Re: OT - Great Smokies Great Conspiracy

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/10/2003 1:39:41 PM Mountain Standard Time,

minnimall@... writes:

> GSDL has an impossibly narrow-minded policy of dealing *only* with

> practitioners. Example:

>

> Yeah GSDL has several problems as far I can see. I am a clinicinal

nutritionist (master's level) and they are the only lab that will not give me

lab

priveledges. I am more qualified and trained to read a CDSA for example than

most

any doctor and still they won't give me access. They also botch stuff up when I

even go through my doctor. Lab competetion will make them hopefully bend in

time. However, most tests are fortunately available through MetMetrix, Doctor's

Data, and others. I have suggested strongly that MetaMetrix include plasma

cysteine in their services, becuase that's pretty much only thing I need them

for

at this point.

My guess is that they will nottell you prices becuase most labs will give

the physician an account and the patient can pay doc. This way the doc can make

a margin on the tests. Not 100% sure this is case with GSDL, but it's agood

guess as to why they won't tell you pricing----because the clinican may decide

however high he/she wishes to make the price.

Doctors/clinicans need to make money so it's not black and white matter. But

for the pioneer incredibly well informed patient such as in this site it can

be frustrating. See if your dentist will allow you to call the lab acting as

his secretary. That might work.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/10/2003 3:00:41 PM Central Daylight Time,

Jerdeutsch@... writes:

> My guess is that they will nottell you prices becuase most labs will give

> the physician an account and the patient can pay doc. This way the doc can

> make

> a margin on the tests. Not 100% sure this is case with GSDL, but it's agood

> guess as to why they won't tell you pricing----because the clinican may

> decide

> however high he/she wishes to make the price.

that is correct. My physician passes on the cost to me without mark up.

There are 2 prices for GSDL, if you have them bill the insurance company, it's

higher than if you pay them directly before they do the lab work.

I think the Comp Detox Profile is $130 if you pay in advance.

Does anyone know if there is a test they offer that just does a plasma

cysteine blood test and nothing else? I feel I'm paying all this for all the

other

parts of this test when really all i want is the plasma cysteine checked.

[Guest guest]

You can do just plasma cysteine alone for 35.00 I assume it is doctor cost

because my doc is my friend, no mark up. I just did it last week so I know this

price is current.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/10/2003 4:35:25 PM Central Daylight Time,

Jerdeutsch@... writes:

> You can do just plasma cysteine alone for 35.00 I assume it is doctor cost

> because my doc is my friend, no mark up. I just did it last week so I know

> this

> price is current

which lab did you use?

thanks

claire

[Guest guest]

> In a message dated 7/10/2003 3:00:41 PM Central Daylight Time,

> Jerdeutsch@a... writes:

>

> > My guess is that they will nottell you prices becuase most labs

will give

> > the physician an account and the patient can pay doc. This way

the doc can

> > make

> > a margin on the tests. Not 100% sure this is case with GSDL, but

it's agood

> > guess as to why they won't tell you pricing----because the

clinican may

> > decide

> > however high he/she wishes to make the price.

>

> that is correct. My physician passes on the cost to me without

mark up.

> There are 2 prices for GSDL, if you have them bill the insurance

company, it's

> higher than if you pay them directly before they do the lab work.

>

> I think the Comp Detox Profile is $130 if you pay in advance.

>

> Does anyone know if there is a test they offer that just does a

plasma

> cysteine blood test and nothing else? I feel I'm paying all this

for all the other

> parts of this test when really all i want is the plasma cysteine

checked.

>

>

Thanks for all the info. everyone, and for letting me know the cost

of the GSDL test. I have another Q to add to the latter, and that is,

why doesn't Direct Labs charge the same (or only a bit more) as Great

Smokies if they're in competition? Because $169 is quite a bit more

than $130. ?? It doesn't make sense...

[Guest guest]

> Thanks for all the info. everyone, and for letting me know the cost

> of the GSDL test. I have another Q to add to the latter, and that is,

> why doesn't Direct Labs charge the same (or only a bit more) as Great

> Smokies if they're in competition? Because $169 is quite a bit more

> than $130. ?? It doesn't make sense...

You really don't understand, they are NOT in competition.

They offer different services.

Please read:

/files/HOW_TO_hair_test

(just the first part about what test and DLS etc).

In a nutshell, GSDL is a LAB. They run tests.

DLS is an intermediary. They sign forms, and send them to labs.

Now, don't you think DLS does something unique and cool?

Moria

[Guest guest]

The way I always understood it was that Direct Lab Services is like a

stand-in for a doctor-- if you don't have a doctor to get you these

tests, then you can use DLS to order them for you... is that correct,

Moria? In which case, yes, they should be charging more because part

of that cost is their fee.

W

--- In , " moriamerri " <moriam@e...> >

In a nutshell, GSDL is a LAB. They run tests.

> DLS is an intermediary. They sign forms, and send them to labs.

>

> Now, don't you think DLS does something unique and cool?

>

> Moria

[Guest guest]

> GSDL has an impossibly narrow-minded policy of dealing *only* with

> practitioners.

It is not impossibly narrow minded. It is required by federal law. If

they do otherwise the feds go shut them down as soon as they hear

about it and put everyone in prison. It is not narrow minded of them

to wish to avoid prison time by following the law.

Criticize the law, and lobby to change it, but don't blame labs for

following it even if you think it is evil and corrupt.

As to prices, most people are not emotionally mature enough to accept

that fact that all business that sell goods and services buy them at a

lower price than they resell them. Do you think your grocery store

pays the same $1.29 for a head of lettuce they charge you? However,

if the wholesale vendors advertized the wholesale price, the store

would get lots and lots of grief and be very mad at the wholesaler.

Andy . . . . . .

[Guest guest]

> I actually don't think it's cool for prices to be jacked up, just because a

> doc on a pedestal signs for it. Why should a signature cost $40 (difference

> between $130 & the $169 of GSDL).

So if you were in your own business offering a service, you would do it for

free? Is that what you're saying? Or do you mean you would let the customer

decide what he should pay you for your services and you just hope it covers the

operating costs.......

just another angle

[Guest guest]

--- In , " moriamerri " <moriam@e...>

wrote:

> You really don't understand, they are NOT in competition.

> They offer different services.

> Please read:

> /files/HOW_TO_hair_test

> (just the first part about what test and DLS etc).

>

> In a nutshell, GSDL is a LAB. They run tests.

> DLS is an intermediary. They sign forms, and send them to labs.

>

> Now, don't you think DLS does something unique and cool?

>

> Moria

Oh, yea, thanks. I had already read that URL, believe it or not, but

my mind can't seem to always retain facts. Like, I'm 1/2 way toward

Alzheimers.

I actually don't think it's cool for prices to be jacked up, just

because a doc on a pedestal signs for it. Why should a signature cost

$40 (difference between $130 & the $169 of GSDL). Apparently, we're

not in a democracy, because in a real democracy, competition lowers

prices. And, as you said, this " ain't competition " .

So I don't know about anyone else, but the way I view it is this:

The STEALTH-care system, is a grand MLM scheme, a wolf in sheeps

clothing, cloaked in the *guise* of legality. Price gouging may

be " legal " , but not morally legal.

[Guest guest]

> > You really don't understand, they are NOT in competition.

> > They offer different services.

> > Please read:

> > /files/HOW_TO_hair_test

> > (just the first part about what test and DLS etc).

> >

> > In a nutshell, GSDL is a LAB. They run tests.

> > DLS is an intermediary. They sign forms, and send them to labs.

> >

> > Now, don't you think DLS does something unique and cool?

> >

> > Moria

> Oh, yea, thanks. I had already read that URL, believe it or not, but

> my mind can't seem to always retain facts. Like, I'm 1/2 way toward

> Alzheimers.

I understand only too well!

> I actually don't think it's cool for prices to be jacked up, just

> because a doc on a pedestal signs for it. Why should a signature cost

> $40 (difference between $130 & the $169 of GSDL).

You want DLS to do this for you for FREE? They should have

people who answer the phone and have a doctor on staff to sign

forms and send your results to you and pay for their office

costs and phonebills and legal risks and lawyer fees

all for free? You are kidding, right? Or is it just that

you think it should be less than $40? and that you can decide

what is a reasonable markup?

What would that signature cost if you got it from any

other source that is available to you? [Or do you think

I should not be so crass as to speak of the PRICE of a

doctor's signature?] If you have a

better option, that's great. DLS is one way to do it.

Very useful for some people, not needed for others.

I have no problem at all with comparing prices, (in fact

I'm quite a " price shopper " at times) ---- but I am

pointing out what the relevant comparison is, and

objecting to comparing apples to oranges. Comparing

the price of DLS with DDI or GSDL is NOT a like comparison.

Comparing DDI to GSDL is--- they are both labs. Both

require (and MUST require) a form signed by a licensed

practitioner. DLS is offering a different service.

>Apparently, we're

> not in a democracy, because in a real democracy, competition lowers

> prices. And, as you said, this " ain't competition " .

Well, if you know of OTHER companies that will sign a hair

test form for you, without an office visit, just because

you call and say you want one, by all means, let us know.

There are a very very limited number of slightly similar things

I'm aware of, but really few and really limited.

Were there 18 companies offering a service like DLS's, now

that would be competition! And I would happily list several

of them in HOW_TO_hair_test, including prices.

Part of why I think DLS is " cool " is that it really is quite

unique. I don't think there really IS competition.

>

> So I don't know about anyone else, but the way I view it is this:

>

> The STEALTH-care system, is a grand MLM scheme, a wolf in sheeps

> clothing, cloaked in the *guise* of legality. Price gouging may

> be " legal " , but not morally legal.

Whether or not that is so, it is not the " fault " of either DDI

or DLS that testing is regulated in the way that it is.

They are each running businesses ***within the constraints***

of the situation.

Do I like the constraints? Do you like them? Do they like

them? That is a very different subject, and a complex one.

But I do accept, when discussing testing options, that the

situation has legal constraints.

I'm sorry if my post seems argumentative. I truly appreciate

the service DLS provides (although I've personally used it

only once so far)..... so I'm being picky about this.

I also appreciate that you are unhappy with the constraints.

Very good. Reasonable.

If anything, I only differ with you about the TARGET of this upset.

By the way, I do NOT refer to it as " the health care

system " when I am speaking accurately. It is " the disease

care system " . While there are many HEALTH care services

and practitioners out there, the overall system is clearly

about treating disease. I also consider HEALTH care to

be primarily, and almost by definition, what you do yourself:

what you eat, how you live, etc.

best wishes,

Moria

[Guest guest]

Moria, let me explain. It's true that Direct Lab is offering a

service. But IN A MANNER OF SPEAKING, they are benefitting (on the

backs of the ill populace) *because* of the fact that there is no

competition within the rotten system.

And, so - no, I wasn't joking when I said I don't think that's cool.

The *situation* isn't cool. After all, the final product is the

*same*. Why not get it direct from the " manufacturer " ? (except that

the " manufacturer " in this instance, isn't user-friendly... Actually,

I think that manufacturing, then distributing, then

wholesaling/retailing are also, in a way, MLM, if one cuts to the

core of issues.

The way the situation should change, is that there should be labs

*other* than Great Smokies, but who are objective, rather than biased

in favor of so-called professionals.

Speak of competition, to quote Andy (from your index):

The solution to this is to get rid of licensure so that the militant

ignorami are not protected from competition, and the sadistic med

schools don't get any more students, because people could then choose

to go someplace else and learn how to help others without the

emotional baggage currently present at the accredited schools.

--- In , " moriamerri " <moriam@e...>

wrote:

>

> > > You really don't understand, they are NOT in competition.

> > > They offer different services.

> > > Please read:

> > > Autism-

Mercury/files/HOW_TO_hair_test

> > > (just the first part about what test and DLS etc).

> > >

> > > In a nutshell, GSDL is a LAB. They run tests.

> > > DLS is an intermediary. They sign forms, and send them to labs.

> > >

> > > Now, don't you think DLS does something unique and cool?

> > >

> > > Moria

>

>

> > Oh, yea, thanks. I had already read that URL, believe it or not,

but

> > my mind can't seem to always retain facts. Like, I'm 1/2 way

toward

> > Alzheimers.

>

> I understand only too well!

>

> > I actually don't think it's cool for prices to be jacked up, just

> > because a doc on a pedestal signs for it. Why should a signature

cost

> > $40 (difference between $130 & the $169 of GSDL).

>

> You want DLS to do this for you for FREE? They should have

> people who answer the phone and have a doctor on staff to sign

> forms and send your results to you and pay for their office

> costs and phonebills and legal risks and lawyer fees

> all for free? You are kidding, right? Or is it just that

> you think it should be less than $40? and that you can decide

> what is a reasonable markup?

>

> What would that signature cost if you got it from any

> other source that is available to you? [Or do you think

> I should not be so crass as to speak of the PRICE of a

> doctor's signature?] If you have a

> better option, that's great. DLS is one way to do it.

> Very useful for some people, not needed for others.

>

> I have no problem at all with comparing prices, (in fact

> I'm quite a " price shopper " at times) ---- but I am

> pointing out what the relevant comparison is, and

> objecting to comparing apples to oranges. Comparing

> the price of DLS with DDI or GSDL is NOT a like comparison.

> Comparing DDI to GSDL is--- they are both labs. Both

> require (and MUST require) a form signed by a licensed

> practitioner. DLS is offering a different service.

>

> >Apparently, we're

> > not in a democracy, because in a real democracy, competition

lowers

> > prices. And, as you said, this " ain't competition " .

>

> Well, if you know of OTHER companies that will sign a hair

> test form for you, without an office visit, just because

> you call and say you want one, by all means, let us know.

> There are a very very limited number of slightly similar things

> I'm aware of, but really few and really limited.

>

> Were there 18 companies offering a service like DLS's, now

> that would be competition! And I would happily list several

> of them in HOW_TO_hair_test, including prices.

>

> Part of why I think DLS is " cool " is that it really is quite

> unique. I don't think there really IS competition.

>

> >

> > So I don't know about anyone else, but the way I view it is this:

> >

> > The STEALTH-care system, is a grand MLM scheme, a wolf in sheeps

> > clothing, cloaked in the *guise* of legality. Price gouging may

> > be " legal " , but not morally legal.

>

> Whether or not that is so, it is not the " fault " of either DDI

> or DLS that testing is regulated in the way that it is.

> They are each running businesses ***within the constraints***

> of the situation.

>

> Do I like the constraints? Do you like them? Do they like

> them? That is a very different subject, and a complex one.

>

> But I do accept, when discussing testing options, that the

> situation has legal constraints.

>

> I'm sorry if my post seems argumentative. I truly appreciate

> the service DLS provides (although I've personally used it

> only once so far)..... so I'm being picky about this.

>

> I also appreciate that you are unhappy with the constraints.

> Very good. Reasonable.

>

> If anything, I only differ with you about the TARGET of this upset.

>

> By the way, I do NOT refer to it as " the health care

> system " when I am speaking accurately. It is " the disease

> care system " . While there are many HEALTH care services

> and practitioners out there, the overall system is clearly

> about treating disease. I also consider HEALTH care to

> be primarily, and almost by definition, what you do yourself:

> what you eat, how you live, etc.

>

>

> best wishes,

> Moria