Guest guest Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 is it your position that there are no empowered people in the world who have suffered and are currently suffering mood, brain, emotional disorders? > > In a message dated 10/19/2004 4:06:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, > 420@... writes: > >> you can be ill and empowered at the same time. > > doesn't this depend on the nature of the illness? if an illness > affects > your brain functioning...isn't that a different animal? > cindi > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 you're going down the slippery slope of now trying to describe hypothyroid as a " brain disease " . > > In a message dated 10/19/2004 4:45:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, > 420@... writes: > >> people engage in all sorts of behaviour without being aware of it for >> some time > > and sometimes because of brain disease...and sometimes not. > cindi > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 > > In a message dated 10/19/2004 4:45:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, > 420@... writes: > >> but i don't knock off my >> thyroid as the reason why i was unaware in the beginning, and that >> somehow the condition changed and suddenly i was aware. >> >> > > but this IS my experience with thyroid disease...and others > too...although > I'm sure many do not get to this point. > Cindi i have to repeat, again, that the original poster was aware of her behaviour. this wasn't a case of her being completely in the dark about what's going on. she feels her behaviour has changed and she doesn't like it. also, why do you assume that just because you suffered one way with hypothyroid, that no one else went through the same thing? isn't it possible that some people have better control over their behaviour and choices even when afflicted with this disease, than others? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 baron chat wrote: >you're going down the slippery slope of now trying to describe >hypothyroid as a " brain disease " . > neurological damage i would consider brain disease - i have lost the ability to write with a pen or paint among other things and i am actively relearning. Adult cretinization due to badly treated or untreated hypothyroid IS a brian disease and it may be incurable if untreated for too long -- Alison http://www.alisonashwell.com new work uploaded http://www.artwanted/alisonashwell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 then why do you keep insisting that you know MY EXPERIENCE, because that's what you've been trying to do? aren't you trying to tell me that maybe i didn't have hypothyroid that bad, or maybe i never got to some point, when in fact i had, and don't happen to be using it as an excuse for not overcoming the behavioural side effects that affected my relationships? i didn't disagree FOR you, but if you're so hung up on your very own personal experience, maybe you shouldn't be ascribing it to someone else's, either, mine or the original poster's. > > In a message dated 10/19/2004 4:51:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, > 420@... writes: > >> again, i disagree > > well see...you can disagree for YOU...but you didn't have my hypo > experience...so you can't disagree for me. > being patient, > cindi > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 then you have your facts sadly wrong. hypothyroid might affect brain functions and cause depression and anxiety, but so do many illnesses, and it is not at all a disease of the brain. trying to pass it off as one, is hyperbole. > > In a message dated 10/19/2004 4:56:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, > 420@... writes: > >> >> >> you're going down the slippery slope of now trying to describe >> hypothyroid as a " brain disease " . >> > > that's not a slippery slope. that is a fact. > cindi > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 that is an effect of long, untreated hypothyroidism. syphilis has that same effect, if long untreated. is syphilis a brain disease? i don't think so. > > baron chat wrote: > >> you're going down the slippery slope of now trying to describe >> hypothyroid as a " brain disease " . >> > neurological damage i would consider brain disease - i have lost the > ability to write with a pen or paint among other things and i am > actively relearning. Adult cretinization due to badly treated or > untreated hypothyroid IS a brian disease and it may be incurable if > untreated for too long > > -- > Alison > http://www.alisonashwell.com > new work uploaded > http://www.artwanted/alisonashwell > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 > > In a message dated 10/19/2004 4:56:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, > 420@... writes: > >> >> is it your position that there are no empowered people in the world >> who >> have suffered and are currently suffering mood, brain, emotional >> disorders? >> > > no. that is not my position. > cindi then we both agree it is possible to be empowered despite having a disease, even one that affects your mood and brain and emotional functions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 i believe the nature of the disease we discussed here, was one that affected your mood, brain and emotional functions. you are trying to have it both ways. on one hand you state that it is impossible to be empowered if you have an illness that affects the brain. then on the other hand, you do not deny that there are empowered people with diseases that affect the brain. why not accept that it has to do with the individual, and that empowerment is a pro-active choice a person has to make? some people do, and they try to overcome their challenges. most people don't, and succumb to it. it's human nature. i have never tried to suggest that what happened to you wasn't a valid experience, but i don't believe it has to be everyone's experience, with no possibility of reconciliation, better communication within a family, and so forth. even if you argue that she has no control at all over her yelling and impatience, you could always argue that there are things she can do while she isn't yelling and impatient, to make her own life and their lives better and happier. meaning it isn't what she's doing when she's in a bad way that's important, but what she does between those outbursts that makes the difference. baron > > In a message dated 10/19/2004 5:11:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, > 420@... writes: > >> then we both agree it is possible to be empowered despite having a >> disease, even one that affects your mood and brain and emotional >> functions. >> > > depends upon the nature of the disease. > cindi > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 > > In a message dated 10/19/2004 5:00:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, > 420@... writes: > >> i have to repeat, again, that the original poster was aware of her >> behaviour. this wasn't a case of her being completely in the dark >> about what's going on. she feels her behaviour has changed and she >> doesn't like it. >> > > and she asked if this was part of thyroid disease...and many answered > yes. > cindi including me. i happened to also say it wasn't necessarily ALL her thyroid, and that it wasn't impossible to do something about communication now, which you then disagreed with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 baron chat wrote: >and hypothyroidism isn't. > > > > > you can't have it both ways- a disease that causes neurological damage is a 'brain disease ' . Not everyone gets neurological damage but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen or that neurological damage caused by hypoT is called 'neck disease' -- Alison http://www.alisonashwell.com new work uploaded http://www.artwanted/alisonashwell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 i've never heard of hypot being called a neck disease. also, how am i trying to have anything both ways? my stand is that hypothyroidism is not a brain disease and i stand by it. i'd like to be corrected if this isn't true, but i need medical fact, and not subjective interpretation. fyi, any disease that causes neurological damage is not a brain disease. a brain disease, is a disease or disorder of the brain. pituitary tumours are a brain disease. they also cause joint pains. do you consider pituitary tumours a joint disease? surely you don't consider hypothyroidism also a joint disease because my joints are affected. > > baron chat wrote: > >> and hypothyroidism isn't. >> >> >> >> >> > you can't have it both ways- a disease that causes neurological damage > is a 'brain disease ' . Not everyone gets neurological damage but that > doesn't mean it doesn't happen or that neurological damage caused by > hypoT is called 'neck disease' > > > -- > Alison > http://www.alisonashwell.com > new work uploaded > http://www.artwanted/alisonashwell > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 baron chat wrote: >thank you. and along the same lines that pms has caused murders yet >never been a defense in court, neither would hypothyroidism. > Well thankfully that opinion is not universal as severe PMS has been successfully used as a defense in the uk and other countries. And given adequate evidence there is no reason to believe that hypothyroid rage would not be a mitigating circumsatnce as well. http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/proceedings/16/Easteal2.pdf actually just found a case of hypothyroid psychois defense: *Myxedema psychosis--insanity defense in homicide.* http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=7\ 410326 & dopt=Abstract > > > > see also: *Hashimoto's Encephalopathy **A Neuroendocrine Disorder * http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/hashimotos-encephalopathy.htm -- Alison http://www.alisonashwell.com new work uploaded http://www.artwanted/alisonashwell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 In a message dated 10/19/2004 8:36:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, artisticgroom@... writes: > Ah what nice kiddies! Everyone's evening Armour must be kicking in! LOL > (Cough) but maybe with Baron it is a little smokier over there.... rofl...yea..that T3 peaked and i started loving everyone. Cindi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 I & my husbands never had problems with me that affected my marriages. Rather it was my ALL my husbands' mental illnesses & /or alcoholism & violence that destroyed the marriages. Me? Depression, aches, pains or whatever, I carried on as usual at my employment, caring for kids, myself, house, yards, cars, whatever. Re: is this part of thyroid problem? I can relate to this statement, because I became a real tyrant when I was first sick. Nothing anybody did, most especially my hubby or kids made me happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 T wrote: >Don't thank me yet! LOL Just cause it has never been a defense doesn't mean >I don't think it SHOULD be. > > > > > Severe PMS has been successfully used as a defense -- Alison http://www.alisonashwell.com new work uploaded http://www.artwanted/alisonashwell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 That was very well stated , as usual. Jen R. -- Re: Re: is this part of thyroid problem? Well, to my knowledge, PMS has never been a defense in a court of law, but I can tell you I would be willing to bet my ARMOUR that it has caused murders! In this same vein, yes, I do believe some hypothyroid people are capable of murder and violence that is not normally in their nature, but made to happen by the hypothyroid disease itself, and NO at that point, they do NOT have control over it & they feel backed into a corner and no options available to them. When they start to realize they HAVE options, they are coming back into the focus necessary to heal from this disease, and I think many of us fade in & out of that focus on a daily or even hourly basis. *Artistic Grooming * Hurricane, WV Fat cat? Diabetes? Listowner for overweight or hypothyroid cats http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hypokitties/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 baron chat wrote: >thank you. and along the same lines that pms has caused murders yet >never been a defense in court, neither would hypothyroidism. > Well thankfully that opinion is not universal as severe PMS has been successfully used as a defense in the uk and other countries. And given adequate evidence there is no reason to believe that hypothyroid rage would not be a mitigating circumsatnce as well. http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/proceedings/16/Easteal2.pdf actually just found a case of hypothyroid psychois defense: *Myxedema psychosis--insanity defense in homicide.* http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=7\ 410326 & dopt=Abstract > > see also: *Hashimoto's Encephalopathy **A Neuroendocrine Disorder * http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/hashimotos-encephalopathy.htm -- Alison http://www.alisonashwell.com new work uploaded http://www.artwanted/alisonashwell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 that blows me away. thank you for that link. i'll be interested to see if there were more of such cases, whether they succeeded or not. as in, how often is hypothyroid-induced psychosis used as a defense. > > baron chat wrote: > >> thank you. and along the same lines that pms has caused murders yet >> never been a defense in court, neither would hypothyroidism. >> > Well thankfully that opinion is not universal as severe PMS has been > successfully used as a defense in the uk and other countries. > And given adequate evidence there is no reason to believe that > hypothyroid rage would not be a mitigating circumsatnce as well. > > http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/proceedings/16/Easteal2.pdf > > actually just found a case of hypothyroid psychois defense: > > > *Myxedema psychosis--insanity defense in homicide.* > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi? > cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=7410326 & dopt=Abstract > >> >> >> >> > see also: > *Hashimoto's Encephalopathy > **A Neuroendocrine Disorder * > > http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/hashimotos-encephalopathy.htm > > -- > Alison > http://www.alisonashwell.com > new work uploaded > http://www.artwanted/alisonashwell > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 i believe YOU weren't able to make choices. i do not believe that EVERYONE ELSE is unable to make choices. i do not believe i was unable to make choices, no matter how much i was suffering. i believe anyone else can make choices no matter what. but i believe not everyone can, nor do i think everyone who can, does. > > In a message dated 10/19/2004 5:18:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, > 420@... writes: > >> i'm not angry at all--i'm just finding it difficult to get across to >> you that i was able to make choices where my behaviour was concerned, >> when you seem to insist that this was only possible because i didn't >> suffer hypothyroid as badly as you or some. >> > > I believe you when you say you were able to make choices. Now you > need to > believe me and anyone else when we say we were not able to. > cindi > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 nc2406@... wrote: >> >> > >same here, allison. in particular I wondered about andrea yates who killed >her little boys. > > Yes me too, I was thinking of her when i wrote that comment. There have been a few other women in similar circumstances -- Alison http://www.alisonashwell.com new work uploaded http://www.artwanted/alisonashwell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 hashimoto's is a disease of the auto-immune system. hypothyroidism is a disease of the thyroid. some people have also had their thyroids partly or completely removed due to hyperthyroid, or thyroid cancer. none of those are diseases of the brain. > > In a message dated 10/19/2004 5:18:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, > 420@... writes: > >> as for hypothyroid being a disease of the brain, you might believe it, >> but that doesn't make it true > > Then what is low thyroid a disease of? > Cindi > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 it affects a great many things, amongst those, brain function. that doesn't make it a brain disease, any more than it makes it a joint disease, a skin disease, a balding disorder, etc.. > > In a message dated 10/19/2004 5:22:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, > 420@... writes: > >> >> and hypothyroidism isn't. >> > > and hypothyroidism affects what? > cindi > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 >>dang...when we bet our Armour...it's serious stuff.<< And you can ask anyone that knows me, I NEVER lose a bet! I am not a gambler so when I BET, it is already a sure thing! LOL *Artistic Grooming * Hurricane, WV Fat cat? Diabetes? Listowner for overweight or hypothyroid cats http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hypokitties/ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.778 / Virus Database: 525 - Release Date: 10/15/2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 yes i know. i answered her question. you were arguing other things that weren't necessarily her question and i was responding to them. > > In a message dated 10/19/2004 5:25:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, > 420@... writes: > >> even if you argue that she has no control at all over her yelling and >> impatience, you could always argue that there are things she can do >> while she isn't yelling and impatient, to make her own life and their >> lives better and happier > > but that wasn't her question. > cindi > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.