Guest guest Posted August 5, 2003 Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 I tried it for a while, but you can't get the dosage high enough, even with the mega B-12. You'd be giving a bottle a day to equal the amount in the B-12 shots, or so the Dr. tells me. > Anyone using it? > Dosage? > Source? > Thx. > J > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2003 Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 We use the NOW brand Brain B12 1000mcg. I noticed that my son got more energy (he needs it) when we started him on this. I give him two tablets a day. It is sublingual...he chews and swallows it. [ ] Sublingual B12 > Anyone using it? > Dosage? > Source? > Thx. > J > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2003 Report Share Posted August 6, 2003 hi, i bought sub-lingual B-12 (methylcobalamin) from www.vrp.com it's dosed at 1000mcg/dropper, one to two times a day. It's a liquid and tastes pretty good. > Anyone using it? > Dosage? > Source? > Thx. > J > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 I have a question similar to this. Our local RD organization had a booth at a grocery store this week in honor of RD Day and National Nutrition Month. We had a mother of a 14-year-old come up and blast us for not being " experts " in celiac disease. Apparently she had a bad experience in the past & has since started her own support group for celiac disease. We are in a smaller Texas city, so we don't have all the same resources that Houston, Dallas, or somewhere else would offer. This mom is very knowledgeable and I truly believe she is doing everything possible diet-wise to be gluten-free. Anyway, her problem was that her daughter doesn't tolerate any vitamins or calcium supplements. She already has evidence of osteoporosis according to her mom. I think she is also worried about her fertility long-term. She apparently gets diarrhea after any vitamin or mineral supplement except the gummy children's vitamins. They've tried multiple brands. Her daughter refuses to eat the foods that we would traditionally recommend being high in folic acid. Her mom has tried growing a garden with her, having her help prepare the vegetables, etc. The whole family is gluten-free because she's so sensitive. I don't remember if she's able to tolerate any dairy. I suggested she check into sublingual B12 and the spray multivitamins. We encouraged her to have the doctors check her vitamin labs (that hasn't been checked before). I told her that some of the supplements could be given IV/IM. What else can I tell her? Does anyone have any suggestions about dealing with this malabsorption issue? Is some sublingual absorption better than nothing? Or are the spray multivitamins a total waste of time? Thanks! Jody Peach, MS, RD, LD > > I was wondering if anyone had any research articles regarding the use > of sublingual B12. I am looking for the % of absorption and > specifically the pathway of absorption (passive/active). > > > Thank You, > > Carrick, RD > Outpatient Dietitian > Saint Agnes Medical Center > Fresno, CA > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 Jody, I was surprised to hear over and over at the International Celiac Conference I attended in New York a little over a year ago that it is known that many issues in celiac disease are not solved by the gluten-free diet. I went to that conference to see if anyone was talking about the risks of oxalate that are in the literature to someone that continues to have a leaky gut and/or steatorrhea after being faithfully gluten-free, but this problem was definitely not in the minds of the doctors and researchers treating celiac. I've also run into children who couldn't tolerate calcium. I don't have time to look now, but I'll see if I can find out if something worked to change that in some of these families. Last year some of what I had been talking about regarding this celiac connection had filtered into a website called celiac.com, and people there with celiac were experimenting with lowering oxalates in their diet. This is what one listmate reported back: ================ , I will ask the other folks on our low oxalate thread at celiac.com to post their progress over here. Most of us are very new on this diet, a few longer-term, and a handful of very happy stories plus a few early and tentatively optimistic ones. I keep saying over there that I think their website should post a banner that says, " If Gluten-Free isn't doing it, try going low oxalate! " Many of us have also found that nightshade family vegetables to be equally problematic. .... There are several folks who have been on LOD who now report being able to eat corn products again when they couldn't before. Dairy also. Some say beef where they couldn't before. It's a little different for everyone. I'm not far enough down the healing road yet to start experimenting. ================= It may be that this child is sensitive to oxalates and is avoiding the veggies that are high oxalate. You can send the mother to www.lowoxalate.info to check out the food charts to see if that describes the common feature to the foods the child avoids.. Some people with GI issues that won't heal otherwise find a benefit from removing complex carbs in a diet called the Specific Carbohydrate Diet (SCD). Some do a combination of SCD and LOD, but that is ,more difficult, as it really narrows the food choices, but if that is what it takes to get the GI tract to actually work at absorbing ANY nutritition, then that is better than before On the cobalamin front, our doctors dealing with kids whose GI tracts are still very messed up, give some nutrients sublingually, some transdermally, but a LOT of kids get B12 in the form of methylcobalamin via injections their parents administer to them several times a week using a needle that is so thin that the child hardly notices. There was one video circling around of a child whose parents were trying to give vitamins orally and the child was screaming and falling apart at their efforts to get him to take the oral viatmins, but when they administered the shot, it went so much better and the child hardly noticed. It was powerfully persuasive for the injections causing less trauma, believe it or not! There has also been a popular use of nasal sprays for cobalamin. Because of the sulfur issues in autism, our doctors have preferred not to use cyanocobalamin because of its need for functional rhodanese activity which may not be working well in some of the B12 deficient population. You can find info on youtube comparing the various cobalamins at the following site: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AczBuCuYY2E This interview is from one of our DAN! doctors. If you look on right side of the page for related videos, you will see topics on nasal spray and on the injections. Another DAN! doctor (Jim Neubrander) was the one who discovered how important methylcobalamin was to the kids with autism. He has a website where many parents have uploaded videos of the changes in their children on this therapy which may be of interest to some of you. I've also put an article below about using plasma citrulline as a way to tell if the gut is healed in celiac disease. >Gastroenterology. 2003 May;124(5):1210-9.[] Links > >Plasma citrulline: A marker of enterocyte mass in villous >atrophy-associated small bowel disease. > >Crenn P, Vahedi K, Lavergne-Slove A, Cynober L, Matuchansky C, Messing B. > >Department of Hepagastroenterology and Nutrion Support, Hópital >Lariboisière, Paris, France. crenn@... > >BACKGROUND & AIMS: Plasma citrulline, a nonprotein amino acid produced by >enterocytes, was suggested as a marker of remnant enterocyte mass in >patients with short bowel. Our objective was to evaluate citrulline as a >marker of severity and extent of villous atrophy in patients without >intestinal resection. METHODS: Forty-two patients with celiac disease and >10 patients with non-celiac villous atrophy disease were studied by plasma >postabsorptive citrulline and biological dosages, biopsies of proximal >(duodenojejunal) small bowel and distal ileum (n = 25), or measurement of >vitamin B(12) absorption (n = 4). Nine patients were reevaluated after >following a gluten-free diet for 1 year. Controls were 51 healthy subjects >and 10 severely malnourished patients with anorexia nervosa with no >intestinal mucosal abnormalities. RESULTS: Plasma citrulline concentration >was lower (P < 0.001) in patients with villous atrophy (24 +/- 13 >micromol/L) than in healthy subjects (40 +/- 10 micromol/L) and patients >with anorexia nervosa (39 +/- 9 micromol/L). Three thresholds were >individualized: <10 micromol/L for patients with diffuse total villous >atrophy (n = 10), 10-20 micromol/L for patients with proximal-only total >villous atrophy (n = 12), and 20-30 micromol/L for patients with partial >villous atrophy (n = 10). Plasma citrulline concentration was correlated to >the severity and extent of villous atrophy (r = 0.81; P < 0.001) and to >albuminemia (r = 0.47; P < 0.01). Receiver operating characteristic curves >indicated that plasma citrulline concentration was the best biological >variable to predict villous atrophy. Following a 1-year gluten-free diet, >plasma citrulline concentration increased in histologically responsive (n = >6) but not in unresponsive (n = 3) patients. CONCLUSIONS: In patient >villous atrophy diseases, plasma citrulline concentration may prove to be a >simple and reliable marker of reduced enterocyte mass. > >PMID: 12730862 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] At 09:15 AM 3/13/2008, you wrote: >I have a question similar to this. Our local RD organization had a >booth at a grocery store this week in honor of RD Day and National >Nutrition Month. We had a mother of a 14-year-old come up and blast us >for not being " experts " in celiac disease. Apparently she had a bad >experience in the past & has since started her own support group for >celiac disease. We are in a smaller Texas city, so we don't have all >the same resources that Houston, Dallas, or somewhere else would >offer. This mom is very knowledgeable and I truly believe she is doing >everything possible diet-wise to be gluten-free. > >Anyway, her problem was that her daughter doesn't tolerate any >vitamins or calcium supplements. She already has evidence of >osteoporosis according to her mom. I think she is also worried about >her fertility long-term. She apparently gets diarrhea after any >vitamin or mineral supplement except the gummy children's vitamins. >They've tried multiple brands. Her daughter refuses to eat the foods >that we would traditionally recommend being high in folic acid. Her >mom has tried growing a garden with her, having her help prepare the >vegetables, etc. The whole family is gluten-free because she's so >sensitive. I don't remember if she's able to tolerate any dairy. I >suggested she check into sublingual B12 and the spray multivitamins. >We encouraged her to have the doctors check her vitamin labs (that >hasn't been checked before). I told her that some of the supplements >could be given IV/IM. > >What else can I tell her? Does anyone have any suggestions about >dealing with this malabsorption issue? Is some sublingual absorption >better than nothing? Or are the spray multivitamins a total waste of time? > >Thanks! > >Jody Peach, MS, RD, LD -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.6/1318 - Release Date: 3/7/2008 2:01 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 You should have her look at Solgar vitamins, most all of their vitamins are gluten free. She can call 1-800-SOLGAR4 to check on specific ones. From: jodypeach@...Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 13:15:06 +0000Subject: Re: Sublingual B12 I have a question similar to this. Our local RD organization had abooth at a grocery store this week in honor of RD Day and NationalNutrition Month. We had a mother of a 14-year-old come up and blast usfor not being "experts" in celiac disease. Apparently she had a badexperience in the past & has since started her own support group forceliac disease. We are in a smaller Texas city, so we don't have allthe same resources that Houston, Dallas, or somewhere else wouldoffer. This mom is very knowledgeable and I truly believe she is doingeverything possible diet-wise to be gluten-free.Anyway, her problem was that her daughter doesn't tolerate anyvitamins or calcium supplements. She already has evidence ofosteoporosis according to her mom. I think she is also worried abouther fertility long-term. She apparently gets diarrhea after anyvitamin or mineral supplement except the gummy children's vitamins.They've tried multiple brands. Her daughter refuses to eat the foodsthat we would traditionally recommend being high in folic acid. Hermom has tried growing a garden with her, having her help prepare thevegetables, etc. The whole family is gluten-free because she's sosensitive. I don't remember if she's able to tolerate any dairy. Isuggested she check into sublingual B12 and the spray multivitamins.We encouraged her to have the doctors check her vitamin labs (thathasn't been checked before). I told her that some of the supplementscould be given IV/IM. What else can I tell her? Does anyone have any suggestions aboutdealing with this malabsorption issue? Is some sublingual absorptionbetter than nothing? Or are the spray multivitamins a total waste of time?Thanks!Jody Peach, MS, RD, LD>> I was wondering if anyone had any research articles regarding the use > of sublingual B12. I am looking for the % of absorption and > specifically the pathway of absorption (passive/active). > > > Thank You, > > Carrick, RD> Outpatient Dietitian > Saint Agnes Medical Center> Fresno, CA> Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail®-get your "fix". Check it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2008 Report Share Posted March 16, 2008 I sent this earlier....I don't know what happened to it, but I've changed it sllightly. Jody, I've also run into children who couldn't tolerate calcium. I don't have time to look now, but I'll see if I can find out if something worked to change that in some of these families. On the cobalamin front, our doctors dealing with kids whose GI tracts are still very messed up, give some nutrients sublingually, some transdermally, but a LOT of kids get B12 in the form of methylcobalamin via injections their parents administer to them several times a week using a needle that is so thin that the child hardly notices. There was one video circling around of a child whose parents were trying to give vitamins orally and the child was screaming and falling apart at their efforts to get him to take the oral viatmins, but when they administered the shot, it went so much better and the child hardly noticed. It was powerfully persuasive for the injections causing less trauma, believe it or not! There has also been a popular use of nasal sprays for cobalamin. Because of the sulfur issues in autism, our doctors have preferred not to use cyanocobalamin because of its need for functional rhodanese activity which may not be working well in some of the B12 deficient population. You can find info on youtube comparing the various cobalamins at the following site: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AczBuCuYY2E This interview is from one of our DAN! doctors. If you look on right side of the page for related videos, you will see topics on nasal spray and on the injections. Another DAN! doctor (Jim Neubrander) was the one who discovered how important methylcobalamin was to the kids with autism. He has a website where many parents have uploaded videos of the changes in their children on this therapy which may be of interest to some of you. It may be that this child is sensitive to oxalates and is avoiding the veggies that are high oxalate. You can send the mother to www.lowoxalate.info to check out the food charts to see if that describes the common feature to the foods the child avoids.. I also thought you might be interested in this: I was surprised to hear over and over at the International Celiac Conference I attended in New York a little over a year ago that it is known that many issues in celiac disease are not solved by the gluten-free diet. No one at the conference mentioned the risks to someone with celiac from oxalate if they continue to have a leaky gut and/or steatorrhea after being faithfully gluten-free. Last year, this oxalate/celiac connection filtered from my site into a website called celiac.com, and people there with celiac began experimenting with lowering oxalates in their diet. This is what one listmate reported back: ================ , I will ask the other folks on our low oxalate thread at celiac.com to post their progress over here. Most of us are very new on this diet, a few longer-term, and a handful of very happy stories plus a few early and tentatively optimistic ones. I keep saying over there that I think their website should post a banner that says, " If Gluten-Free isn't doing it, try going low oxalate! " Many of us have also found that nightshade family vegetables to be equally problematic. .... There are several folks who have been on LOD who now report being able to eat corn products again when they couldn't before. Dairy also. Some say beef where they couldn't before. It's a little different for everyone. I'm not far enough down the healing road yet to start experimenting. ================= Some people with GI issues that won't heal otherwise find a benefit from also removing complex carbs in a diet called the Specific Carbohydrate Diet (SCD). Some do a combination of SCD and LOD, but that is ,more difficult, as it really narrows the food choices. Even so, in some who have GI problems that won't heal via any method, this is sometimes what it takes to get the GI tract to actually work at absorbing ANY nutritition, so for them, it ends up worth it. Of course, I'm not saying this as an RD but as an autism researcher following GI issues in children along with others in our thinktank. You have no idea how many parents WISH they could find dieticians who knew how to help them with these diets whose effectiveness they've heard of through other parents with children with similar GI issues. I've also put an article below about using plasma citrulline as a way to tell if the gut is healed in celiac disease. >Gastroenterology. 2003 May;124(5):1210-9.[] Links > >Plasma citrulline: A marker of enterocyte mass in villous >atrophy-associated small bowel disease. > >Crenn P, Vahedi K, Lavergne-Slove A, Cynober L, Matuchansky C, Messing B. > >Department of Hepagastroenterology and Nutrion Support, Hópital >Lariboisière, Paris, France. crenn@... > >BACKGROUND & AIMS: Plasma citrulline, a nonprotein amino acid produced by >enterocytes, was suggested as a marker of remnant enterocyte mass in >patients with short bowel. Our objective was to evaluate citrulline as a >marker of severity and extent of villous atrophy in patients without >intestinal resection. METHODS: Forty-two patients with celiac disease and >10 patients with non-celiac villous atrophy disease were studied by plasma >postabsorptive citrulline and biological dosages, biopsies of proximal >(duodenojejunal) small bowel and distal ileum (n = 25), or measurement of >vitamin B(12) absorption (n = 4). Nine patients were reevaluated after >following a gluten-free diet for 1 year. Controls were 51 healthy subjects >and 10 severely malnourished patients with anorexia nervosa with no >intestinal mucosal abnormalities. RESULTS: Plasma citrulline concentration >was lower (P < 0.001) in patients with villous atrophy (24 +/- 13 >micromol/L) than in healthy subjects (40 +/- 10 micromol/L) and patients >with anorexia nervosa (39 +/- 9 micromol/L). Three thresholds were >individualized: <10 micromol/L for patients with diffuse total villous >atrophy (n = 10), 10-20 micromol/L for patients with proximal-only total >villous atrophy (n = 12), and 20-30 micromol/L for patients with partial >villous atrophy (n = 10). Plasma citrulline concentration was correlated to >the severity and extent of villous atrophy (r = 0.81; P < 0.001) and to >albuminemia (r = 0.47; P < 0.01). Receiver operating characteristic curves >indicated that plasma citrulline concentration was the best biological >variable to predict villous atrophy. Following a 1-year gluten-free diet, >plasma citrulline concentration increased in histologically responsive (n = >6) but not in unresponsive (n = 3) patients. CONCLUSIONS: In patient >villous atrophy diseases, plasma citrulline concentration may prove to be a >simple and reliable marker of reduced enterocyte mass. > >PMID: 12730862 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] At 09:15 AM 3/13/2008, you wrote: >I have a question similar to this. Our local RD organization had a >booth at a grocery store this week in honor of RD Day and National >Nutrition Month. We had a mother of a 14-year-old come up and blast us >for not being " experts " in celiac disease. Apparently she had a bad >experience in the past & has since started her own support group for >celiac disease. We are in a smaller Texas city, so we don't have all >the same resources that Houston, Dallas, or somewhere else would >offer. This mom is very knowledgeable and I truly believe she is doing >everything possible diet-wise to be gluten-free. > >Anyway, her problem was that her daughter doesn't tolerate any >vitamins or calcium supplements. She already has evidence of >osteoporosis according to her mom. I think she is also worried about >her fertility long-term. She apparently gets diarrhea after any >vitamin or mineral supplement except the gummy children's vitamins. >They've tried multiple brands. Her daughter refuses to eat the foods >that we would traditionally recommend being high in folic acid. Her >mom has tried growing a garden with her, having her help prepare the >vegetables, etc. The whole family is gluten-free because she's so >sensitive. I don't remember if she's able to tolerate any dairy. I >suggested she check into sublingual B12 and the spray multivitamins. >We encouraged her to have the doctors check her vitamin labs (that >hasn't been checked before). I told her that some of the supplements >could be given IV/IM. > >What else can I tell her? Does anyone have any suggestions about >dealing with this malabsorption issue? Is some sublingual absorption >better than nothing? Or are the spray multivitamins a total waste of time? > >Thanks! > >Jody Peach, MS, RD, LD -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1330 - Release Date: 3/15/2008 2:36 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 17, 2008 Report Share Posted March 17, 2008 Jody, I'll start this response by saying that I am in no way an expert in celiac disease. I admire RD's that choose to see celiac disease patients because it isn't an easy group to counsel. A few years back, I decided to walk in the shoes of a gluten-free diet follower for a month to see exactly what life would be like and hence improve my ability to give " real world " advice to my (few and far between) celiac disease patients. Vitamins were an issue back then because virtually every national brand contained gluten as a filler. The only vitamin that I could find that did not was a store brand generic (I live in Florida -- it was the Publix (our local grocery chain) vitamin). I have noticed that over time, many of the national brands have started to remove the gluten and replace it with corn starch. One-a-day Women's has done this. This is probably good for most celiac patients, but tolerance in this group is extremely variable and further more, most celiac disease patients also have one or more additonal food sensitivites such as lactose or soy. Many vitamins do still contain a soy lecithin. I would recommend investigating liquid vitamins and perhaps re-trying some of the vitamins with new formulations. The Flintstones Gummies are not a good long term solution for a teenager or adult as they are not complete. Off the top of my head, I know they lack iron and zinc and I am sure additional nutrients are also lacking. If you can find the name of an RD who specilizes in celiac disease, even if it somewhere else in Texas, I would provide this to the patient's mother. A good resource to fall back on over the years is precious to this population. Nadia Marzella MS, RD, LD/N > > > > I was wondering if anyone had any research articles regarding the use > > of sublingual B12. I am looking for the % of absorption and > > specifically the pathway of absorption (passive/active). > > > > > > Thank You, > > > > Carrick, RD > > Outpatient Dietitian > > Saint Agnes Medical Center > > Fresno, CA > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2010 Report Share Posted November 17, 2010 Perque Activated B12 guard is what we use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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