hear LE and EMS personnel claim expertise on the subject of nystagmus. Unfortunately, in a former life, I learned this one the hard way, not unlike the officer in the " hypothetical " scenario on the site. All of the views expressed by me are my views only and are not representative of any agency, association, or other entity with which I am associated or am percieved to be affiliated. Quote
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2006 Report Posted March 24, 2006 > > It's been a long time since I've been in a chemistry class but isn't ETOH (ethyl alcohol) also called Ethanol? As I recall only absolute Ethanol (200 Proof) is odorless. In order to get Absolute Ethanol, Benzene must be added, making the product poisonous. Absolute Ethanol is very tightly controlled and often has additives due to its toxicity that make it very unpleasant to consume. > Ethanol is the IUPAC (International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry) name for CH3CH2OH. However, Ethyl Alcohol is the common name and is still used widely. Alfonso R. Ochoa Quote
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2006 Report Posted March 25, 2006 In a message dated 25-Mar-06 03:49:30 Central Standard Time, james_dav_bmcg@... writes: oh crap!!! benzene?? we bought ethanol in college from a chemcial supply place and poured it in the punch for a party back when jimmy carter was president jim davis Chuckle...you were probably ok, as that was most likely the 95% stuff...it's also sold as 'Everclear' over the counter. trust me, the 99% stuff (true Absolute Alcohol, with around 0.5% Bezene and 0.5% water) is not something you'd put in a punch...and you would have soon known it if you had tried, and carries bright red labels warning against human consumption. Here's the trick: Ethanol and water form a 'constant boiling mixture' at 95% Ethanol and 5% water...no matter how you try to cook the stuff, it stays at that temp until all the alcohol is boiled off...add a smidgen of Benzene (C6H6) and all of a sudden, the Ethanol/Benzene mixture boils at a low enough temperature that almost none of the water evaporates. The kicker is that even if you keep it tightly capped, the Ethanol is hygroscopic enough to start absorbing water from the air, and soon you are back to around 90-95% alcohol...with a trace of added bezene. ck S. Krin, DO FAAFP Quote
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2006 Report Posted March 25, 2006 oh crap!!! benzene?? we bought ethanol in college from a chemcial supply place and poured it in the punch for a party back when jimmy carter was president jim davis " Alfonso R. Ochoa " wrote: > > It's been a long time since I've been in a chemistry class but isn't ETOH (ethyl alcohol) also called Ethanol? As I recall only absolute Ethanol (200 Proof) is odorless. In order to get Absolute Ethanol, Benzene must be added, making the product poisonous. Absolute Ethanol is very tightly controlled and often has additives due to its toxicity that make it very unpleasant to consume. > Ethanol is the IUPAC (International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry) name for CH3CH2OH. However, Ethyl Alcohol is the common name and is still used widely. Alfonso R. Ochoa Quote
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2006 Report Posted March 25, 2006 Well, that explains a lot then................ james davis wrote: oh crap!!! benzene?? we bought ethanol in college from a chemcial supply place and poured it in the punch for a party back when jimmy carter was president jim davis " Alfonso R. Ochoa " wrote: > > It's been a long time since I've been in a chemistry class but isn't ETOH (ethyl alcohol) also called Ethanol? As I recall only absolute Ethanol (200 Proof) is odorless. In order to get Absolute Ethanol, Benzene must be added, making the product poisonous. Absolute Ethanol is very tightly controlled and often has additives due to its toxicity that make it very unpleasant to consume. > Ethanol is the IUPAC (International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry) name for CH3CH2OH. However, Ethyl Alcohol is the common name and is still used widely. Alfonso R. Ochoa Quote
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2006 Report Posted March 25, 2006 Thank you it's always a pleasure to read your documentaioons of your assesments, always learning!!! Jkey Weinzapfel wrote: Be careful with ETOH. ETOH stands for ethyl alcohol, and that is a colorless, odorless liquid used in the process of manufacturing.....This is a common use of terminology that opens you to have some explaining on the stand.... Nick Kafarela wrote: I normally write " smell of what appears to be ETOH on the breath. " I have never had a problem w/ this and I have asked a few in legals about this and they say this is fine. If I am wrong, please let me know.. Mike wrote: I personnaly document " smell of an alcoholic beverage " or " smell of possible alcohol beverage " , alcohol its self ususlly does not give off an odor. What you usually smell are the additives mixed with the alcohol. This is my rule for both EMS reports and law enforcement incident reports. Mike S. > > Just wondering, maybe Gene or some legal eagle could answer a question. How > do you properly write a patient care report on a patient that smells like > they have been drinking alcoholic beverages? There seems to always be this > question of how do you know it is alcohol? Rubbing alcohol? Do not use ETOH > because we are not trained in that on and on and on. So what is the correct > procedure? > > > > Debbie > > > > Quote
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2006 Report Posted March 27, 2006 at least i have an excuse now!! " E. Tate " wrote: Well, that explains a lot then................ james davis wrote: oh crap!!! benzene?? we bought ethanol in college from a chemcial supply place and poured it in the punch for a party back when jimmy carter was president jim davis " Alfonso R. Ochoa " wrote: > > It's been a long time since I've been in a chemistry class but isn't ETOH (ethyl alcohol) also called Ethanol? As I recall only absolute Ethanol (200 Proof) is odorless. In order to get Absolute Ethanol, Benzene must be added, making the product poisonous. Absolute Ethanol is very tightly controlled and often has additives due to its toxicity that make it very unpleasant to consume. > Ethanol is the IUPAC (International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry) name for CH3CH2OH. However, Ethyl Alcohol is the common name and is still used widely. Alfonso R. Ochoa Quote
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2006 Report Posted March 27, 2006 You have a point. Where is that chemical supply place and do you still have any contacts there? Tater james davis wrote: at least i have an excuse now!! " E. Tate " wrote: Well, that explains a lot then................ james davis wrote: oh crap!!! benzene?? we bought ethanol in college from a chemcial supply place and poured it in the punch for a party back when jimmy carter was president jim davis " Alfonso R. Ochoa " wrote: > > It's been a long time since I've been in a chemistry class but isn't ETOH (ethyl alcohol) also called Ethanol? As I recall only absolute Ethanol (200 Proof) is odorless. In order to get Absolute Ethanol, Benzene must be added, making the product poisonous. Absolute Ethanol is very tightly controlled and often has additives due to its toxicity that make it very unpleasant to consume. > Ethanol is the IUPAC (International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry) name for CH3CH2OH. However, Ethyl Alcohol is the common name and is still used widely. Alfonso R. Ochoa Quote
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2006 Report Posted March 27, 2006 You can get pure 200 proof ethanol without dilutants. It is regulated by the ATF and has to logged in an out like controlled substances. We had it around the medical school and most hospital labs have it. Ethanol from a chemical supply for use as a solvent has to have the dilutants by law to keep people from drinking it. By the way, benzene is highly carcinogenic. BEB Re: Re: alcohol documentation You have a point. Where is that chemical supply place and do you still have any contacts there? Tater james davis wrote: at least i have an excuse now!! " E. Tate " wrote: Well, that explains a lot then................ james davis wrote: oh crap!!! benzene?? we bought ethanol in college from a chemcial supply place and poured it in the punch for a party back when jimmy carter was president jim davis " Alfonso R. Ochoa " wrote: > > It's been a long time since I've been in a chemistry class but isn't ETOH (ethyl alcohol) also called Ethanol? As I recall only absolute Ethanol (200 Proof) is odorless. In order to get Absolute Ethanol, Benzene must be added, making the product poisonous. Absolute Ethanol is very tightly controlled and often has additives due to its toxicity that make it very unpleasant to consume. > Ethanol is the IUPAC (International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry) name for CH3CH2OH. However, Ethyl Alcohol is the common name and is still used widely. Alfonso R. Ochoa Quote
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2006 Report Posted March 28, 2006 In a message dated 27-Mar-06 22:56:08 Central Standard Time, bbledsoe@... writes: You can get pure 200 proof ethanol without dilutants. It is regulated by the ATF and has to logged in an out like controlled substances. We had it around the medical school and most hospital labs have it. Ethanol from a chemical supply for use as a solvent has to have the dilutants by law to keep people from drinking it. By the way, benzene is highly carcinogenic. BEB chuckle...as I pointed out before, not something that you'd want to add to your garbage can punch... and as far as Absolute Alcohol, '200 proof' (but only 99.5% pure so technically only 199 proof), 2 liters for $69.20 at Fischer Scientific....so also not something you'd use in a punch. S. Krin, DO FAAFP Quote
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2006 Report Posted March 28, 2006 > > To answer the question, I like " the odor of an alcoholic > beverage " . That's what I was taught in the police academy as well in > various EMS Documentation courses I have taken. Always do a D-Stick on > anyone you suspect is intoxicated. The odors given off can be confused with > those given off by someone in DKA. > New DWI case law suggests using " the odor of a metabolized alcoholic beverage " when discussing the odor on someone's breath, to dispel the " I spilled beer on myself " arguement. Mike Quote
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2006 Report Posted March 28, 2006 I'll have to read up on that. I didn't know it was possible to get 200 proof without adding something else to it. Tater " Bledsoe, DO " wrote: You can get pure 200 proof ethanol without dilutants. It is regulated by the ATF and has to logged in an out like controlled substances. We had it around the medical school and most hospital labs have it. Ethanol from a chemical supply for use as a solvent has to have the dilutants by law to keep people from drinking it. By the way, benzene is highly carcinogenic. BEB Re: Re: alcohol documentation You have a point. Where is that chemical supply place and do you still have any contacts there? Tater james davis wrote: at least i have an excuse now!! " E. Tate " wrote: Well, that explains a lot then................ james davis wrote: oh crap!!! benzene?? we bought ethanol in college from a chemcial supply place and poured it in the punch for a party back when jimmy carter was president jim davis " Alfonso R. Ochoa " wrote: > > It's been a long time since I've been in a chemistry class but isn't ETOH (ethyl alcohol) also called Ethanol? As I recall only absolute Ethanol (200 Proof) is odorless. In order to get Absolute Ethanol, Benzene must be added, making the product poisonous. Absolute Ethanol is very tightly controlled and often has additives due to its toxicity that make it very unpleasant to consume. > Ethanol is the IUPAC (International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry) name for CH3CH2OH. However, Ethyl Alcohol is the common name and is still used widely. Alfonso R. Ochoa Quote
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2006 Report Posted March 28, 2006 ----Original Message----- From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On Behalf Of E. Tate Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 10:51 PM To: texasems-l Subject: Re: Re: alcohol documentation You have a point. Where is that chemical supply place and do you still have any contacts there? Tater no. it was 1980. i hope any applicable statute of limitations have run out jim " E. Tate " wrote: I'll have to read up on that. I didn't know it was possible to get 200 proof without adding something else to it. Tater " Bledsoe, DO " wrote: You can get pure 200 proof ethanol without dilutants. It is regulated by the ATF and has to logged in an out like controlled substances. We had it around the medical school and most hospital labs have it. Ethanol from a chemical supply for use as a solvent has to have the dilutants by law to keep people from drinking it. By the way, benzene is highly carcinogenic. BEB Re: Re: alcohol documentation You have a point. Where is that chemical supply place and do you still have any contacts there? Tater james davis wrote: at least i have an excuse now!! " E. Tate " wrote: Well, that explains a lot then................ james davis wrote: oh crap!!! benzene?? we bought ethanol in college from a chemcial supply place and poured it in the punch for a party back when jimmy carter was president jim davis " Alfonso R. Ochoa " wrote: > > It's been a long time since I've been in a chemistry class but isn't ETOH (ethyl alcohol) also called Ethanol? As I recall only absolute Ethanol (200 Proof) is odorless. In order to get Absolute Ethanol, Benzene must be added, making the product poisonous. Absolute Ethanol is very tightly controlled and often has additives due to its toxicity that make it very unpleasant to consume. > Ethanol is the IUPAC (International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry) name for CH3CH2OH. However, Ethyl Alcohol is the common name and is still used widely. Alfonso R. Ochoa Quote
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