Guest guest Posted June 18, 2007 Report Share Posted June 18, 2007 That's great advice, Ute. That's what I did and now 18 months later, I am in remission. I encourage everyone who has done this course of treatment successfully to tell everyone about it as often as they can. Good Luck, Dolores Ute <nowyoga@...> wrote: Kamran, Most doctors in the US, and other places, are not enthusiastic about antibiotics for rheumatic diseases either. That's why we have to educate ourselves and take the initiative to obtain the treatment of our choice, AP. This list and the website www.rheumatic.org are here specifically to support us in that endeavor. I encourage you not so sit back and let someone else make the decisions concerning your health. Take care, Ute --------------------------------- TV dinner still cooling? Check out " Tonight's Picks " on TV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 18, 2007 Report Share Posted June 18, 2007 I started having flareups in May of 2006. Had to wait until August to see the Rheumatologist, who prescribed large doses of NSAIDS, and did all the blood tests. Which confirmed the RA. Three months later, after I had done a LOT of online research and reading, I met with him again. I had started working on trying to correct problems with my colon, as " leaky gut " is pointed out as a strong causative factor in RA. I had also been compiling a list of foods that seemed to trigger the flare-ups. And I had been reading all about Minocycline. I asked him to prescribe the Minocycline. He surprised me by saying he would. We discussed the way in which that antibiotic works against RA...he seemed to feel that it simply depressed the inflammation response, while what I had read indicated that it went after certain types of bacteria in the inflamed joints. I started taking 100mg twice a day, and in TEN DAYS the inflammations subsided. Within one month I was able to eat all the " forbidden foods " without any problems. I stayed on it for about 10 weeks, then had a sudden problem with spotting and a bout of the flu. So I stopped. It apparantly had an effect on the HRT I was taking. But the flareups had not come back when I saw the Dr. again 10 days later, so we decided to have me wait and see how long the " cure " lasted. In all, it took six weeks for them to start up again, (the flareups came back only after I had eaten something that was apparently riddled with bacteria, and gave me intestinal distress for three days....) and I went back on the minocycline. I have now dropped back to taking just one per day, only six days a week, and am still free of problems, everything normal. I can eat any food I want. I am still working on that gut thing, which is definitely the source-causative agent. I did find that a couple of knuckle joints had started to swell up after about a month on the two-a-day dose the second time, and going down to one a day corrected that. I could tell that the issue with the knuckles swelling was not an RA thing...it was just different, but very noticeable. and they say that joint swelling can be a side effect. But no other joints have given me any problems, and the knuckles all have gone back to normal sizes. It took about a week. So far, so good, and it has now been a year since this started, and December since the minocycline...which seems to be working. Regards mousey > > Kamran, > Most doctors in the US, and other places, are not enthusiastic about > antibiotics for rheumatic diseases either. That's why we have to educate > ourselves and take the initiative to obtain the treatment of our choice, > AP. This list and the website www.rheumatic.org are here specifically to > support us in that endeavor. I encourage you not so sit back and let > someone else make the decisions concerning your health. > Take care, > Ute > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 18, 2007 Report Share Posted June 18, 2007 Hi Ute I am trying to get under the skin of doctors here some how but they have a very hard shell because of their education's system. But I am not diagnosed yet and will be back to doctor after 4-5 months. Right now the only blod value which shows some kind of problem is my anti CCP which is around 250. They say I have to wait. And it is for the better cause I don't want to get any grug until it is absolutely necessary. Kamran rheumatic Kamran and AP Kamran, Most doctors in the US, and other places, are not enthusiastic about antibiotics for rheumatic diseases either. That's why we have to educate ourselves and take the initiative to obtain the treatment of our choice, AP. This list and the website www.rheumatic.org are here specifically to support us in that endeavor. I encourage you not so sit back and let someone else make the decisions concerning your health. Take care, Ute ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.9.0/852 - Release Date: 2007-06-17 08:23 -- Jag använder gratisversionen av SPAMfighter för privata användare. 3801 spam har blivit blockerade hittills. Betalande användare har inte detta meddelande i sin e-post. Hämta gratis SPAMfighter här: http://www.spamfighter.com/lsv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 18, 2007 Report Share Posted June 18, 2007 thanks Mousey for sharing your history. It is very hope giving. Though I know that there are many places on the net to find writings about " good " and " bad " foods I would like to ask you write down a list of those food which trigger you and vise versa. Could you? I would appreciate. Kamran rheumatic Re: Kamran and AP I started having flareups in May of 2006. Had to wait until August to see the Rheumatologist, who prescribed large doses of NSAIDS, and did all the blood tests. Which confirmed the RA. Three months later, after I had done a LOT of online research and reading, I met with him again. I had started working on trying to correct problems with my colon, as " leaky gut " is pointed out as a strong causative factor in RA. I had also been compiling a list of foods that seemed to trigger the flare-ups. And I had been reading all about Minocycline. I asked him to prescribe the Minocycline. He surprised me by saying he would. We discussed the way in which that antibiotic works against RA...he seemed to feel that it simply depressed the inflammation response, while what I had read indicated that it went after certain types of bacteria in the inflamed joints. I started taking 100mg twice a day, and in TEN DAYS the inflammations subsided. Within one month I was able to eat all the " forbidden foods " without any problems. I stayed on it for about 10 weeks, then had a sudden problem with spotting and a bout of the flu. So I stopped. It apparantly had an effect on the HRT I was taking. But the flareups had not come back when I saw the Dr. again 10 days later, so we decided to have me wait and see how long the " cure " lasted. In all, it took six weeks for them to start up again, (the flareups came back only after I had eaten something that was apparently riddled with bacteria, and gave me intestinal distress for three days....) and I went back on the minocycline. I have now dropped back to taking just one per day, only six days a week, and am still free of problems, everything normal. I can eat any food I want. I am still working on that gut thing, which is definitely the source-causative agent. I did find that a couple of knuckle joints had started to swell up after about a month on the two-a-day dose the second time, and going down to one a day corrected that. I could tell that the issue with the knuckles swelling was not an RA thing...it was just different, but very noticeable. and they say that joint swelling can be a side effect. But no other joints have given me any problems, and the knuckles all have gone back to normal sizes. It took about a week. So far, so good, and it has now been a year since this started, and December since the minocycline...which seems to be working. Regards mousey > > Kamran, > Most doctors in the US, and other places, are not enthusiastic about > antibiotics for rheumatic diseases either. That's why we have to educate > ourselves and take the initiative to obtain the treatment of our choice, > AP. This list and the website www.rheumatic.org are here specifically to > support us in that endeavor. I encourage you not so sit back and let > someone else make the decisions concerning your health. > Take care, > Ute > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.9.0/852 - Release Date: 2007-06-17 08:23 -- Jag använder gratisversionen av SPAMfighter för privata användare. 3801 spam har blivit blockerade hittills. Betalande användare har inte detta meddelande i sin e-post. Hämta gratis SPAMfighter här: http://www.spamfighter.com/lsv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 18, 2007 Report Share Posted June 18, 2007 Hi Kamran, As far as I'm concerned 'they dance while Rome burns' . It would be advantageous to deal with rheumatic diseases as soon as possible. They are not in a hurry because they don't really have anything to offer that alters the disease. Plus their medicines are so toxic that they sometimes want to wait to start them. As far as diagnosis, many rheumatic diseases respond to Minocin. It takes sometimes years for sero-negative RA to turn positive; you can't wait. In the US, we are finding that often our family doctors are easier to convince to let us try AP than rheumatologists. Even naturopaths have been more helpful. Perhaps there is someone on this list from Sweden or a nearby country who has an AP doctor. People travel for holidays, they can for health. If you can't service within a certain health care system, pay out of pocket. You can't invest in something more precious than your health. Take care, Ute Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 18, 2007 Report Share Posted June 18, 2007 As I have said before on this forum, I am most probably moving to OC in LA/US in very near future. I believe that there are some AP doctors there around LA. Any one who has an exact address or perhaps their e-mail resp. website there I can contact directly? Otherwise I am going to ask my family doctor to look into it. The problem could be that those doctors who have not had any experience whit using AP can not deal with the side effects and to have the procedure under control. Ain't it so? Kamran Re: rheumatic Kamran and AP Hi Kamran, As far as I'm concerned 'they dance while Rome burns' . It would be advantageous to deal with rheumatic diseases as soon as possible. They are not in a hurry because they don't really have anything to offer that alters the disease. Plus their medicines are so toxic that they sometimes want to wait to start them. As far as diagnosis, many rheumatic diseases respond to Minocin. It takes sometimes years for sero-negative RA to turn positive; you can't wait. In the US, we are finding that often our family doctors are easier to convince to let us try AP than rheumatologists. Even naturopaths have been more helpful. Perhaps there is someone on this list from Sweden or a nearby country who has an AP doctor. People travel for holidays, they can for health. If you can't service within a certain health care system, pay out of pocket. You can't invest in something more precious than your health. Take care, Ute ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.9.0/852 - Release Date: 2007-06-17 08:23 -- Jag använder gratisversionen av SPAMfighter för privata användare. 3801 spam har blivit blockerade hittills. Betalande användare har inte detta meddelande i sin e-post. Hämta gratis SPAMfighter här: http://www.spamfighter.com/lsv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 18, 2007 Report Share Posted June 18, 2007 Go to the www.roadback .org foundation, click on Bulletin Board, scroll down, click on I agree. The bulletin board opens. Read some of the posts. Then go up to post, put in your name, e-mail address and post your request for an A/P doc in the area where you plan to live. Ask for Richie. He will answer you privately as the site does not allow advertising. He has a roster full of A/P docs all over the country and various parts of the world. That's how I got my contact. Went on A/P and now 18 months later, I am in remission. Good luck! Dolores Kamran Jamshidi <kamran.jamshidi@...> wrote: As I have said before on this forum, I am most probably moving to OC in LA/US in very near future. I believe that there are some AP doctors there around LA. Any one who has an exact address or perhaps their e-mail resp. website there I can contact directly? Otherwise I am going to ask my family doctor to look into it. The problem could be that those doctors who have not had any experience whit using AP can not deal with the side effects and to have the procedure under control. Ain't it so? Kamran Re: rheumatic Kamran and AP Hi Kamran, As far as I'm concerned 'they dance while Rome burns' . It would be advantageous to deal with rheumatic diseases as soon as possible. They are not in a hurry because they don't really have anything to offer that alters the disease. Plus their medicines are so toxic that they sometimes want to wait to start them. As far as diagnosis, many rheumatic diseases respond to Minocin. It takes sometimes years for sero-negative RA to turn positive; you can't wait. In the US, we are finding that often our family doctors are easier to convince to let us try AP than rheumatologists. Even naturopaths have been more helpful. Perhaps there is someone on this list from Sweden or a nearby country who has an AP doctor. People travel for holidays, they can for health. If you can't service within a certain health care system, pay out of pocket. You can't invest in something more precious than your health. Take care, Ute ---------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.9.0/852 - Release Date: 2007-06-17 08:23 -- Jag använder gratisversionen av SPAMfighter för privata användare. 3801 spam har blivit blockerade hittills. Betalande användare har inte detta meddelande i sin e-post. Hämta gratis SPAMfighter här: http://www.spamfighter.com/lsv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 18, 2007 Report Share Posted June 18, 2007 Kamran, You must realize that everyone is different from everyone else and have extenuating circumstances and other diseases that you do or don't have. So, there is no standard diet for everyone. It is up to you to start listening to your own body and weed out the foods that don't agree with you. Get tested for celiac disease, lactose intolerance, diabetes and a whole host of other diseases that would have an impact on your body. Also, test your supplements and your vitamins. Check your meats, white & red, fish etc. Shellfish, eggs. There are so many foods that if we started a general list it would wipe out every food on the planet. You have to take matters into your own hands and control your own disease. Nobody else can do that for you. Buy the books by Henry Scammell & Dr. Brown and read about the " Infectious Theory " and the Antibiotic Protocol. Getting better is going to be your only job for the next two years at least. So, buckle down and start educating yourself. We will give you the keys, but you must open the doors yourself in order to understand and be successful. Good Luck! Dolores Kamran Jamshidi <kamran.jamshidi@...> wrote: thanks Mousey for sharing your history. It is very hope giving. Though I know that there are many places on the net to find writings about " good " and " bad " foods I would like to ask you write down a list of those food which trigger you and vise versa. Could you? I would appreciate. Kamran rheumatic Re: Kamran and AP I started having flareups in May of 2006. Had to wait until August to see the Rheumatologist, who prescribed large doses of NSAIDS, and did all the blood tests. Which confirmed the RA. Three months later, after I had done a LOT of online research and reading, I met with him again. I had started working on trying to correct problems with my colon, as " leaky gut " is pointed out as a strong causative factor in RA. I had also been compiling a list of foods that seemed to trigger the flare-ups. And I had been reading all about Minocycline. I asked him to prescribe the Minocycline. He surprised me by saying he would. We discussed the way in which that antibiotic works against RA...he seemed to feel that it simply depressed the inflammation response, while what I had read indicated that it went after certain types of bacteria in the inflamed joints. I started taking 100mg twice a day, and in TEN DAYS the inflammations subsided. Within one month I was able to eat all the " forbidden foods " without any problems. I stayed on it for about 10 weeks, then had a sudden problem with spotting and a bout of the flu. So I stopped. It apparantly had an effect on the HRT I was taking. But the flareups had not come back when I saw the Dr. again 10 days later, so we decided to have me wait and see how long the " cure " lasted. In all, it took six weeks for them to start up again, (the flareups came back only after I had eaten something that was apparently riddled with bacteria, and gave me intestinal distress for three days....) and I went back on the minocycline. I have now dropped back to taking just one per day, only six days a week, and am still free of problems, everything normal. I can eat any food I want. I am still working on that gut thing, which is definitely the source-causative agent. I did find that a couple of knuckle joints had started to swell up after about a month on the two-a-day dose the second time, and going down to one a day corrected that. I could tell that the issue with the knuckles swelling was not an RA thing...it was just different, but very noticeable. and they say that joint swelling can be a side effect. But no other joints have given me any problems, and the knuckles all have gone back to normal sizes. It took about a week. So far, so good, and it has now been a year since this started, and December since the minocycline...which seems to be working. Regards mousey > > Kamran, > Most doctors in the US, and other places, are not enthusiastic about > antibiotics for rheumatic diseases either. That's why we have to educate > ourselves and take the initiative to obtain the treatment of our choice, > AP. This list and the website www.rheumatic.org are here specifically to > support us in that endeavor. I encourage you not so sit back and let > someone else make the decisions concerning your health. > Take care, > Ute > ---------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.9.0/852 - Release Date: 2007-06-17 08:23 -- Jag använder gratisversionen av SPAMfighter för privata användare. 3801 spam har blivit blockerade hittills. Betalande användare har inte detta meddelande i sin e-post. Hämta gratis SPAMfighter här: http://www.spamfighter.com/lsv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 18, 2007 Report Share Posted June 18, 2007 Hi Kamran, This site is not about slamming docs and their educational system. It is about you educating yourself about your own disease. Stop whining and get to work reading. I've given you some good starts, now get to work! Dolores Kamran Jamshidi <kamran.jamshidi@...> wrote: Hi Ute I am trying to get under the skin of doctors here some how but they have a very hard shell because of their education's system. But I am not diagnosed yet and will be back to doctor after 4-5 months. Right now the only blod value which shows some kind of problem is my anti CCP which is around 250. They say I have to wait. And it is for the better cause I don't want to get any grug until it is absolutely necessary. Kamran rheumatic Kamran and AP Kamran, Most doctors in the US, and other places, are not enthusiastic about antibiotics for rheumatic diseases either. That's why we have to educate ourselves and take the initiative to obtain the treatment of our choice, AP. This list and the website www.rheumatic.org are here specifically to support us in that endeavor. I encourage you not so sit back and let someone else make the decisions concerning your health. Take care, Ute ---------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.9.0/852 - Release Date: 2007-06-17 08:23 -- Jag använder gratisversionen av SPAMfighter för privata användare. 3801 spam har blivit blockerade hittills. Betalande användare har inte detta meddelande i sin e-post. Hämta gratis SPAMfighter här: http://www.spamfighter.com/lsv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 Dear Dolores Thanks for you advises and guidance. I undertstand your point and try to do so. It is just that I am new in this area and it is sometimes so frustrating to not know what is wrong with your body, and then the pessimistic words from doctors like " there is no cure " ! But I am optimistic and will do my research. Have already bought the books from Amazon and they are on the way. Read also websites. My first thought for the moment, when I read this problems with healt care system in US and upgoing prices of good antibiotics is that whether it is a wise decision to come to US instead of living in Europe? Of course there are many other factors playing role which are personal but I meant just the health care system. Any way thanks for being there and hearing. Wishing us the best Kamran rheumatic Re: Kamran and AP I started having flareups in May of 2006. Had to wait until August to see the Rheumatologist, who prescribed large doses of NSAIDS, and did all the blood tests. Which confirmed the RA. Three months later, after I had done a LOT of online research and reading, I met with him again. I had started working on trying to correct problems with my colon, as " leaky gut " is pointed out as a strong causative factor in RA. I had also been compiling a list of foods that seemed to trigger the flare-ups. And I had been reading all about Minocycline. I asked him to prescribe the Minocycline. He surprised me by saying he would. We discussed the way in which that antibiotic works against RA...he seemed to feel that it simply depressed the inflammation response, while what I had read indicated that it went after certain types of bacteria in the inflamed joints. I started taking 100mg twice a day, and in TEN DAYS the inflammations subsided. Within one month I was able to eat all the " forbidden foods " without any problems. I stayed on it for about 10 weeks, then had a sudden problem with spotting and a bout of the flu. So I stopped. It apparantly had an effect on the HRT I was taking. But the flareups had not come back when I saw the Dr. again 10 days later, so we decided to have me wait and see how long the " cure " lasted. In all, it took six weeks for them to start up again, (the flareups came back only after I had eaten something that was apparently riddled with bacteria, and gave me intestinal distress for three days....) and I went back on the minocycline. I have now dropped back to taking just one per day, only six days a week, and am still free of problems, everything normal. I can eat any food I want. I am still working on that gut thing, which is definitely the source-causative agent. I did find that a couple of knuckle joints had started to swell up after about a month on the two-a-day dose the second time, and going down to one a day corrected that. I could tell that the issue with the knuckles swelling was not an RA thing...it was just different, but very noticeable. and they say that joint swelling can be a side effect. But no other joints have given me any problems, and the knuckles all have gone back to normal sizes. It took about a week. So far, so good, and it has now been a year since this started, and December since the minocycline...which seems to be working. Regards mousey > > Kamran, > Most doctors in the US, and other places, are not enthusiastic about > antibiotics for rheumatic diseases either. That's why we have to educate > ourselves and take the initiative to obtain the treatment of our choice, > AP. This list and the website www.rheumatic.org are here specifically to > support us in that endeavor. I encourage you not so sit back and let > someone else make the decisions concerning your health. > Take care, > Ute > ---------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.9.0/852 - Release Date: 2007-06-17 08:23 -- Jag använder gratisversionen av SPAMfighter för privata användare. 3801 spam har blivit blockerade hittills. Betalande användare har inte detta meddelande i sin e-post. Hämta gratis SPAMfighter här: http://www.spamfighter.com/lsv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 Hi Karam; There is no such thing as good foods and bad foods other than high fat and sugary ones.You do know that food sensitivities will cause your immune system to try and fight the problem and it therefore does not have enough strenght to fight a disease.By omitting certain foods for a year or two that helps a lot and eventually you can bring them back into your diet. You rarely feel a food sensitivityA food allergy makes you sick almost immediately and you cannot eat those anymore.You should have your doctor take a blood sample and send it to U.S. Bio Tek 13500 Linden Ave north,Seattle Washington 98133 U.S.A. They will do an IgG and IgE test and send him the print out of what you can and cannot have Lynne Kamran Jamshidi wrote: > thanks Mousey for sharing your history. It is very hope giving. > Though I know that there are many places on the net to find writings > about " good " and " bad " > foods I would like to ask you write down a list of those food which > trigger you and vise versa. Could you? > I would appreciate. > > Kamran > rheumatic Re: Kamran and AP > > I started having flareups in May of 2006. Had to wait until August > to see the Rheumatologist, who prescribed large doses of NSAIDS, and > did all the blood tests. Which confirmed the RA. Three months later, > after I had done a LOT of online research and reading, I met with him > again. I had started working on trying to correct problems with my > colon, as " leaky gut " is pointed out as a strong causative factor in > RA. I had also been compiling a list of foods that seemed to trigger > the flare-ups. And I had been reading all about Minocycline. I asked > him to prescribe the Minocycline. He surprised me by saying he would. > We discussed the way in which that antibiotic works against RA...he > seemed to feel that it simply depressed the inflammation response, > while what I had read indicated that it went after certain types of > bacteria in the inflamed joints. I started taking 100mg twice a day, > and in TEN DAYS the inflammations subsided. Within one month I was > able to eat all the " forbidden foods " without any problems. I stayed > on it for about 10 weeks, then had a sudden problem with spotting and > a bout of the flu. So I stopped. It apparantly had an effect on the > HRT I was taking. But the flareups had not come back when I saw the > Dr. again 10 days later, so we decided to have me wait and see how > long the " cure " lasted. In all, it took six weeks for them to start > up again, (the flareups came back only after I had eaten something > that was apparently riddled with bacteria, and gave me intestinal > distress for three days....) and I went back on the minocycline. I > have now dropped back to taking just one per day, only six days a > week, and am still free of problems, everything normal. I can eat any > food I want. I am still working on that gut thing, which is > definitely the source-causative agent. > > I did find that a couple of knuckle joints had started to swell up > after about a month on the two-a-day dose the second time, and going > down to one a day corrected that. I could tell that the issue with > the knuckles swelling was not an RA thing...it was just different, > but very noticeable. and they say that joint swelling can be a side > effect. But no other joints have given me any problems, and the > knuckles all have gone back to normal sizes. It took about a week. > > So far, so good, and it has now been a year since this started, and > December since the minocycline...which seems to be working. > > Regards > > mousey > > > > > > Kamran, > > Most doctors in the US, and other places, are not enthusiastic > about > > antibiotics for rheumatic diseases either. That's why we have to > educate > > ourselves and take the initiative to obtain the treatment of our > choice, > > AP. This list and the website www.rheumatic.org are here > specifically to > > support us in that endeavor. I encourage you not so sit back and > let > > someone else make the decisions concerning your health. > > Take care, > > Ute > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.9.0/852 - Release Date: > 2007-06-17 08:23 > > -- > Jag använder gratisversionen av SPAMfighter för privata användare. > 3801 spam har blivit blockerade hittills. > Betalande användare har inte detta meddelande i sin e-post. > Hämta gratis SPAMfighter här: http://www.spamfighter.com/lsv > <http://www.spamfighter.com/lsv> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 Alas, if that were only true. And, I still agree that most people here are > very lucky with the healthcare they receive. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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