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Guest guest
Posted

Robyn,

It makes me hurt to think about your fissures. I hope the surgeon can see you soon & you can get some help. Until then, is there anything they can give you to ease the pain with bowel movements? A numbing cream or something? I know it won't stop the pain, but a little relief would be better than nothing.

Hugs,

-- Re: Robyn

Thanks Melinda,

I'm back home again now. There are two fissures. He has taken a biopsy to check them out but in the meantime I'm to see another surgeon now in Sydney who will do the botox injections. I ring today to see when I can get an appointment with him to see him and after that when I can have the injections. So, its more pain until all that is done. I haven't opened my bowels yet since the operation yesterday afternoon but I can feel it happening soon and I'm NOT looking forward to it.

Thanks for your concern. I really appreciate everyone's support.

(((Hugs)))

Robyn

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Guest guest
Posted

,

It's a delicate subject but my fissures are located just inside the entrance to my anus. Therefore each time I go to the toilet ( & with my Crohn's that's about 6 - 8 times every day!) they open up again. They are like tears in the skin of the anus. They are very painful. They have given me cortisone cream to put on them but it doesn't numb the pain at all. I'm also on digesives to help with the pain but I might as well be taking sweets for all the effect they have. To make matters worse since the exploratory operation on Wednesday I'm bleeding a real lot every time I go to the toilet. And the specialist who performed the operation and my local doctor are both away on holidays!!! I don't know whether to go to the local hospital and report in or what. I'm to see the next specialist in a hospital in Sydney on Tuesday but that is only for a consultation for him to decide if he will give me the botox injections on 23rd

July - that's another 2 weeks away!!! And I'm in constant pain now.

Ugg!

(((Hugs)))

Robyn wrote:

Since I don't know much about the fissures and where they're located, can't they give you something to numb them??

Hugs,

Theory of relativity: If you go back far enough, we're all related.

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Guest guest
Posted

Thanks ,

But no, they seem to think they are doing all they can for the pain. It is just difficult at present because it takes so long to see each of these doctors and then get treatment so this has been going on now for 5 weeks and I've still got another 2 weeks to go before I'm booked in for the botox injections!

Ugg!

(((Hugs)))

Robyn wrote:

Robyn,

It makes me hurt to think about your fissures. I hope the surgeon can see you soon & you can get some help. Until then, is there anything they can give you to ease the pain with bowel movements? A numbing cream or something? I know it won't stop the pain, but a little relief would be better than nothing.

Hugs,

-- Re: Robyn

Thanks Melinda,

I'm back home again now. There are two fissures. He has taken a biopsy to check them out but in the meantime I'm to see another surgeon now in Sydney who will do the botox injections. I ring today to see when I can get an appointment with him to see him and after that when I can have the injections. So, its more pain until all that is done. I haven't opened my bowels yet since the operation yesterday afternoon but I can feel it happening soon and I'm NOT looking forward to it.

Thanks for your concern. I really appreciate everyone's support.

(((Hugs)))

Robyn

Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.Please visit our website at:http://ACES_Autoimmune.tripod.com

____________________________________________________ IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here Please visit our website at:http://ACES_Autoimmune.tripod.com

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Guest guest
Posted

Thanks KathyKathy wrote:

You poor thing! I hate anything in that area--it's so sensitive.

Hope the injections go well.

Kathy

Re: Robyn

Thanks Melinda,

I'm back home again now. There are two fissures. He has taken a biopsy to check them out but in the meantime I'm to see another surgeon now in Sydney who will do the botox injections. I ring today to see when I can get an appointment with him to see him and after that when I can have the injections. So, its more pain until all that is done. I haven't opened my bowels yet since the operation yesterday afternoon but I can feel it happening soon and I'm NOT looking forward to it.

Thanks for your concern. I really appreciate everyone's support.

(((Hugs)))

Robyn

Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.Please visit our website at:http://ACES_Autoimmune.tripod.com Please visit our website at:http://ACES_Autoimmune.tripod.com

Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.

Guest guest
Posted

Thanks ChristyChristy wrote:

Robyn, when had her surgery, the doc gave her some zylocaine cream to rub on the area to numb it so she could use the bathroom. Have you asked your doc about anything like that? I wish they could have given you some form of relief at this appointment. I'm thinking of you and wishing you a speedy recovery!!

Hugs

Christy

Re: Robyn

Thanks Melinda,

I'm back home again now. There are two fissures. He has taken a biopsy to check them out but in the meantime I'm to see another surgeon now in Sydney who will do the botox injections. I ring today to see when I can get an appointment with him to see him and after that when I can have the injections. So, its more pain until all that is done. I haven't opened my bowels yet since the operation yesterday afternoon but I can feel it happening soon and I'm NOT looking forward to it.

Thanks for your concern. I really appreciate everyone's support.

(((Hugs)))

Robyn

Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.Please visit our website at:http://ACES_Autoimmune.tripod.com Please visit our website at:http://ACES_Autoimmune.tripod.com

Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.

Guest guest
Posted

Okay don't anyone laugh. Okay its made for other purposes, but its used for more stuff that listed. Don't ask!! lol

Robyn - Is there any products like this there that you could try. I don't know if this would be okay for that or not, but its a thought. Its a "DESENSITIZING LUBRICANT" the Active Ingredients: Benzocaine (7.5% in water washable base). http://hocks.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=HOP/PROD/2608784

Surely the doc could suggest something. Bless your heart hon, that's gotta hurt.

Hugs,

Theory of relativity: If you go back far enough, we're all related.

Guest guest
Posted

Kathy and everyone else,

I'm going to have to go to the hospital. I'm in even worse pain today than ever. I don't know how long I'll be there. Please think of me.

(((Hugs)))

RobynKathy wrote:

Cortisone? Umm--doesn't that keep them from healing? We always had patients off all steroids for surgery for that reason.

Sorry to hear you're in so much pain

(((hugs)))

Kathy

RE: Robyn

,

It's a delicate subject but my fissures are located just inside the entrance to my anus. Therefore each time I go to the toilet ( & with my Crohn's that's about 6 - 8 times every day!) they open up again. They are like tears in the skin of the anus. They are very painful. They have given me cortisone cream to put on them but it doesn't numb the pain at all. I'm also on digesives to help with the pain but I might as well be taking sweets for all the effect they have. To make matters worse since the exploratory operation on Wednesday I'm bleeding a real lot every time I go to the toilet. And the specialist who performed the operation and my local doctor are both away on holidays!!! I don't know whether to go to the local hospital and report in or what. I'm to see the next specialist in a hospital in Sydney on Tuesday but that is only for a consultation for him to decide if he will give me the botox injections on 23rd

July - that's another 2 weeks away!!! And I'm in constant pain now.

Ugg!

(((Hugs)))

Robyn wrote:

Since I don't know much about the fissures and where they're located, can't they give you something to numb them??

Hugs,

Theory of relativity: If you go back far enough, we're all related.

Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.Please visit our website at:http://ACES_Autoimmune.tripod.com Please visit our website at:http://ACES_Autoimmune.tripod.com

Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.

  • 3 weeks later...
Guest guest
Posted

Robyn, sorry to hear the botox didn't work. Have you tried Remicade? Can you take a stoool softener?

Good luck with everything else going on too. Keep us updated on everything. That includes you! But get your rest too.

x0x0x0

Shirley

Guest guest
Posted

((((((Robyn)))))) Surely they could find something that would help your pain.

Guest guest
Posted

Congrats on all the house stuff.

I know how much anyone hates to hear this, but it seems to me that with as long as this has gone on and as much pain as you are in , it's time for a temporary colostomy.

A friend of mine fought tooth and nail to avoid it when her doc suggested it, but was so relieved afterward to be able to go out without having to know where each toilet in the world was, and to be out of all the pain that when it came time to reverse it, she fought the Doc again. It gives the bowel, or in your case the anus, time to heal properly and rest. My friend has now been in remission for about 8 years.

(((hugs)))

Kathy

Re: Robyn

Good Morning Everyone,

Thanks for your thoughts and support during the time I've been in hospital. My daughter has been keeping me informed of the e-mails etc. Unfortunately the botox hasn't worked. I've been referred back to the gastroenterologist to up my Crohn's medication (I actually haven't been on Mesasal which was my Crohn's medication for many years - it's a long story) although I've been on the prednisone. I gather that they will aggressively target the Crohn's now with much more prednisone (UGG!!!) and add the Mesasal along with my Arava and Myfortic. That should certainly give my kidneys and liver something to struggle with!

My URGENT appointment with the gastro isn't until next Wednesday (I wonder how urgent they would make the appointment if they were actually in this much pain every day?) It's now been more than 8 weeks while I go through all this pain while they try to find a solution. I was on Endone but they are worried that it will add to my constipation. So now I have to decide each day whether to take the pain killers and make the situation worse or cope with the pain somehow so that the stools stay softer.

On a better note, my daughter had an offer on her house yesterday. Hopefully that will now be sold so that she can get out of her debt caused by her husband's gambling. My tenant has offered to buy the unit I rent to him once finance is approved. This will give us some funds to get my daughter a home of her own to live in with my two grandchildren. We are hoping that she will move north to be near us in our new home. We have heard that one of the couples who are interested in buying our home had a contract signed by someone wanting to buy their home yesterday. This means that in 10 days time (our legal cooling off period) they will be in the market to make an offer on our place if they still want it. Please send all your prayers and thoughts that this will happen. We will have to wait for 2 weeks to hear if they will buy our house. It will be the answer to our prayers if they do.

Please keep us in your thoughts and prayers.

(((Hugs)))

Robyn

Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.Please visit our website at:http://ACES_Autoimmune.tripod.com

Guest guest
Posted

, it's extremely difficult to find anything to help with anal pain because it is so vascular and such a sensitive area.

Kathy

RE: Robyn

((((((Robyn)))))) Surely they could find something that would help your pain.

Please visit our website at:http://ACES_Autoimmune.tripod.com

Guest guest
Posted

Exactly!

Kathy

Re: Robyn

Good Morning Everyone,

Thanks for your thoughts and support during the time I've been in hospital. My daughter has been keeping me informed of the e-mails etc. Unfortunately the botox hasn't worked. I've been referred back to the gastroenterologist to up my Crohn's medication (I actually haven't been on Mesasal which was my Crohn's medication for many years - it's a long story) although I've been on the prednisone. I gather that they will aggressively target the Crohn's now with much more prednisone (UGG!!!) and add the Mesasal along with my Arava and Myfortic. That should certainly give my kidneys and liver something to struggle with!

My URGENT appointment with the gastro isn't until next Wednesday (I wonder how urgent they would make the appointment if they were actually in this much pain every day?) It's now been more than 8 weeks while I go through all this pain while they try to find a solution. I was on Endone but they are worried that it will add to my constipation. So now I have to decide each day whether to take the pain killers and make the situation worse or cope with the pain somehow so that the stools stay softer.

On a better note, my daughter had an offer on her house yesterday. Hopefully that will now be sold so that she can get out of her debt caused by her husband's gambling. My tenant has offered to buy the unit I rent to him once finance is approved. This will give us some funds to get my daughter a home of her own to live in with my two grandchildren. We are hoping that she will move north to be near us in our new home. We have heard that one of the couples who are interested in buying our home had a contract signed by someone wanting to buy their home yesterday. This means that in 10 days time (our legal cooling off period) they will be in the market to make an offer on our place if they still want it. Please send all your prayers and thoughts that this will happen. We will have to wait for 2 weeks to hear if they will buy our house. It will be the answer to our prayers if they do.

Please keep us in your thoughts and prayers.

(((Hugs)))

Robyn

Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.Please visit our website at:http://ACES_Autoimmune.tripod.com Please visit our website at:http://ACES_Autoimmune.tripod.com Please visit our website at:http://ACES_Autoimmune.tripod.com

Guest guest
Posted

Exactly!

Kathy

Re: Robyn

Good Morning Everyone,

Thanks for your thoughts and support during the time I've been in hospital. My daughter has been keeping me informed of the e-mails etc. Unfortunately the botox hasn't worked. I've been referred back to the gastroenterologist to up my Crohn's medication (I actually haven't been on Mesasal which was my Crohn's medication for many years - it's a long story) although I've been on the prednisone. I gather that they will aggressively target the Crohn's now with much more prednisone (UGG!!!) and add the Mesasal along with my Arava and Myfortic. That should certainly give my kidneys and liver something to struggle with!

My URGENT appointment with the gastro isn't until next Wednesday (I wonder how urgent they would make the appointment if they were actually in this much pain every day?) It's now been more than 8 weeks while I go through all this pain while they try to find a solution. I was on Endone but they are worried that it will add to my constipation. So now I have to decide each day whether to take the pain killers and make the situation worse or cope with the pain somehow so that the stools stay softer.

On a better note, my daughter had an offer on her house yesterday. Hopefully that will now be sold so that she can get out of her debt caused by her husband's gambling. My tenant has offered to buy the unit I rent to him once finance is approved. This will give us some funds to get my daughter a home of her own to live in with my two grandchildren. We are hoping that she will move north to be near us in our new home. We have heard that one of the couples who are interested in buying our home had a contract signed by someone wanting to buy their home yesterday. This means that in 10 days time (our legal cooling off period) they will be in the market to make an offer on our place if they still want it. Please send all your prayers and thoughts that this will happen. We will have to wait for 2 weeks to hear if they will buy our house. It will be the answer to our prayers if they do.

Please keep us in your thoughts and prayers.

(((Hugs)))

Robyn

Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.Please visit our website at:http://ACES_Autoimmune.tripod.com Please visit our website at:http://ACES_Autoimmune.tripod.com Please visit our website at:http://ACES_Autoimmune.tripod.com

Guest guest
Posted

Especially with the fissures! I know that on the rare occasions that I get constipated (usually only when I've had to take more immodium than usual due to travel, etc) my hemorrhoids (which with the number of times my bowels moove a day are irritated anyway) bleed like crazy.

Kathy

RE: Robyn

((((((Robyn)))))) Surely they could find something that would help your pain.

Please visit our website at:http://ACES_Autoimmune.tripod.com Please visit our website at:http://ACES_Autoimmune.tripod.com Please visit our website at:http://ACES_Autoimmune.tripod.com

Guest guest
Posted

Thanks to everyone for their support and best wishes in the last weeks. Unfortunately the Botox hasn't worked. I've then been sent from pillar to post between specialists while they try to figure out what to do for me. Today I'm going back into hospital again for another colonoscopy to give the gastro another chance to look inside the illeum etc to see what is happening. It's 2 years since my last colonoscopy but they had hoped to delay this one until the fissures healed but nothing seems to be helping that process and I'm in a lot of pain. The decision to do the colonoscopy was made at 11am yesterday. I started the clean out routine then (even though I've been on a normal diet and medication up till breakfast!) so this process was not as easy as it should have been. They are now still uncertain as to whether I actually have Crohn's. Different specialists have different opinions on this. I've been diagnosed like this -

with Crohn's / without Crohn's since 1995 so it comes as no surprise to me that they are uncertain again. I've been saying since 1995 that there are many forms of Crohn's from A to Z and I have form Z and they only diagnose form A at present. Because of my increased symptoms in the last few years I predict that I've moved up the Crohn's spectrum to Crohn's Q. But this is difficult for doctors to admit to because they can only diagnose on current facts rather than scientific guesses. Currrently the surgeon at Sydney and the local one and my immunologist all think I have Crohn's although they can find no physical proof of it. They are basing their decision on my symptoms - going to the toilet 6-8 times every day, constant fluctuations between diahorrea/constipation, the inflammatory arthritis, the fissures in unusual positions, the blood tests etc.

If the gastro finds evidence of Crohn's today he will immediately put me on an aggressive treatment for Crohn's in the hope that it also heals the fissures. If he doesn't find Crohn's then he will hand me back to the anal surgeon to treat me. I presume this will mean a temporary bag until the fissures heal.

So please keep me in your prayers today that they find some solution to my problems and pain. I don't care what they label it just so long as they can treat it!!!

(((Hugs)))

Robyn

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Guest guest
Posted

Good luck today Robyn. I am sorry to hear that the botox did not do anything.

Hugs ((()))

Dawnrobyn bray wrote:

Thanks to everyone for their support and best wishes in the last weeks. Unfortunately the Botox hasn't worked. I've then been sent from pillar to post between specialists while they try to figure out what to do for me. Today I'm going back

Guest guest
Posted

Robyn---You're in my thoughts and prayers.

One thing with the Crohn's is that when it is active in certain places it really can't be visualized very well. My brother's most active area has been at the connection area between the large and small bowel. This last time he had his colonoscopy the guy who did it (not his usual Doc) said he was in remission, despit his currently bad symptoms...his Doc said he felt the buy who did it didn't go high enough during the colonoscopy or that the active area had moved even further up. When it is in the small bowel there isn't any way to really visualize it without surgery. I suspect that yours may be in that area also which is why they can't find the physical proof. I know you would prefer not to have the temporary bag, but it would probably be best for the fissures and the Crohn's.

Please see that someone lets us know how it is going if they hospitalize you.

((((hugs))))

Kathy

RE: Robyn

Thanks to everyone for their support and best wishes in the last weeks. Unfortunately the Botox hasn't worked. I've then been sent from pillar to post between specialists while they try to figure out what to do for me. Today I'm going back into hospital again for another colonoscopy to give the gastro another chance to look inside the illeum etc to see what is happening. It's 2 years since my last colonoscopy but they had hoped to delay this one until the fissures healed but nothing seems to be helping that process and I'm in a lot of pain. The decision to do the colonoscopy was made at 11am yesterday. I started the clean out routine then (even though I've been on a normal diet and medication up till breakfast!) so this process was not as easy as it should have been. They are now still uncertain as to whether I actually have Crohn's. Different specialists have different opinions on this. I've been diagnosed like this - with Crohn's / without Crohn's since 1995 so it comes as no surprise to me that they are uncertain again. I've been saying since 1995 that there are many forms of Crohn's from A to Z and I have form Z and they only diagnose form A at present. Because of my increased symptoms in the last few years I predict that I've moved up the Crohn's spectrum to Crohn's Q. But this is difficult for doctors to admit to because they can only diagnose on current facts rather than scientific guesses. Currrently the surgeon at Sydney and the local one and my immunologist all think I have Crohn's although they can find no physical proof of it. They are basing their decision on my symptoms - going to the toilet 6-8 times every day, constant fluctuations between diahorrea/constipation, the inflammatory arthritis, the fissures in unusual positions, the blood tests etc.

If the gastro finds evidence of Crohn's today he will immediately put me on an aggressive treatment for Crohn's in the hope that it also heals the fissures. If he doesn't find Crohn's then he will hand me back to the anal surgeon to treat me. I presume this will mean a temporary bag until the fissures heal.

So please keep me in your prayers today that they find some solution to my problems and pain. I don't care what they label it just so long as they can treat it!!!

(((Hugs)))

Robyn

Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.Please visit our website at:http://ACES_Autoimmune.tripod.com

Guest guest
Posted

I can't remember the dose you're on, but if they had you off it in the hospital and the Doc is aware and didn't say anything about tapering, I don't think you have to worry about symptoms at all. You will, like you said, have an increase of symptoms (joint pain, etc) for awhile but that should actually settle down after a few weeks...it is mostly a sort of backlash. Of course with going off all meds at once just make sure you report any different symptoms to the Doc.

It sounds like you have a great GP.

(((hugs)))

Kathy

Re: Robyn

Kathy,

I know you have to wean off pred but while I was in hospital they completely forgot to give me pred for a week. Then I was only back on it again for a few days before this episode. I didn't notice any real difference between being on the pred and off it (except for joint pains). So I've decided to go "cold turkey" and cope with the pain. What other symptoms should I be looking for by doing this?

My stools continue to be a problem but I'm experimenting with the Duphalac to try to find the right measurement to keep them under control but still to be able to leave home without worrying about where the closest toilet is.

I spoke to my GP yesterday about what I'm doing and she, bless her heart, is going to support me through my experimentation on all this. She also believes in doing what your body tells you to do. I'm really grateful for having such a wonderful GP.

(((Hugs)))

RobynKathy wrote:

Just remember to wean off the pred.

Good luck. I tried weaning off my meds, one at a time, and ending up discovering that I actually need them. Of course I did stay on my flax seed oil and glucosamine and calcium and magnesium because those are ones that I wouldn't notice a sudden change and ones that at least I know aren't doing any harm.

My brother and brother-in-law are on Crohn's meds, but I can't say that I've noticed a whole lot of difference in their symtpoms. They still get unbearable cramps and have to rush to the bathroom hoping they'll make it. Of course, so do I and the only diagnosis I have for bowels is IBS. It's been about 7 years since my last colonoscopy, but I'm not ready to give in and have another at this point. One thing is that with my pain patch at least when I go my 5-6 times a day it's usually somewhat formed.

Kathy

Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.Please visit our website at:http://ACES_Autoimmune.tripod.com

Guest guest
Posted

Thanks Kathy,

Yes I have a wonderful doctor. I really appreciate her very much.

When I was off the prednisone in hospital it was because there was a major mixup at the hospital and they just kept forgetting to give it to me. So it wasn't planned at all. My hands in particular along with my feet are really giving me a lot of pain at present. I presume this is because I'm off the pred. I don't want to go back on it. I might experiment and try some more Myfortic for a few days to see if this settles it down. Otherwise, I'll just have to put up with the pain (it matches the pain in my rear end, anyway!)

(((Hugs)))

RobynKathy wrote:

I can't remember the dose you're on, but if they had you off it in the hospital and the Doc is aware and didn't say anything about tapering, I don't think you have to worry about symptoms at all. You will, like you said, have an increase of symptoms (joint pain, etc) for awhile but that should actually settle down after a few weeks...it is mostly a sort of backlash. Of course with going off all meds at once just make sure you report any different symptoms to the Doc.

It sounds like you have a great GP.

(((hugs)))

Kathy

Re: Robyn

Kathy,

I know you have to wean off pred but while I was in hospital they completely forgot to give me pred for a week. Then I was only back on it again for a few days before this episode. I didn't notice any real difference between being on the pred and off it (except for joint pains). So I've decided to go "cold turkey" and cope with the pain. What other symptoms should I be looking for by doing this?

My stools continue to be a problem but I'm experimenting with the Duphalac to try to find the right measurement to keep them under control but still to be able to leave home without worrying about where the closest toilet is.

I spoke to my GP yesterday about what I'm doing and she, bless her heart, is going to support me through my experimentation on all this. She also believes in doing what your body tells you to do. I'm really grateful for having such a wonderful GP.

(((Hugs)))

RobynKathy wrote:

Just remember to wean off the pred.

Good luck. I tried weaning off my meds, one at a time, and ending up discovering that I actually need them. Of course I did stay on my flax seed oil and glucosamine and calcium and magnesium because those are ones that I wouldn't notice a sudden change and ones that at least I know aren't doing any harm.

My brother and brother-in-law are on Crohn's meds, but I can't say that I've noticed a whole lot of difference in their symtpoms. They still get unbearable cramps and have to rush to the bathroom hoping they'll make it. Of course, so do I and the only diagnosis I have for bowels is IBS. It's been about 7 years since my last colonoscopy, but I'm not ready to give in and have another at this point. One thing is that with my pain patch at least when I go my 5-6 times a day it's usually somewhat formed.

Kathy

Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.Please visit our website at:http://ACES_Autoimmune.tripod.com Please visit our website at:http://ACES_Autoimmune.tripod.com

Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.

Guest guest
Posted

Robyn, when you leave the house do you pack undies in your purse? I used to. Wear Depends if you have to also. It will help somewhat if you do have an accident.

I'm glad you have a terrrific doc. That's makes a big difference. The pain you're having in your hands and such could be from the inflammatory arthritis caused by the Crohns. So the prednisone is going to help with that too. Can't win for losing can ya?..lol It's a big pain in the rear....lol

Take care

xoxoxo

Shirlsrobyn bray wrote:

Thanks Kathy,

Yes I have a wonderful doctor. I really appreciate her very much.

When I was off the prednisone in hospital it was because there was a major mixup at the hospital and they just kept forgetting to give it to me. So it wasn't planned at all. My hands in particular along with my feet are really giving me a lot of pain at present. I presume this is because I'm off the pred. I don't want to go back on it. I might experiment and try some more Myfortic for a few days to see if this settles it down. Otherwise, I'll just have to put up with the pain (it matches the pain in my rear end, anyway!)

(((Hugs)))

Robyn

  • 2 months later...

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