Re: is this part of thyroid problem?

[Guest guest]

is it your position that there are no empowered people in the world who

have suffered and are currently suffering mood, brain, emotional

disorders?

>

> In a message dated 10/19/2004 4:06:21 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> 420@... writes:

>

>> you can be ill and empowered at the same time.

>

> doesn't this depend on the nature of the illness? if an illness

> affects

> your brain functioning...isn't that a different animal?

> cindi

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

you're going down the slippery slope of now trying to describe

hypothyroid as a " brain disease " .

>

> In a message dated 10/19/2004 4:45:51 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> 420@... writes:

>

>> people engage in all sorts of behaviour without being aware of it for

>> some time

>

> and sometimes because of brain disease...and sometimes not.

> cindi

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> In a message dated 10/19/2004 4:45:51 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> 420@... writes:

>

>> but i don't knock off my

>> thyroid as the reason why i was unaware in the beginning, and that

>> somehow the condition changed and suddenly i was aware.

>>

>>

>

> but this IS my experience with thyroid disease...and others

> too...although

> I'm sure many do not get to this point.

> Cindi

i have to repeat, again, that the original poster was aware of her

behaviour. this wasn't a case of her being completely in the dark

about what's going on. she feels her behaviour has changed and she

doesn't like it.

also, why do you assume that just because you suffered one way with

hypothyroid, that no one else went through the same thing? isn't it

possible that some people have better control over their behaviour and

choices even when afflicted with this disease, than others?

[Guest guest]

baron chat wrote:

>you're going down the slippery slope of now trying to describe

>hypothyroid as a " brain disease " .

>

neurological damage i would consider brain disease - i have lost the

ability to write with a pen or paint among other things and i am

actively relearning. Adult cretinization due to badly treated or

untreated hypothyroid IS a brian disease and it may be incurable if

untreated for too long

--

Alison

http://www.alisonashwell.com

new work uploaded

http://www.artwanted/alisonashwell

[Guest guest]

then why do you keep insisting that you know MY EXPERIENCE, because

that's what you've been trying to do?

aren't you trying to tell me that maybe i didn't have hypothyroid that

bad, or maybe i never got to some point, when in fact i had, and don't

happen to be using it as an excuse for not overcoming the behavioural

side effects that affected my relationships?

i didn't disagree FOR you, but if you're so hung up on your very own

personal experience, maybe you shouldn't be ascribing it to someone

else's, either, mine or the original poster's.

>

> In a message dated 10/19/2004 4:51:15 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> 420@... writes:

>

>> again, i disagree

>

> well see...you can disagree for YOU...but you didn't have my hypo

> experience...so you can't disagree for me.

> being patient,

> cindi

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

then you have your facts sadly wrong. hypothyroid might affect brain

functions and cause depression and anxiety, but so do many illnesses,

and it is not at all a disease of the brain. trying to pass it off as

one, is hyperbole.

>

> In a message dated 10/19/2004 4:56:02 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> 420@... writes:

>

>>

>>

>> you're going down the slippery slope of now trying to describe

>> hypothyroid as a " brain disease " .

>>

>

> that's not a slippery slope. that is a fact.

> cindi

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

that is an effect of long, untreated hypothyroidism. syphilis has that

same effect, if long untreated. is syphilis a brain disease? i don't

think so.

>

> baron chat wrote:

>

>> you're going down the slippery slope of now trying to describe

>> hypothyroid as a " brain disease " .

>>

> neurological damage i would consider brain disease - i have lost the

> ability to write with a pen or paint among other things and i am

> actively relearning. Adult cretinization due to badly treated or

> untreated hypothyroid IS a brian disease and it may be incurable if

> untreated for too long

>

> --

> Alison

> http://www.alisonashwell.com

> new work uploaded

> http://www.artwanted/alisonashwell

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> In a message dated 10/19/2004 4:56:04 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> 420@... writes:

>

>>

>> is it your position that there are no empowered people in the world

>> who

>> have suffered and are currently suffering mood, brain, emotional

>> disorders?

>>

>

> no. that is not my position.

> cindi

then we both agree it is possible to be empowered despite having a

disease, even one that affects your mood and brain and emotional

functions.

[Guest guest]

i believe the nature of the disease we discussed here, was one that

affected your mood, brain and emotional functions.

you are trying to have it both ways. on one hand you state that it is

impossible to be empowered if you have an illness that affects the

brain. then on the other hand, you do not deny that there are

empowered people with diseases that affect the brain.

why not accept that it has to do with the individual, and that

empowerment is a pro-active choice a person has to make? some people

do, and they try to overcome their challenges. most people don't, and

succumb to it. it's human nature. i have never tried to suggest that

what happened to you wasn't a valid experience, but i don't believe it

has to be everyone's experience, with no possibility of reconciliation,

better communication within a family, and so forth.

even if you argue that she has no control at all over her yelling and

impatience, you could always argue that there are things she can do

while she isn't yelling and impatient, to make her own life and their

lives better and happier. meaning it isn't what she's doing when she's

in a bad way that's important, but what she does between those

outbursts that makes the difference.

baron

>

> In a message dated 10/19/2004 5:11:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> 420@... writes:

>

>> then we both agree it is possible to be empowered despite having a

>> disease, even one that affects your mood and brain and emotional

>> functions.

>>

>

> depends upon the nature of the disease.

> cindi

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> In a message dated 10/19/2004 5:00:26 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> 420@... writes:

>

>> i have to repeat, again, that the original poster was aware of her

>> behaviour. this wasn't a case of her being completely in the dark

>> about what's going on. she feels her behaviour has changed and she

>> doesn't like it.

>>

>

> and she asked if this was part of thyroid disease...and many answered

> yes.

> cindi

including me. i happened to also say it wasn't necessarily ALL her

thyroid, and that it wasn't impossible to do something about

communication now, which you then disagreed with.

[Guest guest]

baron chat wrote:

>and hypothyroidism isn't.

>

>

>

>

>

you can't have it both ways- a disease that causes neurological damage

is a 'brain disease ' . Not everyone gets neurological damage but that

doesn't mean it doesn't happen or that neurological damage caused by

hypoT is called 'neck disease'

--

Alison

http://www.alisonashwell.com

new work uploaded

http://www.artwanted/alisonashwell

[Guest guest]

i've never heard of hypot being called a neck disease.

also, how am i trying to have anything both ways? my stand is that

hypothyroidism is not a brain disease and i stand by it. i'd like to

be corrected if this isn't true, but i need medical fact, and not

subjective interpretation. fyi, any disease that causes neurological

damage is not a brain disease. a brain disease, is a disease or

disorder of the brain. pituitary tumours are a brain disease. they

also cause joint pains. do you consider pituitary tumours a joint

disease? surely you don't consider hypothyroidism also a joint disease

because my joints are affected.

>

> baron chat wrote:

>

>> and hypothyroidism isn't.

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

> you can't have it both ways- a disease that causes neurological damage

> is a 'brain disease ' . Not everyone gets neurological damage but that

> doesn't mean it doesn't happen or that neurological damage caused by

> hypoT is called 'neck disease'

>

>

> --

> Alison

> http://www.alisonashwell.com

> new work uploaded

> http://www.artwanted/alisonashwell

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

baron chat wrote:

>thank you. and along the same lines that pms has caused murders yet

>never been a defense in court, neither would hypothyroidism.

>

Well thankfully that opinion is not universal as severe PMS has been

successfully used as a defense in the uk and other countries.

And given adequate evidence there is no reason to believe that

hypothyroid rage would not be a mitigating circumsatnce as well.

http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/proceedings/16/Easteal2.pdf

actually just found a case of hypothyroid psychois defense:

*Myxedema psychosis--insanity defense in homicide.*

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=7\

410326 & dopt=Abstract

>

>

>

>

see also:

*Hashimoto's Encephalopathy

**A Neuroendocrine Disorder *

http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/hashimotos-encephalopathy.htm

--

Alison

http://www.alisonashwell.com

new work uploaded

http://www.artwanted/alisonashwell

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/19/2004 8:36:51 PM Eastern Standard Time,

artisticgroom@... writes:

> Ah what nice kiddies! Everyone's evening Armour must be kicking in! LOL

> (Cough) but maybe with Baron it is a little smokier over there....

rofl...yea..that T3 peaked and i started loving everyone.

Cindi

[Guest guest]

I & my husbands never had problems with me that affected my marriages. Rather it

was my ALL my husbands' mental illnesses & /or alcoholism & violence that

destroyed the marriages. Me? Depression, aches, pains or whatever, I carried on

as usual at my employment, caring for kids, myself, house, yards, cars,

whatever.

Re: is this part of thyroid problem?

I can relate to this statement, because I became a real tyrant when I

was first sick. Nothing anybody did, most especially my hubby or kids

made me happy.

[Guest guest]

T wrote:

>Don't thank me yet! LOL Just cause it has never been a defense doesn't mean

>I don't think it SHOULD be.

>

>

>

>

>

Severe PMS has been successfully used as a defense

--

Alison

http://www.alisonashwell.com

new work uploaded

http://www.artwanted/alisonashwell

[Guest guest]

That was very well stated , as usual.

Jen R.

-- Re: Re: is this part of thyroid problem?

Well, to my knowledge, PMS has never been a defense in a court of law, but I

can tell you I would be willing to bet my ARMOUR that it has caused murders!

In this same vein, yes, I do believe some hypothyroid people are capable of

murder and violence that is not normally in their nature, but made to happen

by the hypothyroid disease itself, and NO at that point, they do NOT have

control over it & they feel backed into a corner and no options available to

them. When they start to realize they HAVE options, they are coming back

into the focus necessary to heal from this disease, and I think many of us

fade in & out of that focus on a daily or even hourly basis.

*Artistic Grooming * Hurricane, WV

Fat cat? Diabetes? Listowner for overweight or hypothyroid cats

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hypokitties/

[Guest guest]

baron chat wrote:

>thank you. and along the same lines that pms has caused murders yet

>never been a defense in court, neither would hypothyroidism.

>

Well thankfully that opinion is not universal as severe PMS has been

successfully used as a defense in the uk and other countries.

And given adequate evidence there is no reason to believe that

hypothyroid rage would not be a mitigating circumsatnce as well.

http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/proceedings/16/Easteal2.pdf

actually just found a case of hypothyroid psychois defense:

*Myxedema psychosis--insanity defense in homicide.*

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=7\

410326 & dopt=Abstract

>

>

see also:

*Hashimoto's Encephalopathy

**A Neuroendocrine Disorder *

http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/hashimotos-encephalopathy.htm

--

Alison

http://www.alisonashwell.com

new work uploaded

http://www.artwanted/alisonashwell

[Guest guest]

that blows me away. thank you for that link. i'll be interested to

see if there were more of such cases, whether they succeeded or not.

as in, how often is hypothyroid-induced psychosis used as a defense.

>

> baron chat wrote:

>

>> thank you. and along the same lines that pms has caused murders yet

>> never been a defense in court, neither would hypothyroidism.

>>

> Well thankfully that opinion is not universal as severe PMS has been

> successfully used as a defense in the uk and other countries.

> And given adequate evidence there is no reason to believe that

> hypothyroid rage would not be a mitigating circumsatnce as well.

>

> http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/proceedings/16/Easteal2.pdf

>

> actually just found a case of hypothyroid psychois defense:

>

>

> *Myxedema psychosis--insanity defense in homicide.*

>

> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

> cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=7410326 & dopt=Abstract

>

>>

>>

>>

>>

> see also:

> *Hashimoto's Encephalopathy

> **A Neuroendocrine Disorder *

>

> http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/hashimotos-encephalopathy.htm

>

> --

> Alison

> http://www.alisonashwell.com

> new work uploaded

> http://www.artwanted/alisonashwell

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

i believe YOU weren't able to make choices. i do not believe that

EVERYONE ELSE is unable to make choices. i do not believe i was unable

to make choices, no matter how much i was suffering. i believe anyone

else can make choices no matter what. but i believe not everyone can,

nor do i think everyone who can, does.

>

> In a message dated 10/19/2004 5:18:40 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> 420@... writes:

>

>> i'm not angry at all--i'm just finding it difficult to get across to

>> you that i was able to make choices where my behaviour was concerned,

>> when you seem to insist that this was only possible because i didn't

>> suffer hypothyroid as badly as you or some.

>>

>

> I believe you when you say you were able to make choices. Now you

> need to

> believe me and anyone else when we say we were not able to.

> cindi

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

nc2406@... wrote:

>>

>>

>

>same here, allison. in particular I wondered about andrea yates who killed

>her little boys.

>

>

Yes me too, I was thinking of her when i wrote that comment. There have

been a few other women in similar circumstances

--

Alison

http://www.alisonashwell.com

new work uploaded

http://www.artwanted/alisonashwell

[Guest guest]

hashimoto's is a disease of the auto-immune system. hypothyroidism is a

disease of the thyroid. some people have also had their thyroids

partly or completely removed due to hyperthyroid, or thyroid cancer.

none of those are diseases of the brain.

>

> In a message dated 10/19/2004 5:18:40 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> 420@... writes:

>

>> as for hypothyroid being a disease of the brain, you might believe it,

>> but that doesn't make it true

>

> Then what is low thyroid a disease of?

> Cindi

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

it affects a great many things, amongst those, brain function. that

doesn't make it a brain disease, any more than it makes it a joint

disease, a skin disease, a balding disorder, etc..

>

> In a message dated 10/19/2004 5:22:05 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> 420@... writes:

>

>>

>> and hypothyroidism isn't.

>>

>

> and hypothyroidism affects what?

> cindi

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>>dang...when we bet our Armour...it's serious stuff.<<

And you can ask anyone that knows me, I NEVER lose a bet! I am not a gambler

so when I BET, it is already a sure thing! LOL

*Artistic Grooming * Hurricane, WV

Fat cat? Diabetes? Listowner for overweight or hypothyroid cats

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hypokitties/

---

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Version: 6.0.778 / Virus Database: 525 - Release Date: 10/15/2004

[Guest guest]

yes i know. i answered her question. you were arguing other things

that weren't necessarily her question and i was responding to them.

>

> In a message dated 10/19/2004 5:25:39 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> 420@... writes:

>

>> even if you argue that she has no control at all over her yelling and

>> impatience, you could always argue that there are things she can do

>> while she isn't yelling and impatient, to make her own life and their

>> lives better and happier

>

> but that wasn't her question.

> cindi

>

>

>