Re: wired but tired

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/9/2007 1:47:32 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

artisticgroomer@... writes:

I have actually seen quite a few people here get their lives back when they

were bedbound, and it takes TIME abotu 2 years and maybe longer depending on

how long they have been ill.

It had taken me one month for every year I have been untreated...and I was a

step away from death. Patience is needed for recovery.

Helen Trimble

**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest

products.

(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/9/2007 3:43:36 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

skg59@... writes:

The only problem I have now is that I'm experiencing severe anxiety, e.g.

phobic stuff. I have been battling this since my first panic attack at age 26,

with bouts of remission from it and it all started after a very stressful

divorce at age 26

My anxiety and phobic issues and panics attacks all went away with proper

treatment alone. I stay as stress free as possible, knowing that stress is a

catalyst for imbalance in my system.

Helen Trimble

**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest

products.

(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

[Guest guest]

Well, what is the difference? I mean, adrenal fatigue IS chronic fatigue by

definition so how do you differentiate between the two?

As far as being both tired and wired, when you adrenals are shot, the

adrenaline overcompensates for lack of cortisol so you get the wired feeling

but are still exhausted due to depleted cortisol. I had that for about 7

years before I completely crashed.

Cheri

wired but tired

Hi all

This question of mine are to those who have only adrenal fatigue but not

cfs.

do you have this wired but tired feeling?At this moment I am extremely

exhausted to the point of breathlessness but can not stop following mails

and making some searches at web.Do you have this problem?

bw

Nil

.

[Guest guest]

Do you mean chronic fatigue or chronic fatigue syndrome?

Thanks for the explanation.

bw

Nil

RE: wired but tired

Well, what is the difference? I mean, adrenal fatigue IS chronic fatigue by

definition so how do you differentiate between the two?

[Guest guest]

I'm there right now. Not enough sleep but wired like I just had a few

cups of coffee.But I'm worn out. I took licorice for the first time

today with my HC and am wondering if that is contributing to this

feeling.

[Guest guest]

I agree with Cheri, and also I now think fibromyalgia is hypothyroid. I

have both CFS and Fibro, but to me, they are both adrenal/thyroid.

sol

MsSquarepants wrote:

> Well, what is the difference? I mean, adrenal fatigue IS chronic fatigue by

> definition so how do you differentiate between the two?

>

> As far as being both tired and wired, when you adrenals are shot, the

> adrenaline overcompensates for lack of cortisol so you get the wired feeling

> but are still exhausted due to depleted cortisol.

[Guest guest]

I mean people who've had a diagnosis of EXCLUSION and have chronic fatigue

syndrome.

Adrenal fatigue and exhaustion has lots of symptoms in common with CFS, but many

more are usually present.

RE: wired but tired

Well, what is the difference? I mean, adrenal fatigue IS chronic fatigue by

definition so how do you differentiate between the two?

[Guest guest]

The " tired and wired " thing you are describing goes along with high copper women

as well who have copper toxicity and don't know it. It's described in detail in

an excellent book called " Why am I always So Tired " by Louise Gittleman.

The copper stresses the thyroid and adrenals, but because copper is a stimulant

it makes us wired and tired at the same time.

Not sure if that could be part of your picture, but it would be worth getting a

hair analysis from Trace Elements Lab (or first reading her book where she gives

you these resources).

wired but tired

Hi all

This question of mine are to those who have only adrenal fatigue but not

cfs.

do you have this wired but tired feeling?At this moment I am extremely

exhausted to the point of breathlessness but can not stop following mails

and making some searches at web.Do you have this problem?

bw

Nil

.

[Guest guest]

I have this problem. I have had this problem for a very long time. I exhausted

my adrenals and am on cortisol replacement (maybe for life) but I am wired and

extremely anxious all the time to the point of sometimes being agoraphobic and

afraid to leave the house. Last night my beau and I were in BJ's and I had a

bad attack. We were in one of the aisles when suddenly I felt like I was

choking and I couldn't swallow. I sat there terrified that my throat was

closing and kept telling my beau I couldn't swallow. It went on for almost an

hour; he thought I was going into anaphylactic shock. I have a copper problem

as per my visit to the Pfeiffer Treatment Center who specialize in Copper

toxicity in Illinois. I am always revved up inside but very low energy and I go

and go and go and my mind doesn't stop until I finally collapse for the

day/night.

wired but tired

Hi all

This question of mine are to those who have only adrenal fatigue but not cfs.

do you have this wired but tired feeling?At this moment I am extremely

exhausted to the point of breathlessness but can not stop following mails and

making some searches at web.Do you have this problem?

bw

Nil

[Guest guest]

If Fibro and CFS are both adrenal/thyroid then how come nobody completely

recovers when these two things are treated? I believe only the hypothalamus

being dysregulated can cause the wide array of symptoms in the wide array of

systems that break down in both of these conditions.

Re: wired but tired

I agree with Cheri, and also I now think fibromyalgia is hypothyroid. I

have both CFS and Fibro, but to me, they are both adrenal/thyroid.

sol

MsSquarepants wrote:

> Well, what is the difference? I mean, adrenal fatigue IS chronic fatigue by

> definition so how do you differentiate between the two?

>

> As far as being both tired and wired, when you adrenals are shot, the

> adrenaline overcompensates for lack of cortisol so you get the wired feeling

> but are still exhausted due to depleted cortisol.

[Guest guest]

>>If Fibro and CFS are both adrenal/thyroid then how come nobody completely

recovers when these two things are treated? I believe only the hypothalamus

being dysregulated can cause the wide array of symptoms in the wide array of

systems that break down in both of these conditions. <<

Because adrenal problems are VERY difficult to treat! And thyroid can be too,

especially when the two are together as they are most the time. Then add in a

poisoned food and water supply that keeps adrenals weak and thyroid non

functional. Tell me a doctor ANYWHERE that can give the kind of dosage tweaking

thta we have here (and that is absolutely NECESSARY) to get people well. They do

nto have the time or knowledge toi do this. So peopela re being undertreated

wiht thyroid, RT3 problems go undiagnosed and untreated, and cortiosl issus we

are told are all in our heads.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://www.seewell4less.com/Valspage.htm Medical Alert Bracelets

[Guest guest]

Hi

Are you taking their copper treatment?I am also copper toxic and tried to apply

their treatment plan as far as I learned for web and it helped me. I still take

zinc.

bw

Nil

Re: wired but tired

I have this problem. I have had this problem for a

[Guest guest]

I did their copper elimination program as prescribed by them very intensely for

two years. Now I just continue to be mindful of the low copper/high protein

diet plus the supplements that help keep copper down, e.g. molybdenum, zinc,

mag, the B's, manganese, etc.

Re: wired but tired

I have this problem. I have had this problem for a

[Guest guest]

Yeah Val, I agree. But neither are the people who are self-treating with Armour

and HC and taking as much as they need recovering, e.g. people on this list and

others.

Re: wired but tired

>>If Fibro and CFS are both adrenal/thyroid then how come nobody completely

recovers when these two things are treated? I believe only the hypothalamus

being dysregulated can cause the wide array of symptoms in the wide array of

systems that break down in both of these conditions. <<

Because adrenal problems are VERY difficult to treat! And thyroid can be too,

especially when the two are together as they are most the time. Then add in a

poisoned food and water supply that keeps adrenals weak and thyroid non

functional. Tell me a doctor ANYWHERE that can give the kind of dosage tweaking

thta we have here (and that is absolutely NECESSARY) to get people well. They do

nto have the time or knowledge toi do this. So peopela re being undertreated

wiht thyroid, RT3 problems go undiagnosed and untreated, and cortiosl issus we

are told are all in our heads.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://www.seewell4less.com/Valspage.htm Medical Alert Bracelets

[Guest guest]

>>Yeah Val, I agree. But neither are the people who are self-treating with

Armour and HC and taking as much as they need recovering, e.g. people on this

list and others.<<

Well that's a negative attitude! I have actually seen quite a few people here

get their lives back when they were bedbound, and it takes TIME abotu 2 years

and maybe longer depending on how long they have been ill. Heck it can take a

couple years to get thyroid correct and start healing form that and that is once

the cortiosl is adjusted well.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://www.seewell4less.com/Valspage.htm Medical Alert Bracelets

[Guest guest]

Val, I'm ONLY referring here to people bedbound with CFS and Fibro, not adrenal

fatigue and improperly treated hypothyroidism. Many people with CFS do not have

hypothyroidism. If they were only hypoadrenal, then the controlled studies that

they have done right here in the US and I have read about them (where they

treated CFS patients with 30 mgs. HC a day who had some initial improvement, but

still remained quite ill. Unfortunately, they also kept them on it for quite

some time and then they developed suppression of the HPA axis.

Re: wired but tired

>>Yeah Val, I agree. But neither are the people who are self-treating with

Armour and HC and taking as much as they need recovering, e.g. people on this

list and others.<<

Well that's a negative attitude! I have actually seen quite a few people here

get their lives back when they were bedbound, and it takes TIME abotu 2 years

and maybe longer depending on how long they have been ill. Heck it can take a

couple years to get thyroid correct and start healing form that and that is once

the cortiosl is adjusted well.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://www.seewell4less.com/Valspage.htm Medical Alert Bracelets

[Guest guest]

This may sound snitty, but YOU have had mickel therapy, etc, and YOU

aren't cured or you wouldn't need HC and thyroid? If mickel therapy

cures the hypothalamus problem that underlies all else, why aren't you

cured? (serious question!).

sol

Gikas wrote:

> Yeah Val, I agree. But neither are the people who are self-treating with

Armour and HC and taking as much as they need recovering, e.g. people on this

list and others.

>

>

[Guest guest]

>>I have read about them (where they treated CFS patients with 30 mgs. HC a day

who had some initial improvement, but still remained quite ill. Unfortunately,

they also kept them on it for quite some time and then they developed

suppression of the HPA axis.<<

BUT , WHAT criterion did they use to determiine they were not hypothyroid?

TSH labs? SURE when you are veyr low in cortiosl your blood labs for T3 are

ALWAYS in range, till you add enough cortiosl to get it inot the cells. Sorry

but I have seen too many BAD studies and unless I could see how they determined

they were not hypothyroid, I would not believe it. I seldom EVER see anyone even

onthese lists that is beloiw range in thyroid. Are we aLL NOT HYPO?

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://www.seewell4less.com/Valspage.htm Medical Alert Bracelets

[Guest guest]

Since I was told for decades that my thyroid was normal, and most docs

don't know how to really evaluate,and only use TSH, and most do not

accept that adrenal fatigue even exists, I am not willing to accept

claims that those people were/are NOT hypoT or adrenal fatigued. Now, if

I could see the lab results on all those folks..................... I

myself could have been put in such a study, and they would have said I

was not hypo nor adrenal fatigued, as that is what I had been told for

umpteen years.

But, I now know from my personal experience that supporting adrenals

alone will help. It certainly does not fix hypothyroid. And I now know

personally that treating hypoT with armour while still being quite low

cortisol will not fix the adrenals........So I gotta wonder how many of

those people with CFS and fibro who supposedly are not hypo, would be

considered hypo by the info I've gotten from STTM, About.com, and from Val.

sol

Gikas wrote:

> Val, I'm ONLY referring here to people bedbound with CFS and Fibro, not

adrenal fatigue and improperly treated hypothyroidism. Many people with CFS do

not have hypothyroidism.

[Guest guest]

" Gikas " wrote:

>

> Yeah Val, I agree. But neither are the people who are self-

treating with Armour and HC and taking as much as they need

recovering, e.g. people on this list and others.

>

I think you've hit the nail on the head right there. " TAKING AS MUCH

AS THEY NEED. " I can certainly understand everyone's reluctance to

increase their HC, and yet some people really NEED more. Either out

of ignorance, doctor's incompetence, or complete denial, some won't

increase HC and therefore can never tolerate thyroid, and

consequently will never be well. They then just live with the

anxiety, depression, etc.

If there was even a possibility that you could get better, wouldn't

you want to try that protocol before dismissing it?

I think CFS and fibromyalgia are just hypoadrenal/hypothyroid

patients who haven't reached their optimal dose. Sure, they may even

be taking HC and Armour, but are they taking enough? Like Val said,

most docs do NOT read blood labs correctly, and since many use TSH,

most patients will be undermedicated.

Barb

[Guest guest]

Barb,

I so agree with you!

I was told I haev Fibromyalgia and CFS. This stared when I contracted EBV a

couple years back. I had no clue I had it. All I know is one day I woke up and I

was

SO tired and my legs hurt.

I had post traumatic stress a year prior pretty bad and the EBV just threw my

body totally off kilter.

All the doctors I saw in LA told me all seemed good with my lab work and not

until last year did one doc finally test me for EBV and the test came back >5.00

test off the page.

I am on fibro and CFS support group and forum online and I do feel that most

that suffer from the debilating fatigue are too tired to research , which I can

relate to at times as well as the docs just do not and or not educated enough

about adrenal insufficieny. I was truly blessed to stumble on STTM and then came

to find this group!

My wish is that with testing and education myself more that I cna have some

assemblance of a life. I am in my 30's and due to the constant infections and

such exhaustion I can not work for the meantime. I ma very blessed I have

Medicare that helps. My doctor treating me, the only one I have found to be

somewhat knowledgable about the adrenal takes no isurance . I try and see him

only once a month.

a

Barb wrote:

" Gikas " wrote:

>

> Yeah Val, I agree. But neither are the people who are self-

treating with Armour and HC and taking as much as they need

recovering, e.g. people on this list and others.

>

I think you've hit the nail on the head right there. " TAKING AS MUCH

AS THEY NEED. " I can certainly understand everyone's reluctance to

increase their HC, and yet some people really NEED more. Either out

of ignorance, doctor's incompetence, or complete denial, some won't

increase HC and therefore can never tolerate thyroid, and

consequently will never be well. They then just live with the

anxiety, depression, etc.

If there was even a possibility that you could get better, wouldn't

you want to try that protocol before dismissing it?

I think CFS and fibromyalgia are just hypoadrenal/hypothyroid

patients who haven't reached their optimal dose. Sure, they may even

be taking HC and Armour, but are they taking enough? Like Val said,

most docs do NOT read blood labs correctly, and since many use TSH,

most patients will be undermedicated.

Barb

[Guest guest]

I am housebound alot. I am 36 and have been ill for four years or so. I know

when I am on any type of steroid, not only is most of my pain taken away, I can

go out of the house for more than an hour. I have bad CFS, but I am almost sure

now by the STTM and this group I have adrenals that are in very bad shape. It

does take alot of time but it also depends on what the individuals is strugling

with health wise besides CFS.

I think because I was on dpression medication for so many years and anti

-anxiety , then bad post traumatic stress, and then EBV, it was the icing on the

cake.

I will be really happy if the HC helps me even if it is for a couple hours as

how it is now almost everyday I can not do that much something to me is better

than nothing.It hss been too long that I have been like this!

I do get that the HC can wear down the adrenals further if one is on it for a

long time, but if I am in a very bad stage of adrenals being low I think that

only a couple months on it would not fix the state I am in. Is this correct do

you think?

a

Gikas wrote:

Val, I'm ONLY referring here to people bedbound with CFS and Fibro, not

adrenal fatigue and improperly treated hypothyroidism. Many people with CFS do

not have hypothyroidism. If they were only hypoadrenal, then the controlled

studies that they have done right here in the US and I have read about them

(where they treated CFS patients with 30 mgs. HC a day who had some initial

improvement, but still remained quite ill. Unfortunately, they also kept them on

it for quite some time and then they developed suppression of the HPA axis.

Re: wired but tired

>>Yeah Val, I agree. But neither are the people who are self-treating with

Armour and HC and taking as much as they need recovering, e.g. people on this

list and others.<<

Well that's a negative attitude! I have actually seen quite a few people here

get their lives back when they were bedbound, and it takes TIME abotu 2 years

and maybe longer depending on how long they have been ill. Heck it can take a

couple years to get thyroid correct and start healing form that and that is once

the cortiosl is adjusted well.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://www.seewell4less.com/Valspage.htm Medical Alert Bracelets

[Guest guest]

Speaking of this,

When somebody is let's say a " little hypo " and has serious adrenal fatigue, does

treating the adrenals make the hypoT worse or better (without adding thyroid

hormone)

Thanks,

Re: wired but tired

>>I have read about them (where they treated CFS patients with 30 mgs. HC a

day who had some initial improvement, but still remained quite ill.

Unfortunately, they also kept them on it for quite some time and then they

developed suppression of the HPA axis.<<

BUT , WHAT criterion did they use to determiine they were not

hypothyroid? TSH labs? SURE when you are veyr low in cortiosl your blood labs

for T3 are ALWAYS in range, till you add enough cortiosl to get it inot the

cells. Sorry but I have seen too many BAD studies and unless I could see how

they determined they were not hypothyroid, I would not believe it. I seldom EVER

see anyone even onthese lists that is beloiw range in thyroid. Are we aLL NOT

HYPO?

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://www.seewell4less.com/Valspage.htm Medical Alert Bracelets

[Guest guest]

I have yet to see someone that was just a little hypo unless they were

children. MOST hypo is caused by Hashi's which destroys the thyroid

gland so full replacement is needed no matter when it si caught.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

[Guest guest]

The only problem I have now is that I'm experiencing severe anxiety, e.g. phobic

stuff. I have been battling this since my first panic attack at age 26, with

bouts of remission from it and it all started after a very stressful divorce at

age 26. I went thru the program at The Center for Anxiety Disorders here in

Boston several years ago and I was completely cured of the panic disorder and

went from too frightened to leave the house alone (but could go with a trusted

person) to driving again on the expressway (something I had avoided and was

terrified of since my first panic attack at age 27 happened on the highway). I

believe my adrenals were fine then and I don't believe I was hypo either. I

still don't know to this day if I'm hypo. The desensitization program they put

me thru at the Center for Anxiety Disorders was the only thing that worked for

my anxiety/panic disorder and for a long time I could go anywhere and do

anything I wanted. Now years later, this has come back and I'm suspecting it's

because I am having all kinds of underlying worries about the future and have

been quite impacted by my only child moving to Europe (Belgium) because he's in

international affairs and got a job in Brussels, Although I want my son to be

happy first and foremost, I know that he is; but I think this is something I

never expected and it's taking a real toll on me emotionally, PLUS I have been

going thru some serious conflict with my beau of 13 years. We were finally

going to move in together (now that kids are grown and gone) but I cannot accept

the location of his home and I don't like it and he refuses to sell and buy

another house so I won't move there. I believe that the emotions of

frustration, disappointment, sorrow and anger as well are manifesting back into

anxiety and panic. I don't know what to do with these emotions since I have

tried expressing them to some degree, but I feel HELPLESS to change any of this

and this has resulted in depression and anxiety. Depression and anxiety are

about other emotions underneath and it's those emotions that must be dealt with.

As far as my CFS goes, I AM considered cured since I am able to work again,

clean my entire house, shop, entertain and walk about one mile (I can't go

further without tiring because of stamina problems and weight gain from the

years I was in bed with CFS and lots of weight gain from medication. So if

being cured means going from bedridden and unable to care for myself (which I

wasn't) some days couldn't get to the bathroom or even the fridge to get food

(had to live with my beau during that time) TO doing all of the above, then I

guess I'm cured. As far as my anxiety/panic stuff, I think I need to make some

decisions about how I'm going to address all these stuffed emotions and feelings

of helplessness that I have to change things as I would like them to be. I am

also somewhat of a control freak and don't like it when I can't have my way and

I develop the emotion of feeling helpless and THIS mostly is what turns into

depression/anxiety/panic cycle.

Re: wired but tired

This may sound snitty, but YOU have had mickel therapy, etc, and YOU

aren't cured or you wouldn't need HC and thyroid? If mickel therapy

cures the hypothalamus problem that underlies all else, why aren't you

cured? (serious question!).

sol

Gikas wrote:

> Yeah Val, I agree. But neither are the people who are self-treating with

Armour and HC and taking as much as they need recovering, e.g. people on this

list and others.

>

>