pH RANGES & INFO was--->Baking soda sitz bath

[Guest guest]

*smile*

I hear you 'McTwirly'.. *grin*

We sure are all different hon and I agree with you that it's probably that connection with pH levels that makes the difference.

The baking soda has a high alkaline pH content (pH 8.5) .... and the vinegar at 3 has a lower acidic pH level and generally more conducive to where 'we' should be so that is likely the difference too. An acid or alkaline pH at either end of that pH scale can be detrimental for us.

Here's 'my' reasoning, for what it's worth *grin* (long musing out loud) forgive me.

A pH of 4.5 (or less), is in the acidic range & where our vaginal levels should be. (prob. average of 3.8 to 4.3). I've seen various ranges mentioned but in that general area.

The pH scale goes from 0 to 14 and is logarithmic, which means that each step is ten times the previous one. (sort of like this)

acid neutral alkaline

<1-------*----7------------14>

In other words, a pH of * 4.5 (our V. range (and less)) , is 10 times more acidic than 5.5; 100 times more acid than 6.5' and 1,000 times more acid than 7.5.

And that is where baking soda is, even higher at 8.5, and probably why it burns & irritates 'me'. Semen & Blood are also in that upper alkaline range as well and likely a possibility of why that might irritate us (again me) .

Water is neutral at 7, so below 7 is considered acid and above is alkaline. Either end of that pH spectrum can be very potent. When I was really bad, so raw and excoriated like bloody raw hamburger? Even water irritated me and once I understood more about the pH levels I realized why.

Anyway I pulled together a few various ranges from all over just for information,

Lye is a strong alkaline at 13 pH

Baking soda is alkaline at 8.5 pH Blood is alkaline, pH of 7.4

Semen is alkaline at 7.5 to 8.1 pH (note if it's over 8.1 he may likely have an infection) Vaginal odor may be particularly prominent after unprotected intercourse because the high pH of semen.

Saliva is alkaline usually at 7.4

Water is neutral in the middle at 7 pH

Lactobacilli thrive at an acidic 3.5-4.5 pH

Normal vaginal pH approx. 3.8 to 4.2 (acidic)

Vinegar is acidic, pH of 3 Battery acid is acidic at 1 pH

A vaginal pH of 4.5 or higher may indicate a bacterial infection OR

esp. a vaginal pH of 6.0 to 7.5 (in the absence of an infection) strongly suggests menopause. The pH levels of the vagina do 'rise' with age with that loss of E. and why 'generally' menopausal women are more susceptible to bacterial infections than yeast, (not always of course but as a general rule) That acidic soup is our friend & hostile to many bacterial infections, thank goodness.

The smaller the number (pH) the more acidic, the higher the number, the less acidic & more alkaline. The Ph of the vagina is also highest during our menstrual cycles because of the blood.

Also you've probably seen me often mention about not using the Non-oxynol 9 in lubrications or lubricated condoms & spermacides as that can severely irritate us? Well with the non-oxynol #9, most lactobacilli are eradicated & wiped out by exposure to even a low dose of that it's so potent. *sigh*

You can see with blood, semen and things being high in pH levels why that might irritate us. And definitely did me. Most soaps are alkaline too and why they can irritate by the way.

There is one instance where I read that baking soda would be beneficial and it's in those who have an 'overgrowth' of lactobacilli and is termed ''lactobacillosis'' or Döderlein cytolysis. That particular condition is characterized by an ''overgrowth'' of the lactobacilli we normally consider the good bacteria and want.

In that instance the alkaline (sodium bicarbonate, baking soda) douches may increase the vaginal pH (raise it) to restore the ecosystem in order to limit the 'excessive' over proliferation of those protective organisms.

Like a yeast infection, cytolytic vaginosis is also characterized by itching and burning, painful intercourse and a slight discharge. It also tends to become more symptomatic premenstrually right before & during our periods.(plus less estrogen then and higher progesterone)

Since the symptoms are so similar, physicians often mistake a cytolytic vaginosis for a yeast infection infection instead and of course should be treated totally differently.

It can be found with a high-powered microscopic examination of vaginal secretions. Here lies the biggest clue to differentiate between a yeast infection and CV:

Under a microscope, candida/yeast has a distinctive appearance—abundant yeast-like fungal growth, and a ''low'' number of lactobacilli ("the good bacteria").

CV, on the other hand, presents with an ''overabundance'' of lactobacilli, with few yeast-like growths, and few white cells.

The overgrowth of organisms that occurs with CV causes the vaginal environment to become too acidic (a low pH).

When lactobacilli overgrow, too many acids are produced, causing vulvar irritation, burning and itching. This damages the epithelial cells of the vagina, and can cause those symptoms.

Where Candida overgrowth tends to occur in a bit of a higher pH environment (often within our normal range) but can here too, and both even coexist at the same time.

So CV and yeast/thrush as we all know can result in pain, itching and burning so you can see how easy it might be to confuse them.

Management of CV consists of stopping all antifungal treatments (oral and intravaginal), using pads instead of tampons so that menstrual blood (being higher pH) can flow unimpeded and re-balance the pH of the vagina, and taking baking soda sitz baths or douches. (higher pH to bring 'up' the too low pH level)

It may also be a good idea to stop taking any probiotic supplements that you may be using, such as lactobacillus acidophilus, you've already MORE than enough lactobacilli... and Yogurt has also been found to exacerbate CV. In other words, everything you have been told to do to treat a yeast infection is the wrong approach IF someone has CV.

One other thought that might be a clue too....

Is if someone out there finds that during or right befoe their periods they get relief esp. with the onset of their menstrual flow, it's because the blood has a high pH and so there is often dramatic relief of symptoms (where others might have more intense pain with the blood)

So if relief comes then that 'might' be a sign of CV (with a too low pH the blood counters that & relieves symptoms) and again why the baking soda can help in that particular case too (being a high pH countering one that's very low & too acidic in the vagina) .

Just an interesting side note from one article:

The case for not using Tampons:''Women should be advised to allow the menstrual flow to pass throughthe vaginal canal naturally, as the alkaline nature of menstrualfluid combines with the acidic vaginal environment, balancing thechemistry (pH) of the vagina with normal, healthy flora''

Yikes... look at that ramble, LOL and did I confuse yet?

Anyway I can see that it would depend on just what the cause of any burning or irritation might be as to whether the Baking soda, vinegar, yogurts, pro-biotics etc. might be (or not be) the best thing IF one had the CV but didnt know it.

Tho it might still be needed even if it does irritate if one had that overabundance of lactobacilli, but I can see how easy it would be to use the wrong treatments if one wasn't aware.

Whew.....what a delicate balance eh? and again sorry, as I rambled all over the place with this brain of mine, if it doesn't make sense *grin* but I hope it did.

Glad the Baking Soda doesn't irritate you hon... but I'd check anything first with whatever to see how it goes only because we are all so different.

hugs

Dee~