Guest guest Posted April 12, 2006 Report Posted April 12, 2006 Hi Katy, Well I had added soy and prozac to my regimen in December/jan and my TSH went from 2.1 to 7.37 I kept the soy and dropped the prozac and my TSH went to 1.86.... So not sure. I added the prozac back in, upped the T4 a bit and my doc added T3 so I will know when I go for bloodwork next week. Sue Hi Sue I avoid soy as best I can (yuk!) and eat a very healthy diet (I'm a follower of Sally Fallon's Nourishing Traditions). I do take St 's Wort for depression but I have been taking that almost a year so it predates my Fall 2005 results. I may have upped the dose a little since then but only a small amount. Did you identify what caused your own TSH to rise eventually? The TSH shot up after I started Armour but has settled back slightly since I moved up to 1 grain - puzzling but hopefully a good sign. Katy > > Katy, > > Your Ft3 still has plenty room to go up toward high mid range. > As far as your TSH, have you ADDED ANYthing to your regimen since Fall of > 2005 such as soy or antidepressants? > I ask cuz I had the same thing happen to me — my T3 and T4 good and my TSH > went up... > Just wondering and trying to figure this all out as we go along > > Sue > > > > TIA > > > > Katy > > > Quote
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2006 Report Posted April 12, 2006 How did shifting things around affect your T3 levels... ? What type(s) of soy? Topper () On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 12:42:52 -0500 jytdtp writes: Hi Katy,Well I had added soy and prozac to my regimen in December/jan and my TSH went from 2.1 to 7.37I kept the soy and dropped the prozac and my TSH went to 1.86.... So not sure.I added the prozac back in, upped the T4 a bit and my doc added T3 so I will know when I go for bloodwork next week.Sue Quote
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2006 Report Posted April 12, 2006 HI Topper, My FT3 has not been tested since it was just added in March and I will go for complete thryoid labs next week as well as for my physical blood work up this Friday, will know soon. The soy is mostly in the form of soy protein- I had started on the Nutrisystem food plan to get on a low glycemic portion controlled way of eating. I did lost 10 lbs in two months and now I am just focusing on healing my adrenals which are over-producing. I will know more about the affect T3 has had on me labwise in a week or so. Physical changes I have noticed are: less hair falling out (finally after two years on T4 alone!), warm hands and feet, and better overall mood. I have read T3 has actually been used to treat Post traumatic stress disorder and depression so it makes sense. I will post my labs and ranges when I get them. I am very curious as to what’s going on “number wise”. Sue How did shifting things around affect your T3 levels... ? What type(s) of soy? Topper () On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 12:42:52 -0500 jytdtp writes: Hi Katy, Well I had added soy and prozac to my regimen in December/jan and my TSH went from 2.1 to 7.37 I kept the soy and dropped the prozac and my TSH went to 1.86.... So not sure. I added the prozac back in, upped the T4 a bit and my doc added T3 so I will know when I go for bloodwork next week. Sue Quote
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2006 Report Posted April 12, 2006 I'm curious to see too... You're responding well to the addition of the T3, seems to confirm that data that says soy has negative effects on conversion... the direct T3 is making up for lost conversion..... It will be interesting to see what this next set of numbers says about what is going on... Remember don't take any thyroid, either kind, the morning of the labs... take it after.. that way the labs will show what has built up in your system, which is what you need to see, and not what you just took... Topper () On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 16:26:08 -0500 jytdtp writes: HI Topper,My FT3 has not been tested since it was just added in March and I will go for complete thryoid labs next week as well as for my physical blood work up this Friday, will know soon.The soy is mostly in the form of soy protein- I had started on the Nutrisystem food plan to get on a low glycemic portion controlled way of eating. I did lost 10 lbs in two months and now I am just focusing on healing my adrenals which are over-producing.I will know more about the affect T3 has had on me labwise in a week or so. Physical changes I have noticed are: less hair falling out (finally after two years on T4 alone!), warm hands and feet, and better overall mood. I have read T3 has actually been used to treat Post traumatic stress disorder and depression so it makes sense.I will post my labs and ranges when I get them. I am very curious as to what’s going on “number wise”.Sue Quote
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2006 Report Posted April 12, 2006 Why don’t those “silly doctors” tell us NOT to take our thyroid meds before coming down?? Sheesh, thanks for reminding me! Sue I'm curious to see too... You're responding well to the addition of the T3, seems to confirm that data that says soy has negative effects on conversion... the direct T3 is making up for lost conversion..... It will be interesting to see what this next set of numbers says about what is going on... Remember don't take any thyroid, either kind, the morning of the labs... take it after.. that way the labs will show what has built up in your system, which is what you need to see, and not what you just took... Topper () On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 16:26:08 -0500 jytdtp writes: HI Topper, My FT3 has not been tested since it was just added in March and I will go for complete thryoid labs next week as well as for my physical blood work up this Friday, will know soon. The soy is mostly in the form of soy protein- I had started on the Nutrisystem food plan to get on a low glycemic portion controlled way of eating. I did lost 10 lbs in two months and now I am just focusing on healing my adrenals which are over-producing. I will know more about the affect T3 has had on me labwise in a week or so. Physical changes I have noticed are: less hair falling out (finally after two years on T4 alone!), warm hands and feet, and better overall mood. I have read T3 has actually been used to treat Post traumatic stress disorder and depression so it makes sense. I will post my labs and ranges when I get them. I am very curious as to what’s going on “number wise”. Sue Quote
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2006 Report Posted April 12, 2006 I've been taking Synthroid for 6 or 7 years, and no one ever told me not to take it before having blood drawn for labs. What direction would that push the numbers? In other words, if you took your dose before the test, could it make it look like you needed less medication? Tammy Quote
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2006 Report Posted April 13, 2006 Yep... it could.... the test could be showing higher levels of Total and Free T4 and Lower TSH. For someone taking natural thyroid it also shows Free T3 higher. Ideally we want the labs to show what our body is doing on the dose that we are taking. Not what it's doing right after taking the dose... two very different things... Topper () On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 18:49:23 -0500 Tammy Wolfgram writes: I've been taking Synthroid for 6 or 7 years, andno one ever told me not to take it before havingblood drawn for labs. What direction would thatpush the numbers? In other words, if you tookyour dose before the test, could it make it looklike you needed less medication?Tammy Quote
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2006 Report Posted April 13, 2006 I can't find my notes... there are two blockers... no picking on me for spelling... Atenolol and Propanolol... one is okay to use with thyroid hormone... one is not... but I can't remember which is which..... anybody??? Other than that... things are looking good.... yep... insist on the increase at your next appointment.... Topper () On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 11:58:23 -0000 "Katy" writes: Hi Topper>> Katy... are all the tests for Frees (the T4 and the T3)? You skipped your> meds that morning, until after the blood draw??I assume they are frees ... I originally asked for frees (in the Fall) and since then my test results have been in the same ranges, so again I assume that they are all frees. Yes I skipped my Armour that morning before the blood draw.> > If so... the numbers, to me.... show that your body woke up when you> started on meds.. that kicked up the TSH... the Frees are slowly coming> up, as they should.. but over all the dose is still too low.... you'll> need to keep tweaking it up.... I'll see the doc again in a month and I plan to insist that I go up to 1 1/2 grains. After all, I will by then have been "very good" and stuck to his low dose for over four months (with 2 1/2 of those months on 1 grain) and my bloods are not going mad. How can he refuse?!? > It is good to take increases slowly... allowing your body to adjust to> the changes it's going through... takes a bit longer that way, but it> makes things better for you in the long run, especially if it happens> that you increase so quickly that you end up taking too much before your> body has a chance to reflect that and you end up reducing your dose to> allow the excess to be used up and then start over again.... Glad you agree on that - I'm clinging to that idea, that slower is better than faster.> > I've seen TSH rise like that in folks... it has to do with how the body> is functioning... if increasing the TSH in the past did no good... it's> like the body desensitizes to it and it just gives up bothering... then> adding supplemental hormone gives the body enough to start waking up and> it starts looking around and says 'hey, I'm feeling better, lets make> some more of this stuff' and the Hypothalamus kicks into gear letting the> pituitary know to kick up the TSH production again to get the thyroid> going again.....I did ask the Doc about this theory and he said it was not likely. I am also taking St s Wort for depression and Propranolol (beta blocker) to prevent debilitating headaches, and my recent reading has revealed that either of these can affect TSH levels (ie, make them rise). In fact, I began the Propranolol just after I had the first blood tests in the Fall ... ! Unfortunately, I don't want to give up either of them and suffer the consequences just yet! I will check with the Doc when I see him about what is the best thing to do on that.> > Watch the numbers of the Frees more than the TSH, especially the> relationship between the T4 and the T3.... T3 should be higher in it's> range than the T4 is in it's.... and T3, for most of us, has to be at the> top of it's range for us to feel best....Looks like it will be some while before my T3 rises that much at this rate!> > How is your temp and pulse doing, have you been charting?Yes I'm still charting. My temps are improving very slowly. Average temp over a menstrual cycle before Armour was 97.1 and is now 97.3. The most marked improvement is that my cycles ans consequent rises and falls of temperatures have snapped back to normal after practically disappearing in the Fall. I've had four normal cycles since I started Armour. Pulse is still the same - 56-60 bpm. But I guess it's the T3 which sorts that out and I still have very little in my system.Katy Quote
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2006 Report Posted April 13, 2006 Yes, that is exactly right. -med Re: Re: New blood results I've been taking Synthroid for 6 or 7 years, andno one ever told me not to take it before havingblood drawn for labs. What direction would thatpush the numbers? In other words, if you tookyour dose before the test, could it make it looklike you needed less medication?Tammy Quote
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2006 Report Posted April 13, 2006 Its not the t4 you have to watch out for in this way...its the t3 pills..or combo pills. You can take t4 whenever you want. ~E:)Tammy Wolfgram wrote: I've been taking Synthroid for 6 or 7 years, andno one ever told me not to take it before havingblood drawn for labs. What direction would thatpush the numbers? In other words, if you tookyour dose before the test, could it make it looklike you needed less medication?Tammy ~EG Connecticut Total-T 2 years ago / 60 mg Synthetic/135mg Armour How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates. Quote
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2006 Report Posted April 13, 2006 Thanks, Kat... I KNEW someone would have the info! hehehe Topper () On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 21:02:39 -0000 "kats3boys" writes: Inderal( propanolol) is used to treat the high heart rate in hyper because it helps block T4-T3 conversion. Tenormin( atenolol) also helps with the high heart rate but does not effect T4-T3 conversion.So depending on which side of the coin you are on as far as hyper/hypo goes would depend on the beta blocker of choice..although beta blockers are not reccomended in cases of Asthma pateints and calcium channel blockers are used instead.Kats3boys Quote
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2006 Report Posted April 13, 2006 I take propanolol and notice that on the days I do take it (maybe 1 x weekly or so) that it does make me feel more tired. I also notice I only have the chest pains (my heart itself) when I have a reaction to an allergenic. Incidentally, since taking the Allegra(fexofenadine) the heart problems don't happen much anymore. *snort* Doctors! Bah! -med Re: New blood results >> I can't find my notes... there are two blockers... no picking on me for> spelling... Atenolol and Propanolol... one is okay to use with thyroid> hormone... one is not... but I can't remember which is which.....> anybody???> > Other than that... things are looking good.... yep... insist on the> increase at your next appointment.... > > Topper ()> > Inderal( propanolol) is used to treat the high heart rate in hyper because it helps block T4-T3 conversion. Tenormin( atenolol) also helps with the high heart rate but does not effect T4-T3 conversion.So depending on which side of the coin you are on as far as hyper/hypo goes would depend on the beta blocker of choice..although beta blockers are not reccomended in cases of Asthma pateints and calcium channel blockers are used instead.Kats3boys Quote
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2006 Report Posted April 13, 2006 Now I'm confused, as I thought Topper said that wastrue for Synthroid as well as t3 meds. Can you guysclarify for me?T Its not the t4 you have to watch out for in this way...its the t3 pills..or combo pills. You can take t4 whenever you want. ~E:)Tammy Wolfgram wrote: I've been taking Synthroid for 6 or 7 years, andno one ever told me not to take it before havingblood drawn for labs. What direction would thatpush the numbers? In other words, if you tookyour dose before the test, could it make it looklike you needed less medication?Tammy ~EG Connecticut Total-T 2 years ago / 60 mg Synthetic/135mg Armour How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates. Quote
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2006 Report Posted April 13, 2006 We might have a difference of opinion here... but I've no desire to start a debate, right, E? I just think it's better to wait until after the blood draw to dose... None of us here are docs... well, we have a couple here.. but they are lurkers, working on learning more about thyroid from us gals in the trenches...... we interpret what we read and relate it to ourselves... we pass on the info for others to consider and then it's up to you to choose what you would to explore further, or set aside... What works for one person does not work for everyone... what works for most does not work for all.... but by sharing ALL the knowledge and understanding that we have with each other we have a well of knowledge that we can then dig through and pick out what applies to us... as to how our bodies function, our particular thyroid dysfunction, the type of med we use, and the symptoms we're dealing with.... If your confused, it's GOOD to ask.... consider options and then choose what feels right to you.... No one is gonna shoot you... but we do want to hear the result... what you experience will add to the knowledge base of the group and help others. Topper () On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 18:19:24 -0500 Tammy Wolfgram writes: Now I'm confused, as I thought Topper said that was true for Synthroid as well as t3 meds. Can you guys clarify for me? T Quote
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