Re: Cindi's Saliva Test - Help

[Guest guest]

I need some help on interpreting some of this.

Estradiol was In Range at 3.5 with range of 1.0-5.0

but Progesterone was Out of Range and Low at 60 out of 100-600..

so we know the solution to that: Progesterone Cream, right?

DHEAS was In Range at 5.1 out of 3-10. Not bad.

Now here's a weird one. Testosterone was High at 53 out of 20-50.

The test says this can be due to several things. Most of them didn't apply

but it could possibly be cystic ovaries and/or menopausal transition. Any

ideas folks?

Okay - now here's the real puzzler. I thought I had adrenal fatigue...and

maybe I do...but cortisol in AM and PM test High. And here I've started the

Delta back and feel better while on it. So what's going on with me?

Cortisol morning was 13.3 out of 3-8.

Cortisol night was 2.2 out of 0.5-1.5.

It did say high cortisol is a reflection of stress (duh)...and that elevated

levels are often the result of imbalanced blood sugars between meals (eat

more?). And for sure the elevation at night would be the cause of my insomnia.

But what is going on here with the elevated levels....and do I need to quit

the Delta.

Help ladies.

Cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/10/2004 7:46:43 PM Eastern Standard Time,

tayamni@... writes:

> they are exhausted! Sputtering...maybe that is a good word....sputtering

> and backfiring.

>

>

now that you mention it...I feel like a sputterer.

Cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/10/2004 9:57:37 PM Eastern Standard Time,

marianne@... writes:

> I did see on a test kit that I am going to do later,

> that taking any steroids will skew the tests for 2 weeks. I was on the HC

> while tested.

>

I had stopped the Delta for at least two weeks before taking the test...so it

should be accurate.

Cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/11/2004 9:55:36 AM Eastern Standard Time,

jamyrogers@... writes:

>

> too high cortisol feels just like too low, maybe worse. High night cortisol

> keeps you from ever getting into deep sleep.

>

any thoughts on how long adrenal support would be needed?

Cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/11/2004 9:55:36 AM Eastern Standard Time,

jamyrogers@... writes:

>

> too high cortisol feels just like too low, maybe worse. High night cortisol

> keeps you from ever getting into deep sleep.

>

any thoughts on how long adrenal support would be needed?

Cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/11/2004 9:55:36 AM Eastern Standard Time,

jamyrogers@... writes:

>

> too high cortisol feels just like too low, maybe worse. High night cortisol

> keeps you from ever getting into deep sleep.

>

any thoughts on how long adrenal support would be needed?

Cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/11/2004 5:05:49 PM Eastern Standard Time,

jamyrogers@... writes:

> I am one of the ones that does not think you should use hc unless it is

> really warranted. I have mnay medical issues from steriods even from

> inhalers and meds as a kid

>

So what is " really warranted " ? I do know that without the Delta, I can

hardly do anything. Unrelenting fatigue and short of breath after walking the

length of my house. So I have no problem with the physiologic dosages, but the

doctors sure didn't mind putting me on massive dosages of prednisone to shut

down my adrenals. Doctors scare me. They do lots of damage. I'm trying to

heal what they not only damaged, but let go bad despite my telling them there

was

a problem.

Cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/11/2004 5:05:49 PM Eastern Standard Time,

jamyrogers@... writes:

> I am one of the ones that does not think you should use hc unless it is

> really warranted. I have mnay medical issues from steriods even from

> inhalers and meds as a kid

>

So what is " really warranted " ? I do know that without the Delta, I can

hardly do anything. Unrelenting fatigue and short of breath after walking the

length of my house. So I have no problem with the physiologic dosages, but the

doctors sure didn't mind putting me on massive dosages of prednisone to shut

down my adrenals. Doctors scare me. They do lots of damage. I'm trying to

heal what they not only damaged, but let go bad despite my telling them there

was

a problem.

Cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/11/2004 5:05:49 PM Eastern Standard Time,

jamyrogers@... writes:

> I am one of the ones that does not think you should use hc unless it is

> really warranted. I have mnay medical issues from steriods even from

> inhalers and meds as a kid

>

So what is " really warranted " ? I do know that without the Delta, I can

hardly do anything. Unrelenting fatigue and short of breath after walking the

length of my house. So I have no problem with the physiologic dosages, but the

doctors sure didn't mind putting me on massive dosages of prednisone to shut

down my adrenals. Doctors scare me. They do lots of damage. I'm trying to

heal what they not only damaged, but let go bad despite my telling them there

was

a problem.

Cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/12/2004 1:25:00 PM Eastern Standard Time,

jamyrogers@... writes:

> I am starting to see that many new thyroid patients are

> convinced that they should be taking hc and they are not aware even in small

>

> doses if not needed, there can be consequnces.

>

So you don't think that elevated cortisol levels...which some sources

indicate is a risk factor for the adrenals wearing themselves out...is enough

reason

to take adrenal support?

Cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/12/2004 1:25:00 PM Eastern Standard Time,

jamyrogers@... writes:

> I am starting to see that many new thyroid patients are

> convinced that they should be taking hc and they are not aware even in small

>

> doses if not needed, there can be consequnces.

>

So you don't think that elevated cortisol levels...which some sources

indicate is a risk factor for the adrenals wearing themselves out...is enough

reason

to take adrenal support?

Cindi

[Guest guest]

It took me a long time, but finally I had al the tests known to man taken at

once. It showed a pattern of many issues wrong, but no cortisol. My main

issues was way under medicated, low ferritin, low transferrin, low renin and

low aldosterone. I was still not treated right even with blood, urine and

saliva tests showing what was wrong, so I switched Dr's. I was then put on

florinef, higher thyroid levels , estrodiol, testosterone and massive

amounts of iron. Cortef may have helped a bit but not as well. My current DR

who has Hashi has found a direct link to aldosterone and renin issues for

thyroid patients. Unless those levels are ok, the body is thyroid med

resistant. Some people take very high doses and still feel badly where

others like me were unable to raise the levels without going into what they

called with me thyroid storm and put me on beta blockers. I was unable to

convert at all. Now I can convert so well that I have added some t4 to my

Armour. I feel pretty good in general except at 50 have a bad period this

month, to be expected I guess. HC can mask a lot of issues and does it's own

kind of damage if not needed. Yes, a bit can make you feel better if it is a

renal issue but doesn't work as well as florinef which is a specific

correction that you may need. I am a single 50 year old woman that did spend

hours on this issue since i was so sick and welfare is not an issue. I went

from unable to even stand to working full time, feeling good, even now

working out in 2 years with all my levels whether blood, urine, saliva and

even energy wise are great. If you were on massive amounts of prednisone for

something than you may have a real need to be on hc from past damage. The

best parallel I can give you on all this is that many thyroid people take

massive amounts of stimulant in the beginning for energy but it is masking

not fixing the thyroids real need for thyroid hormones. Many people really

need hc and imho many are taking it as a masking agent. If you go to

aboutboard where they have many people with much more direct medical

knowledge than I do, you will find a constant passionate split of people on

this subject. I am starting to see that many new thyroid patients are

convinced that they should be taking hc and they are not aware even in small

doses if not needed, there can be consequnces.

>From: nc2406@...

>Reply-To: NaturalThyroidHormones

>To: NaturalThyroidHormones

>Subject: Re: Cindi's Saliva Test - Help

>Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 18:57:31 EDT

>

[Guest guest]

It took me a long time, but finally I had al the tests known to man taken at

once. It showed a pattern of many issues wrong, but no cortisol. My main

issues was way under medicated, low ferritin, low transferrin, low renin and

low aldosterone. I was still not treated right even with blood, urine and

saliva tests showing what was wrong, so I switched Dr's. I was then put on

florinef, higher thyroid levels , estrodiol, testosterone and massive

amounts of iron. Cortef may have helped a bit but not as well. My current DR

who has Hashi has found a direct link to aldosterone and renin issues for

thyroid patients. Unless those levels are ok, the body is thyroid med

resistant. Some people take very high doses and still feel badly where

others like me were unable to raise the levels without going into what they

called with me thyroid storm and put me on beta blockers. I was unable to

convert at all. Now I can convert so well that I have added some t4 to my

Armour. I feel pretty good in general except at 50 have a bad period this

month, to be expected I guess. HC can mask a lot of issues and does it's own

kind of damage if not needed. Yes, a bit can make you feel better if it is a

renal issue but doesn't work as well as florinef which is a specific

correction that you may need. I am a single 50 year old woman that did spend

hours on this issue since i was so sick and welfare is not an issue. I went

from unable to even stand to working full time, feeling good, even now

working out in 2 years with all my levels whether blood, urine, saliva and

even energy wise are great. If you were on massive amounts of prednisone for

something than you may have a real need to be on hc from past damage. The

best parallel I can give you on all this is that many thyroid people take

massive amounts of stimulant in the beginning for energy but it is masking

not fixing the thyroids real need for thyroid hormones. Many people really

need hc and imho many are taking it as a masking agent. If you go to

aboutboard where they have many people with much more direct medical

knowledge than I do, you will find a constant passionate split of people on

this subject. I am starting to see that many new thyroid patients are

convinced that they should be taking hc and they are not aware even in small

doses if not needed, there can be consequnces.

>From: nc2406@...

>Reply-To: NaturalThyroidHormones

>To: NaturalThyroidHormones

>Subject: Re: Cindi's Saliva Test - Help

>Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 18:57:31 EDT

>

[Guest guest]

It took me a long time, but finally I had al the tests known to man taken at

once. It showed a pattern of many issues wrong, but no cortisol. My main

issues was way under medicated, low ferritin, low transferrin, low renin and

low aldosterone. I was still not treated right even with blood, urine and

saliva tests showing what was wrong, so I switched Dr's. I was then put on

florinef, higher thyroid levels , estrodiol, testosterone and massive

amounts of iron. Cortef may have helped a bit but not as well. My current DR

who has Hashi has found a direct link to aldosterone and renin issues for

thyroid patients. Unless those levels are ok, the body is thyroid med

resistant. Some people take very high doses and still feel badly where

others like me were unable to raise the levels without going into what they

called with me thyroid storm and put me on beta blockers. I was unable to

convert at all. Now I can convert so well that I have added some t4 to my

Armour. I feel pretty good in general except at 50 have a bad period this

month, to be expected I guess. HC can mask a lot of issues and does it's own

kind of damage if not needed. Yes, a bit can make you feel better if it is a

renal issue but doesn't work as well as florinef which is a specific

correction that you may need. I am a single 50 year old woman that did spend

hours on this issue since i was so sick and welfare is not an issue. I went

from unable to even stand to working full time, feeling good, even now

working out in 2 years with all my levels whether blood, urine, saliva and

even energy wise are great. If you were on massive amounts of prednisone for

something than you may have a real need to be on hc from past damage. The

best parallel I can give you on all this is that many thyroid people take

massive amounts of stimulant in the beginning for energy but it is masking

not fixing the thyroids real need for thyroid hormones. Many people really

need hc and imho many are taking it as a masking agent. If you go to

aboutboard where they have many people with much more direct medical

knowledge than I do, you will find a constant passionate split of people on

this subject. I am starting to see that many new thyroid patients are

convinced that they should be taking hc and they are not aware even in small

doses if not needed, there can be consequnces.

>From: nc2406@...

>Reply-To: NaturalThyroidHormones

>To: NaturalThyroidHormones

>Subject: Re: Cindi's Saliva Test - Help

>Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 18:57:31 EDT

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/12/2004 4:49:47 PM Eastern Standard Time,

jamyrogers@... writes:

> I found

> phosphatidyl seine lowered it and he,let me go into deep sleep which helped

> a lot

>

On the adrenal support...I guess that I still think folks who have been

untreated for a decade or more could benefit from adrenal support...and I know

all

the good thyroid docs seems to indicate that....so I think I will continue it

for a while. I guess I also look at my mom's autopsy which indicates a

thyroid gland destroyed by Hashimoto's - AND adrenal hyperplasia. So after

knowing

I needed thyroid meds for at least 15 years, if not longer (that's just when I

first went to a doc and had a high TSH)...and knowing physiological doses of

prednisone or hydrocortisone do no harm...it feels right to me.

But I did just order that supplement because I read that it helps reduce

elevated cortisol levels.

Cindi

[Guest guest]

No, I personally don't. I also found that many people with stressed adrenals

and too low thyroid meds have elevated night time cortisol. I found

phosphatidyl seine lowered it and he,let me go into deep sleep which helped

a lot

>From: nc2406@...

>Reply-To: NaturalThyroidHormones

>To: NaturalThyroidHormones

>Subject: Re: Cindi's Saliva Test - Help

>Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 15:11:06 EDT

>

[Guest guest]

NO, that is not always true. It is the chicken and the eggs issue with most

people getting better adrenals when they increase the thyroid meds. There

are a few and I mean very few that I have seen that have a complete adrenal

failure because their adrenals were too weak to handle the thyroid meds. I

have not seen many of those but i have seen many people that had bad

reactions taking HC when not warranted. Steriods do a lot to the body and a

risk is assotiated with taking them. As I said before, there are two very

opposed sides on this issue. I just have seen too many people that started

having reactions to metals, foods, liver issues, bone changes, etc on HC

>From: nc2406@...

>Reply-To: NaturalThyroidHormones

>To: NaturalThyroidHormones

>Subject: Re: Cindi's Saliva Test - Help

>Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 16:57:44 EDT

>

[Guest guest]

Well, I found not all are alike. That they say 100 mg but some have 10

percent of it and then they give 100 percent of that. Very confusing. I was

taking 100 mg a pill that my last DR sold and that seemed to help. Then I

ran out and bought a brand called jarrow. I flt worse. Now I am on

Lessman and feel great and my cortisol dropped to the low end of normal at

night instead of over the top at 14.

>

>Reply-To: NaturalThyroidHormones

>To: <NaturalThyroidHormones >

>Subject: Cindi's Saliva Test - Help

>Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:09:36 -0600

>

[Guest guest]

Well, I found not all are alike. That they say 100 mg but some have 10

percent of it and then they give 100 percent of that. Very confusing. I was

taking 100 mg a pill that my last DR sold and that seemed to help. Then I

ran out and bought a brand called jarrow. I flt worse. Now I am on

Lessman and feel great and my cortisol dropped to the low end of normal at

night instead of over the top at 14.

>

>Reply-To: NaturalThyroidHormones

>To: <NaturalThyroidHormones >

>Subject: Cindi's Saliva Test - Help

>Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:09:36 -0600

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Jamy,

You said you've seen too many people start having reactions to

metals, foods, liver issues, bone changes, etc. from taking

hydrocortisone. Could you explain what kinds of reactions to metals

and foods? And by bone changes do you mean osteoporosis? I'm only

taking 7.5 mg hc daily because of a sensitive stomach but it seems to

be helping me tolerate Armour. Thanks.

Steriods do a lot to the body and a

> risk is assotiated with taking them. As I said before, there are

two very

> opposed sides on this issue. I just have seen too many people that

started

> having reactions to metals, foods, liver issues, bone changes, etc

on HC

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Jamy,

You said you've seen too many people start having reactions to

metals, foods, liver issues, bone changes, etc. from taking

hydrocortisone. Could you explain what kinds of reactions to metals

and foods? And by bone changes do you mean osteoporosis? I'm only

taking 7.5 mg hc daily because of a sensitive stomach but it seems to

be helping me tolerate Armour. Thanks.

Steriods do a lot to the body and a

> risk is assotiated with taking them. As I said before, there are

two very

> opposed sides on this issue. I just have seen too many people that

started

> having reactions to metals, foods, liver issues, bone changes, etc

on HC

>