Re: Thinning the ranks?

[Guest guest]

Tom,

I know that ECA is out there. I'd just like to see the fire departments

recognize that EMT is not necessarily the only skills solution to providing

first response. And I believe that, long term, EMT should be an entry-level

certification for those seeking to practice prehospital care, rather than BLS

first response as another facet of their primary mission (fighting fires or

crimes).

-Wes

In a message dated 7/5/2005 12:32:03 PM Central Daylight Time,

FireMedic1633@... writes:

Hey Wes,

You mean like an ECA?

Its all ready there.

Tom

--- ExLngHrn@... wrote:

---------------------------------

Currently, the Texas Commission on Fire Protection

requires that to become a

paid firefighter in Texas that you possess either an

Emergency Care Attendant

(or higher) certification from the Department of

State Health Services or

completion of the Red Cross's Emergency Response

Course. The reality is that

most paid fire departments require EMT certification.

On this list (and others), we've all heard complaints

about EMS students

taking the EMT course solely because they need it for

the fire academy. And

we've heard some complaints about fire department EMTs

just " going through the

motions. " (STANDARD DISCLAIMER -- I realize there are

substandard medics in

ANY system.)

Would it be better to create a new lower level of

certification for public

safety personnel who are not staffing an EMS transport

unit? I'd propose a

basic public safety first responder curriculum

centered around the current First

Responder skills. I'd emphasize bleeding control,

oxygen administration,

CPR, AED, pathogen protection, and

interactions/assisting EMS personnel.

Personally, I think it should be required for both

fire and police personnel.

Just some food for thought. I'll put on my Nomex now,

fully expecting to be

flamed.

-Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, EMT

Austin, Texas

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

Hey Wes,

You mean like an ECA?

Its all ready there.

Tom

--- ExLngHrn@... wrote:

---------------------------------

Currently, the Texas Commission on Fire Protection

requires that to become a

paid firefighter in Texas that you possess either an

Emergency Care Attendant

(or higher) certification from the Department of

State Health Services or

completion of the Red Cross's Emergency Response

Course. The reality is that

most paid fire departments require EMT certification.

On this list (and others), we've all heard complaints

about EMS students

taking the EMT course solely because they need it for

the fire academy. And

we've heard some complaints about fire department EMTs

just " going through the

motions. " (STANDARD DISCLAIMER -- I realize there are

substandard medics in

ANY system.)

Would it be better to create a new lower level of

certification for public

safety personnel who are not staffing an EMS transport

unit? I'd propose a

basic public safety first responder curriculum

centered around the current First

Responder skills. I'd emphasize bleeding control,

oxygen administration,

CPR, AED, pathogen protection, and

interactions/assisting EMS personnel.

Personally, I think it should be required for both

fire and police personnel.

Just some food for thought. I'll put on my Nomex now,

fully expecting to be

flamed.

-Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, EMT

Austin, Texas

[Guest guest]

Dudley,

Your points are not all that bad and even perhaps arguable but let's look at

this from a more educational basis with a bit of operational issues tossed in

for a second.

Why not have a true staircase method of certification starting with a 40

hour course that let's you do the skills that ECA (FR) allows and then have a

way through a CON ED process to get to some in between ECA and BAISC level then

allow another 40 or so hours BRIDGE COURSE (I am sure I just had my NR

revoked for life using that phrase) which has the now semi seasoned via actual

street runs and a fair smattering of DECENT CON ED (note the requirement that

the courses be DECENT) so after a period of time and on a schedule that flexes

with the needs of the STUDENT in the rural area he can achieve the level of

BASIC, then if the system were to work at this level why could one not do this

all the way up to the P level? Could such a system work in today's world?

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

LNMolino@...

(IFW Office)

(Cell Phone)

(IFW Fax)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

[Guest guest]

Hey...I like that idea...a bridge course would be excellent to get from ECA to

Basic...and, could potentially make better EMT's if they work as ECA's

concentrating on just the skill portion first....they would come to class better

prepared to accept and understand the additional information because of their

field experience....would be cool to see how this would work.

Dudley

Re: Thinning the ranks?

Dudley,

Your points are not all that bad and even perhaps arguable but let's look at

this from a more educational basis with a bit of operational issues tossed in

for a second.

Why not have a true staircase method of certification starting with a 40

hour course that let's you do the skills that ECA (FR) allows and then have a

way through a CON ED process to get to some in between ECA and BAISC level then

allow another 40 or so hours BRIDGE COURSE (I am sure I just had my NR

revoked for life using that phrase) which has the now semi seasoned via actual

street runs and a fair smattering of DECENT CON ED (note the requirement that

the courses be DECENT) so after a period of time and on a schedule that flexes

with the needs of the STUDENT in the rural area he can achieve the level of

BASIC, then if the system were to work at this level why could one not do this

all the way up to the P level? Could such a system work in today's world?

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

LNMolino@...

(IFW Office)

(Cell Phone)

(IFW Fax)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

[Guest guest]

I believe that concept is absolutely ludacris! Most fire departments, vol. or

paid, will tell you that over 50% of their call volume is EMS related. Most

departments are over 70%. That would be a huge step in the wrong direction. We

need to foster an environment stressing professionalism. These kids coming out

of high school thinking the fire service would be a good career need to know

that it's not just firefighting anymore. Most of the " old timers " who didn't

want anything to do with EMS are retiring. We should take this opportunity to

usher in a new attitude toward EMS and increase our knowledge of it, not

decrease it!

Tom wrote:

Hey Wes,

You mean like an ECA?

Its all ready there.

Tom

--- ExLngHrn@... wrote:

---------------------------------

Currently, the Texas Commission on Fire Protection

requires that to become a

paid firefighter in Texas that you possess either an

Emergency Care Attendant

(or higher) certification from the Department of

State Health Services or

completion of the Red Cross's Emergency Response

Course. The reality is that

most paid fire departments require EMT certification.

On this list (and others), we've all heard complaints

about EMS students

taking the EMT course solely because they need it for

the fire academy. And

we've heard some complaints about fire department EMTs

just " going through the

motions. " (STANDARD DISCLAIMER -- I realize there are

substandard medics in

ANY system.)

Would it be better to create a new lower level of

certification for public

safety personnel who are not staffing an EMS transport

unit? I'd propose a

basic public safety first responder curriculum

centered around the current First

Responder skills. I'd emphasize bleeding control,

oxygen administration,

CPR, AED, pathogen protection, and

interactions/assisting EMS personnel.

Personally, I think it should be required for both

fire and police personnel.

Just some food for thought. I'll put on my Nomex now,

fully expecting to be

flamed.

-Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, EMT

Austin, Texas

[Guest guest]

This seems to be EXACTLY what Wes is saying needs to happen in Texas -

disenfranchise fire departments from EMS, and give them some other

certification.

As an EMS Captain with a volunteer fire-rescue department, I can only

tell you that in my opinion this is the WRONG way to go. I've got

guys DYING to go to an ECA course (trying to get one set up now!) so

that they can start helping on EMS scenes... and my ECA's want a

bridge to EMT. But the ECA is a great first step to get these guys

into EMS, and they love it.

Mike

CFR-D Info: For those probationary firefighters who lack a CFR-D

certification, the FDNY will provide on the job training, and upon

receipt of the certification, payroll deductions for the cost of the

training will commence.See the Notice of Examination for the details.

CFR-D Course Objectives (http://www.northshorelij.com/body.cfm?id=3537)

At the conclusion of the course the CFR-D must demonstrate competency in:

Patient assessment

Trauma care

Managing medical emergencies

Utilizing Basic Life Support equipment

CPR

Hemorrhage control

Fracture and spinal stabilization

Managing environmental emergencies

Emergency childbirth

Use of a semi-automatic defibrillator

> NY, I believe either has or had 5 levels of Paramedic, also (only P5 was an

> actual... as we know it... Paramedic), so no... not like NY.

>

> Mike