Silliness

[Guest guest]

> Osip weighs 117lbs, the capsules are 100mg.

> 100 divided by 117 equals roughly 0.85mcg.

>

> Voila - the science behind the optimum dose!

And if I take exactly that amount my english will become as good as

his?

Andy . . . . . . . . .

[Guest guest]

> > Osip weighs 117lbs, the capsules are 100mg.

> > 100 divided by 117 equals roughly 0.85mcg.

> >

> > Voila - the science behind the optimum dose!

>

> And if I take exactly that amount my english will become as good as

> his?

>

> Andy . . . . . . . . .

-- ... there is that risk. Your manners might also seriously

deteriorate

[Guest guest]

None of this would happen if raciscm wasn't alive and (very) well.

Many people are irrationally, astonishingly rascist. As a white

woman (unless you count a great great great or so) married to a black

man and having mostly black friends (as I find black NTs to be ten

times nicer, more real, and more tolerant than white NTs)I see an

unbelievable amount of racism that shocks me and that other whites

never see. (As an (small) example, just driving my husband's car

which 'looks' black, if you know what I mean, generates a lot of

nastiness from some other drivers who assume I'm black--mostly white

men in pickup trucks, though rascism can be found in the most

unlikely places.) If blacks complain of racism (which they don't do

nearly as much as they could, and don't because they want to try to

have a calm life and besides it goes nowhere) they are accused of

being whiny troublemakers. So I complain, since I'm white. Racists

don't respect blacks so they will do the most ridiculous things to

them that they wouldn't be caught dead doing to anyone else for fear

of criticism and embarrassment. Many are not outwardly rascist but

subtley, insiduously, which is worst of all. It's an extremely ugly

thing that diretly results in blacks not being able to get ahead on

their jobs, or in society. As a result blacks really hate to see

another black 'go over to the other side'. They want a strong black

person to be their spokesman because they sorely need it. It does

end up stifling individuality a little. But you have to look where

the fault lies...

>

> These are a couple of links to stories I find amusing and sad. They

are

> about how black Republicans are treated by black Democrats. Anyone

else doing

> these things would be brought up for hate crimes, yet the black

Democrat

> " leaders " call it justified. Well, let them keep it up. The bigger

fools they make

> of themselves like this, the more they are going to drive decent

blacks to the

> Republicans.

>

>

>

> _http://www.washingtontimes.com/metro/20051101-104932-4054r.htm_

> (http://www.washingtontimes.com/metro/20051101-104932-4054r.htm)

>

> _http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=47167_

> (http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=47167)

>

[Guest guest]

The past couple days I kept turning on the TV and seeing Parks,

Parks, Parks.

I quickly got tired of seeing all that media coverage, but then the

reason I can afford to get tired of it is that I am white and her

civil rights action meant very little to me personally. What she

fought for by sitting in the front of the bus that day was a right I

always had and never lost, thus I don't think I could ever appreciate

what was won through that action as much as an African American could.

That caused me to reflect on AS and Autistic people and how we are

regarded and treated. I realize that, to a degree, I do hide myself

and my true nature from others and am sometimes made to feel ashamed

of myself.

This must be how black people have felt and sometimes do feel.

The moral of the story is that what happened to black people years ago

can happen to any one at any time for any reason, and THAT is the

lesson Parks taught me. And now I think I will try to learn more

about her...

Tom

Administrator

Many are not outwardly rascist but subtley, insiduously, which is

worst of all. It's an extremely ugly thing that diretly results in

blacks not being able to get ahead on their jobs, or in society. As a

result blacks really hate to see another black 'go over to the other

side'. They want a strong black person to be their spokesman because

they sorely need it. It does end up stifling individuality a little.

But you have to look where the fault lies...

[Guest guest]

It is encouraging that our Aspie sense of justice and our

understanding of what it's like to be treated with prejudice and

intolerance could be a great help in this and other matters involving

prejudice and intolerance.

>

> Many are not outwardly rascist but subtley, insiduously, which is

> worst of all. It's an extremely ugly thing that diretly results in

> blacks not being able to get ahead on their jobs, or in society. As

a

> result blacks really hate to see another black 'go over to the

other

> side'. They want a strong black person to be their spokesman

because

> they sorely need it. It does end up stifling individuality a

little.

> But you have to look where the fault lies...

>

[Guest guest]

>Tom: "The moral of the story is that what happened to black people years ago can happen to any one at any time for any reason, and THAT is the lesson Parks taught me. And now I think I will try to learn more about her..."Good! It is difficult to think of another person who, with so little thought or effort, has made such a change for the better in all of our lives! God bless !  Rainbow

[Guest guest]

" Good! It is difficult to think of another person who, with so little

> thought or effort, has made such a change for the better in all of

> our lives! God bless ! "

Actually, though it's often thought that all she did was refuse to give

up her seat because she was tired and her feet were hurting, she did it

on purpose, as a protest, and she was very active in the civil rights

movement prior to the incident. It was actually her name being known

when this happened that contributed toward the 'last straw' feeling and

Luther King and others decided to jump into action. They knew

she would be tough enough to withstand the court case. Many others

were protesting by refusing to give up their seats at this time and

were thrown off their busses, or arrested but she was jailed, possibly

because they knew she was active in civil rights and she also didn't

have a downtrodden, 'yessa massa' attitude as many blacks did at that

time. Four people, including her, refused to give up their seats, but

the other three gave in and did so, whereas she refused. When the

driver threatened to call the police she said, 'Go ahead and call

them. " , a brave thing to do in Alabama in 1955.

[Guest guest]

I think the point of the article was missed. Racism wasn't the issue, it was just the means of attack. Political beliefs and philosophy were behind all of this.

The man being attacked was a black Republican. He believes that all people, blacks included, should be able to do for themselves and not rely on the state. The black Democrats are just the opposite, support the old notions of more welfare and more free programs especially for blacks.

What I find interesting about this is that studies and polls show that more and more blacks are turning to the Republican party because they want to do for themselves and want to get away from welfare and terrible public schools, which are what the Democrats support.

The racial attacks that were made on this man were made by other blacks. Oreo Cookie is what they call a person that is "Black on the outside but white on the inside". That is a really racist thing to say about someone. They are saying the same thing about Clarence because he doesn't toe the "black line".

Now, what is interesting about this is what the blacks that attacked these men are saying. The attacked men were saying that you can make your own way if you study and keep you nose clean. The others are in essence saying that blacks can't compete in the world and need welfare and all those other programs. I think the latter is a very racist point of view that is being preptrated by blacks upon other blacks.

Like I said in my earlier comments, I hope they keep up such attacks and even get worse. It will expose to everyone just where each side stands and people can decide whether they want to advance themselves or stay on the federal plantation.

[Guest guest]

I'm a bit confused on this - on the one hand I do not believe in hand

outs, but saying that I am on benefits.

I would love to return to college and am planning on doing so - but

how possible is this? For one it is not only decent affordable

education needed, for everyone, but in my case childcare too and with

my son it needs to be specialised childcare - or at least one that

can deal with a High Functioning Autistic boy, of which there is

certainly a lack of to almost nothing where I live.

Still where there is a will there is a way :-)

>

> I think the point of the article was missed. Racism wasn't the

issue, it was

> just the means of attack. Political beliefs and philosophy were

behind all

> of this.

>

> The man being attacked was a black Republican. He believes that all

people,

> blacks included, should be able to do for themselves and not rely

on the

> state. The black Democrats are just the opposite, support the old

notions of more

> welfare and more free programs especially for blacks.

>

> What I find interesting about this is that studies and polls show

that more

> and more blacks are turning to the Republican party because they

want to do

> for themselves and want to get away from welfare and terrible

public schools,

> which are what the Democrats support.

>

> The racial attacks that were made on this man were made by other

blacks.

> Oreo Cookie is what they call a person that is " Black on the

outside but white

> on the inside " . That is a really racist thing to say about someone.

They are

> saying the same thing about Clarence because he doesn't toe

the " black

> line " .

>

> Now, what is interesting about this is what the blacks that

attacked these

> men are saying. The attacked men were saying that you can make your

own way if

> you study and keep you nose clean. The others are in essence saying

that

> blacks can't compete in the world and need welfare and all those

other programs.

> I think the latter is a very racist point of view that is being

preptrated by

> blacks upon other blacks.

>

> Like I said in my earlier comments, I hope they keep up such

attacks and

> even get worse. It will expose to everyone just where each side

stands and

> people can decide whether they want to advance themselves or stay

on the federal

> plantation.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

The idea of the "Federal Plantation" isn't mine, but is one that has been around for at least 40 years and maybe longer. I have also read several black conservatives use this term as well. The Federal Planation referrs to the welfare state. The idea is that many blacks chose to go on welfare at the establishment of the Great Society and generations have been stuck there since. Those people have been trapped in bad neighbors, bad buildings, high crime and little hope. The Fed kept giving more and more money though and only demanded votes in return. The idea being that some blacks gave up freedom for the Federal Plantation: a paycheck they could earn by going to the ballot box every now and then.

This makes sense if you look at the history behind it. Every year since WW2, the poverty level across the board was dropping. Each year, fewer and fewer people were stuck in poverty. At the time 's Great Society program was put in place, the poverty rate was about 12% and falling. Once the Great Society was put in place, that rate stabilized. It has risen some over time and dropped some, but it has never broken that floor.

I like Winston Churchill's quote on welfare, or The Dole as the English called it. Unfortunately I can't think of the exact wording right now, but he essentially said that The Dole "destroys a man's soul and turns him into something less than human." While reading and older issue of The Civil War Times (a history magazine about the Civil War) there was an article about and abolitionist Union officer who had an interesting take on it. He believed slavery was bad for whites because it gave the impression that there was some work that was too low for them to do. The Dole has the same effect on people. By giving a price floor value for not working at all, they can look at the work available and decide whether to take a job or stay on welfare.

This of course is not limited to blacks: there are whites who do this too and I have seen some. In the early 1990s when I was first going to college, there was a white girl in one of my classes. She was talking with the professor before class one day saying how she was tired of working and was thinking about going on welfare and having babies for more money. Well, that's what she did. I knew of a few others who also dropped out of college and did much the same thing.

Well, I've rambled a bit, but the basica idea of the Federal Plantation is of a return to slavery of a sort: the slavery of the welfare system in exchange for a vote. This time is coming to an end though as people are moving out of welfare because of the reforms and there is a growing call for more reform still. I see this as a good thing because it will give people a chance to regain their dignity, lower crime and save scarce federal resources for those who really need it.

[Guest guest]

Tom,

I understant what you are saying. I try to avoid humanity as much as possible.

Your idea of the hive is interesting, but I have always found that disturbing. It is too much of a surrender of the self for the whole. What I would prefer to see is a system where everyone is taught to value individual effort as a means of advancing the whole. So, each person would pursue their own legal and ethical interests with a secondary goal of doing their best for society as well.

This would mean things like staying out of crime, avoiding drunkeness and habitual partying and drugs, etc. It would also mean doing your best at work, making an effort to get along with others (not like them mind you, but remaining civil towards them), avoiding rudeness and political games and backstabbing at work and elsewhere, avoiding excess debt and so on.

If everyone, or at least the great majority, follwed this, then a given society should do well for itself. I agree that the US is beginning to lose this and it is little wonder. The politicians have divided up all these categories each with its own special set asides, priviledges and rights. More and more groups are clambering for such status as well. This naturally has the effect of fragmenting society and pitting group against group for the federal spoils. I think the politicians like this, and the lack of civics education, because it allows them to pull stunts like the McCain-Finegold incumbent protection act passed a few years ago. Not so much as a whimper was raised when the politicians put a big muzzle on the voters ability to speak against the incumbent. I think we are going from a lawful society to a chaotic one, and I wonder just how long we are going to be able to stand.

[Guest guest]

> Like I said in my earlier comments, I hope they keep up such

attacks and

> even get worse. It will expose to everyone just where each side

stands and

> people can decide whether they want to advance themselves or stay

on the federal

> plantation.

Ah, but I'm saying that the issue is racism, as many white cannot

discern the true issues here and cannot see what is really going on.

That's funny that you should use that word: 'plantation'. It relates

to a story regarding my husband's job. My husband is an excellent

salesman. He's had 4 calls from the corporate office at his last job

trying to get him to come back to work for them and another call from

another company trying to recruit him, in the last 6 months. He

works 80 hours a week and sometimes drives 150 miles a day. Skills

and hard work are not his problems. An interesting trend has

developed on his job: all the black salespeople (and a white

salesman who is nearly 400 pounds) are being written up for things

that they haven't done but that have been invented by management, and

as a result none of them are getting leads anymore. Each month

a 'token' black will be given leads, a different one each month, as a

smokescreen. A month or so earlier he was told by his white boss that

many whites are intimidated by educated, well-spoken blacks. Also

sometimes my husband will arrive at a customer's house for an

appointment and when the homeowner answers the door and see him

they'll say, " We changed our minds. " My husband will say, " But I just

spoke to you 10 minutes ago. " They'll say, " Well, we changed our

minds. " My husband works for a company called 'Protection One'. A

fellow (black) employee of my husband said to him, " We're working for

Plantation One " as a joke. They're trying to force them to quit. My

husband is hanging on, working even harder to drum up business but

probably will not make quota. If he gets fired, will he accept

unemployment? You betcha.

[Guest guest]

You know, once in a while, when I begin to hate the world, I like to

pretend that I don't actually live in it. I pretend that the HUMAN

world is an aquarium and that I can look into it, but not interfere

with it.

Viewed from that perspective, and when you compare the earth-

aquarium to an ant farm, one realizes that ants are much more

efficient than humans. Except for the fact that rival ant colonies

war with each other, there is not much to say by way of criticism

about ants. Each ant has a place in ant society. Each ant does its

task day in and day out. And as long as each ant does what it is

supposed to do, it lives and lives fairly comfortably.

Humans, on the other hand, constantly work against each other by

having no real organized system except social ones that exclude

anyone deemed inferior, and these social rankings are based more on

prejudice than fact.

Thus you have people trying to screw each other over to get other

people's jobs just because they are too incompetent to get them by

their own skills or on their own merits. As a result, you ultimately

have incompetent people doing work better suited for others who have

proven themselves more skilled, but who cannot get the jobs because

they are prejudiced against.

It's a backwards system that causes me to sometimes wish I was an

ant rather than a human.

Tom

Administrator

" Like I said in my earlier comments, I hope they keep up such

attacks and even get worse. It will expose to everyone just where

each side stands and people can decide whether they want to advance

themselves or stay on the federal plantation. "

Ah, but I'm saying that the issue is racism, as many white cannot

discern the true issues here and cannot see what is really going on.

That's funny that you should use that word: 'plantation'. It relates

to a story regarding my husband's job. My husband is an excellent

salesman. He's had 4 calls from the corporate office at his last job

trying to get him to come back to work for them and another call from

another company trying to recruit him, in the last 6 months. He

works 80 hours a week and sometimes drives 150 miles a day. Skills

and hard work are not his problems. An interesting trend has

developed on his job: all the black salespeople (and a white

salesman who is nearly 400 pounds) are being written up for things

that they haven't done but that have been invented by management, and

as a result none of them are getting leads anymore. Each month

a 'token' black will be given leads, a different one each month, as a

smokescreen. A month or so earlier he was told by his white boss that

many whites are intimidated by educated, well-spoken blacks. Also

sometimes my husband will arrive at a customer's house for an

appointment and when the homeowner answers the door and see him

they'll say, " We changed our minds. " My husband will say, " But I just

spoke to you 10 minutes ago. " They'll say, " Well, we changed our

minds. " My husband works for a company called 'Protection One'. A

fellow (black) employee of my husband said to him, " We're working for

Plantation One " as a joke. They're trying to force them to quit. My

husband is hanging on, working even harder to drum up business but

probably will not make quota. If he gets fired, will he accept

unemployment? You betcha.

[Guest guest]

Yeah, it's a difficult situation. And some are second generation

welfare, which is the way they're raised, making it more difficult.

Mannerisms, ideas and ways of speaking are taught and hard to

eradicate. Despite what a lot of people believe, the way some blacks

talk which makes it hard for them to get a good job, is not something

they can just change at will. The mouth is formed one way as a child--

look at someone who tries to get rid of a foreign accent--often they

cannot do it, it's the same thing. Minimum wage won't pay the bills

unless you live with 19 other people as the Mexican people do (as an

Aspie, I'd rather live in the woods!)And look how Mexicans are

treated--it's just that it's economically so much better here so

they're willing to put up with it, whereas blacks are Americans and

want to finally have the full rights of an American.

My contention, though, is that racism, not politics or programs or

money or education plays the largest part in blacks not being able to

raise themselves up to the level of whites. Who wants to work for $5

whatever an hour only to be treated like dirt? So, welfare to avoid

the hurt or drug dealer and have nice things and get respect.

Often,those that are prejudiced would never admit or show it to

others of their race because it's not politically correct, but only

reveal it to the race they are prejudiced against, thus making it

difficult to spot. I've known many prejudiced whites that would swear

up and down that they are not so because their pride won't let them

see that they could have a 'dirty' trait such as prejudice. Others

know they're prejudiced, they just don't want to reveal it to others.

I see a lot of things that other whites never see and in fact I used

to be one of the ones that thought that blacks were making a big deal

out of nothing, having been raised solely around whites and only

making black friends as I got older. And how do you change people's

attitudes and hearts? Prejudice is deep rooted and irrational. It's

not responsive to logic. Until people change their hearts, racism and

prejudice will prevail.

>

> The idea of the " Federal Plantation " isn't mine, but is one that

has been

> around for at least 40 years and maybe longer. I have also read

several black

> conservatives use this term as well. The Federal Planation referrs

to the

> welfare state. The idea is that many blacks chose to go on welfare

at the

> establishment of the Great Society and generations have been stuck

there since.

> Those people have been trapped in bad neighbors, bad buildings,

high crime and

> little hope. The Fed kept giving more and more money though and

only demanded

> votes in return. The idea being that some blacks gave up freedom

for the

> Federal Plantation: a paycheck they could earn by going to the

ballot box every now

> and then.

>

> This makes sense if you look at the history behind it. Every year

since WW2,

> the poverty level across the board was dropping. Each year, fewer

and fewer

> people were stuck in poverty. At the time 's Great Society

program was

> put in place, the poverty rate was about 12% and falling. Once the

Great

> Society was put in place, that rate stabilized. It has risen some

over time and

> dropped some, but it has never broken that floor.

>

> I like Winston Churchill's quote on welfare, or The Dole as the

English

> called it. Unfortunately I can't think of the exact wording right

now, but he

> essentially said that The Dole " destroys a man's soul and turns him

into

> something less than human. " While reading and older issue of The

Civil War Times (a

> history magazine about the Civil War) there was an article about

and

> abolitionist Union officer who had an interesting take on it. He

believed slavery was

> bad for whites because it gave the impression that there was some

work that

> was too low for them to do. The Dole has the same effect on people.

By giving

> a price floor value for not working at all, they can look at the

work

> available and decide whether to take a job or stay on welfare.

>

> This of course is not limited to blacks: there are whites who do

this too

> and I have seen some. In the early 1990s when I was first going to

college,

> there was a white girl in one of my classes. She was talking with

the professor

> before class one day saying how she was tired of working and was

thinking

> about going on welfare and having babies for more money. Well,

that's what she

> did. I knew of a few others who also dropped out of college and

did much the

> same thing.

>

> Well, I've rambled a bit, but the basica idea of the Federal

Plantation is

> of a return to slavery of a sort: the slavery of the welfare system

in exchange

> for a vote. This time is coming to an end though as people are

moving out of

> welfare because of the reforms and there is a growing call for

more reform

> still. I see this as a good thing because it will give people a

chance to

> regain their dignity, lower crime and save scarce federal

resources for those who

> really need it.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>: "as an Aspie, I'd rather live in the woods!"LOL! I do! Four miles from the highway, ten miles from town.  Rainbow

[Guest guest]

That's so nice, Rainbow! Only the sounds and sights of nature...

>

> >: " as an Aspie, I'd rather live in the woods! "

>

> LOL! I do! Four miles from the highway, ten miles from town.

>

> Rainbow

>

[Guest guest]

>: "That's so nice, Rainbow! Only the sounds and sights of nature..."And the day long thunder of bulldozers chomping up the forest to put in more vineyards....... As if we didn't have enough alcohol in our lives.  Rainbow

[Guest guest]

Oh, that's too bad. The only thing worse than living in a concrete

jungle is leaving in a beautiful spot and watching them tear it up. I

guess the one concession for you is that at least they're not putting

in concrete or another man-made substance.

>

> >: " That's so nice, Rainbow! Only the sounds and sights of

> nature... "

>

> And the day long thunder of bulldozers chomping up the forest to put

> in more vineyards....... As if we didn't have enough alcohol in our

> lives.

> Rainbow

>

[Guest guest]

I had jobs when I was kid too. The problem was I would try to work with some of the other neighborhood kids. We'd get something set up and then they'd leave me to do all the work and still expect their cut of the money. Well, there were too many yards for me to do by myself and if I did some and didn't give them "their share" they take it all. So that stopped. I collected cans too for a while and did some other things but again those kids were the problem. They wouldn't demand my money, but they would harass me while I was trying to work. So that stopped too.

Anyway, it has worked out in the end. The leader of all that is about my age, 31, but he's still a kid. He left his wife because their child, born several years ago, was premature and his wife developed cancer. Now he's living with his mother again and pays his wife $1,000 per month child support. I don't know what he does for work because from all I hear he doesn't want any responsibilities and just wants to party every night. Too bad he and his kin lived in this neighborhood and not some of my other friends. Had my one good local friend lived here in their stead, we could have really had some good businesses going.

[Guest guest]

" Yes, but we are still left with a sickening feeling concerning our

> (human) lack of understanding of and empathy for nature (Gaia). "

I know I am! I live in a city that is in a growth period and seeing the

trees crashing down and replaced with poorly built overly large homes

on tiny plots of land crammed together is too depressing. The birds and

animals flee and try to find homes. I get a lot of beautiful birds but

they're starving and overcrowded. There are natural springs and streams

being filled in and natural ecosystems and who knows what rare plants

and animals are being lost. I saw some amazing creatures at a

construction site, including a giant yellow moth! I really don't

undertsand these crazy NTs! It also reminds me of the shows on HGTV. I

like to watch the landcaping ones but I see that NTs will take a

beautiful green backyard (they say it's ugly, overgrown and unusable--

there's their rapacious consumer mindset again!) and spend $20,000 and

up to tear out old, established greenery and replace it with concrete &

stone and other hardscape in order to have another 'room' on the

outside of their house (as if they don't have enough rooms inside).

They'll throw in a few plants so people know it's still a yard. Oh the

ignorance and arrogance of people who forget they are tenants on the

earth, not owners!

I think that Gaia stuff is interesting. There does seem to be something

like a living earth. Have you seen this amazing stuff about the

properties of water: http://www.energetic-

medicine.net/research/conciousness%20of%20water.htm

>

> See: http://www.oceansonline.com/gaiaho.htm

>

> Rainbow

>

[Guest guest]

Again, though, 'lazy' and 'criminal' can be moral judgements made on

people who didn't have the same chances as we did or the same

upbringing and culture.

I have a big problem with this statement.

There is another sort of discrimination that takes place and that is

discrimination against the wealthy or those who appear to be in good

circumstances.

The only advatage I ever had was an allowance of $ .25 a week when I

was 7 which went up to $5.00 a week by the time I was 12. Then I quit

with the allowance, because by that time I was working two part time

jobs at $3.35 an hour and had 5 lawn jobs at $5.00 a piece. I raked

leaves in the fall, shoveled snow in the winter, and also edged lawns

and trimmed bushes and trees in the spring and summer.

At the age of ten I was already reading the stock and mutual fund

tables in the newspaper and I took my earnings and invested them with

my father acting as custodian. He let the money sit where I put it

however so that I would learn lessons by investing unwisely.

I never did. Except for 401Ks where you only had limited fund options

in which to invest, I have NEVER lost money on investments. Even after

fees and operating expenses are deducted I still always fared better

than money invested in a regular savings or even long term CD would

yield. The current year to date interest yield on one of my funds is

38%, and ANYBODY could be getting that rate had they had they took the

time to learn about investing and determined where to put their money.

With my earnings from the ages of 12 to 17, I paid for books, room and

board, and expenses at college in addition to auto insurance (and

could easily have paid for tuition if my parents decided not to help

there).

When I graduated, there was nothing available in my area of expertise,

so I got a job as a janitor, still trimmed trees for spare cash, and

additionally worked as a courier at one of the places I cleaned for,

and then, in addition to those two jobs (and any spare cash I could

get on the side, including getting money for recycled aluminum cans),

as a bookkeeper. Eventually, while still keep the job as a janitor,

and while still investing my earnings, I kept getting promoted until I

supervised 8 people that balnced accounts for 150 banks in a

bookkeeping department.

I can now buy a house and a car in cash, and can make enough to pay

the taxes and expenses and STILL have enough money to retire

comfortably, while my friends are in debt, borrowed to the hilt, and

can't understand where the jobs are.

They resent the fact that I have all this money and figure I must have

been born rich, yet none of them will do anything so disgusting as

clean a toilet to earn money.

The fact is, if you want to make it in this world, you have to put

your shoulder to the wheel and shove hard. I shoved hard early on and

can retire much earlier than other people if I want to.

While other kids were goofing off playing Atari and smoking dope, I

held jobs, and while other high school and college graduates were

whining that employers didn't batter down their doors to give them

jobs, I was cleaning bathrooms and delivering correspondance between

offices and doing bookkeeping at a salary level that was far less than

what I was worth.

I ignored peer pressure and never tried an illegal drug. Never took my

first drink until I was of legal age.

I KNOW that people are born into lives where the cards are stacked

against them, but with will and determination there ARE outs, and no

one who has made it out should have that held against him or her.

Tom

P.S. One thing I did as a kid and after I was out of college and

jobless, and even when I had those three jobs at once was also to

collect aluminum cans, copper and brass, and sometimes stuff people

used to throw out, such as the aluminum around window panes, old

copper radiator pipes with aluminum fins that were thrown out during

building remodlings, etc, and sold it all to a recycling company.

The price of aluminum fluctuated but was sometimes as much as .20

cents a pound and copper was as much as .45 cents a pound. (Can't

remember how much brass sold for.)

From selling that stuff to the recyler over the years I earned

$3,000.00 (all of which I invested) and have since doubled the amount

of money through interest.

Keep in mind that's $6,000.00 that was generated from GARBAGE and hard

work.

Anyone can do it, but most people don't because they consider it

beneath themselves to do such things.

[Guest guest]

Not that I am looking forward to this, but right now the bird flu

kills one out of every two people it comes in contact with and tests

have shown that it has already mutated in human hosts, although it

cannot yet spread from human to human. But if it does, and if the

50% death rate remains, and if the flu spread around the entire

world, it would halve the human population and the world would be

less crowded, sort of like it was 30 years ago when I was a kid.

And life would not be that bad for those who survived either. There

would be all this stuff around with half as many people left alive

to use it, and all the monetary and material wealth that had been

accumulated by the dead people would be passed on to the survivors.

Not that it would be paradise. The loss of all those people would be

incredibly sad, but one has to ask oneself if " progress " as we know

it is heading in the right direction anyway. With society possibly

about to be fragmented through this impending catastrophy, perhaps

those that remain will THINK about what they will do and how they

will do it going forward, and the animal and natural world would

hopefully benefit from such consideration.

Tom

" Yes, but we are still left with a sickening feeling concerning our

> (human) lack of understanding of and empathy for nature (Gaia). "

I know I am! I live in a city that is in a growth period and seeing

the trees crashing down and replaced with poorly built overly large

homes on tiny plots of land crammed together is too depressing. The

birds and animals flee and try to find homes. I get a lot of

beautiful birds but they're starving and overcrowded. There are

natural springs and streams being filled in and natural ecosystems

and who knows what rare plants and animals are being lost. I saw

some amazing creatures at a construction site, including a giant

yellow moth! I really don't undertsand these crazy NTs! It also

reminds me of the shows on HGTV. I like to watch the landcaping ones

but I see that NTs will take a beautiful green backyard (they say

it's ugly, overgrown and unusable-- there's their rapacious consumer

mindset again!) and spend $20,000 and up to tear out old,

established greenery and replace it with concrete & stone and other

hardscape in order to have another 'room' on the outside of their

house (as if they don't have enough rooms inside).

They'll throw in a few plants so people know it's still a yard. Oh

the ignorance and arrogance of people who forget they are tenants on

the earth, not owners!

I think that Gaia stuff is interesting. There does seem to be

something like a living earth. Have you seen this amazing stuff

about the properties of water: http://www.energetic-

medicine.net/research/conciousness%20of%20water.htm

>

> See: http://www.oceansonline.com/gaiaho.htm

>

> Rainbow

>

[Guest guest]

But see, that's just why I'm saying that they can be moral judgements-

-for the same reason that moral judgements are made against the

rich: they must not have had to do anything to earn it, they must

have done something illegal or immoral to get it, they're

just 'lucky' and were in the right time and/or place, and other

stereotypes like these. You worked really hard but who saw the full

extent of your effort but you? Someone comes along at a point where

you're enjoying the fruits of your labor and makes judgements that

have no basis in reality. For the same reasons, someone might look

at someone who can't find work as lazy, not seeing what efforts they

have made to little avail. I once saw a talk show that had a panel of

upset and crying wealthy people. They were in pain because no one

would acknowledge that they could have the same problems as the rest

of humanity--one woman said she couldn't be sick because people would

tell her, 'You're rich, you're not allowed to be sick, you have it

all.' Prejudice is wrong whereever you find it. But what I am

saying, which is just naturally hard for people to understand, is

that many of us by being white and middle class have advantages that

we take for granted and just assume that everyone is born with. We

pick up things such as how we speak and think and understand the

world, as well as having opportunities open to us that we assume are

open to anyone that works hard and applies themself or has the right

attitude. Think of things your family did, as an example, that you

just assumed everyone did until you got older and learned other

families do things different ways. This is even more subtle and

intrinsic than that and is the reason most people do not understand

the differences. Surely you can see this in being Aspergers where

people expect certain things of you that they just assume you have or

can do and refuse to believe that you don't have them or can do them,

because they can/they have.

>

> Again, though, 'lazy' and 'criminal' can be moral judgements made on

> people who didn't have the same chances as we did or the same

> upbringing and culture.

>

> I have a big problem with this statement.

>

> There is another sort of discrimination that takes place and that

is

> discrimination against the wealthy or those who appear to be in

good

> circumstances.

>

> The only advatage I ever had was an allowance of $ .25 a week when

I

> was 7 which went up to $5.00 a week by the time I was 12. Then I

quit

> with the allowance, because by that time I was working two part

time

> jobs at $3.35 an hour and had 5 lawn jobs at $5.00 a piece. I raked

> leaves in the fall, shoveled snow in the winter, and also edged

lawns

> and trimmed bushes and trees in the spring and summer.

>

> At the age of ten I was already reading the stock and mutual fund

> tables in the newspaper and I took my earnings and invested them

with

> my father acting as custodian. He let the money sit where I put it

> however so that I would learn lessons by investing unwisely.

>

> I never did. Except for 401Ks where you only had limited fund

options

> in which to invest, I have NEVER lost money on investments. Even

after

> fees and operating expenses are deducted I still always fared

better

> than money invested in a regular savings or even long term CD would

> yield. The current year to date interest yield on one of my funds

is

> 38%, and ANYBODY could be getting that rate had they had they took

the

> time to learn about investing and determined where to put their

money.

>

> With my earnings from the ages of 12 to 17, I paid for books, room

and

> board, and expenses at college in addition to auto insurance (and

> could easily have paid for tuition if my parents decided not to

help

> there).

>

> When I graduated, there was nothing available in my area of

expertise,

> so I got a job as a janitor, still trimmed trees for spare cash,

and

> additionally worked as a courier at one of the places I cleaned

for,

> and then, in addition to those two jobs (and any spare cash I could

> get on the side, including getting money for recycled aluminum

cans),

> as a bookkeeper. Eventually, while still keep the job as a

janitor,

> and while still investing my earnings, I kept getting promoted

until I

> supervised 8 people that balnced accounts for 150 banks in a

> bookkeeping department.

>

> I can now buy a house and a car in cash, and can make enough to pay

> the taxes and expenses and STILL have enough money to retire

> comfortably, while my friends are in debt, borrowed to the hilt,

and

> can't understand where the jobs are.

>

> They resent the fact that I have all this money and figure I must

have

> been born rich, yet none of them will do anything so disgusting as

> clean a toilet to earn money.

>

> The fact is, if you want to make it in this world, you have to put

> your shoulder to the wheel and shove hard. I shoved hard early on

and

> can retire much earlier than other people if I want to.

>

> While other kids were goofing off playing Atari and smoking dope, I

> held jobs, and while other high school and college graduates were

> whining that employers didn't batter down their doors to give them

> jobs, I was cleaning bathrooms and delivering correspondance

between

> offices and doing bookkeeping at a salary level that was far less

than

> what I was worth.

>

> I ignored peer pressure and never tried an illegal drug. Never took

my

> first drink until I was of legal age.

>

> I KNOW that people are born into lives where the cards are stacked

> against them, but with will and determination there ARE outs, and

no

> one who has made it out should have that held against him or her.

>

> Tom

>

> P.S. One thing I did as a kid and after I was out of college and

> jobless, and even when I had those three jobs at once was also to

> collect aluminum cans, copper and brass, and sometimes stuff people

> used to throw out, such as the aluminum around window panes, old

> copper radiator pipes with aluminum fins that were thrown out

during

> building remodlings, etc, and sold it all to a recycling company.

>

> The price of aluminum fluctuated but was sometimes as much as .20

> cents a pound and copper was as much as .45 cents a pound. (Can't

> remember how much brass sold for.)

>

> From selling that stuff to the recyler over the years I earned

> $3,000.00 (all of which I invested) and have since doubled the

amount

> of money through interest.

>

> Keep in mind that's $6,000.00 that was generated from GARBAGE and

hard

> work.

>

> Anyone can do it, but most people don't because they consider it

> beneath themselves to do such things.

>

[Guest guest]

But see, that's just why I'm saying that they can be moral judgements-

-for the same reason that moral judgements are made against the

rich: they must not have had to do anything to earn it, they must

have done something illegal or immoral to get it, they're

just 'lucky' and were in the right time and/or place, and other

stereotypes like these. You worked really hard but who saw the full

extent of your effort but you? Someone comes along at a point where

you're enjoying the fruits of your labor and makes judgements that

have no basis in reality. For the same reasons, someone might look

at someone who can't find work as lazy, not seeing what efforts they

have made to little avail. I once saw a talk show that had a panel of

upset and crying wealthy people. They were in pain because no one

would acknowledge that they could have the same problems as the rest

of humanity--one woman said she couldn't be sick because people would

tell her, 'You're rich, you're not allowed to be sick, you have it

all.' Prejudice is wrong whereever you find it. But what I am

saying, which is just naturally hard for people to understand, is

that many of us by being white and middle class have advantages that

we take for granted and just assume that everyone is born with. We

pick up things such as how we speak and think and understand the

world, as well as having opportunities open to us that we assume are

open to anyone that works hard and applies themself or has the right

attitude. Think of things your family did, as an example, that you

just assumed everyone did until you got older and learned other

families do things different ways. This is even more subtle and

intrinsic than that and is the reason most people do not understand

the differences. Surely you can see this in being Aspergers where

people expect certain things of you that they just assume you have or

can do and refuse to believe that you don't have them or can do them,

because they can/they have.

>

> Again, though, 'lazy' and 'criminal' can be moral judgements made on

> people who didn't have the same chances as we did or the same

> upbringing and culture.

>

> I have a big problem with this statement.

>

> There is another sort of discrimination that takes place and that

is

> discrimination against the wealthy or those who appear to be in

good

> circumstances.

>

> The only advatage I ever had was an allowance of $ .25 a week when

I

> was 7 which went up to $5.00 a week by the time I was 12. Then I

quit

> with the allowance, because by that time I was working two part

time

> jobs at $3.35 an hour and had 5 lawn jobs at $5.00 a piece. I raked

> leaves in the fall, shoveled snow in the winter, and also edged

lawns

> and trimmed bushes and trees in the spring and summer.

>

> At the age of ten I was already reading the stock and mutual fund

> tables in the newspaper and I took my earnings and invested them

with

> my father acting as custodian. He let the money sit where I put it

> however so that I would learn lessons by investing unwisely.

>

> I never did. Except for 401Ks where you only had limited fund

options

> in which to invest, I have NEVER lost money on investments. Even

after

> fees and operating expenses are deducted I still always fared

better

> than money invested in a regular savings or even long term CD would

> yield. The current year to date interest yield on one of my funds

is

> 38%, and ANYBODY could be getting that rate had they had they took

the

> time to learn about investing and determined where to put their

money.

>

> With my earnings from the ages of 12 to 17, I paid for books, room

and

> board, and expenses at college in addition to auto insurance (and

> could easily have paid for tuition if my parents decided not to

help

> there).

>

> When I graduated, there was nothing available in my area of

expertise,

> so I got a job as a janitor, still trimmed trees for spare cash,

and

> additionally worked as a courier at one of the places I cleaned

for,

> and then, in addition to those two jobs (and any spare cash I could

> get on the side, including getting money for recycled aluminum

cans),

> as a bookkeeper. Eventually, while still keep the job as a

janitor,

> and while still investing my earnings, I kept getting promoted

until I

> supervised 8 people that balnced accounts for 150 banks in a

> bookkeeping department.

>

> I can now buy a house and a car in cash, and can make enough to pay

> the taxes and expenses and STILL have enough money to retire

> comfortably, while my friends are in debt, borrowed to the hilt,

and

> can't understand where the jobs are.

>

> They resent the fact that I have all this money and figure I must

have

> been born rich, yet none of them will do anything so disgusting as

> clean a toilet to earn money.

>

> The fact is, if you want to make it in this world, you have to put

> your shoulder to the wheel and shove hard. I shoved hard early on

and

> can retire much earlier than other people if I want to.

>

> While other kids were goofing off playing Atari and smoking dope, I

> held jobs, and while other high school and college graduates were

> whining that employers didn't batter down their doors to give them

> jobs, I was cleaning bathrooms and delivering correspondance

between

> offices and doing bookkeeping at a salary level that was far less

than

> what I was worth.

>

> I ignored peer pressure and never tried an illegal drug. Never took

my

> first drink until I was of legal age.

>

> I KNOW that people are born into lives where the cards are stacked

> against them, but with will and determination there ARE outs, and

no

> one who has made it out should have that held against him or her.

>

> Tom

>

> P.S. One thing I did as a kid and after I was out of college and

> jobless, and even when I had those three jobs at once was also to

> collect aluminum cans, copper and brass, and sometimes stuff people

> used to throw out, such as the aluminum around window panes, old

> copper radiator pipes with aluminum fins that were thrown out

during

> building remodlings, etc, and sold it all to a recycling company.

>

> The price of aluminum fluctuated but was sometimes as much as .20

> cents a pound and copper was as much as .45 cents a pound. (Can't

> remember how much brass sold for.)

>

> From selling that stuff to the recyler over the years I earned

> $3,000.00 (all of which I invested) and have since doubled the

amount

> of money through interest.

>

> Keep in mind that's $6,000.00 that was generated from GARBAGE and

hard

> work.

>

> Anyone can do it, but most people don't because they consider it

> beneath themselves to do such things.

>

[Guest guest]

I'm on the fence between believing it's really a threat and looking

at is as a contrived scare to divert peoples' attentions away from

other issues and to get people to take vaccines and buy tamiflu. I've

read articles from both sides. But since it was supposedly found to

only pass from human to human once (and this is not confirmed) I'm

going to hold off on worrying. I'm definitely stocking up on natural

remedies though to fight the regular flu or any flu that comes along.

Olive leaf extract (this worked well on the bad flu last year that I

got), oregano extract/oil, other essential oils, ginseng, astragalus,

sambucol, goldenseal, colloidial silver, eating well with garlic and

spices and dried mushrooms (not the button mushrooms).

>

> " Yes, but we are still left with a sickening feeling concerning our

> > (human) lack of understanding of and empathy for nature (Gaia). "

>

> I know I am! I live in a city that is in a growth period and seeing

> the trees crashing down and replaced with poorly built overly large

> homes on tiny plots of land crammed together is too depressing. The

> birds and animals flee and try to find homes. I get a lot of

> beautiful birds but they're starving and overcrowded. There are

> natural springs and streams being filled in and natural ecosystems

> and who knows what rare plants and animals are being lost. I saw

> some amazing creatures at a construction site, including a giant

> yellow moth! I really don't undertsand these crazy NTs! It also

> reminds me of the shows on HGTV. I like to watch the landcaping

ones

> but I see that NTs will take a beautiful green backyard (they say

> it's ugly, overgrown and unusable-- there's their rapacious

consumer

> mindset again!) and spend $20,000 and up to tear out old,

> established greenery and replace it with concrete & stone and other

> hardscape in order to have another 'room' on the outside of their

> house (as if they don't have enough rooms inside).

>

> They'll throw in a few plants so people know it's still a yard. Oh

> the ignorance and arrogance of people who forget they are tenants

on

> the earth, not owners!

>

> I think that Gaia stuff is interesting. There does seem to be

> something like a living earth. Have you seen this amazing stuff

> about the properties of water: http://www.energetic-

> medicine.net/research/conciousness%20of%20water.htm

> >

> > See: http://www.oceansonline.com/gaiaho.htm

> >

> > Rainbow

> >

>