Re: is this part of thyroid problem?

[Guest guest]

trust me, i have. i in fact, still suffer daily from it. it takes an

extra effort, and sometimes it's an inhuman effort, but my marriage is

the most important thing in my world, and so if i ever had to stretch

myself and reach in anything, this was going to be it.

i'm not trying to dismiss anyone who suffers this as someone who isn't

putting in the effort. like you said, you weren't aware and you

couldn't have been. the poster of the original question, however, IS

aware. she is aware that her moods have been bad, she's been impatient

at her husband and her children, and that she is screaming at them.

she wants to know if this is all because of her thyroid.

my reply to that was, and still is: yes, partly, as a person cannot

help but be irritable when they are sick and in pain. but it isn't all

because of the thyroid, and there's room for movement there.

suggesting that her thyroid disease is the ONLY reason she's screaming

at her family makes an unfair implication that the only way things in

that house are going to improve is if her thyroid gets restored. this

isn't true. there are things a person can help and things a person

can't. there are options and ways of coping with disease and stress

within a family and i will be the first to tell you that it's a

challenge but also one that's important.

the disease affects how you feel, and that can't be helped. how you

behave, as much as one is inclined to go a certain way because the

shape they're in predisposes that, can be helped.

best,

baron

>

> In a message dated 10/19/2004 2:03:46 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> 420@... writes:

>

>> communication problems have to do with poor communication--not poor

>> thyroid function.

>>

>

> baron,

> maybe you just haven't experienced this part of thyroid

> dysfunction...but for

> me...I didn't even know anything was wrong. thyroid disease can

> really sneak

> up on you and start changing you. and I was so affected by thyroid

> disease,

> that the good brain functioning just wasn't there. so there was no

> way i

> could communicate that I wasn't myself because I didn't even know how

> bad off i

> was. If I had, I certainly would have gotten myself to a doctor a

> whole lot

> sooner. But all I knew was that I was dead tired and I couldn't think

> right

> anymore and everything was just too much for me. Try to communicate?

> I couldn't

> even grasp the concept at the time.

>

> Luckily, I had a husband who loves me and stood by me...and luckily we

> have a

> strong marriage. I don't think I was capable of communication during

> the

> time before Armour. I probaby couldn't have even pronounced the word.

> Cindi

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

are you referring to me with the before armour/after armour thing?

because i don't think you're aware of the timeline here--armour had

nothing to do with this. in fact, i have been, for 2 years, on a

ridiculously low dose of armour--30mg. most of my marital stresses

came to a head about a year into this disease, i.e., 1 year after

armour.

armour sure didn't fix anything between us. that's an odd assumption

of yours to make.

baron

>

> In a message dated 10/19/2004 2:03:46 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> 420@... writes:

>

>> thyroid

>> disease didn't stop me from opening the channels and trying to be a

>> better communicator. i don't think communication in a relationship is

>> anything to take for granted

>

> And baron, I agree with you here. But i think we're talking about two

> different times...before Armour...and after Armour.

> Cindi

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

cindi, again, this is not the case with the original poster's question.

she is in fact quite aware of her behaviour and wanted to know if it

had anything to do with her thyroid disease. she has been impatient

and raising her voice. she doesn't have a problem with recollection,

nor is she so sick she doesn't even know what she's doing. it

literally is apples and oranges between your description of your

events, and hers. my stand is that she is aware of her behaviour and

thus can at least try to change it. i sure hope no one is suggesting

she can't stop screaming at her family and that she has to wait till

her thyroid disease improves and everything will be peachy keen again.

it has to start somewhere and now is as good a time as any.

b

> this is true. once I knew what was wrong, I could start working on it

> in

> partnership with my husband. but it's really hard when you're so sick

> you don't

> even know what you're doing - or even can remember from one day to the

> next

> what you might have said or done. my husband tells me things now that

> I said or

> did - and i have NO recollection of it. there's a period of about 6

> months

> that is just sorta a haze for me.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/19/2004 5:15:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,

420@... writes:

> cindi, maybe you missed it, but i stated clearly in response to you

> earlier that i WAS out of control. that means my behaviour was getting

> bad, i was moody, impatient, raised my voice.

>

I'm not talking about " behavior " that is out of control. I mean out of

control because of brain function not being normal.

cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/19/2004 5:15:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,

420@... writes:

> your position then, was to tell me that maybe that's a sign that i

> never was at that stage of hypothyroidism, because had i been in it, i

> would not have had the capability to do something about my behaviour.

> and that is simply untrue, and i disagree with it.

>

>

Well...then we disagree.

cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/19/2004 5:15:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,

420@... writes:

> then one would

> have to accept that violence and even murder would have been beyond

> their control and therefore they should not be held responsible for

> their actions.

>

one might have to wonder about that I suppose. although all that violence

and murder would have taken a lot of energy...and probably been beyond my

capabilties too.

Cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/19/2004 5:18:40 PM Eastern Standard Time,

420@... writes:

> i'm not angry at all--i'm just finding it difficult to get across to

> you that i was able to make choices where my behaviour was concerned,

> when you seem to insist that this was only possible because i didn't

> suffer hypothyroid as badly as you or some.

>

I believe you when you say you were able to make choices. Now you need to

believe me and anyone else when we say we were not able to.

cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/19/2004 5:18:40 PM Eastern Standard Time,

420@... writes:

> that this was only possible because i didn't

> suffer hypothyroid as badly as you or some.

>

I'm saying people are affected by low thyroid in very individual ways...and I

would imagine each person's experience is a bit different.

cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/19/2004 5:18:40 PM Eastern Standard Time,

420@... writes:

> as for hypothyroid being a disease of the brain, you might believe it,

> but that doesn't make it true

Then what is low thyroid a disease of?

Cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/19/2004 5:19:31 PM Eastern Standard Time,

alison.ashwell@... writes:

> In fact i have wondered about a few cases that have beeen on the news

>

>

same here, allison. in particular I wondered about andrea yates who killed

her little boys.

cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/19/2004 5:22:05 PM Eastern Standard Time,

420@... writes:

>

> and hypothyroidism isn't.

>

and hypothyroidism affects what?

cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/19/2004 5:25:39 PM Eastern Standard Time,

420@... writes:

> you are trying to have it both ways.

actually Baron..I'm not trying to have it any way. I'm just stating my

experience. Some others have done the same. there is some disagreement. some

of

us think hypo can make you out of control and is a brain disease. you don't.

no problem.

cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/19/2004 5:25:39 PM Eastern Standard Time,

420@... writes:

> even if you argue that she has no control at all over her yelling and

> impatience, you could always argue that there are things she can do

> while she isn't yelling and impatient, to make her own life and their

> lives better and happier

but that wasn't her question.

cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/19/2004 5:27:46 PM Eastern Standard Time,

420@... writes:

> and that it wasn't impossible to do something about

> communication now, which you then disagreed with

i'm not sure any more what your argument is. Of course one can do something

about communication...if they're not out of control because of hypo...only you

say if they're out of control...they can be in control. so we have a

fundamental difference of perception or something here. so why don't you let it

go?

I'm not going to agree with you because I know my own experience...and it

doesn't fit what you're saying. My husband would tell you the same. The person

that I became was not in control. Period. If you want to say I coulda

controlled behavior, feel free too. but you're wrong about me.

cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/19/2004 5:47:16 PM Eastern Standard Time,

artisticgroom@... writes:

> but I

> can tell you I would be willing to bet my ARMOUR that it has caused murders!

>

dang...when we bet our Armour...it's serious stuff.

cindi

[Guest guest]

let me ask you a hypothetical question:

at what point does a person take responsibility for their behaviour?

at what point are they in or out of control?

if a person in this situation struck their spouse or children--are they

responsible? if not, why? if yes, why? if a person supposedly does

not possess the coping resources to control themselves from screaming

and yelling at their family over, say, a messy living room, loud

playtime, not doing enough around the household, and can't be held

responsible for how they choose to communicate their feelings and

emotions, can they be expected to possess the coping resources to

control themselves from violence?

my message to her was that yes, the thyroid can affect it, but it isn't

the only reason. that was what you disagreed with in the beginning.

my entire point in this recent exchange, is that this is absolutely

something that's understandable but also workable. unless i've

misunderstood you, your point was that she can't control herself

because this isn't her, this is her disease. and while i'm aware and

understanding of the fact that your moods really do change, i don't

agree with the, " this is the disease " thing at the point she's

described, because yelling and screaming are the result of behaviour

when a person reaches the end point of their tolerance levels as a

result of their illness. but it isn't caused by their illness. an

alternative would be to leave the room. she's still capable of that.

awareness is absolutely the key to coping. i haven't suggested it's

easy--in fact i've mentioned it's a challenge. and at every point, one

should expect and give themselves allowance to fail. but i absolutely

disagree with and reject the notion that in this aspect you are out of

control if you are hypo and that it has anything to do with an " optimal

dose " of thyroid hormone. if i waited till i was on an optimal dose of

thyroid hormone before i started repairing my relationship with my

wife, i would be divorced.

baron

> baron,

> i guess i still feel that even being aware of it is not always enough

> to

> control if if you are hypo. one just doesn't have the coping resources

> always..and especially if they aren't on optimal doses of thyroid

> hormone.

>

> I mean I fully understand what you're saying. I really do. But i

> think we

> were just trying to let the original poster know that yes...your

> irritation

> and aggravation may well be related to your thyroid disease. Not to

> say that

> she didn't need to work on it...but just that the thyroid disease can

> have that

> affect.

> Cindi

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/19/2004 7:04:59 PM Eastern Standard Time,

420@... writes:

> i believe YOU weren't able to make choices. i do not believe that

> EVERYONE ELSE is unable to make choices.

then we are in agreement. finally.

cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/19/2004 7:04:59 PM Eastern Standard Time,

420@... writes:

> i do not believe i was unable

> to make choices, no matter how much i was suffering

just keep in mind that it wasn't because of " suffering " that i was unable to

make choices. I really didn't have that much pain. But one of my primary

areas affected by low thyroid was the brain...with psychiatric symptoms and then

lots of cognitive thinking stuff. So it wasn't because of suffering, but

because of my brain being affected by the disease.

cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/19/2004 7:06:16 PM Eastern Standard Time,

420@... writes:

> hashimoto's is a disease of the auto-immune system. hypothyroidism is a

> disease of the thyroid

i think this is just a matter of semantics. I agree with you that hypo would

be a disease of the thyroid...but I would also say that it causes your brain

to be diseased...as well as your whole body...and that everyone differs in

what parts of their body are diseased and to what degree.

cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/19/2004 7:08:48 PM Eastern Standard Time,

420@... writes:

> it affects a great many things, amongst those, brain function. that

> doesn't make it a brain disease, any more than it makes it a joint

> disease, a skin disease, a balding disorder, etc..

>

and again...I had skin disease because of the thyroid disease. I had carpel

tunnel disease because of the thyroid disease. I have IBS disease because of

the thyroid disease. I had brain disease because of the thyroid disease.

Cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/19/2004 7:09:46 PM Eastern Standard Time,

420@... writes:

> you were arguing other things

I'm not arguing, Baron...I was discussing.

cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/19/2004 7:15:36 PM Eastern Standard Time,

420@... writes:

> if you would prefer to believe that a person who has hypothyroidism has

> no control whatsoever, you're welcome to that belief and i won't try to

> stop you.

>

as you pointed out...not everyone...but some of us.

cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/19/2004 7:15:36 PM Eastern Standard Time,

420@... writes:

> you seem

> to think once a person is hypothyroid, they're excused from anything,

> even murder.

>

I didn't say that. And it's ridiculous to say that I did. I believe I

indicated it depended upon their brain function. Some people get so brain

diseased from hypo that they aren't in control. I also think hypo folks get a

bit

hyper sensitive.

cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/19/2004 7:58:58 PM Eastern Standard Time,

tayamni@... writes:

> Endocrine issues are very serious. They give or take balance, control, and

> reason

great post, roxanna..well said.

cindi

[Guest guest]

again, i disagree. i was diagnosed with hashimoto's, had a tsh of 39,

couldn't hardly walk without a cane, when i went in. before that

diagnosis, i was capable of controlling my actions and capable of

making choices even when i was sick. i always was. and i do believe i

qualify as being " at the worst point of hypo " .

i'm still walking on a cane today. i still have every symptom i had

when i went in that clinic that first time, and the only difference is

30mg of armour, which is nothing. and i'm still capable of making

choices.

i'm all aware of brain fog and mood disorders. i suffer that all the

time, still, and on top of that, live with bipolar illness which is a

GREAT mood disorder. thyroid-wise, i really am in no better shape than

i was 2 years ago, and am in fact worse. this argument of yours, that

if i was capable of making choices and therefore i was never at the

worst point of hypo, sounds like a justification for using the disease

as an excuse, because if anyone had an excuse for being that way, it

would be someone in my shoes, and i don't do that at all anymore. it's

also a little bit dismissive, in fact, to the pain and suffering i have

weathered and still put up with, further treatment pending.

b

>

> In a message dated 10/19/2004 4:09:51 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> 420@... writes:

>

>> then i decided it was really not going to help me feel any better and

>> would in fact help make EVERYONE feel worse.

>

> see...if you had the capability to actually decide something...then you

> weren't there. at the worst point of hypo....folks are incapable of

> good thinking.

> their brain is not functioning properly.

> cindi

>

>

>