Crime and Punishment

[Guest guest]

I don't see why all the bleeding hearts are against longer prison sentences.

In my State you don't go to prison for minor crimes. Under an ounce of

marijuana is simply $100 fine. Shoplifters get fines and probation. A gram

of cocaine might get you a few days in jail but not prison. Dealing large

quantities of drugs will get you prison time. Now if you committ murder,

rape or armed robbery your first offense you will go to prison in my State

for a long time. Grand Larceny in my state if it is your first offense you

will probably get a fine and probation. THe only people I have ever heard of

or read about who have gone to prison for minor crimes in my state is if they

were repeat offenders. Hell Omaha cops won't even take you in for fighting

unless you were beating on a woman or old person or unless someone is

injured. I have never heard of someone in my state getting life in prison

or even 15 years for a minor crime. Most people don't even go to jail for

DWI's unless they kill someone. You just get your license suspended and a

fine. If it is your third offense it is a felony but even then they only

give you like 90-120 days in jail and long probation. What would you

bleeding hearts do ??? Let murderers get out of jail in like 2 years with a

full ride scholarship? Someone with a truckload of cocaine get off with

probation???

[Guest guest]

We are against the sentencing madness because it's hugely expensive and simply doesn't work to deter crime. Even educated prison professionals will tell you that. No data support the madness of sentencing we have now and there is the beginning of movement to restore sanity to our penology. Our present system is racist at its core and capitalized on by the private prison companies who are profiting from it....and run by people who actually white collar criminals themselves. Just look at the mess at CCA, by far the largest such company in the country.

[Guest guest]

Well I am pro-death penalty for murder. I am for long prison sentences for

violent criminals. From what I have seen in my state people who get caught

with a truck load of cocaine already usually have an extensive criminal

record. The sentencing is usually based on their record. I think 10 years

in prison. If you were caught dealing drugs in my state and you had a clean

record and it was your first offense and the quantity wasn't huge you very

well could get probation. But hell in my state if you shoplift like 20 times

they will send you to prison. A black guy in my state got shot and killed

by the cops. They are making him out to be a martyr and a saint. The cop

probably shouldn't have killed him( which I think was an accident by a scared

cop), but the black guy had been to jail like 15 times since he was 15 years

old. He just got out of jail and was in the process of stealing a car

leading the cops on a high speed chase. In my experience and talking to

friends who are cops and attorneys, sentencing has a lot to do with your

previous record. If you are stupid enough to steal or get minor drug charges

over and over in my opinion you deserve to go to prison. I think Marijuana

should possibly be legal but hard drugs should not. I agree with the current

system in my state.

[Guest guest]

Tommy,

I have also read that opium derivatives are being denied to patients with

severe chronic pain, even those who are terminally ill in hospices,

hospitals, and nursing homes because patients may get 'hooked' on them. This

is sometimes done by nurses against doctors orders in hospitals (one hospital

in particular was cited..unfortunately, I don't have the url right now).

You are right. Opium derivatives are far safer than many of the drugs

currently being 'shoved' down peoples throats...including children's.

Thanks!

> Obviously you are a more loyal subject of the pharmocracy in which we

> live than I am. I believe that self medication is a natural human

> right. In the U.S. today people are persecuted and imprisoned for

> possing a drug as natural as opium which was considered a miracle

> drug for centuries. It is simply the dried juice of the poppy. Is

> it a hard drug. Also in the U.S. today the government shoves some of

> the most toxic drugs ever formulated down the throats of people. Is

> Haldol a hard drug? Is ritalin a hard drug?

[Guest guest]

A black drug gang got busted for drugs in my town and I am glad they are in

federal prison. In addition to dealing crack cocaine they were responsible for

drive by shootings and murder. As far as the prison system being racist, I

don't believe it. I work at my cities trauma center and most of the shooting

victims are black as are most of the shooters. Should we have a program of

affirmative action for our prison system? SHould we convince more white

teenagers it is a good idea to shoot other white teenagers in drug turf wars.

Then maybe the system would be fair.

[Guest guest]

> I don't see why all the bleeding hearts are against longer prison

sentences.

What would you

> bleeding hearts do ??? Let murderers get out of jail in like 2

years with a

> full ride scholarship? Someone with a truckload of cocaine get

off with

> probation???

Murder is a serious crime and the punishment should be severe. My

heart bleeds for the victims, thier families, and their loved ones.

My heart does not bleed for the murderer. A truckload of cocain

should not be a crime. What penalty do you think a truckload of

cocain should bring?

Tommy

[Guest guest]

I think Marijuana

> should possibly be legal but hard drugs should not. I agree with

the current

> system in my state.

Obviously you are a more loyal subject of the pharmocracy in which we

live than I am. I believe that self medication is a natural human

right. In the U.S. today people are persecuted and imprisoned for

possing a drug as natural as opium which was considered a miracle

drug for centuries. It is simply the dried juice of the poppy. Is

it a hard drug. Also in the U.S. today the government shoves some of

the most toxic drugs ever formulated down the throats of people. Is

Haldol a hard drug? Is ritalin a hard drug?

Until the early twentieth century all drugs were legal in the U.S. A

load of cocain in Atlanta probably came from New Orleans and was

headed for the Coca Cola Co. I wonder if the term soft drink came

about after they stopped adding hard drugs to it.

Tommy

[Guest guest]

If that is directed at my post, you are getting way off track from my

point. I never mentioned race. Why would you addreess such

ridiculous questions to me?

Tommy

> A black drug gang got busted for drugs in my town and I am glad

they are in federal prison. In addition to dealing crack cocaine

they were responsible for drive by shootings and murder. As far as

the prison system being racist, I don't believe it. I work at my

cities trauma center and most of the shooting victims are black as

are most of the shooters. Should we have a program of affirmative

action for our prison system? SHould we convince more white

teenagers it is a good idea to shoot other white teenagers in drug

turf wars. Then maybe the system would be fair.

[Guest guest]

It is perfectly legal to wish death on your enemies. As long as you don't

specifically tell someone to kill someone or pay them too you can wish death on

your enemies all you want. You can make voodoo dolls of your enemies too and

put pins in them. I do and I have seen my enemies get sick and die. I have

cursed like three people who have died. I have cursed others and they got real

sick. I still do hope someone sprays an AA convention full of bullets. I hope

it happens. I have never been to jail and never will go.

[Guest guest]

Hell I hope they do away with long prison sentences for murderers. Then if they

give you a scholarship to Harvard to help treat the poor messed up criminal, I

will definetely torture to death anyone who attacks me or my family. In fact if

they reduce the prison sentence for mass murder to 30 days of psychological

treatment I may have to go ahead and kill some people I don't like.

[Guest guest]

no I am not disapointed they are gone..... I rejoice!! I rejoice in my victory!!

[Guest guest]

Thoth,

It is worth noting that you were recently hoping someone would spray

bullets in an AA meeting. Generally ppl who support the death

penalty

are themselves generally more aggreessive than opponents. I

expect many on death row may have approved of it beforehand;

indeed, in some cases, the murder they committed was essentially

them passing their own death sentence on their enemies, such as

anti-abortion ppl who shoot abortion providers. Point to ponder.

Pete.

> Well I am pro-death penalty for murder. I am for long prison

sentences for

> violent criminals. From what I have seen in my state people who

get

caught

> with a truck load of cocaine already usually have an extensive

criminal

> record. The sentencing is usually based on their record. I think

10 years

> in prison. If you were caught dealing drugs in my state and you

had

a clean

> record and it was your first offense and the quantity wasn't huge

you very

> well could get probation. But hell in my state if you shoplift

like

20 times

> they will send you to prison. A black guy in my state got shot

and

killed

> by the cops. They are making him out to be a martyr and a saint.

The cop

> probably shouldn't have killed him( which I think was an accident

by

a scared

> cop), but the black guy had been to jail like 15 times since he

was

15 years

> old. He just got out of jail and was in the process of stealing a

car

> leading the cops on a high speed chase. In my experience and

talking to

> friends who are cops and attorneys, sentencing has a lot to do with

your

> previous record. If you are stupid enough to steal or get minor

drug charges

> over and over in my opinion you deserve to go to prison. I think

Marijuana

> should possibly be legal but hard drugs should not. I agree with

the current

> system in my state.

[Guest guest]

Yeah, well, once they `are gone, who's left to hate? Aren't you

disappointed that your hate`obect is gone?

[Guest guest]

No one is talking about sending killers to Harvard. Not even the

liberals.

Where are you coming from?

[Guest guest]

What did they do to ya? It must have been pretty awful.

Jeez, I've really hated only a few, but I only wanted them out of my

life, not out of life.

[Guest guest]

I am not defending AA, but obviously you are a very sick person yourself and

should seek professional help.

Where are you Ken? You should ice this person.

It is never appropriate to make threats or try to incite other's to do your

dirty work for you because of differences of opinion or ideas.

Allowing this to go on is as sick as the courts sending people to AA, as most

are there against there will.

Lawrence

[Guest guest]

The reassuring light of reason, Tommy, thanks,

.

>

>Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups

>To: 12-step-freeegroups

>Subject: Re: Crime and Punishment

>Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 20:13:39 -0000

>

>

> I think Marijuana

> > should possibly be legal but hard drugs should not. I agree with

>the current

> > system in my state.

>

>Obviously you are a more loyal subject of the pharmocracy in which we

>live than I am. I believe that self medication is a natural human

>right. In the U.S. today people are persecuted and imprisoned for

>possing a drug as natural as opium which was considered a miracle

>drug for centuries. It is simply the dried juice of the poppy. Is

>it a hard drug. Also in the U.S. today the government shoves some of

>the most toxic drugs ever formulated down the throats of people. Is

>Haldol a hard drug? Is ritalin a hard drug?

>

>Until the early twentieth century all drugs were legal in the U.S. A

>load of cocain in Atlanta probably came from New Orleans and was

>headed for the Coca Cola Co. I wonder if the term soft drink came

>about after they stopped adding hard drugs to it.

>

>Tommy

>

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[Guest guest]

Hmmm. " Murder and drugs are synonomous. " Is murder synonomous with

legal drugs or illegal drugs. If illegal drugs is your answer then

just make them all legal. I don't recall reading about drive by

shootings over ny Red, at least not lately. I really

don't have time for a long debate on this, but if you are interested

I can recommend some good books. You might start with " Our Right to

Drugs: The Case for a Free Market " by Szasz.

Tommy

> > > I don't see why all the bleeding hearts are against longer

prison

> > sentences.

> > What would you

> > > bleeding hearts do ??? Let murderers get out of jail in like 2

> > years with a

> > > full ride scholarship? Someone with a truckload of cocaine

get

> > off with

> > > probation???

> >

> > Murder is a serious crime and the punishment should be severe.

My

> > heart bleeds for the victims, thier families, and their loved

> ones.

> > My heart does not bleed for the murderer. A truckload of cocain

> > should not be a crime. What penalty do you think a truckload of

> > cocain should bring?

> >

> > Tommy

> I am forced to comment here. As one who has had extensive

dealings

> with cocaine dealers over some thirty years I must remind you of

the

> trail of blood that is behind that truckload of cocaine. Trust me

> that for every truckload of coke, or pot, for every airplane full

of

> heroin and for every speed lab there is a body to account for

> somewhere along the line. Murder and drugs are synonomous.

[Guest guest]

Tommy...thanks!

[Guest guest]

I am not a skinhead. I am a Satanist. There is a big difference. I have

black friends and I am married to a Native American. I hate scumbag white

criminals just as much as black ones. What I am saying is that if we don't

make punishment bad for criminals there is no reason to behave. One black

guy and I were watching a special on chain gangs at work. THe black guy on

the chain gang was bitching that he had no education. My black friend

commented that the guy on the chain gang probably didn't care about school

when he was free. He said when the guy gets out he probably won't go to

school but is just bitching because he was punished. Unlike the black

leadership many blacks are in favor of the death penalty. A couple of

skinheads in my town killed and innocent black girl. I talked to her cousin

and she was in favor of putting them to death. I am in favor of them being

put to death. was all in favor of going easy on the young

black teenager iel Abraham who killed another black teenager. His

victims family who was black wanted the young offender to get life in prison.

Many black people are in favor of getting tough on crime. You just don't

hear about it because the so called " black leaders " aren't.

[Guest guest]

To Thothtahut:

Are you really a skinhead, or do you just talk/write like one??

~Rita

>Hell I hope they do away with long prison sentences for murderers. Then if

they give you a scholarship to Harvard to help treat the poor messed up

criminal, I will definetely torture to death anyone who attacks me or my family.

In fact if they reduce the prison sentence for mass murder to 30 days of

psychological treatment I may have to go ahead and kill some people I don't

like.

>

--== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--

Before you buy.

[Guest guest]

Thoth

At the risk of getting cursed, I feel it's worth remarking on the obvious

consanguinity of Satanism and Joe Normal right wing politics.

I always feel when the chips are down the poltical right is never on the

side of the angels. Stalin may have been a hell of a bastard but he was

God's own bastard when it came to stamping on cockroach Adolph, bit of a

Satan-kid himself, and the Soviet Union was, er, somewhat left of centre.

This'll proably start an argument, but the old " strength good weakness bad "

BS that is at the heart of your belief system is just the law of the feckin

jungle -- the untermensch has only himself to blame, yada yada yada . . .

just like dear old XA -- if you can't make the programme, you're just a

natural born loser cos you fail to make the choices you shoulda done.

" The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom "

.

, if or get at Staligrad.

>From: Thothtahut@...

>Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups

>To: 12-step-freeegroups

>Subject: Re: Re: Crime and Punishment

>Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 10:20:14 EDT

>

>I am not a skinhead. I am a Satanist. There is a big difference. I have

>black friends and I am married to a Native American. I hate scumbag white

>criminals just as much as black ones. What I am saying is that if we don't

>make punishment bad for criminals there is no reason to behave. One black

>guy and I were watching a special on chain gangs at work. THe black guy on

>the chain gang was bitching that he had no education. My black friend

>commented that the guy on the chain gang probably didn't care about school

>when he was free. He said when the guy gets out he probably won't go to

>school but is just bitching because he was punished. Unlike the black

>leadership many blacks are in favor of the death penalty. A couple of

>skinheads in my town killed and innocent black girl. I talked to her

>cousin

>and she was in favor of putting them to death. I am in favor of them being

>put to death. was all in favor of going easy on the young

>black teenager iel Abraham who killed another black teenager. His

>victims family who was black wanted the young offender to get life in

>prison.

> Many black people are in favor of getting tough on crime. You just don't

>hear about it because the so called " black leaders " aren't.

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[Guest guest]

You've got a big point Pete, but the Russians did the dying and the fighting

and stopped the Nazis in their tracks with the aid of the same weather than

stopped Napoleon in 1812. And the Kirov plant went on producing tanks

throughout, with the workers on a couple of ounces of bread a day for months

on end. Both Hitler and Stalin were buying time with their non-aggression

pact -- you've got a point, but so have I,and if the chips were really down

I'd sooner die toeing a Commie line than a Nazi one.

.

>From: watts_pete@...

>Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups

>To: 12-step-freeegroups

>Subject: Re: Crime and Punishment

>Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 21:59:19 -0000

>

>

> Stalin may have been a hell of a bastard but he

>was

> > God's own bastard when it came to stamping on cockroach Adolph, bit

>of a

> > Satan-kid himself, and the Soviet Union was, er, somewhat left of

>centre.

>

>You bought PC history Doug. It's bullcrap. Stalin was in bed with

>Hitler at first, attacked Finland (and kicked the shit out of

>Goliath for his pains) and invaded Poland at the same time Hitler did.

>

>And what happens when a guy gets into bed with the likes of Hitler?

>Why Adolf boned him up it with Operation Barabarossa of course - and

>it was Uncle Sam and Bull who saved Uncle Joe's sorry ass from

>further punishment - we saved Leningrad directly by supply and in

>reality the whold damn country - and then let left rewrite history as

>it being the other way around!

>

>P.

>

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