RE: Re: It must be a plot.

[Guest guest]

Poor you. I can relate and never fully expect to get

this yeast thing under control but I keep looking. Now

I need to know where I can get the paracasei. If I

ever find a way I will let you know.

A doctor I respect a lot once wrote something in an

online support group that indicated if one used

Culturelle insertion into the vagina it would help the

yeast. Now I didn't know that there was actually a

vaginal capsule besides that and probably he didn't

know. Before I read this yesterday I started using the

regular Culturelle with lactobacillus by mouth and in

the vagina. So if I destroy the " facilities " with it I

will also let you know.

I am still mad that there is a probiotic out there

somewhere floating around in the world that supposedly

can stop (I think) intestinal staph, vaginal yeast,

and perhaps other intestinal bacterial overgrowth

syndromes. The fact that it seems to be scrubbed from

the internet makes me very suspicious that they (you

know--the " Man " , the Medical System)don't want it in

the US but I am a little paranoid sometimes. ;o) (I am

a lot right though sometimes) ;O)

Arline

--- mojo060582 wrote:

> Arline: I want in on that! I've had a vaginal

> yeast infection for a

> couple of weeks now and I'm having trouble getting

> rid of it because I

> am on ABX for Lyme. My systemic yeast is in line

> (Thank God) - I just

> got my bloodwork done.

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[Guest guest]

Maybe you could go to a compounding pharmacy and get it made up into a capsule

that could be inserted. That stuff already comes in capsules to be swallowed

and is available at various U.S sources. It is just not labeled to be used

vaginally. If they can do it with amitriptyline, Ketoprfen, Ketamine,

Lidocaine, atropine etc. they should be able to do it with the ingredients in

Culturelle.

Ora

On Thu, 5 Jul 2007 03:28:44 -0700 (PDT), BABB

wrote:

>I am still mad that there is a probiotic out there

>somewhere floating around in the world that supposedly

>can stop (I think) intestinal staph, vaginal yeast,

>and perhaps other intestinal bacterial overgrowth

>syndromes. The fact that it seems to be scrubbed from

>the internet makes me very suspicious that they (you

>know--the " Man " , the Medical System)don't want it in

>the US but I am a little paranoid sometimes. ;o) (I am

>a lot right though sometimes) ;O)

>

>Arline

[Guest guest]

Hi Ora,

I thought of that but I have no belief that I could

enlist any pharmacist I know to do that. It occurred

to me that our leader could enlist the aid of Pete or

somebody but she likely has little motivation to go

out on this limb. (can't blame her for that--;o)(Hi

Dee)

Most of the pharmas I know are slightly psychiatric

and power mad in my opinion and I wouldn't even try.

But it is a good idea.

I wonder if this is why the AMA or whoever it is that

is trying to do away with recompounding medicines in

the law. They don't want any cures out there other

than those they sell at unreasonable prices?

Cynicus

(Arline)

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[Guest guest]

Well, I am interested in getting a copy of Trudeau's book about " What

the doctors don't want you to know " ...love, ml if it looks like a duck and

quacks like a duck!! LOL

<<<<,

I wonder if this is why the AMA or whoever it is that

is trying to do away with recompounding medicines in

the law. They don't want any cures out there other

than those they sell at unreasonable prices?

Cynicus

(Arline)>>>>>>>>>..

[Guest guest]

HI Ar..

Love your new handle ''Cynicus'' *chuckle* (being a cynic is not a bad word) and I agree with others, NO you are not paranoid at all. I recently heard 3 criteria for Paranoia (not speaking here psychiatrically of a mental disease.)

1. It's a secret which may be true hidden from public knowledge

2. It's shared with another, and then

3. Persecuted for ones beliefs or the knowledge thereof by those behind the secret.

Quote:

"Sometimes paranoia's just having all the facts.'' ~ S. Burroughs~

As far as contacting Pete for more information on those ingredients or if he could compound something? I would if it concerned me and I was interested. You betcha. It's a toll free call and well worth asking about, at least it's worth a discussion. I would if I had the time but anyone who's interested in that could do it.

When determined, nothing stops us eh?

Hugs

Dee~

[Guest guest]

I have spent some time researching this product and have determined that it is

sold in the United States as Culturelle GC and is widely available in capsules.

I don't know why you couldn't just insert a capsule without all the

paraphernalia involved in the VC capsules.

http://www.culturelle.com/questions.html#anchor1

http://www.culturelle.com/wheretobuy.html

Ora

[Guest guest]

HI Ora...

Great digging again... thank you!

Guess I'm a bit confused here?? (wouldn't be the first time *chuckle*)

The Culturelle you mentioned (and others) has the probiotic for the 'gut' with the Lactobacillus GG (and they say none better) but it's not the one I've seen recommended or needed for the vaginal health. (The one that said it was available in Austria that Arline sent and what I thought she was asking about?)

The two links (one Ar sent) and the other from medscape.

http://www.springerlink.com/content/y6u462001706t231/ and

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/470468_4

Both (to me) indicated for vaginal health... ''clinical efficacy 'only exists' for Lactobacillus rhamnosus GR-1 and Lactobacillus reuteri B-54 and RC-14''

Medscape too says: Studies have shown that daily 'oral' intake of L rhamnosus GR-1 and L fermentum RC-14 can modify the vaginal flora.... In a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled study of 64 healthy women, daily intake of L rhamnosus GR-1 and L fermentum RC-14 <-- (again same two,) resulted in significantly less yeast and fewer coliforms in the vagina.[15]

So how does the Culterelle with the Lactobacillis GG strain fit in for vaginal health? See my confusion? Unless one means it for overall health of course. But glad to know the Culturelle is available and apparently widely for those with gut problems. I think I'd be asking if the other strains could be compounded if I wanted it for vaginal health. BUT..... I could be confused here as I said no doubt about it.

Dee~

----- Original Message ----- From: taurusrc@...

I have spent some time researching this product and have determined that it issold in the United States as Culturelle GC and is widely available in capsules.I don't know why you couldn't just insert a capsule without all theparaphernalia involved in the VC capsules. http://www.culturelle.com/questions.html#anchor1http://www.culturelle.com/wheretobuy.html Ora

[Guest guest]

Ora, you are so darn smart!!! My smart husband said we

can't determine that paracasei and lactobacillus casei

is the same thing and said chemical terms are not like

" paramilitary " etc.,I was just sharing to him about

this and how clever I thought you were.--Sorry I

bothered, I am with you!!!! He thinks he is so clever!

heh heh heh! I think you are right. And I guess that

is why the doc I mentioned wrote that one could use

the Culturelle in the vagina. If he didn't know, he

wouldn't have said that, although that isn't exactly

his field.

Para means alternative or substitute. Casei is a

lactobacillus. Lactobacillus casei = paracasei, I'll

betcha.

Is that the way you determine the thing?

Arline

--- taurusrc@... wrote:

> I have spent some time researching this product and

> have determined that it is

> sold in the United States as Culturelle GC and is

> widely available in capsules.

> I don't know why you couldn't just insert a capsule

> without all the

> paraphernalia involved in the VC capsules.

>

> http://www.culturelle.com/questions.html#anchor1

> http://www.culturelle.com/wheretobuy.html

>

> Ora

>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

Thanks Dee, for volunteering Pete. (I am much too

shy). Heh!

I am only kidding but it is really nice to have him in

the circle of things if we need him. I think ORa has

figured it out.

Arline

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[Guest guest]

Dee,

When I sent that link I also mentioned how confused I

was and how the product appeared perhaps to be two

different things.

I was interested in finding out how to buy the

Culturelle VC (vaginal cap) in the US and couldn't

find much information about it at all let alone where

to get it.

I think Ora has figured it out. The Culturelle for

both the gut and the vagina appear to be the same

thing although in different words. It is true that it

isn't advertised in the US for a vaginal med and I

suppose there are many legal, (meaning stepping on

somebody's patents or selling something for a med

that should be a prescription which they have no

intention of doing since it is not American Pharma

produced, or any number of reasons that I don't know.

You can be assured that it is about money for big

pharma and some law or rule about it being a vaginal

med instead of natural substance to be taken in the

mouth for the benefit of the gut. I hope the pharma

cops aren't reading this and send their big attorneys

out to take it off the market before I am able to get

a lifetime supply of it after I see that it helps.

Heh!

I told you it must be a plot. Several probably.

Arline

>

> The two links (one Ar sent) and the other from

> medscape.

>

http://www.springerlink.com/content/y6u462001706t231/

> and

> http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/470468_4

>

> Both (to me) indicated for vaginal health...

> ''clinical efficacy 'only exists' for Lactobacillus

> rhamnosus GR-1 and Lactobacillus reuteri B-54 and

> RC-14''

>

> Medscape too says: Studies have shown that daily

> 'oral' intake of L rhamnosus GR-1 and L fermentum

> RC-14 can modify the vaginal flora.... In a

> randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled study

> of 64 healthy women, daily intake of L rhamnosus

> GR-1 and L fermentum RC-14 <-- (again same two,)

> resulted in significantly less yeast and fewer

> coliforms in the vagina.[15]

>

> So how does the Culterelle with the Lactobacillis GG

> strain fit in for vaginal health? See my confusion?

> Unless one means it for overall health of course.

> But glad to know the Culturelle is available and

> apparently widely for those with gut problems. I

> think I'd be asking if the other strains could be

> compounded if I wanted it for vaginal health.

> BUT..... I could be confused here as I said no doubt

> about it.

>

> Dee~

>

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: taurusrc@...

> I have spent some time researching this product and

> have determined that it is

> sold in the United States as Culturelle GC and is

> widely available in capsules.

> I don't know why you couldn't just insert a capsule

> without all the

> paraphernalia involved in the VC capsules.

>

> http://www.culturelle.com/questions.html#anchor1

> http://www.culturelle.com/wheretobuy.html

>

> Ora

>

>

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[Guest guest]

And the old fashioned definition of PATRIOTISM is being a responsible parent to your country!! off topic...but kinda relevant to the holiday aura !! hugs, ML who is celebrating her 17th wedding anniversary today! .

<<<<<<<< HI Ar..

Love your new handle ''Cynicus'' *chuckle* (being a cynic is not a bad word) and I agree with others, NO you are not paranoid at all. I recently heard 3 criteria for Paranoia (not speaking here psychiatrically of a mental disease.)

1. It's a secret which may be true hidden from public knowledge

2. It's shared with another, and then

3. Persecuted for ones beliefs or the knowledge thereof by those behind the secret. >>>>>>>>>>>.

[Guest guest]

You really got my curiosity going so I looked up the patent (4,839,281) and it

is for a strain 53103 and I looked up that and found a pdf document at

http://ijs.sgmjournals.org/cgi/reprint/50/2/471.pdf

That document lists the various strains and their origins.

My activity makes me wonder whether it is actually paracasei or " Lactobacillus

rhamnosus ATCC 53103 Human " (from the pdf document).

The document at http://home.intekom.com/pharm/pharmady/culturel.html states that

it contains paracasei but their patent states that it covers a rhamnosus strain.

So who knows? I am through looking because I am getting more and more confused.

Ora

[Guest guest]

Lou,

I wouldn't recommend getting the book. He's a quack.

One reason why they may try to get rid of compounding medication

is because of the fact that those medications haven't gone thru

the proper channels to show they are safe. But there will be a

lot of people who will vocalize about why it's important. It

will be up to the FDA as to whether laws are tightened in

regards to the compound medication issue to make sure they are

safe.

Kristy

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[Guest guest]

HI Lou,

Happy 17th anniversary hon.

Many more to come and may each

be better than the last. Dee~

[Guest guest]

Thank YOU! Dee. love, ML

<<<< HI Lou,

Happy 17th anniversary hon.

Many more to come and may each

be better than the last. Dee~ >>>>>>

[Guest guest]

Ar said: <The Culturelle for both the gut and the vagina appear to be the samething although in different words.>

I guess I still don't get it Ar.

Even if they use the letters Culturelle VC (V standing for the vaginal use) what's out there still isn't it still the correct 'strain' or type of bacteria that's used for the vagina from what I gather, it states the Culturelle VC strain contains Lactobacillus acidophilus and Lactobacillus paracasei.

To me they're totally different strains of probiotics used for different conditions. Just like those 'dairy-related' strains of lactobacilli, like L. acidophilus and L. delbrueckii bulgaricus, and why those won't work either in the vagina.

Dr. Nyirjesy in a cont. med. ed class states that as well and listen to what he says here about what he 'doesn't' use.

" I prefer not to use clindamycin cream because it may weaken latex condoms and diaphragms. Furthermore, the Sanford Guide to Antimicrobial Therapy 2002 (www.sanfordguide.com) indicates that clindamycin actually kills lactobacilli in addition to the bacteria associated with BV. This is important since lactobacilli are what we are hoping to recolonize during the treatment period."

Here are 2 other physician comments from that same Med Ed. class:

Ms. Bosarge: Many people think that eating or douching with yogurt or buttermilk will help treat BV. While the goal of BV therapy is to restore lactobacilli in the vagina, the lactobacilli in yogurt is not the same strain that is found in the vagina. Furthermore, yogurt may be contaminated with Escherichia coli and other harmful bacteria.

Mr. : Some women try lactobacilli capsules and powders, which are sold in health food stores. Again, these are 'not' the hydrogen peroxide­ producing lactobacilli that are found in the vagina.

So at least what 'I'm' getting is that it has to do with the strains of lactobacilli the vagina needs and 'I' don't see that as the ones in the Culturelle or even the Culturelle VC one.

Just as a side note, the one in the Culturelle, (Lactobacillus GG ) when given to infants with Atopic dermatitis and cow's milk allergy, they say can significantly reduce the severity of the AD. So if someone has that (atopic dermatitis, which usually is a genetic propensity or disposition) on the vulva I can see where it might help taking it systemically eh?.

http://www.aaaai.org/aadmc/currentliterature/selectedarticles/2004archive/lactobacillus_dermatitis.html

As to the Paracasei... that's it's name in full ''I thought''? (Not the para- casei... meaning beside or part of as in para-psychology, or para-military.)

"The probiotic, Lactobacillus paracasei <click strain ST11 is used in acute childhood nonrotavirus-induced diarrhea by the World Health Organization."

Another clip about the L paracasei (L. always stands for lactobacillus).

By the way at this site, are also many different lactobacilli listed for the 'gut' if interested.

<clip from it>

Lactobacillus paracasei

These lactic acid bacteria (LAB) are both acid and bile resistant, and therefore, more likely to survive the journey from the mouth through the gastrointestinal tract and into the intestines. Recent research shows L. paracasei effective in the prevention and treatment of certain types of diarrhea. Additional studies have focused on L. paracasei's ability to alter the activity of intestinal microflora, modulate the immune system and perhaps reduce the risk of some cancers.

another on the Paracasei at:

http://www.uaslabs.com/sections/raw_materials.php?material_id=9

Also at http://www.cgstock.com/candida/lgg.html You'll see the Lactobacillus GG(in the Culturelle) IS good for systemic yeast, (again it's the gut) and I did see where it's in the Dannon yogurt. (for gut too). (doensn't Dusty take that?)

Seems a lot is out there for 'gut' & systemic yeast but not those strains for the vagina L rhamnosus GR-1 and L fermentum RC-14, supposedly they're still under research and development.

Am I making any sense at all?

I quit, gimmie my ball I'm going home! ha ha LOL

Dee~

PS..... *grin*

Ora I just caught your last post before I hit 'send' on this...

ME too getting more and more confused.

Hugs

[Guest guest]

One last one I promise.. as this plot is getting thicker and thicker, LOL

Conclusion of Reids article and the 2 strains that work for the urogenital area.

(I found out I do have it in full in my chaos, LOL it's at:

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/73/2/437S#R60

titled:

Probiotic agents to protect the urogenital tract against infection

''The concept of treating and preventing urogenital infection by instillating probiotic organisms has great appeal to patients and caregivers.

The ability to administer L. rhamnosus GR-1 and L. fermentum RC-14, which colonize the intestine and vagina, by mouth to help restore and maintain urogenital health (118) provides a major step in the right direction for patients as it potentially allows for the self administration of therapy. However, for this approach to be successful, proper selection of strains, proof of concept, and efficacy must accompany products used in patients.''

Dee

[Guest guest]

Dee,

I don't know the answers of course but as I recall

there was an introduction in one of the articles that

points out that vaginal infections originate from the

condition of the intestinal flora and the paracasei

and lactic acid are able to survive to go through the

intestinal tract and they do prevent infection and

thrush by stopping it in the intestines before it

migrates to the vagina.

But also apparently somewhere???one can buy the

Culturelle VC to be inserted into the vagina to stop

bacterial and yeast infections.

As far as what the doc said about only certain

lactobacillus being fit and effective to heal the

vagina--all I can say is maybe there are others.

Now whether or not they are the same ratio of

ingredients or the same exact thing as the Culturelle

by mouth I haven't a clue. I would like to know but

whatever--I intend to continue to use it orally for

the intestines and vaginally for the vagina (obviously

;O) I will be able to tell fairly quickly if it is

helpful as I almost constantly have candida.

Our medical system has ignored homeopathic meds

forever and certainly I have never had a doc suggest

that I take any probiotics. It isn't their thing at

all at the present time. That doesn't mean that it

isn't effective. They have refused forever to even

look at food or the gut as being the cause of various

diseases or conditions. So, whatever they say about it

I will take with a large grain of salt and will

experiment myself in this case especially since I once

read about it written by a respected doctor (in my

mind very respected).

Anyway I think this is pretty interesting and

appreciate yours and Ora's input. It could be that the

paracasei is really the rhamnosis as Ora's one

impression seemed to say. Too confusing. Don't know

enough. But I have tried everything and as long as the

pipes don't rust, I guess I might find out something.

LOL

Arline

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[Guest guest]

> I wouldn't recommend getting the book. He's a

> quack.

???? So were Socrates and Semmelweiss.

>

> One reason why they may try to get rid of

> compounding medication

> is because of the fact that those medications

> haven't gone thru

> the proper channels to show they are safe.

The problem is that many things will never go through

the proper channels because the pharmaceutical

companies don't own the patents and refuse to support

the med and they can't control or exploit or totally

have the profits. They will use the old excuse that it

hasn't gone through the proper channels (and never

will).

> there will be a

> lot of people who will vocalize about why it's

> important. It

> will be up to the FDA as to whether laws are

> tightened in

> regards to the compound medication issue to make

> sure they are

> safe.

Since the FDA is totally controlled by lobbyists and

paid members of the pharmaceuticals, I believe, we

should be very careful before we put out lives and

beliefs totally in their hands as those hands are

mostly involved in profit.

_

Arline

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[Guest guest]

--- DeeTroll wrote:

> HI Ora and Ar,

>

> Love this plot as it gets thicker, *chuckle* it's

> getting the dust out of these cobwebs (I think) or

> maybe those neurons are getting all tangled up. LOL

> (more like it)

...... I could be confused here as I said no doubt

about it.

Can't imagine why you might be confused? The rest of

us surely aren't. (hah!!!)

You just have too many things already in your brain.

Heh!

Arline ;O)

PS

I am sticking with Culturelle LOL

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[Guest guest]

I agree with you Dee, that the Fem-Dophilus specifically contains the two

effective strains however the Culturelle VC contains two non-specific strains.

I would go with the Fem-Dophilus. But I would try taking it orally as well as

vaginally to see if it works that way.

Ora

[Guest guest]

I see the Fem-Dophilus here http://www.jarrow.com/product-391 and it 'IS' the 2 strains of bacteria (Lactobacillus rhamnosus GR-1â„¢ and Lactobacillus reuteri RC-14) the two that have been suggested specifically for vag. health.

Though the Fem-Dophilus is meant to be taken orally since it mentions ''the proprietary polysaccharide matrix that protects the bacteria from stomach acid and enhances the survival of these species as they reach

I can add something to this discussion.. . .

There's been quite a bit of talk in the past about the use of Femdophilus vaginally on the Yahoo IC Puzzle group, which i belong. With permission from the moderator i'm posting a message

from Martha , the director of the STAR project, which is involved with identifying possible bacterial components of interstitial cystitis. Here's what she had to say:

Fem-Dophilus is a new probiotic that just became available on the market. It was developed over a 20 year period by Drs. Gregor Reid and Bruce. It consists of two strains of Lactobacilli, GR-1 and RC-14, and taken as an oral supplement will colonize and protect the vaginal tract. The contents of the capsule are protected from stomach acid in order to reach the intestinal tract.

Many are aware that probiotics support the health of the gastrointestinal tract, but it is less well-known that special strains of probiotic bacteria active in the digestive tract also contribute to vaginal health. Many of the strains of bacteria that cause UTIs first colonize the vagina. Research with Fem-Dophilus has shown that oral use of these two strains significantly alters the vaginal flora, showing a reduction in less desirable flora and an increase in ³friendly² lactobacilli.

One capsule a day is recommended as a support for proper vaginal flora balance. Under conditions known to unfavorably influence vaginal flora balance, such as the use of antibiotics, 2 capsules per day may be required.

The well-known company, Jarrow Formulas, manufactures Fem-Dophilus and it can be purchased through http://Provitaminas.com

Femdophilus (taken orally) has been wonderful for resolving her vaginal yeast problems.

She stresses that, if it's used vaginally, it's important to take it out of the capsules first and mix in with some kind

of gel to insert, since the capsule does not dissolve well vaginally.

Hope this helps move the plot along a little. . . .

Hollis

[Guest guest]

>

> Martha , who has IC herself, uses Femdophilus

> both orally and

> vaginally, after checking with the guy

> who developed the strains, Gregor Reid.

>

> The moderator of the IC Puzzle group, who was

> irradiated as a sinus treatment

> when she was young, has a serious

> problem with vaginal and systemic yeast and found

> that, unlike really

> anything else she's used over the years, the

> Femdophilus (taken orally) has been wonderful for

> resolving her vaginal yeast

> problems.

> </HTML>

>

Thanks for the imput, Hollis. Glad to know somebody

else is doing it and it is interesting that the makers

of Femdophilis said it was okay.

Arline

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[Guest guest]

Hmmmmm A couple of years ago, I wrote the list that I started using Danactive probiotic drink (contains L. casei) and it became a turning point in stopping my V pain. I didn't start drinking it for my V area, I started because it claimed to help us be healthier and I was on a quest to follow all things healthy in order to feel better, think better so that I could get the V pain under control. THe side benefit was that it controlled the last of the V pain that I was experiencing.For whatever reason, for my body - it seems to quell the little yeast buggers and keeps me happy and healthy in that nether region. I drink it every day.BABB wrote: > > Martha , who has IC herself, uses Femdophilus> both orally and > vaginally,

after checking with the guy> who developed the strains, Gregor Reid. > > The moderator of the IC Puzzle group, who was> irradiated as a sinus treatment > when she was young, has a serious> problem with vaginal and systemic yeast and found> that, unlike really > anything else she's used over the years, the> Femdophilus (taken orally) has been wonderful for> resolving her vaginal yeast > problems.> > Thanks for the imput, Hollis. Glad to know somebodyelse is doing it and it is interesting that the makers of Femdophilis said it was okay.Arline ____________________________________________________________________________________Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 **IF REPLYING TO THIS POST, PLEASE REMOVE

ORIGINAL POST, Thanks for your cooperation! *****

[Guest guest]

Hi,

A lot of people praise the Danactive. I cannot eat

dairy at all and in fact would really like to eat

kefir which has some similar effects so they say. If I

eat it my insides feel on fire and probably are.

I was especially looking for a probiotic that helped

to control yeast that would survive the intestinal

tract and also could be used intravaginally. I am

taking Culturelle that way and it has been a week with

no yeast symptoms which is a miracle. Apparently

Femdopholis (can't spell today) can be used that way

also, according to what others have said.

All I know is that if this works it is a miracle as I

have had yeast infections for over thirty years and it

has always been a nightmare to make sure I was able to

have antifungals from physicians who seemed to have no

belief or knowledge about the subject.

Glad that you have found some answers.

Arline

--- Anonymous wrote:

> Hmmmmm A couple of years ago, I wrote the list

> that I started using Danactive probiotic drink

> (contains L. casei) and it became a turning point in

> stopping my V pain. I didn't start drinking it for

> my V area, I started because it claimed to help us

> be healthier and I was on a quest to follow all

> things healthy in order to feel better, think better

> so that I could get the V pain under control. THe

> side benefit was that it controlled the last of the

> V pain that I was experiencing.

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