Re: EMSAT and Soliciting

July 9, 2005

Up to the point where I read " Several attempts by The Facts to reach the

organization for comment were unsuccessful " I was only slightly annoyed by this

story.

I have had dealings withe fund raisers like this before if they are calling

X county the monies are for that county and if they are calling Y county its

the same just as in the story and it wasn't something I supported nor

tolerated in NJ and I won't do that here in Texas either.

I am a member of EMSAT and I want to know WHY we are allowing this?

So come on guys and gals of EMSAT what's the deal? AND why can't reporters

find anyone?

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

LNMolino@...

(IFW Office)

(Cell Phone)

(IFW Fax)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

July 10, 2005

>,

>

>First of all, let me say that I rarely send comments to the group but I

>could

>not let this issue pass with expressing myself.

>

>I asked the group for assistance in finding contact information for you

>last

>week. Unfortunately, my 92yo father became critically ill and my

>priorities

>shifted.

>

>I was contacted by Neel, Director of Central EMS in West Columbia

>after

>one of her hometown supporters received a call and subsequent mail packet

>from

>EMSAT's solicitors. Since her organization relies heavily on local

>donations

>this was of great concern. I too, was very concerned and I personally

>called

>the contact information on the literature only to be told that the money

>would

>be given to local " members " for education and medical instruments. When

>I called, the solicitor did not have a list of " members " and could not tell

>me

>if any medics or organizations in Brazoria County were " members " .

>

>I am concerned that your organization does not regularly monitor this

>telemarketing group. I certainly understand taking every avenue to

>raise funds

>for your organization however, this telemarketing firm is misrepresenting

>the

>utilization of these funds. Education and medical instruments for locals

>is a

>far cry from what the money will be utilized to supply for your

>organization.

>

>I have had questions for EMSAT and their philosophies in the past but

>lately I

>am very concerned with actions taken by your small group of EMS

>professionals.

>

>Lucille Maes

>

>Quoting TX1@...:

>

> > I have just read the article from the Brazoria County Facts.

> >

> > EMSAT does utilize a telemarketing group to help raise funds for the

> > association. These funds are used to pay a part time coordinator, a

> > legislative

> > liaison and the general expenses of the organization. In addition to

> > these

> > expenses, EMSAT members are provided with an accidental death

> > insurance policy should

> > the unthinkable happen. No board member receives any compensation

> > and they

> > serve at their own expense.

> >

> > This telemarketing group and others like it raise funds for Law

> > Enforcement

> > and Fire Fighters associations as well. I think I can speak for all

> > of the

> > board members when I say I wish we did not have to rely on this

> > method to raise

> > funds.

> >

> > One of our board members was made aware of this situation a couple of

> > days

> > ago. He promptly contacted the telemarketing group and asked for a

> > full review

> > of what was being told to potential donors. He expressed our

> > concerns as an

> > association that only factual information be provided. That is, that

> > funds

> > raised will be used to promote EMS and EMS related issues throughout

> > the state.

> > The president of the fund raising agency has assured us he will

> > personally

> > inservice each of the telemarketers calling on behalf of EMSAT. We

> > will also be

> > demanding a written copy of the text the telemarketers are using to

> > ensure that

> > it is appropriate. If in fact some misinformation was given by the

> > caller, I

> > offer the sincere apologies of the entire EMSAT board.

> >

> > The association that the article references as being contacted was

> > probably

> > Community Safety, the fundraising agency as they maintain a San

> >

> > address. EMSAT maintains a mail box in Austin Texas.

> >

> > I am unaware of any attempt by this paper to contact EMSAT regarding

> > this

> > situation. I have provided a couple of folks recently, at their

> > request with my

> > home, office and cell numbers as well as my email address, but I have

> > never

> > heard back from them. These numbers are being provided to

> > with

> > the Brazoria County Facts as well.

> >

> > I hope I have cleared up some of the issues brought forth. If you

> > have any

> > questions or would just like to discuss this further, please contact

> > me at one

> > of the numbers below. I will not be back in the office until Tuesday

> > so don't

> > hesitate to call my cell.

> >

> > , President

> > EMSAT

> >

> > office

> > home

> > cell

> >

July 10, 2005

I find it quite interesting that Mr. states that he provided

his contact information to several individuals and never heard back

from them. I have no idea who he provided this information to, but

it certainly was not me.

As soon as I was made aware of the call to my supporter and was able

to determine what organization was responsible, I was intent upon

giving EMSAT the benefit of the doubt and to contact someone to make

them aware of the misrepresentation that had taken place. At that

point in time, I had hoped that EMSAT was not aware of the

misleading information being provided to folks who received the

calls from this company.

When I received the packet sent to Mr. Netzel, I remembered that I

had seen a couple of posts which listed email addresses for

, so I went back in search of those so as to contact Mr.

. I was initially only able to find one of them, so sent an

email to Mr. asking if EMSAT was aware of the tactics being

used by this telephone solicitation group. The next day, I found

another email address for him so re-sent the email to that address.

To date, I have never received any response from Mr. .

I did contact another EMSAT board member, who graciously responded

promptly and stated that he was unaware that EMSAT was even using a

telephone solicitation group to raise funds, but that he would

contact Mr. and see that the misrepresentations were stopped

immediately.

Regardless of the intent of the EMSAT board, the folks that are

making the phone calls to solicit donations, as well as the folks

who answer the phone at the number listed on the " Bill " sent out to

follow up those calls, are all providing very misleading information

as to what the funds will be used for and who will benefit from

them. I personally called the number twice and asked the same

questions about whether local, Brazoria County services would

receive monies from these donations. On both occasions, I was told

that the funds would be used for " EMT training " and to

purchase " Medical Instruments " . On both occasions, the person who

answered the phone was unable to tell me what services

were " members " . I was assured, however, that there are 47,000

active members statewide and that they were sure that my local

service was probably a member, but that I would have to call my

local service to be sure.

The number that I called, as I am sure The Facts did, was the number

shown on the bill received by Mr. Netzel. It gave an " 800 " number

with an extension. There was no contact number listed to directly

contact EMSAT, but because this number was shown as the one to call

for inquiries, it seemed to be the appropriate number to call.

I also find it interesting that although Mr. Gandy stated last week

on the list, that he was no longer an EMSAT board member, the letter

included in packet, written on EMSAT letterhead, and mailed out

sometime between June 24 and July 01, lists Mr. Gandy as Vice

President. All the EMSAT board members and officers are listed, but

there is no contact information provided, other than the city in

which they apparently live.

You bet that I am disturbed by this. It just so happens that my

service had just launched a fundraising mailing that went out to

folks in our service area. I cannot help but wonder how many folks

donated monies to the EMSAT cause, believing that the monies would

benefit the local service. We rely heavily on donations and are

normally very successful due to the overwhelming support of our

community.

I am very disappointed in the method used by these folks, as well as

in the response to the problem by Mr. .

And EMSAT wonders why they have such a problem gaining

members.......this recent incident coupled with the filing of the

legislation that was not publicized until it had already been filed,

the two stakeholder meetings that were held to discuss it, in which

it seemed that the EMSAT board members only offered a multitude of

excuses for not giving EMS folks across the state the opportunity to

be made aware of it, much less comment on its content.

I am not a member of EMSAT and at this point, am feeling that my

decision NOT to join, was certainly one I don't regret! However, I

was most certainly one of the folks who attended both stakeholder

meetings concerning the legislative bill filed by EMSAT...and yes, I

was definitely one of the folks shedding " Elephant tears " !

Neel

Director

Central EMS

West Columbia, Texas

centralems@...

Office- (979)345-2390

Home- (979)345-5439

Cell- (979)481-0495

>

> >,

> >

> >First of all, let me say that I rarely send comments to the group

but I

> >could

> >not let this issue pass with expressing myself.

> >

> >I asked the group for assistance in finding contact information

for you

> >last

> >week. Unfortunately, my 92yo father became critically ill and my

> >priorities

> >shifted.

> >

> >I was contacted by Neel, Director of Central EMS in West

Columbia

> >after

> >one of her hometown supporters received a call and subsequent

mail packet

> >from

> >EMSAT's solicitors. Since her organization relies heavily on

local

> >donations

> >this was of great concern. I too, was very concerned and I

personally

> >called

> >the contact information on the literature only to be told that

the money

> >would

> >be given to local " members " for education and medical

instruments. When

> >I called, the solicitor did not have a list of " members " and

could not tell

> >me

> >if any medics or organizations in Brazoria County were " members " .

> >

> >I am concerned that your organization does not regularly monitor

this

> >telemarketing group. I certainly understand taking every avenue

to

> >raise funds

> >for your organization however, this telemarketing firm is

misrepresenting

> >the

> >utilization of these funds. Education and medical instruments

for locals

> >is a

> >far cry from what the money will be utilized to supply for your

> >organization.

> >

> >I have had questions for EMSAT and their philosophies in the past

but

> >lately I

> >am very concerned with actions taken by your small group of EMS

> >professionals.

> >

> >Lucille Maes

> >

> >Quoting TX1@a...:

> >

> > > I have just read the article from the Brazoria County Facts.

> > >

> > > EMSAT does utilize a telemarketing group to help raise funds

for the

> > > association. These funds are used to pay a part time

coordinator, a

> > > legislative

> > > liaison and the general expenses of the organization. In

addition to

> > > these

> > > expenses, EMSAT members are provided with an accidental death

> > > insurance policy should

> > > the unthinkable happen. No board member receives any

compensation

> > > and they

> > > serve at their own expense.

> > >

> > > This telemarketing group and others like it raise funds for Law

> > > Enforcement

> > > and Fire Fighters associations as well. I think I can speak

for all

> > > of the

> > > board members when I say I wish we did not have to rely on this

> > > method to raise

> > > funds.

> > >

> > > One of our board members was made aware of this situation a

couple of

> > > days

> > > ago. He promptly contacted the telemarketing group and asked

for a

> > > full review

> > > of what was being told to potential donors. He expressed our

> > > concerns as an

> > > association that only factual information be provided. That

is, that

> > > funds

> > > raised will be used to promote EMS and EMS related issues

throughout

> > > the state.

> > > The president of the fund raising agency has assured us he will

> > > personally

> > > inservice each of the telemarketers calling on behalf of

EMSAT. We

> > > will also be

> > > demanding a written copy of the text the telemarketers are

using to

> > > ensure that

> > > it is appropriate. If in fact some misinformation was given

by the

> > > caller, I

> > > offer the sincere apologies of the entire EMSAT board.

> > >

> > > The association that the article references as being contacted

was

> > > probably

> > > Community Safety, the fundraising agency as they maintain a San

> > >

> > > address. EMSAT maintains a mail box in Austin Texas.

> > >

> > > I am unaware of any attempt by this paper to contact EMSAT

regarding

> > > this

> > > situation. I have provided a couple of folks recently, at

their

> > > request with my

> > > home, office and cell numbers as well as my email address, but

I have

> > > never

> > > heard back from them. These numbers are being provided to

> > > with

> > > the Brazoria County Facts as well.

> > >

> > > I hope I have cleared up some of the issues brought forth. If

you

> > > have any

> > > questions or would just like to discuss this further, please

contact

> > > me at one

> > > of the numbers below. I will not be back in the office until

Tuesday

> > > so don't

> > > hesitate to call my cell.

> > >

> > > , President

> > > EMSAT

> > >

> > > office

> > > home

> > > cell

> > >

July 10, 2005

In a message dated 7/9/2005 11:50:05 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

TX1@... writes:

I hope I have cleared up some of the issues brought forth. If you have any

questions or would just like to discuss this further, please contact me at

one

of the numbers below. I will not be back in the office until Tuesday so

don't

hesitate to call my cell.

,

Glad that you and the rest of the BOD is on top of this. I have never liked

these solicitors but at the same time I understand EMSAT's need for monies to

do the tings that EMSAT wants to do for and on behalf of EMS in Texas.

I have said this to many persons privately and publicly but I will say it

again as it needs to be said. I am of the belief that the men and women who have

milked EMSAT to this point have nothing but the best interest of the street

level EMS Provider in mind. Not only am I sure that none has had a personal

gain from their actions but rather have likely reached into their own pockets

at times to fund such endeavors.

THE CHALLANGE IS THEN TO THE EMS COMMUNITY IN TEXAS. IF WE WANT AN

ORGNINZATION LIKE EMSAT TAKING THE STREET CAES TO THE FOLKS IN AUSTIN AND

REPRESNEWTING US IN OTHER AREAS WE NEED TO SUNPPORT SAME BY JOINING SUCH AN

ORGINIZATION.

If Texas has 25,000 certified Providers there should be 25,000 members of

EMSAT. If EMSAT had one 10 th of that number I doubt they would use such

solicitors for funds.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

LNMolino@...

(IFW Office)

(Cell Phone)

(IFW Fax)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

July 10, 2005

> This telemarketing group and others like it raise funds for Law Enforcement

> and Fire Fighters associations as well. I think I can speak for all of the

> board members when I say I wish we did not have to rely on this method to

raise

> funds.

If EMSAT were valuable to Texas EMS, it wouldn't " have to " resort to

this for funding. To date, EMSAT has not proven itself valuable to

EMS in Texas. I challenge everyone to ask 10 co-workers, point blank,

" What has EMSAT done for you? " If you get an answer beyond " who?

what? what are you talking about? " I'll be suprised - even more so if

that person can name ONE tangible benefit that EMSAT has brought to

their lives, careers or situation(s).

> We will also be

> demanding a written copy of the text the telemarketers are using to ensure

that

> it is appropriate. If in fact some misinformation was given by the caller, I

> offer the sincere apologies of the entire EMSAT board.

Was the telemarketing script not reviewed previously? Was oversight

not accounted for? Or, were the dollar signs still flashing in the

collective eyes of the board while the ink was still wet on the

contract?

> The association that the article references as being contacted was probably

> Community Safety, the fundraising agency as they maintain a San

> address. EMSAT maintains a mail box in Austin Texas.

So the fundraising company has a " shell " address in Texas, so it can

appear they're local? Wow, that spells " legit " in my book...

> I am unaware of any attempt by this paper to contact EMSAT regarding this

> situation.

Where does EMSAT's contact number go? Who(m) does it ring to? For

less than $10/month, EMSAT could at least set up a virtual voicemail

box somewhere and check it regularly. Kinda hard to be an effective

voice for EMS in Texas when those EMSAT purports to represent can't

even reach the group to give their feedback. Then again, EMSAT hasn't

ever chosen to be about feedback... how long and how hard did they

fight against Dr. Bledsoe, a nationally recognized author and speaker,

having a voice in EMSAT (being relegated to a non-voting membership

because his paramedic has expired, but was still a doctor)? How long

has EMSAT been in existence and still refused to even consider having

local chapters that would be able to work on local, regional and

statewide issues, and provide a direct mechanism to both get and

receive feedback from medics who need their representation in the

first place? How much longer will EMSAT claim to represent Texas EMS

without actually making an effort to figure out how Texas EMS wants to

be represented, by actually CONTACTING each person (or even each

SERVICE) in Texas? How long will EMSAT choose to be continually

ineffective, all the while collecting cash from shady telemarketing

that plays on people's innate naivete about EMS in general, then spend

that money not on increasing awareness of EMS in Texas but on

special-purpose projects that haven't started from a consensus in the

first place? How long?

> I hope I have cleared up some of the issues brought forth. If you have any

> questions or would just like to discuss this further, please contact me at one

> of the numbers below. I will not be back in the office until Tuesday so don't

> hesitate to call my cell.

While I appreciate the giving out of phone numbers, etc., what needs

to happen is EMSAT needs to come up with a concise, cogent position

statement about itself as a potential representative organization and

deliver that message to every EMS person and service in Texas. The

first objection will likely be that it would cost too much, but I'd

say that cost isn't important until EMSAT can figure out who THEY are,

who they believe EMS in Texas is, and how THEY can represent THEM in a

way that meets " THEM'S " needs...

To date (5 years now?) that's NEVER happened. Rather than be

effective, EMSAT has chosen to languish on the shady side of the fence

- doing things to make themselves FEEL effective without having to

actually take the initiative and effort required to BE effective.

Mike :/

July 10, 2005

> I have had dealings withe fund raisers like this before if they are calling

> X county the monies are for that county and if they are calling Y county its

> the same just as in the story and it wasn't something I supported nor

> tolerated in NJ and I won't do that here in Texas either.

I like the " we represent 47,000 EMS personnel in Texas. " Where would

a telemarketing company have gotten that number EXCEPT from EMSAT in

the FIRST place?

> I am a member of EMSAT and I want to know WHY we are allowing this?

Because EMSAT prefers to get easy money and piddle around, trying to

make a place for itself, rather than actually building a case for why

EMS in Texas needs EMSAT (note: I did NOT say " why EMS in Texas needs

REPRESENTATION " - I said EMSAT. To date, EMSAT has NEVER proven

itself of ANY value to the mainstream EMS provider, much less the EMS

provider affiliated with any particular type of EMS service.).

> So come on guys and gals of EMSAT what's the deal? AND why can't reporters

> find anyone?

Because EMSAT has no dedicated central point of contact. Not even a

voicemail box.

Mike

July 10, 2005

>

> I have said this to many persons privately and publicly but I will say it

> again as it needs to be said. I am of the belief that the men and women who

have

> milked EMSAT to this point have nothing but the best interest of the street

> level EMS Provider in mind. Not only am I sure that none has had a personal

> gain from their actions but rather have likely reached into their own pockets

> at times to fund such endeavors.

Sure, but that's not they point. To date, how much has EMSAT

collected, IN TOTAL, from these types of telemarketing activities?

What TANGIBLE BENEFIT has EMSAT provided the EMS community with these

funds? How many in the EMS community (outside THIS list) even know

EMSAT exists? Of those, how many can name ONE THING that EMSAT has

ACTUALLY DONE for them, or that benefits them? I'd wager that's a

number pretty close to zero.

> THE CHALLANGE IS THEN TO THE EMS COMMUNITY IN TEXAS. IF WE WANT AN

> ORGNINZATION LIKE EMSAT TAKING THE STREET CAES TO THE FOLKS IN AUSTIN AND

> REPRESNEWTING US IN OTHER AREAS WE NEED TO SUNPPORT SAME BY JOINING SUCH AN

ORGINIZATION.

No, we need an organization to take on a definition of what it intends

to support, and to get buy-in on that from a potential membership.

Just willy-nilly joining, no matter how many times someone says that

we should, is NOT the right approach. We need to tell EMSAT that we

WOULD join, and WOULD pay, if they could define who they are, what

they stand for, and HOW they'll support and benefit the individual

provider, service, etc. Until that happens, EMSAT is *WORTHLESS*.

The work folks have put IN isn't without value, but the PRODUCT

they've produced most certainly is.

> If Texas has 25,000 certified Providers there should be 25,000 members of

> EMSAT. If EMSAT had one 10 th of that number I doubt they would use such

> solicitors for funds.

Agreed. Once 10% of the EMS providers in Texas sense that EMSAT is

worthwhile and beneficial, they'll get 10% membership. And more, and

more, and more...

Mike :/

July 10, 2005

I usually lurk around here, but I had to make a

comment on this one.

First off, I have never joined EMSAT for several

reasons. Primarily because it's an organization I

know very little about. I have seen the occasional

post about them, or by their so called board members.

I have never received any information from them,

telling me what I would TANGIBLY RECIEVE as a benefit

of being a member. What would I *receive* as a

member? There was a mention in some post about death

benefits. Yay. What about malpractice insurance?

Legal representation? Discounted CE? Conference

admissions? Sponsorships? Scholarship funds?

Community outreach?... I could go on.

I know someone who sent in membership dues, and had

to threaten legal action because he never even

received his MEMBERHIP PACKET! What a rip off. If

EMSAT isn't even responsible enough to send a MEMBER

his information, how can I expect them to provide any

meaningful benefit to me? It certainly also makes me

wonder what they're doing with the money, if they

can't afford to send a member his paperwork.

As a matter of fact, they have never sent out mailings

to prospective members, never recruited members at the

local level, never put on a presentation to my

department about their services and benefits, or

otherwise made it desirable to join. These things

would be so EASY to do. TDSHS has the addresses of

ALL certified persons in the state, I'm sure it would

be no problem to obtain them, if the purpose was to

educate, inform, or otherwise further the cohesiveness

of the EMS community in the state. God knows we need

something.

To me, they are a faceless organization who would take

my money and I'd never see it again. I am not talking

about a few bits of legislation either. I didn't get

a flyer from EMSAT explaining what the legislation

was, where anyone could be reached for input /

comments, or the date of filing. This was poorly

managed, and while it's been said that there was no

*intention* of deception by filing on the last day, it

does look suspicious.

The EMSAT " board " members claim that they wouldn't

have to resort to using telemarketers if they had more

membership, but as with any organization, it has to be

worth people's money to join. If they're not

convinced that they will get their money's worth out

of the organization, they won't join. If they get

good information, good representation, and good

service, they will join. I think this point

illustrates itself. People would join if it were

worth it. It just isn't.

I tried looking up EMSAT's web address, figuring there

would be some useful information there, but I couldn't

even find it on a Google search, and had to comb the

TDSHS website for even a single sentence mention.

Even then, the web address was not a link, but added

as an afterthought. I checked it out, and found the

site to be " under construction " . How long has EMSAT

been formed? And how difficult is it to post up a

website? Even some basic contact information would

have been good, but they couldn't even put that up.

Any organization that refuses to put up multiple forms

of contact information where the public can easily

access it seems shady to me. Any organization that

only has a P.O. Box, and not a physical address seems

shady as well. The BBB even advocates against dealing

with businesses and organizations who operate this

way.

Besides, it appears that the board members don't

communicate amongst each other well, if the one

contacted didn't even *know* about the telemarketers.

When I was on the local FD board, this would have been

the sort of thing we would have had to vote on before

initiating. Someone is spending money of their own

accord, without contacting the other board members or

getting it put to a vote. I smell deception folks.

Here is interesting information I found on the BBB

site, of which EMSAT is not a member. I did extensive

searching of their local and national database. I'd

be very curious to know if EMSAT is following all of

the standards listed... ?

http://www.give.org/standards/index.asp

Here are some links to various organizations I have

found: (Check out the Member Benefits portions of the

pages, some are fairly impressive.)

http://www.cleat.org/

http://www.dpsoa.com/ (BBB Member)

http://www.tmpa.org/

http://www.txsheriffs.org/ (BBB Member)

....and just so you know I am not just looking up Law

Enforcement links, here are some of the first 10 hits

from Google when I typed in " EMS Association " ... (It's

getting late, I didn't check their BBB status.)

http://www.wisconsinems.com/

http://www.heds.org/nnaemsa.htm

http://www.scemsa.com/

http://www.ndemsa.org/

http://www.kemsa.org/

Now take a look at the pathetic, " under construction "

EMSAT site... and you wonder why people won't join??

Can it be more obvious??

http://www.emsatoftx.org/

Seems to be only a very poor keyword search engine.

Is that what I want representing me? Uh.. no... I'll

let you form your own opinions...

-Meris :-|

__________________________________________________

July 10, 2005

Thanks for doing your homework Meris. I think what you have found is sad but

true. We need something else to represent us, here in Texas.

McGee, EMT-I

Walks Alone wrote:

I usually lurk around here, but I had to make a

comment on this one.

First off, I have never joined EMSAT for several

reasons. Primarily because it's an organization I

know very little about. I have seen the occasional

post about them, or by their so called board members.

I have never received any information from them,

telling me what I would TANGIBLY RECIEVE as a benefit

of being a member. What would I *receive* as a

member? There was a mention in some post about death

benefits. Yay. What about malpractice insurance?

Legal representation? Discounted CE? Conference

admissions? Sponsorships? Scholarship funds?

Community outreach?... I could go on.

I know someone who sent in membership dues, and had

to threaten legal action because he never even

received his MEMBERHIP PACKET! What a rip off. If

EMSAT isn't even responsible enough to send a MEMBER

his information, how can I expect them to provide any

meaningful benefit to me? It certainly also makes me

wonder what they're doing with the money, if they

can't afford to send a member his paperwork.

As a matter of fact, they have never sent out mailings

to prospective members, never recruited members at the

local level, never put on a presentation to my

department about their services and benefits, or

otherwise made it desirable to join. These things

would be so EASY to do. TDSHS has the addresses of

ALL certified persons in the state, I'm sure it would

be no problem to obtain them, if the purpose was to

educate, inform, or otherwise further the cohesiveness

of the EMS community in the state. God knows we need

something.

To me, they are a faceless organization who would take

my money and I'd never see it again. I am not talking

about a few bits of legislation either. I didn't get

a flyer from EMSAT explaining what the legislation

was, where anyone could be reached for input /

comments, or the date of filing. This was poorly

managed, and while it's been said that there was no

*intention* of deception by filing on the last day, it

does look suspicious.

The EMSAT " board " members claim that they wouldn't

have to resort to using telemarketers if they had more

membership, but as with any organization, it has to be

worth people's money to join. If they're not

convinced that they will get their money's worth out

of the organization, they won't join. If they get

good information, good representation, and good

service, they will join. I think this point

illustrates itself. People would join if it were

worth it. It just isn't.

I tried looking up EMSAT's web address, figuring there

would be some useful information there, but I couldn't

even find it on a Google search, and had to comb the

TDSHS website for even a single sentence mention.

Even then, the web address was not a link, but added

as an afterthought. I checked it out, and found the

site to be " under construction " . How long has EMSAT

been formed? And how difficult is it to post up a

website? Even some basic contact information would

have been good, but they couldn't even put that up.

Any organization that refuses to put up multiple forms

of contact information where the public can easily

access it seems shady to me. Any organization that

only has a P.O. Box, and not a physical address seems

shady as well. The BBB even advocates against dealing

with businesses and organizations who operate this

way.

Besides, it appears that the board members don't

communicate amongst each other well, if the one

contacted didn't even *know* about the telemarketers.

When I was on the local FD board, this would have been

the sort of thing we would have had to vote on before

initiating. Someone is spending money of their own

accord, without contacting the other board members or

getting it put to a vote. I smell deception folks.

Here is interesting information I found on the BBB

site, of which EMSAT is not a member. I did extensive

searching of their local and national database. I'd

be very curious to know if EMSAT is following all of

the standards listed... ?

http://www.give.org/standards/index.asp

Here are some links to various organizations I have

found: (Check out the Member Benefits portions of the

pages, some are fairly impressive.)

http://www.cleat.org/

http://www.dpsoa.com/ (BBB Member)

http://www.tmpa.org/

http://www.txsheriffs.org/ (BBB Member)

....and just so you know I am not just looking up Law

Enforcement links, here are some of the first 10 hits

from Google when I typed in " EMS Association " ... (It's

getting late, I didn't check their BBB status.)

http://www.wisconsinems.com/

http://www.heds.org/nnaemsa.htm

http://www.scemsa.com/

http://www.ndemsa.org/

http://www.kemsa.org/

Now take a look at the pathetic, " under construction "

EMSAT site... and you wonder why people won't join??

Can it be more obvious??

http://www.emsatoftx.org/

Seems to be only a very poor keyword search engine.

Is that what I want representing me? Uh.. no... I'll

let you form your own opinions...

-Meris :-|

__________________________________________________

July 10, 2005

Although EMSAT is not working right for all, it created a foothold in the

legislature and is starting to get thinks together.

Instead of the usuall complaining in the EMS industry, join EMSAT it is not

that expensive the become a board member and fix it.

As in a discussion I had today with other members in EMS there seams to be a

small set of people involved in trying to improve EMS while everyone else

complains.

Creating another organization will not help. Join EMSAT and help fix it.

As an Engineering manager a many years back I had a picture of a locomotive

in my office The caption said get on the train or get out of the way.

Where were you at EMStock to help generate scholarships, whay have you not

attended an EMSAT meeting and voiced your opinion.

I am worjking on my masters, working and volunteering. I do not have time

but at least I along with several others are trying with EMStock to help

improve EMS.

It is easy to complain but harder to fix.

Ed Walsh LP

Re: Re: EMSAT and Soliciting

> Thanks for doing your homework Meris. I think what you have found is sad

> but true. We need something else to represent us, here in Texas.

>

> McGee, EMT-I

>

> Walks Alone wrote:

> I usually lurk around here, but I had to make a

> comment on this one.

> First off, I have never joined EMSAT for several

> reasons. Primarily because it's an organization I

> know very little about. I have seen the occasional

> post about them, or by their so called board members.

> I have never received any information from them,

> telling me what I would TANGIBLY RECIEVE as a benefit

> of being a member. What would I *receive* as a

> member? There was a mention in some post about death

> benefits. Yay. What about malpractice insurance?

> Legal representation? Discounted CE? Conference

> admissions? Sponsorships? Scholarship funds?

> Community outreach?... I could go on.

>

> I know someone who sent in membership dues, and had

> to threaten legal action because he never even

> received his MEMBERHIP PACKET! What a rip off. If

> EMSAT isn't even responsible enough to send a MEMBER

> his information, how can I expect them to provide any

> meaningful benefit to me? It certainly also makes me

> wonder what they're doing with the money, if they

> can't afford to send a member his paperwork.

>

> As a matter of fact, they have never sent out mailings

> to prospective members, never recruited members at the

> local level, never put on a presentation to my

> department about their services and benefits, or

> otherwise made it desirable to join. These things

> would be so EASY to do. TDSHS has the addresses of

> ALL certified persons in the state, I'm sure it would

> be no problem to obtain them, if the purpose was to

> educate, inform, or otherwise further the cohesiveness

> of the EMS community in the state. God knows we need

> something.

>

> To me, they are a faceless organization who would take

> my money and I'd never see it again. I am not talking

> about a few bits of legislation either. I didn't get

> a flyer from EMSAT explaining what the legislation

> was, where anyone could be reached for input /

> comments, or the date of filing. This was poorly

> managed, and while it's been said that there was no

> *intention* of deception by filing on the last day, it

> does look suspicious.

>

> The EMSAT " board " members claim that they wouldn't

> have to resort to using telemarketers if they had more

> membership, but as with any organization, it has to be

> worth people's money to join. If they're not

> convinced that they will get their money's worth out

> of the organization, they won't join. If they get

> good information, good representation, and good

> service, they will join. I think this point

> illustrates itself. People would join if it were

> worth it. It just isn't.

>

> I tried looking up EMSAT's web address, figuring there

> would be some useful information there, but I couldn't

> even find it on a Google search, and had to comb the

> TDSHS website for even a single sentence mention.

> Even then, the web address was not a link, but added

> as an afterthought. I checked it out, and found the

> site to be " under construction " . How long has EMSAT

> been formed? And how difficult is it to post up a

> website? Even some basic contact information would

> have been good, but they couldn't even put that up.

> Any organization that refuses to put up multiple forms

> of contact information where the public can easily

> access it seems shady to me. Any organization that

> only has a P.O. Box, and not a physical address seems

> shady as well. The BBB even advocates against dealing

> with businesses and organizations who operate this

> way.

>

> Besides, it appears that the board members don't

> communicate amongst each other well, if the one

> contacted didn't even *know* about the telemarketers.

> When I was on the local FD board, this would have been

> the sort of thing we would have had to vote on before

> initiating. Someone is spending money of their own

> accord, without contacting the other board members or

> getting it put to a vote. I smell deception folks.

>

> Here is interesting information I found on the BBB

> site, of which EMSAT is not a member. I did extensive

> searching of their local and national database. I'd

> be very curious to know if EMSAT is following all of

> the standards listed... ?

>

> http://www.give.org/standards/index.asp

>

> Here are some links to various organizations I have

> found: (Check out the Member Benefits portions of the

> pages, some are fairly impressive.)

>

> http://www.cleat.org/

>

> http://www.dpsoa.com/ (BBB Member)

>

> http://www.tmpa.org/

>

> http://www.txsheriffs.org/ (BBB Member)

>

> ...and just so you know I am not just looking up Law

> Enforcement links, here are some of the first 10 hits

> from Google when I typed in " EMS Association " ... (It's

> getting late, I didn't check their BBB status.)

>

> http://www.wisconsinems.com/

>

> http://www.heds.org/nnaemsa.htm

>

> http://www.scemsa.com/

>

> http://www.ndemsa.org/

>

> http://www.kemsa.org/

>

> Now take a look at the pathetic, " under construction "

> EMSAT site... and you wonder why people won't join??

> Can it be more obvious??

>

> http://www.emsatoftx.org/

>

> Seems to be only a very poor keyword search engine.

> Is that what I want representing me? Uh.. no... I'll

> let you form your own opinions...

>

> -Meris :-|

>

> __________________________________________________

>

July 10, 2005

Mike,

I submit to you that there have been ways that EMSAT have been valuable and

beneficial to EMS personnel.

Once again this legislative session, there was a bill filed (HB 14)

regarding EMS drawing blood for DWI. EMSAT played a part in helping to keep

this bill from becoming law. Did this not benefit EMS personnel?

Prior to last session (2003), EMSAT polled its members, and one result of

that poll was that they wanted an EMS License Plate. It was approved during

that session. Did this benefit EMS personnel?

Sometime in the last 2 years, EMSAT began providing its members with life

insurance policies as a part of their membership. Its may not be a large

policy, but I submit to you that it is a benefit.

These are not the only examples, simply the ones that come to mind so late

in the day.

Regarding the telemarketing script: yes, we reviewed and approved the script

that they use, but not THAT script! I can assure you that the points

mentioned in the article and by Ms. Neel and others were NOT on the approved

script. I am furious and plan to find out exactly what happened and why

they are not using the approved script.

During my time as an EMSAT board member, only one member talked to me about

a problem, and I called him to help resolve his concerns. Perhaps no one

knows how to contact me, and for that I apologize. I will list my contact

information below.

To all: if you think EMSAT is useless and will never be anything but a

hindrance to Texas EMS, I sincerely encourage you to continue your efforts

against us. However, of you think EMSAT could be an asset, if only it would

change X or do Y, then I invite you to work with us- join and help us to do

the right thing. None of us purport to know what is right and we honestly

welcome constructive help and commentary. We need the input.

Thank you for tolerating my wandering thoughts.

Sincerely,

Randell Pitts

EMSAT Board Secretary

C:

H:

July 10, 2005

> Although EMSAT is not working right for all, it created a foothold in the

> legislature and is starting to get thinks together.

Which things? Web site? Contact information? Telemarketing

pseudo-scams? Which things is EMSAT getting together?

> Instead of the usuall complaining in the EMS industry, join EMSAT it is not

> that expensive the become a board member and fix it.

Why is the standard refrain on the " pro EMSAT " side of this topic

" just join? " Doesn't that begin to sound " cultish " after a while?

> As in a discussion I had today with other members in EMS there seams to be a

> small set of people involved in trying to improve EMS while everyone else

> complains.

Yes, and that small set would be larger if EMSAT cared to be effective

in delivering a message of change. Not the PEOPLE involved in EMSAT,

whom I don't individually doubt - but EMSAT as a collective

organization (and board). EMSAT, to date, has NOT delivered a cogent

message to the EMS community of what EMSAT proposes to do, how, and

for whom.

> Creating another organization will not help. Join EMSAT and help fix it.

Define EMSAT with strong leadership that can communicate a sincere

message and you might get people to consider supporting it.

> As an Engineering manager a many years back I had a picture of a locomotive

> in my office The caption said get on the train or get out of the way.

Cute. Was it beside the one that said " I think I can I think I can? "

Cute pictures and warm-fuzzy sayings aren't what EMSAT needs to

deliver right now.

> Where were you at EMStock to help generate scholarships, whay have you not

> attended an EMSAT meeting and voiced your opinion.

EMStock? TEMSF suffers from the same problems, in part because it's

run by a lot of the same people. Initially, the right ideas - but an

absolute unwilingness to communicate them! Why isn't EMStock 2006

being talked about NOW? Being talked up NOW? Being advertised NOW?

Why does TEMSF refuse to put the work into EMStock that would make it

successful (or is that another thread alltogether)? Has EMStock EVER

made a profit? How much has it generated for scholarship funds? I

know their treasurer is (was?) on this list...

I went to EMSAT meetings. I made suggestions. I was secondary in

importance to the all-important telemarketing discussion. I watched

those around me get their thoughts and ideas trampled by the

discussion of the telemarketing dollar - and watched those who opposed

telemarketing get, for lack of a better term, shouted down and

derided. You can't possibly convince me that EMSAT didn't know that

this was shady - I was THERE as a member who voted AGAINST it every

time I was asked. I was THERE to WITNESS the discussions about it,

and to hear Bledsoe get told that what he had to say didn't matter

because he wasn't a medic and didn't get a vote. I was there. Where

were you?

> I am worjking on my masters, working and volunteering. I do not have time

> but at least I along with several others are trying with EMStock to help

> improve EMS.

Agreed. The people, individually, seem to have the best intentions.

As a group, though, there's no leadership and never has been. No

leadership, no message. No message, no purpose. No purpose, no

membership. No membership, no money. And that's EMSAT in a nutshell,

folks.

Mike :/

July 10, 2005

Good job Randell. Again in this discussion all I have heard is " what has it

done for me " , but I go back to JFK who said " Ask not what can this country

do for me but what can I do for this country " . To translate that " Ask not

what has EMSAT done for me but what can I do for EMSAT, or even the EMS

community, to help the EMS community? " I wan to add other than complaining.

EMSAT has proven valuable several times. There are over 30,000 EMS

personnel in Texas and even at bulk rate prices it would be over $6000 to

send postcards via snail mail.

Out of the 30,000 people certified or licensed in EMS how many are on this

listserver? How many go to the conference? How many get and read the Texas

EMS magazine or JEMS? Who is representing the folks in west Texas where

there are capitols to several other states that are closer to them than

Austin?

As usual the 20% is doing 80% of the work and 20% are sitting on their

laurels and complaining. It also appears that all of the people complaining

have not sat down and really investigated EMSAT or have bones to pick with

either board members.

This is the same thing I tell people who are upset with the government. Get

involved. Do not sit around and complain.

EMSAT has also failed to let people know what it has done or what it plans

to do. Their web site needs to provide information about the EMS community,

about EMSAT, what is going on around the state, the country, etc. Also they

need to help keep Texas informed on the impact the Scope of Practice and the

status.

The Mr. using your analogy, if DPSOA was not valuable to DPS officers

then why do I get calls twice a year from DPSOA soliciting funds. Why do

they not fund it themselves? I ask you what have you done for EMS lately?

I have also worked with telemarketing firms in the past and depending on the

contract they get paid a percentage of what they bring in or they get paid

by the call. I can not count the number of times while working at Austin

EMS that I went to Sprints offices to work on their workers. The

telemarketing employees are bullied by their bosses to get the money so they

can get bonuses and I guarantee that many times they do not follow the

approved scripts.

EMS is loosing people left and right to nursing and other endeavors. Unless

there is an organization like EMSAT with the support and backing of the EMS

community nothing will ever get done.

I joined EMSAT last year to benefit the EMS community not to benefit me. I

am not on the board nor do I plan to even try for a few years until I

complete my Masters.

I personally have very little to complain at EMSAT about, so to the board

get the web site fixed and keep up the good work.

Ed Walsh

RE: EMSAT and Soliciting

> Mike,

>

> I submit to you that there have been ways that EMSAT have been valuable

> and

> beneficial to EMS personnel.

>

> Once again this legislative session, there was a bill filed (HB 14)

> regarding EMS drawing blood for DWI. EMSAT played a part in helping to

> keep

> this bill from becoming law. Did this not benefit EMS personnel?

>

> Prior to last session (2003), EMSAT polled its members, and one result of

> that poll was that they wanted an EMS License Plate. It was approved

> during

> that session. Did this benefit EMS personnel?

>

> Sometime in the last 2 years, EMSAT began providing its members with life

> insurance policies as a part of their membership. Its may not be a large

> policy, but I submit to you that it is a benefit.

>

> These are not the only examples, simply the ones that come to mind so late

> in the day.

>

> Regarding the telemarketing script: yes, we reviewed and approved the

> script

> that they use, but not THAT script! I can assure you that the points

> mentioned in the article and by Ms. Neel and others were NOT on the

> approved

> script. I am furious and plan to find out exactly what happened and why

> they are not using the approved script.

>

> During my time as an EMSAT board member, only one member talked to me

> about

> a problem, and I called him to help resolve his concerns. Perhaps no one

> knows how to contact me, and for that I apologize. I will list my contact

> information below.

>

> To all: if you think EMSAT is useless and will never be anything but a

> hindrance to Texas EMS, I sincerely encourage you to continue your efforts

> against us. However, of you think EMSAT could be an asset, if only it

> would

> change X or do Y, then I invite you to work with us- join and help us to

> do

> the right thing. None of us purport to know what is right and we honestly

> welcome constructive help and commentary. We need the input.

>

> Thank you for tolerating my wandering thoughts.

>

> Sincerely,

>

> Randell Pitts

>

> EMSAT Board Secretary

>

> C:

>

> H:

>

July 10, 2005

>

> I submit to you that there have been ways that EMSAT have been valuable and

> beneficial to EMS personnel.

List them. Tangible benefits, or things you can prove EMSAT affected

- with the proof(s).

> Once again this legislative session, there was a bill filed (HB 14)

> regarding EMS drawing blood for DWI. EMSAT played a part in helping to keep

> this bill from becoming law. Did this not benefit EMS personnel?

What, EXACTLY (with details) did EMSAT do. Who will provide backing

to your statement that EMSAT had effect? And did the bill benefit EMS

personnel? What were the views of EMS personnel around the state (not

just on this list)? Does EMSAT have the poll results they took of

their members? Are the 50 poeple who belong to EMSAT enough to

qualify as a representative sample? Does EMSAT have poll numbers from

the rest of the folks in EMS whom they don't represent? And how did

those numbers look?

> Prior to last session (2003), EMSAT polled its members, and one result of

> that poll was that they wanted an EMS License Plate. It was approved during

> that session. Did this benefit EMS personnel?

I don't know. Did it? You're obviously claiming it did. If so, how?

And whom? And again, were EMSAT's 50 members a true representative

sample of EMS in Texas? How would you know? What did you compare

their opinions against?

> Sometime in the last 2 years, EMSAT began providing its members with life

> insurance policies as a part of their membership. Its may not be a large

> policy, but I submit to you that it is a benefit.

Is it needed? Is it needed more than training, or other things? Or

was it low-hanging fruit that money was spent on that could have been

better spent providing a clear, concise message with the goal of

attracting more members and bringing in more income because it was

earned and deserved?

> Regarding the telemarketing script: yes, we reviewed and approved the script

> that they use, but not THAT script!

Then where did they get THAT script, and why hasn't their contract

been IMMEDIATELY cancelled and an attorney contacted to file suit

against them for damages?

> I can assure you that the points

> mentioned in the article and by Ms. Neel and others were NOT on the approved

> script. I am furious and plan to find out exactly what happened and why

> they are not using the approved script.

You may, but what about the entire board? You're only one voice...

and my experience with EMSAT says that if you oppose telemarketing

money, you're not worth listening to.

> During my time as an EMSAT board member, only one member talked to me about

> a problem, and I called him to help resolve his concerns. Perhaps no one

> knows how to contact me, and for that I apologize. I will list my contact

> information below.

Better yet, provide a single point of contact that's always reachable

for EMSAT as an organization.

> To all: if you think EMSAT is useless and will never be anything but a

> hindrance to Texas EMS, I sincerely encourage you to continue your efforts

> against us. However, of you think EMSAT could be an asset, if only it would

> change X or do Y, then I invite you to work with us- join and help us to do

> the right thing. None of us purport to know what is right and we honestly

> welcome constructive help and commentary. We need the input.

Could?

Should have been.

Now, a " has-been " with no credibility. The RIGHT thing to do is admit

failure, close up shop, and put your brainpower back in with the rest

of us in figuring out what we REALLY need to do. Perhaps " a voice for

EMS in Texas " is something that GETAC, as an advisory council, should

consider? Perhaps GETAC should set up a task force, with public

meetings and public input, to determine the best, most effective way

for EMS in Texas to represent itself - to citizens, to the legislature

- and to each other.

It seems that there's a good regional problem solving methodology in

place with DSHS and the RAC's (better than anything else out there

right now). And it seems that GETAC is an accepted forum for

discussing EMS issues at a statewide level - and is public, open,

accessible and fair - if not always agreed with - at the very least

nobody can say that they didn't get a chance to give input and be

heard.

So, without any fanfare, here it is:

I propose (and would ask the members of GETAC on this list) that GETAC

consider creating a task force, limited in scope, duration and

mission, to create a framework for a self-representative body of

individual EMS providers in Texas. I propose that this task force set

forth an initial framework of ideas and take public comments on said

framework, developing an " architecture and plan " for representation of

individual EMS providers in Texas. And I propose that GETAC define

the initial stakeholders with regards to individual representation -

and go from there.

As for the " put up or shut up part " - here it is. I'll volunteer to

be on this task force. In fact (with the appropriate discussion and

approval from GETAC representatives and the public), I'd even be

willing to " chair " (is that the right word? I honestly don't know...)

this project if asked (and can provide a resume of similar prior

engagements). But at the very least - I'll commit to showing up and

providing input - whether or not I'm on the task force (if it

happens).

Mike , LP

July 10, 2005

Randall,

Just one point of clarification...HB14 was passed out of committee late in the

session and didn't make it on the calendar before the session was over. If

anyone got the bill killed, it was the TAA and their lobbyist....although I do

have to say you were there to testify against it....I remember as I was the only

EMS person who showed up to testify for it.

Dudley

RE: EMSAT and Soliciting

Mike,

I submit to you that there have been ways that EMSAT have been valuable and

beneficial to EMS personnel.

Once again this legislative session, there was a bill filed (HB 14)

regarding EMS drawing blood for DWI. EMSAT played a part in helping to keep

this bill from becoming law. Did this not benefit EMS personnel?

Prior to last session (2003), EMSAT polled its members, and one result of

that poll was that they wanted an EMS License Plate. It was approved during

that session. Did this benefit EMS personnel?

Sometime in the last 2 years, EMSAT began providing its members with life

insurance policies as a part of their membership. Its may not be a large

policy, but I submit to you that it is a benefit.

These are not the only examples, simply the ones that come to mind so late

in the day.

Regarding the telemarketing script: yes, we reviewed and approved the script

that they use, but not THAT script! I can assure you that the points

mentioned in the article and by Ms. Neel and others were NOT on the approved

script. I am furious and plan to find out exactly what happened and why

they are not using the approved script.

During my time as an EMSAT board member, only one member talked to me about

a problem, and I called him to help resolve his concerns. Perhaps no one

knows how to contact me, and for that I apologize. I will list my contact

information below.

To all: if you think EMSAT is useless and will never be anything but a

hindrance to Texas EMS, I sincerely encourage you to continue your efforts

against us. However, of you think EMSAT could be an asset, if only it would

change X or do Y, then I invite you to work with us- join and help us to do

the right thing. None of us purport to know what is right and we honestly

welcome constructive help and commentary. We need the input.

Thank you for tolerating my wandering thoughts.

Sincerely,

Randell Pitts

EMSAT Board Secretary

C:

H:

July 10, 2005

> EMSAT has proven valuable several times. There are over 30,000 EMS

> personnel in Texas and even at bulk rate prices it would be over $6000 to

> send postcards via snail mail.

A website costs ~$20/month. Faxing a well-developed document to every

service (EMS, Fire, Police) that explained EMSAT and pointed to a

well-written, definitive, explanatory web site with a low-pressure

online signup would cost pennies per fax (maybe even less with various

online faxing services. Word of mouth and a smaller mailing would

handle the rest. Include some promo material from various companies

and you could get the cost of mailing covered.

> Out of the 30,000 people certified or licensed in EMS how many are on this

> listserver? How many go to the conference? How many get and read the Texas

> EMS magazine or JEMS? Who is representing the folks in west Texas where

> there are capitols to several other states that are closer to them than

> Austin?

Roughly 10%.

> As usual the 20% is doing 80% of the work and 20% are sitting on their

> laurels and complaining. It also appears that all of the people complaining

> have not sat down and really investigated EMSAT or have bones to pick with

> either board members.

That would not be me. I was involved. And in the end, it wasn't

worth the $3/month EMSAT asked for.

> This is the same thing I tell people who are upset with the government. Get

> involved. Do not sit around and complain.

Agreed. Grassroots. EMSAT tried, and failed. Now it's time for them

to get out of the way, and for ALL OF US together to figure out since

EMSAT failed, what WILL work. We have a history of failed attempts -

why not act like a startup and use those failures to avoid doing the

same thing, come up with something new, and try again to succeed?

> The Mr. using your analogy, if DPSOA was not valuable to DPS officers

> then why do I get calls twice a year from DPSOA soliciting funds. Why do

> they not fund it themselves? I ask you what have you done for EMS lately?

I have never been called by DPSOA. I'd suggest that you're on some

telemarketer's list as a potential " giver " and they see dollar signs.

Maybe a ticket to the Trooper's ball? Oh, wait, Troopers don't have

balls...

<yes, it's a joke. take a breath, laugh, smile, then keep going>

> I have also worked with telemarketing firms in the past and depending on the

> contract they get paid a percentage of what they bring in or they get paid

> by the call. I can not count the number of times while working at Austin

> EMS that I went to Sprints offices to work on their workers. The

> telemarketing employees are bullied by their bosses to get the money so they

> can get bonuses and I guarantee that many times they do not follow the

> approved scripts.

And by using them with this knowledge in mind, EMSAT is tacitly

approving such work practices and telemarketing tactics. Bravo.

> EMS is loosing people left and right to nursing and other endeavors. Unless

> there is an organization like EMSAT with the support and backing of the EMS

> community nothing will ever get done.

Such as? What " nothing " isn't going to get done? And why is losing

(not loosing) people a bad thing? They're progressing up the medical

career ladder - I thought upward growth and mobility was a hallmark of

achievement?!?

> I joined EMSAT last year to benefit the EMS community not to benefit me. I

> am not on the board nor do I plan to even try for a few years until I

> complete my Masters.

Why? That's only going to qualify you to be something more than a

paramedic - and that's what you were just railing against! I'm

confused (though supportive of your personal educational growth)...

> I personally have very little to complain at EMSAT about, so to the board

> get the web site fixed and keep up the good work.

Getting a solid web site up with a clear, directed message would be a

great start... but is it too late?

Mike :/

July 11, 2005

As a matter of fact (and to lend creedence to Mike's statement), I will

offer any EMS organization or department webspace for that price. Please do

not take this as a solicitation, either. For me, that is what it takes to

break even. (And, it comes with unlimited email, list-servers, and most

other internet technology that you could think of).

Mike

_____

From: [mailto: ] On

Behalf Of Mike

Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 1:32 AM

To:

Subject: Re: EMSAT and Soliciting

> EMSAT has proven valuable several times. There are over 30,000 EMS

> personnel in Texas and even at bulk rate prices it would be over $6000 to

> send postcards via snail mail.

A website costs ~$20/month. Faxing a well-developed document to every

service (EMS, Fire, Police) that explained EMSAT and pointed to a

well-written, definitive, explanatory web site with a low-pressure

online signup would cost pennies per fax (maybe even less with various

online faxing services. Word of mouth and a smaller mailing would

handle the rest. Include some promo material from various companies

and you could get the cost of mailing covered.

> Out of the 30,000 people certified or licensed in EMS how many are on this

> listserver? How many go to the conference? How many get and read the

Texas

> EMS magazine or JEMS? Who is representing the folks in west Texas where

> there are capitols to several other states that are closer to them than

> Austin?

Roughly 10%.

> As usual the 20% is doing 80% of the work and 20% are sitting on their

> laurels and complaining. It also appears that all of the people

complaining

> have not sat down and really investigated EMSAT or have bones to pick with

> either board members.

That would not be me. I was involved. And in the end, it wasn't

worth the $3/month EMSAT asked for.

> This is the same thing I tell people who are upset with the government.

Get