Blood Test results

March 18, 2009

Hi Sheila, Traceytoo,

Taking T3 only will

surely result in low/zero T4

Subject: RE:

Blood test results

Hi

TraceyToo

Is

this a correct reading " Free T4 - 2.1 " ? Did you leave off the 1

before the 2 - so it should be reading 12.1. Yes, your Free T3 is high. If you

took your T3 before you had your blood drawn, this might explain why it looks so

high - this is a flawed result. The T3 spikes in the blood a couple of hours or

so after you have taken it. You should stop taking thyroid medication for at

least 24 hours before a thyroid function test is done. If however, you had not

taken any T3 for 24 hours, then yes, it is very high, and it might

benefit you to drop your dose, especially if you are getting the symptoms of

being hyPERthyroid? Are you getting palpitations, sweating, dizziness,

feeling 'spaced out' and fidgety? Even though T4 is a mainly inactive hormone,

it is still needed and if you are not making any T4 naturally (and it appears

you are not) you may need to start taking some. Can you ask your GP to contact

the consultant you are going to see on the 30th to ask what his recommendations

are concerning your blood results and the medication you are taking. It is no

wonder you are feeling so rotten.

Luv - Sheila

Went to GP because feeling tired, lethargic, foggy, shaky, wobbly......

TSH - 0.03 (0.35-5.5)

Free T4 - 2.1 (11.5-22.7)

Free T3 - 9.0 (3.5-6.5)

He is now thinking that MAYBE I am actually HYPERthyroid rather than

HYPOthyroid and that perhaps I am taking too much T3? Anyway, he kept stressing

he wasn't an expert but has suggested I reduce my T3.

Messages

in this topic (21) Reply (via web post)

| Start a new topic

Messages

| Files

| Photos

| Polls

TPA is not medically qualified. Consult with a

qualified medical practitioner before changing medication.

Change

settings via the Web ( ID required)

Change settings via email: Switch

delivery to Daily Digest | Switch

format to Traditional

Visit

Your Group |

Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

Recent

Activity

·

26

New

Members

·

5

New

Photos

·

4

New

Files

Visit

Your Group

Give Back

for Good

Get

inspired

by a

good cause.

Y! Toolbar

Get it Free!

easy

1-click access

to your

groups.

Start a group

in 3

easy steps.

Connect

with others.

..

No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG.

Version: 7.5.557 / Virus Database: 270.11.9/1993 - Release Date: 10/03/2009

07:19

No virus found in this outgoing message.

Checked by AVG.

Version: 7.5.557 / Virus Database: 270.11.10/1995 - Release Date: 11/03/2009 08:28

March 18, 2009

Hi ,

If you were overdosing you would feel hot and whizzy,

do you? Remember to dose increase will not balance out for at least 25 days so

a way to go yet. You may well be right with suspecting adrenals. Check your

symptoms on http://www.drrind.com/scorecardmatrix.asp

Subject:

blood test results

Afternoon

everyone,

Am now on 3

grains Armour per day in two split doses (only went up to 3 grains this week,

possibly a bit too high now) plus all the usual supps inc 5 NA.Temps have

dropped slightly to 36.4 - 36.6 on average.Heart rate is 84-90 bpm on average.

Results were:

TSH

.03 can't remember ref range

Free

T4 10.6

range 12 - 22 (was 13.7 on same ref range in Jan)

Free

T3

4.6 range 4 - 7.8 (was 4.4 on same ref range in Jan)

Any interpretation of those results are most welcome,

hope y'all

doin' better than meand, isn't the promise of Spring a joy............

julia

March 18, 2009

HI Shiela & ,

I am on Tertroxin (T3) only as well & have been for over 6 months now.

Current daily dose is 80mcg.

When I test Thyroid my TSH is undetectable, as is my FT4!!!Which is exactly

where me & my Doc want it to be!!!

You do NOT need FT4 at all it is only a storage hormone. What IS absolutely

necessary is T3 as that is the ACTIVE hormone used by the body. When on T3 only

you need to keep FT3 at top or just over range as you do not have the FT4

" storage " hormone to convert to FT3.

I cant take any T4 as I only convert it to RT3. After NTH (Aussie Armour)for

almost 2 years it took almost 4 months on high dose T3 to clear the RT3. I also

need to take enough T3 to COMPLETELY suppress my own T4 so none of that coverts

to RT3 either. My conversion problem is caused by Mercury Toxicity ALL other

possible causes have been fixed. I cant afford to remove Amalgams & it would

take many years to detox the Mercury in my body after removal anyway (Amalgams

over 40 yeasr old).

There are people on T3 only who have happily & healthily existed on it for many

years. I'm pretty sure Dr Lowe is one of them!!!

As for your results the numbers are fine. In fact the FT3 may be too low as you

had your T3 just before the blood draw the result would be inflated. I take my

last T3 at night before bed some 12 hours before tesing FT3 levels at 8am the

following morning. I dont think stopping T3 for 24 hours would be necessary.

Why are you on T3 only? was it to clear RT3? If so how long have you been on

T3? It takes 8-12 weeks to clear RT3. What dose of T3 are you on? Feeling bad

may be related to still being HypoThyroid IF the RT3 is still blocking your

receptors & not allowing RT3 to get to cells.

" I do have all of the symptoms you suggested but I am also so terribly tired and

cold. I think my body is very confused! "

Whats most important is how you are feeling. Sorry I dont understand what you

are saying here. Did you mean you ARE having " palpitations, sweating, dizziness,

feeling 'spaced out' and fidgety " plus " terribly tired and cold " ?

If you are you may have cleared the RT3 & maybe a bit HyperT.

How's your basal & av daily temps? Hows your BP & HR at rest & standing? Do you

have any muscle weakness (especially legs) or any arm/hand tremors?

Are your Adrenals fully supported. Nutritional aspects all optimised (Ferritin,

Vit D, B12, Mag, Potassium, Vit C etc). Sweating, dizziness, palps can also be

caused by electrolyte issues. Have you tested Aldosterone, Renin, Sodium &

Potassium?

I would suggest retesting your FT3 at 8am with last T3 dose at least 12 hours

before the test to see what your levels really are. Can you arrange to test

yourself or will your Doc agree to do this if you explain your error in having

taken T3 just before last test?

Lethal Lee

March 18, 2009

Hi Lee, Can you advise the name of your doc in Australia please as I am often

asked for names of aussi docs who know how to treat thyroid.

jennyfreeman

>

> I cant take any T4 as I only convert it to RT3. After NTH (Aussie Armour)for

almost 2 years it took almost 4 months on high dose T3 to clear the RT3. I also

need to take enough T3 to COMPLETELY suppress my own T4 so none of that coverts

to RT3 either. My convers

>

> Lethal Lee

>

March 19, 2009

Hi ,

" Hi Lee, Can you advise the name of your doc in Australia please as I am often

asked for names of aussi docs who know how to treat thyroid.

jennyfreeman "

sent you a pm

Lethal Lee

March 22, 2009

Hi Emmy,

The point is that there is no point in your results being

'normal' when you feel far from it! TSH is good, but the FT4 is only

just off the bottom of the range and such a low body temp is close to

hypothermia. Ask doc for a dose increase as 100mcg T4 isn't a big dose-

most folk on full replacement take 125 to 150mcg. If he refuses then ask

for a referral to a thyroid endo ( most are diabetes so can be a waste

of time). If he refuses that, then write a letter to him, head of

practice and PALS complaining of lack of treatment. Alternatively go

private. The difference in proper treatment can be amazing!

Subject: Blood test results

Hi everyone

It my first visit to the message site.

I've had under active thyriod since I was in my teens & been on

thyroxine for about 20yrs (100mcg daily), the thing is I can't remember

the last time i felt really well. Every time I tell my doctor how I feel

he just say's your in normal range.

Today I got my latest results back TSH 1.53 & T4 12.6, I've been taking

my temp every morning for 2 weeks & the average it 36C. Are these rests

normal?

------------------------------------

TPA is not medically qualified. Consult with a qualified medical

practitioner before changing medication.

May 26, 2009

HI Nik

Your FT4 is very high and so is your FT3 so you might be feeling

bad because you could be taking too much levothyroxine - or it could be that

you are suffering with adrenal fatigue or you have systemic candidiasis. You

can get these tested through Genoval Diagnostics (the NHS won't do them) www.gdx.uk.net and ask your GP to test to see

if you have low ferritin, B12, Vitamin D3, zinc, copper or magnesium. Go to our

FILES section and look at the FOLDER which has general information for patients

and you will find a file there entitled something along the lines of " First

visit to Endocrinologist " - and you can pick up loads of ideas from there.

One thing I would strongly recommend you do, and that is to take somebody with

you.

luv - Sheila

HI I had thyroid cancer last year and had my

thyroid removed completely last Sept,I have been on 200mcg per day of

Levothyroxine and have been ok up until about 5 weeks ago when I started

getting all my old symptoms of hypo back. I have had a basic blood test at the

doctors, can someone see what they think about these and any suggestions?

Serum TSH 0.3 (0.4 - 4.0)

Free T4 25.5 (10.6 - 21.0)

free T3 5.0 (3.2 - 5.9)

My white blood cell count is 11.3 (4.0 - 11.0) neutrphils are high

My erythrpcyte sedimentation rate is 27mm 1st hr (0-20) which is high

My sodium level is high 147mmol/l (138 -146)

May 26, 2009

HI Sheila, Thanks ever so much for looking at these for me, but I don't think i

am suffering from symptoms of hyperthyroidism, mine are identical to last year

when I had to stop taking my thyroxine before I had my radiation treatment. I

think it may be one of the last two, and I will definately look into getting

those tested. Why do the NHS not test for this even though it may be the cause?

>

> HI Nik

>

> Your FT4 is very high and so is your FT3 so you might be feeling bad because

you could be taking too much levothyroxine - or it could be that you are

suffering with adrenal fatigue or you have systemic candidiasis. You can get

these tested through Genoval Diagnostics (the NHS won't do them) www.gdx.uk.net

and ask your GP to test to see if you have low ferritin, B12, Vitamin D3, zinc,

copper or magnesium. Go to our FILES section

[Edit Abbrev Mod]

June 27, 2009

Hi Carole,

When is that tiny dose of T4 going to be increased- TSH too

high and FT4 too low!

Subject: blood test results

Hi! I know I now have a liver problem, which is something else caused

by thyroid as far as Im aware, and more tests being done to eliminate

the more serious stuff hopefully. Im taking milk thistle support, one

525 cap daily, is that enough? reminder, I take 50mcg levothyroxine

daily and one capsule adrenal cortex by nutricology, selenium and so on,

and I do have antibodies.

happy deciphering!!

Ft4 15.9 (10-25)

TSH 2.16 (0.3-6.0)

Carole

------------------------------------

TPA is not medically qualified. Consult with a qualified medical

practitioner before changing medication.

June 27, 2009

Hi

it isnt going to be raised because the endo says its fine and he is happy with

it where it is. (its within the range), when I asked about symptoms he put them

down to my other conditions, mainly the M.E. Dont see him again till November

now.

Carole

<jennystenning@...> wrote:

>

> Hi Carole,

> When is that tiny dose of T4 going to be increased- TSH too

> high and FT4 too low!

>

June 28, 2009

Hi Carole

This group was formed to help those patients who were/are not

doing well within the NHS because teaching of hypothyroidism in the medical schools

is quite deplorable. We have learned here through research and experience that

if you still have symptoms and signs of hypothyroidism on the dose of levothyroxine

that you are taking that there are several things you can do. You may need to

increase your dose of T4 (average dose is around 125/150mcgs daily. Unless you

have heart problems, you can try an increase yourself of 25 mcgs daily to see

if this helps.

Other things you can do is to get your GP to test to see where

your ferritin, B12, Vitamin D3, magnesium, copper and zinc lie within the

reference range. If low, you need to supplement whatever is low to bring your

levels up because otherwise, no amount of thyroid hormone replacement is going

to take away your symptoms. Check that your adrenals are functioning well (you

can do the 24 hour salivary adrenal profile through Genova Diagnostics www.gdx.uk.net

) and check that you do not suffer with systemic candidiasis. Your

endocrinologist will know nothing, or little about these so you will be wasting

your time going back in November to this particular guy. Many with CFS, ME and

FM do well with the addition of 3 with their T4, or by taking T3 alone. You

have to ask yourself whether you are brave enough to look after yourself and

get yourself well, because there are ten

s of thousands out there in the UK alone who will never regain

their normal health within the NHS. The BTA has a stranglehold over all endocrine

specialists, and they have to do what they are told, otherwise, they risk being

arraigned before those GMC.

Read everything in our files and web site. Read Dr Peatfield's

book 'Your Thyroid and How to Keep it Healthy'. Read Janie Bowthorp's Book

" Stop the Thyroid Madness " and learn the terrible truth that is

behind the diagnosis and treatment of hypothyroidism.

Luv - Sheila

Hi

it isnt going to be raised because the endo says its fine and he is happy with

it where it is. (its within the range), when I asked about symptoms he put them

down to my other conditions, mainly the M.E. Dont see him again till November

now.

Carole

June 28, 2009

Hi Carole, silly man! going by the 'anywhere in range is fine' is not the way to get well! Next time make a fuss! > Subject: Re: blood test results> > Hi > > it isnt going to be raised because the endo says its fine and he is happy with it where it is. (its within the range), when I asked about symptoms he put them down to my other conditions, mainly the M.E. Dont see him again till November now.> > Carole> > <jennystenning@...> wrote:> >> > Hi Carole,> > When is that tiny dose of T4 going to be increased- TSH too> > high and FT4 too low!> > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------> > TPA is not medically qualified. Consult with a qualified medical practitioner before changing medication.> >

October 3, 2009

You could change your GP but you might get one who believes the

same as doctors are not taught how to properly diagnose hypothyroidism when

they went through medical school. She should, by rights, pass you on for a

second opinion, but they don't bother.

The one thing you could try is to write her a letter, listing

all of your symptoms and signs (check these against those in our web site www.tpa-uk.,org.uk under 'Hypothyroidism').

List your basal temperature for 4 or 5 days BEFORE

you get out of bed in a morning. Normal temperature is 98.6, but if yours is 97.8

(or it could be very much less) this is an indication your metabolism is

running too slow and this is likely to be because you are hypothyroid. List any

members of your family who have a thyroid or autoimmune disease. List all the

blood tests you need. These are a FULL thyroid function test which includes

TSH, Free T4, Free T3 and a test to see whether you have antibodies to your

thyroid. Ask also for the following blood tests, and let her know that you need

these because you know that should any of them be low in the reference range,

your thyroid hormone will not be getting properly absorbed into the cells.

Ferritin (stored iron), vitamin B12, vitamin D3, magnesium, copper, zinc and

folate. Ask for all the results of these tests together with the reference

range for each of them. You could enclose a stamped addressed envelope for

these to be sent to you. Ask for a referral for a second opinion to a thyroid

specialist of your choice (I will send you a list of some good doctors

privately and hope there is one fairly close to where you live). Last, ask for

your letter of request to be placed into your medical notes. Doctors usually

take more notice when requests are in writing, particularly if they are to

remain in your medical notes. Send a copy of this request to the Head of Practice.

Your cortisol test done at the hospital still needs to show the

reference range for us to be able to comment. However, the NHS ONLY test to see

whether you are suffering from 's disease (little or no cortisol) or

Cushing's Syndrome (too much cortisol) and they do not look for adrenal

insufficiency. If you think this might be a problem, you will have to get the

24 hour salivary adrenal profile, which checks your cortisol and DHEA levels at

four specific times during the day. You can get this tested through Genova

Diagnostics www.gdx.uk.net .

Good luck.

Luv - Sheila

My TSH was 3.50 earlier in the year, I tried to persuade my GP to give me a

trial of thyroxine as I was feeling so ill but she wouldn't agree. She retested

the TSH and it is now 2.30 mu/L so it has just improved by itself - how is this

possible?

Also my free T4 is now 13.90pmol/L

My GP says all this is normal but i'm looking for something to explain my

underactive symptoms?

My Cortisol result is 327nmol/L at 9am in the morning.

Any ideas would be much appreciated as the GP isn't willing to do anything

further

No virus

found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.14.2/2408 - Release Date: 10/02/09

18:24:00

October 6, 2009

THank for the info Sheila, please send the list of thyroid specialists to see if

there is one in my area.

You also mentioned feritin and B12 results, my GP did do these tests recently

and the results are

B12 444ng/L

magnesium 0.97mmol/L

Serum Ferritin 43g/L ( I am taking Iron supplements)

GP did say that these tests are within normal range, but I suspect from looking

at reference ranges that I could do with a top up

Esther

>

> Hello

>

> My TSH was 3.50 earlier in the year, I tried to persuade my GP to give me a

trial of thyroxine as I was feeling so ill but she wouldn't agree. She retested

the TSH and it is now 2.30 mu/L so it has just improved by itself - how is this

possible?

>

> Also my free T4 is now 13.90pmol/L

>

> My GP says all this is normal but i'm looking for something to explain my

underactive symptoms?

>

> My Cortisol result is 327nmol/L at 9am in the morning.

>

> Any ideas would be much appreciated as the GP isn't willing to do anything

further

>

October 28, 2009

You should not take Test C and Nolvadex at the same time it's one or the other.

I do about 200 mgs a week but I do them this way. I do a 80mg. shot every 3

days and I use HCG the 2 days each in between this keeps me leveled and holds

down my Estradiol levels. I have a lump on the side of my chest just off my

nipple to the outside Dr. said it's nothing they checked it but when Estadiol

levels to up this lump gets bigger.

Here is a link that shows how Nolvadex works it makes your brain send more LH

and FSH to your testis to make more T being on Test C this shuts this message of

LH and FSH down. So your doing one thing that shuts down LH and FSH and adding

Nolvadex that does the opposite. It's like trying to tear down a wall and hold

it up at the same time.

http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_article/sex_news_sports_funny_grok/eman_vs_tm\

an%3bjsessionid=46321349533F108D51363B394185CD95.hydra

==========================================================================

Tamoxifen (Nolvadex)

Tamoxifen is also an anti-estrogen. It started out as a means of treatment for

breast cancer. Tamoxifen works in a similar fashion to that of clomiphene in

that it binds competitively to estrogen receptors throughout the body. It

especially binds well to the alpha receptor that can promote breast tissue

growth. It, like clomiphene, can increase LH and Testosterone, but not to the

same extent.

One could guess that by using a higher amount of tamoxifen, you could achieve

the same LH boosting effects as those seen with clomiphene. However, in one

study, no difference was found in terms of LH and Testosterone levels when men

were given either 5 or 10 mg daily or 20 mg daily (4). If, however, these levels

were increased even higher to 40 to 80 mg, the results may have been different.

For now though, Iâ€™d say clomiphene is the better of the two in terms of

elevating LH and Testosterone.

What else is good about tamoxifen? Itâ€™s been shown to be beneficial to blood

profiles by lowering LDL (5). It also has antioxidant properties as well as

anti-yeast/viral effects. Last but not least, itâ€™s been shown to be very

effective at treating gynecomastia. With dosages of 40 mg per day it was shown

to be effective in 80% of men with gyno. A dosage of 10 to 20 mg was also shown

to be effective. (6,7) Personally, Iâ€™d use 20 to 40 mg per day if I wanted to

prevent gyno. For an elevation in LH, however, Iâ€™d use around 80 to 100 mg per

day. The half life of tamoxifen is five to seven days.

The cost for Nolvadex is around $1.80 per tablet while the generic brand is

about twenty cents cheaper.

==========================================================================

And Nolvadex works just about the same as Clomid.

Clomiphene (Clomid, Serophene, Omifin)

Clomiphene was originally developed to help treat female infertility caused by

ovulatory dysfunction. It works in women by binding competitively to estrogen

receptors on the hypothalamus and pituitary. This causes an increased secretion

of leutinizing hormone-releasing hormone as well as follicle-stimulating

hormone-releasing hormone which in turn causes a release of LH and FSH. Did you

follow that? These two hormones play key roles in the process of ovulation and

maturation of the ovarian follicle, which is necessary to make a baby.

So, what the hell does this have to do with a bodybuilder? Iâ€™m sure most of

you are already familiar with what Iâ€™m about to tell you. That is, clomiphene,

which increases LH and FSH in women, can do the same in men. As we all know, LH

is responsible for endogenous Testosterone production in men. This is a great

thing for guys whoâ€™ve just come off a cycle which has shut down or limited the

production of their endogenous T.

So, what else is great about this stuff? Well, you should also notice that while

it binds to estrogen receptors on the hypothalamus and pituitary, it does the

same with breast tissue. When it does, this prevents endogenous estrogen from

binding to the alpha receptor sites. The alpha receptors are those found with

breast tissue.

What else? Well, it can improve blood lipid profiles to some extent. This is

thought to be an inherent property of all anti-estrogens. Itâ€™s thought to

occur because of clomipheneâ€™s estrogen-like influence on the cardiovascular

system, lowering low density lipoproteins in the plasma (1).

Oh, and one more thing. Yes, clomiphene has been shown to increase LH and

Testosterone, both total and free in normal and oligospermic men (dudes with low

sperm count). But what about in men that have exercise-induced hypogonadism? The

answer is that clomiphene can help them as well.

In one study, a 29-year-old male runner had reached a state of hypogonadism from

overtraining, something thatâ€™s also commonly seen amongst bodybuilders. He

received 50 mg of clomiphene daily for five weeks and afterward, reached normal

levels of LH, FSH, and Testosterone, both free and total. After four months of

treatment, improvements were seen in muscle strength, daily morning erections,

sense of well being, and energy (2).

I think it can be concluded that clomiphene is very effective at increasing LH

and Testosterone levels. Itâ€™s good at preventing gynecomastia and can also

improve blood lipid profiles.

So what dosages should be used? For the LH/Testosterone boosting effect, a

dosage of 50 to100 mg per day. When using it as an anti-estrogen, you should

employ larger dosages. Depending on what steroid youâ€™re using and how much,

you should use 50 to 300 mg per day during the cycle. Itâ€™s been shown that

clomiphene is more effective for preventing and treating gynecomastia when

higher dosages are used (3).

If youâ€™re getting it the legit way, through your doctor, the price for the

brand name Clomid is around nine to ten bucks per tab. The generic version is

around four dollars per tab. Of course, a little bird told me that the street

price is much lower and that many of the same, uh, business men, who sell

steroids will sell clomiphene for around fifty cents to a dollar per tab.

==========================================================================

Try doing you shots 80 mgs every 3 days using a small 27g 1ml x 1/2 " lg. needle.

To get the oil out of the vial pull the plunger all the way down and hold it

until you get your dose it will take a min. or two.

Try to get on some Arimidex to get your Estradiol levels down if you can't get

it try DIM.

http://www.dimfaq.com/index.htm

http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-Pure-Rip-with-DIM-60-Tablets/12814?at=0

Some of the guys get Arimidex from these sites it is liquid form.

http://www.ag-guys.com/store/product.php?productid=16135 & cat=248

http://www.researchstop.com/dexsolut.html

They use a needle to get there dose 1ml = 1mg you need to start with .5mls or

..5cc every other day to get your estradiol levels down. Here is a cut and paste

of what I tell men so they don't go to lowl.

=========================================================================

What I found is if you go to low taking arimidex, it's the length of time your

to low, if your too low say for 8 weeks it can take your body a longer time to

make more Estradiol. Bottom line is to know how not to go to low. Keep a log on

your dose and how you feel men going to low can't get it up taking Viagra. I

went to low when I first tried Arimidex and did not know about going to low or

how one feels to low, so I was low a good 8 weeks. I did not know I was low

until my next labs.

The best gage I have found to control your Estradiol levels is to gage your

night time and morning wood. At good levels or what I call the sweet spot you

get your night time and morning wood back so strong it will wake you up and you

can hang a coat on it.

Most men do good taking .25 mgs or 1/4 of a 1mg. pill, I use a pill cutter to

cut the small pill in half then I stand it on the cut end and use a single edge

razor to cut this in half. A good way to take arimidex is by how high your

levels are. I tested over 90 pg/ml so we tried doing .5 mgs every other day

after 8 weeks my next set of labs showed it did not move below 90, test said

>90. So we did .5 mgs. every day in about 2 weeks I got some strong night time

and morning wood back after not having them for many yrs.

I kept doing this dose and in 8 weeks my next set of labs said <20 back in the

day labs were like this they did not have to good labs we have today they could

not read lower the 20. My Dr. told me this looks to low to stop taking the

Arimidex. The one thing I noticed was my wood stopped and stopping the Arimidex

my wood came back in about 7 weeks my next test at 8 weeks was 24 pg/ml. So we

went back on the Arimidex but the Dr. told me to take .5 mgs every 3 days I was

on this dose not a week and lost wood. This is when I figured out going to low

you lose wood. And the longer your too low the longer it takes to get levels

back up.

I stopped the arimidex right away and got my wood back in 4 days. I then after

playing with the dose for a time found the best dose is .25mgs every 2 to 3

days.

So lets say your labs are less the 50 pg/ml if your take .5 mgs you can go down

so dam fast your miss the sweet spot of your wood and go to low. It's best with

lower levels 50 and under to do less Arimidex .25mgs every 2 days if later your

lose wood when it comes back go to every 3 days.

I have found estradiol is the hardest hormone to control, it goes up or down

from month to month some times I need .25mgs every 2 days other times I need

..25mgs everyday most of the time I do well on every 3 days.

So between wood and labs I do great and so do most of the men I have told this

to. I keep a log on how much I am taking and how I feel. Doing this and reading

back in my log I was able to tell when I was going to high or to low my Dr. lets

me dose my arimidex by how I feel.

Over the yrs. I have posted this story until I am blue in the face.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: heyfritzy <haverhillguy@...>

> Subject: Blood Test Results

>

> Date: Wednesday, October 28, 2009, 12:28 PM

> I am a 34 year old male and I have

> been on 200mg/week (single injection) of Testosterone

> Cypionate.

>

> About a week ago I noticed a small sensitive lump under my

> right nipple.Â I googled a bit and am 99.9% positive

> it's the start of some gyno.

>

> I was never prescribed and anti estrogens or aromatase

> inhibitors etc.Â While I am from the US and was living

> there when diagnosed with low T, I am now living in Central

> America - so there is not standardized medical treatment and

> I have yet to find a hormone specialist.Â I quickly

> went to the pharmacy and purchased Nolvadex (god love the

> fact that everything down here is over the counter) which I

> have been taking 2x a day in order to fight the gyno.Â

> My Blood tests show a estrodiol level of 2x that of a normal

> man my age (and when I say 2x I am referring to the fact

> that I am double the highest end of the normal range).Â

> It is also odd that at 200mg/week of test cyp I was usually

> over 1000 ng/ml on my test results - but am now down under

> 700.

>

> If people who are taking testosterone cypionate long term

> could please comment and let me know what you all are taking

> for estrodiol management I would be very interested in

> hearing about it.

>

> Is it possible that my receptors are not responding as well

> to the testosterone supplementation due to the use over the

> last 2 years downgrading the receptors?

>

> Here are my lab results for your edification.

>

> T3: 1.13 ng/mlÂ Â Â (Range 0.6-2.1)

> T4: 4.88 ug/dlÂ Â Â (Range 5.0-13.0)

> TSH: 2.24 mUI/LÂ (Range 0.3-6.2)

>

> Estrodiol: 78.2 pg/mlÂ Â Â (Range 10-40)

>

> Testosterone Total: 698.76 ng/mlÂ Â Â (Range

> 245-1836 for men 20-49yrs)

> Testosterone Free: 14.0 pg/mlÂ Â (Range 8.80-27

> pg/ml for men 20-39yrs)

>

> Thank you

>

> ------------------------------------

>

October 28, 2009

When was the blood drawn in relationship to testosteorne?

If it was drawn on the 7 th day then you are probably peaking about 1800 so you

are going through a hormonal rollercoaster. So I would suggest lower

testosteorne by about 30% so you be testing about 400 at the trough.

Estrodial is unexceptable and needs to be properly addressed with adex and

manipulation of proper testesterone.

I may question quality of your testosteone. Where did you get it?

You also may be a fast metabolizer and needs multiple shots during the week.

Nolvodex is not the best choice to lower e2.

>

> I am a 34 year old male and I have been on 200mg/week (single injection) of

Testosterone Cypionate.

>

> About a week ago I noticed a small sensitive lump under my right nipple. I

googled a bit and am 99.9% positive it's the start of some gyno.

>

> I was never prescribed and anti estrogens or aromatase inhibitors etc. While

I am from the US and was living there when diagnosed with low T, I am now living

in Central America - so there is not standardized medical treatment and I have

yet to find a hormone specialist. I quickly went to the pharmacy and purchased

Nolvadex (god love the fact that everything down here is over the counter) which

I have been taking 2x a day in order to fight the gyno. My Blood tests show a

estrodiol level of 2x that of a normal man my age (and when I say 2x I am

referring to the fact that I am double the highest end of the normal range). It

is also odd that at 200mg/week of test cyp I was usually over 1000 ng/ml on my

test results - but am now down under 700.

>

> If people who are taking testosterone cypionate long term could please comment

and let me know what you all are taking for estrodiol management I would be very

interested in hearing about it.

>

> Is it possible that my receptors are not responding as well to the

testosterone supplementation due to the use over the last 2 years downgrading

the receptors?

>

> Here are my lab results for your edification.

>

> T3: 1.13 ng/ml (Range 0.6-2.1)

> T4: 4.88 ug/dl (Range 5.0-13.0)

> TSH: 2.24 mUI/L (Range 0.3-6.2)

>

> Estrodiol: 78.2 pg/ml (Range 10-40)

>

> Testosterone Total: 698.76 ng/ml (Range 245-1836 for men 20-49yrs)

> Testosterone Free: 14.0 pg/ml (Range 8.80-27 pg/ml for men 20-39yrs)

>

> Thank you

>

October 28, 2009

Yes this was about 7 days after my prior shot.

I agree my estrodiol is through the roof and it worries me - especially with the

gyno issue which I never have had before.

Can you please let me know how/what adex is (do you mean arimidex? If so that

is what I tried to get here but they have to order it from the mainland - so I

am actually waiting for that) and what sort of dosage I should be taking and do

I need to ramp up etc?

I am not concerned about the quality of the testosterone. I have been using a

brand name from the states dispensed from a US pharmacy. I purposly decided

not to get testosteroe locally out of concern for quality/etc... so spent a

fortune buying it in the states. I also had my wife bring it here in her carry

on so there were no heat/cold issues along the way from states to here.

The odd thing about this all is I have been at the same dose for a very long

time - a couple years at least - so not sure why my estrogen has suddenly spiked

and the gyno started.

I selected the nolvadex based on what was available locally and immediately (I'm

on an island off the coast of Honduras) and because my research showed it was

effective at recepter competition in the breasts.

> >

> > I am a 34 year old male and I have been on 200mg/week (single injection) of

Testosterone Cypionate.

> >

> > About a week ago I noticed a small sensitive lump under my right nipple. I

googled a bit and am 99.9% positive it's the start of some gyno.

> >

> > I was never prescribed and anti estrogens or aromatase inhibitors etc.

While I am from the US and was living there when diagnosed with low T, I am now

living in Central America - so there is not standardized medical treatment and I

have yet to find a hormone specialist. I quickly went to the pharmacy and

purchased Nolvadex (god love the fact that everything down here is over the

counter) which I have been taking 2x a day in order to fight the gyno. My Blood

tests show a estrodiol level of 2x that of a normal man my age (and when I say

2x I am referring to the fact that I am double the highest end of the normal

range). It is also odd that at 200mg/week of test cyp I was usually over 1000

ng/ml on my test results - but am now down under 700.

> >

> > If people who are taking testosterone cypionate long term could please

comment and let me know what you all are taking for estrodiol management I would

be very interested in hearing about it.

> >

> > Is it possible that my receptors are not responding as well to the

testosterone supplementation due to the use over the last 2 years downgrading

the receptors?

> >

> > Here are my lab results for your edification.

> >

> > T3: 1.13 ng/ml (Range 0.6-2.1)

> > T4: 4.88 ug/dl (Range 5.0-13.0)

> > TSH: 2.24 mUI/L (Range 0.3-6.2)

> >

> > Estrodiol: 78.2 pg/ml (Range 10-40)

> >

> > Testosterone Total: 698.76 ng/ml (Range 245-1836 for men 20-49yrs)

> > Testosterone Free: 14.0 pg/ml (Range 8.80-27 pg/ml for men 20-39yrs)

> >

> > Thank you

> >

>

October 28, 2009

Philip -

This reply/post you sent is actually bad information and misinformation to

anyone reading these posts looking for information on combating gyno. In fact it

was a doctor's recommendation to follow this course of treatment in absence of

being able to source other pharmaceuticals.

Nolvadex is often and commonly used to combat gyno as it competes for receptor

sites in the breast area. It in fact is used in breast cancer/breast tumour

patients to specifically target breast tissue growth. Gyno is a benign tumour -

so the treatment is in fact well suited, however there are now some more

effective treatments.

>

> > From: heyfritzy <haverhillguy@...>

> > Subject: Blood Test Results

> >

> > Date: Wednesday, October 28, 2009, 12:28 PM

> > I am a 34 year old male and I have

> > been on 200mg/week (single injection) of Testosterone

> > Cypionate.

> >

> > About a week ago I noticed a small sensitive lump under my

> > right nipple.Â I googled a bit and am 99.9% positive

> > it's the start of some gyno.

> >

> > I was never prescribed and anti estrogens or aromatase

> > inhibitors etc.Â While I am from the US and was living

> > there when diagnosed with low T, I am now living in Central

> > America - so there is not standardized medical treatment and

> > I have yet to find a hormone specialist.Â I quickly

> > went to the pharmacy and purchased Nolvadex (god love the

> > fact that everything down here is over the counter) which I

> > have been taking 2x a day in order to fight the gyno.Â

> > My Blood tests show a estrodiol level of 2x that of a normal

> > man my age (and when I say 2x I am referring to the fact

> > that I am double the highest end of the normal range).Â

> > It is also odd that at 200mg/week of test cyp I was usually

> > over 1000 ng/ml on my test results - but am now down under

> > 700.

> >

> > If people who are taking testosterone cypionate long term

> > could please comment and let me know what you all are taking

> > for estrodiol management I would be very interested in

> > hearing about it.

> >

> > Is it possible that my receptors are not responding as well

> > to the testosterone supplementation due to the use over the

> > last 2 years downgrading the receptors?

> >

> > Here are my lab results for your edification.

> >

> > T3: 1.13 ng/mlÂ Â Â (Range 0.6-2.1)

> > T4: 4.88 ug/dlÂ Â Â (Range 5.0-13.0)

> > TSH: 2.24 mUI/LÂ (Range 0.3-6.2)

> >

> > Estrodiol: 78.2 pg/mlÂ Â Â (Range 10-40)

> >

> > Testosterone Total: 698.76 ng/mlÂ Â Â (Range

> > 245-1836 for men 20-49yrs)

> > Testosterone Free: 14.0 pg/mlÂ Â (Range 8.80-27

> > pg/ml for men 20-39yrs)

> >

> > Thank you

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

October 29, 2009

Fritzy,

Â

Â Why are you challenging a living eye witness and practitioner.Â Â If it is

working for him YOUR perspective is errant because it is working for him.Â Â Â

You may not like that it works for him.Â But it works.Â

Â

Things often or commonly used are not absolute statements.Â Nevertheless if it

works for 1 in 1 million.Â And I am that 1 you shouldn't suggest I be a liar.

Â

Those who post here are pretty good about bringing experience with opinion.Â Â

You'll have to do better than this to rebuke our Moderator.

Â

**To the others in the group.Â Forgive me but Phil is more of the Dad who spoke

truth not good intentions.Â And I take it personally should anyone attack his

character on the issues of this support group.

Â

From: heyfritzy <haverhillguy@...>

Subject: Re: Blood Test Results

Date: Thursday, October 29, 2009, 1:12 AM

Â

Philip -

This reply/post you sent is actually bad information and misinformation to

anyone reading these posts looking for information on combating gyno. In fact it

was a doctor's recommendation to follow this course of treatment in absence of

being able to source other pharmaceuticals.

Nolvadex is often and commonly used to combat gyno as it competes for receptor

sites in the breast area. It in fact is used in breast cancer/breast tumour

patients to specifically target breast tissue growth. Gyno is a benign tumour -

so the treatment is in fact well suited, however there are now some more

effective treatments.

>

> > From: heyfritzy <haverhillguy@ ...>

> > Subject: Blood Test Results

> >

> > Date: Wednesday, October 28, 2009, 12:28 PM

> > I am a 34 year old male and I have

> > been on 200mg/week (single injection) of Testosterone

> > Cypionate.

> >

> > About a week ago I noticed a small sensitive lump under my

> > right nipple.Ã‚Â I googled a bit and am 99.9% positive

> > it's the start of some gyno.

> >

> > I was never prescribed and anti estrogens or aromatase

> > inhibitors etc.Ã‚Â While I am from the US and was living

> > there when diagnosed with low T, I am now living in Central

> > America - so there is not standardized medical treatment and

> > I have yet to find a hormone specialist.Ã‚Â I quickly

> > went to the pharmacy and purchased Nolvadex (god love the

> > fact that everything down here is over the counter) which I

> > have been taking 2x a day in order to fight the gyno.Ã‚Â

> > My Blood tests show a estrodiol level of 2x that of a normal

> > man my age (and when I say 2x I am referring to the fact

> > that I am double the highest end of the normal range).Ã‚Â

> > It is also odd that at 200mg/week of test cyp I was usually

> > over 1000 ng/ml on my test results - but am now down under

> > 700.

> >

> > If people who are taking testosterone cypionate long term

> > could please comment and let me know what you all are taking

> > for estrodiol management I would be very interested in

> > hearing about it.

> >

> > Is it possible that my receptors are not responding as well

> > to the testosterone supplementation due to the use over the

> > last 2 years downgrading the receptors?

> >

> > Here are my lab results for your edification.

> >

> > T3: 1.13 ng/mlÃ‚Â Ã‚Â Ã‚Â (Range 0.6-2.1)

> > T4: 4.88 ug/dlÃ‚Â Ã‚Â Ã‚Â (Range 5.0-13.0)

> > TSH: 2.24 mUI/LÃ‚Â (Range 0.3-6.2)

> >

> > Estrodiol: 78.2 pg/mlÃ‚Â Ã‚Â Ã‚Â (Range 10-40)

> >

> > Testosterone Total: 698.76 ng/mlÃ‚Â Ã‚Â Ã‚Â (Range

> > 245-1836 for men 20-49yrs)

> > Testosterone Free: 14.0 pg/mlÃ‚Â Ã‚Â (Range 8.80-27

> > pg/ml for men 20-39yrs)

> >

> > Thank you

> >

> > ------------ --------- --------- ------

> >

October 29, 2009

I think you missed what I was trying to say you can't take Testosterone shots

and do Nolvadex at the same time. You what to use it stop the T shots. One

fights the other and as for a Dr. telling you some thing fine I have lost count

as to some of the bull I have heard from Dr.'s you can't believe them if a Dr.

told you to do both Nolvadex and Testosterone shots at the same time he dose not

know what he is taking about. And the link is dam good tells you how it works

and what it does. Each time you do a Testosterone shot it shuts down your LH

and FSH levels and they don't come back up when your stop TRT. Nolvadex makes

your brain send LH and FSH so why would a Dr. have to do something that stops LH

and FSH and take something to make it. Your body will be in such a stress try

to figure out what is going on. If your on TRT and have gyno or high levels of

Estradiol and in time this can happen on TRT you need to take Arimidex to keep

this in check.

Men doing Anabolic Steroids and coming off them use Nolvadex to get there body

to make testosterone again. They don't take the steroids and Nolvadex at the

same time.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: heyfritzy <haverhillguy@...>

> Subject: Re: Blood Test Results

>

> Date: Wednesday, October 28, 2009, 9:12 PM

> Philip -

>

> This reply/post you sent is actually bad information and

> misinformation to anyone reading these posts looking for

> information on combating gyno. In fact it was a doctor's

> recommendation to follow this course of treatment in absence

> of being able to source other pharmaceuticals.

>

> Nolvadex is often and commonly used to combat gyno as it

> competes for receptor sites in the breast area.Â It in

> fact is used in breast cancer/breast tumour patients to

> specifically target breast tissue growth.Â Gyno is a

> benign tumour - so the treatment is in fact well suited,

> however there are now some more effective treatments.

>

> >

> > > From: heyfritzy <haverhillguy@...>

> > > Subject: Blood Test Results

> > >

> > > Date: Wednesday, October 28, 2009, 12:28 PM

> > > I am a 34 year old male and I have

> > > been on 200mg/week (single injection) of

> Testosterone

> > > Cypionate.

> > >

> > > About a week ago I noticed a small sensitive lump

> under my

> > > right nipple.Ã‚Â I googled a bit and am 99.9%

> positive

> > > it's the start of some gyno.

> > >

> > > I was never prescribed and anti estrogens or

> aromatase

> > > inhibitors etc.Ã‚Â While I am from the US and

> was living

> > > there when diagnosed with low T, I am now living

> in Central

> > > America - so there is not standardized medical

> treatment and

> > > I have yet to find a hormone specialist.Ã‚Â I

> quickly

> > > went to the pharmacy and purchased Nolvadex (god

> love the

> > > fact that everything down here is over the

> counter) which I

> > > have been taking 2x a day in order to fight the

> gyno.Ã‚Â

> > > My Blood tests show a estrodiol level of 2x that

> of a normal

> > > man my age (and when I say 2x I am referring to

> the fact

> > > that I am double the highest end of the normal

> range).Ã‚Â

> > > It is also odd that at 200mg/week of test cyp I

> was usually

> > > over 1000 ng/ml on my test results - but am now

> down under

> > > 700.

> > >

> > > If people who are taking testosterone cypionate

> long term

> > > could please comment and let me know what you all

> are taking

> > > for estrodiol management I would be very

> interested in

> > > hearing about it.

> > >

> > > Is it possible that my receptors are not

> responding as well

> > > to the testosterone supplementation due to the

> use over the

> > > last 2 years downgrading the receptors?

> > >

> > > Here are my lab results for your edification.

> > >

> > > T3: 1.13 ng/mlÃ‚Â Ã‚Â Ã‚Â (Range 0.6-2.1)

> > > T4: 4.88 ug/dlÃ‚Â Ã‚Â Ã‚Â (Range 5.0-13.0)

> > > TSH: 2.24 mUI/LÃ‚Â (Range 0.3-6.2)

> > >

> > > Estrodiol: 78.2 pg/mlÃ‚Â Ã‚Â Ã‚Â (Range 10-40)

> > >

> > > Testosterone Total: 698.76

> ng/mlÃ‚Â Ã‚Â Ã‚Â (Range

> > > 245-1836 for men 20-49yrs)

> > > Testosterone Free: 14.0 pg/mlÃ‚Â Ã‚Â (Range

> 8.80-27

> > > pg/ml for men 20-39yrs)

> > >

> > > Thank you

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

October 29, 2009

Phil -

Thanks for the clarification. Now I'm just confused. I have a Doctor in the

states telling me I should be on Nolvadex while continuing my Testosterone

therapy, I even consulted with a well known bodybuilder that I happen to be

friends with and he said Nolvadex is commonly used to combat gyno during

administration of steroids. I did further research on the internet for days and

found many resources which also suggested the use of Nolvadex during steroid

administration for combatting gyno if it should appear.

However I do agree with what you are saying in terms of it sending the opposite

messages in the body...

Arggg... just when I thought my hormones were finally right they go amuck. I

do agree 100% with the need to take arimidex and my other research shows this to

be true as well. So glad I have SOME information that seems to be universal

across the board.

Can anyone in the group share their arimidex use in terms of dose and the level

of estrodiol reduction.

Thank you!

> > >

> > > > From: heyfritzy <haverhillguy@>

> > > > Subject: Blood Test Results

> > > >

> > > > Date: Wednesday, October 28, 2009, 12:28 PM

> > > > I am a 34 year old male and I have

> > > > been on 200mg/week (single injection) of

> > Testosterone

> > > > Cypionate.

> > > >

> > > > About a week ago I noticed a small sensitive lump

> > under my

> > > > right nipple.Ã‚Â I googled a bit and am 99.9%

> > positive

> > > > it's the start of some gyno.

> > > >

> > > > I was never prescribed and anti estrogens or

> > aromatase

> > > > inhibitors etc.Ã‚Â While I am from the US and

> > was living

> > > > there when diagnosed with low T, I am now living

> > in Central

> > > > America - so there is not standardized medical

> > treatment and

> > > > I have yet to find a hormone specialist.Ã‚Â I

> > quickly

> > > > went to the pharmacy and purchased Nolvadex (god

> > love the

> > > > fact that everything down here is over the

> > counter) which I

> > > > have been taking 2x a day in order to fight the

> > gyno.Ã‚Â

> > > > My Blood tests show a estrodiol level of 2x that

> > of a normal

> > > > man my age (and when I say 2x I am referring to

> > the fact

> > > > that I am double the highest end of the normal

> > range).Ã‚Â

> > > > It is also odd that at 200mg/week of test cyp I

> > was usually

> > > > over 1000 ng/ml on my test results - but am now

> > down under

> > > > 700.

> > > >

> > > > If people who are taking testosterone cypionate

> > long term

> > > > could please comment and let me know what you all

> > are taking

> > > > for estrodiol management I would be very

> > interested in

> > > > hearing about it.

> > > >

> > > > Is it possible that my receptors are not

> > responding as well

> > > > to the testosterone supplementation due to the

> > use over the

> > > > last 2 years downgrading the receptors?

> > > >

> > > > Here are my lab results for your edification.

> > > >

> > > > T3: 1.13 ng/mlÃ‚Â Ã‚Â Ã‚Â (Range 0.6-2.1)

> > > > T4: 4.88 ug/dlÃ‚Â Ã‚Â Ã‚Â (Range 5.0-13.0)

> > > > TSH: 2.24 mUI/LÃ‚Â (Range 0.3-6.2)

> > > >

> > > > Estrodiol: 78.2 pg/mlÃ‚Â Ã‚Â Ã‚Â (Range 10-40)

> > > >

> > > > Testosterone Total: 698.76

> > ng/mlÃ‚Â Ã‚Â Ã‚Â (Range

> > > > 245-1836 for men 20-49yrs)

> > > > Testosterone Free: 14.0 pg/mlÃ‚Â Ã‚Â (Range

> > 8.80-27

> > > > pg/ml for men 20-39yrs)

> > > >

> > > > Thank you

> > > >

> > > > ------------------------------------

> > > >

October 29, 2009

Hi et al.

Let me state that I have been reading this group off and on for a while now and

admittedly don't know all of the players and the level of their direct or

indirect experience with TRT/HRT/hypogonadism...

I simply stated what I did as the information I was receiving here was was in

stark contrast to what I was told by my health care PROFESSIONAL. My Doctor has

been very very good and thorough with all my testing in the past, has gone out

of her way to describe the medications I am taking and course of action... so

you can imagine that I was rather shocked to see someone telling me to not

follow my doctor's instructions. I could only assume the information to not

take Nolvadex with Testosterone was bad or was misinformed advice.

Since my original post I have been googling day and night to understand more

about gyno and the drugs that can be used to combat it. What I am finding is

that there is no finite methodology or medication. In fact there is no specific

drug on the market to treat the issue. Instead all affected persons seem to be

relying upon medications designed to treat female breast cancer patients. And

while it appears from this groups postings that Nolvadex sends opposing signals

to the body than the testosterone, it remains that a large male population has

been historically taking nolvadex as a means of gyno management/treatment during

a course of testosterone or other steroids administration. That said there

doesn't appear to be any short-term or long-term scientific/medical studies on

men on TRT that develop gyno and the non-surgical treatment of such - simply

user experience (mainly in the bodybuilding world). I now know I need to take

some form of estrodiol management (and likely should have been on something all

along) and plan to get my estrogen in check as soon as I can get some good

information on the appropriate med(s) and dosage(s). From my readings and the

posting on this group it sounds like Arimidex is the appropriate medication.

I am happy to have this group available and in no way meant to upset anyone. We

are all in this together and the support and interaction is VERY healthy

mentally and socially.

Thanks everyone.

> >

> > > From: heyfritzy <haverhillguy@ ...>

> > > Subject: Blood Test Results

> > >

> > > Date: Wednesday, October 28, 2009, 12:28 PM

> > > I am a 34 year old male and I have

> > > been on 200mg/week (single injection) of Testosterone

> > > Cypionate.

> > >

> > > About a week ago I noticed a small sensitive lump under my

> > > right nipple.Ã‚Â I googled a bit and am 99.9% positive

> > > it's the start of some gyno.

> > >

> > > I was never prescribed and anti estrogens or aromatase

> > > inhibitors etc.Ã‚Â While I am from the US and was living

> > > there when diagnosed with low T, I am now living in Central

> > > America - so there is not standardized medical treatment and

> > > I have yet to find a hormone specialist.Ã‚Â I quickly

> > > went to the pharmacy and purchased Nolvadex (god love the

> > > fact that everything down here is over the counter) which I

> > > have been taking 2x a day in order to fight the gyno.Ã‚Â

> > > My Blood tests show a estrodiol level of 2x that of a normal

> > > man my age (and when I say 2x I am referring to the fact

> > > that I am double the highest end of the normal range).Ã‚Â

> > > It is also odd that at 200mg/week of test cyp I was usually

> > > over 1000 ng/ml on my test results - but am now down under

> > > 700.

> > >

> > > If people who are taking testosterone cypionate long term

> > > could please comment and let me know what you all are taking

> > > for estrodiol management I would be very interested in

> > > hearing about it.

> > >

> > > Is it possible that my receptors are not responding as well

> > > to the testosterone supplementation due to the use over the

> > > last 2 years downgrading the receptors?

> > >

> > > Here are my lab results for your edification.

> > >

> > > T3: 1.13 ng/mlÃ‚Â Ã‚Â Ã‚Â (Range 0.6-2.1)

> > > T4: 4.88 ug/dlÃ‚Â Ã‚Â Ã‚Â (Range 5.0-13.0)

> > > TSH: 2.24 mUI/LÃ‚Â (Range 0.3-6.2)

> > >

> > > Estrodiol: 78.2 pg/mlÃ‚Â Ã‚Â Ã‚Â (Range 10-40)

> > >

> > > Testosterone Total: 698.76 ng/mlÃ‚Â Ã‚Â Ã‚Â (Range

> > > 245-1836 for men 20-49yrs)

> > > Testosterone Free: 14.0 pg/mlÃ‚Â Ã‚Â (Range 8.80-27

> > > pg/ml for men 20-39yrs)

> > >

> > > Thank you

> > >

> > > ------------ --------- --------- ------

> > >

October 29, 2009

Sure I can help the say I am one of the experts on this subject. First let me

say back in the day men did Nolvadex with there steroids to keep Gyno down. But

your not doing steroids like they do. Your on TRT and it's for low testosterone

even Dr. one of the best Dr.'s for low T in men says don't take both at the

same time.

Now for taking Arimidex if your levels are above 50 pg/ml or higher you start

with .5 mgs every other day it can take 4 to 6 weeks to get levels down. You

can tell when your levels are at the sweet spot because you will get back your

involuntary nocturnal erections that appear during REM (Rapid Eye Movement)

sleep. I call this wood when this happens stay on your dose but keep an eye out

for your wood to stop when this happens your going down to low. This is when

you stop taking the arimidex until your wood comes back that day go back on the

arimidex but now do less .25 mgs every other day. Still keeping an eye on your

wood you might only need this every 3 days. I use a pill cutter to cut the

small pill in half the I stand it on the cut end and use a single edge razor

blaide to cut the half in half.

Here is a cut and paste on what I tell men so they don't go to low.