Beware Quercetin

January 9, 2004

Hi all,

I don't post very often, but I read many of the posts. I came down

with SLE 1 year ago. (severely arthritic hands and toes and

Raynaud's) The rheumy put me on Plaquenil, but it didn't help. I was

overdosing on Vioxx at the time just to be able to use my hands at

all. I found out about Minocin from this group and it turned out to

be a life-saver for me. My symptoms diminished within days of taking

it and I was able to stop the Plaquenil.

One year later, I have no symptoms and have weaned myself off the

Minocin. My labs are still abnormal, but I guess those will recover

over time. I found out I was a Protein Type after reading The

Metabolic Typing Diet recommended by Dr. Mercola and switched my

diet accordingly. I have never felt better!!!! (No sugar, little

grains, lots of low glycemic veges, organic meats/fish, nuts &

seeds, probiotics, coconut oil & juicing!)

I wanted to mention that I believe that my Lupus was brought on by

taking Algonot for my Interstitial cystitis. (I have this in

remission too via hormone supplements and my dietary changes.)

Algonot has high levels of Quercetin. I came across a prostatits

group (I was researching for a friend who thought he had a prostate

problem) and noted that some of the men were getting arthritic

fingers and toes after taking Prosta-Q (another Quercetin product).

Their symptoms went away when they discontinued.

I checked my food diary and lo and behold, my arthritis started 2

days after starting the Algonot. I took it for a whole year and

never realized there could be a connection.

Anyway, it's interesting that the Minocin was so effective, despite

my feeling that my Lupus was induced by Quercetin and not by

mycoplasma. There is a lot of research that shows that Minocin and

the tetracyclines are very potent anti-inflammatory agents (more so

than steroids) as well as having anti-microbial action.

However, I don't really care how it works at this point... just that

it worked and I'm in remission and have my life back!

My rheumy is really amazed at my recovery and is now willing to try

Minocin or other tetracyclines with Lupus patients. She was using it

only for RA.

Thanks so much again for the GREAT information that this group has

to offer and also for pointing me in the right direction back to

health.

Take care,

Toby

January 9, 2004

Your intention with your quercetin warning is likely meant to be helpful,

but from my perspective, it does just the opposite. Unless you have

research, data, or studies to support this contention of yours it becomes

merely anecdotal or alarmist in nature (internet fodder), which is truly not

helpful to someone making educated decisions about what to put in their

body.

I'm forced to ask in order to clarify:

1) What else does Algonot contain, and why would you discount any

involvement from the other ingredients?

2) Has the cause(s) of lupus been defined by medical science, or has medical

science (anyone at all) ever even suspected quercetin as inducing

lupus.....prior to your " feeling " ?

3) You are able to pinpoint the onset of a disease down to a specific day?

Am I understanding this correctly?

4) How are you able to eliminate all of the variables in your life that

could have potentially contributed to onset of either the lupus of arthritis

(I'm talking controls here)?

The quercetin that I get is in the Vit C that I take. I don't recall ever

seeing any warnings regarding it in any of my research. Maybe it is bad

stuff - I don't know - be nice to see some reliable data on it before the

flag gets raised. Since it seems to lack much foundation, maybe you should

forward your warning to Mercola and he could put it on his website.

Jeff

----Original Message Follows----

From: " Toby " <paulandtoby@...>

rheumatic

Subject: rheumatic Beware Quercetin

Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 17:01:01 -0000

Hi all,

I don't post very often, but I read many of the posts. I came down

with SLE 1 year ago. (severely arthritic hands and toes and

Raynaud's) The rheumy put me on Plaquenil, but it didn't help. I was

overdosing on Vioxx at the time just to be able to use my hands at

all. I found out about Minocin from this group and it turned out to

be a life-saver for me. My symptoms diminished within days of taking

it and I was able to stop the Plaquenil.

One year later, I have no symptoms and have weaned myself off the

Minocin. My labs are still abnormal, but I guess those will recover

over time. I found out I was a Protein Type after reading The

Metabolic Typing Diet recommended by Dr. Mercola and switched my

diet accordingly. I have never felt better!!!! (No sugar, little

grains, lots of low glycemic veges, organic meats/fish, nuts &

seeds, probiotics, coconut oil & juicing!)

I wanted to mention that I believe that my Lupus was brought on by

taking Algonot for my Interstitial cystitis. (I have this in

remission too via hormone supplements and my dietary changes.)

Algonot has high levels of Quercetin. I came across a prostatits

group (I was researching for a friend who thought he had a prostate

problem) and noted that some of the men were getting arthritic

fingers and toes after taking Prosta-Q (another Quercetin product).

Their symptoms went away when they discontinued.

I checked my food diary and lo and behold, my arthritis started 2

days after starting the Algonot. I took it for a whole year and

never realized there could be a connection.

Anyway, it's interesting that the Minocin was so effective, despite

my feeling that my Lupus was induced by Quercetin and not by

mycoplasma. There is a lot of research that shows that Minocin and

the tetracyclines are very potent anti-inflammatory agents (more so

than steroids) as well as having anti-microbial action.

However, I don't really care how it works at this point... just that

it worked and I'm in remission and have my life back!

My rheumy is really amazed at my recovery and is now willing to try

Minocin or other tetracyclines with Lupus patients. She was using it

only for RA.

Thanks so much again for the GREAT information that this group has

to offer and also for pointing me in the right direction back to

health.

Take care,

Toby

_________________________________________________________________

Enjoy a special introductory offer for dial-up Internet access — limited

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January 9, 2004

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for your reply! Apparently the reaction to Quercetin is quite

rare, but I just wanted to mention it in case anyone else was taking

a product that was high in quercetin. I don't think there are any

studies here... it was on a website with a large number of men who

were taking Prosta-Q. A very small number reported a definite

development of arthritic toes & fingers after being on quercetin.

You can find the information here:

http://www.chronicprostatitis.com/quercetin.html

You can read the accounts at the bottom, where the 'warning' is

located. The urologists are mystified by the reaction of this small

number of men, (most love the product and do well on it) but the

accounts are only anecdotal so far.

I'll answer your questions:

1. Algonot also has chondroitin & glucosamine. I've take both of

these supplements before with no side effects.

2. I'm not really sure if quercetin actually gave me lupus.

(although you can get lupus from taking certain meds.. it happened

to my father with a heart medication) However, I likely am

genetically predisposed to having rheumatic disorders (really common

in my family) and the quercetin might have given me a 'flare'.

That's why I said that I only had a 'feeling' it was the cause..

since my symptoms were identical to the men who also reacted to it.

There is really no way to 'prove' this, unless a study is done.

3. I happened to be keeping a food journal due to my IC and was

amazed to see that I started Algonot 2 days before I started getting

these sore joints. I had back surgery 5 months ago, and stopped all

my supplements for a month. (too tired to pop any pills) My joint

symptoms disappeared. One of the first supplements I took again was

the Algonot and 'boom', my symptoms reappeared a couple days later.

4. You're right that there are too many other variables out there!

Perhaps it took taking the quercetin, stress and some other unknown

event to get the ball in motion. I really wouldn't have said

anything, if there weren't other people with identical symptoms with

the same product. BUT... it is a very TINY group! :-)

So, sorry to sound alarmist! I was really upset that I couldn't take

the quercetin any longer because it was doing 'wonders' for my IC!

However, I have that fixed now too by balancing my hormones and

watching my diet.

I don't think that I'll send a warning to Mercola's site... I don't

think he would take warnings based on anecdotal evidence, but I

thought that sending a notice to this group might be helpful in case

someone else just happened to have the same reaction.

All the best,

Toby

> Your intention with your quercetin warning is likely meant to be

helpful,

> but from my perspective, it does just the opposite. Unless you

have

> research, data, or studies to support this contention of yours it

becomes

> merely anecdotal or alarmist in nature (internet fodder), which is

truly not

> helpful to someone making educated decisions about what to put in

their

> body.

>

> I'm forced to ask in order to clarify:

> 1) What else does Algonot contain, and why would you discount any

> involvement from the other ingredients?

> 2) Has the cause(s) of lupus been defined by medical science, or

has medical

> science (anyone at all) ever even suspected quercetin as inducing

> lupus.....prior to your " feeling " ?

> 3) You are able to pinpoint the onset of a disease down to a

specific day?

> Am I understanding this correctly?

> 4) How are you able to eliminate all of the variables in your life

that

> could have potentially contributed to onset of either the lupus of

arthritis

> (I'm talking controls here)?

>

> The quercetin that I get is in the Vit C that I take. I don't

recall ever

> seeing any warnings regarding it in any of my research. Maybe it

is bad

> stuff - I don't know - be nice to see some reliable data on it

before the

> flag gets raised. Since it seems to lack much foundation, maybe

you should

> forward your warning to Mercola and he could put it on his website.

> Jeff

>

> ----Original Message Follows----

> From: " Toby " <paulandtoby@h...>

> rheumatic

> Subject: rheumatic Beware Quercetin

> Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 17:01:01 -0000

>

> Hi all,

> I don't post very often, but I read many of the posts. I came down

> with SLE 1 year ago. (severely arthritic hands and toes and

> Raynaud's) The rheumy put me on Plaquenil, but it didn't help. I

was

> overdosing on Vioxx at the time just to be able to use my hands at

> all. I found out about Minocin from this group and it turned out to

> be a life-saver for me. My symptoms diminished within days of

taking

> it and I was able to stop the Plaquenil.

> One year later, I have no symptoms and have weaned myself off the

> Minocin. My labs are still abnormal, but I guess those will recover

> over time. I found out I was a Protein Type after reading The

> Metabolic Typing Diet recommended by Dr. Mercola and switched my

> diet accordingly. I have never felt better!!!! (No sugar, little

> grains, lots of low glycemic veges, organic meats/fish, nuts &

> seeds, probiotics, coconut oil & juicing!)

> I wanted to mention that I believe that my Lupus was brought on by

> taking Algonot for my Interstitial cystitis. (I have this in

> remission too via hormone supplements and my dietary changes.)

> Algonot has high levels of Quercetin. I came across a prostatits

> group (I was researching for a friend who thought he had a prostate

> problem) and noted that some of the men were getting arthritic

> fingers and toes after taking Prosta-Q (another Quercetin product).

> Their symptoms went away when they discontinued.

> I checked my food diary and lo and behold, my arthritis started 2

> days after starting the Algonot. I took it for a whole year and

> never realized there could be a connection.

> Anyway, it's interesting that the Minocin was so effective, despite

> my feeling that my Lupus was induced by Quercetin and not by

> mycoplasma. There is a lot of research that shows that Minocin and

> the tetracyclines are very potent anti-inflammatory agents (more so

> than steroids) as well as having anti-microbial action.

> However, I don't really care how it works at this point... just

that

> it worked and I'm in remission and have my life back!

> My rheumy is really amazed at my recovery and is now willing to try

> Minocin or other tetracyclines with Lupus patients. She was using

it

> only for RA.

> Thanks so much again for the GREAT information that this group has

> to offer and also for pointing me in the right direction back to

> health.

> Take care,

> Toby

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Enjoy a special introductory offer for dial-up Internet access —

limited

> time only! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup

January 9, 2004

I appreciate your response to my Q's Toby. I suppose I may have a bugaboo

about " beware of this or that " warnings, because truth be told you can find

somebody raising the flag for just about everything. The trick becomes

separating the good from the bad, and sometimes that only really comes about

through asking some fundamental questions. You may be correct in your

conclusion, who really knows, and though you gave serious thought to it, I

don't think I'd have reached a similar conclusion w/o something more

definitive - but that's me and my nature.

BTW, my closing comment was actually made w/ tongue firmly in cheek and was

intended as a friendly but somewhat insensitive jab at my favorite md, not

as a sincere suggestion.

Jeff

----Original Message Follows----

From: " Toby " <paulandtoby@...>

rheumatic

Subject: rheumatic Re: Beware Quercetin

Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 18:27:08 -0000